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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talk sed be

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Speaker 1: follow this and our wide range of podcast now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: Botox it has gone from a niche beauty treatment to

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Speaker 2: a blockbuster phenomenon. Its use is almost doubled from twenty

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Speaker 2: nineteen to twenty twenty five and is now accessible to

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Speaker 2: anyone with a few hundred dollars and a dream of

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Speaker 2: line free skin yees.

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Speaker 3: So it's mainstream and people are saying liking it to

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Speaker 3: just a manicure, manicure or a haircut. But why don't

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Speaker 3: get it? I've asked lots of people why they do it?

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Speaker 3: So paralyzes part of your face, but to what end?

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Speaker 3: Why is a paralyzed face better than a non paralyzed face.

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Speaker 2: It's a good question. And joining us right now to

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Speaker 2: hopefully answer that is doctor Sarah Hartch is a cosmetic

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Speaker 2: doctor with almost twenty years experience. Doctor hart very good afternoon,

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Speaker 2: she thanks for joining us.

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Speaker 4: Oh, thanks for having me on. That's a great question

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Speaker 4: that you're asking there.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's start right at the basics here. What is botox?

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Speaker 4: So Botox is a protein that is produced by a

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Speaker 4: bacteria that lives in our soil called Cloustrilian botulinum, and

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Speaker 4: a very clever man discovered how to purify that and

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Speaker 4: use it in tiny amounts to relax muscles many many

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Speaker 4: years ago.

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Speaker 3: So what I don't get about that is does it

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Speaker 3: get rid of wrinkles or does it just stop making

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Speaker 3: more wrinkles? Stop you making more wrinkles.

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Speaker 4: Well, it actually gets rid of wrinkles. And it was

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Speaker 4: first discovered that it could do this by was an

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Speaker 4: oomologist using it to treat spasms around the eye, and

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Speaker 4: her patients came back going, oh my god, this stuff

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Speaker 4: is great. This this made me look really happy. I

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Speaker 4: don't have brown lines anymore. Can I have a little

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Speaker 4: bit more of it on the other eye type thing?

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Speaker 3: Right?

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Speaker 4: And she thought her husband was a dermatologist and she

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Speaker 4: thought this is interesting, and so she ended up treating

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Speaker 4: patients around that area just for wrinkles and did a

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Speaker 4: great study that can had it with salty water and

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Speaker 4: showed that the botox made a big difference for the

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Speaker 4: brinkles compared to us just injecting salty water. And that

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Speaker 4: is when it was born to treat brinkles.

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Speaker 3: Wow. And so you say around the eyes, because I've

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Speaker 3: always thought forehead is where people go, but we're on

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Speaker 3: the face. You can have the forehead around the eyes

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Speaker 3: wherever these rings are.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, well yes, so it's it's interesting. So for

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Speaker 4: many many years, about twenty years, it's only been the

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Speaker 4: useful frown lines, fore headlines and crow feet, so as

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Speaker 4: you say, upper face, foreheading and crow feet. But you know,

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Speaker 4: just last week it actually got a proof for treating

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Speaker 4: the neck as well in New Zealand. So first new

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Speaker 4: use for cosmetic use approved in over twenty years.

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Speaker 3: Do you get do you get? Because you can get

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Speaker 3: turkey neck like George Lucas, but do you get wrinkle

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Speaker 3: neck as well?

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Speaker 1: Well?

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Speaker 4: In the net it's more it's approved for tretis treating

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Speaker 4: the prominence of those bands on the neck. I don't know,

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Speaker 4: did you ever watch Coronation Street with Deirdre She used

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Speaker 4: to have these vertical bands on her neck in the

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Speaker 4: botox before.

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Speaker 3: Can you do as much as you wander? Does it

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Speaker 3: get dangerous? Because you know it's paralyzing be of your

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Speaker 3: face and neck and eyes, and can you just blast

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Speaker 3: it everywhere and as often as you want?

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Speaker 4: Well, the amount that you're giving is ridiculously small. So

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Speaker 4: one vial of botox one hundred units of botox, which

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Speaker 4: is more than enough to do five people's frowns as

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Speaker 4: actually a quarter of a billionth of a gram of botox.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, so powerful.

