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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News TALKSTB. Follow this

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Speaker 1: and our Wide Ranger podcasts now on iHeartRadio, Straight Down the.

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Speaker 2: Middle, Drum Score, Try.

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Speaker 1: Sucket inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct

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Speaker 1: with Elliott Smith and Leam Napier powered by News Talks EDB.

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Speaker 2: Welcome into Rugby Direct, powered by Habit Health sackling all

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Speaker 2: your aches and pains from sports and work. You're intrepid

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Speaker 2: rugby journalists. Heroes are back for another week to review

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Speaker 2: not only the Super Rugby Final, we'll get to that

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Speaker 2: a bit later in the podcast, but the All Blacks

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Speaker 2: thirty three man squad to face Franz Elligott Smith with

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Speaker 2: me as always Liam Napier. We have spent the day

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Speaker 2: in Taranaki, beautiful part of the world Coastal Rugby Club

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Speaker 2: and on the podcast we'll hear from Scott Robertson and

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Speaker 2: Albert Sword's Jackson and Ryan to explain some of the

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Speaker 2: selections that they're made for the series. But Liam, welcome

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Speaker 2: to the podcast as always, and she's been a big.

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Speaker 3: Old day as indeed, great to get out in the

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Speaker 3: community Taranaki, seeing them great airports and a great great

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Speaker 3: regnod club of Barrett Country.

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Speaker 2: It is a great airport. Actually was very impressed by

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Speaker 2: the new Plymouth Airport. So a wonderful place to while

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Speaker 2: away a few hours finding some copy. But let's get

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Speaker 2: straight into it, and here from All Blacks coach Scott

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Speaker 2: Robertson a chat that you and I spoke with him

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Speaker 2: at the All Black squad naming and he explained some

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Speaker 2: of the key selections. So let's dive into that now.

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Speaker 2: Scott Robertson for still All Black Scott of twenty twenty five.

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Speaker 2: How good to have this one named and how tricky

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Speaker 2: were the selections?

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Speaker 4: He good to be here, good to be a coastal,

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Speaker 4: awesome spot, fiber of our country. You know, clat Rugby

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Speaker 4: and some great men and woman out of here you

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Speaker 4: Coogamvi Kenjack. You know she's would be in the world

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Speaker 4: and it's good to come back here. And team selection

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Speaker 4: always tough. You know, I've got some great players competing hard,

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Speaker 4: so you're going to make some calls. Some great parts

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Speaker 4: are going to miss out. But yeah, we're really pleased

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Speaker 4: with the balance and the opportunities we've given some new parts.

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Speaker 2: What were the toughest area loose forward sort of looking

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Speaker 2: at the squad seems like a really tough area that

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Speaker 2: you felt the squeeze the.

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Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, loose forwards, midfield backs. As you can see.

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Speaker 4: The good thing is about the versatility of the players.

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Speaker 4: So I'm looking pack two or three positions and being

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Speaker 4: in New Zealand, I want to make a very clear

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Speaker 4: point that we're going to bring a couple of pars

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Speaker 4: in and out. You know, we've got a couple of

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Speaker 4: injury covers at the moment, but coming and train we

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Speaker 4: found out the best we've got out of our plas

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Speaker 4: is set them up by having a week or so

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Speaker 4: until then, get to have a look at them, prepare

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Speaker 4: them so they're ready for test footy. And obviously we're

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Speaker 4: going to go from thirty three to thirty six and

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Speaker 4: then we're going to get injuries to you know, playing

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Speaker 4: test series at homes critical for us in their depth.

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Speaker 2: Super secrete you what stood out about the season?

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Speaker 5: What do you think?

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Speaker 2: And I had a pretty leading question there.

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Speaker 4: Elio the I picked himself in regards with forum consistency.

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Speaker 4: He's a mature, sure rugby part and sure mature man.

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Speaker 4: What we asked for him and how we a lot

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Speaker 4: of the self control gets required to play at Test

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Speaker 4: forty and he showed.

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Speaker 3: It just five loose forwards. I guess that sort of

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Speaker 3: stood out eighteen fifteen's but what was the thinking with

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Speaker 3: the loose forwards?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, loose fords. We're going to have a second row

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Speaker 4: cover the loose fords positioned, so cover six and then

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Speaker 4: gives us the balance of it that we can play

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Speaker 4: the all the players over the three matt series. That's

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Speaker 4: our playing around that in that area. Obviously, Fabian's definitely

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Speaker 4: a lock well six foot nine and ten of them,

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Speaker 4: and and then we can we just start to look

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Speaker 4: and like I said, to add to the squad when

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Speaker 4: the Rugby Championship comes along.

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Speaker 3: And the theme with the loose fords seems to be

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Speaker 3: strong on both sides of the ball and got quite

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Speaker 3: a lot of power there is that for.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, obviously, you know we've got some informed players and

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Speaker 4: the loose forwards the balance of the both play a

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Speaker 4: couple of positions. But I know it's a you know,

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Speaker 4: some a penny to talk about him, he said, moments

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Speaker 4: through the year has been been awesome and we're going

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Speaker 4: to get the best out of them. We feel like

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Speaker 4: he's maturing nicely.

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Speaker 3: The loose head selection with offer out. What was it

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Speaker 3: about Olin Norris at one him selection?

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Speaker 4: Look Jason's you know, obviously we'll cover a little bit

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Speaker 4: more detail. But big body being really really consistent, good

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Speaker 4: chance for us to look at him in the series.

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Speaker 4: You know, build depth in that area. There's always, you know,

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Speaker 4: always the question you go, now do you hold off

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Speaker 4: and give someone an older player a correct But we're

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Speaker 4: going to give Olio go. He's he's worked hardly, strong,

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Speaker 4: he's good scommager, so and he can carry all those

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Speaker 4: things that we look forward for in a play like

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Speaker 4: him here.

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Speaker 5: You can send them with tough and our white.

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Speaker 2: His ability to get the ball, is that something that

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Speaker 2: stood out to you?

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Speaker 4: Yes, you know the Mothi's he's a special player in it.

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Speaker 4: It's so much power in him. It's consistently over the

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Speaker 4: whole year, really impressed us. You know, his skill set,

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Speaker 4: his defensive reads got better and better, and he's so

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Speaker 4: resilient and tough. He compliments the midfield.

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Speaker 2: I don't know you've named as in midfield. Do you

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Speaker 2: see him as a winger potentially as well, someone that

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Speaker 2: can play both positions, maybe off the bench. Yeah, a

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Speaker 2: little bit of.

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Speaker 4: A utility factor in him, which is great. You know

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Speaker 4: all players again, you look, we've you know, we've got

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Speaker 4: a few midfielders in there, but someone can play fallback

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Speaker 4: and covers can cover wing. And that's what we've done,

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Speaker 4: you know, like I've une around thirty five, like I've

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Speaker 4: brained it back to thirty three. We even thought about

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Speaker 4: thirty two that we had last year. But just to

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Speaker 4: give you guys exposure before you know, we get on

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Speaker 4: the road, some tough calls.

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Speaker 2: Ethan Black Edder and David Havilli just you know, had

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Speaker 2: tough for those fine calls that you've obviously get.

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Speaker 4: To make, really tough, really good men. Firstly, not much

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Speaker 4: in the calls. They're being consistent and we just picked

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Speaker 4: this team for now and there's conversations that we had

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Speaker 4: for them. You know, they still stay in it and

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Speaker 4: we get to have a look at these players and

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Speaker 4: small margins.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Brodie McAllister as well obviously stand out for the

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Speaker 3: Chiefs this year. His edged George Bell was it just

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Speaker 3: a form selection?

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Speaker 4: You know, George has only played fearful games and Brodie's

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Speaker 4: played a lot of good foot. He started well, finished well.

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Speaker 4: All his core roles are really really strong, and it

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Speaker 4: just gives us an opportunity build a little bit of

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Speaker 4: depth at hooker that put.

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Speaker 3: In the cart before the horse. I know you're looking

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Speaker 3: at finishing games this year. Has it coming to your

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Speaker 3: selection thinking with guys like Tavera Tabanawa is usually coming

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Speaker 3: off the bench of twenty months ago, maybe a dupless

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Speaker 3: Is that a factor and selection when you're looking at

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Speaker 3: a squad.

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Speaker 4: Yes, yeah, for sure. We know. You know we were

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Speaker 4: at last year. You're clearing the stats as I am,

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Speaker 4: as you know the opportunity we created, but we didn't

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Speaker 4: quite get to finish and you know the twenty three

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Speaker 4: wins test matches in most rugby games, So yeah, there

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Speaker 4: was discussion around there.

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Speaker 2: So Scott Robertson, they're talking about some of his key

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Speaker 2: selections for the series. I'm sure everyone's seen the squad

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Speaker 2: by now, but Liam, what stands out to you from

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Speaker 2: the thirty three players he's named.

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Speaker 3: I think there's some big surprises, aren't there. I don't

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Speaker 3: think anyone predicted that Ethan Blackheader would miss out. I

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Speaker 3: think Tavia Tavanawa is a surprise inclusion. There was good

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Speaker 3: early in the year, but perhaps faded away bit late

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Speaker 3: and then the Highlanders weren't involved in the playoffs, so

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Speaker 3: maybe he faded from view a little bit and Brody

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Speaker 3: McAllister don't recall anyone predicting his inclusion. I was aware

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Speaker 3: that I suffer Moore would be out with that hamstring injury,

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Speaker 3: but the natural inclination is to think they'll stick with

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Speaker 3: George Bell. So that's a bit of a top line.

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Speaker 3: And then I think the balance of the squad, as

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Speaker 3: well as surprising six midfielders five loose forwards in eighteen

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Speaker 3: fifteen split, it does feel a wee bit skewed, particularly

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Speaker 3: in that midfield. Too many midfielders. But what I do

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Speaker 3: like is this is a bold selection and it does

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Speaker 3: feel like now in the second year of Scott Robertson,

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Speaker 3: if you're gonna find out about some players, do it

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Speaker 3: and don't wait. So I was critical last year of

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Speaker 3: the All Blacks for being ultra conservative, and while they

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Speaker 3: had ten rookies, I stand by that. I think a

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Speaker 3: number of people should have been given more chance and

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Speaker 3: they could have been a lot braver, and I think

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Speaker 3: coming into their second year you're starting to see a

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Speaker 3: wee bit more of that. Certainly on the face of it,

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Speaker 3: with this squad.

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Speaker 2: It feels like a squad and again I've probably same

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Speaker 2: issues with you around the balance of it, but a

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Speaker 2: squad that right, this is the way we want to play.

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Speaker 2: We want to get over the game line. We want

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Speaker 2: to be explosive, We want to attack teams on both

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Speaker 2: sides of the ball. We want to be a little

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Speaker 2: bit more ruthless. And I think the selections, the headline

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Speaker 2: selections lend themselves to that. Ta Tavatava No, why very

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Speaker 2: very good over the ball, explosive in nature has been impressive. Look,

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Speaker 2: we didn't select them in our squads last week when

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Speaker 2: we went through because I similar to you though maybe

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Speaker 2: faded towards the end of the season. But what the

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Speaker 2: All Blacks have said is that they think he was

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Speaker 2: consistent and they're willing to obviously upskill him and get

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Speaker 2: him into that All Blacks environment and trust that they

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Speaker 2: can add to his game. There another player that is

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Speaker 2: explosive on both sides of the ball. He gets a

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Speaker 2: lot of credit for the turnovers he makes, but what

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Speaker 2: it doesn't get a lot of credit for, perhaps should

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Speaker 2: is his ability with born hand He's very very good

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Speaker 2: with his ball handling skills. Really like that about his game.

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Speaker 2: So I think that's where you look and go, Okay,

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Speaker 2: well they're weighing up Blackheader and maybe Heavili in the midfield,

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Speaker 2: they're gone with Ta ta Nawa and care Feet, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's some other players in the mixture as well, But

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Speaker 2: these are selections that are not risky necessarily, but they

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Speaker 2: are more explosive selections than perhaps the others that are weighing.

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Speaker 3: Up all the people with points of difference. And I

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Speaker 3: think we've touched on the fact that when you look

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Speaker 3: at guys like Luke Jacobson, Dalton, Papa Lee and Ethan Blackheader,

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Speaker 3: very similar players, strong defensively and without painting them with

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Speaker 3: all the same brush, it's about, Yeah, like you touched on,

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Speaker 3: what does this All Black team want to be? And

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Speaker 3: it is a power game. It is that destructive ball carrying,

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Speaker 3: having the point a difference and putting the cart before

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Speaker 3: the hawks a wee bit. But last year the All

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Speaker 3: Blacks lost the four tests they lost, they led at halftime,

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Speaker 3: and so their finishing is a major focus this year.

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Speaker 3: And when you look ahead to the potential composition of

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Speaker 3: the bench and injecting guys like Tavatavanawa potentially Kaife to

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Speaker 3: come on and you know, bring their points a difference,

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Speaker 3: bring those turnovers, that explosiveness. I really like the way

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Speaker 3: some of these selections are tailored and the thinking that

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Speaker 3: they've got. I think we just if we isolate a

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Speaker 3: few of these selections. Ethan Blackhead in particular, he didn't

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Speaker 3: play a lot of rugby this year, is very injury prone,

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Speaker 3: is very strong defensively, is always among the top tacklers

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Speaker 3: and we saw that in the back end of the

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Speaker 3: Crusaders campaign, but does an awful lot with ball in hand,

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Speaker 3: and that I think has cost him. His post contact

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Speaker 3: meters are very limited and for the prototype of what

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Speaker 3: the All Blacks want from a particular six, and they

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Speaker 3: do see Blackheader promptly as a specialist six six because

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Speaker 3: he doesn't have that speed off the back of the scrum. Yes,

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Speaker 3: he's played a bit of open side, so that that

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Speaker 3: hurts him as well. What's your big takeaway from the

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Speaker 3: black Header?

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Speaker 2: No, my takeaway is exactly the same thing as that

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Speaker 2: he is hamstrung by the fact that he probably is

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Speaker 2: only seen as a blowdside in this All Blacks environment.

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Speaker 2: I know he started tests, not many, but a few

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Speaker 2: at open side and twenty twenty one. But with the

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Speaker 2: player profile that they want out of that loose Ford trio,

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Speaker 2: there just isn't room for Ethan Blackhader, given he can't

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Speaker 2: cover eight and it was probably a close decision between

242
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Speaker 2: him and Sammopenny fen Now, but if you're taking in

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Speaker 2: one six, they've gone with Fenaw who offers that explosiveness.

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Speaker 2: I thought Fenw didn't have the greatest of games against

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Speaker 2: the Blues, was a little bit better against the Brumbies

246
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Speaker 2: the week prior, fairly anonymous in the final in all honesty,

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Speaker 2: but they've gone with the player that again we use

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Speaker 2: this word explosiveness, this is the kind of player. This

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Speaker 2: is a statement selection that this is the way we

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Speaker 2: want to play. I can see Ethan Blackhead are potentially

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Speaker 2: getting back into the All Blacks environment. They're going to

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Speaker 2: have to expand the squad to thirty six for the

253
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Speaker 2: Rugby Championship, and maybe he comes back in when you've

254
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Speaker 2: got games against South Africa where perhaps the profile of

255
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Speaker 2: the opponent there is a little bit more similar and

256
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Speaker 2: you want to have a player that's going to tackle

257
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Speaker 2: all day. So I don't know that necessarily it's Ethan

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Speaker 2: Blackheads swan song in the All Blacks environment. He is

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Speaker 2: off contract, I think is an interesting thing around that,

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Speaker 2: So he hasn't really signed with New Zealand rugby's my knowledge,

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Speaker 2: excuse me, beyond this year, So that is interesting in itself,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, I think he's certainly hamstrung by that.

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Speaker 3: The other points to note here is injuries have played

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Speaker 3: a part. Peter Lukeye, who was very good at the

265
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Speaker 3: back end of last year for the All Blacks off

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Speaker 3: the bench against France, didn't really kick on as you

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Speaker 3: would expect him to do with the Hurricanes this year.

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Speaker 3: He is not considered because of a knee injury. Simon

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Speaker 3: Parker was the other one that's been on the All

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Speaker 3: Blacks radar. Maybe if he was fits with that ankle injury,

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Speaker 3: he would have pushed some a penny female and you

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Speaker 3: touched on there with Ethan Blackett. Do you see a

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Speaker 3: path back to him? Well, what about Dalton papal Lee.

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Speaker 3: Well this is interesting, isn't it. And I don't think

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Speaker 3: either of us had him in our squads last week

276
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Speaker 3: And it's not luck he's done anything wrong necessarily for

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Speaker 3: the Blues this season, but he hasn't stood out and

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Speaker 3: it seems to me that they are going away from

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Speaker 3: you know, he was the heir apparent to Sam Kaine.

280
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Speaker 3: He was the ear apparent Sam Kane for a number

281
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Speaker 3: of years and when Sam Kine had the injuries and

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Speaker 3: various things, Don and Papa Lee slotted in there. But

283
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Speaker 3: I just think he's been just a little bit too

284
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Speaker 3: quiet over the last year or so. Faded out of

285
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Speaker 3: the selector's plans last year, then got injured, didn't go

286
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Speaker 3: on the end of the two That probably hamstrung his

287
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Speaker 3: chance to impress the and again the Blues. When you

288
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Speaker 3: had an up and down season and you're on the

289
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Speaker 3: cusp of All Black selection as an incumbent and you're

290
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Speaker 3: not standing out, you're probably one of those players that

291
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Speaker 3: are on the chopping block. So I'm not saying he

292
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Speaker 3: had a terrible season, but he didn't certainly stand out

293
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Speaker 3: for the Blues. Now his future is very, very interesting

294
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Speaker 3: because again he was painted as the air apparent to

295
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Speaker 3: Sam Kaine, and now all of a sudden he's not

296
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Speaker 3: in the squad and doesn't appear to be the open

297
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Speaker 3: side flank or the kind of open side blankert flanker

298
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Speaker 3: that the All Blacks are looking for.

