WEBVTT - Lorna Riley on divorce and dating 0:00:00.280 --> 0:00:03.040 Hi, I'm Francisco Budkin and I'm Louis Eerie and welcome 0:00:03.040 --> 0:00:05.800 to season five of our New Zealand Hereld podcast, The 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:07.560 Little Things. So good to have you with us. 0:00:08.000 --> 0:00:09.799 Here on The Little Things, we like to tackle a 0:00:09.920 --> 0:00:13.680 raft of issues offer from the perspective of middle age onwards. 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:16.160 Although a lot of the information we share is useful 0:00:16.160 --> 0:00:18.760 to note at any age any gender right. 0:00:18.600 --> 0:00:21.040 Nowise absolutely, maybe even my kids get something out of 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:25.040 this sometimes once awesome to listen, I don't I think 0:00:25.040 --> 0:00:28.400 they need it to go to sleep. One of the 0:00:28.400 --> 0:00:30.840 things we've noticed that as our children have begun to 0:00:30.920 --> 0:00:33.400 leave home, and we've watched friends kids leave home, some 0:00:33.479 --> 0:00:36.640 couples are making decisions about their futures. We probably all 0:00:36.640 --> 0:00:39.599 making decisions about their futures, but they're making the decision 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:43.280 to perhaps leave or separate from their partners that have 0:00:43.400 --> 0:00:44.800 been with for decades and a. 0:00:44.760 --> 0:00:46.640 Lot of the time other people are surprised by it, 0:00:46.640 --> 0:00:48.599 Like friends and family are quite surprised. They still looking 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:50.520 at them going. But I thought you guys were happy 0:00:50.520 --> 0:00:53.520 you've been together for thirty years, you know, But they've 0:00:53.520 --> 0:00:55.560 actually been thinking about it for quite a while. 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:58.960 That's right. Yeah, And they've been making obviously making an 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:02.600 outward go of it. So look, long term relationships aren't easy. 0:01:02.680 --> 0:01:06.800 Romantic love is hard to maintain, sexual chemistry waxes and 0:01:06.800 --> 0:01:10.919 ways until death do us part is quite a significant contract. 0:01:10.600 --> 0:01:13.880 It is. It is, but a lovely one to you know, 0:01:14.040 --> 0:01:16.800 venture into if you'd like to. Yeah, we're hearing a 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:18.760 lot more about the cost of divorce. We're hearing a 0:01:18.760 --> 0:01:20.880 lot about single women not being as well prepared for 0:01:20.920 --> 0:01:25.600 retirement and it's worth having listened to Nadine Higgins in 0:01:26.080 --> 0:01:28.440 our podcast if you haven't listened to that one. And 0:01:28.480 --> 0:01:31.160 of course dating in middle age gets spoken about quite 0:01:31.160 --> 0:01:34.639 a lot. The median age of divorce in New Zealand 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:36.880 was forty five point five years for women and forty 0:01:36.920 --> 0:01:39.479 eight point one for men in twenty twenty three. So 0:01:39.560 --> 0:01:43.679 how does life look for a midlife woman post divorce 0:01:43.840 --> 0:01:46.680 and how can we be support a friend going through it? 0:01:47.400 --> 0:01:49.640 So yeah, so that's what the focus is today. We 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:51.680 thought we'd get to the bottom of divorce and dating 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.200 and everything that comes in between, and is kind of 0:01:54.240 --> 0:01:56.080 a tricky one for us to cover because while I've 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:58.880 watched friends go through it and admired them hugely, for 0:01:58.960 --> 0:02:01.680 it as well. Some of us as personal experience separation, 0:02:01.800 --> 0:02:05.160 divorce or midlife dating ourselves, and I'm not in your goodness, 0:02:05.480 --> 0:02:08.280 I'm not sure how I'd navigate it. All seems seems 0:02:08.280 --> 0:02:10.520 to work for some people, and I see them getting 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.560 really you know, excited about it and maybe wonder what 0:02:13.560 --> 0:02:15.600 I'm missing out on. But you know, I can't even 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:20.000 find a date night from fomo. Well it cross my mind, 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:24.400 but no, I can't even find date night for my husband, 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:26.320 and my children are still in an eaty face. So 0:02:27.040 --> 0:02:29.440 you know it's not for me right now. But we 0:02:29.480 --> 0:02:31.400 do know the perfect woman to help us out with 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:33.239 this episode, Yes we do. 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:35.640 I have called on my colleague, Lorna Riley. Lorna is 0:02:35.639 --> 0:02:37.720 a mainstay of the New Zealand radio scene and it's 0:02:37.760 --> 0:02:40.040 currently the day host of Coast FM and the host 0:02:40.120 --> 0:02:43.720 of travel podcast trip Notes. Listeners may have noticed a 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:48.000 couple of name changes from Lorna over the years. Is 0:02:48.040 --> 0:02:49.680 that the politest way of putting out, It's a very 0:02:49.720 --> 0:02:52.600 slight way, thank you. She's been married twice and separated 0:02:52.639 --> 0:02:54.600 at different stages of her life and so she's here 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:57.959 today to share her experience and wisdom from those hard times, 0:02:58.080 --> 0:03:00.959 but also Lorna's story come with a happy ending and 0:03:01.000 --> 0:03:02.640 a lot of hope for any of you out there 0:03:02.680 --> 0:03:05.800 looking for love again. Lorna, thank you so much for 0:03:05.840 --> 0:03:06.280 being with us. 0:03:06.320 --> 0:03:06.720 Welcome in. 0:03:06.919 --> 0:03:09.360 Thank you, thank you for having me. Yes, tip, do 0:03:09.440 --> 0:03:12.280 not change your name when you get married. That's an 0:03:12.280 --> 0:03:13.240 easy piece of wisdom. 0:03:13.240 --> 0:03:14.799 I can share it right off the bat. 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.239 That's brilliant. Well I didn't and you didn't get married, 0:03:18.280 --> 0:03:19.480 so you didn't know. 0:03:19.560 --> 0:03:21.200 But even if I I mean, I've been with my 0:03:21.240 --> 0:03:24.320 partner for twenty two years, but even if I had 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:27.000 got married, I was always professionally. 0:03:26.520 --> 0:03:28.079 That was my name, and so it was a bit 0:03:28.400 --> 0:03:30.959 I wasn't on air at that stage. I married my 0:03:31.040 --> 0:03:32.960 husband and I didn't change my name, but then we 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:36.080 had a child and we had a business that linked 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:39.480 in to that name, and I kind of thought, eh, no, 0:03:40.080 --> 0:03:42.960 I'll change it. And then you know, when you split, 0:03:43.080 --> 0:03:46.480 you don't want to necessarily keep that person's name. But 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:50.160 I did, but I did professionally. And then when I 0:03:50.160 --> 0:03:53.240 got married again, my second husband wasn't very happy about 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:56.920 the first husband's name being there, so I had to 0:03:57.040 --> 0:03:59.600 change my name again. I should have just gone back 0:03:59.640 --> 0:04:01.960 to my maide name, but I didn't like a fool. 0:04:02.000 --> 0:04:02.400 So there you go. 0:04:02.480 --> 0:04:03.160 There's my wisdom. 0:04:04.520 --> 0:04:06.320 Well, I know what the way we solve that problem 0:04:06.320 --> 0:04:08.280 with our kids is we put both of our surnames, 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:10.800 like all the kids of Radkin Akins. They're not hyphenated 0:04:10.880 --> 0:04:14.600 rodkinsistent middle name. You got two kins, yeah, Rod can Akin. 0:04:15.040 --> 0:04:17.839 Oh yeah yeah. So so that we go. There's just 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:19.400 a little solution for you out there if you wondering 0:04:20.400 --> 0:04:22.000 how that impacts pure laziness. 0:04:22.120 --> 0:04:24.119 I've got no professional reason to do it. And also 0:04:24.160 --> 0:04:26.279 I'm an a in my husband's a w I just 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:27.160 couldn't go all the way. 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:31.679 And you know what, now, I have trouble with past 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:35.160 my passports, different my driver's license, and when people book 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:37.040 travel for me, it's never in the right name. 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:39.400 And so these are all things you think about to 0:04:39.520 --> 0:04:40.400 write off the bat. 0:04:42.200 --> 0:04:46.680 Okay, Lorna, Ye, you've been married twice engaged for a 0:04:46.720 --> 0:04:52.120 third time. Congratulations, lovely story. Is there a difference to 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:54.279 becoming single when you're older or younger? 0:04:54.880 --> 0:04:58.839 Oh yeah, oh yeah, absolutely, And it's probably the things 0:04:58.880 --> 0:04:59.720 you might expect. 0:05:01.160 --> 0:05:01.640 I think. 0:05:02.600 --> 0:05:05.280 I think when you're younger, maybe you're a little more 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.520 hasty to become single, you kind of go, oh, here's 0:05:08.520 --> 0:05:10.400 a bit of a problem. But you know, plenty more 0:05:10.520 --> 0:05:16.000 fish in the sea. And I think as you get 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:20.240 older you realize that actually no relationship is perfect, that 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:24.120 it needs working on. You understand that when a relationship fails, 0:05:24.320 --> 0:05:26.840 two people have failed at that relationship, not one person. 0:05:27.520 --> 0:05:29.960 So I think you're a lot more circumspect. And also, 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:34.360 you know, there's the practicalities too, being single in your fifties. 0:05:35.000 --> 0:05:37.560 The thought of having to be naked in front of 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:43.640 a new person again is terrifying, absolutely terrifying. And there's 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:46.960 all these social stigma of being single later on as well. 0:05:46.960 --> 0:05:48.520 You know, when you're young and it's great, you've got 0:05:48.560 --> 0:05:50.839 lots of single friends and you can go out and 0:05:50.920 --> 0:05:53.920 you later on you find everyone's kind of paired up 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:56.560 and there aren't plenty more fish in the sea, not 0:05:56.600 --> 0:05:58.640 necessarily ones you want to catch. 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:05.040 Hatch. I can see what you mean. I mean the 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:07.960 friends I have who have separated a divorce for any 0:06:08.040 --> 0:06:11.120 number of reasons. You know, either it's they've just been 0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:13.560 in a really unsatisfactory marriage for a long time, or 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:17.040 there has been an actual catalyst in terms of you know, 0:06:17.480 --> 0:06:21.400 somebody meeting somebody else or something like that. It's I 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:23.120 don't know about what you think, but I feel like 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:26.880 maybe the guys meet people more quickly after the divorce 0:06:26.880 --> 0:06:27.680 and the women don't. 0:06:27.760 --> 0:06:32.599 Would that be I don't know that I could talk 0:06:32.640 --> 0:06:34.840 to that really, because I've only got kind of got 0:06:34.880 --> 0:06:38.640 my own experience to go on. But both my ex 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:42.719 husband's got it sounds so bad, both my ex husband's station. 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:45.760 Now, you shouldn't say that. It doesn't sound bad at all. 0:06:46.360 --> 0:06:49.719 It's a life. It's a life well lived, Lorna Well, yeah. 0:06:49.560 --> 0:06:52.080 And it's not exactly a secret. But no, both my 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:55.520 ex husbands were single for quite a long time. In fact, 0:06:55.560 --> 0:06:58.240 one of them still single and the other one took 0:06:58.480 --> 0:07:01.279 a long time to find another partner. So yeah, I 0:07:01.320 --> 0:07:05.080 don't know. I think if there is infidelity, like you 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.479 alluded to, I think that can quite often be on 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:10.480 the male side. But they don't necessarily want the end 0:07:10.680 --> 0:07:13.720 of the marriage or the relationship. They just sort of get. 0:07:14.000 --> 0:07:18.520 Exactly Yes, that's true. We've got some statistics about who 0:07:18.600 --> 0:07:23.400 tends to initiate a divorce, and I think sometimes men 0:07:23.480 --> 0:07:25.720 will stay, but they won't actually initiate this. 0:07:26.040 --> 0:07:28.640 They want all the lovely things that the comfortable, long 0:07:28.680 --> 0:07:31.560 standing relationship provides, but they just also want a bit 0:07:31.600 --> 0:07:32.680 of excitement elsewhere. 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.680 So it's nearly two thirds of divorces initiated by women. 0:07:35.840 --> 0:07:36.760 Ye does that surprise you? 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:42.000 No, it actually really doesn't, because and I think that 0:07:42.040 --> 0:07:46.000 would be increasing. I think women these days they're not 0:07:46.040 --> 0:07:48.200 ready to just settle. They're not ready to be invisible. 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:51.640 They're not ready to be treated second best. 0:07:52.320 --> 0:07:54.520 And I wonder too, whether more of them are working, 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:57.360 they've got more independent life. They sort of see that 0:07:57.400 --> 0:07:59.480 there is a possibility that they can actually do it. 0:08:00.040 --> 0:08:00.200 You know. 0:08:00.200 --> 0:08:02.840 The practicality is, you know, it's manageable. 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:03.120 Yep. 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:06.080 And I think we have great support networks as well 0:08:06.280 --> 0:08:12.480 as women. Men flounder I have seen after separation because 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:16.000 they don't have as strong a support network. You know, 0:08:16.240 --> 0:08:18.200 you might have your old mate who takes you out 0:08:18.240 --> 0:08:22.360 for a bern, but generally, you know, women are much 0:08:22.400 --> 0:08:24.320 more supportive of each other when it comes to this 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:25.000 kind of thing. 0:08:25.320 --> 0:08:28.080 You mentioned before. You know, it definitely is harder divorcing 0:08:28.160 --> 0:08:30.600 sort of in your fifties and when you're older in things. 0:08:30.920 --> 0:08:33.680 It's a term I hate. They call it great divorce. Yeah, 0:08:33.840 --> 0:08:35.480 I don't know. I don't know why. It just it 0:08:35.480 --> 0:08:37.840 feels like, well, I I don't know why it's. 0:08:37.760 --> 0:08:40.000 Doing the very speed but silver divorce. I think they're 0:08:40.000 --> 0:08:42.480 trying to shut it up. Either way, I don't it's 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:43.120 not an aster. 0:08:43.120 --> 0:08:45.640 I don't like it. But it has been compared a 0:08:45.640 --> 0:08:48.600 little bit to widowhood because you've possibly been with someone 0:08:48.679 --> 0:08:51.360 for decades. You know that you've shared a long life 0:08:51.360 --> 0:08:54.440 regardless of how it ends, and that can be a 0:08:54.480 --> 0:08:55.360 massive change. 0:08:55.480 --> 0:08:59.160 Oh yeah, absolutely. I remember when my first marriage broke up, 0:08:59.200 --> 0:09:02.280 we saw a relationship counselor, even though we knew we 0:09:02.280 --> 0:09:05.400 were breaking up, because she said, you will always have 0:09:05.440 --> 0:09:08.840 a relationship because you have children together. And I think 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:11.400 that was instrumental in the fact that we are still 0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:14.680 very good friends today, Like we have joint birthday parties 0:09:14.679 --> 0:09:17.600 for the kids. He comes for Christmas dinner with his partner. 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:21.240 You know, it's he is one of my best friends still. 0:09:22.760 --> 0:09:26.280 But I don't think people always see it that way. Unfortunately, 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:26.720 I was. 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:28.760 Going to ask you about the therapy because I think, 0:09:28.880 --> 0:09:32.480 as you say, surely it's good to try and say 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:35.160 what you want to say and get some closure, you know, 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:38.720 both both parties, to sort of to have some time 0:09:38.760 --> 0:09:40.800 to really think about it and understand the other person's 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:42.839 perspective of the you know what I mean, And it's 0:09:42.920 --> 0:09:44.440 very hard to do that on your own. Sometimes it 0:09:44.480 --> 0:09:47.160 does help to have someone else who is asking questions 0:09:47.160 --> 0:09:48.199 and sort of pointing things out. 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:50.200 Absolutely. Now, this was a long time ago. I was 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:52.240 thirty five when my first marriage broke up and we 0:09:52.240 --> 0:09:55.920 had two young kids. And my real regret about that 0:09:56.040 --> 0:10:00.599 time as I didn't push harder for counseling prior to 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:06.239 it getting to split stage. We did this uncoupling counseling, 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:09.280 but I do wish we'd done it before. My husband 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.440 at the time was not keen. He turned out in 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:16.640 hindsight that he was actually severely depressed, but no one 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:19.679 had picked up on that, and that was affecting a 0:10:19.679 --> 0:10:21.560 whole lot of things, and he just the last thing 0:10:21.600 --> 0:10:23.360 he wanted to do was go and talk to somebody else. 0:10:23.600 --> 0:10:26.000 But looking back in hindsight, wished we'd gone and done 0:10:26.040 --> 0:10:30.280 that because I think possibly we could have salvaged things 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:30.959 in our case. 0:10:31.320 --> 0:10:36.120 Wow, gosh, that's really reflective. At the end of my 0:10:36.520 --> 0:10:39.520 breast cancer journey, we had some marriage counseling because we, 0:10:39.960 --> 0:10:45.000 of course quite naturally on quite separate page. Oh yeah, 0:10:43.920 --> 0:10:48.800 and we found it really healing, but gosh, you know 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:51.200 it does there are some things that hit hard when 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:52.160 you're asked to really. 