1 00:00:06,707 --> 00:00:10,467 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport Podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,747 --> 00:00:11,787 Speaker 1: from Newstalks EDB. 3 00:00:12,747 --> 00:00:15,467 Speaker 2: The All Black squad for the Rugby Championship is named 4 00:00:15,507 --> 00:00:19,387 Speaker 2: at three o'clock this afternoon. New Zealand Herald rugby writer 5 00:00:19,507 --> 00:00:22,267 Speaker 2: Gregor Paul is with us to discuss. Gregor, it's a 6 00:00:22,267 --> 00:00:25,547 Speaker 2: squad of thirty six. It was thirty two for the 7 00:00:25,587 --> 00:00:28,747 Speaker 2: tests against England and Fiji. Is it fair to say 8 00:00:28,787 --> 00:00:32,787 Speaker 2: that the original thirty two who were named will be 9 00:00:32,907 --> 00:00:35,947 Speaker 2: retained if they're fit? I mean, nobody has played their 10 00:00:35,987 --> 00:00:37,747 Speaker 2: way out of this team, have they. 11 00:00:39,147 --> 00:00:42,867 Speaker 3: Think anyone would necessarily have played their way out. However, 12 00:00:43,627 --> 00:00:46,667 Speaker 3: that doesn't necessarily mean that all thirty two of them 13 00:00:46,827 --> 00:00:51,187 Speaker 3: will be reclaimed because there are certain individuals who would 14 00:00:51,227 --> 00:00:54,027 Speaker 3: have thought are going to come back. For example, Simon, 15 00:00:57,307 --> 00:00:59,307 Speaker 3: he was originally going to be in the squad that 16 00:00:59,627 --> 00:01:03,347 Speaker 3: was injured, so he came out. They brought in Bell 17 00:01:03,427 --> 00:01:05,787 Speaker 3: was a replacements, so that might be one of the 18 00:01:05,827 --> 00:01:09,667 Speaker 3: thirty two who will Jordan is back fit, and you 19 00:01:09,667 --> 00:01:12,107 Speaker 3: know again he would have been in an original selection 20 00:01:12,187 --> 00:01:15,107 Speaker 3: if he'd been fit. I we'll have to see whether 21 00:01:15,747 --> 00:01:18,787 Speaker 3: he comes back in at the expense of an existing player. 22 00:01:19,707 --> 00:01:23,027 Speaker 3: Or whether he's an additional you know, outside back going 23 00:01:23,067 --> 00:01:25,987 Speaker 3: into the mix, and it will already depend on you know, 24 00:01:26,107 --> 00:01:28,587 Speaker 3: what kind of balance the selectors are going to feel 25 00:01:28,587 --> 00:01:31,427 Speaker 3: they need positionally to understand if there's going to be 26 00:01:31,467 --> 00:01:32,587 Speaker 3: any guys coming out. 27 00:01:33,027 --> 00:01:35,147 Speaker 2: Well, just on the Will Jordan one, if they add him, 28 00:01:35,187 --> 00:01:38,667 Speaker 2: that's still only six outside bags, isn't it, Clark not 29 00:01:38,787 --> 00:01:44,027 Speaker 2: our Piafitta race to layer Ed Jordan. They can afford 30 00:01:44,067 --> 00:01:47,267 Speaker 2: another outside back if they're adding four players, can't they? 31 00:01:47,787 --> 00:01:51,187 Speaker 3: They probably could, but they've got some you know, injury 32 00:01:51,347 --> 00:01:54,787 Speaker 3: concerns if you're going backwards and look back to Locke. 33 00:01:55,307 --> 00:01:58,587 Speaker 3: At the moment, Scott Barrett has been revealed I've had 34 00:01:58,667 --> 00:02:02,347 Speaker 3: surgery on a finger. The length of his recovery time 35 00:02:02,507 --> 00:02:05,787 Speaker 3: is unknown at the stage, or we haven't been told. Certainly, 36 00:02:06,747 --> 00:02:09,787 Speaker 3: Patrick Tupelotto, you didn't go to San Diego. They were 37 00:02:09,787 --> 00:02:13,187 Speaker 3: resting here after. You know, he had an incredible period 38 00:02:13,187 --> 00:02:15,907 Speaker 3: with his knee and back and forest and whatnot, so 39 00:02:16,507 --> 00:02:19,267 Speaker 3: they'll be a little bit careful about managing him. Still, 40 00:02:19,587 --> 00:02:22,667 Speaker 3: I would have thought, with what's happened with him, so 41 00:02:22,787 --> 00:02:26,587 Speaker 3: they might want to strengthen themselves around lock. They might not. 42 00:02:26,667 --> 00:02:30,067 Speaker 3: They might feel comfortable operating, you know, with the guys 43 00:02:30,107 --> 00:02:33,027 Speaker 3: that they've got with just three. Knowing that, I assume 44 00:02:33,107 --> 00:02:35,947 Speaker 3: Barrett will come back to full fitness reasonably quickly, so 45 00:02:35,987 --> 00:02:38,427 Speaker 3: they could probably carry three locks to argent through the 46 00:02:38,547 --> 00:02:43,267 Speaker 3: Argentina games and then get Barrett back. So it really 47 00:02:43,387 --> 00:02:46,867 Speaker 3: just does depend on where they feel they need strength 48 00:02:46,907 --> 00:02:49,227 Speaker 3: and dates across the thirty six players that they have. 49 00:02:49,667 --> 00:02:51,947 Speaker 2: It feels like Sam Dairy might be there though he 50 00:02:52,027 --> 00:02:55,907 Speaker 2: debut didn't he against fg over in San Diego. If 51 00:02:55,947 --> 00:03:00,507 Speaker 2: they are even mildly concerned about Lock that put Sam 52 00:03:00,587 --> 00:03:01,587 Speaker 2: Dairy in there, wouldn't they. 53 00:03:01,987 --> 00:03:04,107 Speaker 3: I think he'll certainly do the Yeah, I think that's 54 00:03:04,147 --> 00:03:06,707 Speaker 3: a given at the moment, given where they're at. They 55 00:03:06,747 --> 00:03:10,907 Speaker 3: would want injury cover for Scott Barrett certainly, and I 56 00:03:10,947 --> 00:03:14,067 Speaker 3: think they'll probably want to carry four locks in their 57 00:03:14,107 --> 00:03:19,107 Speaker 3: thirty six man squad anyway. And Sam Barry would appear 58 00:03:19,147 --> 00:03:21,347 Speaker 3: to be the fourth guy given that he was one 59 00:03:21,387 --> 00:03:24,187 Speaker 3: they called up to take the San Diego So yeah, 60 00:03:24,867 --> 00:03:25,827 Speaker 3: he'll definitely be there. 61 00:03:25,827 --> 00:03:29,467 Speaker 2: I would have thought what about Sam Kaine well with it. 62 00:03:30,307 --> 00:03:34,027 Speaker 3: Yeah. Look, Sam has been training with the squad pretty 63 00:03:34,067 --> 00:03:37,227 Speaker 3: much throughout the whole of July, I bumped into him 64 00:03:37,227 --> 00:03:39,587 Speaker 3: in a cafe, told me fully fit, he's been training 65 00:03:39,627 --> 00:03:42,867 Speaker 3: for most of the time the squad had been assembled. Look, 66 00:03:43,467 --> 00:03:47,067 Speaker 3: let's be clear, he's a world class player, and he's available, 67 00:03:47,147 --> 00:03:48,947 Speaker 3: and he's available until the end of the year. And 68 00:03:49,027 --> 00:03:51,227 Speaker 3: I know that Jason Ryan, the forward's coach, is a 69 00:03:51,347 --> 00:03:55,867 Speaker 3: huge Sam Kaine fan because he understands the value of 70 00:03:56,427 --> 00:04:00,027 Speaker 3: a heavy tackler, which is what Sam is. A highly 71 00:04:00,707 --> 00:04:05,067 Speaker 3: experienced professional with great leadership ability, really strong over the 72 00:04:05,067 --> 00:04:07,867 Speaker 3: ball at the breakdown. He's a great carrier of the 73 00:04:07,907 --> 00:04:11,387 Speaker 3: bomb in close quarters. He's maybe not the kind of 74 00:04:11,387 --> 00:04:14,107 Speaker 3: traditional New Zealand seven. He gets out into the open 75 00:04:14,187 --> 00:04:16,787 Speaker 3: and we you know, we see, you know, a long 76 00:04:16,907 --> 00:04:19,907 Speaker 3: striding ball playing seven, but he's really good at just 77 00:04:20,027 --> 00:04:24,147 Speaker 3: grinding out a couple of really difficult meters against bigamn one. 78 00:04:25,027 --> 00:04:27,227 Speaker 3: Going to be back in to the squad, and I'd 79 00:04:27,227 --> 00:04:31,147 Speaker 3: imagine if they think he's got enough game time behind him, 80 00:04:31,427 --> 00:04:33,347 Speaker 3: I think they'll want to get him on the bench 81 00:04:33,427 --> 00:04:35,427 Speaker 3: pretty quickly for the All Blacks and then back into 82 00:04:35,427 --> 00:04:38,787 Speaker 3: the starting system ready in time to go to South Africa. 83 00:04:38,867 --> 00:04:41,707 Speaker 2: Interesting, what about David Havili? Is there room for him? 84 00:04:41,707 --> 00:04:43,587 Speaker 2: They got four pretty good midfielders at the moment. 85 00:04:44,867 --> 00:04:47,947 Speaker 3: Again, it depends on where they want to part the 86 00:04:48,027 --> 00:04:52,547 Speaker 3: new The new players they did seem pretty keen on, 87 00:04:53,507 --> 00:04:55,987 Speaker 3: you know, like Razor would know David Havili pretty well. 88 00:04:56,027 --> 00:04:59,867 Speaker 3: He's a really versatile football plays that plays in the midfield. 89 00:05:00,067 --> 00:05:02,547 Speaker 3: He's played at full back, he can play at number 90 00:05:02,587 --> 00:05:05,347 Speaker 3: ten if needs be. Whether he can play their international 91 00:05:05,427 --> 00:05:09,627 Speaker 3: level not quite yet. So a guy of that level 92 00:05:09,827 --> 00:05:13,027 Speaker 3: of versatility, and he's got he's got a good level 93 00:05:13,027 --> 00:05:16,187 Speaker 3: of experience as well. He's played you know, twenty plus 94 00:05:16,227 --> 00:05:19,067 Speaker 3: test matches. He've been a kind of guy that they 95 00:05:19,507 --> 00:05:22,387 Speaker 3: potentially for a rugby championship, want to carry with them. 96 00:05:22,427 --> 00:05:24,867 Speaker 3: So he's embedded with the system with the team. He's 97 00:05:24,907 --> 00:05:28,067 Speaker 3: been training with them. By the way, throughout July, there 98 00:05:28,067 --> 00:05:31,387 Speaker 3: was a whole sort of entourage of extras that were 99 00:05:31,427 --> 00:05:34,187 Speaker 3: continually with the team throughout July. He was one of them. 100 00:05:34,227 --> 00:05:37,267 Speaker 3: George Bauer being another, Sam King, Will Jordan, All these 101 00:05:37,267 --> 00:05:40,027 Speaker 3: guys have been with the team. So it's potential for 102 00:05:40,427 --> 00:05:42,867 Speaker 3: David to come in because inevitably planning, we know it's 103 00:05:42,867 --> 00:05:45,267 Speaker 3: going to be injured a little bit. Had a guy 104 00:05:45,347 --> 00:05:47,947 Speaker 3: training with them who they trust and is ready to 105 00:05:48,547 --> 00:05:50,507 Speaker 3: you know, up to speed with how they want to play, 106 00:05:50,587 --> 00:05:52,587 Speaker 3: what his role is likely to be. If he's needed. 107 00:05:53,227 --> 00:05:55,387 Speaker 3: It's good to have them there rather than calling them 108 00:05:55,387 --> 00:05:58,307 Speaker 3: in calls and having to get them up to speed quickly. 109 00:05:58,427 --> 00:06:02,387 Speaker 3: So yeah, he if the if the balance suits them, 110 00:06:02,507 --> 00:06:04,427 Speaker 3: I think he's the sort of guy that would would 111 00:06:04,427 --> 00:06:06,827 Speaker 3: cover a lot of options for them if he comes back. 112 00:06:06,667 --> 00:06:09,627 Speaker 2: In half back. I think we can assume, can't we 113 00:06:09,707 --> 00:06:12,187 Speaker 2: that cam Royguard still isn't really I think they were 114 00:06:12,187 --> 00:06:14,507 Speaker 2: talking about the end of year term a tour rather 115 00:06:14,547 --> 00:06:19,267 Speaker 2: for cam Royguard. So let's say TJ is fit again. 116 00:06:20,227 --> 00:06:22,947 Speaker 2: What is the picking order in New Zealand half backs. 117 00:06:23,027 --> 00:06:25,307 Speaker 2: Let's leave Royguard out of it. What's the picking order 118 00:06:25,387 --> 00:06:26,827 Speaker 2: of those who are fit at the moment? 119 00:06:27,347 --> 00:06:32,547 Speaker 3: Well, my taking order is Quarters Latima one and I 120 00:06:32,587 --> 00:06:37,987 Speaker 3: would go Noah Hawsum, t TJ. Perrinara three, Finley Christie four. 121 00:06:38,107 --> 00:06:41,587 Speaker 3: If it was up to me. Where would they be sitting? 122 00:06:41,787 --> 00:06:44,747 Speaker 3: I think they might have got enough confidence in Quarters 123 00:06:45,107 --> 00:06:48,307 Speaker 3: Ratama to start him. But whether they do start them 124 00:06:48,307 --> 00:06:51,187 Speaker 3: regularly I don't know, because they probably like the experience 125 00:06:51,227 --> 00:06:56,307 Speaker 3: of TJ Peer and his competitiveness, his leadership, qualities. These 126 00:06:56,347 --> 00:06:59,267 Speaker 3: are all valuable things. So I think they probably still 127 00:06:59,307 --> 00:07:02,467 Speaker 3: see TJ. Parrianara's number one because I think he started 128 00:07:02,507 --> 00:07:05,947 Speaker 3: the season is number one, and just because he's been injured, 129 00:07:05,947 --> 00:07:08,627 Speaker 3: I don't think think they would is evidence to say 130 00:07:08,627 --> 00:07:11,587 Speaker 3: he's no longer the number one, but clearly there's going 131 00:07:11,627 --> 00:07:14,467 Speaker 3: to be a live situation there. Rattam, there's no number two, 132 00:07:15,307 --> 00:07:18,267 Speaker 3: and Christy would be the number three, and I imagine 133 00:07:18,267 --> 00:07:22,947 Speaker 3: that Noah Hawsum drops out when TG Pernara comes back in, 134 00:07:23,267 --> 00:07:27,747 Speaker 3: when roygun arrives whenever that is probably later this year. Cheapers, 135 00:07:27,987 --> 00:07:30,907 Speaker 3: you know, you've got what five six guys who you 136 00:07:30,947 --> 00:07:32,947 Speaker 3: know are going to be competing for a birthday, and 137 00:07:32,987 --> 00:07:35,667 Speaker 3: I think that pecking order will remain fluid. 138 00:07:36,187 --> 00:07:38,307 Speaker 2: Do you think we'll see Bowden, Barrett's staff and the 139 00:07:38,347 --> 00:07:40,507 Speaker 2: teen jersey at all in the Rugby Championship? 140 00:07:41,267 --> 00:07:45,347 Speaker 3: Well, potentially that's something that may happen, you know, while 141 00:07:45,347 --> 00:07:47,587 Speaker 3: they because they're going to rest and retake McKinsey at 142 00:07:47,587 --> 00:07:49,627 Speaker 3: some point. I don't think they want to do that 143 00:07:49,667 --> 00:07:51,267 Speaker 3: too much because I think you want to keep a 144 00:07:51,347 --> 00:07:53,747 Speaker 3: number young, number ten young in the sense that he's 145 00:07:53,787 --> 00:07:56,827 Speaker 3: not got a lot of experience I probably want to 146 00:07:56,907 --> 00:08:00,027 Speaker 3: keep him on the field, keep learning, keep growing, because 147 00:08:00,027 --> 00:08:04,187 Speaker 3: it's about understanding your craft. So Broder and I suspect 148 00:08:04,227 --> 00:08:05,667 Speaker 3: will be a guy that there. I don't think they'll 149 00:08:05,707 --> 00:08:09,627 Speaker 3: be looking to put a competitive element into that situation 150 00:08:09,747 --> 00:08:11,787 Speaker 3: at the moment. There's no real need to do that. 151 00:08:12,507 --> 00:08:14,827 Speaker 3: But if they want to give you McKinsey a week off, 152 00:08:14,907 --> 00:08:16,747 Speaker 3: then Barrett would probably be the guy that they would 153 00:08:16,747 --> 00:08:18,547 Speaker 3: start at number ten. But look, they know what they've 154 00:08:18,547 --> 00:08:20,947 Speaker 3: gotten Barrett. I don't think they need to start a 155 00:08:20,987 --> 00:08:24,467 Speaker 3: live process of putting pressure on McKinsey, you know, because 156 00:08:24,507 --> 00:08:26,867 Speaker 3: he's playing pretty well as it is. I don't think 157 00:08:26,867 --> 00:08:29,867 Speaker 3: he needs that right now, external pressure with the sense 158 00:08:30,067 --> 00:08:33,707 Speaker 3: they're trying to grow a veteran number ten alongside and 159 00:08:34,147 --> 00:08:37,067 Speaker 3: they're lucky because Bonds is a brilliant player. And if 160 00:08:37,067 --> 00:08:38,947 Speaker 3: they need a number ten that's capable of playing a 161 00:08:38,987 --> 00:08:41,547 Speaker 3: Test match called off the bat, he'd be the guy 162 00:08:41,587 --> 00:08:42,507 Speaker 3: that could do it for them. 163 00:08:42,827 --> 00:08:44,707 Speaker 2: And when they come together as a thirty six with 164 00:08:44,787 --> 00:08:47,387 Speaker 2: the coaching staff etc. Get ready for the Rugby Championship, 165 00:08:47,427 --> 00:08:50,387 Speaker 2: given what they learned during the two England Test matches, 166 00:08:50,467 --> 00:08:52,907 Speaker 2: let's both feed you to one side in the England 167 00:08:52,907 --> 00:08:54,827 Speaker 2: Test matches. What do you think the main areas of 168 00:08:54,907 --> 00:08:57,987 Speaker 2: focus will be for Razer and his coaching staff as 169 00:08:57,987 --> 00:09:00,547 Speaker 2: he prepares this group for the Rugby Championship. 170 00:09:01,467 --> 00:09:04,027 Speaker 3: I think the boards need be a bit more confrontational 171 00:09:04,307 --> 00:09:08,627 Speaker 3: and aggressive in traveling north to south, around you know, 172 00:09:08,827 --> 00:09:13,587 Speaker 3: around the middle of the field, going directly through forward packs, 173 00:09:13,867 --> 00:09:16,547 Speaker 3: playing a little bit of continuity there, whether it's you know, 174 00:09:16,667 --> 00:09:20,147 Speaker 3: using quick feet, quick passing, changing the point of the attack, 175 00:09:20,227 --> 00:09:24,707 Speaker 3: but certainly putting defenses backwards, you know, through the ball 176 00:09:24,827 --> 00:09:28,547 Speaker 3: carrying and ability of the All Black forward pack to 177 00:09:28,627 --> 00:09:30,427 Speaker 3: do that. We didn't really see a lot of that 178 00:09:30,547 --> 00:09:32,947 Speaker 3: against England. I think they need to be a bit 179 00:09:32,987 --> 00:09:36,227 Speaker 3: more clinical when they you know, when they create half opportunities. 180 00:09:36,227 --> 00:09:38,147 Speaker 3: There were quite a lot of points they left out 181 00:09:38,267 --> 00:09:41,147 Speaker 3: on the field. And I think the third area that 182 00:09:41,187 --> 00:09:46,707 Speaker 3: they weren't particularly good at is marrying an accurate kicking 183 00:09:46,747 --> 00:09:49,667 Speaker 3: game into the rest of the game plan. They seemed 184 00:09:49,667 --> 00:09:51,907 Speaker 3: to kick a little bit with you know, no real 185 00:09:51,987 --> 00:09:54,667 Speaker 3: plan around what they were trying to do. There didn't 186 00:09:54,667 --> 00:09:56,747 Speaker 3: feel like they were really spot on with what their 187 00:09:56,787 --> 00:10:00,307 Speaker 3: intentions were, what their execution was, you know, was trying 188 00:10:00,387 --> 00:10:02,307 Speaker 3: to do. And I think when you when you end 189 00:10:02,387 --> 00:10:05,067 Speaker 3: up playing teams like Argentina and South Africa in particular, 190 00:10:05,227 --> 00:10:06,907 Speaker 3: that that's a part of you get you've got to 191 00:10:06,947 --> 00:10:09,587 Speaker 3: get right. So these have been the three three elements 192 00:10:09,627 --> 00:10:11,907 Speaker 3: I think they'll want to get sharper. 193 00:10:11,547 --> 00:10:14,347 Speaker 2: On always enjoy your insight, Gregor. Thanks so much for 194 00:10:14,387 --> 00:10:17,627 Speaker 2: taking the time this afternoon, my Gregor, Paul there. You 195 00:10:17,747 --> 00:10:19,907 Speaker 2: read them in the NZ Herald, insid Herald dot co 196 00:10:19,947 --> 00:10:22,427 Speaker 2: dot nz, or just buy the paper. Three o'clock this 197 00:10:22,507 --> 00:10:25,827 Speaker 2: afternoon is when that team is named squad of thirty 198 00:10:25,907 --> 00:10:29,067 Speaker 2: six for the Rugby Championship couple of tests against Argentina 199 00:10:29,427 --> 00:10:33,347 Speaker 2: both in New Zealand, tests away two in South Africa, 200 00:10:33,987 --> 00:10:37,467 Speaker 2: then home and away against Australia. So six Rugby Championship tests, 201 00:10:37,827 --> 00:10:39,867 Speaker 2: thirty six men in that squad. You might have caught 202 00:10:39,907 --> 00:10:43,347 Speaker 2: the news yesterday Scott Barrett needed surgery after one of 203 00:10:43,347 --> 00:10:45,227 Speaker 2: the recent test matches. I think it was the Figi Test, 204 00:10:45,427 --> 00:10:47,587 Speaker 2: so he's in doubt for at least the first Rugby 205 00:10:47,667 --> 00:10:51,107 Speaker 2: Championship Test. Other than that, I think everybody's pretty much 206 00:10:51,147 --> 00:10:53,987 Speaker 2: good to go. TJ Peinalo, we understand is going to 207 00:10:53,987 --> 00:10:56,067 Speaker 2: be all right, so I presume he'll come back in 208 00:10:56,307 --> 00:10:59,067 Speaker 2: thirty six names. We'll have them for you in our 209 00:10:59,107 --> 00:11:00,267 Speaker 2: news at three. 210 00:11:01,147 --> 00:11:04,347 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine, listen live 211 00:11:04,467 --> 00:11:07,747 Speaker 1: to News Talk z B weekends a midday, or follow 212 00:11:07,787 --> 00:11:09,387 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio