1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,240 Speaker 1: Now, the government, as we've discussed, has today announced a 2 00:00:02,279 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: massive overhaul of the pay equity claim system. The current 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: regime allows workers from sectors with a large female workforce 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,039 Speaker 1: to argue that they are underpaid relative to similar work 5 00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,280 Speaker 1: done in male dominated sectors. Thirty three current claims are 6 00:00:15,280 --> 00:00:17,759 Speaker 1: going to stop immediately. Applicants will have to reapply under 7 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,720 Speaker 1: a new regime. Paul Goalter is the chief executive of 8 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: the New Zealand Nurses Organization. Hey, Paul, hi, I take it. 9 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:26,319 Speaker 1: You don't love this. 10 00:00:28,160 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 2: No, we're really disappointed with it. In fact, we've called 11 00:00:30,720 --> 00:00:35,440 Speaker 2: it shameful and our members are really upset about this. 12 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:37,159 Speaker 3: They've been ringing an all day about it. 13 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,440 Speaker 1: Okay, so you have got about right, am I right 14 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:41,199 Speaker 1: in thinking about ten claims underway? 15 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, we've got ten claims. Our position has been really 16 00:00:46,000 --> 00:00:49,480 Speaker 2: clear once we settled the defutto or or the hospital's 17 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:53,559 Speaker 2: pay equity claim a couple of years ago, that we 18 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,480 Speaker 2: wanted to put a claim across all the rest of 19 00:00:56,520 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 2: the nurses, right across primary health and age care and 20 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:02,760 Speaker 2: the like, and that's what we've been endeavoring to do. 21 00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,240 Speaker 2: So that's quite quite a very extensive claim. The idea 22 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,680 Speaker 2: for that is to try and eliminate the gender discrimination 23 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,960 Speaker 2: aspect and their wage rates in order to start to 24 00:01:14,400 --> 00:01:15,720 Speaker 2: move towards papality. 25 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,360 Speaker 1: Now under the new regime, will all ten of your 26 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:22,319 Speaker 1: claims be able to be resubmitted? Will they still qualify. 27 00:01:24,040 --> 00:01:28,440 Speaker 2: Well without seeing the detail of the legislation, But we will, 28 00:01:28,640 --> 00:01:31,440 Speaker 2: I think that's the important point. We will resubmit for 29 00:01:31,480 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 2: every one of those claims, and we are quite confident 30 00:01:35,959 --> 00:01:38,120 Speaker 2: from what we can read in the legislation that they 31 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,480 Speaker 2: would stand a really good chance of going through. But 32 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 2: the problem here is it's been incredibly bureaucratic trying to 33 00:01:44,640 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 2: get our claims this far, and now we've got to 34 00:01:47,240 --> 00:01:49,880 Speaker 2: start again. I know a number of employers are really 35 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 2: hurting about that, and we're going to start again under 36 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 2: another regime. 37 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 3: It just adds more years to it. Quite frankly, do. 38 00:01:57,280 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: You know off the top of your head, Paul, who 39 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: your workers were comparing themselves to, So, for example, your 40 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: plunket workers, what was the comparison with what male dominated industry? 41 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:11,400 Speaker 2: We hadn't got to that. We were just short of that. 42 00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:16,360 Speaker 2: We just had a couple more interviews on what the 43 00:02:16,440 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: jobs actually were that plunket nurses were doing and other 44 00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 2: occupations within Plunket, and then you moved to a conversation 45 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:27,480 Speaker 2: or a bargain if you liked with the employers about 46 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:31,079 Speaker 2: which comparators would be in place, and then if you 47 00:02:31,200 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 2: argue about that, you could go to arbitration. Hopefully we 48 00:02:34,000 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: would have worked through that pretty quickly. 49 00:02:35,639 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 1: What about age care? Do you know who they were 50 00:02:37,240 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: comparing themselves to? 51 00:02:38,880 --> 00:02:41,240 Speaker 3: No? No, again, so with all of them. 52 00:02:41,120 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 1: It hadn't got to that stage. 53 00:02:43,200 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, with nurses, I can speak for the nurse's part 54 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 2: of age here, we certainly hadn't hadn't got to that 55 00:02:49,480 --> 00:02:52,000 Speaker 2: as and we had been working closely with the Age 56 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,960 Speaker 2: Care Association to try and move this along as quickly 57 00:02:56,000 --> 00:02:59,000 Speaker 2: as possible, and we hadn't got to that stage either. 58 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,080 Speaker 2: The care and so port workers claim is a bit different, 59 00:03:02,160 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 2: and I'm not quite sure who their comparators were with 60 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 2: care and support, and that reaches across into some age 61 00:03:07,560 --> 00:03:09,360 Speaker 2: care facilities or age care facilities. 62 00:03:09,440 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 1: Okay, Now, is it fair to say, Paul that your 63 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:13,240 Speaker 1: primary complaint is just the fact that this is going 64 00:03:13,280 --> 00:03:16,040 Speaker 1: to take longer. Right, there's no indication that your cases 65 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,079 Speaker 1: are not going to succeed or anything like that. You 66 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: might still get there, it's just that it takes. 67 00:03:20,120 --> 00:03:26,240 Speaker 2: Longer, but it's now weighted more heavily against getting the 68 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 2: outcomes we think are appropriate. Well, there's a number of 69 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 2: early stages which they seem just reading the media releases 70 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:40,840 Speaker 2: to have introduced, are going to introduce to prove that 71 00:03:40,920 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: it's a female dominated occupation. You're going to move from 72 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:50,280 Speaker 2: sixty percent female to seventy percent that in some trades. 73 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 3: Or occupations would give a problem. 74 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 2: Then there's grounds for extended grounds for knocking out the claim. 75 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: It's going to be harder to do a multi employer 76 00:03:59,120 --> 00:04:04,240 Speaker 2: claim those sorts of things, and employers have got an 77 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 2: increased ability to basically make the whole thing a lot 78 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:13,119 Speaker 2: more difficult, which is quite ironic in health because we've 79 00:04:13,120 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 2: been working closely with the employers across all age care 80 00:04:16,040 --> 00:04:18,600 Speaker 2: and GPS and the like to try and move this 81 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 2: thing along. 82 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 3: So and actually we've been had a number of. 83 00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:25,160 Speaker 2: Calls from our employers that we've been working with saying 84 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 2: what the hell's going on and where do we go 85 00:04:26,839 --> 00:04:27,320 Speaker 2: next with us? 86 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,160 Speaker 3: You're not going to give up, are you. We've said no, 87 00:04:29,240 --> 00:04:30,200 Speaker 3: we're not giving up all. 88 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:31,640 Speaker 1: Right, Paul, thank you very much for your time. I 89 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: do appreciate It's Paul goal to the chief executive of 90 00:04:33,760 --> 00:04:35,680 Speaker 1: the NZO, the nurses Organization. 91 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 2: For more from Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, Listen live to 92 00:04:39,640 --> 00:04:42,679 Speaker 2: news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 93 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.