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:56.840 It's very confronting, it is, and I'm not sure as 0:10:56.880 --> 0:10:59.080 a younger person that I would have had the thick 0:10:59.160 --> 0:11:02.280 enough skin to be able to take some of what 0:11:02.360 --> 0:11:06.200 comes up at that sort of counseling, But I do 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:08.520 thoroughly recommend it if anyone's in that boat right now 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:10.760 where they're thinking things aren't going too well, that actually, 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:16.000 couple's counseling is a very very healthy and as. 0:11:15.840 --> 0:11:17.560 You say, it might be the last thing you actually 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:19.280 feel like doing, so it just might be one of 0:11:19.280 --> 0:11:21.839 those things that you go, we're just going to do this, 0:11:22.320 --> 0:11:24.160 and it's not cheap, and you've got to find it 0:11:24.240 --> 0:11:27.360 right one and you've both got to be willing to 0:11:27.720 --> 0:11:28.840 talk when you get there. Yeah. 0:11:29.240 --> 0:11:33.720 Yeah, what's the best response to someone when they tell 0:11:33.760 --> 0:11:35.839 you that they're separating the divorce Because a lot of 0:11:35.880 --> 0:11:37.920 the time, when it happens to a couple who may 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.559 have been together for three decades, they've raised their kids, 0:11:40.600 --> 0:11:42.560 they've realized their living separate lives and it kind of 0:11:42.559 --> 0:11:44.319 been working. Maybe towards the separation for a while, but 0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:46.400 it hasn't been obvious to a lot of people around them. 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:49.960 And you know, everyone has their own perspective on separation 0:11:50.080 --> 0:11:53.880 and divorce and things like that. So you know, what 0:11:54.000 --> 0:11:58.040 kind of responses did you get and what's the helpful response? 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:03.120 You not to say, oh, no, but you two were 0:12:03.160 --> 0:12:06.520 the perfect couple. We all wanted to be like, that's 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:09.520 not helpful, and we got that a lot with my 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:13.360 first marriage, also not helpful with my second marriage. You 0:12:13.480 --> 0:12:16.520 kind of went, oh, yeah, knew this was gonna happen, 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:21.400 you know, any relationship. No, you don't, And you don't 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:26.040 run down the prospective ex partner either, because there's every 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:28.319 chance that they may in fact get back together again 0:12:28.360 --> 0:12:31.040 and they may not forget what you've said about their partner. 0:12:31.200 --> 0:12:33.520 I think all you can kind of do and not 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:36.959 even asking about why or how, because often people don't 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:41.880 know exactly why. I remember this counselor telling us that 0:12:42.360 --> 0:12:45.640 there was one relationship she had that had split up, 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:49.480 and the catalyst was he left his socks on the floor, 0:12:50.480 --> 0:12:53.439 you know, and that was it. She just suddenly exploded, 0:12:53.520 --> 0:12:55.720 that's it. I can't be married to you anymore. And 0:12:55.760 --> 0:12:59.480 he was baffled, like, how did this happen? But of 0:12:59.520 --> 0:13:06.040 course you multitudo thought beside. But so you know, it's 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:08.920 actually quite hard to explain to people sometimes why. But 0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:10.800 I think all you can say to someone who has 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.079 told you that they're thinking of separating or whatever, is 0:13:14.320 --> 0:13:16.640 what can I do to support you? Because that was 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:20.320 one of the hardest things. I think is we were 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:23.800 friends with a lot of other couples, and I had 0:13:23.840 --> 0:13:28.280 feared that people would take sides, which some did, but 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:33.320 that kind of naturally fell along the friendship lines. Some 0:13:33.720 --> 0:13:36.320 very good friends of both of ours ended up sort 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:38.960 of coming to my side, even though it wasn't a battle, 0:13:39.040 --> 0:13:42.480 but just that. But some people just stayed away all together. 0:13:42.800 --> 0:13:45.839 It was like it was a disease that possibly they 0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:49.040 might catch, or maybe it was too awkward when we 0:13:49.080 --> 0:13:51.400 always did things as couples for there's to suddenly be 0:13:51.440 --> 0:13:54.719 a singleton in there, so they just stopped kind of 0:13:55.480 --> 0:13:57.359 hanging out. So it was really interesting. 0:13:57.960 --> 0:14:01.680 I know someone who recently separated and it's all been 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:04.520 very amicable, and you know, they've done a lot of 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:07.600 therapy together and a bit like you still have a 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:09.559 very strong family life with their children. 0:14:09.600 --> 0:14:10.000 And things. 0:14:11.320 --> 0:14:13.960 But you know, the guy just does not want to 0:14:13.960 --> 0:14:15.679 meet people, and all his friends are trying to set 0:14:15.720 --> 0:14:18.160 him up, and he's just and no one's listening, and 0:14:18.160 --> 0:14:21.080 he's like, I'm not ready. Please don't put me in 0:14:21.120 --> 0:14:23.120 this awkward position where every time I come for dinner 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:25.720 or I come to a party, you've invited someone from me, 0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:26.800 from me, I'm a fine. 0:14:26.840 --> 0:14:29.360 That is not fair for the women that are being 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:32.520 or tried to be paired with him as well, because 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:36.800 when someone's not ready for a relationship, Yeah, it's it 0:14:36.800 --> 0:14:38.680 can be very hurtful and very harmful. 0:14:39.760 --> 0:14:42.800 Yeah, well he's obviously very eligible, perhaps, but you know 0:14:43.000 --> 0:14:44.000 it doesn't it. 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:46.440 People just want to see their friends happy, don't they, 0:14:46.760 --> 0:14:47.560 And they think they're. 0:14:47.400 --> 0:14:49.320 Doing the right thing, but they're just not listening. 0:14:49.400 --> 0:14:50.440 Yeah, but surely there's. 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:53.840 A recovery period, like any trauma in your life. Where 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:54.040 are you? 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.120 Yeah, I think so. I think there's a grieving process. 0:14:57.520 --> 0:14:59.560 I suppose some people might go off the deep end 0:14:59.680 --> 0:15:02.120 and you know, go a little bit silly for a while, 0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:05.320 depending on, you know, what the circumstances of the breakup where. 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:06.000 But I think. 0:15:07.520 --> 0:15:09.360 I mean, if you're just looking for a bit of fun, sure, 0:15:09.400 --> 0:15:11.520 but if you're actually looking for another relationship, yes, I 0:15:11.520 --> 0:15:14.880 think you need time to let the dust settle, to 0:15:14.960 --> 0:15:19.920 let the grieving, because even if you're the instigator, it's 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:23.400 still a very painful process. If you've got children involved, 0:15:23.800 --> 0:15:25.360 you know, you want to make sure you're not kind 0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:29.720 of like right, meet your new daddy five minutes later. 0:15:29.760 --> 0:15:32.080 You've really got a tread very careful. 0:15:32.160 --> 0:15:36.160 I don't know anyone who's entered the separation process lightly 0:15:36.600 --> 0:15:39.440 or you know, and they've kind of they potentially would 0:15:39.440 --> 0:15:41.760 have done it earlier, but they've kind of thought through 0:15:41.800 --> 0:15:44.400 the pain and difficulty in all the stages really daunting. 0:15:44.560 --> 0:15:47.360 I mean even just all the tasks you have to 0:15:47.360 --> 0:15:51.200 do a daunting to even become separated, you know, unmeshing 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:55.200 your finances, and there's all the familial stuff, not just 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:58.520 the children, but the in laws and the and the 0:15:58.560 --> 0:16:02.000 cousins and everyone else that sort of involved and entwined, 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.840 and a lot of people put it off, I think, 0:16:05.320 --> 0:16:07.880 will push it to one side because it just feels 0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:12.640 like too much hard work to even contemplate separating. But 0:16:13.200 --> 0:16:17.840 I'm here to say that there is a better life 0:16:17.840 --> 0:16:18.680 on the other side. 0:16:18.800 --> 0:16:22.400 So what do you wish you'd noan before separating or 0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:23.120 getting a divorce. 0:16:25.160 --> 0:16:31.360 Both my separations I instigated, and I felt great guilt 0:16:32.480 --> 0:16:39.480 about that, particularly the first time, and so I didn't 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:43.320 necessarily follow all my lawyer's advice, and I was probably 0:16:43.360 --> 0:16:49.200 over generous in things I agreed to. And the second 0:16:49.280 --> 0:16:52.040 time I was overly generous again, but that's just because 0:16:52.040 --> 0:16:55.800 I wanted it done. I just was I couldn't be 0:16:55.840 --> 0:16:59.200 bothered dragging it through the courts and everything. So I 0:16:59.240 --> 0:17:04.800 think women tend to be affected quite negatively financially from 0:17:04.840 --> 0:17:08.400 a separation. I don't think any of us are smart 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:11.080 enough to, you know, have secret bank accounts or but 0:17:11.280 --> 0:17:13.320 you know, we've also had those years where we haven't 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:15.919 necessarily been earning, that's right. And you know, when I 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:20.399 separated the first time, my children were three and five, 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.320 so getting another full time job was not that easy, 0:17:24.960 --> 0:17:27.160 you know, when you had had little ones to look after. 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:32.680 So yeah, that is a big, a big consideration for women, 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:37.320 is the financial aspect that I probably didn't think through. 0:17:38.760 --> 0:17:42.720 Yeah, I mean, I guess, so how do you know that? 0:17:43.040 --> 0:17:45.439 So with all those external pressures and knowing it's going 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:48.480 to be hard, how can you comment on how you 0:17:48.520 --> 0:17:50.760 think that somebody would know that this is actually we've 0:17:50.880 --> 0:17:51.720 at the end of the road. 0:17:53.240 --> 0:17:57.040 Yeah, I think if you're just for me, it was 0:17:59.359 --> 0:18:07.960 about being suffocated, feeling caged a little bit. I met 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:10.679 my first husband when I was twenty two. I was 0:18:10.720 --> 0:18:13.000 just starting off in my career. He was doing really well. 0:18:13.000 --> 0:18:15.879 We worked in the same industry, which possibly wasn't a 0:18:15.880 --> 0:18:20.960 great thing. My career kind of took off and his 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.240 had stalled a little bit. I think that created some tension. 0:18:24.520 --> 0:18:28.399 There was a seven year age gap between us, and 0:18:28.440 --> 0:18:31.639 I think that came into play as well. And I 0:18:31.680 --> 0:18:34.320 think he wanted to live this sort of life of 0:18:35.160 --> 0:18:37.359 like we were retired already and I was in my 0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:39.359 mid thirties, and I was like, this is my prime, 0:18:39.520 --> 0:18:45.919 this is my whoo. So yeah, that was the main feeling. 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:49.760 And with the second year, that's completely different kettle of fish. 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:53.760 But again, I just wanted to live my life by myself. 0:18:54.760 --> 0:18:56.520 I was quite happy to be by myself. There weren't 0:18:56.520 --> 0:18:59.480 other people involved. It wasn't like that. I just wanted 0:18:59.520 --> 0:19:02.560 to be free to be me. You know, that's kind 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:05.160 of you know, but new age. But I just really 0:19:05.160 --> 0:19:06.199 wanted that opportunity. 0:19:06.240 --> 0:19:08.159 Yeah, and if you can't do that within a marriage 0:19:08.160 --> 0:19:11.840 if that's not because you know, I do have a 0:19:11.880 --> 0:19:15.320 husband who doesn't really going out. He doesn't ask you 0:19:15.320 --> 0:19:17.840 where I'm going really or or and Francisca and I 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:20.240 have been free to roam around the country and do 0:19:20.280 --> 0:19:23.160 our runs and everything. We've always if I if he 0:19:23.359 --> 0:19:24.880 was at any point like well what are you doing? 0:19:25.000 --> 0:19:28.919 Or you've spent more or yeah, I would make me 0:19:28.960 --> 0:19:30.040 stop and think for sure. 0:19:30.119 --> 0:19:33.080 Yeah, yeah, there's that trust, and there's that you know, 0:19:33.160 --> 0:19:35.560 I wanted to travel. That is a big thing for me, 0:19:35.680 --> 0:19:40.080 is traveling, and neither of my husbands have wanted to 0:19:40.080 --> 0:19:44.959 travel at all, which is a big issue. Yeah, because 0:19:45.040 --> 0:19:48.159 you know, I'd prefer to travel with my partner if 0:19:48.200 --> 0:19:50.200 I can. I'm quite happy to do other trips with 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:53.400 friends all by myself, but you know, one or two 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:54.359 would be quite nice. 0:19:55.400 --> 0:19:57.119 You're listening to the little things, and I guess on 0:19:57.160 --> 0:19:59.920 the podcast today as Coast Day host Lorna Ridley talking 0:20:00.080 --> 0:20:03.160 divorce and dating that we'll be back shortly after this break. 0:20:14.440 --> 0:20:19.080 Welcome back now, Lorna. What's the emotional toll you've mentioned 0:20:19.119 --> 0:20:21.240 sort of the financial You know that it can be 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:25.480 quite difficult for women financially when they get divorced. What 0:20:25.640 --> 0:20:27.920 about the emotional toll of separation and divorce. 0:20:28.480 --> 0:20:32.800 Oh, I don't think that can be underestimated. It is massive. 0:20:33.480 --> 0:20:37.520 And again, facing that at thirty five was very different 0:20:37.560 --> 0:20:40.760 to facing it at fifty three, which are the two 0:20:41.119 --> 0:20:46.600 ages I was. When I with my separations. When I 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:49.880 was thirty five, the emotional toll revolved a lot around 0:20:49.920 --> 0:20:54.600 the children because we agreed to have fifty to fifty 0:20:54.640 --> 0:21:01.600 custody sort of one week about, and it was pretty 0:21:01.600 --> 0:21:03.760 good to start off with. We rented an apartment and 0:21:03.840 --> 0:21:05.800 so we did the week about, not the children, so 0:21:05.840 --> 0:21:07.359 it was quite sort of stable for them in the 0:21:07.400 --> 0:21:12.560 family home. But eventually we settled financially and I bought 0:21:12.600 --> 0:21:17.480 my own place. And both times with my separations, I'm 0:21:17.480 --> 0:21:19.320 the one that moved out of the family home because 0:21:19.320 --> 0:21:21.119 I was the one that instigated and I felt I 0:21:21.119 --> 0:21:25.520 should And yet that was terribly emotional as well. I 0:21:25.560 --> 0:21:28.680 remember my children said, Dad says that this is our 0:21:28.720 --> 0:21:32.120 real home because this is, you know, where we were 0:21:32.119 --> 0:21:34.440 born and things, and I just remember being gutted by 0:21:34.480 --> 0:21:39.159 that driving past the family home when I knew my 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:43.120 kids were in there. It was their week with their dad, 0:21:43.400 --> 0:21:45.000 and I was going to visit a friend and I 0:21:45.040 --> 0:21:48.480 would go past every time and just go, My babies 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:49.879 are in there, and I just want hug them and 0:21:49.920 --> 0:21:53.000 I can't, so very very difficult. 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:57.040 Is it just time? Does time make that manageable? 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:01.080 And does make it manageable? And my ex and I 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:03.760 our relationship got better as well, so we would actually 0:22:03.800 --> 0:22:05.320 kind of go or let's all go to the park, 0:22:05.480 --> 0:22:07.280 or let's all go to a basketball game, so we 0:22:07.280 --> 0:22:09.760 could actually see the kids together and hang out and 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.760 think it was good for them as well. But yeah, 0:22:13.760 --> 0:22:16.000 that was that was a big emotional thing. 0:22:17.280 --> 0:22:21.520 Quite a few friends who have separated have really struggled 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:23.879 at first. The kids have been old enough to kind of, 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:26.240 you know, spend a week or five days with one 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:30.480 parent and then swap over, and initially they don't know 0:22:30.480 --> 0:22:33.080 what to do with themselves, and they you know, feel like, 0:22:33.520 --> 0:22:35.440 you know, they feel berieved that their kids aren't there, 0:22:35.480 --> 0:22:37.639 and it's doesn't take too. 0:22:37.520 --> 0:22:40.040 Long, no, And then when you're mixing, you know, I'm 0:22:40.040 --> 0:22:45.800 going week, your life looks really good, to be fair, Yes, 0:22:45.920 --> 0:22:48.800 that that was definitely the case, that that it does 0:22:48.840 --> 0:22:50.360 give you certain freedoms as well. 0:22:50.400 --> 0:22:52.479 You think you know, I would love a break from 0:22:52.520 --> 0:22:55.520 my children. Will you get that? But be careful what 0:22:55.560 --> 0:22:56.920 you wish for. Yeah, I was going to say that 0:22:57.440 --> 0:22:59.600 a break every now and again is quite different to 0:23:00.440 --> 0:23:04.199 every second week, and yeah, yeah, quite quite difficult. The 0:23:04.320 --> 0:23:07.359 second time I separated, obviously a lot older, I wouldn't 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:09.720 say why, is a bit a lot older. That had 0:23:09.760 --> 0:23:17.080 a different emotional toll. My daughter was pregnant with my granddaughter, 0:23:17.320 --> 0:23:20.639 and that was one of the reasons that we split, 0:23:20.720 --> 0:23:24.560 because we were living with my ex, who was horrified 0:23:24.600 --> 0:23:26.680 that a baby was going to be born into this house, 0:23:26.760 --> 0:23:32.520 no matter that he had known my daughter for fifteen years. 0:23:33.920 --> 0:23:36.560 So I sort of uped and left with everybody. And 0:23:36.640 --> 0:23:39.359 so I felt a terrible weight on my shoulders because 0:23:39.359 --> 0:23:41.160 I felt like I was having to be not only 0:23:41.240 --> 0:23:47.280 strong for my children, my daughter and my younger daughter. 0:23:47.440 --> 0:23:49.760 My son by this stage was you know, living his 0:23:49.800 --> 0:23:53.359 own life and on his own two feet, but for 0:23:53.440 --> 0:23:57.320 my granddaughter as well. And so that was a that 0:23:57.440 --> 0:24:01.320 was very emotional. And then of course I got health 0:24:01.359 --> 0:24:05.359 issues smack bang right on the brink of separation. I 0:24:05.440 --> 0:24:09.800 ended up in hospital with a tubo ovarian absess, and 0:24:09.920 --> 0:24:14.120 when I recovered from that after six weeks, I got 0:24:14.200 --> 0:24:17.120 hit with a second breast cancer diagnosis and then had 0:24:17.119 --> 0:24:20.879 to go through chemo and radiotherapy and all those other things. 0:24:21.240 --> 0:24:25.040 And I remember thinking at the time, really shouldn't have 0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:29.240 separated because I could do with, you know, the support 0:24:29.320 --> 0:24:33.480 right now. But actually, yeah, no regrets at all. And 0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:35.960 you can't just be with somebody because they can help 0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:39.000 you through, you know, a terrible time. It's just that 0:24:39.119 --> 0:24:41.159 I was trying to be strong for my children and 0:24:41.160 --> 0:24:43.359 then I felt like I was letting them down by 0:24:45.320 --> 0:24:49.639 being ill myself. But yeah, I'm not a great believer 0:24:49.760 --> 0:24:51.840 in regrets, and like I say, I have that one 0:24:51.840 --> 0:24:54.920 regret about the first separation, but I don't have too many. 0:24:55.040 --> 0:25:02.120 It's an emotional toll, but it's survivable and it's thrivable. Wow, 0:25:02.200 --> 0:25:03.119 I don't even know if that's it. 0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:04.000 Yeah, that's the word. 0:25:04.000 --> 0:25:04.399 I want to make it. 0:25:04.520 --> 0:25:05.360 Please make it a word. 0:25:06.040 --> 0:25:08.280 And yeah, but I'm not just saying, you know, you 0:25:08.600 --> 0:25:10.879 can get through this, but actually you can thrive on 0:25:10.920 --> 0:25:13.440 the other side. And I reckon my fifties have been 0:25:13.480 --> 0:25:14.680 my best decade. 0:25:14.800 --> 0:25:19.240 Oh you're flying, But as you say, it does take 0:25:19.320 --> 0:25:21.919 a little while. And I think even when people know 0:25:22.480 --> 0:25:25.679 they need to go. Yes, you need to almost in 0:25:25.720 --> 0:25:28.119 the back of your mind, just know it is going 0:25:28.160 --> 0:25:30.480 to take a little time to sort out all those things, 0:25:30.520 --> 0:25:33.119 to sort out the finances and to work out what 0:25:33.119 --> 0:25:35.960 you're going to do with property, and to get children settled, 0:25:36.359 --> 0:25:40.200 and to find your own rhythm. I've my unscientific research 0:25:40.280 --> 0:25:43.439 on this, or unscientific survey that I've done from everybody 0:25:43.480 --> 0:25:45.800 I know is it's taken them about two years. Oh yeah, 0:25:45.840 --> 0:25:49.320 it takes about two years, and then they suddenly go, Actually, 0:25:49.520 --> 0:25:52.000 everything is good and we're sort of sorted, and I'm 0:25:52.080 --> 0:25:54.879 moving forward and I'm not thinking about it every day 0:25:55.080 --> 0:25:55.920 and life is good. 0:25:56.040 --> 0:25:58.520 It's exactly right. Sometimes you can't see that light out 0:25:58.600 --> 0:26:01.000 at the end of the tunnel. But with everything tough 0:26:01.040 --> 0:26:03.280 that I've been through, I have the mantra this too 0:26:03.320 --> 0:26:05.520 shell pass. It's engraved on the ring that I wear 0:26:05.560 --> 0:26:08.879 on my finger every day, and my daughter actually has 0:26:08.880 --> 0:26:12.639 a tattoo of it as well. So just reminding yourself 0:26:12.680 --> 0:26:16.760 that this is temporary, that it will get better, and 0:26:16.800 --> 0:26:19.399 as you say, two years and the grand scheme of 0:26:19.440 --> 0:26:22.639 things is not very long. At the time, it seems 0:26:22.680 --> 0:26:25.560 like forever when you're living it. Going through it, you know, 0:26:25.680 --> 0:26:28.399 when it's groundhog Day and nothing seems to be getting 0:26:28.400 --> 0:26:33.119 any better, but you do need to remember that it 0:26:33.200 --> 0:26:35.920 is temporary and that there is light on the other side. 0:26:36.240 --> 0:26:39.680 Yeah. There's a doctor where I work at the university 0:26:39.680 --> 0:26:41.800 who has put little sayings on her door, and one 0:26:41.800 --> 0:26:45.440 of them is, if you're going through, how just keep 0:26:45.480 --> 0:26:47.840 getting on going? Yeah, yeah, I don't know where that 0:26:47.920 --> 0:26:50.359 comes from. It, Yeah, I often think about that when 0:26:51.119 --> 0:26:54.000 because you particularly the same with the cancer diagnosis. There 0:26:54.040 --> 0:26:56.520 is no other way through except for through, yeah, well 0:26:56.560 --> 0:26:57.520 hopefully through. 0:26:57.359 --> 0:27:00.520 Yeah yeah, yeah, Well that's exactly right. Yeah, that's all 0:27:00.560 --> 0:27:01.080 you can do. 0:27:01.400 --> 0:27:04.320 And it all adds to this kind of incredible resilience 0:27:04.359 --> 0:27:05.000 as well, I guess. 0:27:05.119 --> 0:27:07.720 Yeah, And I think if you have to dwell on 0:27:07.760 --> 0:27:10.080 the positives and you have to keep reminding yourself why 0:27:10.119 --> 0:27:12.399 you've done this, whether it's for a better life for 0:27:12.440 --> 0:27:14.600 your children, whether it's a better life for you, whether 0:27:14.640 --> 0:27:16.920 it's just so you can you live with yourself, whether 0:27:16.960 --> 0:27:19.840 you want to achieve more than you could have achieved 0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:23.960 in that relationship, or maybe it's just a relationship that's 0:27:24.000 --> 0:27:25.399 run its course. It doesn't even need to be a 0:27:25.440 --> 0:27:29.640 bad relationship, but maybe it's just you know, sometimes there 0:27:29.640 --> 0:27:33.200 are relationships for the times, and you know, we go 0:27:33.320 --> 0:27:37.959 through such life changes, particularly women. I think where you know, 0:27:38.119 --> 0:27:42.800 where the the the Bonnie to their Clyde for a while, 0:27:42.880 --> 0:27:45.520 and then children come along, and you know, everything's all 0:27:45.560 --> 0:27:47.800 about the kids. And then the kids start leaving home. 0:27:47.840 --> 0:27:49.920 They don't, you know, to become teenagers that don't want 0:27:49.920 --> 0:27:53.040 their mums around anymore, and things change there. Our careers, 0:27:53.440 --> 0:27:56.400 you know, have so many different cycles if we choose 0:27:56.440 --> 0:28:00.000 to become mothers, and so I think that you actually 0:28:00.280 --> 0:28:04.080 end up quite a different person from the one that. 0:28:04.119 --> 0:28:06.080 Married, was standing at the altar, that was standing at 0:28:06.080 --> 0:28:07.040 the altars again. 0:28:07.040 --> 0:28:10.520 And I don't think that's a good or a bad thing. 0:28:10.560 --> 0:28:12.639 I just think it's a thing just life. Yeah, it 0:28:12.760 --> 0:28:14.959 is life. And and you know what they say, you know, 0:28:15.320 --> 0:28:18.320 some people can grow together, and that's true, and some 0:28:18.320 --> 0:28:21.240 people don't. You know, one day, these great divorces that 0:28:21.240 --> 0:28:23.000 are happening. I was shocked at the rate of over 0:28:23.080 --> 0:28:29.119 sixty fives. I thought, good lord, we've just sucks, you know, 0:28:29.200 --> 0:28:31.159 married for forty years and something. But you know, I 0:28:31.200 --> 0:28:34.359 think that's probably right. Stop working, kids have left home, 0:28:34.600 --> 0:28:36.840 don't see the grandchildren that much. You sit and look 0:28:36.880 --> 0:28:39.040 at each other and go, what have we actually gone 0:28:39.040 --> 0:28:42.000 in common? You know, maybe it's nothing. 0:28:42.560 --> 0:28:45.040 I also don't like the term a failed marriage, because 0:28:45.040 --> 0:28:47.840 you can have you can you know, marriages do end, 0:28:48.000 --> 0:28:50.360 doesn't mean that they weren't successful at some peple. 0:28:50.360 --> 0:28:53.360 Well, that's right, that's exactly right. Like I consider my 0:28:53.480 --> 0:28:58.239 marriages were both successful until they weren't. And you know 0:28:58.400 --> 0:29:02.760 that's that's nobody's fault. It's that. Yeah, that's the way 0:29:02.760 --> 0:29:03.040 it is. 0:29:03.280 --> 0:29:07.080 Okay, let's get dating. Yeah, tell me you're now engaged 0:29:07.080 --> 0:29:08.920 to Mike. How did st of you meet. 0:29:09.480 --> 0:29:13.120 On a dating app? On hinge? So I tried a 0:29:13.120 --> 0:29:17.920 couple of dating apps, and as did he. Someone to 0:29:17.920 --> 0:29:19.920 sort of tell the story in parallel, so we both 0:29:20.000 --> 0:29:23.080 became single around about the same time. He'd been married 0:29:23.160 --> 0:29:26.320 for twenty five years and has three children, as I 0:29:26.360 --> 0:29:30.720 have three children. And we both kind of met our 0:29:30.800 --> 0:29:35.120 first partner on the dating apps around about the same time, 0:29:35.120 --> 0:29:37.880 and those relationships lasted about the same length, which is 0:29:37.880 --> 0:29:42.000 about six months. And we both fold for those people 0:29:42.040 --> 0:29:46.040 pretty heavily, I think, as you tend to do with 0:29:46.160 --> 0:29:49.440 a first relationship. But they were people, both of them 0:29:49.680 --> 0:29:53.200 that weren't ready for relationships. They shouldn't have put themselves 0:29:53.240 --> 0:29:55.760 out there as being ready for relationships because they weren't. 0:29:55.880 --> 0:29:59.480 And you also learn about being really honest on the apps. 0:29:59.560 --> 0:30:02.440 Like I just after a while, after a lot of 0:30:02.440 --> 0:30:04.160 sort of time wasters and people I didn't have much 0:30:04.200 --> 0:30:06.520 in common with that, I only wanted to date people 0:30:06.520 --> 0:30:09.920 who had children, grown up children, whatever, I didn't care, 0:30:10.160 --> 0:30:12.480 but they had to have had children because otherwise they 0:30:12.480 --> 0:30:15.200 wouldn't understand my situation of living with two of my 0:30:15.280 --> 0:30:18.560 daughters and a granddaughter as well. And I've got a 0:30:18.560 --> 0:30:21.600 couple of nasty messages from men going you, you're just 0:30:21.760 --> 0:30:23.920 being so picky and you could be missing out on 0:30:24.120 --> 0:30:25.040 really great people. 0:30:25.120 --> 0:30:28.200 Did you go Joe like you? 0:30:29.600 --> 0:30:30.120 But no? 0:30:30.320 --> 0:30:34.520 And I said, you're probably right. There'll be some wonderful 0:30:34.560 --> 0:30:37.320 men out there without kids. And I'm sure it works 0:30:37.360 --> 0:30:39.560 for some people, but for me, that was a boundary. 0:30:39.600 --> 0:30:42.520 You know, never be afraid to put out your own boundaries. 0:30:42.720 --> 0:30:45.200 There is a fucking of one great bit of advice. 0:30:45.320 --> 0:30:50.200 I discovered this group after I met Mike, but it 0:30:50.280 --> 0:30:52.480 is absolutely brilliant and he passes all of the test. 0:30:52.560 --> 0:30:56.080 It's called the Burning Haystack method. So it's a Facebook 0:30:56.120 --> 0:31:00.520 group and it's run by an academic in the States. She'shilarious. 0:31:00.840 --> 0:31:03.600 She's single, she's trying to date. It's not going well, 0:31:04.520 --> 0:31:07.400 but she is all about the applied rhetoric, and so 0:31:07.480 --> 0:31:09.560 her theory is, how do you find a needle in 0:31:09.600 --> 0:31:14.480 a haystack? You burn the haystack down. So you just 0:31:14.640 --> 0:31:17.880 are swiping, swipe and swiping anything that is any red flag, 0:31:18.000 --> 0:31:21.000 anything that comes up that breaks one of the group rules, 0:31:21.080 --> 0:31:23.160 you just get rid of them because eventually those things 0:31:23.200 --> 0:31:27.760 are going to be problematic. And it's it's actually brilliant 0:31:27.760 --> 0:31:30.680 to see it in action. You see some things that 0:31:31.600 --> 0:31:35.080 seem okay and seem innocuous and harmless on a dating app, 0:31:35.080 --> 0:31:37.760 and then she analyzes it and you're like, oh, I see, 0:31:37.960 --> 0:31:40.280 I see what to look out for now, and it's 0:31:40.320 --> 0:31:42.320 it's really good. And like I said, I've gone back 0:31:42.360 --> 0:31:44.880 and looked over my all, Mike's and my correspondence to 0:31:44.920 --> 0:31:47.360 start off with, and he passes completely. 0:31:47.720 --> 0:31:49.600 Is that for any age? Can I? Oh? 0:31:49.680 --> 0:31:54.480 Yeah, absolutely towards older. But I've got some of the 0:31:54.480 --> 0:31:56.960 young girls here at work onto it, not having much 0:31:57.000 --> 0:31:59.880 fun on the dating apps. You know, if he said 0:32:00.120 --> 0:32:05.520 is he loves cuddles. Yeah, he likes the sex before. 0:32:05.280 --> 0:32:11.960 The cuddles and then but it's like lovely. But it's 0:32:12.000 --> 0:32:14.520 like it's like real estate language, right, you know, there's 0:32:14.560 --> 0:32:17.160 when when you sell a house you read between the 0:32:17.160 --> 0:32:18.960 lines what they're trying to tell you. Oh, it doesn't 0:32:18.960 --> 0:32:25.040 get any sun, but it has this. So it's kind 0:32:25.080 --> 0:32:27.120 of about just how fast. 0:32:26.920 --> 0:32:29.480 I would leave anybody who's holding a fish. 0:32:29.560 --> 0:32:32.720 But there are lots of yes, yes, fish and anything 0:32:32.760 --> 0:32:35.760 that is. And they talk about the men, the men 0:32:35.920 --> 0:32:40.080 that they set up their dating profiles to attract other 0:32:40.160 --> 0:32:41.920 men by the looks of things, because it's all like 0:32:42.040 --> 0:32:47.400 a rugby or you know, boxing matches or sports things 0:32:47.640 --> 0:32:52.320 or and don't get me started on the I don't know. 0:32:52.440 --> 0:32:55.600 Some men just send photos of the mid riff. 0:32:55.720 --> 0:32:56.080 I don't know. 0:32:56.320 --> 0:33:00.680 I don't quite know what that's about. Unsolicited picks. I 0:33:00.720 --> 0:33:04.240 have written about this before in the Herald. I thought 0:33:04.240 --> 0:33:06.360 I might be too old to be getting some of those. 0:33:07.480 --> 0:33:11.040 Yeah I did, Yeah, I did so. I mean they're 0:33:11.040 --> 0:33:13.680 not great looking at the best of times, but if 0:33:13.680 --> 0:33:16.560 you're going to take a photo with a very unflattering angle, 0:33:17.720 --> 0:33:18.240 send it to. 0:33:18.200 --> 0:33:20.520 Me too much. I mean, at least did that give 0:33:20.560 --> 0:33:22.600 you a bit of a laugh at least? All was that? 0:33:24.280 --> 0:33:24.960 Yeah? 0:33:25.280 --> 0:33:26.680 Yeah, But I. 0:33:26.600 --> 0:33:30.880 Also thought, in what universe would that work for you? 0:33:31.200 --> 0:33:34.720 In what universe are you going to attract or anybody 0:33:35.240 --> 0:33:35.760 sending that? 0:33:35.920 --> 0:33:38.400 Did you think Hinde was the best for middle age dating? 0:33:38.640 --> 0:33:40.360 Yeah, I thought it was quite good because there's a 0:33:40.400 --> 0:33:45.160 little bit of a character to it. It was less 0:33:45.200 --> 0:33:49.040 about the sex, which I think that Tinder to me 0:33:49.320 --> 0:33:53.360 implies casual hookups. So I was very clear about the 0:33:53.400 --> 0:33:56.640 fact I didn't want any casual hookups at all. It 0:33:56.640 --> 0:33:58.840 didn't stop people trying, but at least I had I 0:33:58.880 --> 0:34:03.000 had stated it, and you can choose different prompts and 0:34:03.600 --> 0:34:07.400 interesting things. And I think I liked Mikes because he 0:34:07.480 --> 0:34:09.960 had He said he loved the ocean. There was a 0:34:10.000 --> 0:34:13.279 photo of his silly, little fluffy, stubby dog running on 0:34:13.320 --> 0:34:15.600 the beach, and I thought that's pretty cute, and I 0:34:15.680 --> 0:34:20.319 knew he had the kids. He found I swiped I 0:34:20.320 --> 0:34:23.719 don't know left right, whatever it is on him swipe right, 0:34:24.160 --> 0:34:27.520 and when he saw my profile come up, one of 0:34:27.560 --> 0:34:29.799 his workers came into his office and he panicked and 0:34:29.840 --> 0:34:32.919 he shut down the thing and he lost my Oh 0:34:33.000 --> 0:34:36.560 he lost my profile, but he had read my series 0:34:36.640 --> 0:34:39.680 on dating over fifty in the Herald. That's why he 0:34:39.719 --> 0:34:42.239 actually joined the dating apps in the first place, so 0:34:42.320 --> 0:34:46.120 he couldn't believe it's so durable. Later I had popped 0:34:46.200 --> 0:34:49.520 up and then he accidentally deleted me. So he sends 0:34:49.680 --> 0:34:58.000 an email to my boss, owing, you know, slightly storkery behavior, 0:34:58.040 --> 0:35:02.879 but blah blah blah blah blah. Anyway, he said, I've 0:35:02.880 --> 0:35:04.600 lost you on Hinge, but this is what I would 0:35:04.600 --> 0:35:06.800 have written if I had been on Hinge. And he 0:35:06.840 --> 0:35:11.000 wrote with this big long thing and said he was 0:35:11.040 --> 0:35:13.600 going to a concert the next night, James Taylor. And 0:35:13.640 --> 0:35:15.840 I said, all lucky. You've never seen James Taylor. Wouldn't 0:35:15.840 --> 0:35:16.319 mind seeing him. 0:35:16.320 --> 0:35:16.560 And we went. 0:35:16.600 --> 0:35:19.439 Actually got a spare ticket, supposed to take my sister, 0:35:19.520 --> 0:35:23.160 but you know, too bad to her if you want 0:35:23.200 --> 0:35:24.839 to come. And I thought, you know, a concert's kind 0:35:24.840 --> 0:35:27.560 of safe. There's security guards around, you don't even have 0:35:27.640 --> 0:35:31.399 to talk much of its disastrous And I said, okay, 0:35:31.480 --> 0:35:33.680 so we'll meet outside Spark Arena. You know what I 0:35:33.719 --> 0:35:35.799 look like? How do I know what you look like? 0:35:35.840 --> 0:35:37.440 And he goes, oh, it's easy. I'm six foot two, 0:35:37.520 --> 0:35:40.160 bold and built like a brick shit house, every woman's dream. 0:35:40.560 --> 0:35:45.600 And I thought he's funny. I like that, And that 0:35:45.719 --> 0:35:49.359 was that was that bad? That was that we were Yeah, 0:35:49.560 --> 0:35:52.160 we our second date, we went to a gin festival 0:35:52.880 --> 0:35:55.279 and we got asked by these two young girls how 0:35:55.320 --> 0:35:58.400 long we've been married. When they found out it was 0:35:58.400 --> 0:36:01.920 our second date, they asked to be bridesmaids. We've reconnected 0:36:01.920 --> 0:36:03.879 with them now we're engaged. They actually, you're very keen 0:36:03.920 --> 0:36:06.760 to be our bridesmaids. Quite funny. 0:36:07.040 --> 0:36:11.239 So yeah, you mentioned, sorry, you mentioned it was important 0:36:11.440 --> 0:36:14.239 to if you're going to go on these sites to 0:36:14.320 --> 0:36:17.000 be ready for a relationship. How do you actually know 0:36:17.200 --> 0:36:18.839 if you are ready to meet someone else? 0:36:19.520 --> 0:36:22.200 Well, I think you have to dip your toe in 0:36:22.239 --> 0:36:27.440 the water. And I think I think it's okay to 0:36:27.520 --> 0:36:31.040 have something casual as well. Like when I'm talking about 0:36:31.040 --> 0:36:35.160 a relationship, I'm talking about a committed, monogamous relationship. But 0:36:35.239 --> 0:36:37.319 I do think it's okay to go out for a 0:36:37.320 --> 0:36:41.160 coffee with somebody, maybe see them again in a couple 0:36:41.239 --> 0:36:43.120 of weeks, but maybe see some other people as well, 0:36:43.160 --> 0:36:45.080 you know, and see if you're not going to decide 0:36:45.560 --> 0:36:49.960 from well maybe I did, but from one meeting that 0:36:50.080 --> 0:36:52.000 this is going, that this is your person, but. 0:36:53.680 --> 0:36:56.359 Yeah, you can take small steps just to get back 0:36:56.560 --> 0:36:58.000 into data. 0:36:58.080 --> 0:36:59.920 Another piece of advice i'd give if you're doing the 0:37:00.120 --> 0:37:04.480 dating thing after doing dinners and drinks and whatever, coffee 0:37:04.480 --> 0:37:06.960 on a Sunday morning. I was going to ask you 0:37:07.000 --> 0:37:09.920 on a Sunday morning because then if it's going well, 0:37:10.440 --> 0:37:14.480 you can seg into lunch. If it's not, you've got 0:37:14.480 --> 0:37:17.680 a lunch date and you've got to go. No alcohol 0:37:17.719 --> 0:37:21.719 involved means no, you know your sensors are going to 0:37:21.719 --> 0:37:25.279 be spidery sharp, And yeah, I think it's for me. 0:37:25.400 --> 0:37:27.600 It worked out really well because I would know within 0:37:27.600 --> 0:37:29.239 a half an hour and then it's sort of going, 0:37:29.280 --> 0:37:30.719 it was nice to meet you, and blah blah, and 0:37:30.800 --> 0:37:31.319 off we'd go. 0:37:32.320 --> 0:37:35.080 That's really useful advice. That was my quest. Next question 0:37:35.160 --> 0:37:36.360 is going to be what do you suggest for that 0:37:36.440 --> 0:37:37.800 first meeting people. 0:37:37.600 --> 0:37:40.000 They're quite often going and they meet for cocktails or something, 0:37:40.080 --> 0:37:44.040 or they'll meet for dinner. And there's no way if 0:37:44.080 --> 0:37:47.520 you know almost immediately that this is not going to 0:37:47.560 --> 0:37:49.480 be a person for you, that you want to sit 0:37:49.520 --> 0:37:52.760 through a dinner that awkward thing of who pays? Because 0:37:52.840 --> 0:37:56.040 I always want to go halves. I don't want anyone 0:37:56.080 --> 0:37:58.320 to coffee. I don't care. You can buy me a coffee, 0:37:58.480 --> 0:38:00.479 that's fine, but I don't want to go for dinner 0:38:00.520 --> 0:38:03.480 and drinks and have you pay and then you know, 0:38:03.880 --> 0:38:05.040 walk me to my car. 0:38:05.719 --> 0:38:08.120 No thanks, So how do you do start dealing with 0:38:08.200 --> 0:38:09.839 that when people want to walk you to your car? 0:38:09.960 --> 0:38:10.200 Owner? 0:38:11.040 --> 0:38:13.640 Well, actually, after this concert, mike' said let me give 0:38:13.680 --> 0:38:15.799 you a lift home because I had ubered in so 0:38:15.880 --> 0:38:18.560 I could have a Dutch carriage glass of wine or two. 0:38:19.120 --> 0:38:23.040 And he lived in completely the opposite direction. I'm over 0:38:23.080 --> 0:38:25.840 on the shore and it was like, is it a. 0:38:25.840 --> 0:38:26.719 White panel van? 0:38:26.840 --> 0:38:28.920 And he said no, and I said okay, then well 0:38:29.560 --> 0:38:31.200 and then we got to his car and it was 0:38:31.200 --> 0:38:34.759 a he doesn't have it anymore. It was a Porsche. 0:38:35.320 --> 0:38:38.319 And I just cracked up and said, you were such 0:38:38.320 --> 0:38:42.759 a middle aged cliche. It was bloody uncomfortable. But he 0:38:42.760 --> 0:38:45.680 gave me a ride home and was very polite. There 0:38:45.719 --> 0:38:49.799 was no He was just the thing I probably loved 0:38:49.800 --> 0:38:51.759 about him most from his profile that I should have 0:38:51.800 --> 0:38:55.360 mentioned before. He's the youngest of five four older sisters. 0:38:55.800 --> 0:38:56.640 Oh brilliant. 0:38:56.960 --> 0:39:01.080 So they have women yet you go lee? He has 0:39:01.120 --> 0:39:05.480 been brought up by a whole host dwell and he 0:39:05.520 --> 0:39:07.479 respects women and he gets women. 0:39:07.680 --> 0:39:10.839 But you know what comes through to me, he sounds authentic. Oh. 0:39:10.880 --> 0:39:15.919 Absolutely, absolutely the most supportive man I've ever met. He's 0:39:15.960 --> 0:39:19.480 a solutions guy. He can't bear a situation that he 0:39:19.520 --> 0:39:23.160 can't fix, So that can be annoying because sometimes you 0:39:23.200 --> 0:39:26.279 know you don't necessarily want it fixed. But I love 0:39:26.480 --> 0:39:30.200 that he just wants to solve everything for everybody. 0:39:30.600 --> 0:39:32.960 Lorna feel free to answer this question as much or 0:39:32.960 --> 0:39:37.080 as little as you like. But obviously the second cancer diagnosis. 0:39:37.280 --> 0:39:39.480 Was this all taking place kind of around the time 0:39:39.520 --> 0:39:40.319 that you met Mike. 0:39:40.560 --> 0:39:43.319 Oh no, no, that it all happened well before. So 0:39:43.360 --> 0:39:46.879 when I met Mike, it was behind me. I'd had 0:39:46.880 --> 0:39:49.400 my ovaries and filopian tubes out because I had the 0:39:49.440 --> 0:39:52.840 brack of two gene. I had just two sort of 0:39:52.880 --> 0:39:59.719 small scars, so I was through the treatment part. But 0:40:00.000 --> 0:40:03.000 when one of the first things I told him when 0:40:03.040 --> 0:40:06.000 we met was that I'd gone through breast cancer twice, 0:40:06.000 --> 0:40:08.680 that I had the gene, and that some stage soon 0:40:08.920 --> 0:40:10.919 my own collogist was leaning on me that I needed 0:40:10.920 --> 0:40:12.520 to have the double mistick to me, so I said 0:40:12.560 --> 0:40:15.719 of that, you know, freaks you out a little bit, 0:40:15.760 --> 0:40:19.759 that's fine, but just putting out there now, and he 0:40:19.920 --> 0:40:23.600 was absolutely fine with it. His sisters had breast cancer 0:40:23.640 --> 0:40:27.479 and his mother's had breast cancer as well, so neither 0:40:27.520 --> 0:40:31.640 of them to a serious degree. But he he got it, 0:40:31.719 --> 0:40:34.279 and you know it doesn't bother him. He's just been 0:40:34.320 --> 0:40:37.120 there every step of the way with me as I 0:40:37.160 --> 0:40:40.480 go through the whole decision now because one of my 0:40:41.520 --> 0:40:43.960 breast reconstructions didn't work, so now I go do I 0:40:44.120 --> 0:40:47.400 stay at Uniboo my whole life And I keep asking 0:40:47.440 --> 0:40:50.240 him what he thinks, and he's just like, whatever makes 0:40:50.239 --> 0:40:52.480 you happy. I love you. 0:40:52.960 --> 0:40:56.000 The way you are. The way you are, wasn't that gorgeous? Yeah? 0:40:56.520 --> 0:40:58.080 What a story of hope. 0:40:58.160 --> 0:41:00.560 But it's a story of hope. They are out there, 0:41:01.080 --> 0:41:03.000 They are out there. He was a he was in 0:41:03.040 --> 0:41:06.120 a very unhappy marriage for a very long time. He's 0:41:06.160 --> 0:41:10.160 such a great guy. He's stuck in there. But eventually 0:41:10.200 --> 0:41:12.960 it became too much, and then there he was. I 0:41:13.239 --> 0:41:15.759 didn't think it was possible to meet someone so fabulous, 0:41:16.160 --> 0:41:19.319 you know, in their fifties, who wasn't cynical, Who wasn't 0:41:19.920 --> 0:41:20.200 you know. 0:41:21.400 --> 0:41:23.680 It's funny the apps, isn't it? Because I haven't really 0:41:23.680 --> 0:41:25.520 looked at them other than looking at my own kids' 0:41:25.560 --> 0:41:29.360 profiles on them. And you know, my big push with 0:41:29.480 --> 0:41:32.239 him is you better be yourself because sooner related you're 0:41:32.239 --> 0:41:33.839 going to meet people and you're going to find out. 0:41:33.960 --> 0:41:34.240 Yeah. 0:41:34.280 --> 0:41:38.040 Absolutely, and helean hear people though, Yeah, the photos are 0:41:38.080 --> 0:41:41.080 old or they're blurry, or they've got filters on. 0:41:41.280 --> 0:41:42.920 Just what they think is going to happen when you 0:41:42.960 --> 0:41:43.799 meet I don't know. 0:41:44.120 --> 0:41:47.319 Oh and some of the guys I met, they were 0:41:47.360 --> 0:41:50.120 talking about women lying about their ages. One guy I 0:41:50.160 --> 0:41:51.520 met up with a woman and she said she was 0:41:51.560 --> 0:41:54.760 forty five and she turned out to be sixty five. 0:41:56.040 --> 0:41:58.759 Like that'sbstential a year or two off. 0:41:59.800 --> 0:42:00.560 Just me more. 0:42:01.000 --> 0:42:03.839 I think she thought she looked pretty vat As soon 0:42:03.840 --> 0:42:06.680 as she walked in, he was like, Okay, this is 0:42:06.680 --> 0:42:10.440 the mum with her daughter like that. You never point you. 0:42:10.440 --> 0:42:13.440 Never like saw that who was coming and took an exit. 0:42:13.640 --> 0:42:15.919 No, No, I would never do that. I would never 0:42:15.960 --> 0:42:22.320 do that. But and there wasn't any really painful coffee dates. 0:42:22.320 --> 0:42:24.960 They're all quite pleasant, you know. I met one guy 0:42:24.960 --> 0:42:28.600 who was absolutely fascinating. He traveled the world. Both of 0:42:28.680 --> 0:42:32.680 us said afterwards, that was nice, but we won't go 0:42:32.760 --> 0:42:35.759 any further. But but it was just really interesting to 0:42:35.800 --> 0:42:38.280 meet them. I mean, I'm a curious kind of person anyway. 0:42:38.360 --> 0:42:40.560 I would imagine if you're a little bit more introverted, 0:42:41.280 --> 0:42:43.680 that would actually be quite difficult to get up the 0:42:43.719 --> 0:42:46.279 nerve to go and talk to someone knew and then 0:42:46.320 --> 0:42:48.120 to kind of go, well, I'm never seeing them again. 0:42:49.360 --> 0:42:50.600 But for me, I didn't mind that. 0:42:50.920 --> 0:42:54.360 So if somebody is a little bit apprehensive about dating 0:42:54.600 --> 0:42:58.839 after a separation or divorce, maybe middle age, you've given 0:42:58.920 --> 0:43:00.920 us some great advice anything else, I'd say. 0:43:00.800 --> 0:43:06.600 To them, just that, probably repeating myself, but that a 0:43:06.920 --> 0:43:11.000 you are enough. I mean, I was actually pretty happy 0:43:11.000 --> 0:43:12.200 on my own. I was on my own for three 0:43:12.239 --> 0:43:15.560 years before I met Mike, and I was pretty happy 0:43:15.560 --> 0:43:18.759 in that space. But I'm happier now. I am happier now. 0:43:19.239 --> 0:43:21.560 My dad always says to me, he's been married to 0:43:21.640 --> 0:43:25.239 mum for sixty five years. He always says, we were 0:43:25.280 --> 0:43:27.960 never meant to be alone. And I think there's something 0:43:28.000 --> 0:43:30.920 in that. There's no shame in being by yourself, and 0:43:30.960 --> 0:43:33.560 some people very happy by themselves, and I think that's 0:43:33.560 --> 0:43:37.680 because they don't want to compromise. But I think it's 0:43:37.719 --> 0:43:40.600 possible to be in a relationship to not have to 0:43:40.600 --> 0:43:43.520 compromise on who you are, And we're going to make 0:43:43.520 --> 0:43:45.960 compromises to a certain degree, but not on who you 0:43:46.040 --> 0:43:50.560 are and have a wonderful, wonderful life together because you know, 0:43:51.239 --> 0:43:53.759 it's the living and hopefully it's going to be a 0:43:53.800 --> 0:43:54.160 long one. 0:43:54.760 --> 0:43:57.120 Definitely. I mean, and you said at the very beginning, 0:43:57.400 --> 0:43:59.400 you know that sounds terrible or whatever. I couldn't think 0:43:59.400 --> 0:44:01.680 of a better guest to have had to have had 0:44:01.680 --> 0:44:04.000 somebody who's been through it at thirty five with two 0:44:04.040 --> 0:44:06.120 young kids to tell us that experience. We would have 0:44:06.120 --> 0:44:07.840 had to have two different women. Then wouldn't have been 0:44:08.000 --> 0:44:11.200 It would have been annoying all the stories open to us. 0:44:11.200 --> 0:44:14.560 And then to have the over fifty experience and this 0:44:14.760 --> 0:44:18.120 dating experience up in midlife. I think that's been fantastic 0:44:18.440 --> 0:44:19.080 to learn about. 0:44:20.120 --> 0:44:20.880 So when's the wedding? 0:44:21.640 --> 0:44:21.960 Ah? 0:44:22.040 --> 0:44:24.640 Yeah, this is a work in progress because we both 0:44:24.719 --> 0:44:27.719 our youngest children are still at school and we live 0:44:28.320 --> 0:44:32.760 in completely different parts of Auckland, so we live together 0:44:32.800 --> 0:44:35.359 sort of halftime at the moment. But I don't want 0:44:35.360 --> 0:44:37.560 to get married till we can live together full time 0:44:38.120 --> 0:44:40.840 and get our own place. So we're probably looking about 0:44:40.840 --> 0:44:42.799 eighteen months away, and. 0:44:42.719 --> 0:44:44.320 That's always good to have something to look forward to. 0:44:44.320 --> 0:44:45.839 It always good to have something. Well, we did get 0:44:45.880 --> 0:44:48.360 engaged after six months, so I feel like, you know, 0:44:48.680 --> 0:44:50.680 it's okay to wait a little while. 0:44:52.000 --> 0:44:54.359 Oh Laurna, thank you so much for sharing. I really 0:44:54.400 --> 0:44:56.360 really appreciate it. So lovely to see you. Thank you 0:44:56.440 --> 0:44:56.920 so much. 0:44:57.200 --> 0:45:00.000 Thank you. 0:45:08.120 --> 0:45:09.200 How fabulous is Lorna. 0:45:09.880 --> 0:45:15.080 I just think he's an inspiration, honestly, so perky, beautiful, 0:45:15.440 --> 0:45:18.200 just happy, and for what she's been through, it's just 0:45:18.280 --> 0:45:19.040 quite incredible. 0:45:19.640 --> 0:45:21.560 But I think that that's one of the reasons why 0:45:21.560 --> 0:45:23.840 we wanted to talk to her, because yes, it's difficult, 0:45:23.920 --> 0:45:26.040 Yes it takes an emotional toll, Yes it can have 0:45:26.080 --> 0:45:30.200 a financial toll on you as well. But if you know, 0:45:30.239 --> 0:45:32.759 if you're making the decision for the right reason, then 0:45:32.800 --> 0:45:35.600 there is life after separation and divorce. And that's what 0:45:35.600 --> 0:45:37.120 we wanted to get across today, didn't we. 0:45:37.320 --> 0:45:37.839 You know? God? 0:45:37.960 --> 0:45:40.640 Yeah, And I loved her talking about dating and I 0:45:40.640 --> 0:45:44.760 think that Sunday the Sunday Coffee is the best advice 0:45:44.760 --> 0:45:47.200 that she gave. One of the good pieces of advice 0:45:47.239 --> 0:45:49.480 that she gave us. It's a really good sort of 0:45:49.719 --> 0:45:53.000 way to if you're a little bit hesitant or tentative, 0:45:53.280 --> 0:45:54.759 or you're struggling to kind of work out how to 0:45:54.760 --> 0:45:56.640 meet someone. That's a really nice approach. 0:45:56.880 --> 0:45:58.800 Oh yeah, and if they're like, oh no, no, Sunday 0:45:58.800 --> 0:46:02.239 coffee Saturday night, well it. 0:46:02.280 --> 0:46:03.759 Might be one of those red flags. What was it, 0:46:03.800 --> 0:46:08.000 the burning haystack approach? You're more research on that, Yeah, 0:46:08.080 --> 0:46:09.720 something on that which I can't talk about. 0:46:09.600 --> 0:46:12.440 Dating all day long. I found it fascinating, but I 0:46:12.440 --> 0:46:15.680 guess you know. The takeaway is, like you say, you know, 0:46:16.680 --> 0:46:20.160 of course it's daunting. You don't leave a marriage easily, 0:46:21.160 --> 0:46:24.440 and but there's a pathway through, and a well trod 0:46:24.480 --> 0:46:28.200 pathway through actually, and dating as almost says, it doesn't 0:46:28.280 --> 0:46:29.799 need to be for the next relationship. 0:46:29.840 --> 0:46:32.839 It can be just meeting people, meeting interesting people, going 0:46:32.880 --> 0:46:36.120 out and having that coffee or maybe a meal, and 0:46:36.239 --> 0:46:38.640 it might go somewhere, it might not, but if you 0:46:39.000 --> 0:46:40.480 take that expectation off it. 0:46:40.719 --> 0:46:42.640 My friend had a saying for that person that you 0:46:42.640 --> 0:46:45.600 see straight after a serious relationship was called the greasy pancake. 0:46:47.280 --> 0:46:49.400 What it basically means they soap up all the crap 0:46:49.400 --> 0:46:53.040 from the last because when you put the first pancake 0:46:53.080 --> 0:46:56.600 in and you're not gonna eat it, you throw out. 0:46:57.840 --> 0:47:01.040 It's terrible, but it kind of makes sense. 0:47:01.080 --> 0:47:01.919 I've never heard that. 0:47:02.000 --> 0:47:04.000 Oh really, no, I'm sure there's a theory. 0:47:03.760 --> 0:47:06.200 About the greasy, but I just thought it was a rebound. 0:47:07.680 --> 0:47:08.880 A crazy pancake. 0:47:09.560 --> 0:47:12.279 Oh, I love it. No, lots of great advice there 0:47:12.280 --> 0:47:16.040 from Lorna. Hey, he had a joyful week. Anything joyful 0:47:16.080 --> 0:47:18.200 happening in your week this week? And then good and positive? 0:47:18.719 --> 0:47:22.120 Look, you know sometimes work can be you know, works 0:47:22.120 --> 0:47:24.040 work right, it's there for your nine to five kind 0:47:24.040 --> 0:47:26.520 of thing. I did something slightly different. I had to 0:47:26.560 --> 0:47:29.200 attend an expo over a weekend. God, I haven't done 0:47:29.200 --> 0:47:30.719 that for a really long time, and I didn't really 0:47:31.040 --> 0:47:34.120 wasn't filled with excitement about it. But I got to 0:47:34.160 --> 0:47:36.640 be around babies and toddler's again for a while and 0:47:37.080 --> 0:47:41.040 pregnant woman and I got a lot for it. And 0:47:41.160 --> 0:47:43.520 I also had to work because we can work in 0:47:43.520 --> 0:47:45.480 silos at the university sometimes and so I had to 0:47:45.520 --> 0:47:49.239 work alongside my colleagues that I never really see, and 0:47:49.280 --> 0:47:50.600 I got to know them and I felt like I 0:47:50.600 --> 0:47:52.719 was actually part of the department, so there would be 0:47:52.760 --> 0:47:55.640 my takeaway. I got something actually out of my my 0:47:55.760 --> 0:47:56.440 normal job. 0:47:56.680 --> 0:47:57.120 That's good. 0:47:57.280 --> 0:47:59.160 Yeah, yeah, which I mean it's not that it doesn't, 0:47:59.239 --> 0:48:02.080 but not every day, right, So we're outside of my 0:48:02.120 --> 0:48:05.000 comfort zone and enjoyed it. Good about you, Francesca. 0:48:05.560 --> 0:48:10.480 Well, this week I thought I would try microdosing joy, 0:48:10.960 --> 0:48:14.319 you know, so like just adding little tiny snacks, little 0:48:14.400 --> 0:48:16.120 joy snacks into my day. 0:48:18.400 --> 0:48:18.680 With you. 0:48:19.560 --> 0:48:21.560 It was just hard work and the week kind. 0:48:21.360 --> 0:48:21.960 Of went to shit. 0:48:22.200 --> 0:48:26.160 And the heap hump broke and that needs to be replaced, 0:48:26.160 --> 0:48:29.840 a car broke that needs to be fixed, a blind broke, 0:48:30.440 --> 0:48:33.600 my son mister his flight back from university that cost 0:48:33.600 --> 0:48:36.840 another three hundred dollars to get him home, even whether 0:48:36.880 --> 0:48:40.080 we really needed to come home or not. And so 0:48:40.320 --> 0:48:43.560 actually it just became really hard work trying to microdose joy, 0:48:43.600 --> 0:48:45.439 and I thought I'll give it a waste. For a week, 0:48:45.680 --> 0:48:49.120 I did wonder whether maybe I should have been microdosing psychedelics, 0:48:49.160 --> 0:48:51.319 but I couldn't get my hands on any. So I 0:48:51.480 --> 0:48:54.120 just I've just I've done an Oliver Berkman and I've 0:48:54.239 --> 0:48:57.080 just gone I'm just going to solve problem after I'm 0:48:57.080 --> 0:49:00.920 just gonna accept the problem and tackle each as it comes, 0:49:01.080 --> 0:49:03.640 and next week we'll look for some more joy. 0:49:03.920 --> 0:49:06.279 Oh bless you look. Sometimes it is a little bit. 0:49:07.200 --> 0:49:09.560 You just have weeks like that, don't you. I'm sure 0:49:09.560 --> 0:49:13.200 our listeners will will relate to that. Thanks for joining 0:49:13.280 --> 0:49:15.600 us on our new Zealand Herald podcast series, The Little Things. 0:49:15.600 --> 0:49:17.160 We hope you share this podcast with the women in 0:49:17.200 --> 0:49:19.239 your life so that we, you know, all know there's 0:49:19.239 --> 0:49:20.680 a little bit of hope out there, just in case 0:49:20.719 --> 0:49:23.040 you get really fed up with your husband and those socks. 0:49:22.760 --> 0:49:25.480 And those socks. Yeah. You can follow this podcast on 0:49:25.560 --> 0:49:28.440 iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and for more 0:49:28.480 --> 0:49:31.920 episodes from us on other topics, head to zid herold 0:49:32.200 --> 0:49:33.160 dot co dot 0:49:33.280 --> 0:49:36.120 Nz and we'll catch you next time on The Little Things.