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Speaker 1: Fifty five thousand teenagers have sat new n CEA tests

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Speaker 1: in May. Here are the pass rates. Reading fifty nine

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Speaker 1: percent past writing fifty six percent pass numerously forty six

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Speaker 1: percent pass. Not great, and you must pass these tests

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Speaker 1: in order to get end CEA qualifications. On this result,

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Speaker 1: tens of thousands wouldn't That's what it appears on the

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Speaker 1: face of it. Anyway, this year and next year there

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Speaker 1: is a workaround for the students, so it's not an

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Speaker 1: immediate problem for us. Chris Abercrombie's the PPGA president, Chris,

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Speaker 1: good morning, Good morning. Is this as bad as it sounds,

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Speaker 1: because is this students who are sitting the test from

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Speaker 1: fifth formal or year eleven up or is it even

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Speaker 1: year nine s who are sitting these tests?

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Speaker 2: So most of the students there are sitting in the

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Speaker 2: saction in year ten the OLGA full form, so that's

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Speaker 2: where most of the students have been sitting this some

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Speaker 2: of year eleven for form, the vast majority are in

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Speaker 2: year ten.

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Speaker 1: And do you need do you need to pass it

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Speaker 1: in year ten in order to get your ncas in

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Speaker 1: year eleven and onwards, or could you in theory actually

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Speaker 1: sit you're in ceas and then sit this these tests

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Speaker 1: in your final year and pass it all sort of retrospectively.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, So there's no sort of time limit on this.

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Speaker 2: You could do this in your last year at school,

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Speaker 2: you could do it in year twelve. There's no real

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Speaker 2: time limit on this. And as you mentioned, there's still

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Speaker 2: dual pathways open for young people to be able to

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Speaker 2: get there inca literacy and numeracy. But the options available.

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Speaker 1: Do we know what percentage of year eleven's are failing

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Speaker 1: these tests?

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Speaker 2: Not, off the top of my head, I don't know that, say,

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Speaker 2: the vast majority are in year ten. So some of

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Speaker 2: these students potentially would have been their third times didn't it.

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Speaker 2: They would have sat it twice in year ten, and

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Speaker 2: they could have said it in year eleven as well.

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Speaker 1: And nz QA is saying basically, if you if this

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Speaker 1: child is not ready, don't make them sit the test

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Speaker 1: because you're stressing them out and it's doing untold damage

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Speaker 1: to their psyche. Well, at least that that was what

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Speaker 1: one principle said, is that the right approach't shouldn't you

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Speaker 1: be sitting it and failing and learning and trying again,

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Speaker 1: getting up and trying again.

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Speaker 2: Well, there's definitely an element to it, but also you've

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Speaker 2: got to make sure students are ready for the assessment.

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Speaker 2: So school should be using other factors, such as the

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Speaker 2: ASTOR or PAT tests to make sure students are sitting

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Speaker 2: at that level. Really to say, for some of these students,

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Speaker 2: this could be the third time they've failed it, and

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Speaker 2: so it has really demoralizing. So you want to make

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Speaker 2: sure students can pass the assessment before they do the assessment.

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Speaker 1: One of the issues this is with numerocy is that

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Speaker 1: they needed students who were either borderline or failing, needed

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Speaker 1: to take a position on questions and then justify the

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Speaker 1: positions rather than just restating the claim that they'd made.

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Speaker 1: And I remember at school they'd say, show you're working,

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Speaker 1: Show you're working, you know, explain yourself. Why is that

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Speaker 1: more of a problem with students struggling with that more

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Speaker 1: now than ever before.

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Speaker 2: Well, it seems to be the case at the moment.

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Speaker 2: And this is part of the sort of wider picture

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Speaker 2: of educational reforms that it's a really long term process.

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Speaker 2: You know, if you think of a five year old

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Speaker 2: start in school, by the time we see them in

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Speaker 2: secondary it's ten years almost, And so you know, the

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Speaker 2: education reforms a real long term, ten year process, and

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Speaker 2: we've seen what sort of outcomes of short term thinking,

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Speaker 2: and that's one of the here is there sort of

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Speaker 2: changes in curriculum changes and teaching the practice, etc.

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Speaker 1: Are we not teaching kids how to think anymore for themselves?

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Speaker 2: Critically, Well, that was one of the real positives of

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Speaker 2: our sort of curriculum, was it was it was so

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Speaker 2: open ended. Thinking was a big part of it. Now

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Speaker 2: there's at least we need to go back to a

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Speaker 2: bit more scriptive curriculum to make sure certain things are done.

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Speaker 2: And so they say, we're in in a bit of

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Speaker 2: a fucks at the moment in education.

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Speaker 1: Chris, thank you so much for your time. Chris Ebercrombie,

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Speaker 1: the PPTA president with us this morning. So not quite

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Speaker 1: as bad as the headline might sound. You know, when

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Speaker 1: you look at numerously in particular, thirty thousand out of

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Speaker 1: fifty thousand kids failing. But you can sit the test anytime.

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Speaker 1: It's not like you get to fifth form you have

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Speaker 1: to pass it.

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Speaker 2: Then.

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Speaker 1: However, from twenty twenty six, your child will need to

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Speaker 1: pass these three tests in order to get their NCA qualifications.

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