1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 1: Acc back in trouble again. They've got themselves a seven 2 00:00:03,320 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: billion dollar hole, and when they balance the books, it's 3 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:07,520 Speaker 1: us who pays, of course, so libbies are going to 4 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:09,920 Speaker 1: have to go up a CC's chief executive, as Megan Maine, 5 00:00:10,280 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: who is with us good morning, cur to make So 6 00:00:12,720 --> 00:00:14,800 Speaker 1: from the black last year to the red this year 7 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,000 Speaker 1: to the tune of over seven billion dollars, does that 8 00:00:17,040 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: make you sort of health New Zealand two point zero. 9 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 2: Look, there's a couple of things going on with that number, Mike. 10 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 2: In terms of the deficit, there's the money we spend 11 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,159 Speaker 2: during the year, which is about seven billion, which is 12 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:33,760 Speaker 2: about what we budgeted. But the bigger factor is the 13 00:00:33,800 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 2: calculation today of the lifetime cost of the injuries that 14 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:42,839 Speaker 2: have already occurred, and that that recalculation is the is 15 00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:46,159 Speaker 2: the big driver of that seven point two billion dollar deficit. 16 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:51,519 Speaker 2: That lifetime calculation went up by eight point seven billion during. 17 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:53,760 Speaker 1: The year, Right, is that it gets. 18 00:00:56,080 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: It's a it's a mathematical estimate by actuaries who use 19 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 2: a lot of assumptions. They use economic assumptions, population assumptions, 20 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 2: inflation assumptions, so it's a best estimate and the three 21 00:01:09,319 --> 00:01:12,840 Speaker 2: aspects to it. Really, one is the expected cost increase. 22 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:16,440 Speaker 2: The scheme is still growing. Even at fifty years. We 23 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,960 Speaker 2: still get more claims coming in than exit each year, 24 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 2: so that's a big part of the increase. The unexpected 25 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,280 Speaker 2: aspect this year was a couple of court decisions which 26 00:01:28,360 --> 00:01:29,479 Speaker 2: landed in December. 27 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: Just sorry, hard, let me ask you about those. Are 28 00:01:31,760 --> 00:01:34,480 Speaker 1: those parts my understanding of those court cases as you 29 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:36,959 Speaker 1: haven't worked through the implications. Is that true or not. 30 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:42,080 Speaker 2: We're working hard to work through what those decisions mean. 31 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:45,679 Speaker 2: We have started applying it though, from the date of 32 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,520 Speaker 2: the court decisions, so we've got interim guidance that our 33 00:01:49,760 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 2: experts staff are using with current and new clients who 34 00:01:53,320 --> 00:01:57,640 Speaker 2: are victims of sexual assault. But it will take a 35 00:01:57,640 --> 00:02:01,320 Speaker 2: while to work through the full cations and how we 36 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:02,360 Speaker 2: operationalize that. 37 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 1: So you've been lumped with that. This is the stuff 38 00:02:04,120 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: I feel sorry for you. I mean, not that they 39 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:07,560 Speaker 1: shouldn't rule the way they did. I'm just saying that 40 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:09,519 Speaker 1: suddenly you wake up one morning, there's a court case 41 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 1: and there's a whole bunch of clients that you didn't 42 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: know you were getting. 43 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:17,079 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and you know, Mike, this is a really 44 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:22,520 Speaker 2: complex area of the law on acc boundary issues. You know, 45 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,639 Speaker 2: this is about people who were sexually abused as children, 46 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: so we need to step through this really carefully with them. 47 00:02:30,160 --> 00:02:31,880 Speaker 2: And so that's what we're doing, and that you know, 48 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:33,240 Speaker 2: that's what our teams are doing. 49 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: How much did I do? 50 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:41,000 Speaker 2: But there's a third aspect of the increase, and that's 51 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:44,920 Speaker 2: rehabilitation performance, and that's the thing we're really focused on. 52 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,040 Speaker 2: That's the thing most in our control, you know, making 53 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,079 Speaker 2: sure our case management is working for people. And frankly, 54 00:02:52,480 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 2: you know, the best thing we can do for our 55 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 2: clients the New Zealand productivity and for the scheme long 56 00:02:58,120 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 2: term is help people get better faster and also importantly 57 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,760 Speaker 2: you know, remember that we want people to avoid getting 58 00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:06,400 Speaker 2: injured in the. 59 00:03:06,320 --> 00:03:08,320 Speaker 1: First l correct. I'll come to that in a moment 60 00:03:08,320 --> 00:03:10,200 Speaker 1: if we get time. But this whole remember, I mean 61 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:11,520 Speaker 1: you may not have been here at the time, but 62 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,960 Speaker 1: remember years ago, the physiotherapists were ripping off the system left, 63 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,280 Speaker 1: right and center, and you went along for twenty seven 64 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: hundred sessions when you only needed three. Is there still 65 00:03:19,600 --> 00:03:22,040 Speaker 1: a bit of that in the system. 66 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 2: Look, it's an entitlement scheme, you know, and we need 67 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:29,200 Speaker 2: to make sure that we're giving people the support they need. 68 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 1: You have how much support as I'm paying for it? 69 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:32,680 Speaker 1: I mean, do you need to rut me down for 70 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:34,079 Speaker 1: the rest of my life or do we need to 71 00:03:34,120 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: get back to work? 72 00:03:35,920 --> 00:03:39,880 Speaker 2: Yeah? Yeah, Look, we're very mindful of fraud, of over payments, 73 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,520 Speaker 2: of over servicing, and we also work really closely with 74 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:46,200 Speaker 2: IRD to make sure that the people are getting the 75 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,320 Speaker 2: payments they're entitled to. But you know, your example is 76 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 2: a good example of making sure that from a case 77 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 2: management point of view, we're working closely with clients, particularly 78 00:03:56,320 --> 00:04:01,080 Speaker 2: clients receiving weekly compensation they're off work. You know, we 79 00:04:01,200 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 2: know there's so much evidence that being off work is 80 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 2: not good for you, it's not good for your well being, 81 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:08,520 Speaker 2: and so we really want to make sure we're giving 82 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:11,560 Speaker 2: people what they need, not giving them more than they need. 83 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,560 Speaker 2: We don't want to get people dependent on the scheme. 84 00:04:15,320 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 1: When Doocey comes to you as minister and go seven 85 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,400 Speaker 1: point two, I get it, but just don't go around 86 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: charging people automatically, which is what you're wanting to do. 87 00:04:24,080 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: Do you get that and are you able to do 88 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:28,799 Speaker 1: anything about it? Or is he just saying something political? 89 00:04:28,839 --> 00:04:30,000 Speaker 1: To get himself out of trouble. 90 00:04:32,839 --> 00:04:35,640 Speaker 2: So we work really closely with our minister. You know, 91 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:38,280 Speaker 2: we're all really focused on this, and as I say, 92 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:42,680 Speaker 2: the thing in our control is improving rehabilitation performance. We've 93 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 2: been working hard on that. You know, our people are 94 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:49,240 Speaker 2: working hard with our clients, and we've seen some really 95 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 2: encouraging early signs, you know, even in the last six months. 96 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 2: We've made a number of changes over the last eighteen 97 00:04:56,880 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 2: months that we're starting to see the impact of particular 98 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:03,920 Speaker 2: people getting back to work earlier with those less serious injuries. 99 00:05:03,960 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: Because here's my problem, having followed this for years, we 100 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,760 Speaker 1: used to be a basket case. Then you got it 101 00:05:11,800 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 1: together and it was off the radar and you're actually 102 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: in the black and we're all happy, and then all 103 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,159 Speaker 1: of a sudden, bang at seven million dollars and the 104 00:05:18,200 --> 00:05:19,679 Speaker 1: seven billion dollars in the hole again. 105 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:24,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, and as you said at the beginning that that 106 00:05:24,160 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 2: numbers based on a lot of assumptions. You know, we 107 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,280 Speaker 2: also need to remember we've got an investment fund that's 108 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:34,039 Speaker 2: designed to partially offset that, and our investment fund increased 109 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 2: by around four billion dollars last year. And we also, 110 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:42,800 Speaker 2: you know, are in the process of consulting and recommending 111 00:05:42,839 --> 00:05:46,240 Speaker 2: on levy increases. So levees have been held flat or 112 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:51,480 Speaker 2: really flat or reducing for the last decade. What costs 113 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:55,159 Speaker 2: have been increasing. And so this is a slow moving ship. 114 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:58,120 Speaker 2: And so you know, we need to make sure that 115 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,599 Speaker 2: over the long term we've got the settings right to 116 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 2: balance how much the scheme's costing and how much money 117 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:06,880 Speaker 2: was coming in. We've got coming in. 118 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:08,920 Speaker 1: We got too many people who are sick. I mean, 119 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: I'm just astonished every time I go to the doctor 120 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:15,719 Speaker 1: or hospital ACC people are falling over themselves with illness injuries. 121 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:18,760 Speaker 1: I'm fifty nine years old, Megan, I've never claimed ACC 122 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:20,480 Speaker 1: in my life. Am I some sort of frick? 123 00:06:22,360 --> 00:06:26,840 Speaker 2: Oh? Mike, you're certainly not a freak. You know. Interestingly 124 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: though you talk about people falling over. You know, falls 125 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,120 Speaker 2: are the most common cause of injuries in New Zealand 126 00:06:32,240 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 2: around forty percent. And so if we could all stop 127 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:36,440 Speaker 2: falling over. 128 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:44,480 Speaker 1: If we've learned nothing else out of the interview today, Megan, 129 00:06:45,320 --> 00:06:48,920 Speaker 1: stop falling over. Please have a good day, Meghan Main 130 00:06:49,000 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: who's the ACC chief executive. See so one, I'm not 131 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,440 Speaker 1: a freak, and you've got to stop calling me that 132 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: because Megan says, well, that's one woman's opinion, very important woman. 133 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:01,200 Speaker 2: I think it's the only person I've ever. 134 00:07:01,120 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: Done matter if she was on the radio hooed buy 135 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:05,000 Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of people. I'm not a freak and 136 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: you've gotta stop falling over. For more from The Mic 137 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 1: Asking Breakfast, listen live to news talks. It'd be from 138 00:07:11,240 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.