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Speaker 4: The amounts that we're putting in is ridiculously small, And

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Speaker 4: the amounts that we put in for cosmetic is a

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Speaker 4: lot less than amounts that you put in for what

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Speaker 4: we call functional botox, for botox to stop dure grinding,

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Speaker 4: for bladders, for neck spasms, for cerebral palsy, all of

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Speaker 4: those much bigger body muscles have much larger doses of

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Speaker 4: botox than what we're putting to the small muscles of

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Speaker 4: the face. So relatively speaking, the dose that you use

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Speaker 4: for cosmetic botox is smaller than you use the botox

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Speaker 4: for all of the other uses it has.

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Speaker 3: In this article in the New Zealand Herald, it's saying

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Speaker 3: that it's become more and more mainstream and people are

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Speaker 3: liking it to just getting a manicure or a haircut.

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Speaker 3: Is that your experience? And secondly, are people proud of

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Speaker 3: getting botox now? Is it losing its I guess stigma?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Look, I think that there is a trend towards

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Speaker 4: trivialization of botox that I think is not a good one.

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Speaker 4: This is a prescription medicine. This is a powerful drug.

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Speaker 4: If it's used wrongly, it can cause side effects. I

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Speaker 4: think the thing that would concern me the most is

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Speaker 4: the providers that are basically dodgy and overseas in Australia

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Speaker 4: and in the UK, people have got botulism from providers

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Speaker 4: that are not registered, using unregistered formulations, not botox, but

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Speaker 4: some kind of counterfeit copy and inadvertently giving someone a

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Speaker 4: thousand times more than they should and those people ending

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Speaker 4: up with botulism. So, you know, you do want to

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Speaker 4: be careful about who you go to. You do want

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Speaker 4: to go to someone that has good training and that is,

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Speaker 4: you know, a healthcare professional. You don't want to be

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Speaker 4: going to botox parties. You know there's something that Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 4: And I do think this stigma has a decreased markedly

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Speaker 4: over the years. You know, when I first started doing

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Speaker 4: these treatments twenty plus years ago, people were super secretive

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Speaker 4: about it, and then gradually with each successive generation they've

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Speaker 4: become less secretive. And I liken it to how women

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Speaker 4: used to talk about having their hair colored, and they

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Speaker 4: used to be like for the boomers, they used to whisper,

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Speaker 4: oh my god, she's like not a natural blonde, and

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Speaker 4: they'd be mortified if someone knew they color their hair.

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Speaker 4: But me, as a gen X, I really don't care

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Speaker 4: if someone knows I color my hair, and just it's

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Speaker 4: become normalized and no longer something that is scandalous or stigmatized.

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Speaker 4: And so depending on what generation you're treating, my older generation,

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Speaker 4: definitely it's definitely something private, much less so with my

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Speaker 4: younger generation patients.

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Speaker 2: As a doctor, let's talk about the younger generation. Do

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Speaker 2: you see genuinely that to me, it just feels a

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Speaker 2: bit weird that people in their twenties will come in

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Speaker 2: to get this botox injection to get rid of lines

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Speaker 2: that arguably at that age they yet to encounter. Is

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Speaker 2: that what you're seeing that the younger generation are coming

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Speaker 2: in for these sort of treatments.

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Speaker 4: Well, not to me, I personally have my patient peakers

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Speaker 4: fifty four. Fifty to fifty four is the top of

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Speaker 4: my bell curve for patients, which matches my age. But look,

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Speaker 4: I do have had patients in the early twenties come in.

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Speaker 4: I had one lovely lady come in who said, I

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Speaker 4: want botops and I said, why you've got no lines,

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Speaker 4: and she said, well, all my friends are doing I

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Speaker 4: think that I should. And it was really important that

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Speaker 4: I educated her that there is no need to do

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Speaker 4: botox when you do not have a line. You know,

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Speaker 4: start early in your early twenties. In my opinion too early.

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Speaker 4: I do have the occasional patient in the mid twenties

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Speaker 4: who has a very strong familial line who already has

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Speaker 4: a line at rest. I think that's reasonable to treat,

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Speaker 4: but usually they don't need anything but the smallest dose.

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Speaker 4: But people thinking that it's essential to start early and

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Speaker 4: it's somehow magically going to stop their face aging that

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Speaker 4: needs to be put to rest because you know it

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Speaker 4: can treat a line when the line has come. You

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Speaker 4: don't need to start before the line comes. And I

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Speaker 4: just think it's a waste of money for the younger generation.

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Speaker 4: They really don't need to be doing large doses of

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Speaker 4: botox in their early twenties.

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Speaker 3: What about men and men getting botox. I'm looking at

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Speaker 3: Titus's face and it looks like a leather handbag that's

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Speaker 3: been left out in the rain. Could I get.

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Speaker 2: I've had a hard line?

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Speaker 3: I get about you for a thirty eight year old

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Speaker 3: tyler to get his face done, so I don't have

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Speaker 3: to look at this rentally mess over there.

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Speaker 4: Well, here's a much more appropriate age, So that would

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Speaker 4: be a tick in terms of men. So it's really interesting.

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Speaker 4: I asked some of my questions just quickly.

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Speaker 2: God help you us here. It's going to be a

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Speaker 2: tough ass, but carry on.

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Speaker 4: I've got a lot of botox, so I've got three

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Speaker 4: percent male patients. I've got colleagues to have five percent.

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Speaker 4: My male colleagues tend to have about twenty percent. But

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Speaker 4: a lot of them also also injectibles like PRP for

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Speaker 4: hair loss, so they're doing hair loss as well. So

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Speaker 4: it's still Botox is still absolutely a minority for males.

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Speaker 4: It's still way more popular for women. Males are generally

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Speaker 4: much more interested in hair loss and jawline, which botox

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Speaker 4: has much less of an activity in that area. For women,

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Speaker 4: we still want that smooth, feminine looking skin, you know,

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Speaker 4: smooth skin as seen as feminine. Men can have deep

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Speaker 4: crows feet, you know, remember Sean Connery. You know that

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Speaker 4: crinkle around the eye. So from a skin smoothness point

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Speaker 4: of view, it's generally perceived as less important for men

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Speaker 4: to have smooth skin, but I do. I definitely have

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Speaker 4: male patients who really appreciate not having Gordon Ramsey lines

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Speaker 4: in their forehead, you know, So there's definitely a place

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Speaker 4: for it.

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Speaker 3: No exactly what you mean by Gordon Ramsey life. We're

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Speaker 3: talking to doctor Sarah Hart. Now, what's the difference between

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Speaker 3: filler and botox? Because you know the lips, the Kim

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Speaker 3: Kardashian lips and that kind of thing. Is that different

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Speaker 3: from botox?

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Speaker 4: You know what? Completely different? The only similarity between them

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Speaker 4: is that you use them to approve appearance and that

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Speaker 4: you inject it. So philla is a gel that you

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Speaker 4: physically inject into the tissue to change the contour. So

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Speaker 4: it's a carbohydrate, whereas botox is a protein. And most

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Speaker 4: fillers are made from hyaluronic acid. And so the fillers

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Speaker 4: more about changing contour. I mean, you can use a

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Speaker 4: very dilute version of a filler to improve skin hydration

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Speaker 4: and fine lines, and then they're called a skin booster.

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Speaker 4: But fillers are generally too projected cheek make a look

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Speaker 4: bigger projected chin, So it's about contour rather than wrinkles.

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Speaker 3: Are they better and worse botox people because my mate

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Speaker 3: won't let his wife, well, he won't pick his wife

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Speaker 3: up from the botox anymore because he says she looks

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Speaker 3: like she's been stung by bees. So are they? Are

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Speaker 3: there people that are better and worse at doing it?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? Look, so I would say there's different styles of

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Speaker 4: doing it so that it's possible to do botops and

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Speaker 4: fill it in a style that's incredibly natural, and generally

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Speaker 4: you'd be using smaller doses and you're stopping before you

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Speaker 4: change the contour too much, so you can usefully to

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Speaker 4: support lost volume under the skin rather than create too

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Speaker 4: much change. But then there's also a trend more the

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Speaker 4: Instagram Can Kardashian trend of changing the face or glamorizing

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Speaker 4: the face, and some providers prefer that approach. So it's

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Speaker 4: really important to pick a provider that has a similar

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Speaker 4: aesthetic to you and that they're god ale of treatment

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Speaker 4: is in line with what you're wanting.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, because you can get stung by bees for free,

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Speaker 3: you don't need to pay for that one if that's

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Speaker 3: what you're into.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Sarah, thank you very much for your expertise. Really

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Speaker 2: appreciate it, and we'll catch up soon.

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Speaker 4: Yep, my pleasure.

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Speaker 2: I love you to chat all right. That is doctor

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Speaker 2: Sarah Hart, Cosmetic Doctor.

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Speaker 1: For more from News Talk st B, listen live on

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Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever

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Speaker 1: you go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio