WEBVTT - Episode 14: Dyslexia - Are we getting it all wrong? 0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:12.720 I've never been in a car anything like this. 0:00:13.160 --> 0:00:16.120 I mean a lot of people haven't because yeah, they're 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:20.560 not very common, especially in New Zealand, you know, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:22.079 it's going to know the right people to take you. 0:00:22.079 --> 0:00:23.240 For a spin. Yeah, I know. 0:00:28.200 --> 0:00:30.680 Before today, I don't know if I could have told 0:00:30.720 --> 0:00:34.000 you what a McLaren car even looked like. But twenty 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:37.880 three year old Michael knows these cars intimately. He buys 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.239 and sells supercars for a living. It started when he 0:00:41.360 --> 0:00:44.280 was just a little boy with a passion for cars 0:00:44.600 --> 0:00:51.040 and a goal to one day own a Lamborghini. So 0:00:51.159 --> 0:00:53.960 now when we're sitting here, do you know what's going 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:56.600 on in the engine? Do you know all the like? 0:00:57.200 --> 0:00:57.440 You know? 0:00:57.720 --> 0:00:57.960 Yeah? 0:00:58.040 --> 0:00:59.840 No, no, I know what you mean, Yeah, one hundred percent, 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:03.120 Like the ghost bamped straight straight to what's happening in 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.200 the engine and how the cars running and stuff as 0:01:05.200 --> 0:01:06.280 a sort of how I'm wired. 0:01:07.000 --> 0:01:09.920 And are you visualizing it or are you visualizing it here? 0:01:10.680 --> 0:01:10.880 Yep? 0:01:11.200 --> 0:01:13.080 You know that's a skill that not many people have. 0:01:13.160 --> 0:01:16.240 A Yeah, but I imagine when you were little most 0:01:16.240 --> 0:01:18.400 of your life you didn't know that not everyone can 0:01:18.440 --> 0:01:18.679 do that. 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:23.280 Nah, nah, it's sort of I've only recently discovered it. 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:27.080 To be honest, we're learning more and more about the 0:01:27.120 --> 0:01:31.119 strengths of dyslexic thinking. Michaels used his to become really 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:33.560 good at what he does, but if you looked at 0:01:33.600 --> 0:01:37.560 his academic record, he shouldn't really be successful at all. 0:01:37.720 --> 0:01:41.280 Michael dropped out of school at fifteen, but the experience 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:46.800 of school and the pain it caused hasn't left him. 0:01:47.080 --> 0:01:50.840 I'm diving into the complex and fascinating world of neurodiversity. 0:01:51.360 --> 0:01:54.800 I'm not an expert, but my daughter is neurodivergent and 0:01:54.840 --> 0:01:58.320 a few years ago I was diagnosed with ADHD. In 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:01.320 this series, you'll hear from expert and from many, many 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:04.680 wonderful people who experience the world in a unique way. 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:19.960 We're looking at neurodiversity from the inside, Yoder. I'm Sonia Gray, 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:23.240 and this is no such thing as normal. In this 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:27.200 episode and the next, we're taking a broader look at dyslexia. 0:02:27.960 --> 0:02:30.480 Over the last few decades, the focus has been solely 0:02:30.520 --> 0:02:34.200 on helping dyslexic kids to read and write, which is great, 0:02:34.919 --> 0:02:38.400 but so many dyslexics still feel so crap about school. 0:02:39.720 --> 0:02:42.480 What if the issue with words is just a small 0:02:42.560 --> 0:02:46.200 part of the dyslexic experience. Are we doing enough to 0:02:46.320 --> 0:02:50.920 encourage the specialist skills that so many dyslexics possess, like 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:55.720 seeing openings and opportunities and patterns where others don't. Your 0:02:55.760 --> 0:03:03.519 classic entrepreneur like Michael, do you mind if I asked 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:05.840 how much it cost your first Lamborghini. 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:06.480 Three hundred thousand? 0:03:07.840 --> 0:03:10.600 How do you get did you win lotto? I wish 0:03:11.639 --> 0:03:14.880 he didn't win lotto, And no, he wasn't helped into 0:03:14.880 --> 0:03:17.120 a supercar by super wealthy parents. 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:19.960 I bought and sold cars. I just hustled and stuff. 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:23.200 I made my own way. My first business was car valet, 0:03:23.280 --> 0:03:26.000 so cleaning cars. I did it for people with Lamborghinis. 0:03:26.600 --> 0:03:27.440 I got good at it. 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:32.080 What is it that drew you to cool cars? 0:03:32.840 --> 0:03:36.200 As long as I can remember, probably around the age 0:03:36.200 --> 0:03:38.400 of you know six, sort of a thing, you know, 0:03:38.520 --> 0:03:42.360 the little matchbox hot wheels cars, you know, I started 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:44.520 playing with them, and then as I got older, I 0:03:44.520 --> 0:03:47.080 started to mess around with lawn mowers and engines, and 0:03:47.120 --> 0:03:51.080 then go carts, tractors and what not, and then started 0:03:51.120 --> 0:03:53.320 to learn more about cars. I'd see them out on 0:03:53.360 --> 0:03:56.040 the road and recognize them. Then it started, you know, Ferraris, 0:03:56.120 --> 0:03:59.040 Lamborghinis and McLaren's and whatnot. I just love it and 0:03:59.080 --> 0:03:59.840 I can't get away. 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:04.400 From when I look and I think about Michael at 0:04:04.440 --> 0:04:07.760 school and now with that car out the front, and 0:04:07.880 --> 0:04:11.960 what he's actually doing to make his money. It's just amazing. 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:13.480 But I remember him. 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:17.279 Stuff that's Michael's mum, Jane. I actually interviewed her first 0:04:17.320 --> 0:04:20.360 for an upcoming episode on anxiety, and while I was 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:24.000 at her house, I met her youngest son, Michael, a warm, 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:27.039 charming twenty three year old with a story I felt 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:28.919 needed to be heard, you know. 0:04:28.960 --> 0:04:31.520 But still he's very, very anxious as a person, and 0:04:31.520 --> 0:04:34.360 he has these different phobias that he's dealing with. So 0:04:34.400 --> 0:04:36.440 he's still dealing with childhood stuff. 0:04:36.839 --> 0:04:41.080 The childhood stuff stems from school and never feeling good enough. 0:04:41.720 --> 0:04:44.320 Part of Michael's motivation is to prove that he does 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:50.240 have what it takes. It's a story so common for dyslexics. 0:04:51.760 --> 0:04:53.560 If you see that on my hand there, that means 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.880 success before thirty, the age of thirty, and that was 0:04:56.920 --> 0:04:59.200 there as soon as I could sort of get that tattoo. 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:02.760 That's what drove me. That was my target before thirty. 0:05:02.880 --> 0:05:03.760 That's what I wanted. 0:05:04.320 --> 0:05:06.680 Michael's showing me a small tattoo on the side of 0:05:06.720 --> 0:05:11.640 his hand which simply reads s B thirty success before thirty. 0:05:11.960 --> 0:05:15.159 For Michael, that meant getting his first Lamborghini, and he 0:05:15.200 --> 0:05:17.760 got it this year at twenty three. He bought an 0:05:17.800 --> 0:05:20.680 apartment too. This sounds like the tale of a kid 0:05:20.760 --> 0:05:24.880 who overcame his dyslexia and triumphed, but it's not really. 0:05:25.400 --> 0:05:27.719 It's about a kid who overcame a school system that 0:05:27.839 --> 0:05:31.120 brought him to his knees, and now he has something 0:05:31.160 --> 0:05:31.599 to prove. 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:37.200 You don't necessarily need school, because you know, back when 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:39.960 I was in school, I left at fourteen, fourteen, fourteen, 0:05:40.000 --> 0:05:40.440 fifteen year. 0:05:41.320 --> 0:05:42.640 You've told me a little bit about it. 0:05:42.640 --> 0:05:42.960 It was. 0:05:43.720 --> 0:05:45.840 It was a horrible experience for you in a lot 0:05:45.839 --> 0:05:46.200 of ways. 0:05:46.360 --> 0:05:48.400 Yeah, I can't threat enough a it was. It was. 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:50.520 It was like a living hell being at school for 0:05:50.600 --> 0:05:52.240 me personally, Yep, it was bad. 0:05:55.720 --> 0:06:01.080 Michael has profound auditory dyslexia, but in some he's gifted. 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:06.080 His visual spatial skills and processing speed are exceptional, but 0:06:06.160 --> 0:06:09.320 he struggles with what we call the basics. So subjects 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:11.560 like maths and English were a nightmare. 0:06:12.080 --> 0:06:15.839 I felt like the dumbest person in school, and you know, 0:06:16.440 --> 0:06:22.599 taking someone like me with dyslexia, you know, through the 0:06:22.680 --> 0:06:26.360 paces and pushing them to do the tests. And if 0:06:26.400 --> 0:06:28.240 you don't pass this test, you're going to fail, and 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:29.680 you're going to not you know, you're going to be 0:06:29.720 --> 0:06:33.239 implement homeless when you're older. Sort of a thing. It's pressure. 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:37.800 Michael has specific memories of school which still haunt him. 0:06:38.200 --> 0:06:40.479 You know, when you're in class and you have to 0:06:40.520 --> 0:06:43.760 be silent, you're doing tests and stuff, and everyone's got 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:47.359 their head down they're writing, you know, and then you 0:06:47.400 --> 0:06:50.080 hear sort of books start closing, and then people go 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:52.400 up and give the book to the teacher at the front. 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:56.000 And then I'd be on the first page, stool. I 0:06:56.000 --> 0:06:58.560 don't know what the heck I'm doing. And it was 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:03.839 the pressure from sort of the other people finishing before me. 0:07:04.839 --> 0:07:08.159 And not only did I finish last out of them all, 0:07:08.600 --> 0:07:11.360 but I was sitting there sort of feeling really stupid 0:07:11.800 --> 0:07:14.000 because everyone was looking back at me, like, oh, we're 0:07:14.040 --> 0:07:17.000 still going because this kid's on his first page. You 0:07:17.040 --> 0:07:17.520 know what I mean? 0:07:17.640 --> 0:07:18.960 Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. 0:07:23.520 --> 0:07:26.440 One day I found him under the desk in the 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:28.640 bedroom as far away from the front door as he 0:07:28.640 --> 0:07:31.440 could possibly get, and he was curled up under the desk, 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:34.920 refusing to go to school, and I could not get 0:07:35.000 --> 0:07:38.080 it out of him what had happened. And that's an 0:07:38.120 --> 0:07:42.680 example for a very dyslexic child who could not express 0:07:42.760 --> 0:07:44.840 himself to me. He did not have the words to 0:07:44.880 --> 0:07:47.480 say how he was feeling. He didn't know how to 0:07:48.000 --> 0:07:50.680 put that across to me at all. He was completely 0:07:50.720 --> 0:07:53.960 shut down. And I racked my brains to think how 0:07:54.000 --> 0:07:55.920 I was going to find out what on earth was happening. 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:58.440 I howled him, I talked to him. He wasn't going 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:01.120 to open up at all. Eventually I got a piece 0:08:01.120 --> 0:08:03.760 of paper out, and I got crayons out, and I 0:08:03.880 --> 0:08:06.320 just started doodling on the page, and I said, you 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:09.360 seem really sad, And he picked up a crayon and 0:08:09.360 --> 0:08:12.000 he started to draw, and he drew what had happened 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:14.480 in the classroom the day before, which is when the 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:17.240 teacher had actually slapped his hand down on to the desk. 0:08:17.840 --> 0:08:19.920 As he drew it, the tears welled up and the 0:08:19.920 --> 0:08:22.960 anger came out, and he was able to start expressing 0:08:22.960 --> 0:08:26.000 what had happened this morning when we were talking about it, 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:27.920 he said she threw a chair at him as well, 0:08:27.960 --> 0:08:31.000 which I actually had no idea about. That affected him 0:08:31.000 --> 0:08:35.840 profoundly and still to this day. Yeah, I just think 0:08:36.000 --> 0:08:39.200 that just goes to show the negative outcome for him 0:08:39.240 --> 0:08:42.280 at school, not being understood, not being identified, and not 0:08:42.320 --> 0:08:42.880 being helped. 0:08:43.400 --> 0:08:48.200 But you were there to say every day, you're amazing, 0:08:48.240 --> 0:08:53.079 You're wonderful. A lot of kids don't have that. Jane 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:56.640 knows a lot about dyslexia. It was her master's thesis 0:08:56.679 --> 0:09:00.040 topic and she's co authored a book about it. He 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.280 tells me about a guy she interviewed who got very 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:05.600 emotional when he told her about school. 0:09:05.880 --> 0:09:08.000 He was describing school and he said he looked at 0:09:08.040 --> 0:09:09.480 me and he said school was just a place I 0:09:09.600 --> 0:09:14.120 ate my lunch. He never did anything at all in 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:17.920 terms of his education really at school. And when he 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:22.160 talked about there being one particular teacher, he said who 0:09:22.240 --> 0:09:24.960 got me. And then he's teared up and he started 0:09:24.960 --> 0:09:28.080 to cry because that one teacher who got him made 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:31.760 all the difference to him emotionally as an adult. And 0:09:32.080 --> 0:09:35.520 that was his story of school to me. Nothing about 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.360 school achievement, but the one teacher who got him. 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:41.960 And so many say that. So many adults say that 0:09:42.520 --> 0:09:47.080 there was that one teacher that just understood them. No, 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:49.640 I'm not an expert, but I feel like some people 0:09:49.800 --> 0:09:53.000 just have it. Then the empathetic people have it. And 0:09:53.040 --> 0:09:55.760 if you don't necessarily have that doesn't matter how much 0:09:55.800 --> 0:09:59.120 training you have. I don't know. Yeah, I like that 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:03.520 comes down to the when you're dyslexic, every school day 0:10:03.600 --> 0:10:06.640 holds the potential for failure and shame in front of 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:10.920 your peers. Michael is a kind, polite, lovely person, but 0:10:10.960 --> 0:10:12.760 you can hear the anger in his voice when he 0:10:12.840 --> 0:10:15.679 has to relive the memory of school speeches. 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.640 So another living hell of mine. I guess you could 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:21.280 ask mum doing. 0:10:21.080 --> 0:10:22.400 Speeches, Yeah, tell me about that. 0:10:22.880 --> 0:10:25.480 It was just that scared the living life out of 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:27.800 me to have to stand in front of these people 0:10:28.960 --> 0:10:31.880 who I felt like, we're going to judge me for 0:10:32.040 --> 0:10:35.440 messing up one of my words, you know, you know, 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:39.520 mispronouncing something or just sounding stupid in front of a 0:10:39.920 --> 0:10:42.640 thirty kids and a teacher. You know, sometimes even more. 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:45.960 I was sort of always the quiet kid, not wanting 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:47.880 to really talk to people. But then when I got 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:51.440 into business, which I had an interest in dealing with people, 0:10:51.480 --> 0:10:57.560 dealing with clients, with selling cars, negotiating, buying, selling. It 0:10:57.640 --> 0:10:59.600 came natural to me. And now, you know, put me 0:10:59.640 --> 0:11:02.480 in front of thirty thousand people, I'll do it. I 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.120 I'd probably want to do it, but I couldn't do 0:11:05.160 --> 0:11:09.280 it back then in front of thirty kids. I believe 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:12.719 strongly that I, you know, day to day have been 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:18.280 impacted from that very thing. I carry those you know, 0:11:18.320 --> 0:11:22.240 anxiety and all those feelings because of how I felt 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:25.520 back in class. For sure, yeap, just flipping that a 0:11:25.520 --> 0:11:25.920 little bit. 0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.360 Was there a teacher or a situation or a subject 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:33.040 or anything at school that gave you that was positive? 0:11:34.559 --> 0:11:38.520 Oh? Not that I can remember, you know. 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:42.839 So there was no teacher that kind of went, Michael, 0:11:43.080 --> 0:11:46.959 you're actually you've got something. We know that teachers who 0:11:47.040 --> 0:11:51.200 take the time to understand neurodivergent kids can change their lives. 0:11:51.640 --> 0:11:54.160 And I am constantly blown away by the teachers I 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:57.680 know who go above and beyond, always looking for creative 0:11:57.720 --> 0:12:01.640 ways to help the kids who are struggling. Michael didn't 0:12:01.679 --> 0:12:01.960 have that. 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:05.200 I remember sitting in school, you know, in front at 0:12:05.240 --> 0:12:07.239 the end of the year when you're doing any exams, 0:12:07.880 --> 0:12:09.559 and I was just thinking, just get me the heck 0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:11.360 out of here. I can't do it. 0:12:11.880 --> 0:12:14.320 None of us want to fail. No kid wants to 0:12:14.720 --> 0:12:18.079 not be able to sit the exam. The system failed you. 0:12:18.360 --> 0:12:21.400 The school system completely failed you, and it's failing so 0:12:21.600 --> 0:12:22.839 many For me. 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:26.600 It created all the anxiety. You know, me being self 0:12:26.640 --> 0:12:30.880 conscious and you know learning things, and you know struggles 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:31.520 I have today. 0:12:32.120 --> 0:12:36.120 It sounds like you're super sensitive too. I am, which 0:12:36.160 --> 0:12:38.920 is a lovely quality, but it can work against you 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:40.520 because you feel everything. 0:12:40.760 --> 0:12:52.560 You feel it all. 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:55.400 Michael is thriving in a world that is so foreign 0:12:55.440 --> 0:12:59.720 to me, buying and selling supercars. This is a game 0:12:59.760 --> 0:13:02.040 with so much money on the line, you can't afford 0:13:02.080 --> 0:13:04.720 to get it wrong. And I'm curious to find out 0:13:05.000 --> 0:13:05.800 how he does it. 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:10.520 I picked them, well, I know what I'm looking at. 0:13:10.520 --> 0:13:13.040 I know what I'm buying, I know the numbers, and 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:15.080 I work my way up to make profit. 0:13:15.280 --> 0:13:17.720 So you do your research, and you look. 0:13:17.480 --> 0:13:20.720 At immense research. Absolutely, yep, because you will lose your money. 0:13:20.720 --> 0:13:23.440 You'll buy out of emotion. See I never buy even 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:26.320 the Lambeau, even though it's something I always wanted. I 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:27.880 didn't buy that car out of emotion. 0:13:28.480 --> 0:13:31.240 So you're looking you're trying to make that connection because 0:13:31.240 --> 0:13:36.440 it's all about I'm not even going to pretend, but 0:13:36.559 --> 0:13:39.320 there's But you need to know the details, don't you, 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:40.880 because you can't miss anything. 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:43.560 Well, I want I want to know the detail. 0:13:43.840 --> 0:13:44.240 Okay. 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:49.480 I'm so interested in the art of sales and negotiating 0:13:49.520 --> 0:13:52.040 and talking with people now, which I never was. 0:13:52.480 --> 0:13:56.000 When you were at school. If someone had gone, he's 0:13:56.040 --> 0:14:00.839 really into supercars, let's create something around supercas have been easier. 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:04.120 Like when you said, sonya, when you said that the 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:08.120 school system failed, Michael, I had a bit of a reaction, 0:14:09.040 --> 0:14:11.280 you know, because to actually really look at that and go, yeah, 0:14:11.400 --> 0:14:14.160 actually it really did. But if he had been offered 0:14:14.200 --> 0:14:18.120 something of interest him, if that had been an interesting environment, 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:22.040 that's where I think that you would have excelled at school. 0:14:23.600 --> 0:14:26.560 Like so many dyslexics, it's not just the reading and 0:14:26.600 --> 0:14:31.680 writing that's challenging for Michael. Maths, especially the basics, pose 0:14:31.760 --> 0:14:35.200 a whole lot of problems. In general, maths is taught 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:38.120 in a very linear way, which doesn't work well for 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:42.800 dyslexic thinkers. Michael hated maths in school, but in his 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:45.760 job it's not a problem. 0:14:45.360 --> 0:14:48.120 Like maths with me. I deal with numbers all the 0:14:48.120 --> 0:14:50.680 time because all the cars and whatnot. But that's because 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:52.480 I'm interested, and that's because I want to. 0:14:52.920 --> 0:14:54.880 So the numbers when you're dealing with cars, isn't a 0:14:54.920 --> 0:14:58.080 problem for you, no, See, isn't that crazy? 0:14:58.160 --> 0:14:58.360 Yeah? 0:14:58.400 --> 0:15:00.920 But if I'm doing it for some I don't know 0:15:00.920 --> 0:15:05.000 what you could say to just any equation. If someone oh, well, 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:07.600 what's this, I wouldn't have a clue. Well how much 0:15:07.640 --> 0:15:09.240 did you buy and sell this car for? How much 0:15:09.240 --> 0:15:12.720 profit did you make out? Blah blah blah dang easy wow. 0:15:12.920 --> 0:15:14.640 And even though it's a numbers game and I have 0:15:14.680 --> 0:15:17.920 this dyslexia and these school problems, I'm deep in that 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:19.320 it's because I have an interest in it. 0:15:20.120 --> 0:15:22.840 See people need to know this, don't they They do 0:15:23.240 --> 0:15:25.600 that's all numbers, and you just go. You could have 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:27.000 been the kid that goes, I'm never going to be 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:29.480 able to do anything with numbers, but you found something 0:15:29.480 --> 0:15:31.840 of interest. I feel like there's a whole lot of 0:15:31.880 --> 0:15:33.920 kids out there that just go, I'm bad at maths 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:37.200 and so that's and or whatever. I can't do anything 0:15:37.240 --> 0:15:39.720 with numbers, and they don't realize it was just the way. 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.400 It was talked to them buying and selling cars. Making 0:15:42.400 --> 0:15:46.920 profit is numbers. It's maths. Now that I've grown my interest, 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:50.200 I found what I like. I can do it easier 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:51.880 natural Now. 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:55.560 Yeah, that's great. But say I gave you a times 0:15:55.600 --> 0:15:58.840 table like a fast fax question. Say have I said 0:15:58.880 --> 0:16:03.040 to you, what's six times eight? Can't do it? Don't 0:16:03.040 --> 0:16:03.360 want to. 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:06.120 Give me a calculator I can other than that? No chance? 0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:07.040 Could you think about it? 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:12.120 If you tried, it'd take me quite a bit for me. 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:16.680 Give me the hardest equation supercar question you can think of. 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.680 I'll do it. Anything else, I just don't want to 0:16:19.680 --> 0:16:19.960 do it. 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.120 Yeah, and for a dyslexic or for all neurodivergent, really, 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.080 it's very hard to work at something when you don't 0:16:27.080 --> 0:16:32.120 know the why. Yeah, so maths and stuff around supercars, 0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:39.080 there's a why to that. Some in the field would 0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:43.520 call this struggle with maths dyscalculia. Others say it's just 0:16:43.600 --> 0:16:48.400 part of the dyslexic profile. Regardless, I think it's fundamental 0:16:48.480 --> 0:16:51.000 to know that the rote learning side of maths is 0:16:51.200 --> 0:16:55.360 likely to pose lifelong problems for a dyslexic learner. My 0:16:55.480 --> 0:16:58.800 daughter is a classic example of this. She couldn't do 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.440 maths at primary school and she still can't do the 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:05.320 basics very well. But now in high school there's calculators, 0:17:05.560 --> 0:17:08.960 so she can do geometry and trigonometry. Not a problem. 0:17:09.480 --> 0:17:13.080 That stuff makes sense to her, but she still loses 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:14.840 marks for not showing working. 0:17:17.520 --> 0:17:20.000 Actually, that's common for quite a few dyslexics. They will 0:17:20.040 --> 0:17:23.359 have the answer, but the working is not something that's 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:23.960 good for them. 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:29.520 That's doctor Ruth Gibbons. She's a social anthropologist and dyslexic researcher. 0:17:29.960 --> 0:17:32.920 She featured in episode nine of this podcast, and her 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:35.520 take on dyslexia is amazing. 0:17:35.960 --> 0:17:38.159 The way it's taught in some countries overseas is that 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:40.280 you just let the dyslexic come up with the answer, 0:17:40.359 --> 0:17:42.159 and then you teach them how to do the working 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:45.639 backwards from the answer, rather than building up to the answer. 0:17:46.520 --> 0:17:50.280 Wow. Yeah, do you think that happens in schools much? 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:51.520 No? 0:17:51.520 --> 0:17:54.959 No, because it's that linear thinking again, is like you 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:57.720 can only get the answer once you've done this, this is, 0:17:57.760 --> 0:18:00.200 and this dyslexic has already done all of those things 0:18:00.200 --> 0:18:02.400 and come up with the answer. Not all dyslexics, but 0:18:02.800 --> 0:18:03.840 some have that strength. 0:18:04.600 --> 0:18:07.479 What is it about showing the working and doing the steps. 0:18:07.480 --> 0:18:10.520 That is difficult, Like how do dyslexics get to the answer. 0:18:11.200 --> 0:18:13.399 It comes back to all those leading all that different 0:18:13.400 --> 0:18:16.200 pieces of information to bring it together. That's a natural 0:18:16.200 --> 0:18:18.520 way for a dyslextic to work. So when they're doing 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:22.359 something like maths, they will be bringing those things all 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.680 together to get the answer. They won't be doing it. 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:29.000 Linear, right, so that we're pulling information maybe from a 0:18:29.080 --> 0:18:34.240 past experience or just stuff that they couldn't actually write down. 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:38.560 Yeah, yeah, right, that's the natural way for them. 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:42.720 Ah, and then they get to it is wrong. It's 0:18:42.840 --> 0:18:47.120 quite extraordinary how minds work. It's like this high level thinking. 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.679 It absolutely is again not all but yeah absolutely. And 0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:53.960 when you're not taught to be dyslexic, but you're taught actually, 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:55.680 yes you've got the right answer, but no, you've got 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:58.000 the wrong answer because you didn't show all of your 0:18:58.000 --> 0:19:00.840 working in the correct way. Means that you're being told 0:19:00.920 --> 0:19:03.280 yet again that you aren't valuable, that you don't do 0:19:03.359 --> 0:19:10.440 things right, that you need to do things a particular way. 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:13.520 You know, the saying think outside of the box. That's 0:19:13.560 --> 0:19:15.719 sort of I'm not going to speak for others, that's 0:19:15.720 --> 0:19:18.840 sort of what I do. You know, people go down X, 0:19:18.960 --> 0:19:22.680 Y Z way, where I'll go complete, you know, back way. 0:19:23.040 --> 0:19:25.639 A lot of people say, well that doesn't make sense, 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:28.840 but I still get there. It's just that it's just 0:19:28.880 --> 0:19:32.320 a different way of thinking. It is hard to explain, 0:19:33.119 --> 0:19:35.399 but we just don't go down the normal route. 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:40.000 So Michael had to read a book that was really difficult. 0:19:40.359 --> 0:19:43.840 So difficult I knew that a dystexic brain tends to 0:19:44.680 --> 0:19:48.080 this sounds very simplistic, but thinking pictures. So we got 0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:51.040 the book and we've got a three paper and we 0:19:51.080 --> 0:19:55.239 sat down and explained characters, what a plot is, and 0:19:55.440 --> 0:19:57.960 put it all in picture form right through the book. 0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:00.000 It took a long time, but we read the book 0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:02.480 book on paper and. 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:04.200 All through drawing pictures. 0:20:04.440 --> 0:20:06.760 Through drawing picture Remember, we sat night after night to 0:20:06.800 --> 0:20:08.840 the end of the book. And then Michael understood the 0:20:08.840 --> 0:20:11.320 book completely. And then when he sat down to write 0:20:11.400 --> 0:20:13.680 down what the book was about, he had the whole 0:20:13.680 --> 0:20:17.320 thing down fast and clear and got excellence for it. 0:20:18.520 --> 0:20:20.080 But there was no way he was going to sit 0:20:20.119 --> 0:20:20.800 and read the book. 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:25.480 Michael has always been surrounded by books. His mum, Jane, 0:20:25.560 --> 0:20:28.800 is an academic, and he's the descendant of a very 0:20:28.800 --> 0:20:33.520 famous nineteenth century author, War of the Worlds, The Time Machine, 0:20:34.000 --> 0:20:39.960 The Country of the Blind. HG. Well's your great granddad. 0:20:40.080 --> 0:20:45.119 So he's your great great granddad. If I pulled N. 0:20:45.280 --> 0:20:45.480 HG. 0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:49.480 Wells book out and said, can you read it? Where 0:20:49.480 --> 0:20:50.240 that freak you out? 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:52.960 Yeah? 0:20:53.280 --> 0:20:55.680 I haven't read a full book in my life. If 0:20:55.680 --> 0:20:57.400 I was to read a book now, I will read 0:20:57.440 --> 0:21:00.560 the words fine and actually quite fast. But by the 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:02.320 time I'm at the end, I wouldn't know what the 0:21:02.359 --> 0:21:05.240 heck I've read, not one, but I wouldn't know what 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:07.840 the book's about. I couldn't say anything about it. It 0:21:07.840 --> 0:21:10.159 would make sense to you, guys, wouldn't make sense to me. 0:21:10.440 --> 0:21:13.000 Hand me a book about HG. Someone again, who I'm 0:21:13.000 --> 0:21:15.480 related to, I wouldn't know what I'm reading. Give me 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:20.080 a very detailed car sales agreement, which probably someone without 0:21:20.160 --> 0:21:23.679 the slexia would find it hard to fully understand what 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.639 it's saying. I know exactly what it's saying. So because 0:21:26.640 --> 0:21:28.920