Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Francisco Budkin and I'm Louis Eerie and welcome
Speaker 1: to season five of our New Zealand Hereld podcast, The
Speaker 1: Little Things. So good to have you with us.
Speaker 2: Here on The Little Things, we like to tackle a
Speaker 2: raft of issues offer from the perspective of middle age onwards.
Speaker 2: Although a lot of the information we share is useful
Speaker 2: to note at any age any gender right.
Speaker 1: Nowise absolutely, maybe even my kids get something out of
Speaker 1: this sometimes once awesome to listen, I don't I think
Speaker 1: they need it to go to sleep. One of the
Speaker 1: things we've noticed that as our children have begun to
Speaker 1: leave home, and we've watched friends kids leave home, some
Speaker 1: couples are making decisions about their futures. We probably all
Speaker 1: making decisions about their futures, but they're making the decision
Speaker 1: to perhaps leave or separate from their partners that have
Speaker 1: been with for decades and a.
Speaker 2: Lot of the time other people are surprised by it,
Speaker 2: Like friends and family are quite surprised. They still looking
Speaker 2: at them going. But I thought you guys were happy
Speaker 2: you've been together for thirty years, you know, But they've
Speaker 2: actually been thinking about it for quite a while.
Speaker 1: That's right. Yeah, And they've been making obviously making an
Speaker 1: outward go of it. So look, long term relationships aren't easy.
Speaker 1: Romantic love is hard to maintain, sexual chemistry waxes and
Speaker 1: ways until death do us part is quite a significant contract.
Speaker 2: It is. It is, but a lovely one to you know,
Speaker 2: venture into if you'd like to. Yeah, we're hearing a
Speaker 2: lot more about the cost of divorce. We're hearing a
Speaker 2: lot about single women not being as well prepared for
Speaker 2: retirement and it's worth having listened to Nadine Higgins in
Speaker 2: our podcast if you haven't listened to that one. And
Speaker 2: of course dating in middle age gets spoken about quite
Speaker 2: a lot. The median age of divorce in New Zealand
Speaker 2: was forty five point five years for women and forty
Speaker 2: eight point one for men in twenty twenty three. So
Speaker 2: how does life look for a midlife woman post divorce
Speaker 2: and how can we be support a friend going through it?
Speaker 1: So yeah, so that's what the focus is today. We
Speaker 1: thought we'd get to the bottom of divorce and dating
Speaker 1: and everything that comes in between, and is kind of
Speaker 1: a tricky one for us to cover because while I've
Speaker 1: watched friends go through it and admired them hugely, for
Speaker 1: it as well. Some of us as personal experience separation,
Speaker 1: divorce or midlife dating ourselves, and I'm not in your goodness,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure how I'd navigate it. All seems seems
Speaker 1: to work for some people, and I see them getting
Speaker 1: really you know, excited about it and maybe wonder what
Speaker 1: I'm missing out on. But you know, I can't even
Speaker 1: find a date night from fomo. Well it cross my mind,
Speaker 1: but no, I can't even find date night for my husband,
Speaker 1: and my children are still in an eaty face. So
Speaker 1: you know it's not for me right now. But we
Speaker 1: do know the perfect woman to help us out with
Speaker 1: this episode, Yes we do.
Speaker 2: I have called on my colleague, Lorna Riley. Lorna is
Speaker 2: a mainstay of the New Zealand radio scene and it's
Speaker 2: currently the day host of Coast FM and the host
Speaker 2: of travel podcast trip Notes. Listeners may have noticed a
Speaker 2: couple of name changes from Lorna over the years. Is
Speaker 2: that the politest way of putting out, It's a very
Speaker 2: slight way, thank you. She's been married twice and separated
Speaker 2: at different stages of her life and so she's here
Speaker 2: today to share her experience and wisdom from those hard times,
Speaker 2: but also Lorna's story come with a happy ending and
Speaker 2: a lot of hope for any of you out there
Speaker 2: looking for love again. Lorna, thank you so much for
Speaker 2: being with us.
Speaker 1: Welcome in.
Speaker 3: Thank you, thank you for having me. Yes, tip, do
Speaker 3: not change your name when you get married. That's an
Speaker 3: easy piece of wisdom.
Speaker 2: I can share it right off the bat.
Speaker 1: That's brilliant. Well I didn't and you didn't get married,
Speaker 1: so you didn't know.
Speaker 2: But even if I I mean, I've been with my
Speaker 2: partner for twenty two years, but even if I had
Speaker 2: got married, I was always professionally.
Speaker 3: That was my name, and so it was a bit
Speaker 3: I wasn't on air at that stage. I married my
Speaker 3: husband and I didn't change my name, but then we
Speaker 3: had a child and we had a business that linked
Speaker 3: in to that name, and I kind of thought, eh, no,
Speaker 3: I'll change it. And then you know, when you split,
Speaker 3: you don't want to necessarily keep that person's name. But
Speaker 3: I did, but I did professionally. And then when I
Speaker 3: got married again, my second husband wasn't very happy about
Speaker 3: the first husband's name being there, so I had to
Speaker 3: change my name again. I should have just gone back
Speaker 3: to my maide name, but I didn't like a fool.
Speaker 1: So there you go.
Speaker 3: There's my wisdom.
Speaker 2: Well, I know what the way we solve that problem
Speaker 2: with our kids is we put both of our surnames,
Speaker 2: like all the kids of Radkin Akins. They're not hyphenated
Speaker 2: rodkinsistent middle name. You got two kins, yeah, Rod can Akin.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah yeah. So so that we go. There's just
Speaker 2: a little solution for you out there if you wondering
Speaker 2: how that impacts pure laziness.
Speaker 1: I've got no professional reason to do it. And also
Speaker 1: I'm an a in my husband's a w I just
Speaker 1: couldn't go all the way.
Speaker 3: And you know what, now, I have trouble with past
Speaker 3: my passports, different my driver's license, and when people book
Speaker 3: travel for me, it's never in the right name.
Speaker 1: And so these are all things you think about to
Speaker 1: write off the bat.
Speaker 2: Okay, Lorna, Ye, you've been married twice engaged for a
Speaker 2: third time. Congratulations, lovely story. Is there a difference to
Speaker 2: becoming single when you're older or younger?
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, oh yeah, absolutely, And it's probably the things
Speaker 3: you might expect.
Speaker 1: I think.
Speaker 3: I think when you're younger, maybe you're a little more
Speaker 3: hasty to become single, you kind of go, oh, here's
Speaker 3: a bit of a problem. But you know, plenty more
Speaker 3: fish in the sea. And I think as you get
Speaker 3: older you realize that actually no relationship is perfect, that
Speaker 3: it needs working on. You understand that when a relationship fails,
Speaker 3: two people have failed at that relationship, not one person.
Speaker 3: So I think you're a lot more circumspect. And also,
Speaker 3: you know, there's the practicalities too, being single in your fifties.
Speaker 3: The thought of having to be naked in front of
Speaker 3: a new person again is terrifying, absolutely terrifying. And there's
Speaker 3: all these social stigma of being single later on as well.
Speaker 3: You know, when you're young and it's great, you've got
Speaker 3: lots of single friends and you can go out and
Speaker 3: you later on you find everyone's kind of paired up
Speaker 3: and there aren't plenty more fish in the sea, not
Speaker 3: necessarily ones you want to catch.
Speaker 1: Hatch. I can see what you mean. I mean the
Speaker 1: friends I have who have separated a divorce for any
Speaker 1: number of reasons. You know, either it's they've just been
Speaker 1: in a really unsatisfactory marriage for a long time, or
Speaker 1: there has been an actual catalyst in terms of you know,
Speaker 1: somebody meeting somebody else or something like that. It's I
Speaker 1: don't know about what you think, but I feel like
Speaker 1: maybe the guys meet people more quickly after the divorce
Speaker 1: and the women don't.
Speaker 3: Would that be I don't know that I could talk
Speaker 3: to that really, because I've only got kind of got
Speaker 3: my own experience to go on. But both my ex
Speaker 3: husband's got it sounds so bad, both my ex husband's station.
Speaker 2: Now, you shouldn't say that. It doesn't sound bad at all.
Speaker 2: It's a life. It's a life well lived, Lorna Well, yeah.
Speaker 3: And it's not exactly a secret. But no, both my
Speaker 3: ex husbands were single for quite a long time. In fact,
Speaker 3: one of them still single and the other one took
Speaker 3: a long time to find another partner. So yeah, I
Speaker 3: don't know. I think if there is infidelity, like you
Speaker 3: alluded to, I think that can quite often be on
Speaker 3: the male side. But they don't necessarily want the end
Speaker 3: of the marriage or the relationship. They just sort of get.
Speaker 1: Exactly Yes, that's true. We've got some statistics about who
Speaker 1: tends to initiate a divorce, and I think sometimes men
Speaker 1: will stay, but they won't actually initiate this.
Speaker 3: They want all the lovely things that the comfortable, long
Speaker 3: standing relationship provides, but they just also want a bit
Speaker 3: of excitement elsewhere.
Speaker 2: So it's nearly two thirds of divorces initiated by women.
Speaker 2: Ye does that surprise you?
Speaker 3: No, it actually really doesn't, because and I think that
Speaker 3: would be increasing. I think women these days they're not
Speaker 3: ready to just settle. They're not ready to be invisible.
Speaker 3: They're not ready to be treated second best.
Speaker 2: And I wonder too, whether more of them are working,
Speaker 2: they've got more independent life. They sort of see that
Speaker 2: there is a possibility that they can actually do it.
Speaker 3: You know.
Speaker 2: The practicality is, you know, it's manageable.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 3: And I think we have great support networks as well
Speaker 3: as women. Men flounder I have seen after separation because
Speaker 3: they don't have as strong a support network. You know,
Speaker 3: you might have your old mate who takes you out
Speaker 3: for a bern, but generally, you know, women are much
Speaker 3: more supportive of each other when it comes to this
Speaker 3: kind of thing.
Speaker 2: You mentioned before. You know, it definitely is harder divorcing
Speaker 2: sort of in your fifties and when you're older in things.
Speaker 2: It's a term I hate. They call it great divorce. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't know why. It just it
Speaker 2: feels like, well, I I don't know why it's.
Speaker 1: Doing the very speed but silver divorce. I think they're
Speaker 1: trying to shut it up. Either way, I don't it's
Speaker 1: not an aster.
Speaker 2: I don't like it. But it has been compared a
Speaker 2: little bit to widowhood because you've possibly been with someone
Speaker 2: for decades. You know that you've shared a long life
Speaker 2: regardless of how it ends, and that can be a
Speaker 2: massive change.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, absolutely. I remember when my first marriage broke up,
Speaker 3: we saw a relationship counselor, even though we knew we
Speaker 3: were breaking up, because she said, you will always have
Speaker 3: a relationship because you have children together. And I think
Speaker 3: that was instrumental in the fact that we are still
Speaker 3: very good friends today, Like we have joint birthday parties
Speaker 3: for the kids. He comes for Christmas dinner with his partner.
Speaker 3: You know, it's he is one of my best friends still.
Speaker 3: But I don't think people always see it that way. Unfortunately,
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 2: Going to ask you about the therapy because I think,
Speaker 2: as you say, surely it's good to try and say
Speaker 2: what you want to say and get some closure, you know,
Speaker 2: both both parties, to sort of to have some time
Speaker 2: to really think about it and understand the other person's
Speaker 2: perspective of the you know what I mean, And it's
Speaker 2: very hard to do that on your own. Sometimes it
Speaker 2: does help to have someone else who is asking questions
Speaker 2: and sort of pointing things out.
Speaker 3: Absolutely. Now, this was a long time ago. I was
Speaker 3: thirty five when my first marriage broke up and we
Speaker 3: had two young kids. And my real regret about that
Speaker 3: time as I didn't push harder for counseling prior to
Speaker 3: it getting to split stage. We did this uncoupling counseling,
Speaker 3: but I do wish we'd done it before. My husband
Speaker 3: at the time was not keen. He turned out in
Speaker 3: hindsight that he was actually severely depressed, but no one
Speaker 3: had picked up on that, and that was affecting a
Speaker 3: whole lot of things, and he just the last thing
Speaker 3: he wanted to do was go and talk to somebody else.
Speaker 3: But looking back in hindsight, wished we'd gone and done
Speaker 3: that because I think possibly we could have salvaged things
Speaker 3: in our case.
Speaker 1: Wow, gosh, that's really reflective. At the end of my
Speaker 1: breast cancer journey, we had some marriage counseling because we,
Speaker 1: of course quite naturally on quite separate page. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: and we found it really healing, but gosh, you know
Speaker 1: it does there are some things that hit hard when
Speaker 1: you're asked to really.
Speaker 3: It's very confronting, it is, and I'm not sure as
Speaker 3: a younger person that I would have had the thick
Speaker 3: enough skin to be able to take some of what
Speaker 3: comes up at that sort of counseling, But I do
Speaker 3: thoroughly recommend it if anyone's in that boat right now
Speaker 3: where they're thinking things aren't going too well, that actually,
Speaker 3: couple's counseling is a very very healthy and as.
Speaker 1: You say, it might be the last thing you actually
Speaker 1: feel like doing, so it just might be one of
Speaker 1: those things that you go, we're just going to do this,
Speaker 1: and it's not cheap, and you've got to find it
Speaker 1: right one and you've both got to be willing to
Speaker 1: talk when you get there. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what's the best response to someone when they tell
Speaker 2: you that they're separating the divorce Because a lot of
Speaker 2: the time, when it happens to a couple who may
Speaker 2: have been together for three decades, they've raised their kids,
Speaker 2: they've realized their living separate lives and it kind of
Speaker 2: been working. Maybe towards the separation for a while, but
Speaker 2: it hasn't been obvious to a lot of people around them.
Speaker 2: And you know, everyone has their own perspective on separation
Speaker 2: and divorce and things like that. So you know, what
Speaker 2: kind of responses did you get and what's the helpful response?
Speaker 3: You not to say, oh, no, but you two were
Speaker 3: the perfect couple. We all wanted to be like, that's
Speaker 3: not helpful, and we got that a lot with my
Speaker 3: first marriage, also not helpful with my second marriage. You
Speaker 3: kind of went, oh, yeah, knew this was gonna happen,
Speaker 3: you know, any relationship. No, you don't, And you don't
Speaker 3: run down the prospective ex partner either, because there's every
Speaker 3: chance that they may in fact get back together again
Speaker 3: and they may not forget what you've said about their partner.
Speaker 3: I think all you can kind of do and not
Speaker 3: even asking about why or how, because often people don't
Speaker 3: know exactly why. I remember this counselor telling us that
Speaker 3: there was one relationship she had that had split up,
Speaker 3: and the catalyst was he left his socks on the floor,
Speaker 3: you know, and that was it. She just suddenly exploded,
Speaker 3: that's it. I can't be married to you anymore. And
Speaker 3: he was baffled, like, how did this happen? But of
Speaker 3: course you multitudo thought beside. But so you know, it's
Speaker 3: actually quite hard to explain to people sometimes why. But
Speaker 3: I think all you can say to someone who has
Speaker 3: told you that they're thinking of separating or whatever, is
Speaker 3: what can I do to support you? Because that was
Speaker 3: one of the hardest things. I think is we were
Speaker 3: friends with a lot of other couples, and I had
Speaker 3: feared that people would take sides, which some did, but
Speaker 3: that kind of naturally fell along the friendship lines. Some
Speaker 3: very good friends of both of ours ended up sort
Speaker 3: of coming to my side, even though it wasn't a battle,
Speaker 3: but just that. But some people just stayed away all together.
Speaker 3: It was like it was a disease that possibly they
Speaker 3: might catch, or maybe it was too awkward when we
Speaker 3: always did things as couples for there's to suddenly be
Speaker 3: a singleton in there, so they just stopped kind of
Speaker 3: hanging out. So it was really interesting.
Speaker 2: I know someone who recently separated and it's all been
Speaker 2: very amicable, and you know, they've done a lot of
Speaker 2: therapy together and a bit like you still have a
Speaker 2: very strong family life with their children.
Speaker 1: And things.
Speaker 2: But you know, the guy just does not want to
Speaker 2: meet people, and all his friends are trying to set
Speaker 2: him up, and he's just and no one's listening, and
Speaker 2: he's like, I'm not ready. Please don't put me in
Speaker 2: this awkward position where every time I come for dinner
Speaker 2: or I come to a party, you've invited someone from me,
Speaker 2: from me, I'm a fine.
Speaker 3: That is not fair for the women that are being
Speaker 3: or tried to be paired with him as well, because
Speaker 3: when someone's not ready for a relationship, Yeah, it's it
Speaker 3: can be very hurtful and very harmful.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well he's obviously very eligible, perhaps, but you know
Speaker 1: it doesn't it.
Speaker 3: People just want to see their friends happy, don't they,
Speaker 3: And they think they're.
Speaker 2: Doing the right thing, but they're just not listening.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but surely there's.
Speaker 1: A recovery period, like any trauma in your life. Where
Speaker 1: are you?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. I think there's a grieving process.
Speaker 3: I suppose some people might go off the deep end
Speaker 3: and you know, go a little bit silly for a while,
Speaker 3: depending on, you know, what the circumstances of the breakup where.
Speaker 1: But I think.
Speaker 3: I mean, if you're just looking for a bit of fun, sure,
Speaker 3: but if you're actually looking for another relationship, yes, I
Speaker 3: think you need time to let the dust settle, to
Speaker 3: let the grieving, because even if you're the instigator, it's
Speaker 3: still a very painful process. If you've got children involved,
Speaker 3: you know, you want to make sure you're not kind
Speaker 3: of like right, meet your new daddy five minutes later.
Speaker 3: You've really got a tread very careful.
Speaker 1: I don't know anyone who's entered the separation process lightly
Speaker 1: or you know, and they've kind of they potentially would
Speaker 1: have done it earlier, but they've kind of thought through
Speaker 1: the pain and difficulty in all the stages really daunting.
Speaker 3: I mean even just all the tasks you have to
Speaker 3: do a daunting to even become separated, you know, unmeshing
Speaker 3: your finances, and there's all the familial stuff, not just
Speaker 3: the children, but the in laws and the and the
Speaker 3: cousins and everyone else that sort of involved and entwined,
Speaker 3: and a lot of people put it off, I think,
Speaker 3: will push it to one side because it just feels
Speaker 3: like too much hard work to even contemplate separating. But
Speaker 3: I'm here to say that there is a better life
Speaker 3: on the other side.
Speaker 2: So what do you wish you'd noan before separating or
Speaker 2: getting a divorce.
Speaker 3: Both my separations I instigated, and I felt great guilt
Speaker 3: about that, particularly the first time, and so I didn't
Speaker 3: necessarily follow all my lawyer's advice, and I was probably
Speaker 3: over generous in things I agreed to. And the second
Speaker 3: time I was overly generous again, but that's just because
Speaker 3: I wanted it done. I just was I couldn't be
Speaker 3: bothered dragging it through the courts and everything. So I
Speaker 3: think women tend to be affected quite negatively financially from
Speaker 3: a separation. I don't think any of us are smart
Speaker 3: enough to, you know, have secret bank accounts or but
Speaker 3: you know, we've also had those years where we haven't
Speaker 3: necessarily been earning, that's right. And you know, when I
Speaker 3: separated the first time, my children were three and five,
Speaker 3: so getting another full time job was not that easy,
Speaker 3: you know, when you had had little ones to look after.
Speaker 3: So yeah, that is a big, a big consideration for women,
Speaker 3: is the financial aspect that I probably didn't think through.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I guess, so how do you know that?
Speaker 1: So with all those external pressures and knowing it's going
Speaker 1: to be hard, how can you comment on how you
Speaker 1: think that somebody would know that this is actually we've
Speaker 1: at the end of the road.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think if you're just for me, it was
Speaker 3: about being suffocated, feeling caged a little bit. I met
Speaker 3: my first husband when I was twenty two. I was
Speaker 3: just starting off in my career. He was doing really well.
Speaker 3: We worked in the same industry, which possibly wasn't a
Speaker 3: great thing. My career kind of took off and his
Speaker 3: had stalled a little bit. I think that created some tension.
Speaker 3: There was a seven year age gap between us, and
Speaker 3: I think that came into play as well. And I
Speaker 3: think he wanted to live this sort of life of
Speaker 3: like we were retired already and I was in my
Speaker 3: mid thirties, and I was like, this is my prime,
Speaker 3: this is my whoo. So yeah, that was the main feeling.
Speaker 3: And with the second year, that's completely different kettle of fish.
Speaker 3: But again, I just wanted to live my life by myself.
Speaker 3: I was quite happy to be by myself. There weren't
Speaker 3: other people involved. It wasn't like that. I just wanted
Speaker 3: to be free to be me. You know, that's kind
Speaker 3: of you know, but new age. But I just really
Speaker 3: wanted that opportunity.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and if you can't do that within a marriage
Speaker 1: if that's not because you know, I do have a
Speaker 1: husband who doesn't really going out. He doesn't ask you
Speaker 1: where I'm going really or or and Francisca and I
Speaker 1: have been free to roam around the country and do
Speaker 1: our runs and everything. We've always if I if he
Speaker 1: was at any point like well what are you doing?
Speaker 1: Or you've spent more or yeah, I would make me
Speaker 1: stop and think for sure.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, there's that trust, and there's that you know,
Speaker 3: I wanted to travel. That is a big thing for me,
Speaker 3: is traveling, and neither of my husbands have wanted to
Speaker 3: travel at all, which is a big issue. Yeah, because
Speaker 3: you know, I'd prefer to travel with my partner if
Speaker 3: I can. I'm quite happy to do other trips with
Speaker 3: friends all by myself, but you know, one or two
Speaker 3: would be quite nice.
Speaker 2: You're listening to the little things, and I guess on
Speaker 2: the podcast today as Coast Day host Lorna Ridley talking
Speaker 2: divorce and dating that we'll be back shortly after this break.
Speaker 2: Welcome back now, Lorna. What's the emotional toll you've mentioned
Speaker 2: sort of the financial You know that it can be
Speaker 2: quite difficult for women financially when they get divorced. What
Speaker 2: about the emotional toll of separation and divorce.
Speaker 3: Oh, I don't think that can be underestimated. It is massive.
Speaker 3: And again, facing that at thirty five was very different
Speaker 3: to facing it at fifty three, which are the two
Speaker 3: ages I was. When I with my separations. When I
Speaker 3: was thirty five, the emotional toll revolved a lot around
Speaker 3: the children because we agreed to have fifty to fifty
Speaker 3: custody sort of one week about, and it was pretty
Speaker 3: good to start off with. We rented an apartment and
Speaker 3: so we did the week about, not the children, so
Speaker 3: it was quite sort of stable for them in the
Speaker 3: family home. But eventually we settled financially and I bought
Speaker 3: my own place. And both times with my separations, I'm
Speaker 3: the one that moved out of the family home because
Speaker 3: I was the one that instigated and I felt I
Speaker 3: should And yet that was terribly emotional as well. I
Speaker 3: remember my children said, Dad says that this is our
Speaker 3: real home because this is, you know, where we were
Speaker 3: born and things, and I just remember being gutted by
Speaker 3: that driving past the family home when I knew my
Speaker 3: kids were in there. It was their week with their dad,
Speaker 3: and I was going to visit a friend and I
Speaker 3: would go past every time and just go, My babies
Speaker 3: are in there, and I just want hug them and
Speaker 3: I can't, so very very difficult.
Speaker 2: Is it just time? Does time make that manageable?
Speaker 3: And does make it manageable? And my ex and I
Speaker 3: our relationship got better as well, so we would actually
Speaker 3: kind of go or let's all go to the park,
Speaker 3: or let's all go to a basketball game, so we
Speaker 3: could actually see the kids together and hang out and
Speaker 3: think it was good for them as well. But yeah,
Speaker 3: that was that was a big emotional thing.
Speaker 2: Quite a few friends who have separated have really struggled
Speaker 2: at first. The kids have been old enough to kind of,
Speaker 2: you know, spend a week or five days with one
Speaker 2: parent and then swap over, and initially they don't know
Speaker 2: what to do with themselves, and they you know, feel like,
Speaker 2: you know, they feel berieved that their kids aren't there,
Speaker 2: and it's doesn't take too.
Speaker 4: Long, no, And then when you're mixing, you know, I'm
Speaker 4: going week, your life looks really good, to be fair, Yes,
Speaker 4: that that was definitely the case, that that it does
Speaker 4: give you certain freedoms as well.
Speaker 3: You think you know, I would love a break from
Speaker 3: my children. Will you get that? But be careful what
Speaker 3: you wish for. Yeah, I was going to say that
Speaker 3: a break every now and again is quite different to
Speaker 3: every second week, and yeah, yeah, quite quite difficult. The
Speaker 3: second time I separated, obviously a lot older, I wouldn't
Speaker 3: say why, is a bit a lot older. That had
Speaker 3: a different emotional toll. My daughter was pregnant with my granddaughter,
Speaker 3: and that was one of the reasons that we split,
Speaker 3: because we were living with my ex, who was horrified
Speaker 3: that a baby was going to be born into this house,
Speaker 3: no matter that he had known my daughter for fifteen years.
Speaker 3: So I sort of uped and left with everybody. And
Speaker 3: so I felt a terrible weight on my shoulders because
Speaker 3: I felt like I was having to be not only
Speaker 3: strong for my children, my daughter and my younger daughter.
Speaker 3: My son by this stage was you know, living his
Speaker 3: own life and on his own two feet, but for
Speaker 3: my granddaughter as well. And so that was a that
Speaker 3: was very emotional. And then of course I got health
Speaker 3: issues smack bang right on the brink of separation. I
Speaker 3: ended up in hospital with a tubo ovarian absess, and
Speaker 3: when I recovered from that after six weeks, I got
Speaker 3: hit with a second breast cancer diagnosis and then had
Speaker 3: to go through chemo and radiotherapy and all those other things.
Speaker 3: And I remember thinking at the time, really shouldn't have
Speaker 3: separated because I could do with, you know, the support
Speaker 3: right now. But actually, yeah, no regrets at all. And
Speaker 3: you can't just be with somebody because they can help
Speaker 3: you through, you know, a terrible time. It's just that
Speaker 3: I was trying to be strong for my children and
Speaker 3: then I felt like I was letting them down by
Speaker 3: being ill myself. But yeah, I'm not a great believer
Speaker 3: in regrets, and like I say, I have that one
Speaker 3: regret about the first separation, but I don't have too many.
Speaker 3: It's an emotional toll, but it's survivable and it's thrivable. Wow,
Speaker 3: I don't even know if that's it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's the word.
Speaker 3: I want to make it.
Speaker 1: Please make it a word.
Speaker 3: And yeah, but I'm not just saying, you know, you
Speaker 3: can get through this, but actually you can thrive on
Speaker 3: the other side. And I reckon my fifties have been
Speaker 3: my best decade.
Speaker 2: Oh you're flying, But as you say, it does take
Speaker 2: a little while. And I think even when people know
Speaker 2: they need to go. Yes, you need to almost in
Speaker 2: the back of your mind, just know it is going
Speaker 2: to take a little time to sort out all those things,
Speaker 2: to sort out the finances and to work out what
Speaker 2: you're going to do with property, and to get children settled,
Speaker 2: and to find your own rhythm. I've my unscientific research
Speaker 2: on this, or unscientific survey that I've done from everybody
Speaker 2: I know is it's taken them about two years. Oh yeah,
Speaker 2: it takes about two years, and then they suddenly go, Actually,
Speaker 2: everything is good and we're sort of sorted, and I'm
Speaker 2: moving forward and I'm not thinking about it every day
Speaker 2: and life is good.
Speaker 3: It's exactly right. Sometimes you can't see that light out
Speaker 3: at the end of the tunnel. But with everything tough
Speaker 3: that I've been through, I have the mantra this too
Speaker 3: shell pass. It's engraved on the ring that I wear
Speaker 3: on my finger every day, and my daughter actually has
Speaker 3: a tattoo of it as well. So just reminding yourself
Speaker 3: that this is temporary, that it will get better, and
Speaker 3: as you say, two years and the grand scheme of
Speaker 3: things is not very long. At the time, it seems
Speaker 3: like forever when you're living it. Going through it, you know,
Speaker 3: when it's groundhog Day and nothing seems to be getting
Speaker 3: any better, but you do need to remember that it
Speaker 3: is temporary and that there is light on the other side.
Speaker 1: Yeah. There's a doctor where I work at the university
Speaker 1: who has put little sayings on her door, and one
Speaker 1: of them is, if you're going through, how just keep
Speaker 1: getting on going? Yeah, yeah, I don't know where that
Speaker 1: comes from. It, Yeah, I often think about that when
Speaker 1: because you particularly the same with the cancer diagnosis. There
Speaker 1: is no other way through except for through, yeah, well
Speaker 1: hopefully through.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, yeah, Well that's exactly right. Yeah, that's all
Speaker 3: you can do.
Speaker 1: And it all adds to this kind of incredible resilience
Speaker 1: as well, I guess.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think if you have to dwell on
Speaker 3: the positives and you have to keep reminding yourself why
Speaker 3: you've done this, whether it's for a better life for
Speaker 3: your children, whether it's a better life for you, whether
Speaker 3: it's just so you can you live with yourself, whether
Speaker 3: you want to achieve more than you could have achieved
Speaker 3: in that relationship, or maybe it's just a relationship that's
Speaker 3: run its course. It doesn't even need to be a
Speaker 3: bad relationship, but maybe it's just you know, sometimes there
Speaker 3: are relationships for the times, and you know, we go
Speaker 3: through such life changes, particularly women. I think where you know,
Speaker 3: where the the the Bonnie to their Clyde for a while,
Speaker 3: and then children come along, and you know, everything's all
Speaker 3: about the kids. And then the kids start leaving home.
Speaker 3: They don't, you know, to become teenagers that don't want
Speaker 3: their mums around anymore, and things change there. Our careers,
Speaker 3: you know, have so many different cycles if we choose
Speaker 3: to become mothers, and so I think that you actually
Speaker 3: end up quite a different person from the one that.
Speaker 1: Married, was standing at the altar, that was standing at
Speaker 1: the altars again.
Speaker 3: And I don't think that's a good or a bad thing.
Speaker 3: I just think it's a thing just life. Yeah, it
Speaker 3: is life. And and you know what they say, you know,
Speaker 3: some people can grow together, and that's true, and some
Speaker 3: people don't. You know, one day, these great divorces that
Speaker 3: are happening. I was shocked at the rate of over
Speaker 3: sixty fives. I thought, good lord, we've just sucks, you know,
Speaker 3: married for forty years and something. But you know, I
Speaker 3: think that's probably right. Stop working, kids have left home,
Speaker 3: don't see the grandchildren that much. You sit and look
Speaker 3: at each other and go, what have we actually gone
Speaker 3: in common? You know, maybe it's nothing.
Speaker 1: I also don't like the term a failed marriage, because
Speaker 1: you can have you can you know, marriages do end,
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that they weren't successful at some peple.
Speaker 3: Well, that's right, that's exactly right. Like I consider my
Speaker 3: marriages were both successful until they weren't. And you know
Speaker 3: that's that's nobody's fault. It's that. Yeah, that's the way
Speaker 3: it is.
Speaker 2: Okay, let's get dating. Yeah, tell me you're now engaged
Speaker 2: to Mike. How did st of you meet.
Speaker 3: On a dating app? On hinge? So I tried a
Speaker 3: couple of dating apps, and as did he. Someone to
Speaker 3: sort of tell the story in parallel, so we both
Speaker 3: became single around about the same time. He'd been married
Speaker 3: for twenty five years and has three children, as I
Speaker 3: have three children. And we both kind of met our
Speaker 3: first partner on the dating apps around about the same time,
Speaker 3: and those relationships lasted about the same length, which is
Speaker 3: about six months. And we both fold for those people
Speaker 3: pretty heavily, I think, as you tend to do with
Speaker 3: a first relationship. But they were people, both of them
Speaker 3: that weren't ready for relationships. They shouldn't have put themselves
Speaker 3: out there as being ready for relationships because they weren't.
Speaker 3: And you also learn about being really honest on the apps.
Speaker 3: Like I just after a while, after a lot of
Speaker 3: sort of time wasters and people I didn't have much
Speaker 3: in common with that, I only wanted to date people
Speaker 3: who had children, grown up children, whatever, I didn't care,
Speaker 3: but they had to have had children because otherwise they
Speaker 3: wouldn't understand my situation of living with two of my
Speaker 3: daughters and a granddaughter as well. And I've got a
Speaker 3: couple of nasty messages from men going you, you're just
Speaker 3: being so picky and you could be missing out on
Speaker 3: really great people.
Speaker 1: Did you go Joe like you?
Speaker 2: But no?
Speaker 3: And I said, you're probably right. There'll be some wonderful
Speaker 3: men out there without kids. And I'm sure it works
Speaker 3: for some people, but for me, that was a boundary.
Speaker 3: You know, never be afraid to put out your own boundaries.
Speaker 3: There is a fucking of one great bit of advice.
Speaker 3: I discovered this group after I met Mike, but it
Speaker 3: is absolutely brilliant and he passes all of the test.
Speaker 3: It's called the Burning Haystack method. So it's a Facebook
Speaker 3: group and it's run by an academic in the States. She'shilarious.
Speaker 3: She's single, she's trying to date. It's not going well,
Speaker 3: but she is all about the applied rhetoric, and so
Speaker 3: her theory is, how do you find a needle in
Speaker 3: a haystack? You burn the haystack down. So you just
Speaker 3: are swiping, swipe and swiping anything that is any red flag,
Speaker 3: anything that comes up that breaks one of the group rules,
Speaker 3: you just get rid of them because eventually those things
Speaker 3: are going to be problematic. And it's it's actually brilliant
Speaker 3: to see it in action. You see some things that
Speaker 3: seem okay and seem innocuous and harmless on a dating app,
Speaker 3: and then she analyzes it and you're like, oh, I see,
Speaker 3: I see what to look out for now, and it's
Speaker 3: it's really good. And like I said, I've gone back
Speaker 3: and looked over my all, Mike's and my correspondence to
Speaker 3: start off with, and he passes completely.
Speaker 1: Is that for any age? Can I? Oh?
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely towards older. But I've got some of the
Speaker 3: young girls here at work onto it, not having much
Speaker 3: fun on the dating apps. You know, if he said
Speaker 3: is he loves cuddles. Yeah, he likes the sex before.
Speaker 2: The cuddles and then but it's like lovely. But it's
Speaker 2: like it's like real estate language, right, you know, there's
Speaker 2: when when you sell a house you read between the
Speaker 2: lines what they're trying to tell you. Oh, it doesn't
Speaker 2: get any sun, but it has this. So it's kind
Speaker 2: of about just how fast.
Speaker 1: I would leave anybody who's holding a fish.
Speaker 3: But there are lots of yes, yes, fish and anything
Speaker 3: that is. And they talk about the men, the men
Speaker 3: that they set up their dating profiles to attract other
Speaker 3: men by the looks of things, because it's all like
Speaker 3: a rugby or you know, boxing matches or sports things
Speaker 3: or and don't get me started on the I don't know.
Speaker 3: Some men just send photos of the mid riff.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't quite know what that's about. Unsolicited picks. I
Speaker 3: have written about this before in the Herald. I thought
Speaker 3: I might be too old to be getting some of those.
Speaker 3: Yeah I did, Yeah, I did so. I mean they're
Speaker 3: not great looking at the best of times, but if
Speaker 3: you're going to take a photo with a very unflattering angle,
Speaker 3: send it to.
Speaker 2: Me too much. I mean, at least did that give
Speaker 2: you a bit of a laugh at least? All was that?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, But I.
Speaker 3: Also thought, in what universe would that work for you?
Speaker 3: In what universe are you going to attract or anybody
Speaker 3: sending that?
Speaker 2: Did you think Hinde was the best for middle age dating?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought it was quite good because there's a
Speaker 3: little bit of a character to it. It was less
Speaker 3: about the sex, which I think that Tinder to me
Speaker 3: implies casual hookups. So I was very clear about the
Speaker 3: fact I didn't want any casual hookups at all. It
Speaker 3: didn't stop people trying, but at least I had I
Speaker 3: had stated it, and you can choose different prompts and
Speaker 3: interesting things. And I think I liked Mikes because he
Speaker 3: had He said he loved the ocean. There was a
Speaker 3: photo of his silly, little fluffy, stubby dog running on
Speaker 3: the beach, and I thought that's pretty cute, and I
Speaker 3: knew he had the kids. He found I swiped I
Speaker 3: don't know left right, whatever it is on him swipe right,
Speaker 3: and when he saw my profile come up, one of
Speaker 3: his workers came into his office and he panicked and
Speaker 3: he shut down the thing and he lost my Oh
Speaker 3: he lost my profile, but he had read my series
Speaker 3: on dating over fifty in the Herald. That's why he
Speaker 3: actually joined the dating apps in the first place, so
Speaker 3: he couldn't believe it's so durable. Later I had popped
Speaker 3: up and then he accidentally deleted me. So he sends
Speaker 3: an email to my boss, owing, you know, slightly storkery behavior,
Speaker 3: but blah blah blah blah blah. Anyway, he said, I've
Speaker 3: lost you on Hinge, but this is what I would
Speaker 3: have written if I had been on Hinge. And he
Speaker 3: wrote with this big long thing and said he was
Speaker 3: going to a concert the next night, James Taylor. And
Speaker 3: I said, all lucky. You've never seen James Taylor. Wouldn't
Speaker 3: mind seeing him.
Speaker 1: And we went.
Speaker 3: Actually got a spare ticket, supposed to take my sister,
Speaker 3: but you know, too bad to her if you want
Speaker 3: to come. And I thought, you know, a concert's kind
Speaker 3: of safe. There's security guards around, you don't even have
Speaker 3: to talk much of its disastrous And I said, okay,
Speaker 3: so we'll meet outside Spark Arena. You know what I
Speaker 3: look like? How do I know what you look like?
Speaker 3: And he goes, oh, it's easy. I'm six foot two,
Speaker 3: bold and built like a brick shit house, every woman's dream.
Speaker 3: And I thought he's funny. I like that, And that
Speaker 3: was that was that bad? That was that we were Yeah,
Speaker 3: we our second date, we went to a gin festival
Speaker 3: and we got asked by these two young girls how
Speaker 3: long we've been married. When they found out it was
Speaker 3: our second date, they asked to be bridesmaids. We've reconnected
Speaker 3: with them now we're engaged. They actually, you're very keen
Speaker 3: to be our bridesmaids. Quite funny.
Speaker 2: So yeah, you mentioned, sorry, you mentioned it was important
Speaker 2: to if you're going to go on these sites to
Speaker 2: be ready for a relationship. How do you actually know
Speaker 2: if you are ready to meet someone else?
Speaker 3: Well, I think you have to dip your toe in
Speaker 3: the water. And I think I think it's okay to
Speaker 3: have something casual as well. Like when I'm talking about
Speaker 3: a relationship, I'm talking about a committed, monogamous relationship. But
Speaker 3: I do think it's okay to go out for a
Speaker 3: coffee with somebody, maybe see them again in a couple
Speaker 3: of weeks, but maybe see some other people as well,
Speaker 3: you know, and see if you're not going to decide
Speaker 3: from well maybe I did, but from one meeting that
Speaker 3: this is going, that this is your person, but.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you can take small steps just to get back
Speaker 2: into data.
Speaker 3: Another piece of advice i'd give if you're doing the
Speaker 3: dating thing after doing dinners and drinks and whatever, coffee
Speaker 3: on a Sunday morning. I was going to ask you
Speaker 3: on a Sunday morning because then if it's going well,
Speaker 3: you can seg into lunch. If it's not, you've got
Speaker 3: a lunch date and you've got to go. No alcohol
Speaker 3: involved means no, you know your sensors are going to
Speaker 3: be spidery sharp, And yeah, I think it's for me.
Speaker 3: It worked out really well because I would know within
Speaker 3: a half an hour and then it's sort of going,
Speaker 3: it was nice to meet you, and blah blah, and
Speaker 3: off we'd go.
Speaker 1: That's really useful advice. That was my quest. Next question
Speaker 1: is going to be what do you suggest for that
Speaker 1: first meeting people.
Speaker 3: They're quite often going and they meet for cocktails or something,
Speaker 3: or they'll meet for dinner. And there's no way if
Speaker 3: you know almost immediately that this is not going to
Speaker 3: be a person for you, that you want to sit
Speaker 3: through a dinner that awkward thing of who pays? Because
Speaker 3: I always want to go halves. I don't want anyone
Speaker 3: to coffee. I don't care. You can buy me a coffee,
Speaker 3: that's fine, but I don't want to go for dinner
Speaker 3: and drinks and have you pay and then you know,
Speaker 3: walk me to my car.
Speaker 2: No thanks, So how do you do start dealing with
Speaker 2: that when people want to walk you to your car?
Speaker 1: Owner?
Speaker 3: Well, actually, after this concert, mike' said let me give
Speaker 3: you a lift home because I had ubered in so
Speaker 3: I could have a Dutch carriage glass of wine or two.
Speaker 3: And he lived in completely the opposite direction. I'm over
Speaker 3: on the shore and it was like, is it a.
Speaker 1: White panel van?
Speaker 3: And he said no, and I said okay, then well
Speaker 3: and then we got to his car and it was
Speaker 3: a he doesn't have it anymore. It was a Porsche.
Speaker 3: And I just cracked up and said, you were such
Speaker 3: a middle aged cliche. It was bloody uncomfortable. But he
Speaker 3: gave me a ride home and was very polite. There
Speaker 3: was no He was just the thing I probably loved
Speaker 3: about him most from his profile that I should have
Speaker 3: mentioned before. He's the youngest of five four older sisters.
Speaker 1: Oh brilliant.
Speaker 3: So they have women yet you go lee? He has
Speaker 3: been brought up by a whole host dwell and he
Speaker 3: respects women and he gets women.
Speaker 1: But you know what comes through to me, he sounds authentic. Oh.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, absolutely the most supportive man I've ever met. He's
Speaker 3: a solutions guy. He can't bear a situation that he
Speaker 3: can't fix, So that can be annoying because sometimes you
Speaker 3: know you don't necessarily want it fixed. But I love
Speaker 3: that he just wants to solve everything for everybody.
Speaker 2: Lorna feel free to answer this question as much or
Speaker 2: as little as you like. But obviously the second cancer diagnosis.
Speaker 2: Was this all taking place kind of around the time
Speaker 2: that you met Mike.
Speaker 3: Oh no, no, that it all happened well before. So
Speaker 3: when I met Mike, it was behind me. I'd had
Speaker 3: my ovaries and filopian tubes out because I had the
Speaker 3: brack of two gene. I had just two sort of
Speaker 3: small scars, so I was through the treatment part. But
Speaker 3: when one of the first things I told him when
Speaker 3: we met was that I'd gone through breast cancer twice,
Speaker 3: that I had the gene, and that some stage soon
Speaker 3: my own collogist was leaning on me that I needed
Speaker 3: to have the double mistick to me, so I said
Speaker 3: of that, you know, freaks you out a little bit,
Speaker 3: that's fine, but just putting out there now, and he
Speaker 3: was absolutely fine with it. His sisters had breast cancer
Speaker 3: and his mother's had breast cancer as well, so neither
Speaker 3: of them to a serious degree. But he he got it,
Speaker 3: and you know it doesn't bother him. He's just been
Speaker 3: there every step of the way with me as I
Speaker 3: go through the whole decision now because one of my
Speaker 3: breast reconstructions didn't work, so now I go do I
Speaker 3: stay at Uniboo my whole life And I keep asking
Speaker 3: him what he thinks, and he's just like, whatever makes
Speaker 3: you happy. I love you.
Speaker 1: The way you are. The way you are, wasn't that gorgeous? Yeah?
Speaker 1: What a story of hope.
Speaker 3: But it's a story of hope. They are out there,
Speaker 3: They are out there. He was a he was in
Speaker 3: a very unhappy marriage for a very long time. He's
Speaker 3: such a great guy. He's stuck in there. But eventually
Speaker 3: it became too much, and then there he was. I
Speaker 3: didn't think it was possible to meet someone so fabulous,
Speaker 3: you know, in their fifties, who wasn't cynical, Who wasn't
Speaker 3: you know.
Speaker 1: It's funny the apps, isn't it? Because I haven't really
Speaker 1: looked at them other than looking at my own kids'
Speaker 1: profiles on them. And you know, my big push with
Speaker 1: him is you better be yourself because sooner related you're
Speaker 1: going to meet people and you're going to find out.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and helean hear people though, Yeah, the photos are
Speaker 3: old or they're blurry, or they've got filters on.
Speaker 1: Just what they think is going to happen when you
Speaker 1: meet I don't know.
Speaker 3: Oh and some of the guys I met, they were
Speaker 3: talking about women lying about their ages. One guy I
Speaker 3: met up with a woman and she said she was
Speaker 3: forty five and she turned out to be sixty five.
Speaker 2: Like that'sbstential a year or two off.
Speaker 1: Just me more.
Speaker 3: I think she thought she looked pretty vat As soon
Speaker 3: as she walked in, he was like, Okay, this is
Speaker 3: the mum with her daughter like that. You never point you.
Speaker 1: Never like saw that who was coming and took an exit.
Speaker 3: No, No, I would never do that. I would never
Speaker 3: do that. But and there wasn't any really painful coffee dates.
Speaker 3: They're all quite pleasant, you know. I met one guy
Speaker 3: who was absolutely fascinating. He traveled the world. Both of
Speaker 3: us said afterwards, that was nice, but we won't go
Speaker 3: any further. But but it was just really interesting to
Speaker 3: meet them. I mean, I'm a curious kind of person anyway.
Speaker 3: I would imagine if you're a little bit more introverted,
Speaker 3: that would actually be quite difficult to get up the
Speaker 3: nerve to go and talk to someone knew and then
Speaker 3: to kind of go, well, I'm never seeing them again.
Speaker 3: But for me, I didn't mind that.
Speaker 2: So if somebody is a little bit apprehensive about dating
Speaker 2: after a separation or divorce, maybe middle age, you've given
Speaker 2: us some great advice anything else, I'd say.
Speaker 3: To them, just that, probably repeating myself, but that a
Speaker 3: you are enough. I mean, I was actually pretty happy
Speaker 3: on my own. I was on my own for three
Speaker 3: years before I met Mike, and I was pretty happy
Speaker 3: in that space. But I'm happier now. I am happier now.
Speaker 3: My dad always says to me, he's been married to
Speaker 3: mum for sixty five years. He always says, we were
Speaker 3: never meant to be alone. And I think there's something
Speaker 3: in that. There's no shame in being by yourself, and
Speaker 3: some people very happy by themselves, and I think that's
Speaker 3: because they don't want to compromise. But I think it's
Speaker 3: possible to be in a relationship to not have to
Speaker 3: compromise on who you are, And we're going to make
Speaker 3: compromises to a certain degree, but not on who you
Speaker 3: are and have a wonderful, wonderful life together because you know,
Speaker 3: it's the living and hopefully it's going to be a
Speaker 3: long one.
Speaker 1: Definitely. I mean, and you said at the very beginning,
Speaker 1: you know that sounds terrible or whatever. I couldn't think
Speaker 1: of a better guest to have had to have had
Speaker 1: somebody who's been through it at thirty five with two
Speaker 1: young kids to tell us that experience. We would have
Speaker 1: had to have two different women. Then wouldn't have been
Speaker 1: It would have been annoying all the stories open to us.
Speaker 1: And then to have the over fifty experience and this
Speaker 1: dating experience up in midlife. I think that's been fantastic
Speaker 1: to learn about.
Speaker 2: So when's the wedding?
Speaker 1: Ah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, this is a work in progress because we both
Speaker 3: our youngest children are still at school and we live
Speaker 3: in completely different parts of Auckland, so we live together
Speaker 3: sort of halftime at the moment. But I don't want
Speaker 3: to get married till we can live together full time
Speaker 3: and get our own place. So we're probably looking about
Speaker 3: eighteen months away, and.
Speaker 2: That's always good to have something to look forward to.
Speaker 3: It always good to have something. Well, we did get
Speaker 3: engaged after six months, so I feel like, you know,
Speaker 3: it's okay to wait a little while.
Speaker 2: Oh Laurna, thank you so much for sharing. I really
Speaker 2: really appreciate it. So lovely to see you. Thank you
Speaker 2: so much.
Speaker 3: Thank you.
Speaker 2: How fabulous is Lorna.
Speaker 1: I just think he's an inspiration, honestly, so perky, beautiful,
Speaker 1: just happy, and for what she's been through, it's just
Speaker 1: quite incredible.
Speaker 2: But I think that that's one of the reasons why
Speaker 2: we wanted to talk to her, because yes, it's difficult,
Speaker 2: Yes it takes an emotional toll, Yes it can have
Speaker 2: a financial toll on you as well. But if you know,
Speaker 2: if you're making the decision for the right reason, then
Speaker 2: there is life after separation and divorce. And that's what
Speaker 2: we wanted to get across today, didn't we.
Speaker 1: You know? God?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I loved her talking about dating and I
Speaker 2: think that Sunday the Sunday Coffee is the best advice
Speaker 2: that she gave. One of the good pieces of advice
Speaker 2: that she gave us. It's a really good sort of
Speaker 2: way to if you're a little bit hesitant or tentative,
Speaker 2: or you're struggling to kind of work out how to
Speaker 2: meet someone. That's a really nice approach.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, and if they're like, oh no, no, Sunday
Speaker 1: coffee Saturday night, well it.
Speaker 2: Might be one of those red flags. What was it,
Speaker 2: the burning haystack approach? You're more research on that, Yeah,
Speaker 2: something on that which I can't talk about.
Speaker 1: Dating all day long. I found it fascinating, but I
Speaker 1: guess you know. The takeaway is, like you say, you know,
Speaker 1: of course it's daunting. You don't leave a marriage easily,
Speaker 1: and but there's a pathway through, and a well trod
Speaker 1: pathway through actually, and dating as almost says, it doesn't
Speaker 1: need to be for the next relationship.
Speaker 2: It can be just meeting people, meeting interesting people, going
Speaker 2: out and having that coffee or maybe a meal, and
Speaker 2: it might go somewhere, it might not, but if you
Speaker 2: take that expectation off it.
Speaker 1: My friend had a saying for that person that you
Speaker 1: see straight after a serious relationship was called the greasy pancake.
Speaker 1: What it basically means they soap up all the crap
Speaker 1: from the last because when you put the first pancake
Speaker 1: in and you're not gonna eat it, you throw out.
Speaker 1: It's terrible, but it kind of makes sense.
Speaker 2: I've never heard that.
Speaker 1: Oh really, no, I'm sure there's a theory.
Speaker 2: About the greasy, but I just thought it was a rebound.
Speaker 1: A crazy pancake.
Speaker 2: Oh, I love it. No, lots of great advice there
Speaker 2: from Lorna. Hey, he had a joyful week. Anything joyful
Speaker 2: happening in your week this week? And then good and positive?
Speaker 1: Look, you know sometimes work can be you know, works
Speaker 1: work right, it's there for your nine to five kind
Speaker 1: of thing. I did something slightly different. I had to
Speaker 1: attend an expo over a weekend. God, I haven't done
Speaker 1: that for a really long time, and I didn't really
Speaker 1: wasn't filled with excitement about it. But I got to
Speaker 1: be around babies and toddler's again for a while and
Speaker 1: pregnant woman and I got a lot for it. And
Speaker 1: I also had to work because we can work in
Speaker 1: silos at the university sometimes and so I had to
Speaker 1: work alongside my colleagues that I never really see, and
Speaker 1: I got to know them and I felt like I
Speaker 1: was actually part of the department, so there would be
Speaker 1: my takeaway. I got something actually out of my my
Speaker 1: normal job.
Speaker 2: That's good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, which I mean it's not that it doesn't,
Speaker 1: but not every day, right, So we're outside of my
Speaker 1: comfort zone and enjoyed it. Good about you, Francesca.
Speaker 2: Well, this week I thought I would try microdosing joy,
Speaker 2: you know, so like just adding little tiny snacks, little
Speaker 2: joy snacks into my day.
Speaker 1: With you.
Speaker 2: It was just hard work and the week kind.
Speaker 1: Of went to shit.
Speaker 2: And the heap hump broke and that needs to be replaced,
Speaker 2: a car broke that needs to be fixed, a blind broke,
Speaker 2: my son mister his flight back from university that cost
Speaker 2: another three hundred dollars to get him home, even whether
Speaker 2: we really needed to come home or not. And so
Speaker 2: actually it just became really hard work trying to microdose joy,
Speaker 2: and I thought I'll give it a waste. For a week,
Speaker 2: I did wonder whether maybe I should have been microdosing psychedelics,
Speaker 2: but I couldn't get my hands on any. So I
Speaker 2: just I've just I've done an Oliver Berkman and I've
Speaker 2: just gone I'm just going to solve problem after I'm
Speaker 2: just gonna accept the problem and tackle each as it comes,
Speaker 2: and next week we'll look for some more joy.
Speaker 1: Oh bless you look. Sometimes it is a little bit.
Speaker 2: You just have weeks like that, don't you. I'm sure
Speaker 2: our listeners will will relate to that. Thanks for joining
Speaker 2: us on our new Zealand Herald podcast series, The Little Things.
Speaker 2: We hope you share this podcast with the women in
Speaker 2: your life so that we, you know, all know there's
Speaker 2: a little bit of hope out there, just in case
Speaker 2: you get really fed up with your husband and those socks.
Speaker 1: And those socks. Yeah. You can follow this podcast on
Speaker 1: iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and for more
Speaker 1: episodes from us on other topics, head to zid herold
Speaker 1: dot co dot
Speaker 2: Nz and we'll catch you next time on The Little Things.