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Speaker 2: What did you make of that?

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Speaker 3: It's not a surprise, and that probably speaks to how

301
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Speaker 3: far he has fallen in the pecking order. And I

302
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Speaker 3: mentioned last week that I think the Blue style hasn't

303
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Speaker 3: helped him because he does have that ability to play wide.

304
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Speaker 3: He is a good ball carrier, but the Blue style

305
00:16:05,813 --> 00:16:11,533
Speaker 3: that tight combative to Reck's game doesn't give him those opportunities.

306
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Speaker 3: So I think that that has hurt. But if caref

307
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Speaker 3: he takes his chance, and there is every suggestion he

308
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Speaker 3: will because he's been waiting so long. It was what

309
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Speaker 3: twenty twenty and then you kind of covid years here

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Speaker 3: twenty twenty two. I think he's spent time in the

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Speaker 3: all Blacks environment but has gone away matured and you

312
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Speaker 3: can see how hungry he has been, how much he

313
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Speaker 3: is matured with those leadership roles with Wellington and the Hurricanes.

314
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Speaker 3: So I just can't see him blowing that opportunity. So

315
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Speaker 3: you've got Ardie Carreefee, and then you've also got guys

316
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Speaker 3: like Christian Leo Wadia who's not a seven admittedly, but

317
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Speaker 3: he's in as injury cover for Luke Jacobson from his

318
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Speaker 3: head knock So and Peter Lacai on the fringe as well.

319
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Speaker 3: So the roadback for PAPALLII looks looks very congested.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, he's got a big NBC season. He's

321
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Speaker 2: now going to have to impress with County's Monaco and

322
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Speaker 2: you look, I don't I'm not going to all matter

323
00:17:14,213 --> 00:17:15,973
Speaker 2: come afielbacks. But as you say that, that path is

324
00:17:16,053 --> 00:17:19,573
Speaker 2: really really tough for him in a congested, loose forward trio. Again,

325
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Speaker 2: they've only taken five for the series. They clearly want

326
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Speaker 2: to see a lot of these players. That's something what

327
00:17:24,293 --> 00:17:26,933
Speaker 2: probably worth touching on as well, is that they could

328
00:17:26,933 --> 00:17:29,093
Speaker 2: have named thirty five. That was the number that was

329
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Speaker 2: given when they sent out their media advisory saying hey

330
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Speaker 2: we're going to name a thirty five men squad. They've

331
00:17:33,573 --> 00:17:35,813
Speaker 2: only named thirty three. And to me, that also that

332
00:17:35,893 --> 00:17:38,533
Speaker 2: they want to see a lot of these players in

333
00:17:38,573 --> 00:17:40,653
Speaker 2: action and don't want them holding tackle bags for three

334
00:17:40,693 --> 00:17:42,053
Speaker 2: weeks and not getting opportunities.

335
00:17:42,733 --> 00:17:45,813
Speaker 3: That's right, and that was the case last July as well.

336
00:17:46,733 --> 00:17:49,053
Speaker 3: Give everyone opportunities and no point picking them in the

337
00:17:49,093 --> 00:17:51,453
Speaker 3: squad and not giving them a chance to make their

338
00:17:51,773 --> 00:17:54,933
Speaker 3: debuts to prove themselves. And I think it's also worth

339
00:17:54,973 --> 00:17:58,573
Speaker 3: noting that this is a squad for July. Yep, and

340
00:17:58,693 --> 00:18:00,813
Speaker 3: there'll be thirty six for the Rugby Championship and that

341
00:18:00,853 --> 00:18:07,053
Speaker 3: will change. There'll be injuries, there'll be different form permutations,

342
00:18:07,813 --> 00:18:10,773
Speaker 3: and you've got other people coming back like least to

343
00:18:10,813 --> 00:18:15,173
Speaker 3: find Anookho and the backs who I assume will be

344
00:18:15,693 --> 00:18:20,413
Speaker 3: pretty much straight inclusion given where he left and is

345
00:18:20,453 --> 00:18:23,493
Speaker 3: impact with too long, so there will be further change.

346
00:18:23,493 --> 00:18:27,333
Speaker 3: This is just for July, but on the face of it,

347
00:18:27,333 --> 00:18:30,293
Speaker 3: it's a very intriguing squad and we haven't even you know,

348
00:18:30,373 --> 00:18:32,333
Speaker 3: touched on the front row with the guys like Oli

349
00:18:32,373 --> 00:18:33,053
Speaker 3: Norris coming.

350
00:18:32,933 --> 00:18:35,133
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, let's touch on that. Then we knew there

351
00:18:35,133 --> 00:18:37,013
Speaker 2: had to be a loose hid prop. Olie Norris was

352
00:18:37,013 --> 00:18:39,253
Speaker 2: a player that we both packed last week. Then George

353
00:18:39,253 --> 00:18:42,533
Speaker 2: Bell went out and had a very very good back

354
00:18:42,573 --> 00:18:45,293
Speaker 2: twenty twenty five minutes of the Super Rugby Final and

355
00:18:45,373 --> 00:18:48,173
Speaker 2: I thought he was excellent. But Oli Norris is the

356
00:18:48,173 --> 00:18:51,613
Speaker 2: younger player they've chosen to go with him, and you

357
00:18:51,653 --> 00:18:54,293
Speaker 2: can't say he's not worthy of his opportunity because even

358
00:18:54,333 --> 00:18:56,853
Speaker 2: when he got penalized a little bit, you know on

359
00:18:56,893 --> 00:18:59,213
Speaker 2: the weekend against Fletcher Newell, you're coming up against a

360
00:18:59,293 --> 00:19:01,613
Speaker 2: very very good tight head prop. I think there's a

361
00:19:01,613 --> 00:19:02,853
Speaker 2: lot to like about Oli Norris.

362
00:19:03,493 --> 00:19:08,013
Speaker 3: There is very dynamic mobile another in the Passilio Tossi

363
00:19:08,093 --> 00:19:11,333
Speaker 3: Mole not to the same build, but a former loose

364
00:19:11,373 --> 00:19:15,973
Speaker 3: forward so brings that real mobility around the park. I

365
00:19:15,973 --> 00:19:18,093
Speaker 3: think it is a concern that he got exposed to

366
00:19:18,133 --> 00:19:21,253
Speaker 3: that degree, but he's not alone. You know, a prop

367
00:19:21,773 --> 00:19:25,253
Speaker 3: doesn't get isolated. So and the chief scrum in general

368
00:19:25,333 --> 00:19:28,733
Speaker 3: got capitulated, didn't it against the Crusaders, particularly in that

369
00:19:28,773 --> 00:19:31,933
Speaker 3: second half. So a bit of work to do there,

370
00:19:32,053 --> 00:19:35,253
Speaker 3: I think. But I like again that the All Blacks

371
00:19:35,293 --> 00:19:38,053
Speaker 3: are having a look at some of these guys. They

372
00:19:38,133 --> 00:19:40,373
Speaker 3: know what they're going to get from George Bauer, from

373
00:19:40,413 --> 00:19:43,813
Speaker 3: Ethan Blacket, from Dalton Pope Lee, from David Heavily, but

374
00:19:43,933 --> 00:19:51,373
Speaker 3: they don't from Fabian Hollands, Norris McAllister and these other rookies.

375
00:19:51,413 --> 00:19:54,053
Speaker 3: So I like that that they're trying to find some

376
00:19:54,093 --> 00:19:56,533
Speaker 3: things out and they're being a bit more brave and bold.

377
00:19:56,653 --> 00:20:02,693
Speaker 2: Brady McAllister another one selected. You know, as you said

378
00:20:02,733 --> 00:20:05,733
Speaker 2: at the top, genuine bolter. You know it's a word

379
00:20:05,773 --> 00:20:07,853
Speaker 2: that's overused, but if you're going to pack bolts out

380
00:20:07,893 --> 00:20:09,973
Speaker 2: of it Scott as a bolter because none would have

381
00:20:09,973 --> 00:20:11,933
Speaker 2: picked him. George Bell seemed like the obvious cab off

382
00:20:11,933 --> 00:20:14,333
Speaker 2: the ring, but mcalson moved to the Chiefs in the

383
00:20:14,373 --> 00:20:17,493
Speaker 2: off season has got more game time this year, even

384
00:20:17,493 --> 00:20:20,133
Speaker 2: though that's pretty congested at the Chiefs with Bradley Slater

385
00:20:20,173 --> 00:20:22,893
Speaker 2: there and as well in SAMASONI takeyaha, but he stood

386
00:20:22,893 --> 00:20:25,453
Speaker 2: out and he's got his opportunity. I thought he and

387
00:20:25,733 --> 00:20:28,533
Speaker 2: losing if it was pretty good on the weekend.

388
00:20:28,493 --> 00:20:32,573
Speaker 3: Made a real impact, probably the best, certainly the best

389
00:20:32,573 --> 00:20:35,213
Speaker 3: performer off the bench for the Chiefs. It was. I

390
00:20:35,213 --> 00:20:38,573
Speaker 3: remember him ripping one in a tackle and just being

391
00:20:38,613 --> 00:20:42,453
Speaker 3: amongst everything and it's easy to forget at the back

392
00:20:42,533 --> 00:20:45,733
Speaker 3: end of the super rugby the front end. He started

393
00:20:46,653 --> 00:20:49,733
Speaker 3: possibly the majority of the of the chief season at

394
00:20:49,733 --> 00:20:53,173
Speaker 3: hooker and that's the sort of impact he made. And

395
00:20:53,973 --> 00:20:56,093
Speaker 3: look good on him for moving to the Chiefs and

396
00:20:56,293 --> 00:21:00,413
Speaker 3: taking an opportunity. And I think I like the selection

397
00:21:00,653 --> 00:21:03,693
Speaker 3: more than George Bell because the All Blacks when they

398
00:21:03,693 --> 00:21:07,733
Speaker 3: picked George Bell last year over Eckland or Ricky Ricky Talley,

399
00:21:07,773 --> 00:21:10,093
Speaker 3: it was they were very upfront about that being investing

400
00:21:10,093 --> 00:21:12,853
Speaker 3: in youth, but then they didn't trust him. He was

401
00:21:12,853 --> 00:21:14,853
Speaker 3: on the bench for matches and he come on against

402
00:21:14,893 --> 00:21:15,733
Speaker 3: Ireland for one minute.

403
00:21:15,773 --> 00:21:17,853
Speaker 2: And George Bell needs rugby. I think he didn't play

404
00:21:17,853 --> 00:21:19,773
Speaker 2: a lot during the NPCE that sorry, super Ruggy, because

405
00:21:19,813 --> 00:21:21,213
Speaker 2: he was injured for a lot of it. We saw

406
00:21:21,293 --> 00:21:23,173
Speaker 2: Moan and new have a very good season for the

407
00:21:23,213 --> 00:21:27,813
Speaker 2: Crusaders and come in and impress the air. You know,

408
00:21:27,853 --> 00:21:31,133
Speaker 2: he struggled for minutes because he was injured for you know,

409
00:21:31,293 --> 00:21:33,173
Speaker 2: so long. He just needs rugby under his belt. And

410
00:21:33,173 --> 00:21:35,173
Speaker 2: whether that's with the NPC, I'm not sure if he's

411
00:21:35,213 --> 00:21:37,253
Speaker 2: got any moldy blood in him, whether he go and

412
00:21:37,293 --> 00:21:39,973
Speaker 2: play for the New Zealand MALDI, but get some game time,

413
00:21:40,053 --> 00:21:42,133
Speaker 2: get some regular game time under his belt and maybe

414
00:21:42,133 --> 00:21:43,493
Speaker 2: while the time you get to the end of the year,

415
00:21:43,813 --> 00:21:45,573
Speaker 2: there is a decision for the end of year tour

416
00:21:45,613 --> 00:21:48,693
Speaker 2: as to whether you go ol Moore, if he's fit

417
00:21:48,853 --> 00:21:51,693
Speaker 2: ready to go by then McAllister or George Bell and

418
00:21:52,573 --> 00:21:54,173
Speaker 2: you know, and I'll include the others on there, and

419
00:21:54,173 --> 00:21:58,733
Speaker 2: Taylor and and and Takeyaha in it. There is genuine

420
00:21:58,733 --> 00:22:00,013
Speaker 2: decision to be made by the end of the year

421
00:22:00,013 --> 00:22:02,653
Speaker 2: when you have had those hookers get more rugby under

422
00:22:02,653 --> 00:22:02,973
Speaker 2: their belt.

423
00:22:03,413 --> 00:22:07,493
Speaker 3: Yeah, one hundred percent. And the all Blacks overall philosophy here,

424
00:22:07,493 --> 00:22:10,133
Speaker 3: particularly with these new guys, is they want to be

425
00:22:10,293 --> 00:22:13,613
Speaker 3: four deep in every position. So it comes back to

426
00:22:13,653 --> 00:22:15,693
Speaker 3: again the fact that they know a lot about these

427
00:22:15,733 --> 00:22:18,733
Speaker 3: other guys. Well, let's get these rookies in and then

428
00:22:18,773 --> 00:22:21,333
Speaker 3: when injuries strike, they're not coming in cold. So that's

429
00:22:21,373 --> 00:22:24,213
Speaker 3: part of it. It's broadened it out a little bit

430
00:22:24,213 --> 00:22:29,373
Speaker 3: more to positions. Outside backs. Yep, No Ammonia Naraua. He's

431
00:22:29,373 --> 00:22:31,453
Speaker 3: in there as injury cover for anton Lena Brown, who

432
00:22:31,533 --> 00:22:33,613
Speaker 3: it sounds like could have actually played for the Chiefs

433
00:22:33,653 --> 00:22:37,373
Speaker 3: at the weekend but didn't, so you would think he's

434
00:22:37,413 --> 00:22:41,253
Speaker 3: not far away. No Leroy Carter who had a good

435
00:22:41,253 --> 00:22:45,533
Speaker 3: season but didn't play well in a poor performance from

436
00:22:45,533 --> 00:22:48,933
Speaker 3: the Chiefs in the final. No Chefihaki, who was called

437
00:22:48,933 --> 00:22:52,133
Speaker 3: in last year very surprising from outside the squad as

438
00:22:52,133 --> 00:22:54,493
Speaker 3: a training partner. So very much same same In the

439
00:22:54,493 --> 00:22:58,133
Speaker 3: back three, Ruben loves there as a wing fallback and

440
00:22:58,293 --> 00:23:01,733
Speaker 3: first five option. Mark Talia not selected because he's going

441
00:23:01,773 --> 00:23:04,253
Speaker 3: to Japan. What do you make of the back three?

442
00:23:05,053 --> 00:23:08,933
Speaker 2: It does feel same same, I don't Yeah, I mean Seevarese.

443
00:23:09,653 --> 00:23:12,893
Speaker 2: I didn't pick him in my squad last week. I

444
00:23:12,893 --> 00:23:14,893
Speaker 2: thought he had a very good Super Rugby final. I

445
00:23:14,893 --> 00:23:18,173
Speaker 2: thought he was very very good for the Crusaders on

446
00:23:18,253 --> 00:23:20,653
Speaker 2: the night and seems to have a wee bit of

447
00:23:20,653 --> 00:23:23,893
Speaker 2: his paceback in the game, which he was probably lacking

448
00:23:23,933 --> 00:23:25,773
Speaker 2: last year. Now what he's done to do that, I'm

449
00:23:25,773 --> 00:23:28,213
Speaker 2: not entirely sure, but we saw him get run down

450
00:23:29,493 --> 00:23:33,293
Speaker 2: against Louis belle Bid in the French Test. I kind

451
00:23:33,293 --> 00:23:34,733
Speaker 2: of felt that his time for a changing at the

452
00:23:34,733 --> 00:23:37,733
Speaker 2: guard in the Wings, but clearly the All Blacks don't

453
00:23:38,213 --> 00:23:40,973
Speaker 2: at this point. Cadob Clark didn't score a try during

454
00:23:41,013 --> 00:23:45,573
Speaker 2: Super Rugby, not entirely his fault. That game plan probably

455
00:23:45,573 --> 00:23:47,813
Speaker 2: doesn't suit the Wings, although mrke Clear managed to bag

456
00:23:47,853 --> 00:23:50,933
Speaker 2: a few. It does feel same same would have like

457
00:23:50,973 --> 00:23:55,013
Speaker 2: see Cadob Pung guitar have a longer Super Rugby season

458
00:23:55,013 --> 00:23:58,253
Speaker 2: with the Highlanders rather than get injured. That was unfortunate

459
00:23:58,293 --> 00:24:00,493
Speaker 2: timing if he was able to push his case a

460
00:24:00,493 --> 00:24:02,373
Speaker 2: little bit more. This is Jackie Brod of MA to

461
00:24:02,493 --> 00:24:05,893
Speaker 2: UK Neepkins as well, but very much a fullback option

462
00:24:06,013 --> 00:24:09,373
Speaker 2: rather than a wing, so it does feel same. Would

463
00:24:09,413 --> 00:24:12,533
Speaker 2: have liked to see one of them that Leroy Carter

464
00:24:12,613 --> 00:24:16,413
Speaker 2: probably get in the mix and and push their claims

465
00:24:16,453 --> 00:24:17,653
Speaker 2: a little bit further. What did you make of the

466
00:24:17,653 --> 00:24:18,373
Speaker 2: outside backs?

467
00:24:18,493 --> 00:24:20,893
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think the chief swingers are hard done by.

468
00:24:21,133 --> 00:24:26,613
Speaker 3: They were the form finishers all year. That changed to

469
00:24:26,653 --> 00:24:29,933
Speaker 3: a degree when the final squeeze came on, when the

470
00:24:30,973 --> 00:24:33,973
Speaker 3: weather changed and the pressure came on and there wasn't

471
00:24:34,013 --> 00:24:37,133
Speaker 3: that same space and room to move, and the high

472
00:24:37,133 --> 00:24:39,693
Speaker 3: ball was a lot more prevalent. I thought Lero o'cartera

473
00:24:39,733 --> 00:24:43,053
Speaker 3: in particular was a wee bit exposed there at the

474
00:24:43,093 --> 00:24:46,813
Speaker 3: weekends with the Crusaders barrows and the way they targeted

475
00:24:46,933 --> 00:24:50,373
Speaker 3: the Chiefs backfield had a lot of success there. I

476
00:24:50,373 --> 00:24:55,053
Speaker 3: would have liked to have seen Carter included because he

477
00:24:55,133 --> 00:24:56,733
Speaker 3: has a point of difference again with just with that

478
00:24:56,813 --> 00:25:00,413
Speaker 3: out and outpace and amani At I'm a big fan

479
00:25:00,493 --> 00:25:04,133
Speaker 3: of very silky player, got all the skills, a pretty

480
00:25:04,133 --> 00:25:07,893
Speaker 3: good kicking game, sound under the high ball, highly involved,

481
00:25:08,013 --> 00:25:10,973
Speaker 3: so I would like to see him get a crack.

482
00:25:11,653 --> 00:25:15,893
Speaker 3: I guess you've got flexibility there with Tavatavanahwa, but I

483
00:25:15,933 --> 00:25:19,053
Speaker 3: don't he doesn't have the pace to be an international wing,

484
00:25:19,773 --> 00:25:22,453
Speaker 3: so I think midfield is his best position. You have

485
00:25:22,533 --> 00:25:28,213
Speaker 3: flexibility with Rikowane potentially pushing out to the wing, and

486
00:25:28,213 --> 00:25:29,773
Speaker 3: I think we will see We did see a bit

487
00:25:29,813 --> 00:25:31,733
Speaker 3: of that last year. I think we will see a

488
00:25:31,773 --> 00:25:35,653
Speaker 3: little bit more of that. So there is versatility within

489
00:25:35,693 --> 00:25:39,893
Speaker 3: that squad. But yeah, I'm with you on Savories. I

490
00:25:39,933 --> 00:25:42,773
Speaker 3: don't see him being in the World Cup squad.

491
00:25:43,333 --> 00:25:46,533
Speaker 2: Yeah. Wing is very much a form, always traditionally been

492
00:25:46,573 --> 00:25:48,533
Speaker 2: a form selection for the al bleckxing, and you have

493
00:25:48,573 --> 00:25:52,573
Speaker 2: had long term winners Palette, Wilson, Lombu, you know, apart

494
00:25:52,613 --> 00:25:56,253
Speaker 2: from his illness, et cetera. But more recently it's trended

495
00:25:56,253 --> 00:26:01,653
Speaker 2: towards the hot hand. You know, why, sucking a holder

496
00:26:01,773 --> 00:26:04,133
Speaker 2: for a period of time, Julian Sava for a period

497
00:26:04,133 --> 00:26:08,013
Speaker 2: of time, Ema Scudder, you know, probably the biggest example

498
00:26:08,693 --> 00:26:11,453
Speaker 2: of that, George Bridge. You know, some of those players

499
00:26:11,453 --> 00:26:14,093
Speaker 2: have cycled through a lot of wingers in recent times

500
00:26:14,093 --> 00:26:15,773
Speaker 2: and it kind of felt like maybe the key should

501
00:26:15,813 --> 00:26:19,773
Speaker 2: have been handed over a little bit. But to the

502
00:26:19,813 --> 00:26:22,133
Speaker 2: extent that Carter and Nutowa played good seasons, they weren't

503
00:26:22,173 --> 00:26:26,133
Speaker 2: banging down the door necessarily either, and so they've gone

504
00:26:26,133 --> 00:26:28,653
Speaker 2: with the tried and true. And I guess now for

505
00:26:28,973 --> 00:26:33,293
Speaker 2: someone like Sevie Reese who has been selected and maybe

506
00:26:34,893 --> 00:26:37,053
Speaker 2: didn't have the greatest of all black seasons last year

507
00:26:37,133 --> 00:26:40,573
Speaker 2: started strongly and faded, you know, some big questions come

508
00:26:40,613 --> 00:26:42,613
Speaker 2: to him when he gets his opportunities in some point

509
00:26:42,613 --> 00:26:43,413
Speaker 2: in this French series.

510
00:26:43,933 --> 00:26:47,293
Speaker 3: Yeah, particularly as a wing right, you're always looking over

511
00:26:47,333 --> 00:26:50,293
Speaker 3: your shoulder because New Zealand is generally blessed with good

512
00:26:50,333 --> 00:26:54,253
Speaker 3: outside backs and lessifying a nook who is another example

513
00:26:54,253 --> 00:26:57,693
Speaker 3: of somebody who hears that versatility value, a versatility within

514
00:26:57,733 --> 00:27:01,173
Speaker 3: a squad. Yeah, I wanted to touch on the first

515
00:27:01,213 --> 00:27:04,533
Speaker 3: fives as well. Reuben Love is the third choice ten

516
00:27:04,773 --> 00:27:07,773
Speaker 3: and the squads. Stephen Peter Fetter was listed as unavailable,

517
00:27:07,813 --> 00:27:10,813
Speaker 3: so least on the Raider barely played for the Blues

518
00:27:10,813 --> 00:27:14,613
Speaker 3: this year because of that calf injury. Should we be

519
00:27:14,653 --> 00:27:18,453
Speaker 3: concerned about the depth of New Zealand rugby at ten?

520
00:27:20,053 --> 00:27:24,933
Speaker 2: Yes, I think we should be. Bot and Barratt will

521
00:27:24,933 --> 00:27:27,053
Speaker 2: start the first testing in Eden. You would suspect Damian

522
00:27:27,133 --> 00:27:29,453
Speaker 2: mckinsy is going to get some opportunities there as well

523
00:27:29,493 --> 00:27:38,533
Speaker 2: this year. To be honest, I think lacking, you know,

524
00:27:38,813 --> 00:27:42,373
Speaker 2: a real game driver that is going to take you

525
00:27:42,373 --> 00:27:43,853
Speaker 2: into the twenty twenty seven World Cup.

526
00:27:44,013 --> 00:27:47,333
Speaker 3: I don't think room Love is ready to not ready

527
00:27:47,333 --> 00:27:47,653
Speaker 3: to start.

528
00:27:49,213 --> 00:27:51,213
Speaker 2: Jacob not ready to start a test ten Rivers, Rahara

529
00:27:51,253 --> 00:27:52,893
Speaker 2: not ready to start a test at ten Taha Kim

530
00:27:53,293 --> 00:27:55,413
Speaker 2: looks promising for the Crusaders, then got injured. Not ready

531
00:27:55,413 --> 00:27:58,413
Speaker 2: to start, you know. So there's some promising players there,

532
00:28:00,053 --> 00:28:02,133
Speaker 2: and Bart and Damie Kinsey have done a good job

533
00:28:02,133 --> 00:28:03,933
Speaker 2: for the All Black silvery number of years.

534
00:28:03,933 --> 00:28:06,093
Speaker 3: And you do have Riching Mooree coming back next year.

535
00:28:06,733 --> 00:28:07,453
Speaker 2: If he comes back.

536
00:28:07,533 --> 00:28:09,853
Speaker 3: Let's look at the product line, right, Yeah, these are

537
00:28:11,893 --> 00:28:14,853
Speaker 3: not stop gap measures, but these are aging first fives.

538
00:28:15,013 --> 00:28:17,493
Speaker 3: And McKenzie, to be fair, has signed on to twenty

539
00:28:17,533 --> 00:28:19,093
Speaker 3: twenty nine. I think it is so he's going to

540
00:28:19,133 --> 00:28:22,133
Speaker 3: be around a long time, but there's still questions about

541
00:28:22,333 --> 00:28:25,813
Speaker 3: his ability to command and direct the game, not just

542
00:28:25,853 --> 00:28:27,093
Speaker 3: at test level but as.

543
00:28:26,933 --> 00:28:29,533
Speaker 2: Of say, yeah, we'll get into some of those.

544
00:28:29,453 --> 00:28:31,613
Speaker 3: Back end of super rugby when the pressure comes on.

545
00:28:31,733 --> 00:28:36,493
Speaker 3: So these contenders coming through, I think there's a lot

546
00:28:36,493 --> 00:28:37,053
Speaker 3: of work to do.

547
00:28:37,213 --> 00:28:40,253
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think Boden Barrett has got a big

548
00:28:40,293 --> 00:28:44,813
Speaker 2: opportunity to take the position by the scruff of the

549
00:28:44,813 --> 00:28:47,693
Speaker 2: neck because we saw last year that the All Blacks

550
00:28:47,693 --> 00:28:50,333
Speaker 2: gave Damien McKenzie chances and then after that letters low

551
00:28:50,333 --> 00:28:53,973
Speaker 2: in Sydney where it all turned to shit after a

552
00:28:54,093 --> 00:28:56,453
Speaker 2: very very strong start that they went cold on him.

553
00:28:56,653 --> 00:28:58,533
Speaker 2: He came back in and started that Test against Ireland.

554
00:28:58,533 --> 00:29:00,133
Speaker 2: It was very very good that night and the All

555
00:29:00,133 --> 00:29:02,973
Speaker 2: Black's best. But I think Boden Barret's got the opportunity

556
00:29:03,013 --> 00:29:06,093
Speaker 2: first and foremost, and for me, he's got the opportunity

557
00:29:06,133 --> 00:29:09,453
Speaker 2: to signal and the first two tests whatever he starts

558
00:29:09,453 --> 00:29:11,533
Speaker 2: in this July window that I am the All Blacks

559
00:29:12,213 --> 00:29:14,493
Speaker 2: ten at the Rugby World Cup in twenty twenty seven

560
00:29:14,493 --> 00:29:15,933
Speaker 2: and we don't need rich and wanting to come back.

561
00:29:15,973 --> 00:29:18,333
Speaker 2: He might come back, but we don't need him. That's

562
00:29:18,373 --> 00:29:20,573
Speaker 2: the kind of message that he's got the possibility to see.

563
00:29:20,653 --> 00:29:23,053
Speaker 2: Now whether he takes it, there's another matter entirely. But

564
00:29:23,093 --> 00:29:25,933
Speaker 2: I think you know, Boden Barrett to me strikes me

565
00:29:26,013 --> 00:29:27,973
Speaker 2: as the player that has the ability to more so

566
00:29:28,093 --> 00:29:32,293
Speaker 2: to transform his game into that traditional ten type archetype.

567
00:29:32,853 --> 00:29:35,293
Speaker 2: As his career goes on, he can't take on the

568
00:29:35,293 --> 00:29:36,693
Speaker 2: line as much as he used to, hasn't got that

569
00:29:36,733 --> 00:29:38,733
Speaker 2: out and outpace that he used to because he's aged.

570
00:29:38,733 --> 00:29:41,093
Speaker 2: That happens to everyone, but to me, I think he's

571
00:29:41,093 --> 00:29:43,173
Speaker 2: got the ability in his game to adapt to that.

572
00:29:43,373 --> 00:29:45,093
Speaker 2: What you need out of a ten a game driver,

573
00:29:46,813 --> 00:29:48,613
Speaker 2: and we need to see it from Bode Barrett.

574
00:29:49,093 --> 00:29:52,013
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm with you. I don't think there's any choice

575
00:29:53,093 --> 00:29:56,133
Speaker 3: right now that Boden is the first choice number ten.

576
00:29:57,213 --> 00:30:00,453
Speaker 3: But the all blocks are one injury away from Ruben

577
00:30:00,533 --> 00:30:05,133
Speaker 3: Love potentially playing a significant role at first five, and

578
00:30:05,453 --> 00:30:09,573
Speaker 3: for me that's a concern. Ruben only played what four

579
00:30:09,653 --> 00:30:11,853
Speaker 3: games for the Canes at ten this year, doesn't have

580
00:30:11,893 --> 00:30:15,133
Speaker 3: a lot of experience, has a lot of potential, but

581
00:30:15,253 --> 00:30:16,613
Speaker 3: has a lot of work to do, so I think

582
00:30:16,933 --> 00:30:22,693
Speaker 3: that's one area of concern depth wise, I also wanted

583
00:30:22,693 --> 00:30:25,413
Speaker 3: to touch on Quinte Pie big return. Yeah, what's it

584
00:30:25,453 --> 00:30:26,413
Speaker 3: been three years?

585
00:30:26,493 --> 00:30:30,053
Speaker 2: Three years since it was Marvel Stadium. I think it

586
00:30:30,093 --> 00:30:32,613
Speaker 2: was twenty twenty two when Darcy Swain took a liking

587
00:30:32,613 --> 00:30:37,133
Speaker 2: to Quinn's league. You know, somewhere one point I thought,

588
00:30:37,253 --> 00:30:40,613
Speaker 2: is it going to happen again for Quinte Pie? This

589
00:30:40,693 --> 00:30:42,533
Speaker 2: year it showed that it is going to happen again

590
00:30:42,773 --> 00:30:45,773
Speaker 2: and he's real and whether it's taken him two plus

591
00:30:45,853 --> 00:30:48,493
Speaker 2: years to get the confidence back in the league and

592
00:30:48,853 --> 00:30:50,693
Speaker 2: be ready to play the kind of role that got

593
00:30:50,733 --> 00:30:52,453
Speaker 2: him into the All Blacks in the first place. I

594
00:30:52,493 --> 00:30:54,813
Speaker 2: don't know, but boy am I glad to see him

595
00:30:54,813 --> 00:30:56,893
Speaker 2: there because he's that kind of twelve that can get

596
00:30:56,893 --> 00:30:58,533
Speaker 2: you gain line, as we talked about at the top,

597
00:30:58,733 --> 00:31:01,773
Speaker 2: get you over the advantage line, and set you up

598
00:31:01,813 --> 00:31:04,453
Speaker 2: on attack. He's the kind of twelve that the All

599
00:31:04,453 --> 00:31:07,453
Speaker 2: Blacks really really need. Jordi barrettsy incumbent twelve. So it's

600
00:31:07,453 --> 00:31:10,373
Speaker 2: going to be a fascinating we selection mix because Quintepie

601
00:31:10,413 --> 00:31:12,613
Speaker 2: can play thirteen. Hasn't done a lot of it in

602
00:31:12,693 --> 00:31:16,653
Speaker 2: recent times for either the Chiefs. He's played a bit

603
00:31:16,693 --> 00:31:19,733
Speaker 2: on the wing, but in general, it is just good

604
00:31:19,733 --> 00:31:21,573
Speaker 2: to see quinte Pie back and playing at the top

605
00:31:21,573 --> 00:31:22,213
Speaker 2: of his game again.

606
00:31:22,773 --> 00:31:26,373
Speaker 3: Quintepie is a guy that has shown obvious, obvious resilience

607
00:31:26,373 --> 00:31:29,293
Speaker 3: to come back from that horrific knee injury. He's a

608
00:31:29,293 --> 00:31:33,573
Speaker 3: guy that now maybe you always but maybe now more so,

609
00:31:33,773 --> 00:31:36,373
Speaker 3: knows his game, knows his strengths and plays to them.

610
00:31:36,653 --> 00:31:40,493
Speaker 3: He is very physical you touched on that ball, carrying ability,

611
00:31:40,573 --> 00:31:43,853
Speaker 3: punch over the game line, and he hits hard, particularly

612
00:31:43,853 --> 00:31:47,693
Speaker 3: particularly if you're running directly at him. So he's also

613
00:31:47,693 --> 00:31:50,413
Speaker 3: added some finest skills to his game with a kicking

614
00:31:50,773 --> 00:31:56,973
Speaker 3: ability in recent times, so fully deserving of his selection there.

615
00:31:57,093 --> 00:31:59,213
Speaker 3: But yeah, the All Blacks do have too many twelves.

616
00:31:59,493 --> 00:32:03,893
Speaker 3: Quinte Pier, Jordie Barrett's Tavetavnawa you would class as a

617
00:32:03,973 --> 00:32:09,973
Speaker 3: twelve and Antonina Brown that's four. Anton can very seamlessly

618
00:32:10,013 --> 00:32:12,333
Speaker 3: play second and center. But there's four second fives in

619
00:32:12,373 --> 00:32:14,013
Speaker 3: that squad. That that's too many, isn't it?

620
00:32:14,013 --> 00:32:18,813
Speaker 2: It is too many? Interesting balance given they've gone for

621
00:32:18,853 --> 00:32:24,053
Speaker 2: so many midfielders is which I didn't necessarily pick Billy Procton,

622
00:32:24,093 --> 00:32:27,013
Speaker 2: Rico Yuanni, two very good thirteens. It's gonna be interesting

623
00:32:27,053 --> 00:32:30,493
Speaker 2: to see what happens in regards to that. But they

624
00:32:30,533 --> 00:32:34,133
Speaker 2: haven't explored any further depth beyond that and the balance

625
00:32:34,173 --> 00:32:36,093
Speaker 2: of the squad. I mean, who's the next thirteen that

626
00:32:36,093 --> 00:32:38,173
Speaker 2: could possibly come through? Is it someone that Brandon Enmoor

627
00:32:38,213 --> 00:32:39,333
Speaker 2: gets back in the mix.

628
00:32:39,453 --> 00:32:43,933
Speaker 3: Well, Anton's can player as well, so you've got three there. Well.

629
00:32:44,013 --> 00:32:47,133
Speaker 3: The other one we haven't touched on is Faban Hollands. Yeah.

630
00:32:47,173 --> 00:32:51,733
Speaker 3: The first Netherlands born All Black. What an amazing story.

631
00:32:51,773 --> 00:32:55,733
Speaker 3: A guy that dreamed a dream and made it a reality.

632
00:32:55,973 --> 00:33:00,693
Speaker 3: Came to christ Church six months scholarship, went to Fash

633
00:33:00,853 --> 00:33:04,693
Speaker 3: Boys High School, saw the Light, went to Dunedin. Has

634
00:33:04,733 --> 00:33:07,893
Speaker 3: put an immense amount of work into his game and

635
00:33:08,093 --> 00:33:11,613
Speaker 3: boy is here a big human and from all accounts,

636
00:33:11,693 --> 00:33:14,093
Speaker 3: the way he came into that all black environment as

637
00:33:14,133 --> 00:33:16,333
Speaker 3: a training partner of the back end of last year,

638
00:33:16,733 --> 00:33:19,973
Speaker 3: there's every indication that he is gonna not take Test

639
00:33:20,053 --> 00:33:24,573
Speaker 3: rugby by storm, but certainly hit the ground running.

640
00:33:24,493 --> 00:33:29,133
Speaker 2: Absolutely and deserving of his opportunity. He's been very very

641
00:33:29,133 --> 00:33:32,493
Speaker 2: good for the Honds in Super rugby this year and

642
00:33:33,453 --> 00:33:36,213
Speaker 2: I think he has a bit of Brodie Retallic about him,

643
00:33:36,333 --> 00:33:40,693
Speaker 2: and whether he realizes that potential is another matter entirely.

644
00:33:40,733 --> 00:33:43,493
Speaker 2: But he's got that body profile of a Brodie retallic

645
00:33:43,613 --> 00:33:47,253
Speaker 2: and very very good with ball in hands, good defensively,

646
00:33:47,293 --> 00:33:50,773
Speaker 2: will hit anything that moves. Really like this selection and

647
00:33:50,813 --> 00:33:52,813
Speaker 2: it's gonna be fascinating to see how they integrate him

648
00:33:52,853 --> 00:33:56,773
Speaker 2: into All Blacks twenty three. They've got Patrick three plot,

649
00:33:56,853 --> 00:33:58,653
Speaker 2: They've got Fabian Horn, They've got two po VII who

650
00:33:58,653 --> 00:34:00,533
Speaker 2: had an excellent All Blacks year last year and they've

651
00:34:00,533 --> 00:34:03,693
Speaker 2: got the Captain Scott Barrett. It's an interesting juggling act

652
00:34:03,773 --> 00:34:06,693
Speaker 2: and one of those locks won't be Fabian Horned, won't

653
00:34:06,693 --> 00:34:08,853
Speaker 2: be Patrick three. Plot two is you want to cover

654
00:34:09,333 --> 00:34:11,813
Speaker 2: in the loose forwards as well? Robertson said today.

655
00:34:12,173 --> 00:34:14,893
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an interesting point, isn't it. So VII and

656
00:34:15,093 --> 00:34:19,573
Speaker 3: Scott Barrett have both started tests at blindside and that's

657
00:34:19,613 --> 00:34:24,213
Speaker 3: why they felt comfortable to go with five loose forwards.

658
00:34:24,693 --> 00:34:27,533
Speaker 3: But it also does show that the perennial question of

659
00:34:27,613 --> 00:34:31,893
Speaker 3: who the All Blacks six is remains open because we

660
00:34:32,013 --> 00:34:35,413
Speaker 3: asked Jason Ryan about where the wallasy tt will go

661
00:34:35,453 --> 00:34:39,053
Speaker 3: to eight and artists veta seven as everyone expects, and

662
00:34:39,213 --> 00:34:43,133
Speaker 3: it was reasonably guarded. But I think we certainly will

663
00:34:43,173 --> 00:34:48,173
Speaker 3: see that. So whether it's seven penny female or somebody else,

664
00:34:48,653 --> 00:34:51,133
Speaker 3: they need someone needs to stand up at six.

665
00:34:51,293 --> 00:34:53,853
Speaker 2: That's a great segue into our chat with Jason Ryan

666
00:34:54,053 --> 00:34:56,173
Speaker 2: at the Coast of Rugby Club today.

667
00:34:56,533 --> 00:34:59,213
Speaker 3: Well, Jason, start off of your area of expertise, mate,

668
00:34:59,573 --> 00:35:03,893
Speaker 3: how did Olie Norrish bash his way down the front door.

669
00:35:04,293 --> 00:35:06,773
Speaker 6: Yeah, we've been pretty impressed with Oli in the last

670
00:35:06,773 --> 00:35:09,053
Speaker 6: couple of years. To be honest, I think this year

671
00:35:09,093 --> 00:35:13,213
Speaker 6: he's been incredibly accurate in his role. His big body's

672
00:35:13,253 --> 00:35:15,853
Speaker 6: built it nice, he's an excluse forward. He's dynamic around

673
00:35:15,893 --> 00:35:18,413
Speaker 6: the park both sides of the ball. So there's a

674
00:35:18,453 --> 00:35:20,093
Speaker 6: lot to like about him, and we feel that it's

675
00:35:20,573 --> 00:35:23,653
Speaker 6: time to bring in a younger Loose said, and it's

676
00:35:23,653 --> 00:35:24,693
Speaker 6: a great opportunity for him.

677
00:35:25,453 --> 00:35:27,613
Speaker 3: Did you play effect there because I guess George Bauer

678
00:35:28,133 --> 00:35:30,893
Speaker 3: is a guy that's been there, done that, but you've

679
00:35:30,933 --> 00:35:32,253
Speaker 3: gone with the younger buck.

680
00:35:32,293 --> 00:35:34,253
Speaker 6: I guess yeah, we know, we know George is there,

681
00:35:34,253 --> 00:35:37,133
Speaker 6: and we thought he played well in the final series.

682
00:35:37,173 --> 00:35:40,053
Speaker 6: I think Olie's played well consistently all year, So you

683
00:35:40,093 --> 00:35:41,373
Speaker 6: know you've got to you've got to look at that

684
00:35:42,773 --> 00:35:46,253
Speaker 6: and you know we've got We prided ourselves on selecting

685
00:35:46,253 --> 00:35:48,173
Speaker 6: a team that's four to five deep because we know

686
00:35:48,253 --> 00:35:49,893
Speaker 6: that there'll be injuries and we'll know that you can

687
00:35:49,933 --> 00:35:53,013
Speaker 6: never have enough props, so it was important for us

688
00:35:53,053 --> 00:35:54,653
Speaker 6: in the first selection to get him in.

689
00:35:55,253 --> 00:35:59,493
Speaker 3: Broughden Callister went to the Chiefs and has forced his

690
00:35:59,533 --> 00:36:01,693
Speaker 3: way in as well, ahead of a guy like George Bell.

691
00:36:02,453 --> 00:36:03,693
Speaker 3: What goes into that selection.

692
00:36:04,493 --> 00:36:07,333
Speaker 6: Brodie's really earned the right, he's been durable and he's

693
00:36:07,333 --> 00:36:11,733
Speaker 6: been extremely consistent right from game one. Belly came in

694
00:36:11,853 --> 00:36:13,533
Speaker 6: last year when there was an injury to Sonny and

695
00:36:13,933 --> 00:36:16,333
Speaker 6: Brody gets a chance this year there's an injury suffer,

696
00:36:16,413 --> 00:36:18,853
Speaker 6: you know. So again it's that deep side of it

697
00:36:18,893 --> 00:36:21,813
Speaker 6: where you've got to stay on and keep the position competitive.

698
00:36:21,813 --> 00:36:24,813
Speaker 6: But I think Brody has showed some really good collisions

699
00:36:24,853 --> 00:36:28,093
Speaker 6: both sides of the ball. He's a big body and

700
00:36:28,133 --> 00:36:31,653
Speaker 6: we're going to need a good scrumnging hooker and against France.

701
00:36:32,013 --> 00:36:34,733
Speaker 3: Always a lot of interest in the loose forwards. You've

702
00:36:34,773 --> 00:36:39,293
Speaker 3: gone five there and some big games, missing two per

703
00:36:39,293 --> 00:36:42,373
Speaker 3: c comes in. How does that filter down round the

704
00:36:42,373 --> 00:36:44,213
Speaker 3: selection table for.

705
00:36:44,293 --> 00:36:45,013
Speaker 2: The for the mix.

706
00:36:45,453 --> 00:36:47,933
Speaker 6: Yeah, so look, you know, we saw how good art

707
00:36:47,973 --> 00:36:50,373
Speaker 6: he was and we believe that two per c this year,

708
00:36:50,733 --> 00:36:53,373
Speaker 6: probably the last couple of years, has really earned the right.

709
00:36:53,453 --> 00:36:55,133
Speaker 6: I think it's been a great story for Dupe. So

710
00:36:55,173 --> 00:36:57,813
Speaker 6: I think he's might have been twenty twenty he first

711
00:36:57,813 --> 00:37:00,933
Speaker 6: came in and he's gone away, and that's an example

712
00:37:00,933 --> 00:37:02,813
Speaker 6: of a player who really really wants to be an

713
00:37:02,813 --> 00:37:05,693
Speaker 6: All Black. And I think the leadership roles that he's

714
00:37:05,733 --> 00:37:08,493
Speaker 6: had with Wellington and the Kynes bought the best out

715
00:37:08,493 --> 00:37:11,693
Speaker 6: of them and we're seeing that. So and then obviously

716
00:37:11,733 --> 00:37:13,733
Speaker 6: we've got we've got Wallace there and we know how

717
00:37:13,733 --> 00:37:16,853
Speaker 6: consistent Lucas and Samma penny Fee. Now we thought he

718
00:37:17,013 --> 00:37:19,213
Speaker 6: had a really good Northern tour last year, the back

719
00:37:19,333 --> 00:37:21,853
Speaker 6: end he got. You know, there's a couple of things

720
00:37:21,853 --> 00:37:24,053
Speaker 6: were tidy up in his game and we'll be clear

721
00:37:24,093 --> 00:37:27,013
Speaker 6: around that. But I think up until that French week

722
00:37:27,013 --> 00:37:28,853
Speaker 6: where he got knocked down and Test one, he'd had

723
00:37:28,853 --> 00:37:30,493
Speaker 6: a real good training week and we thought he was

724
00:37:30,573 --> 00:37:31,773
Speaker 6: really ready to go.

725
00:37:31,893 --> 00:37:32,813
Speaker 2: So we'll keep.

726
00:37:32,693 --> 00:37:35,053
Speaker 6: Backing them in and and we've also got some locks

727
00:37:35,093 --> 00:37:36,213
Speaker 6: that can cover six as well.

728
00:37:36,733 --> 00:37:40,093
Speaker 3: Do you see Wallace going to and to seven or

729
00:37:40,173 --> 00:37:41,533
Speaker 3: you're still open at the stage?

730
00:37:42,693 --> 00:37:43,373
Speaker 2: What do you reckon?

731
00:37:44,573 --> 00:37:47,333
Speaker 6: Oh, look, it's it's a it's a good combination that

732
00:37:47,373 --> 00:37:49,293
Speaker 6: we've got up our sleeve.

733
00:37:49,373 --> 00:37:53,173
Speaker 2: Definitely. Yeah. Always players that go close and miss out

734
00:37:53,213 --> 00:37:56,133
Speaker 2: Dopp and Papliga, even black edarthing part of previous squads before.

735
00:37:56,533 --> 00:37:58,693
Speaker 5: Wats your message for those players that have missed out

736
00:37:58,693 --> 00:37:58,973
Speaker 5: this time?

737
00:37:59,093 --> 00:38:00,653
Speaker 6: Yeah, we'll stay in touch, you know, we'll have the

738
00:38:00,693 --> 00:38:03,173
Speaker 6: care package and get around the boys that do you know,

739
00:38:03,293 --> 00:38:06,293
Speaker 6: Raizor makes the phone calls this morning, which are not nice,

740
00:38:06,293 --> 00:38:07,853
Speaker 6: and then it's my job to follow up. You know,

741
00:38:07,933 --> 00:38:10,053
Speaker 6: we had a bit of a get together last week

742
00:38:10,093 --> 00:38:12,173
Speaker 6: in the Mountain. Dults was there and we had a

743
00:38:12,173 --> 00:38:13,413
Speaker 6: good catch up and where.

744
00:38:13,173 --> 00:38:13,813
Speaker 2: He was at, and.

745
00:38:15,373 --> 00:38:17,493
Speaker 6: Yeah, I've got no doubt that he'll go away and

746
00:38:17,533 --> 00:38:20,133
Speaker 6: work hard and because he's been a good All Black

747
00:38:20,173 --> 00:38:22,333
Speaker 6: and He've got no doubt he'll keep chopping away on

748
00:38:22,413 --> 00:38:22,893
Speaker 6: his craft.

749
00:38:23,173 --> 00:38:25,893
Speaker 5: Ethan just kissing out on he was it a balance

750
00:38:25,933 --> 00:38:26,653
Speaker 5: thing or a mixed thing?

751
00:38:26,733 --> 00:38:28,173
Speaker 2: Yeah, potentially, Yeah, I think so.

752
00:38:28,293 --> 00:38:31,933
Speaker 6: Look, it's we just believe where sammer Penny's at and

753
00:38:32,013 --> 00:38:34,653
Speaker 6: that the accuracy Luke brings sort of with a few

754
00:38:34,693 --> 00:38:38,093
Speaker 6: positions probably gets a nod there. But you know, look

755
00:38:38,133 --> 00:38:39,773
Speaker 6: it's the All Blacks. He's always going to be team

756
00:38:39,933 --> 00:38:42,853
Speaker 6: players miss out and it makes that job hard, but

757
00:38:42,933 --> 00:38:45,333
Speaker 6: it's not supposed to be easy, so we just get

758
00:38:45,333 --> 00:38:45,653
Speaker 6: on with it.

759
00:38:45,653 --> 00:38:47,373
Speaker 5: You know, Fabian Holland's a great story.

760
00:38:47,533 --> 00:38:50,453
Speaker 2: And you know, coming from the Netherlands and going to

761
00:38:50,453 --> 00:38:53,053
Speaker 2: school here and and now eligible for the All Blacks,

762
00:38:53,813 --> 00:38:55,333
Speaker 2: what did you make of a superifing.

763
00:38:55,853 --> 00:38:59,213
Speaker 6: I think he's been exceptional. There's a lot to like

764
00:38:59,253 --> 00:39:03,413
Speaker 6: about Fabian. I think he embraces the contest all the time,

765
00:39:03,773 --> 00:39:05,733
Speaker 6: whether he's got the ball or he hasn't got the ball.

766
00:39:06,533 --> 00:39:09,653
Speaker 6: Obviously a phenomenal line out forward who's learning his craft,

767
00:39:09,813 --> 00:39:13,173
Speaker 6: who's exceptional last year for the All Black fifteen against Munster,

768
00:39:13,653 --> 00:39:15,453
Speaker 6: and then he came in the back end and we

769
00:39:15,493 --> 00:39:18,053
Speaker 6: saw some things that you know, looked pretty good and

770
00:39:18,093 --> 00:39:20,293
Speaker 6: we believe he's got a big future young man.

771
00:39:20,333 --> 00:39:21,253
Speaker 2: That's all in front of him.

772
00:39:22,253 --> 00:39:24,213
Speaker 5: I guess left last year and getting into this year.

773
00:39:24,253 --> 00:39:26,173
Speaker 2: What are the things is a forward path that you're

774
00:39:26,213 --> 00:39:26,933
Speaker 2: looking to improve.

775
00:39:27,413 --> 00:39:29,853
Speaker 6: Oh, we're always looking to step forward into our opposition.

776
00:39:29,973 --> 00:39:32,053
Speaker 6: We need to make sure that our big rocks of

777
00:39:32,053 --> 00:39:35,013
Speaker 6: our game are really dialed in. I think you saw

778
00:39:35,053 --> 00:39:36,573
Speaker 6: at the back end of Super Rugby. I think it

779
00:39:36,613 --> 00:39:39,333
Speaker 6: was thirty four scrum penalties in the final series. All

780
00:39:39,373 --> 00:39:41,693
Speaker 6: the teams that had the dominant scrum went all the way.

781
00:39:41,813 --> 00:39:44,733
Speaker 6: So that's an important one of those big fundamental specially

782
00:39:44,733 --> 00:39:47,413
Speaker 6: when we look at France and just quality of our

783
00:39:47,413 --> 00:39:49,053
Speaker 6: acuracy of how we finish games, and.

784
00:39:49,093 --> 00:39:51,893
Speaker 5: Just on Lucas that a concussioned protocol.

785
00:39:51,533 --> 00:39:55,173
Speaker 6: Wave Gordon Yeap just going through an HIA protocol yet

786
00:39:56,493 --> 00:39:58,253
Speaker 6: a few bangs after the final She's the hell of

787
00:39:58,293 --> 00:39:59,933
Speaker 6: a contest, so we just got to make sure that

788
00:39:59,973 --> 00:40:00,733
Speaker 6: we don't rush that.

789
00:40:00,893 --> 00:40:03,213
Speaker 5: As a forwards coach, must have enjoyed that sort of ding.

790
00:40:03,213 --> 00:40:05,453
Speaker 2: Dong battle, yeah, I did.

791
00:40:05,453 --> 00:40:08,453
Speaker 6: I've enjoyed the last two or three weeks. Really it's

792
00:40:08,493 --> 00:40:11,373
Speaker 6: been probably a little bit more reality of what a

793
00:40:11,493 --> 00:40:14,213
Speaker 6: test matches, you know, So yeah, it's been good.

794
00:40:14,933 --> 00:40:21,853
Speaker 3: Stylistically, we see much of the same or will punters

795
00:40:21,893 --> 00:40:24,493
Speaker 3: be able to see many big shifts in the game

796
00:40:24,533 --> 00:40:25,973
Speaker 3: without giving all your tactics.

797
00:40:26,133 --> 00:40:27,813
Speaker 6: I think we need to get a little bit better

798
00:40:27,853 --> 00:40:31,093
Speaker 6: at our accuracy and our skill sets, and that will

799
00:40:31,133 --> 00:40:33,013
Speaker 6: complement our whole game, you know, whether or not we've

800
00:40:33,013 --> 00:40:35,413
Speaker 6: got to play with power. We believe we've got some

801
00:40:35,453 --> 00:40:37,813
Speaker 6: ball carriers that can genuinely do that upfront, and then

802
00:40:37,933 --> 00:40:40,133
Speaker 6: we've got some backs at a good finishes, you know,

803
00:40:40,293 --> 00:40:44,133
Speaker 6: like we've seen the impact that Jim had on the

804
00:40:44,213 --> 00:40:47,573
Speaker 6: Highlanders and I think that's going to be pretty exciting too.

805
00:40:47,973 --> 00:40:49,573
Speaker 2: Anything else you want to touch on the All Black

806
00:40:49,573 --> 00:40:52,093
Speaker 2: score before we wrap up. I mean we did mention it,

807
00:40:52,133 --> 00:40:53,813
Speaker 2: but dou Plus secretly fear this is a player that,

808
00:40:53,853 --> 00:40:56,573
Speaker 2: to our understanding had a contract offer on the table,

809
00:40:56,653 --> 00:40:58,413
Speaker 2: we set it out right today he added a contract

810
00:40:58,453 --> 00:41:01,333
Speaker 2: offer from Japan to go up there and was close

811
00:41:01,373 --> 00:41:03,813
Speaker 2: to taking it, but didn't want to give up that

812
00:41:03,813 --> 00:41:07,293
Speaker 2: All Black stream. And he's gone out there and at

813
00:41:07,293 --> 00:41:09,253
Speaker 2: some point in this two or three weeks is going

814
00:41:09,253 --> 00:41:10,733
Speaker 2: to take the field as an All Black. It really

815
00:41:10,813 --> 00:41:11,573
Speaker 2: is a great story.

816
00:41:12,173 --> 00:41:16,693
Speaker 3: It is because he's invested in himself and I don't

817
00:41:16,693 --> 00:41:18,973
Speaker 3: want to say hit the jackpop, but that money is

818
00:41:19,013 --> 00:41:21,613
Speaker 3: always going to be there for him now and he

819
00:41:21,693 --> 00:41:25,933
Speaker 3: took a chance and that's paid off. So it is

820
00:41:25,973 --> 00:41:28,933
Speaker 3: it a great story. If you've brought in this conversation

821
00:41:29,053 --> 00:41:31,733
Speaker 3: out to now to just touch on briefly how the

822
00:41:31,773 --> 00:41:34,093
Speaker 3: All Blacks want to play where they need to improve

823
00:41:34,133 --> 00:41:37,373
Speaker 3: this year. I think it is that direct ball carrying,

824
00:41:37,573 --> 00:41:42,413
Speaker 3: it's attacking space, it's having a really dominant full pack

825
00:41:43,173 --> 00:41:46,133
Speaker 3: and finishing better. So I think that's where they're going

826
00:41:46,173 --> 00:41:47,253
Speaker 3: to target some real improvements.

827
00:41:47,293 --> 00:41:49,413
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'd agree with that, and I think certainly the

828
00:41:49,453 --> 00:41:51,773
Speaker 2: finishing and closing out of games stands is the big

829
00:41:51,813 --> 00:41:54,973
Speaker 2: flashing red light that they need to work on from

830
00:41:55,053 --> 00:41:57,733
Speaker 2: season twenty twenty four, and those leads that you mentioned,

831
00:41:58,093 --> 00:41:59,933
Speaker 2: they all had you know the games they lost, they

832
00:41:59,973 --> 00:42:02,493
Speaker 2: led all back side. Shouldn't be doing.

833
00:42:02,333 --> 00:42:04,733
Speaker 3: That, No, and that's where the big shifts need to come.

834
00:42:05,013 --> 00:42:07,933
Speaker 3: Just to shout out to was the men, wasn't it

835
00:42:07,933 --> 00:42:11,413
Speaker 3: on the barbecue and coastal rugby? Was some good see

836
00:42:11,413 --> 00:42:15,893
Speaker 3: some tar tartanaky beef, sausages and petties.

837
00:42:15,973 --> 00:42:20,493
Speaker 2: Yeah, we done an absolute treat Burger Market. So yeah, absolutely,

838
00:42:20,613 --> 00:42:22,973
Speaker 2: it's the way to the media's coffee shop back coffee

839
00:42:23,213 --> 00:42:23,773
Speaker 2: truck as well.

840
00:42:23,853 --> 00:42:25,653
Speaker 3: So yeah, it all went well, kids and tows so

841
00:42:25,773 --> 00:42:26,293
Speaker 3: they had a ball.

842
00:42:26,413 --> 00:42:31,093
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely, all searching out autographs, including you know, Hollie

843
00:42:31,173 --> 00:42:34,573
Speaker 2: Richie al Coholic Banks star. Absolutely right. We'll take a

844
00:42:34,613 --> 00:42:36,853
Speaker 2: break here on Rugby Direct. I've been waiting forty or

845
00:42:36,893 --> 00:42:39,493
Speaker 2: so minutes for this. Let's stick in the Super Rugby

846
00:42:39,533 --> 00:42:40,333
Speaker 2: Final last year later.

847
00:42:40,413 --> 00:42:46,053
Speaker 1: But this is Rugby Direct, a podcast for real rugby fares.

848
00:42:49,893 --> 00:42:54,493
Speaker 2: Ever try try ten sixty six, every tackle get up again.

849
00:42:57,693 --> 00:42:58,333
Speaker 5: Afore I'm not.

850
00:42:58,533 --> 00:42:59,613
Speaker 3: It's Rugby Direct.

851
00:43:01,653 --> 00:43:05,053
Speaker 2: You're back with Rugby Direct, powered by Habits Health, and

852
00:43:05,813 --> 00:43:08,733
Speaker 2: it is time to talk the Super Rugby Final. It

853
00:43:09,013 --> 00:43:14,533
Speaker 2: is the Crusaders sixteen, the Chiefs twelve, and the Crusaders

854
00:43:14,573 --> 00:43:20,693
Speaker 2: win their fifteenth title in Super Rugby and say what

855
00:43:20,813 --> 00:43:23,133
Speaker 2: you like about them, and I will and then next

856
00:43:23,133 --> 00:43:26,853
Speaker 2: to a while. But they know their way to the

857
00:43:26,933 --> 00:43:29,773
Speaker 2: finish line. They know their way to that championship podium

858
00:43:30,533 --> 00:43:34,453
Speaker 2: more than any other team in this competition. And they

859
00:43:34,573 --> 00:43:37,453
Speaker 2: laid it out on Saturday night and were two good

860
00:43:38,133 --> 00:43:40,853
Speaker 2: for a Chiefs team that bossed the regular season, but

861
00:43:40,973 --> 00:43:42,933
Speaker 2: once again fall short. What did you make to the final?

862
00:43:44,173 --> 00:43:47,693
Speaker 3: Wow? Almost fell asleep? You know, it's pretty tough. What not?

863
00:43:47,773 --> 00:43:50,253
Speaker 3: What's happening? Three points in the second.

864
00:43:50,013 --> 00:43:53,013
Speaker 2: Half, so we need mate? Three points is as good

865
00:43:53,053 --> 00:43:53,453
Speaker 2: as gold.

866
00:43:54,613 --> 00:43:59,893
Speaker 3: Look, it's a redemption for the Crusaders, isn't it. Twenty

867
00:44:00,253 --> 00:44:04,293
Speaker 3: twenty four was in the dere and there was a

868
00:44:04,333 --> 00:44:06,493
Speaker 3: lot of factors that went into that. You had Scott

869
00:44:06,573 --> 00:44:09,653
Speaker 3: Robertson being elevated to the All Black shoe Heads, Richie

870
00:44:09,693 --> 00:44:14,853
Speaker 3: Mwonga and Sam Whitelocke, some generational players moving on. The

871
00:44:14,893 --> 00:44:17,453
Speaker 3: Crusaders obviously had a raft of injuries. You had Robert

872
00:44:17,453 --> 00:44:21,093
Speaker 3: Penny coming in, but it was a real low point

873
00:44:21,213 --> 00:44:26,333
Speaker 3: for a champion franchise to win four games to miss

874
00:44:26,373 --> 00:44:29,533
Speaker 3: the playoffs for the first time since twenty fifteen. You

875
00:44:29,653 --> 00:44:33,413
Speaker 3: and I are not alone here. We felt they should

876
00:44:33,413 --> 00:44:36,813
Speaker 3: move on from Rob Penny. They had a wide ranging

877
00:44:36,893 --> 00:44:38,973
Speaker 3: review which had I don't know what was it, seventy

878
00:44:39,053 --> 00:44:44,853
Speaker 3: on action points. How the review and they made some changes.

879
00:44:44,893 --> 00:44:48,533
Speaker 3: They got some massive pillars back Will Jordan was usually influential,

880
00:44:48,973 --> 00:44:52,573
Speaker 3: Cody Taylor coming back, Scott Barrett's these guys that didn't

881
00:44:52,573 --> 00:44:55,213
Speaker 3: play a lot of rugby in twenty twenty four were

882
00:44:56,173 --> 00:44:59,933
Speaker 3: real pillars. But others stepped up as well, Rivers, Rayhanna

883
00:45:01,013 --> 00:45:06,333
Speaker 3: and others. So look, the Crusaders will really enjoy that.

884
00:45:06,653 --> 00:45:11,813
Speaker 3: And the Chiefs it was a really bad into the

885
00:45:11,853 --> 00:45:16,853
Speaker 3: air for them. They blew home advantage against the bluesep

886
00:45:17,253 --> 00:45:22,413
Speaker 3: and did not fire a shot, really crumbled in the

887
00:45:22,493 --> 00:45:24,773
Speaker 3: second half, in particular that their work under the high

888
00:45:24,813 --> 00:45:30,373
Speaker 3: ball the scrum was dismantled. Damien McKenzie went missing some

889
00:45:30,893 --> 00:45:34,173
Speaker 3: really bad errors. They just felt the squeeze. They got

890
00:45:34,213 --> 00:45:41,013
Speaker 3: suffocated and a third lost final in a row. I

891
00:45:41,093 --> 00:45:43,933
Speaker 3: don't know whether it's just the weight, the mental burden.

892
00:45:45,053 --> 00:45:47,733
Speaker 3: It's one thing to acknowledge that, it's another to overcome it.

893
00:45:47,813 --> 00:45:51,093
Speaker 3: And it just felt the longer that match went on,

894
00:45:52,373 --> 00:45:55,613
Speaker 3: the heart of the Chiefs tried, and it just never

895
00:45:55,693 --> 00:45:56,573
Speaker 3: felt like they were going to win.

896
00:45:56,613 --> 00:46:00,013
Speaker 2: They know it didn't. And the Crusaders led by one

897
00:46:00,093 --> 00:46:02,533
Speaker 2: point for most of that second spell and then got

898
00:46:02,573 --> 00:46:04,973
Speaker 2: to that four point advantage around the seventy first minute mark,

899
00:46:06,333 --> 00:46:09,653
Speaker 2: but their advantage felt way more than that, and it

900
00:46:09,733 --> 00:46:13,453
Speaker 2: felt o the Chiefs were desperately chasing the game, that

901
00:46:13,573 --> 00:46:16,413
Speaker 2: they were really only one point behind or four points behind,

902
00:46:16,493 --> 00:46:19,573
Speaker 2: and not so they were playing catch up rugby necessarily,

903
00:46:19,613 --> 00:46:22,013
Speaker 2: but it felt like they were trying to, you know,

904
00:46:22,613 --> 00:46:25,493
Speaker 2: stay above water in the game and put under pressure

905
00:46:25,533 --> 00:46:29,453
Speaker 2: by the Crusader. Nothing they could do was working. They

906
00:46:29,813 --> 00:46:31,933
Speaker 2: get the ball, the carry for a few phases, they

907
00:46:32,013 --> 00:46:34,253
Speaker 2: lose it forward, they conceive penalties, the scrum was not

908
00:46:34,413 --> 00:46:37,533
Speaker 2: working in the slightest flitting yours having a field day.

909
00:46:40,133 --> 00:46:42,933
Speaker 2: They just don't seem to know how to play finals footing.

910
00:46:43,493 --> 00:46:46,253
Speaker 3: I'm going to steal a boxing analogy here, So let's

911
00:46:46,253 --> 00:46:49,693
Speaker 3: say the heavyweight titles on the line when you go

912
00:46:49,893 --> 00:46:53,253
Speaker 3: to someone's backyard when you fight a champion, and the

913
00:46:53,293 --> 00:46:57,133
Speaker 3: Crusaders weren't champions, but given their history, given their finals pedigree,

914
00:46:57,733 --> 00:47:00,573
Speaker 3: their record at home, you have to take the title

915
00:47:00,893 --> 00:47:05,013
Speaker 3: from them, right The second half, the Chiefs they just

916
00:47:05,133 --> 00:47:08,253
Speaker 3: they didn't and they also just didn't adapt their tactic.

917
00:47:08,573 --> 00:47:11,413
Speaker 3: Even when they brought on Josh Jacob and Xavier Rowe

918
00:47:11,493 --> 00:47:15,173
Speaker 3: who are more attacking minded playmakers, and McKenzie went to fullback,

919
00:47:15,413 --> 00:47:18,053
Speaker 3: They're still kicking the ball away and it's not working.

920
00:47:18,293 --> 00:47:22,773
Speaker 3: Change it, do something, have a crack. It just felt

921
00:47:22,973 --> 00:47:26,613
Speaker 3: like the Chiefs throughout that finals went away from what

922
00:47:26,773 --> 00:47:29,053
Speaker 3: worked for them during the year, that they became really

923
00:47:29,093 --> 00:47:33,293
Speaker 3: conservative and tights and they didn't have the ability to

924
00:47:33,333 --> 00:47:34,173
Speaker 3: adjust on the field.

925
00:47:34,453 --> 00:47:37,213
Speaker 2: No, they didn't. And that was the bizarre thing I

926
00:47:37,253 --> 00:47:39,093
Speaker 2: thought from the Chiefs is that in the first half

927
00:47:39,213 --> 00:47:41,773
Speaker 2: they had a bit of pay from going direct. They

928
00:47:41,813 --> 00:47:43,973
Speaker 2: scored the first tries, scored two tries to one. Yep,

929
00:47:44,053 --> 00:47:47,453
Speaker 2: and Stevenson's won just before half timele though you know

930
00:47:48,373 --> 00:47:54,413
Speaker 2: went upstairs. That's right, But I think you look at

931
00:47:54,453 --> 00:47:56,853
Speaker 2: it and go they went into these shells at halftime

932
00:47:56,893 --> 00:48:00,453
Speaker 2: a little bit and with you know, it looks like

933
00:48:00,533 --> 00:48:03,533
Speaker 2: it was that perhaps a prehaps the Crusaders found thought

934
00:48:03,573 --> 00:48:05,453
Speaker 2: there was going to be some opportunities putting the under

935
00:48:05,493 --> 00:48:07,733
Speaker 2: aerial contests and just playing that right areas of the ground.

936
00:48:07,773 --> 00:48:10,413
Speaker 2: They wouldn't be to respond to that. And that's what

937
00:48:10,493 --> 00:48:12,813
Speaker 2: the coaches said at halftime. They are exactly right, because

938
00:48:12,973 --> 00:48:16,213
Speaker 2: the Chiefs didn't know how to fight the way out

939
00:48:16,253 --> 00:48:18,413
Speaker 2: of that. They, as I said before, they felt like

940
00:48:18,413 --> 00:48:20,453
Speaker 2: they were drowning and just trying to stay above the surface.

941
00:48:21,133 --> 00:48:24,733
Speaker 2: I saw a colleague doll in Cleveland. Is newslet to

942
00:48:24,773 --> 00:48:28,133
Speaker 2: calm similar analogy to you. You know that Clad went

943
00:48:28,213 --> 00:48:29,813
Speaker 2: on to talk about staying in the fight. You actually

944
00:48:29,813 --> 00:48:31,013
Speaker 2: got to take the fight. It's not about staying in

945
00:48:31,013 --> 00:48:31,973
Speaker 2: the fight. You've got to be in the fight. You

946
00:48:32,053 --> 00:48:34,973
Speaker 2: gonna be the fight. You're gonna be attacking the opposition.

947
00:48:35,133 --> 00:48:38,333
Speaker 2: And at no point in that game, especially after halftime,

948
00:48:38,373 --> 00:48:39,453
Speaker 2: did it feel like they were doing that.

949
00:48:39,933 --> 00:48:44,413
Speaker 3: We have to do something to challenge the way that

950
00:48:44,533 --> 00:48:47,933
Speaker 3: Crusaders want to play. They want to squeeze you at

951
00:48:47,973 --> 00:48:50,413
Speaker 3: the set piece, they want to pin you down in

952
00:48:50,533 --> 00:48:56,653
Speaker 3: your danger zone, they want to extract penalties and suffocate you.

953
00:48:56,893 --> 00:49:00,053
Speaker 3: And at no points did it feel like the Chiefs

954
00:49:00,133 --> 00:49:04,893
Speaker 3: were controlling the flow, the momentum, the narrative of that game.

955
00:49:05,133 --> 00:49:07,493
Speaker 3: And they really needed just someone to grab it by

956
00:49:07,493 --> 00:49:11,653
Speaker 3: the scruff, whether it was fifty twenty two sorry or

957
00:49:13,093 --> 00:49:17,133
Speaker 3: some sort of breakout or just try something new. And

958
00:49:17,933 --> 00:49:19,973
Speaker 3: I don't know whether it was that the pressure of

959
00:49:20,773 --> 00:49:22,133
Speaker 3: wanting to break through so badly.

960
00:49:22,173 --> 00:49:23,853
Speaker 2: Well, I think the Crusader's got all the pictures that

961
00:49:23,893 --> 00:49:26,373
Speaker 2: they wanted in a dream scenario. This is what the

962
00:49:26,453 --> 00:49:28,653
Speaker 2: Chiefs presented to them. The Crusaders knew exactly how to

963
00:49:28,693 --> 00:49:32,173
Speaker 2: combat it, one of those scrump nalities, gone on a roll,

964
00:49:32,213 --> 00:49:34,173
Speaker 2: put themselves into the right areas of the ground. I

965
00:49:34,253 --> 00:49:37,893
Speaker 2: mean the Crusaders credit to the Chiefs defense. They couldn't

966
00:49:37,893 --> 00:49:42,013
Speaker 2: get past them, but they were just basically had set

967
00:49:42,093 --> 00:49:43,933
Speaker 2: up camp inside the twenty two for most of the

968
00:49:43,973 --> 00:49:44,533
Speaker 2: second spell.

969
00:49:44,773 --> 00:49:48,493
Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, to be fair, it's freezing. There's a

970
00:49:48,533 --> 00:49:51,293
Speaker 3: lot of moisture on the ball, which makes handling difficult.

971
00:49:52,333 --> 00:49:54,493
Speaker 3: So it's not set up. You're not playing it at

972
00:49:54,573 --> 00:49:58,773
Speaker 3: indoor stadium, it's not set up for expensive you know

973
00:49:59,053 --> 00:50:03,373
Speaker 3: chance you're attacking rugby. But if it's not working, try something.

974
00:50:03,733 --> 00:50:05,693
Speaker 3: I just didn't feel like the Chiefs were brave enough

975
00:50:06,173 --> 00:50:09,013
Speaker 3: to have a real crack. So that will hurt.

976
00:50:09,373 --> 00:50:10,213
Speaker 2: It will hurt big time.

977
00:50:10,293 --> 00:50:13,933
Speaker 3: Because Clayton McMillan now departs, we expect Johnny Gibbs to

978
00:50:14,013 --> 00:50:17,893
Speaker 3: come him, but that roster is largely going to remain

979
00:50:17,933 --> 00:50:22,573
Speaker 3: the same and that who doo that hurdle, The baggage

980
00:50:23,253 --> 00:50:25,333
Speaker 3: stays with those players. And I think you mentioned the

981
00:50:25,373 --> 00:50:28,253
Speaker 3: week before that the Crusaders know how to win those

982
00:50:28,333 --> 00:50:31,413
Speaker 3: games and the Chiefs just don't. And until you break

983
00:50:31,493 --> 00:50:34,733
Speaker 3: through and do that, and the longer that goes on,

984
00:50:35,133 --> 00:50:36,173
Speaker 3: the harder it is to break.

985
00:50:36,213 --> 00:50:39,493
Speaker 2: It really is. And you know for Clayton McMillan, so close,

986
00:50:39,853 --> 00:50:44,493
Speaker 2: so far, now goes to Munster and you know they're

987
00:50:44,493 --> 00:50:47,133
Speaker 2: not winning a Super Rugby title. Thing can hang around

988
00:50:47,253 --> 00:50:49,453
Speaker 2: you think Ian Foster didn't win one with the Chiefs,

989
00:50:49,533 --> 00:50:52,693
Speaker 2: got to one final, got belted. Todd Blackadder got to

990
00:50:52,773 --> 00:50:56,053
Speaker 2: two finals, should have won one of those, probably against

991
00:50:56,053 --> 00:50:59,453
Speaker 2: the war Retars. Again, you know, if he wins one

992
00:50:59,493 --> 00:51:01,893
Speaker 2: of those, his career trajectory changes a little bit.

993
00:51:01,973 --> 00:51:02,573
Speaker 3: Leo McDonald.

994
00:51:02,653 --> 00:51:06,093
Speaker 2: Leo McDonald, you know, didn't get there with the Blues

995
00:51:06,133 --> 00:51:09,333
Speaker 2: and now you question whether we're he sort of goes

996
00:51:09,373 --> 00:51:12,333
Speaker 2: in the coaching ranks, whether it's overseas or whatever. So

997
00:51:13,333 --> 00:51:15,453
Speaker 2: winning one of them can change things for you if

998
00:51:15,493 --> 00:51:18,253
Speaker 2: you were a coach, and he hasn't been able to

999
00:51:18,333 --> 00:51:19,853
Speaker 2: do that. But it is opportunity for him to go

1000
00:51:19,893 --> 00:51:21,973
Speaker 2: to Munster and you know you're up against it there

1001
00:51:22,013 --> 00:51:25,493
Speaker 2: in Leinster, you know, taking it on over there and

1002
00:51:25,653 --> 00:51:28,533
Speaker 2: taking Monster, sorry, taking Leinster on and the rest of

1003
00:51:28,973 --> 00:51:29,853
Speaker 2: the u RC etc.

1004
00:51:30,413 --> 00:51:32,773
Speaker 3: In that comp Yeah, if you take a step back

1005
00:51:32,813 --> 00:51:35,293
Speaker 3: and look at McMillan's tenure as a whole, he came

1006
00:51:35,373 --> 00:51:38,893
Speaker 3: in as an interim coach, transformed that franchise from the

1007
00:51:38,973 --> 00:51:43,333
Speaker 3: depths of the Warren Gatlin era, leaves with the best

1008
00:51:45,453 --> 00:51:49,533
Speaker 3: winning percentage of any Chiefs coach, including Dave Rennie who

1009
00:51:49,573 --> 00:51:52,613
Speaker 3: won back to back titles in twenty twelve twenty thirteen.

1010
00:51:53,773 --> 00:51:56,533
Speaker 3: There's so many good things that McMillan did. The Chiefs

1011
00:51:57,013 --> 00:51:59,613
Speaker 3: have been the most consistent team the past three years,

1012
00:52:00,333 --> 00:52:01,413
Speaker 3: but there's no civilware.

1013
00:52:01,653 --> 00:52:01,693
Speaker 2: No.

1014
00:52:02,213 --> 00:52:05,933
Speaker 3: Then this is professional sport, and so you would have

1015
00:52:06,053 --> 00:52:09,613
Speaker 3: to say despite all those achievements, Stock does dip and

1016
00:52:11,213 --> 00:52:14,493
Speaker 3: unfortunately that's going to be a bit of a weight

1017
00:52:14,693 --> 00:52:16,693
Speaker 3: that he's going to carry rounds. Hopefully he can go

1018
00:52:16,773 --> 00:52:18,413
Speaker 3: to Monster and do good things, but as you say,

1019
00:52:18,453 --> 00:52:22,493
Speaker 3: it's a very challenging climate, a different style of rugby,

1020
00:52:22,653 --> 00:52:25,013
Speaker 3: and so he's going to have to adapt to that

1021
00:52:25,173 --> 00:52:26,733
Speaker 3: and it'll be interesting to see how it goes.

1022
00:52:26,813 --> 00:52:26,973
Speaker 1: Now.

1023
00:52:27,173 --> 00:52:31,853
Speaker 3: Conversely, the Crusaders Rob Pennie does come back and won

1024
00:52:31,933 --> 00:52:35,893
Speaker 3: a title, and so surely he stays on now.

1025
00:52:35,893 --> 00:52:38,213
Speaker 2: Well, I'm not convinced that he is hearing from a

1026
00:52:38,333 --> 00:52:41,093
Speaker 2: post game. He was very reluctant to make a decision

1027
00:52:41,173 --> 00:52:44,653
Speaker 2: and kind of intimated there was some temptation to go

1028
00:52:44,853 --> 00:52:47,253
Speaker 2: out on top won the title.

1029
00:52:47,453 --> 00:52:49,853
Speaker 3: I did see some coments from Man's Bridge that they

1030
00:52:49,893 --> 00:52:54,333
Speaker 3: weren't seeking another coach though, so maybe that means that

1031
00:52:54,333 --> 00:52:58,373
Speaker 3: it's internal. I certainly expect Penny to have I would.

1032
00:52:58,173 --> 00:53:00,133
Speaker 2: Say he probably will, but it was just interesting hearing

1033
00:53:00,173 --> 00:53:01,893
Speaker 2: his comments go that he wasn't competed and there was

1034
00:53:01,933 --> 00:53:05,773
Speaker 2: some temptation maybe to go out on top and leave

1035
00:53:05,813 --> 00:53:08,813
Speaker 2: it there. I mean, he went from zero to hero

1036
00:53:09,013 --> 00:53:11,253
Speaker 2: and the space of one season. I saw Jason Pye,

1037
00:53:11,773 --> 00:53:14,093
Speaker 2: our colleague, saying that he basically was getting a standing

1038
00:53:14,133 --> 00:53:17,333
Speaker 2: ovation after full time and you know who would have

1039
00:53:17,333 --> 00:53:21,133
Speaker 2: thought that twelve months ago and christ Church. So I'm

1040
00:53:21,173 --> 00:53:22,973
Speaker 2: sure for him there's probably a temptation maybe to go

1041
00:53:23,093 --> 00:53:26,013
Speaker 2: one more and Takahat or one yew Zealand Stadium, the

1042
00:53:26,093 --> 00:53:28,933
Speaker 2: new venue there, maybe lead the team and then hand

1043
00:53:28,973 --> 00:53:31,733
Speaker 2: the reins over the following year and twenty twenty seven

1044
00:53:32,013 --> 00:53:35,013
Speaker 2: to Brad Moore or whether it might be coming there,

1045
00:53:35,213 --> 00:53:37,133
Speaker 2: I suspect you'll probably go for at least one more.

1046
00:53:37,533 --> 00:53:39,333
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think so. And what do you think that

1047
00:53:39,493 --> 00:53:42,293
Speaker 3: means for the Crusaders? How do you think they are

1048
00:53:42,373 --> 00:53:45,373
Speaker 3: placed to kick on next year? Imagine the bulk of

1049
00:53:45,413 --> 00:53:47,693
Speaker 3: that squad's going to remain the same. They get Lester back,

1050
00:53:48,173 --> 00:53:52,693
Speaker 3: and when you've brought in that even more. This was

1051
00:53:52,973 --> 00:53:56,173
Speaker 3: an incredibly tight Super Ereguy season. We saw more upsets,

1052
00:53:56,253 --> 00:54:00,533
Speaker 3: more jeopardy than any time in recent memory. The Blues

1053
00:54:00,653 --> 00:54:02,333
Speaker 3: could or would have should have beaten the Crusaders in

1054
00:54:02,453 --> 00:54:06,533
Speaker 3: christ Church. Yep, there wasn't a lot between the teams,

1055
00:54:06,693 --> 00:54:10,013
Speaker 3: so the Crusaders broke through in that title. How do

1056
00:54:10,093 --> 00:54:12,413
Speaker 3: you think that leaves in place for next year?

1057
00:54:12,533 --> 00:54:16,573
Speaker 2: I think relatively well placed. They'll lose James O'Connor, who

1058
00:54:16,653 --> 00:54:18,933
Speaker 2: came in for a one season cameo. You know, after

1059
00:54:19,253 --> 00:54:21,533
Speaker 2: all that he's done throughout his career, he finally gets

1060
00:54:21,573 --> 00:54:24,693
Speaker 2: a Super Rugby title right at the end before he

1061
00:54:24,773 --> 00:54:27,173
Speaker 2: goes and joins Lisa, and I think he's been a

1062
00:54:27,333 --> 00:54:29,213
Speaker 2: very very good servant for the Crusaders for this year.

1063
00:54:29,373 --> 00:54:31,813
Speaker 2: They've got James White who's played a bit of NBC,

1064
00:54:31,893 --> 00:54:34,573
Speaker 2: who I expect will probably come in. So that makes

1065
00:54:34,653 --> 00:54:37,613
Speaker 2: now to Kimita potentially to come back from injury. There's

1066
00:54:37,613 --> 00:54:39,813
Speaker 2: a couple of questions. Know Ethan Blackaday, as we mentioned

1067
00:54:39,853 --> 00:54:41,893
Speaker 2: in the All Blacks half of the pod, not resigned

1068
00:54:41,933 --> 00:54:44,173
Speaker 2: beyond the season with New Zealand Rugby to my knowledge

1069
00:54:44,733 --> 00:54:46,973
Speaker 2: as yet, does listening out on the All Blacks, given

1070
00:54:47,093 --> 00:54:49,133
Speaker 2: some pauls for thought, does he go to Japan? You know,

1071
00:54:49,293 --> 00:54:51,853
Speaker 2: cash and there. You wouldn't blame him given his injury

1072
00:54:51,933 --> 00:54:53,973
Speaker 2: record for doing so. And maybe if he doesn't crack

1073
00:54:54,013 --> 00:54:56,373
Speaker 2: the All Blacks, perhaps it's time for him to go abroad.

1074
00:54:56,373 --> 00:54:58,573
Speaker 2: He'd be a loss for them. Tom Christie, you know,

1075
00:54:59,173 --> 00:55:00,853
Speaker 2: is aging up, but I s expect he'll be back

1076
00:55:01,453 --> 00:55:05,013
Speaker 2: next year. Oli Methis Olly mathis maybe well in the mix,

1077
00:55:05,693 --> 00:55:08,813
Speaker 2: you know, no better advertisement for come come down and

1078
00:55:08,893 --> 00:55:11,573
Speaker 2: join us and then winning the title on the weekend.

1079
00:55:11,693 --> 00:55:15,693
Speaker 2: Brandon en were I too getting Nick Bailey he's resigning

1080
00:55:15,773 --> 00:55:18,333
Speaker 2: for one more year. Dallas. They've got the bulk of

1081
00:55:18,373 --> 00:55:21,453
Speaker 2: that squad in Lockton for next year.

1082
00:55:21,613 --> 00:55:24,253
Speaker 3: And it must be said that it was an inspired

1083
00:55:24,373 --> 00:55:27,173
Speaker 3: choice to make David Havili the captain. The captain, I

1084
00:55:27,213 --> 00:55:29,093
Speaker 3: think he was a massive part of that team this year.

1085
00:55:29,333 --> 00:55:30,893
Speaker 2: He was and took a lot of pressure off those

1086
00:55:30,933 --> 00:55:35,253
Speaker 2: young playmakers Taha Kima, Rivers Raihana took a lot of

1087
00:55:35,333 --> 00:55:38,253
Speaker 2: pressure off them and did a lot of the playmaking work.

1088
00:55:38,413 --> 00:55:42,093
Speaker 3: Yeah, and apparently played that final with his kellies hanging

1089
00:55:42,173 --> 00:55:45,893
Speaker 3: on Y three as well, So pretty banged up, but

1090
00:55:45,933 --> 00:55:47,653
Speaker 3: he wouldn't be the only one. Scott barre at today.

1091
00:55:48,133 --> 00:55:50,413
Speaker 3: A couple of stitches on the eye that's been split

1092
00:55:50,453 --> 00:55:53,333
Speaker 3: a few times and grazes everywhere. So it was a

1093
00:55:53,493 --> 00:55:55,253
Speaker 3: very physical, combative match.

1094
00:55:55,453 --> 00:55:56,133
Speaker 2: Was it a good match?

1095
00:55:57,813 --> 00:56:02,093
Speaker 3: Look, if you're watching that as a neutral, No, there

1096
00:56:02,133 --> 00:56:06,293
Speaker 3: are extenuating circumstances in terms of the conditions and finals

1097
00:56:06,373 --> 00:56:10,213
Speaker 3: and the magnitude of that game. I think you know,

1098
00:56:10,293 --> 00:56:12,653
Speaker 3: if you look back and watch the World Cup final,

1099
00:56:13,573 --> 00:56:16,173
Speaker 3: was that a great adversement for the sport? Maybe not

1100
00:56:16,293 --> 00:56:18,973
Speaker 3: with the way it's been officiated as well, that that

1101
00:56:19,093 --> 00:56:23,933
Speaker 3: comes into it. So if you're trying to market the sport,

1102
00:56:24,053 --> 00:56:29,333
Speaker 3: that's the pinnacle of super rugby too, non rugby fans

1103
00:56:29,613 --> 00:56:33,613
Speaker 3: as a tough sell. Three points in the seventies something

1104
00:56:33,973 --> 00:56:37,973
Speaker 3: minute in the second half, you know, engrossing for somebody

1105
00:56:38,013 --> 00:56:41,133
Speaker 3: who's invested in it like we are, or you know,

1106
00:56:41,293 --> 00:56:43,333
Speaker 3: Crusaders Chiefs fans. Sure, it might have you on the

1107
00:56:43,453 --> 00:56:48,053
Speaker 3: edge of your seat, but otherwise I think as a spectacle,

1108
00:56:48,333 --> 00:56:48,773
Speaker 3: not great.

1109
00:56:50,333 --> 00:56:52,213
Speaker 2: I was workshopping this with you on the uber back.

1110
00:56:52,693 --> 00:56:54,613
Speaker 2: I think we need to increase the value of point

1111
00:56:54,653 --> 00:56:57,373
Speaker 2: that tries in rugby. Again, they did it in the

1112
00:56:57,413 --> 00:57:01,053
Speaker 2: early nineties, from four to five. I think to promote

1113
00:57:01,093 --> 00:57:04,533
Speaker 2: more attacking rugby, you go from five to six. Conversion

1114
00:57:04,613 --> 00:57:10,013
Speaker 2: remains two, penalties remain three. But if you're going to

1115
00:57:10,053 --> 00:57:13,773
Speaker 2: have double the points for a penalty by scoring a try,

1116
00:57:14,893 --> 00:57:18,413
Speaker 2: may promote more attacking rugby. And that at the end

1117
00:57:18,413 --> 00:57:20,253
Speaker 2: of that, I think is what we want. May not

1118
00:57:20,333 --> 00:57:22,533
Speaker 2: be what the entire world wants. You know, some of

1119
00:57:22,533 --> 00:57:26,013
Speaker 2: the Northern Hemisphere revolves around who can kick the best

1120
00:57:26,013 --> 00:57:30,173
Speaker 2: penalty goals. But I think to promote attacking rugby, maybe

1121
00:57:30,293 --> 00:57:33,653
Speaker 2: going to six points for a try could be something

1122
00:57:33,693 --> 00:57:34,253
Speaker 2: with looking.

1123
00:57:34,093 --> 00:57:36,453
Speaker 3: At yeah, I think it's worthy of a discussion that

1124
00:57:36,933 --> 00:57:40,813
Speaker 3: the other point here is a worked right. That style

1125
00:57:40,853 --> 00:57:45,213
Speaker 3: of rugby won the Crusaders the title, So why what

1126
00:57:45,373 --> 00:57:48,133
Speaker 3: was the encouragement to go away from that? So and

1127
00:57:48,893 --> 00:57:51,853
Speaker 3: they're not alone if you look, you know, across the

1128
00:57:51,933 --> 00:57:56,173
Speaker 3: world game it is quite a homogeneous. It's very structured,

1129
00:57:57,293 --> 00:58:01,053
Speaker 3: it's very planned, and you almost need an agitator, somebody

1130
00:58:01,253 --> 00:58:03,773
Speaker 3: out of the box to come in like Wayne Smith

1131
00:58:03,813 --> 00:58:07,093
Speaker 3: to a degree with the black Ferns and just promotes

1132
00:58:08,333 --> 00:58:14,133
Speaker 3: free flowing offloads to break up that style. Super rugby

1133
00:58:14,253 --> 00:58:17,053
Speaker 3: was brilliant this year, but when it did when winter hit,

1134
00:58:17,213 --> 00:58:23,613
Speaker 3: when finals hits, it did revert to very tight, very contested,

1135
00:58:23,813 --> 00:58:29,733
Speaker 3: very direct, very limited from a pure spectacle point of view.

1136
00:58:29,973 --> 00:58:32,733
Speaker 2: Is that the way that finals just go though, And

1137
00:58:33,613 --> 00:58:37,253
Speaker 2: you know Super rugby finals haven't always been about attack,

1138
00:58:37,533 --> 00:58:40,933
Speaker 2: you know, thinking the fold final, I mean it was

1139
00:58:40,973 --> 00:58:44,733
Speaker 2: a great night, but the highlight of this Hurricanes game

1140
00:58:44,813 --> 00:58:48,373
Speaker 2: in twenty fifteen was a tight game decided by a

1141
00:58:48,453 --> 00:58:52,693
Speaker 2: drop goal. You know, maybe there is just finals for

1142
00:58:53,213 --> 00:58:55,413
Speaker 2: and teams become a custom that you can play with

1143
00:58:55,733 --> 00:58:58,493
Speaker 2: gay bandon for fifteen straight weeks, but when the rubber

1144
00:58:58,533 --> 00:59:00,173
Speaker 2: hits the road, you've actually got to tighten up and

1145
00:59:00,373 --> 00:59:01,413
Speaker 2: play some rugby.

1146
00:59:01,693 --> 00:59:02,653
Speaker 3: Yeah, there is a lot of truth.

1147
00:59:02,693 --> 00:59:04,733
Speaker 2: Well not play some rugby, if you get my draft year.

1148
00:59:04,773 --> 00:59:08,293
Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, to be fair, there were surprising moments

1149
00:59:08,413 --> 00:59:10,613
Speaker 3: in that game where both the Crusaders and Chiefs turned

1150
00:59:10,653 --> 00:59:13,413
Speaker 3: down shots at goal and had a crack when perhaps

1151
00:59:13,573 --> 00:59:15,573
Speaker 3: taking the points in a big game would have been

1152
00:59:15,613 --> 00:59:18,173
Speaker 3: the better option. So it's not like they're not trying

1153
00:59:18,733 --> 00:59:21,573
Speaker 3: to attack. But even in those instances, you're promptly looking

1154
00:59:21,613 --> 00:59:25,013
Speaker 3: at like a mall tray, which isn't the most entertaining.

1155
00:59:25,213 --> 00:59:28,493
Speaker 3: So maybe rugby needs to do more to promote that

1156
00:59:28,613 --> 00:59:29,213
Speaker 3: style of rugby.

1157
00:59:29,253 --> 00:59:29,693
Speaker 2: But you're right.

1158
00:59:30,173 --> 00:59:34,053
Speaker 3: When the crunch comes and everything's on the line, naturally

1159
00:59:34,133 --> 00:59:35,373
Speaker 3: it becomes more tight intense.

1160
00:59:35,533 --> 00:59:37,493
Speaker 2: A couple of things to wrap up, tip and comp

1161
00:59:37,853 --> 00:59:42,133
Speaker 2: You picked the Chiefs, I picked the Crusaders. I think

1162
00:59:42,173 --> 00:59:43,533
Speaker 2: this is the first time I've won in the three

1163
00:59:43,613 --> 00:59:45,453
Speaker 2: years we've been doing this. I went fifty eight point

1164
00:59:45,493 --> 00:59:48,173
Speaker 2: five to fifty point five. Well, well, thank you very much.

1165
00:59:48,853 --> 00:59:53,893
Speaker 2: Three two ones, Nick Bierley, Yeah, well yeah you can.

1166
00:59:54,053 --> 00:59:56,813
Speaker 2: You can get in touch with them and sort that out.

1167
00:59:57,413 --> 01:00:01,413
Speaker 2: MVP medal, Ardie Savia twenty five, Boden Barrett fourteen, Hoskins

1168
01:00:01,453 --> 01:00:04,253
Speaker 2: are two to twelve. None of those players can get there.

1169
01:00:05,213 --> 01:00:07,053
Speaker 2: Three two ones for me, I'm going to Flitch and

1170
01:00:07,053 --> 01:00:10,813
Speaker 2: you all for three, Will Jordan for two and Rivers

1171
01:00:10,893 --> 01:00:13,813
Speaker 2: Rayhannah for one and Rivers Rayhannah got the MVP final

1172
01:00:14,373 --> 01:00:16,173
Speaker 2: of the game, but I'm giving all my threetwy Ons

1173
01:00:16,213 --> 01:00:17,493
Speaker 2: to the Crusaders.

1174
01:00:18,493 --> 01:00:21,413
Speaker 3: I agree with chel Was. I'm not sure whether Sky

1175
01:00:21,693 --> 01:00:24,493
Speaker 3: or who picked that Man of the match. Rivers played well,

1176
01:00:24,933 --> 01:00:28,573
Speaker 3: but for a prop to play eighty minutes to recover

1177
01:00:28,693 --> 01:00:33,093
Speaker 3: from two scrump penalties play that long with a knee

1178
01:00:33,133 --> 01:00:36,933
Speaker 3: injury our standing effort, so he's hand down, hands down

1179
01:00:36,973 --> 01:00:40,253
Speaker 3: should have been Man of the Match. I'm giving two

1180
01:00:40,333 --> 01:00:42,693
Speaker 3: to Quinn, t to Pie I thought he was very strong,

1181
01:00:42,813 --> 01:00:46,813
Speaker 3: faded in the second half but still put his case forwards.

1182
01:00:47,533 --> 01:00:50,413
Speaker 3: And I'm going to give one to Christian Leo Wady

1183
01:00:50,653 --> 01:00:53,013
Speaker 3: who has been superb all year.

1184
01:00:53,093 --> 01:00:54,653
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think we ended up with about forty five

1185
01:00:54,733 --> 01:00:57,653
Speaker 2: players all up getting MVP medal votes throughout the season.

1186
01:00:57,773 --> 01:00:59,733
Speaker 2: So there we go. Was spread around to for a bit,

1187
01:00:59,773 --> 01:01:03,133
Speaker 2: but Ardie Savia outs on top. Couple of things to

1188
01:01:03,253 --> 01:01:07,213
Speaker 2: wrap up before we do say goodbye, and Rapey Direct.

1189
01:01:07,693 --> 01:01:10,293
Speaker 2: Speaking of Ardie, your piece last week in the New

1190
01:01:10,373 --> 01:01:13,453
Speaker 2: Zealand Herald with some interesting stuff around his contracts and

1191
01:01:13,573 --> 01:01:16,573
Speaker 2: what he was offered by I will turn down, perhaps

1192
01:01:16,693 --> 01:01:19,053
Speaker 2: is the better word, by going to Werner PACIFICA and

1193
01:01:19,133 --> 01:01:21,893
Speaker 2: New Zealand Rugby not offering the full top up. Just

1194
01:01:21,973 --> 01:01:24,093
Speaker 2: explain and I guess you will take on what you've

1195
01:01:24,093 --> 01:01:24,813
Speaker 2: been able to report.

1196
01:01:25,293 --> 01:01:29,653
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think it's an interesting discussion point, isn't it.

1197
01:01:29,813 --> 01:01:33,013
Speaker 3: So Miana are not in New Zealand franchise and so

1198
01:01:33,173 --> 01:01:38,533
Speaker 3: this was a unique situation, unprecedented in that no All

1199
01:01:38,613 --> 01:01:42,253
Speaker 3: Black let alone one of the highest paid, most valued

1200
01:01:43,213 --> 01:01:46,133
Speaker 3: figures in the New Zealand game recent role Player of

1201
01:01:46,173 --> 01:01:49,053
Speaker 3: the Year going to a non New Zealand franchise and

1202
01:01:49,293 --> 01:01:53,373
Speaker 3: clearly that sparked a lot of concern from New Zealand Rugby.

1203
01:01:53,773 --> 01:02:00,773
Speaker 3: They were concerned about Miana's coaching, their high performance setup,

1204
01:02:00,893 --> 01:02:05,453
Speaker 3: their facilities. They felt that Ardie Severe's game would suffer

1205
01:02:05,853 --> 01:02:08,213
Speaker 3: and he wouldn't be fit for purpose for the All Blacks. Now,

1206
01:02:09,293 --> 01:02:11,573
Speaker 3: when you look at that with a reflective lens, about

1207
01:02:11,813 --> 01:02:15,493
Speaker 3: what transpired, Artie becoming the super Rugby MVP with two

1208
01:02:15,573 --> 01:02:16,973
Speaker 3: weeks remaining, the.

1209
01:02:17,093 --> 01:02:21,773
Speaker 2: Rapey Direct MVP meddles right, very prestigious, prestigious honor.

1210
01:02:23,093 --> 01:02:26,893
Speaker 3: His impacts in terms of inspiring and improving Mowana and

1211
01:02:27,413 --> 01:02:31,573
Speaker 3: how much that enhance the overall competition. It doesn't look great.

1212
01:02:31,853 --> 01:02:35,133
Speaker 3: And so the two contracts that Artie was presented with

1213
01:02:35,333 --> 01:02:38,653
Speaker 3: were you stay at the Kings and your all black

1214
01:02:38,693 --> 01:02:42,613
Speaker 3: top up is guaranteed you go to Mowana and twenty

1215
01:02:42,653 --> 01:02:46,573
Speaker 3: percent of that which I understand twenty percent of artie

1216
01:02:46,693 --> 01:02:49,493
Speaker 3: salary is close to two hundred thousand dollars is at

1217
01:02:49,573 --> 01:02:53,813
Speaker 3: risk because of those concerns that they had. So one

1218
01:02:53,853 --> 01:02:58,493
Speaker 3: of the riddle me this, So, having been through this process,

1219
01:02:58,533 --> 01:03:01,973
Speaker 3: what do you make of the process, and because Artie's

1220
01:03:02,013 --> 01:03:04,613
Speaker 3: been through it, if there are other all blacks, and

1221
01:03:04,653 --> 01:03:08,733
Speaker 3: there have been others such as Antonina Brown and to

1222
01:03:08,813 --> 01:03:11,973
Speaker 3: a lesser degree to Buvai who fluted with going to Moe,

1223
01:03:12,973 --> 01:03:16,133
Speaker 3: Richie mu Wanga will be a target when he returns home.

1224
01:03:17,853 --> 01:03:21,733
Speaker 3: With Artie pushing through that process, do you think it

1225
01:03:21,773 --> 01:03:23,893
Speaker 3: would be easier in future for an all black to

1226
01:03:23,933 --> 01:03:24,573
Speaker 3: go to Mowana.

1227
01:03:25,453 --> 01:03:29,613
Speaker 2: Well, I think hopefully Artie's paved the way for more

1228
01:03:29,653 --> 01:03:31,973
Speaker 2: all blacks to go to more Onana Pacifica.

1229
01:03:32,013 --> 01:03:34,693
Speaker 3: They are kept because they do have provisions there for

1230
01:03:34,973 --> 01:03:37,213
Speaker 3: a maximum of three current all blacks in their squad.

1231
01:03:37,453 --> 01:03:40,653
Speaker 2: That's right, they should be those three all blacks should

1232
01:03:40,653 --> 01:03:43,533
Speaker 2: be treated. I would have thought the same as any

1233
01:03:43,613 --> 01:03:46,013
Speaker 2: other all black that wants to go there. Mate, Look,

1234
01:03:46,533 --> 01:03:50,933
Speaker 2: there's probably some handicap that needs to be put there

1235
01:03:50,973 --> 01:03:53,453
Speaker 2: when you've got the five foundation franchises and w Wana

1236
01:03:53,493 --> 01:03:55,533
Speaker 2: does stand outside and if you want one to stand

1237
01:03:55,573 --> 01:03:56,973
Speaker 2: on it's own two feet, you've got to let him

1238
01:03:57,573 --> 01:04:01,653
Speaker 2: do that work at some point. But it was a drastic,

1239
01:04:02,013 --> 01:04:04,893
Speaker 2: you know, dressedic drop in terms of what he was

1240
01:04:05,013 --> 01:04:08,773
Speaker 2: going to be well did get paid in the Pacific,

1241
01:04:08,973 --> 01:04:15,013
Speaker 2: So I think the natural cap is those three numbers.

1242
01:04:15,133 --> 01:04:17,773
Speaker 2: You can not go franti every player, and surely for

1243
01:04:17,853 --> 01:04:19,813
Speaker 2: those three players you can come to some sort of

1244
01:04:19,853 --> 01:04:22,253
Speaker 2: agreement that this is what you are going to get paid,

1245
01:04:22,293 --> 01:04:23,413
Speaker 2: and it is going to be fair. It's going to

1246
01:04:23,453 --> 01:04:25,653
Speaker 2: be market rates what you would get at another New

1247
01:04:25,733 --> 01:04:28,653
Speaker 2: Zealand Super Rugby team. I get that those teams want

1248
01:04:28,693 --> 01:04:32,733
Speaker 2: to protect their patch and various things, sure, but you

1249
01:04:32,893 --> 01:04:37,053
Speaker 2: can't do that by degridating one a PACIFICA. On the

1250
01:04:37,093 --> 01:04:38,413
Speaker 2: other side, there needs to be a balanced and I

1251
01:04:38,493 --> 01:04:40,853
Speaker 2: get where both parties are coming from to an extent,

1252
01:04:42,453 --> 01:04:44,253
Speaker 2: but I just think this is probably the wrong way

1253
01:04:44,253 --> 01:04:44,733
Speaker 2: to go about it.

1254
01:04:45,493 --> 01:04:49,253
Speaker 3: Yeah, Moana's purpose is to serve some more and Tonga

1255
01:04:49,293 --> 01:04:52,213
Speaker 3: and to promote players to those national teams. But there

1256
01:04:52,293 --> 01:04:54,373
Speaker 3: is that provision for three all blacks, and if that

1257
01:04:54,453 --> 01:04:57,213
Speaker 3: provision is there, then they have to be allowed to

1258
01:04:57,733 --> 01:05:01,013
Speaker 3: recruit and explore that and it needs to be an

1259
01:05:01,053 --> 01:05:03,573
Speaker 3: even playing field. I can understand some of those concerns,

1260
01:05:04,133 --> 01:05:06,973
Speaker 3: but you would hope now with the season that they've had.

1261
01:05:07,293 --> 01:05:09,813
Speaker 3: I think there's still some fuinancial concerns in the background

1262
01:05:10,093 --> 01:05:14,173
Speaker 3: around Mouana, But on the field, surely they've proven themselves.

1263
01:05:13,813 --> 01:05:15,693
Speaker 2: Well I think so. But then again, this is why

1264
01:05:15,773 --> 01:05:19,093
Speaker 2: we don't see all blacks being selected or available to

1265
01:05:19,213 --> 01:05:22,813
Speaker 2: go to being sects from say the Warratars or the

1266
01:05:22,893 --> 01:05:26,013
Speaker 2: Western Force or whatever it is, because New Zealand Rugby

1267
01:05:26,293 --> 01:05:31,013
Speaker 2: can't control or doesn't have a full overview of the

1268
01:05:31,173 --> 01:05:35,253
Speaker 2: high performance systems, their facilities, everything like that. With five

1269
01:05:35,333 --> 01:05:37,733
Speaker 2: New Zealand franchises they do it. With Mwana they do not.

1270
01:05:38,093 --> 01:05:40,653
Speaker 2: With the four Australian teams they do not either. So

1271
01:05:41,373 --> 01:05:43,133
Speaker 2: this is why we don't see all blacks going there.

1272
01:05:43,133 --> 01:05:47,013
Speaker 2: Because New Zealand Rugby likes seeing and likes having the

1273
01:05:47,053 --> 01:05:49,333
Speaker 2: full knowledge that these players are going to work without

1274
01:05:49,333 --> 01:05:52,573
Speaker 2: a framework. They're going to be using our facilities. If

1275
01:05:52,573 --> 01:05:54,573
Speaker 2: we need to take the rest week, then we know

1276
01:05:54,773 --> 01:05:58,253
Speaker 2: that these franchises are part of us essentially, and we

1277
01:05:58,333 --> 01:06:01,373
Speaker 2: can go Adi Saviga needs a rest week this week,

1278
01:06:01,493 --> 01:06:03,533
Speaker 2: or you know, they can manipulate it that way. So

1279
01:06:04,853 --> 01:06:07,253
Speaker 2: it's sort of a half way house where it sits

1280
01:06:07,333 --> 01:06:08,733
Speaker 2: for wea pacific moment.

1281
01:06:09,373 --> 01:06:12,213
Speaker 3: Yeah, I see what you're saying. Artie played I think

1282
01:06:12,293 --> 01:06:14,733
Speaker 3: twelve or fourteen games from one of this year. Oh

1283
01:06:14,773 --> 01:06:16,933
Speaker 3: they've rested it. Yeah for sure, Yeah, played big minutes.

1284
01:06:16,973 --> 01:06:21,133
Speaker 3: But then so Diriquoiwanne for the Blues, So it wasn't

1285
01:06:21,253 --> 01:06:22,933
Speaker 3: like this year there was a hard and fast rule

1286
01:06:23,373 --> 01:06:25,573
Speaker 3: with that. And I think Scott Robertson went and visited

1287
01:06:25,653 --> 01:06:28,093
Speaker 3: Wuana just like he did the other New Zealand franchises.

1288
01:06:28,173 --> 01:06:30,933
Speaker 3: So I think a lot of those concerns about the

1289
01:06:31,013 --> 01:06:33,973
Speaker 3: high performance, the coaching, whether Artie would be flogged, whether

1290
01:06:34,013 --> 01:06:37,613
Speaker 3: he would go backwards for the All Blacks, hopefully they've

1291
01:06:37,653 --> 01:06:40,613
Speaker 3: been alleviated for others should they want to go there

1292
01:06:40,693 --> 01:06:41,133
Speaker 3: in future.

1293
01:06:41,253 --> 01:06:44,773
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Before we wrap up on rugby directs, form All

1294
01:06:44,813 --> 01:06:49,973
Speaker 2: Blacks coach Ian Foster releasing his long awaited biography last week,

1295
01:06:50,213 --> 01:06:57,213
Speaker 2: Autobiography and details obviously some of the turmoil that went on.

1296
01:06:57,333 --> 01:07:01,413
Speaker 2: It was tumultuous. It's a fun word between his tenure

1297
01:07:01,453 --> 01:07:04,693
Speaker 2: from twenty twenty to twenty twenty three. We won't get

1298
01:07:04,733 --> 01:07:07,453
Speaker 2: into all the details of the book which I have read,

1299
01:07:08,613 --> 01:07:11,533
Speaker 2: but one thing that stood out Liam was a passage

1300
01:07:11,573 --> 01:07:14,133
Speaker 2: around the twenty twenty three World Cup. Now, I think

1301
01:07:14,173 --> 01:07:15,893
Speaker 2: we talked about the podcast. At the time, you had

1302
01:07:15,933 --> 01:07:18,133
Speaker 2: a very good source that was giving you information around

1303
01:07:18,213 --> 01:07:21,893
Speaker 2: the team selection. In his book, Ian Foster details his

1304
01:07:22,013 --> 01:07:25,133
Speaker 2: frustrations with that details a phone call that he had

1305
01:07:25,213 --> 01:07:27,773
Speaker 2: to you, which ARACLESE sitting alongside you at I think

1306
01:07:27,813 --> 01:07:30,653
Speaker 2: christ As you report when that conversation was made. But regardless,

1307
01:07:31,173 --> 01:07:35,693
Speaker 2: I guess it's probably an opportunity to just explain how

1308
01:07:36,573 --> 01:07:39,333
Speaker 2: not your source or anything like that, but how it's

1309
01:07:39,413 --> 01:07:43,453
Speaker 2: your job to report information that comes your way. It's

1310
01:07:43,493 --> 01:07:45,533
Speaker 2: what you're paid to do. So maybe tap the floor.

1311
01:07:46,453 --> 01:07:46,653
Speaker 4: Yeah.

1312
01:07:47,053 --> 01:07:49,893
Speaker 3: I hope you enjoyed Fozzy's books, and I haven't read

1313
01:07:49,933 --> 01:07:52,173
Speaker 3: it in its entirety. I've seen a lot of excerpts

1314
01:07:52,253 --> 01:07:55,973
Speaker 3: and listen to various interviews, so I think what it is.

1315
01:07:56,373 --> 01:08:01,613
Speaker 3: It was Fozzy's chance to share his side of the story,

1316
01:08:01,733 --> 01:08:05,653
Speaker 3: right everything from his perspective, and from that sense, nothing's wrong.

1317
01:08:06,093 --> 01:08:09,733
Speaker 3: It's his view on the world. Was a very tumultuous

1318
01:08:09,773 --> 01:08:15,093
Speaker 3: time and challenging and precedented in many ways. So he

1319
01:08:15,453 --> 01:08:19,013
Speaker 3: said that chance, and that's great. I hope people enjoy

1320
01:08:19,093 --> 01:08:23,573
Speaker 3: the book. From my perspective, yeah, that the pressure point

1321
01:08:23,653 --> 01:08:31,253
Speaker 3: around the team was challenging because there was a lot

1322
01:08:31,333 --> 01:08:34,573
Speaker 3: of tension around it, a lot of frustrations from the

1323
01:08:34,653 --> 01:08:38,893
Speaker 3: All Blacks, a lot of misinformation about where that was

1324
01:08:38,933 --> 01:08:43,773
Speaker 3: coming from. And yeah, I think the takeaway point is

1325
01:08:43,853 --> 01:08:50,733
Speaker 3: that as journalists we are neutral. We as New Zealanders.

1326
01:08:50,773 --> 01:08:52,853
Speaker 3: Of course you want the All Blacks to do well,

1327
01:08:53,413 --> 01:09:00,773
Speaker 3: but we're not supporters. And the team news in that

1328
01:09:00,973 --> 01:09:07,653
Speaker 3: instance is intriguing information. It's valued from a news point

1329
01:09:07,653 --> 01:09:13,093
Speaker 3: of view. It's information the public want to know. And

1330
01:09:14,053 --> 01:09:15,653
Speaker 3: there's a couple of points I want to make. One

1331
01:09:15,813 --> 01:09:20,253
Speaker 3: is that the the Orbles traditionally release their team around

1332
01:09:20,333 --> 01:09:27,293
Speaker 3: midday Thursday. The Springboks successive World Cup champions typically released

1333
01:09:27,333 --> 01:09:30,813
Speaker 3: their team two days earlier on a Tuesday. So if

1334
01:09:30,853 --> 01:09:34,773
Speaker 3: it's that big issue, why has it not affected the

1335
01:09:34,813 --> 01:09:37,333
Speaker 3: Spring Box. If it's that much of a competitive advantage,

1336
01:09:37,893 --> 01:09:42,013
Speaker 3: why do the spring Box not delay their team? And

1337
01:09:42,813 --> 01:09:47,053
Speaker 3: the other point I would make is look, Fozzy to

1338
01:09:47,093 --> 01:09:49,333
Speaker 3: his credit, I don't have an issue with the way

1339
01:09:49,373 --> 01:09:54,453
Speaker 3: he conducted himself. We had a very fair conversation. He

1340
01:09:54,853 --> 01:09:57,653
Speaker 3: put his viewpoint across. I said, look, I'm just doing

1341
01:09:57,733 --> 01:10:00,173
Speaker 3: my job and I'm going to continue to do it.

1342
01:10:01,213 --> 01:10:03,453
Speaker 3: But there were other individuals around that team that did

1343
01:10:03,533 --> 01:10:07,093
Speaker 3: not conduct themselves in an appropriate way in any way,

1344
01:10:07,133 --> 01:10:10,813
Speaker 3: shape or form. So I'm very comfortable with the way

1345
01:10:10,853 --> 01:10:14,253
Speaker 3: that I carried out the duty to my job in

1346
01:10:14,333 --> 01:10:14,733
Speaker 3: that time.

1347
01:10:15,253 --> 01:10:17,293
Speaker 2: That's what you were editors, your bosses are asking your

1348
01:10:17,333 --> 01:10:19,853
Speaker 2: viewers to break rugby news. That's why you're employed by

1349
01:10:19,893 --> 01:10:21,813
Speaker 2: the New Zealand Herald, it's why you come on this podcast.

1350
01:10:22,933 --> 01:10:26,373
Speaker 2: And when rugby news is given to you, it's your

1351
01:10:26,453 --> 01:10:28,933
Speaker 2: duty to put it across to the public for consumption.

1352
01:10:29,493 --> 01:10:32,453
Speaker 3: That that's a journalist's role. And look, that's challenging at

1353
01:10:32,453 --> 01:10:37,853
Speaker 3: times because in any good journalist builds relationships and through

1354
01:10:37,933 --> 01:10:40,773
Speaker 3: that time Fozzy and I used to have a great relationship,

1355
01:10:40,853 --> 01:10:43,653
Speaker 3: but because of the way results went, that sould and

1356
01:10:43,733 --> 01:10:46,253
Speaker 3: that was the nature of the beast. I didn't feel

1357
01:10:46,293 --> 01:10:49,213
Speaker 3: like I was ever personal. He would probably have a

1358
01:10:49,253 --> 01:10:54,133
Speaker 3: different view. But it was a very wild ride, wasn't

1359
01:10:54,133 --> 01:10:57,253
Speaker 3: it in terms of results, change of coaches, raise, a

1360
01:10:57,333 --> 01:11:00,973
Speaker 3: potentially coming in not coming in, and then yeah, the

1361
01:11:01,053 --> 01:11:05,053
Speaker 3: team situation. So there are a lot of tensions around

1362
01:11:05,053 --> 01:11:05,333
Speaker 3: that time.

1363
01:11:05,413 --> 01:11:07,613
Speaker 2: They certainly were, and it's the point you make just

1364
01:11:07,693 --> 01:11:11,853
Speaker 2: to wrap up around the fact that we're not cheerleaders. Yes,

1365
01:11:11,893 --> 01:11:14,493
Speaker 2: from a New Zealand perspective, great to see our team

1366
01:11:14,533 --> 01:11:18,173
Speaker 2: winning on the national international stage. But as soon as

1367
01:11:19,013 --> 01:11:21,813
Speaker 2: you conduct an interview, you're working your job. You're behind

1368
01:11:21,853 --> 01:11:25,293
Speaker 2: a keyboard. I'm jumping on the commentary. I'm trying to

1369
01:11:25,293 --> 01:11:28,173
Speaker 2: be as neutral as possible. You don't know who's tuning in,

1370
01:11:28,333 --> 01:11:30,413
Speaker 2: you don't know who's reading it, and it's your duty,

1371
01:11:30,453 --> 01:11:32,293
Speaker 2: i think, to your listeners, who are readers, whoever it

1372
01:11:32,373 --> 01:11:35,253
Speaker 2: might be, to go down that middle line as much

1373
01:11:35,293 --> 01:11:38,053
Speaker 2: as possible. Yes, we're all asked to write opinion pieces

1374
01:11:38,093 --> 01:11:40,413
Speaker 2: on how things are tracking. But when you are behind

1375
01:11:40,453 --> 01:11:44,693
Speaker 2: a keyboard and reporting the facts, that's what That's where

1376
01:11:44,693 --> 01:11:47,653
Speaker 2: the line is, you know, and that's where you just

1377
01:11:47,733 --> 01:11:50,773
Speaker 2: deliver the facts, not you know, any sort of cheerleading

1378
01:11:50,893 --> 01:11:53,093
Speaker 2: or you know, national pride or anything like that that

1379
01:11:53,173 --> 01:11:54,933
Speaker 2: varies from country to country, don't get me wrong, but

1380
01:11:55,453 --> 01:11:57,653
Speaker 2: certainly how I see my job and how you see

1381
01:11:57,693 --> 01:11:58,333
Speaker 2: your job as well.

1382
01:11:58,493 --> 01:12:00,613
Speaker 3: Yeah, and look, that doesn't mean that you're a robot

1383
01:12:01,373 --> 01:12:04,613
Speaker 3: or you're unemotional. I've been in and you've been There's

1384
01:12:04,773 --> 01:12:07,653
Speaker 3: Alice Park where the All Blacks have great comebacks and

1385
01:12:07,893 --> 01:12:11,093
Speaker 3: you're one of few kiwis there and and man like,

1386
01:12:11,213 --> 01:12:15,373
Speaker 3: that's an incredible experience. And when you're at an event

1387
01:12:15,453 --> 01:12:21,453
Speaker 3: today and you're hearing do Carefi and Timothyvanawa and Fabian

1388
01:12:21,533 --> 01:12:23,413
Speaker 3: Holand talk about how they found out the news are

1389
01:12:23,453 --> 01:12:25,813
Speaker 3: becoming an All Black for the first time. When you

1390
01:12:25,893 --> 01:12:29,973
Speaker 3: see all Blacks being emotional singing the anthem, of course

1391
01:12:30,013 --> 01:12:32,213
Speaker 3: that stirs something in you and you're happy for them

1392
01:12:32,253 --> 01:12:35,293
Speaker 3: and you want them to do well. But you're not

1393
01:12:36,653 --> 01:12:41,853
Speaker 3: a member of that team, right, And our role is

1394
01:12:42,093 --> 01:12:47,133
Speaker 3: to report that we get paid by a media company.

1395
01:12:47,333 --> 01:12:50,213
Speaker 3: We're not in the All Blacks, So there is a

1396
01:12:50,373 --> 01:12:52,133
Speaker 3: differentiation that needs to be made there.

1397
01:12:52,293 --> 01:12:55,293
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, well said that'll do us for Rugby director.

1398
01:12:55,373 --> 01:12:57,613
Speaker 2: It has been a bumper old episode. Hope you've enjoyed it.

1399
01:12:57,693 --> 01:12:59,733
Speaker 2: We will be back next week I think from Test

1400
01:12:59,773 --> 01:13:02,653
Speaker 2: City we'll plan to do it Dunedin looking forward to it.

1401
01:13:03,493 --> 01:13:06,693
Speaker 2: Strapping on the on the ride with us throughout the

1402
01:13:06,693 --> 01:13:08,813
Speaker 2: All Black season very much looking forward to that. Get underwear.

1403
01:13:09,133 --> 01:13:14,053
Speaker 3: If any Southerners Dunedin iights have got any recommendations for

1404
01:13:14,413 --> 01:13:17,693
Speaker 3: a soup or something very still getting over hungry hoboes, hoboes.

1405
01:13:17,813 --> 01:13:20,373
Speaker 2: Yeah, the cheese rolls and a bit of soup didn't.

1406
01:13:20,893 --> 01:13:22,853
Speaker 2: It went down to treats and haven't been able to

1407
01:13:22,893 --> 01:13:25,653
Speaker 2: replace that. So hit us on the socials if you

1408
01:13:25,693 --> 01:13:27,613
Speaker 2: want to get in touch and tell us where we

1409
01:13:27,653 --> 01:13:32,333
Speaker 2: should be directing our lunchtime spins. Now we does. For

1410
01:13:32,373 --> 01:13:34,093
Speaker 2: a whole week I could to see our friends had

1411
01:13:34,133 --> 01:13:36,693
Speaker 2: happened health tackling all your aches and pains from a

1412
01:13:36,733 --> 01:13:39,093
Speaker 2: sport and worker thanks to Lasting Bars English. We will

1413
01:13:39,133 --> 01:13:40,093
Speaker 2: see you next week.

1414
01:13:44,013 --> 01:13:46,893
Speaker 1: For more from News Talks' b listen live on air

1415
01:13:47,133 --> 01:13:49,813
Speaker 1: or online and keep our shows with you wherever you

1416
01:13:49,933 --> 01:13:52,293
Speaker 1: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio