Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks ed.
Speaker 2: B and welcome back to news Talk, said B. I'm
Speaker 2: Tim Bevers. This is the Weekend Collected by the way,
Speaker 2: if you missed it, We've had a couple of stonken
Speaker 2: hours of a broadcast and were gon't say so myself.
Speaker 2: The politics. We had a chat with Chris Hipkins around
Speaker 2: just what they're going to be doing looking at to
Speaker 2: get back comparing the whole capital gains tax sort of thing.
Speaker 2: And also with the mayor of Central Hawk's Bay, Alex Walker,
Speaker 2: about the Mari Wards and all that sort of thing.
Speaker 2: So that was a fun hour for talkback on the
Speaker 2: Politics hour and for interviews, should I say, and also
Speaker 2: just gone now as the Health Hub with doctor John Campill,
Speaker 2: which is great fun. And the fun continues of course
Speaker 2: because this is smart Money and joining us in the studio.
Speaker 2: I used to have long introductions written for my guess,
Speaker 2: but then you sort of get to know him, don't
Speaker 2: you when the audience get to know him. So I
Speaker 2: just said coming up to Max. I should have said
Speaker 2: coming up as Max Whitehead the last hour, I just
Speaker 2: said coming up as actually because I thought for a
Speaker 2: second it is white Head not white House? Who was
Speaker 2: the morals campaigner?
Speaker 3: You've always had trouble with that. It's some guy and
Speaker 3: Wong and you he wasn't it? You politician used to
Speaker 3: get confused with too. Maks Bradford used to call me.
Speaker 2: Oh that's oh gosh, you've got a He was like,
Speaker 2: keep a grudge.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: I think where was he? The MP for Tataware or something?
Speaker 2: I think Max Breckfeeling it was your MP.
Speaker 3: I think wasn't it.
Speaker 2: Somewhere near right to Earl when I was there? Yeah? Anyway,
Speaker 2: I am very very good.
Speaker 3: I've been listening to your last hour. That was really good.
Speaker 3: A lot of politics Phil spilled over into that area too,
Speaker 3: But I thought you and John Reddy were pumping it.
Speaker 3: And there I heard I heard my call come out
Speaker 3: of there?
Speaker 2: What what was that?
Speaker 3: The question was one of the newers come in saying
Speaker 3: why why medical? You know?
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, actually that's right. Yeah. So this person was saying,
Speaker 2: why do I have to get a medical stuff every
Speaker 2: time I'm seck et cetera. And I thought we should
Speaker 2: throw that to you. Why not you here? You're an
Speaker 2: employment consultant the white Head group. I eight hundred something.
Speaker 3: Did you hear that, folks? I eight hundred something? Actually
Speaker 3: twenty four seven ninety three ninety three. That's that easy.
Speaker 2: Actually would be funny. I wonder what the alpha numerics
Speaker 2: Thatt have corid for something else started to just say,
Speaker 2: literally eight hundred something.
Speaker 3: Now makes your questions? Is this? What was it? Big timer? Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it was the medical stuff.
Speaker 3: You got it.
Speaker 2: So the question was bored in is why do I
Speaker 2: have to get one every time? It's expensive? Blah blah blah,
Speaker 2: And obviously his employer doesn't trust him.
Speaker 3: And I thought John answered it quite well. The reality is,
Speaker 3: because there's some people over there put a lot of
Speaker 3: bers into it, they're not really sick, and so the
Speaker 3: employers have a right in law to say, give me
Speaker 3: some legitimate proof you're sick. But what's happened?
Speaker 2: Actually, okay, quickly, just while I got that thought, legitimate proof,
Speaker 2: if you sent them a bucket that showed you'd been sick,
Speaker 2: would that be enough. Here's here's something I produced five
Speaker 2: minutes ago. Here's the I mean, there's some evidence.
Speaker 3: Ah no, a bucket full of spew going that. Goodness
Speaker 3: me that it could be anybody that legal producers got
Speaker 3: a little kiddy. It could be ill. Then that could
Speaker 3: be that Dad could use it for going off, for
Speaker 3: getting a couple of days off ill of work.
Speaker 2: Don't give our ideas, by the way, he actually, but seriously,
Speaker 2: is it a question of trust that really if your employers,
Speaker 2: I mean there'd be some really large organizations or just
Speaker 2: have a blanket policy, which if you are working on
Speaker 2: minimum wage or you're a sort of you know, not
Speaker 2: anything less than thirty bucks an hour or something, you
Speaker 2: might feel, oh gosh, that's ridiculous. So I have to
Speaker 2: I'm going to take a day off work. But they
Speaker 2: don't trust me. What do we know about the general
Speaker 2: practice around that sort of thing?
Speaker 3: Because employers have nothing nothing, They can't they can't challenge
Speaker 3: you and say, hang on you, we're not sick, because
Speaker 3: they're not doctors, and so they must put them to
Speaker 3: the doctor. But the problems of doctors, it's just what John,
Speaker 3: your doctor, John said to you, is that the doctors
Speaker 3: have to look at someone who's well and then writers
Speaker 3: a certificate to say they're unwill And that's where it
Speaker 3: just sits uncomfortable. Most doctors just sign them off.
Speaker 2: What are most employers?
Speaker 3: Employers do actually we're not very happy of doctors. I
Speaker 3: can tell you, Oh really, why well they just sign anything.
Speaker 3: Oh so the rat bags who are having a go
Speaker 3: what about the doctor and the doctor signs it off?
Speaker 2: What about? I mean, but do most employers insist on
Speaker 2: a medical certificate for everyone from day one? Because I mean,
Speaker 2: I would think that if you are a good employee
Speaker 2: with a good employment record, you call up, you say
Speaker 2: you're sick, I wouldn't think much of your employer if
Speaker 2: they were like, well, give me your medical still it
Speaker 2: when you've worked for a year or so without a SICKI.
Speaker 3: Gets better than that term. Some people do five years,
Speaker 3: not one sick day. Then they have a sick day
Speaker 3: and the employer will go, you can take two days
Speaker 3: in and it's not a problem because you've been so
Speaker 3: loyal and good to us, no worries. So yeah, there
Speaker 3: is some good employers out there that will recognize that,
Speaker 3: and I would say majority of them.
Speaker 2: But legally, if they want to, if they if they've
Speaker 2: got a massive workforce and they don't trust any of you,
Speaker 2: they can say you want to be you want to
Speaker 2: take a day off, we need that medical certificate. Otherwise
Speaker 2: you're not getting paid.
Speaker 3: You got it. Otherwise they've got no rights to actually
Speaker 3: challenge in an individual at all that they're actually well.
Speaker 2: What would they do if you didn't provide that? Would
Speaker 2: they just say, well, you've just taken a day of
Speaker 2: leave or something, or day or day without party? What
Speaker 2: do they do?
Speaker 3: Well, it's very very difficult for an employee to say
Speaker 3: you were actually well unless they've got evidence of them
Speaker 3: and there has been this racism, had their photo taken
Speaker 3: or something like that.
Speaker 2: Well, obviously the rule would be if you have to
Speaker 2: provide a medical stiff at them. What happens if you don't?
Speaker 2: So what do they do?
Speaker 3: Well, it's very little they can do. So they can
Speaker 3: challenge the employee and go and look what is actually
Speaker 3: wrong with you? And that's what they're encouraged to do. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I know in a freezing works where I was working
Speaker 3: there in the department, that's what where you got the
Speaker 3: people to do. So if anyone had a funny day
Speaker 3: off like Friday or Monday morning, then you'd get them
Speaker 3: in and saying are you all right? Is there anything
Speaker 3: we can do to give you support? Is there any
Speaker 3: illness there that perhaps maybe you're going to pass it
Speaker 3: on to the workmates or anything, and just hang on.
Speaker 2: That's throwing it's on our heads for me because you
Speaker 2: say that they can ask for a medical certificate, but
Speaker 2: if you don't provide one, it sounds like it's not
Speaker 2: open and shut for the employer to say I'm not paying. Okay,
Speaker 2: so they can ask for a medical stufficate, but it
Speaker 2: doesn't sound like there's a lot backing that up.
Speaker 3: Yeah. No, there's not a lot really backing it up.
Speaker 3: But that is a last resort and employer has entitled
Speaker 3: for it, and if you don't provide it, they can
Speaker 3: discipline you for not giving the medical certificate.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, what discipline might might they be a warning?
Speaker 3: Probably? Okay, it's the worst discipline you could possibly.
Speaker 2: Get, unleas it's sex for the best or something.
Speaker 3: At least it's happened over a whole string of times.
Speaker 3: And then they go right, O, well that's a dismissal.
Speaker 2: Okay, so they can't actually, so they can't. Okay, that's good.
Speaker 2: I was just trying to get to the remedies. So
Speaker 2: they can ask for medical stiff get they're entitled to ask. Fine,
Speaker 2: if you don't provide one, you might get a warning.
Speaker 2: Then you get another warning. But they can't actually just
Speaker 2: dock your pay or take a day take a day
Speaker 2: off your leave.
Speaker 3: Not not just like that. They've got to have genuine
Speaker 3: proof that you're unwell. Now, look, I tell you the
Speaker 3: circumstances are coming up now. So a person's been seen
Speaker 3: at the airport flying in and he's just had a
Speaker 3: week off ill. And so the employee said, you're not
Speaker 3: getting sick paid because that you have not been genuinelyly
Speaker 3: you've been on holiday. And so the guy actually went
Speaker 3: and took it to the court and won it because
Speaker 3: he said the holiday was very good for my illness,
Speaker 3: so I took a time off. They've been seen on
Speaker 3: fishing boats fishing for the day and their workers come
Speaker 3: back and said, well, actually it was therapeutic for me
Speaker 3: to go fishing. I needed that time. That's bloody well,
Speaker 3: you get this mental illness. Now people seem to think
Speaker 3: they got a right to have a day off.
Speaker 2: Well, that's it does raise the interesting question is what
Speaker 2: is a legitimate activity you can do while you are
Speaker 2: officially sick. So if you happen to go down to
Speaker 2: your local cafe for a slap up binge of missus
Speaker 2: Meghan's Pie Shop.
Speaker 3: Missus Meggans is the reference to.
Speaker 2: Blackadder, So you could do that and say, look, I
Speaker 2: was sick, but yeah, I just wanted to have some
Speaker 2: hearty food at my favorite cafe to make myself feel
Speaker 2: better and back off. Yep, what about I decided to go?
Speaker 3: Of course, you know, if it's if it doesn't fit
Speaker 3: the remedy that you're putting to it, let's getting a
Speaker 3: little ridiculous. And I think the employee could challenge you
Speaker 3: on that.
Speaker 2: Can you because you can take time off of stress?
Speaker 2: I guess can you? Can you take sakifa? Well not,
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's people think out there and now I listen, folks
Speaker 3: in now here, you don't have the rights to take
Speaker 3: time off of stress. Leave. It's not automatic. If you
Speaker 3: go to your doctor and the doctor says, my goodness,
Speaker 3: you do need that time off, then yeah you can,
Speaker 3: and a lot of doctors will.
Speaker 2: But then suddenly Garret flying to the Gold Coast might
Speaker 2: see as eroding that trust.
Speaker 3: Well wouldn't it be.
Speaker 2: I mean, if seriously, if you're stressed, and let's let's
Speaker 2: not say Gold Coast, let's not encourage any more. Australian tourism.
Speaker 2: Let's say you decide to fly down to Queenstown and
Speaker 2: somebody sees you down there and said, yeah, I've been
Speaker 2: really stressed and I went down to stay with some
Speaker 2: friends or because I need some time out. That's legitile.
Speaker 2: Actually that to me, I can convince myself that, well.
Speaker 3: I'm always I used to get very very stressed. I
Speaker 3: don't do it so much now on a Monday morning
Speaker 3: after a big, long, long, long, long weekend, and then
Speaker 3: my heart would be pumping far to the normal because
Speaker 3: it's probably full of alcohol from the whole weekend trying
Speaker 3: to get over it. I've got a thumping headache. I'm
Speaker 3: not very happy and I'm stressed.
Speaker 2: Is this Max talking or just to your imagining a
Speaker 2: particular scenario.
Speaker 3: Max when he was younger?
Speaker 2: Oh right, really, I've lived.
Speaker 3: I've lived. Yes, good on you.
Speaker 2: Hey, you can give us a call of if you'd
Speaker 2: like to pick Max's brain about that. It was a
Speaker 2: bit of a hijack of the topic because it came
Speaker 2: up in our medical hour with doctor John Cameron, just
Speaker 2: about medical stificates, and I thought, you know, we got you.
Speaker 2: It's a good one now because we're going to get
Speaker 2: onto having a bit of a chat about the Uber
Speaker 2: contractor versus employee case. But just firstly though, because this
Speaker 2: might not be such a lengthy topic, but.
Speaker 3: I have.
Speaker 2: There's been a bit of chat around in the employment
Speaker 2: in the recruiting space about AI and cvs and all
Speaker 2: that sort of stuff, and there's even been the question
Speaker 2: about whether cvs are really in use as much as
Speaker 2: they used to be, But they surely must still be
Speaker 2: there because if an employer doesn't know someone, you want
Speaker 2: a CV, don't you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And look, the good thing is like you can
Speaker 3: go on LinkedIn and generally if people are registered on LinkedIn,
Speaker 3: you can get their work history, which is really important.
Speaker 3: But there's two things of cvs now.
Speaker 2: Is LinkedIn the pretty much the de facto default you
Speaker 2: beiquitous like the Facebook for cvs as it well, No.
Speaker 3: The LinkedIn's just a really good tool for anyone to
Speaker 3: look at somebody's work history, to have a look at
Speaker 3: them as an individual, what they've achieved, what they've gone through.
Speaker 3: So if you want to build up your profile anywhere,
Speaker 3: use LinkedIn, folks, because it really is good because employers
Speaker 3: do look at them out there. Now. If you're not
Speaker 3: registered on there, a lot of people. Not then the
Speaker 3: employee doesn't get a glimpse. And you do need a CV.
Speaker 3: CV is really important if you're going to go for
Speaker 3: a job. Now the CV, keep it minimal. Don't need
Speaker 3: to go for pages and pages and pages. How wonderful
Speaker 3: you are?
Speaker 2: What if you are wonderful?
Speaker 4: Though?
Speaker 2: What if you've just got so many strings to your
Speaker 2: bow that you just have to you know, that's the thing.
Speaker 2: What do you leave and what you leave aout look?
Speaker 3: I can just imagine yours. Yeah, from conducting an orchestra
Speaker 3: to been on this show, plus what you go law degree?
Speaker 3: It could go on.
Speaker 2: Three sentences and that's all I know.
Speaker 3: Oh you're a father, which must be even there more challenging.
Speaker 2: Well, the reason I mentioned is because and I wonder
Speaker 2: if this is for I'd be curious to know what
Speaker 2: Christopher Luxon had on his CV right throughout his career
Speaker 2: but now on LinkedIn. If you have a look at
Speaker 2: his CV, he traces his whole employment history, which starts
Speaker 2: from I think he was a porter at the Crown
Speaker 2: Plaza in christ Church. He was a part time flip
Speaker 2: burgers at McDonald's I think, And he lists the small
Speaker 2: jobs and you can trace his whole career up to
Speaker 2: when he was at Unilever, I think, and then Prime minister.
Speaker 2: But he puts everything in. But I'm curious to know
Speaker 2: whether when he was, say middle management or going for
Speaker 2: those Unilever jobs, whether he had the McDonald's in there
Speaker 2: or whether he shoved that back.
Speaker 3: And I wouldn't put that in there. So the key to
Speaker 3: going to a CV is less is more, so you
Speaker 3: really just summarize it. Now with him, he would come
Speaker 3: with a reputation. Now, of course he did a little
Speaker 3: stint at the New Zealand you might remember that when
Speaker 3: you missed that one.
Speaker 2: I think that's in there. Yeah, yeah, I think.
Speaker 3: It would be. But you can imagine he would only
Speaker 3: mention the corporate jobs and his background.
Speaker 2: Now there's too no, No, he didn't. He mentioned everything.
Speaker 3: The CV should contain two things, your work history. Just
Speaker 3: don't go back to forever and ever because some old
Speaker 3: people like me, you'd full up pages of them. So
Speaker 3: you go back a little way now. Right now people
Speaker 3: are interested in his background because has he actually lived
Speaker 3: a life. If he's flip Burgers, well I would say
Speaker 3: that's excellent.
Speaker 2: Well that's why I wonder whether he put that in
Speaker 2: when he went into politics. Of course it shows Oh
Speaker 2: so you reckon that when he was on the corporate ladder.
Speaker 2: Less relevant, it's an interesting one.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if you've got to run an airline, you don't
Speaker 3: need to say off flip Burgers because that really doesn't
Speaker 3: spin the wheels for anyone making the decision to a
Speaker 3: point you over someone else.
Speaker 2: It depends. So I had a job as a tourist
Speaker 2: guide when I was sixteen at Rainbow Springs and wrote
Speaker 2: a RUA and I guess if you're going for a
Speaker 2: job where you're communicating, would you put that in?
Speaker 3: Ah?
Speaker 2: Would you leave it out?
Speaker 3: Particularly your job? Yeah? Yeah, you have to entertain these people.
Speaker 3: You actually have to encourage. Yeah, well you do and
Speaker 3: right now you do. So, I mean that would be
Speaker 3: relevant to what you do today. And the other thing
Speaker 3: I was going to say to people, you know, your
Speaker 3: CV is not the only tool. If you've got a
Speaker 3: job like teams and your applying, say for a radio show,
Speaker 3: well then you obviously need an audio or perhaps perhaps
Speaker 3: someone for TV. You want to have video. Now, Look,
Speaker 3: videos are very important. So if you're going to brush
Speaker 3: up on anything, get your presentation skills good because a
Speaker 3: lot of people now are interviewed on zoom. So I've
Speaker 3: been talking to an HR person just in research for
Speaker 3: this and they said, Yep, a lot of them are
Speaker 3: zoomed in and zoomed out. Yep, we'd bring them in
Speaker 3: or teams in her case. But yeah, so you really
Speaker 3: do need to get your skills right for that as well,
Speaker 3: and learn to be more sinc and give direct answers
Speaker 3: very quickly and succinctly and cover a lot of ground.
Speaker 2: We'd love to hear from you, actually, what did you
Speaker 2: what did you leave out of your CV? What was it?
Speaker 2: What did you put in when you're putting together a
Speaker 2: CV for a job. Give us a call on O
Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty ten eighty. We'd love to hear
Speaker 2: from you. Here's just before we go to the break.
Speaker 2: Here's Luxeon's Christopher Luckxon's history and it goes right back
Speaker 2: to being a paper deliverer for the Howerck and Puck
Speaker 2: a ring of times okay in nineteen eighty two. Did
Speaker 2: that for a year by the look of it. Then
Speaker 2: he was a staff member at McDonald's part time. Then
Speaker 2: he was a concierge and porter at the Park Royal
Speaker 2: don't worry. That was going forever. Then there's a whole
Speaker 2: bunch of things he did at UNILEVERA In fact, he
Speaker 2: lists one two, three, four, five, six, seven, eight, nine ten,
Speaker 2: which starts at management trainee, to brand manager for a
Speaker 2: New Zealand, then to Australia and then to president and
Speaker 2: CEO and for Canada at Unilever, and then he goes
Speaker 2: in New Zealand. But he starts. I just thought it
Speaker 2: was interesting that he starts with paper deliverer for the
Speaker 2: Howard can Packer rang oft times and staff members.
Speaker 3: See. I like that, I really really like that. Well, see,
Speaker 3: I would say there's a real man who's experienced a
Speaker 3: bit of real life. Too often I see people at
Speaker 3: the top who really have no understanding or understand or
Speaker 3: perhaps even feelings for people at the bottom.
Speaker 2: So do we like that in his CV? I do,
Speaker 2: But so we don't leave that out.
Speaker 3: No, no, But for that job he is prime minister.
Speaker 2: Oh gotcha? Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah. If I was looking to be the CEO of
Speaker 3: you know, in New Zealand, no, I wouldn't be interested.
Speaker 2: Well, I mean you might be slightly interested.
Speaker 3: Two things I never got this out. Two things you've
Speaker 3: got to get is your work experience and also your
Speaker 3: achievements very important? In your achievements, what have you chieved?
Speaker 3: And you're going to be able to support that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, look we want your cause as well. I
Speaker 2: one hundred and eighty ten eighty text nine nine two
Speaker 2: What would you leave in or out of your CV?
Speaker 2: And actually would you trust AI to generate your CV
Speaker 2: because they say apparently that they can tell when a
Speaker 2: CV is AI generator.
Speaker 3: I would no doubt.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure they could actually, but it depends. If
Speaker 2: you've just said, make me a CV, then maybe they can.
Speaker 3: But it's very clever. I mean, I use it quite
Speaker 3: a lot, but actually make me a CV. Yeah, but
Speaker 3: for goodness sake, checks them folks, because it's they have
Speaker 3: impurities right through.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, if you actually tell you what AI
Speaker 2: is really good for, you just say this is my CV.
Speaker 2: You do it all yourself, and you'd say, just tidy
Speaker 2: this up for clarity and spell it's amazing and it
Speaker 2: is not too bad, so anyway, and then change the
Speaker 2: formatting so people don't say I recognize that formatting from
Speaker 2: chat GPT anyway. Eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty
Speaker 2: What do you leave in or what do you take
Speaker 2: out of your CV? Or do you leave it all
Speaker 2: in there and tell them exactly how many bottles of
Speaker 2: milk you delivered in your suburban milk round for three
Speaker 2: years when you're a teenager. It's twenty four past five.
Speaker 2: News Talk ZIB. Yes, News Talk z B. It is
Speaker 2: indeed on with Max Whitehead is an employment guru and
Speaker 2: we're talking about CV. What are you leaving? What do
Speaker 2: you take out? Or do you just shove it all
Speaker 2: in there and let them work it out for themselves.
Speaker 2: I guess that's not the answer. No, But anyway, let's
Speaker 2: take some calls.
Speaker 3: Matthew Hi, Hello, Matthew.
Speaker 1: Hi there.
Speaker 4: I had a question about would you on a CV
Speaker 4: would you put your references details on that CV if
Speaker 4: you've given them a heads up? Or would you write
Speaker 4: referees available on request?
Speaker 3: Oh? An interesting question. I think it's a point of
Speaker 3: view of what you would think. I think I put
Speaker 3: it on request. You can come back to me and
Speaker 3: I will give you those referees and plus then you
Speaker 3: can give them a heads up. Someone's coming after you
Speaker 3: to ask you some questions. It just gives you some
Speaker 3: degree of control and I think that would be better
Speaker 3: for you.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I've I've just moved to that and sometimes
Speaker 4: I just if you're in a job a long time,
Speaker 4: sometimes the old references are kind of long gone, especially
Speaker 4: as a super much or something. I was wondering, what
Speaker 4: do you what do you look for with a work reference, Like,
Speaker 4: what would an employer want to they want to speak to?
Speaker 4: Essentially two things they Yeah, they're chipping in for you,
Speaker 4: aren't they.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Two things they look for is a work experience
Speaker 3: and you know what level of work you've done and
Speaker 3: sort of who you've done and work with. You know
Speaker 3: who's been your previous employer. And the other thing is
Speaker 3: what have you achieved while you were there, because they're
Speaker 3: going to measure you up to say is this person
Speaker 3: innovative or are they going to follow the rules or
Speaker 3: are they going to go off and be a loan
Speaker 3: you know, lone wolf. So there's a lot of things
Speaker 3: in there that they'll try and read in between the lines.
Speaker 3: So my view is keep it short and sweet, but
Speaker 3: certainly make sure you tick both those boxes.
Speaker 2: Actually, Matthew, there's a difference between references and referees because
Speaker 2: the references are the people who you've worked for but
Speaker 2: referees might be I don't know your coach from your
Speaker 2: sporting team or some mentor do you is a sort
Speaker 2: of job where you need a referee as well, because
Speaker 2: that's more about your personal character and everything.
Speaker 5: I think I did actually mean, I mean like we're like, yeah,
Speaker 5: so I've got my former boss, so not my current boss,
Speaker 5: but I've got my former boss.
Speaker 4: I had a long stint there and we're kind of friends,
Speaker 4: and you know, probably had the most longevity in that workplace,
Speaker 4: and I'm the most proud of it. So he's he's
Speaker 4: there and he'll he'll be perfect. So it's kind of
Speaker 4: like a bit of a wrap around. I don't know
Speaker 4: if I should use the current one sometimes because you
Speaker 4: know you're ditching them. They might not be happy about it,
Speaker 4: especially in this you know, you never know way, so.
Speaker 3: If anyone's interested in you, they want to get somebody
Speaker 3: from your local one. But you certainly keep that other
Speaker 3: guy and he'd be perfect, you know, the one you
Speaker 3: just said you had a good relationship with him, like friends.
Speaker 3: He'll speak very well of you. I'm sure the current one. Look,
Speaker 3: they probably will be asking for someone, so keep keep
Speaker 3: an ear at for someone who's going to look after
Speaker 3: you and make sure you're find.
Speaker 2: What sort of work is it? What sort of what
Speaker 2: sort of industry?
Speaker 4: I'm not really looking to leave my job necessarily.
Speaker 2: Know what type of jobs? Are we talking though? What's
Speaker 2: what's your what's your what's your bag?
Speaker 3: Are you a carpenter or are you working a supermarket or.
Speaker 2: Doctor or so?
Speaker 4: I used to work at a rural lodge at Sonana
Speaker 4: Lake Road a Weedy, A beautiful lodge up there in hospitality.
Speaker 4: So I was working there in the National Park essentially,
Speaker 4: it's it's the main hotel up there, so you're basically
Speaker 4: a hotel worker. And I did a bit of everything
Speaker 4: up there, like housekeeper, gardening, laundry, that kind of work.
Speaker 2: That sounds like, sounds like a lovely spot. It's is
Speaker 2: it quite flash is it?
Speaker 4: It's an old lodge, but it's well run, great service.
Speaker 4: So that's in yeah, Lake Road of Weedy, which is
Speaker 4: like you know the Nelson Nelson Lakes.
Speaker 3: You got it, yeah, Matthew. So what you rattled off
Speaker 3: to me just quickly then was really ideal. So if
Speaker 3: you could say I was more of a I did
Speaker 3: a whole lot of range of duties and jobs and that,
Speaker 3: and you just mentioned three of them for example. I
Speaker 3: think that would really sell you. Well, so you've you've
Speaker 3: really had experience on a wide space spad and I
Speaker 3: think people would be interested to hear that.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Nice, thanks, thanks, cool. Yeah, yeah, lovely spot too.
Speaker 2: By the way, I've just googled the Yeah. Like, I
Speaker 2: just I like, it's like a mental holiday. You just
Speaker 2: click on, I have a look at a few pecks
Speaker 2: and then hey, maybe one day hang on, let me
Speaker 2: just check the time. It is twenty seven and a
Speaker 2: half minutes to sex as we say, good afternoon, Emma, Hello, Hello, Emma.
Speaker 6: Hello, Hello, Hi. Hey, I just wanted some advice that
Speaker 6: sort of a challenge that myself as a parent returning
Speaker 6: to work several times I have three children, but also
Speaker 6: a lot of my friends face and that you know,
Speaker 6: I've worked hard to build my career. I worked for
Speaker 6: twenty years. I'm got at what I do, but kind
Speaker 6: of taking a bit more of a lead role in
Speaker 6: my family. I only need well, I can only do, say,
Speaker 6: thirty two hours a week, and what I find feedback
Speaker 6: I get from a lot of the roles. But I
Speaker 6: don't really want to go into a big role because
Speaker 6: I don't have the capacity right now, but I'm still
Speaker 6: very very able to add value. People will say, oh,
Speaker 6: you're too senior for the roles or you'd get bored,
Speaker 6: and it's like, I don't know how we get ahead
Speaker 6: of that narrative because I want to be able to
Speaker 6: add value. I can. I don't want to take your job.
Speaker 6: I've got thirty two hours. How do we make parents
Speaker 6: seem like an attractive proposition for employers?
Speaker 2: That's a big question here.
Speaker 3: Because it's common. I understand what you're saying in here
Speaker 3: because I've heard that before, and I think there is.
Speaker 6: Some reality real cop out when they say you're too senior,
Speaker 6: Like I don't what are they really saying? The scared
Speaker 6: you're going to take our job?
Speaker 3: Let me give it to you from their perspective, because
Speaker 3: you put somebody in the role who's way over qualified
Speaker 3: or experienced too more, they get bored very very quickly
Speaker 3: and get very disruptive. In the end.
Speaker 2: I think they're worried that you're just going to be temporary.
Speaker 2: That would be at Emma. I think they think you're
Speaker 2: going to get in there and look, you're sure you
Speaker 2: want the job now. Over the six months you're going
Speaker 2: to disappear. Well, really, I know I'm not saying that
Speaker 2: I'm buying your story, but.
Speaker 6: I'm just I've got my twenty year career in marketing,
Speaker 6: working in great roles and value. How do we keep
Speaker 6: me in the leadership pipeline?
Speaker 1: You know?
Speaker 6: If I say to you this is what I need,
Speaker 6: you know and I you know I'm not this whole
Speaker 6: I'm going to get bored and be disruptive. No me
Speaker 6: a parent that gets bored and disruptive working people.
Speaker 3: I reckon to acquire.
Speaker 2: Hey, I don't worry.
Speaker 3: I reckon you should be self employed. You do sound motivated.
Speaker 3: You do sound someone who will use their renovated and look,
Speaker 3: you already know that. Why wide experience your head's going
Speaker 3: to be helpful? Why did you get going and put
Speaker 3: another approach them? Would you like to outsource your marketing sources?
Speaker 2: So?
Speaker 6: Where are you at?
Speaker 2: What sort of work are you?
Speaker 6: So?
Speaker 2: Where are you at? And the job?
Speaker 4: I mean?
Speaker 6: Well I do, actually I actually am employed at the moment.
Speaker 6: But I wanted to answer the question because so many
Speaker 6: of my friends faces and if we really want to
Speaker 6: encourage equity in leadership, where you're going to have to
Speaker 6: get our heads around how we retain women, particularly when
Speaker 6: if that you know, it's sixty hours of work a
Speaker 6: week unpaid at home if you have children, right, I.
Speaker 3: Know how you find the time with three children carry
Speaker 3: a job as well?
Speaker 6: You know, you know, if you have a partner, that
Speaker 6: should be a lot easier. But if they have a
Speaker 6: demanding job, this stuff is really tough, tough, you know,
Speaker 6: And I just think if women feel like it's not
Speaker 6: worth going back to work, particularly senior professional woman who
Speaker 6: are actually the ones that are going to change the system,
Speaker 6: nothing's going to change.
Speaker 4: Hey.
Speaker 2: By the way, when you say thirty two hours a week,
Speaker 2: would that be four days a week or sort of
Speaker 2: five days, Well.
Speaker 6: That's still a big week, totally, totally. And also but
Speaker 6: also like if you are working in the system that's
Speaker 6: based on forty hours a week, if you really want
Speaker 6: to better fit into that system, thirty two is the
Speaker 6: minimum you're going to be able to work, really because
Speaker 6: to meet meetings and expectations for.
Speaker 2: People, if you're efficient, you have forty hours done in
Speaker 2: thirty two, I imagine.
Speaker 6: Well yeah, I mean, as you guys will know, parents do.
Speaker 6: But we still get paid eighty percent of the salary
Speaker 6: but that's also broken anyway.
Speaker 2: Okay, that's no good on you. No, I'm glad you've
Speaker 2: thrown that into the into the Mexican em you.
Speaker 3: Plus, you've got a powerful personality. I think I would
Speaker 3: worry employees. I think you're not going to tolerate You're
Speaker 3: not going to tolerate shiit. You're going to have just
Speaker 3: what you're.
Speaker 6: Saying to me that that's actually an advantage but also
Speaker 6: a massive disadvantage.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, we're running with the hairs on, hunting at
Speaker 2: the hounds, right. I mean that's you know, that's life,
Speaker 2: hasn't it. She is, I mean often strengths and weaknesses
Speaker 2: and vice versa. Yes, I think I recognized him as voice.
Speaker 2: Actually I think she is. She's got a few things going,
Speaker 2: but she's a very powerful advocate for working mums getting on.
Speaker 3: The strengthen her. You can tell that she's got She
Speaker 3: would be very, very capable. I reckon she'd be able
Speaker 3: to sell herself to do the marketing sources for anything.
Speaker 3: And look at New Zealand businesses, Ninety seven percent of
Speaker 3: them are very small, less than twenty people, So she
Speaker 3: she'd fit in just perfectly to market some of them for.
Speaker 2: Them absolutely, Hey, I think we need to take a
Speaker 2: moment and come back after the break. Tarmody has next.
Speaker 2: We've got a few texts to get onto as well.
Speaker 2: And eight one hundred and eighty ten eighty is the
Speaker 2: number if you're listening about that, if you've just joined,
Speaker 2: and you'll be like, what are they talking about? The original?
Speaker 2: The origin of the conversation is actually about CVS. What
Speaker 2: are you sticking and what do you leave out? Which
Speaker 2: may be the leaving out sometimes can be more important
Speaker 2: because you don't want to bore them with every tiny
Speaker 2: little job you've done, or do you depending on what
Speaker 2: the relevance is. It's twenty two minutes to six. Anyway,
Speaker 2: welcome back to the show. I don't know why I
Speaker 2: said anyways, because I was chatting with Max Bradford. Bradford
Speaker 2: you sold that seed, Max, you said sometimes you can
Speaker 2: refuse money. White Head, Max Whitehead from the white Head
Speaker 2: group you because we're just chatting about.
Speaker 3: A probably listening in going no I'm associateuling.
Speaker 2: Oh no, no, no, no no. We were just talking
Speaker 2: about ABBA, weren't we. And yep, I still look at
Speaker 2: those videos from I had a huge crush on Agneta
Speaker 2: when I was probably about six years old. But there
Speaker 2: we go.
Speaker 3: She's a little old greedy. Now are you still doing
Speaker 3: it right?
Speaker 2: Let's let's take it by the way we need to
Speaker 2: talk about we'll touch on the Uber thing. In fact,
Speaker 2: let's do that. Now we can come back to some
Speaker 2: texts about cvs and things like that. But that ruling
Speaker 2: about Uber who ruled that these particular contractors were employees,
Speaker 2: has now had this repercussion that can anyone be a
Speaker 2: contractor or are you going to be designated to be
Speaker 2: an employee? What do we know about that Uber case
Speaker 2: that basically said that people who Uber wanted to be
Speaker 2: deal with US contractors suddenly their employees. They have to
Speaker 2: give them leave all that sort of thing and your
Speaker 2: leave entitlements and stuff. What do we know about that
Speaker 2: case and what it means for contractors generally?
Speaker 3: Right? Good question, because I've really studied this decision because
Speaker 3: I think it's got huge ramifications for New Zealand as
Speaker 3: a whole. I tell you why, Tim, because most of
Speaker 3: New Zealand is a contractors now, and I'd say we're
Speaker 3: a nation of contractors really, and look that's what Uber
Speaker 3: drivers are, They're contractors. So what that means is that
Speaker 3: they were well, these Uber drivers were free to work
Speaker 3: only when they wanted to and as long as they
Speaker 3: wanted to. They didn't have there was no compulsion, so
Speaker 3: they had a lot of freedoms. And they bought the
Speaker 3: car that they wanted to buy and they could use it,
Speaker 3: but they had to maintain it, so they had those
Speaker 3: freedom as well. But the decision still is that they
Speaker 3: are an employee.
Speaker 2: Was it because these particular contractors were just having a
Speaker 2: little bit too much put on them by the company
Speaker 2: in terms of expectations, And that's why the facts were
Speaker 2: just two And it doesn't necessarily mean that everyone who's
Speaker 2: working for Uber is suddenly going to be an employee.
Speaker 3: Order the Uber company had total control over their renuneration.
Speaker 3: They had total control over how much each customer's charged,
Speaker 3: so they two a lot of controls. Yeah, a lot
Speaker 3: of controls. So that was part one of the tests provided.
Speaker 3: But the Court of Appeal did not like what the
Speaker 3: employment court had said. They said, no, you've got all
Speaker 3: that wrong and this wrong and that wrong. So I've
Speaker 3: given us a very good steer in terms of what
Speaker 3: constitutes now getting back to your original.
Speaker 2: Good for employment. Lawyers isn't it.
Speaker 3: Absolutely there's going to be the Already nine hundred Uber
Speaker 3: drivers have got a claim when the Employment Authority for
Speaker 3: back pay six hundred six years, they can go back
Speaker 3: six years of pay, nine hundred of them.
Speaker 2: How many employers or companies are going to be nervous
Speaker 2: about anyone who's working as a contractor exactly?
Speaker 3: Well, I would say most of New Zealand, bigger companies,
Speaker 3: particularly government departments have contractors in there. Now. I mean,
Speaker 3: there's a distinction to be made, but it's really difficult,
Speaker 3: and you're dead right to what you said. Employment lawyers
Speaker 3: and advocates are going to make a field dais the
Speaker 3: Employment authority are going to be choking full of applications
Speaker 3: right now?
Speaker 2: Ah? It sounds to me like that if the courts,
Speaker 2: if this is seen as I don't know, the problem is,
Speaker 2: you know what you read in the media, People go
Speaker 2: all these four employees have been found to be contractors,
Speaker 2: have been found to be employees. It doesn't necessarily follow
Speaker 2: that on the facts, everyone else who's a contractor for
Speaker 2: Uber is going to be designated to be an employee
Speaker 2: because the circumstances might be different. But it makes everyone
Speaker 2: nervous so therefore is this one of those things where well,
Speaker 2: you can't wait for another case necessary in front of
Speaker 2: the Court of Appeal where the government might step and
Speaker 2: then say, OK, we're going to issue some clarity around
Speaker 2: us so they can maybe still support the uber thing.
Speaker 2: Up to appointment spell out more clearly why everyone doesn't
Speaker 2: need to be petrified that every contractor is now an employement.
Speaker 3: The minister has already said that. She said even the
Speaker 3: beginning of this year she's going to clarify the definition
Speaker 3: of what constitutes an employee and in a contractor.
Speaker 2: That's Brook van Veldeen. Yes, it is say that she's
Speaker 2: doing work on that, but we do have a stair
Speaker 2: as to how they're going to define that. Because they
Speaker 2: don't want to do anything radical, they've just got to
Speaker 2: try and say, listen, let's not frighten the horses. This
Speaker 2: is what a contractor is and these are the factors
Speaker 2: that are going to overstep that mark into employee that.
Speaker 3: She hasn't given us a hint. Also, knowing her politics
Speaker 3: as we do, you've had David Seymour on her, that's
Speaker 3: her leader. You know that she is really supportive of
Speaker 3: businesses and productivities for new Zealand, which I think that's
Speaker 3: what we do need to focus on with regards to
Speaker 3: this decision. So section six of the Employment Relations Act
Speaker 3: that defines what an employee is, and I think you'll
Speaker 3: find that she is going to be focused on that.
Speaker 2: And what's at the moment.
Speaker 3: That's what the Court of Appeal have actually defined and
Speaker 3: says well, Uber drivers, and.
Speaker 2: Look section six of the what some people look ups Act. Okay, okay,
Speaker 2: I'll have a look of mine time.
Speaker 3: No, it's it is interesting, but it doesn't tell you.
Speaker 3: You see, they need to still apply the rules. And look,
Speaker 3: the rules that they apply applies to all Uber drivers,
Speaker 3: so I don't think there's going to be any difference.
Speaker 3: So nine hundred Uber drivers now have a very very
Speaker 3: strong case to get six years of back pain.
Speaker 2: And here's the thing. If you see, there'll be smaller
Speaker 2: employers who have who have engagements with contractors where they
Speaker 2: might be a little nervous and you could be sympathetic
Speaker 2: to them. But no one's going to be really sympathetic
Speaker 2: to this monster machine called Uber, are they. That's and
Speaker 2: that's where I.
Speaker 3: Think you're going to They're going to pack their bags
Speaker 3: and get the hell out of here And look, I
Speaker 3: worked at ADHP which is hospital here and a huge
Speaker 3: proportion of their staff for contractors. And I was the
Speaker 3: employment relations manager for Auckland Council and there was a
Speaker 3: massive number of people employed by Draken those days, which
Speaker 3: is now by another organization. And I'd say thousands and
Speaker 3: thousands of people that are contractors been there for six
Speaker 3: years doing forty hours a week. They'll fall into the same.
Speaker 2: Well, to be fair, if they've been in the same
Speaker 2: job for years, then Bengo, the person who's contract with
Speaker 2: them has probably got an issue.
Speaker 3: I wouldn't mind mimby. The police have all employment law
Speaker 3: have got hundreds, if not thousands of people there on contract.
Speaker 3: Lots of government departments have. They're worse at it than anybody.
Speaker 2: Okay, so Brook van Velden will be doing her homework stringently,
Speaker 2: won't she right?
Speaker 3: Well? And she I think hopefully she's aware that it's
Speaker 3: going to affect a huge part of the whole nation here.
Speaker 3: Our economy will be really leveraged off this.
Speaker 2: We might have to have a chat with her on
Speaker 2: politics or such.
Speaker 3: Well, I know you, and so that's why I'm laying
Speaker 3: this on you.
Speaker 2: Sewing the seed with My producer's probably taking notes right now. Right,
Speaker 2: let's tell you what. We're going to come back with
Speaker 2: a few more text just about the CV thing. But
Speaker 2: if you want to have your comments around, if you're
Speaker 2: in a situation as a contractor where you've been expected
Speaker 2: to turn up for the same time, same number of hours,
Speaker 2: forty hours a week, et cetera, and you're being designated
Speaker 2: a contractor, are you going to be suddenly having a
Speaker 2: chat with your employee your contract door and seeing if
Speaker 2: you can be designated as an employee because it's payday
Speaker 2: time for you. If that's the case, eleven minutes to
Speaker 2: Sex News Talks, he'd be hey, so welcome back to
Speaker 2: the show. I tell you what. My producer, Tyra, who
Speaker 2: is in her twenties, has remarkably sort of I wouldn't
Speaker 2: say middle aged taste because that makes it sound crusty,
Speaker 2: but she's got sort of mature tastes of music. Max.
Speaker 2: We've had a bit of Billy Joel, We've had some Abba,
Speaker 2: We've got Elton John, Jimmy Barnes.
Speaker 3: Actually good stuff.
Speaker 2: Isn't Cold Chisel coming back for tour? I can't. I
Speaker 2: think I saw Cold Chisel. We're coming back. I think
Speaker 2: that lead singer was Jimmy Barr. It wasn't he anyway?
Speaker 2: Completely unrelated Max, Let's do some texts, Max Whitehead, should
Speaker 2: I say so embarrassed I call you the wrong name before?
Speaker 3: Sorry?
Speaker 2: Okay, here's some texts on the just in the employment front. Hi,
Speaker 2: I'm a full time employee. I'm currently sixty four professional,
Speaker 2: love my job. Can I continue working after I'm sixty five?
Speaker 2: Or or my employer got the right people? Anyway? Can
Speaker 2: you be forced to retire sixty?
Speaker 3: Foe answers no, thanks absolutely not no, because it's just
Speaker 3: the superin of age. But if you're making you know,
Speaker 3: you're making mistakes at work and those sort of things,
Speaker 3: and you're slipping, you could be forced to retire, but
Speaker 3: not for age. They cannot discriminate against you.
Speaker 2: That actually came up when I noticed that Chris Sepkins,
Speaker 2: when I was chatting to him in our politics are
Speaker 2: he talked about he I thought he was being sixty four,
Speaker 2: but he distinctively drew a distinction. He says, no, no, no,
Speaker 2: we don't have a retirement age. We have a superannuation age.
Speaker 2: And I actually thought that from many people, that's probably
Speaker 2: an interesting evlation where we just assume you have to
Speaker 2: retire sixty five. But all it is, it's an age
Speaker 2: of entitlement where you can get the super but it
Speaker 2: doesn't mean anything beyond that if you want to continue working.
Speaker 3: Oh, we had a couple of pilots here that worked
Speaker 3: for another company not in New Zealand, and then they
Speaker 3: were under their rules and were made told to stand
Speaker 3: out at sixty I think it was, and they fought
Speaker 3: it based on New Zealand law and they won it. Well.
Speaker 2: Last night I hosted these awards for Saint Kent's for
Speaker 2: some former students who'd done amazing things with their lives,
Speaker 2: and one of them was Dr Peter Ring, who is
Speaker 2: an ophthalmologist and Pete's and Peter isn't as Pete, I
Speaker 2: don't call himte. Peter is in his seventies and he's
Speaker 2: still practicing wow ophthalmology and he's still right into it.
Speaker 2: And why wouldn't you.
Speaker 3: Be if you're functioning well, why not? I totally agree
Speaker 3: if the young people couldn't find work, but there's work
Speaker 3: out there. But if somebody's really functioning well, hang on
Speaker 3: to them, putting them in place.
Speaker 2: Where do you think you'll retire. I have no idea
Speaker 2: how odd you are, Max, and I don't expect you
Speaker 2: to end it up right now.
Speaker 3: Winston Peters, Oh well, he's functioning as a politician. He's
Speaker 3: one of the cleverest one with he's the Cunnings. I'm
Speaker 3: not a big fan, but I mean I've got to
Speaker 3: say he shows them up every time.
Speaker 2: He's an interesting cup of tea, isn't he? Because of
Speaker 2: his age, I mean sometimes he can really annoy you
Speaker 2: and other times you go, thank goodness for Winston. He
Speaker 2: really is quite a wily old.
Speaker 3: Again Biden who should have resigned because he is resigning
Speaker 3: because of his age, and of course that other I
Speaker 3: want to be president and there he's may come back.
Speaker 3: He's nearly going to be what seventy.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, he's the old one in the equation now.
Speaker 3: Trump, so we've got a few old he's out there
Speaker 3: right now. Maybe I could make prime minister one day
Speaker 3: or president of New Zealand.
Speaker 2: Well, yes, well you've left the run.
Speaker 3: Did that was offensive? But what?
Speaker 2: Okay? Anyway, he guess what that You know what that
Speaker 2: really is?
Speaker 3: You don't you shut me down?
Speaker 2: Know that it's we got thirty seconds to go, So
Speaker 2: it's time to sacod bye Max. So for people want
Speaker 2: to catch up with you, I eight hundred twenty four
Speaker 2: to seven ninety three ninety three.
Speaker 1: We got it.
Speaker 2: Folks, there is I eight one hundred and twenty four
Speaker 2: seven ninety three ninety three or I eight hundred something.
Speaker 3: As you want to get hold of me, do that.
Speaker 2: And thanks to my producer Tyra well Tira, thank you
Speaker 2: great music today. Some of the texts loved your music
Speaker 2: as well. Tyra. See we're winning and we'll catch you
Speaker 2: same time for the Weekend Collective next week Sunday at
Speaker 2: six is next. Stick around for that. Have a great evening.
Speaker 1: For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News
Speaker 1: Talks it'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the
Speaker 1: podcast on iHeartRadio