1 00:00:07,133 --> 00:00:10,453 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Saturday Morning with Jack Team podcast 2 00:00:10,573 --> 00:00:11,773 Speaker 1: from News Talks AB. 3 00:00:12,893 --> 00:00:15,733 Speaker 2: Before midday on News Talks, he'd be we're gonna share 4 00:00:15,773 --> 00:00:18,453 Speaker 2: with you a mutaticky playlist. Our music reviewer thoughts you'd 5 00:00:18,493 --> 00:00:20,613 Speaker 2: do things a little bit differently to celebrate the long weekend, 6 00:00:20,653 --> 00:00:23,213 Speaker 2: So looking forward to hearing some of her topics for that. 7 00:00:23,533 --> 00:00:25,373 Speaker 2: Right now, though, it's time to catch up with clinical 8 00:00:25,373 --> 00:00:29,373 Speaker 2: psychologist Dourgle Sutherland from Umbrella Well Being Canderdogle. 9 00:00:29,693 --> 00:00:30,933 Speaker 3: You're Zach. How are you. 10 00:00:31,653 --> 00:00:34,493 Speaker 2: I'm very well, thank you and really looking forward to 11 00:00:34,893 --> 00:00:37,253 Speaker 2: the study that you're going to share with us this morning. 12 00:00:37,293 --> 00:00:39,733 Speaker 2: You've got a bit of research that's a meta analysis, 13 00:00:39,773 --> 00:00:42,413 Speaker 2: so a study that has compared the results of more 14 00:00:42,413 --> 00:00:44,973 Speaker 2: than one hundred different studies around the world looking at 15 00:00:45,013 --> 00:00:48,253 Speaker 2: the effect of screen time on kids. So talk us 16 00:00:48,293 --> 00:00:48,613 Speaker 2: through it. 17 00:00:49,613 --> 00:00:53,493 Speaker 4: Yeah, absolutely so, And yeah, the meta analyses are always 18 00:00:53,533 --> 00:00:57,253 Speaker 4: sort of, I think, really useful because there's a summaries 19 00:00:57,293 --> 00:01:01,493 Speaker 4: of all the results and then often they're reanalyzing all 20 00:01:01,573 --> 00:01:04,853 Speaker 4: the statistics and all the data. So yeah, as you say, 21 00:01:04,933 --> 00:01:09,133 Speaker 4: this is a longitudinal study, so often with screen time, 22 00:01:09,253 --> 00:01:11,573 Speaker 4: you're sort of having a snapshot in time, which doesn't 23 00:01:11,613 --> 00:01:13,693 Speaker 4: really allow you to think about cause and effects. 24 00:01:13,733 --> 00:01:16,133 Speaker 3: So this is one hundred and seventeen studies I. 25 00:01:16,053 --> 00:01:21,093 Speaker 4: Think, which total of about three hundred thousand children and 26 00:01:21,253 --> 00:01:27,893 Speaker 4: looking at the effects on their behavior and socializing when 27 00:01:27,933 --> 00:01:31,253 Speaker 4: they're online, and important to say, it's not they didn't 28 00:01:31,293 --> 00:01:34,613 Speaker 4: look at social media. The kids here was zero to time, 29 00:01:35,893 --> 00:01:37,893 Speaker 4: so they weren't looking at social media, so it doesn't 30 00:01:37,893 --> 00:01:43,133 Speaker 4: really add to that debate. But they found basically that 31 00:01:43,413 --> 00:01:49,373 Speaker 4: there was this sort of this reciprocal relationship. So kids 32 00:01:49,413 --> 00:01:53,853 Speaker 4: who had more social difficulties and more difficulties controlling their 33 00:01:53,853 --> 00:02:01,933 Speaker 4: behavior spent more time online or sorry on screens, and 34 00:02:02,693 --> 00:02:06,213 Speaker 4: that in its in turn made those behavior and social 35 00:02:06,453 --> 00:02:10,933 Speaker 4: difficulties worse for them, and that was particularly so for 36 00:02:11,333 --> 00:02:15,973 Speaker 4: online gaming. So the more time, so kids who are 37 00:02:16,013 --> 00:02:18,453 Speaker 4: kids who are already struggling tended to spend more time 38 00:02:19,293 --> 00:02:22,373 Speaker 4: online gaming, and kids who are spending more time online 39 00:02:22,413 --> 00:02:25,453 Speaker 4: gaming tended to have that tended to contribute to make 40 00:02:25,573 --> 00:02:28,533 Speaker 4: their social and behavioral difficulties worse. 41 00:02:29,613 --> 00:02:33,573 Speaker 2: So, yeah, is that right? Is that a kind of causation? 42 00:02:34,093 --> 00:02:37,213 Speaker 2: Can you make that causational link there or is it 43 00:02:37,973 --> 00:02:40,653 Speaker 2: Some people say, yeah, it's kind of chicken in the egg. 44 00:02:41,573 --> 00:02:41,813 Speaker 4: Yeah. 45 00:02:41,893 --> 00:02:44,493 Speaker 3: Look, no, no, so the way they've done the. 46 00:02:44,533 --> 00:02:48,053 Speaker 4: Zarta analysis and it's very it's a long paper. 47 00:02:47,773 --> 00:02:51,973 Speaker 3: With massive amount of statistics which blowed my mind at times. 48 00:02:52,653 --> 00:02:56,653 Speaker 4: But yes, they're really they're thinking that because they're looking 49 00:02:56,693 --> 00:02:58,893 Speaker 4: at a whole bunch of the longitudinal studies who are 50 00:02:58,933 --> 00:03:01,853 Speaker 4: all finding the same relationship that they think there is 51 00:03:01,893 --> 00:03:05,973 Speaker 4: a sort of a causal relationship. But at it's both ways, right, 52 00:03:06,053 --> 00:03:09,013 Speaker 4: So it's seems to be that rather one theory is 53 00:03:09,133 --> 00:03:12,933 Speaker 4: rather than well, kids with social and emotional difficulties, rather 54 00:03:13,013 --> 00:03:16,693 Speaker 4: than using something like talking to their parents or working 55 00:03:16,693 --> 00:03:19,733 Speaker 4: out those problems, they tend to use gaming to work. 56 00:03:19,533 --> 00:03:21,693 Speaker 3: That out, or not even to work it out, but 57 00:03:21,733 --> 00:03:22,173 Speaker 3: they tend to. 58 00:03:23,813 --> 00:03:27,453 Speaker 4: Go online and game and that in turn makes their 59 00:03:27,493 --> 00:03:32,853 Speaker 4: social difficulties worse, possibly because they're not using other strategies 60 00:03:32,933 --> 00:03:35,533 Speaker 4: like talking to their parents, you know, or working out 61 00:03:35,573 --> 00:03:39,653 Speaker 4: the problem, so they're using it more and by using 62 00:03:39,693 --> 00:03:41,813 Speaker 4: it more, it makes the problems worse, if that makes sense. 63 00:03:42,093 --> 00:03:45,773 Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, are there any positives that come from increase 64 00:03:46,053 --> 00:03:48,013 Speaker 2: screen time or increase gaming time? 65 00:03:49,653 --> 00:03:53,133 Speaker 4: Look, some gaming can be useful in terms of, you know, 66 00:03:53,213 --> 00:03:54,933 Speaker 4: that sense of competence. 67 00:03:54,413 --> 00:04:00,133 Speaker 3: That you're good at something you know and winning and 68 00:04:00,213 --> 00:04:02,813 Speaker 3: learning you know and learning different skills. 69 00:04:02,853 --> 00:04:09,533 Speaker 4: So it's not necessarily all bad, but yeah, the result 70 00:04:09,573 --> 00:04:12,933 Speaker 4: was worse for boys too. Worse the boys, and worse 71 00:04:12,973 --> 00:04:14,933 Speaker 4: the kids who are in that sort of six to 72 00:04:14,973 --> 00:04:18,373 Speaker 4: ten year age group rather than preschoolers. 73 00:04:19,133 --> 00:04:22,093 Speaker 3: And maybe because it's maybe because boys are gaming more, 74 00:04:22,133 --> 00:04:23,213 Speaker 3: that might be that might be. 75 00:04:23,213 --> 00:04:26,893 Speaker 4: A thing also too for those for those older kids, 76 00:04:27,213 --> 00:04:30,213 Speaker 4: and we're just talking to six to ten, maybe because 77 00:04:30,213 --> 00:04:33,533 Speaker 4: once they're at school they have less and less relationship 78 00:04:34,013 --> 00:04:35,973 Speaker 4: with their or less time with their parents, and maybe 79 00:04:35,973 --> 00:04:41,053 Speaker 4: a preschooler does, and there spare time on online gaming. 80 00:04:41,933 --> 00:04:44,653 Speaker 4: Then that is, you know, they're even less time with 81 00:04:44,693 --> 00:04:47,293 Speaker 4: their parents, so you kind of lose the protective factor 82 00:04:47,333 --> 00:04:48,013 Speaker 4: of your parents. 83 00:04:49,293 --> 00:04:50,213 Speaker 3: So yeah, it's right. 84 00:04:50,333 --> 00:04:53,093 Speaker 2: So having the parents there is a real as a 85 00:04:53,133 --> 00:04:54,173 Speaker 2: positive essentially. 86 00:04:54,533 --> 00:04:54,773 Speaker 3: Yeah. 87 00:04:55,013 --> 00:04:57,533 Speaker 4: Yeah, and parents should take heart from the fact that 88 00:04:57,893 --> 00:05:01,893 Speaker 4: there seems to be only positive results or at least 89 00:05:01,933 --> 00:05:05,813 Speaker 4: no negative ones from parents jointly viewing things with their 90 00:05:05,893 --> 00:05:08,573 Speaker 4: kids on the screen. So that sort of co viewing 91 00:05:08,613 --> 00:05:11,573 Speaker 4: stuff is really as it seems to be quite helpful 92 00:05:11,613 --> 00:05:16,533 Speaker 4: and quite useful for kids. So something in that interaction 93 00:05:16,613 --> 00:05:19,573 Speaker 4: with parents is really helpful. Also, the other thing too 94 00:05:19,613 --> 00:05:23,173 Speaker 4: about the study was that they found no relationship with 95 00:05:23,373 --> 00:05:26,173 Speaker 4: violence of a violent video games. You know, people are 96 00:05:26,213 --> 00:05:29,213 Speaker 4: probably automatically thinking, oh, it's because the games of violence, 97 00:05:29,253 --> 00:05:30,893 Speaker 4: and you know, they're killing each other and that's why 98 00:05:30,933 --> 00:05:34,013 Speaker 4: they make bad social No, they didn't find anything about that, 99 00:05:34,093 --> 00:05:36,373 Speaker 4: So it didn't really matter the type of game, whether 100 00:05:36,413 --> 00:05:38,533 Speaker 4: it was a violent game or not a violent game, 101 00:05:39,133 --> 00:05:40,933 Speaker 4: still the same effect. So I wasn't to do with 102 00:05:40,973 --> 00:05:42,773 Speaker 4: this sort of a It seems to be more the 103 00:05:42,773 --> 00:05:45,973 Speaker 4: fact that you're using it instead of using other strategies 104 00:05:46,013 --> 00:05:47,213 Speaker 4: to work out your problems, if. 105 00:05:47,133 --> 00:05:47,893 Speaker 1: That makes yeah. 106 00:05:48,053 --> 00:05:52,773 Speaker 2: Right. See, we have tried to be relatively controlled and 107 00:05:52,813 --> 00:05:55,453 Speaker 2: how much screen time the eight year old gets and 108 00:05:56,533 --> 00:05:58,493 Speaker 2: he doesn't have an iPad or a phone or anything 109 00:05:58,573 --> 00:06:01,853 Speaker 2: like that. However, we do let him play one game 110 00:06:01,973 --> 00:06:04,253 Speaker 2: on the iPad and it's sort of not built up 111 00:06:04,253 --> 00:06:06,373 Speaker 2: as a massive special treat but it is a little 112 00:06:06,493 --> 00:06:09,693 Speaker 2: bit treaty. But it's a game that teaches him to read. 113 00:06:10,813 --> 00:06:15,613 Speaker 2: It's called Reading Eggs. Yeah yeah, and because he he 114 00:06:15,813 --> 00:06:18,093 Speaker 2: speaks Mardy and so he knows how to read Mardi, 115 00:06:18,173 --> 00:06:20,893 Speaker 2: but reading English is quite difficult. Because it turns out 116 00:06:20,933 --> 00:06:23,573 Speaker 2: we have things like silent k's that aren't easy when 117 00:06:23,573 --> 00:06:27,333 Speaker 2: you're learning to read, and it's really good for repetition 118 00:06:27,453 --> 00:06:29,373 Speaker 2: and that kind of thing. It's sort of gamifiers learning. 119 00:06:29,373 --> 00:06:31,293 Speaker 2: And I would have thought that something like that screen 120 00:06:31,333 --> 00:06:34,573 Speaker 2: time perspective is really is a benefit, you know. 121 00:06:35,173 --> 00:06:38,373 Speaker 4: Yeah, And also it sounds like you are aware of 122 00:06:38,453 --> 00:06:41,253 Speaker 4: the content of what he's watching, and I think that's 123 00:06:41,293 --> 00:06:44,013 Speaker 4: a yeah, crucial thing. And this outcome is that actually 124 00:06:44,573 --> 00:06:47,573 Speaker 4: really important for parents not only to monitor the amount 125 00:06:47,573 --> 00:06:49,933 Speaker 4: of screen time that their kids are having, but. 126 00:06:49,893 --> 00:06:53,853 Speaker 3: Also what are they doing on it. And you know, 127 00:06:54,453 --> 00:06:55,053 Speaker 3: you know, you're. 128 00:06:55,053 --> 00:06:58,093 Speaker 4: You're obviously familiar with what your eight year old is doing, 129 00:06:58,173 --> 00:07:00,733 Speaker 4: so you know, so you know the content. And I 130 00:07:00,773 --> 00:07:04,733 Speaker 4: think that's hugely important. And look, my heart goes out 131 00:07:04,773 --> 00:07:05,413 Speaker 4: to parents. 132 00:07:05,453 --> 00:07:09,053 Speaker 3: Now. You know, my oldest is twenty four, so you. 133 00:07:09,013 --> 00:07:12,373 Speaker 4: Know, when he was growing up, there wasn't quite the 134 00:07:12,373 --> 00:07:15,333 Speaker 4: same pressure around screens. But now that they're everywhere and 135 00:07:15,693 --> 00:07:20,413 Speaker 4: so easy and parents, it's a real struggle for parents 136 00:07:20,453 --> 00:07:22,613 Speaker 4: and and but you know, we have to get used 137 00:07:22,653 --> 00:07:24,733 Speaker 4: to it straight or we have to figure out how 138 00:07:24,733 --> 00:07:28,253 Speaker 4: to deal with it because they're not going anywhere the enegy. 139 00:07:28,253 --> 00:07:30,213 Speaker 4: It doesn't look like it's going to stop existing, so 140 00:07:30,253 --> 00:07:32,733 Speaker 4: we better figure out how to do it better. 141 00:07:33,493 --> 00:07:36,773 Speaker 2: And saying no, absolutely not living a sort of you know, 142 00:07:36,933 --> 00:07:39,053 Speaker 2: armiss existence probably isn't an option, so. 143 00:07:39,493 --> 00:07:41,293 Speaker 3: I know, I don't think so either. 144 00:07:41,373 --> 00:07:44,253 Speaker 4: I think we if we do that, we lose you know, 145 00:07:44,333 --> 00:07:47,693 Speaker 4: we lose the ability for kids to learn as they 146 00:07:47,733 --> 00:07:49,573 Speaker 4: grow up and figure out how to do it. I 147 00:07:49,653 --> 00:07:53,493 Speaker 4: think I think prohibition is probably I understand why you've 148 00:07:53,533 --> 00:07:55,373 Speaker 4: want to band stuff. It makes there's a sort of 149 00:07:55,413 --> 00:07:58,893 Speaker 4: a common sense element, But actually I think it's just 150 00:07:58,933 --> 00:08:02,813 Speaker 4: putting your head in the stand really and so it's 151 00:08:02,853 --> 00:08:05,173 Speaker 4: more I think important for parents to figure out how 152 00:08:05,213 --> 00:08:07,493 Speaker 4: they can do this with their kids rather than just 153 00:08:07,533 --> 00:08:09,413 Speaker 4: say no, you're not going to use it, because I 154 00:08:09,573 --> 00:08:11,253 Speaker 4: doubt I think that's kind of work in the long term. 155 00:08:12,173 --> 00:08:14,733 Speaker 2: Love your work, Dourgle, thank you so much, Really appreciate that. 156 00:08:14,853 --> 00:08:17,093 Speaker 2: And that is a fascinating outcome. I'm probably a relatively 157 00:08:17,133 --> 00:08:19,573 Speaker 2: predictable outcome if you'd ask me. But I think nonetheless, 158 00:08:19,613 --> 00:08:21,893 Speaker 2: to have a study, a meta study that goes into 159 00:08:21,933 --> 00:08:24,093 Speaker 2: all of these different analyses and gets a big picture 160 00:08:24,173 --> 00:08:27,293 Speaker 2: is so useful. Google Sutherland from Umbrella Well Being Jack, 161 00:08:27,333 --> 00:08:29,973 Speaker 2: the Big World Cup, the FIFA Club World Cup just 162 00:08:29,973 --> 00:08:32,253 Speaker 2: seems like a new scheme to bring in more cash 163 00:08:32,493 --> 00:08:35,733 Speaker 2: for FIFA. They sold the broadcasting rights for a ridiculous money. 164 00:08:35,733 --> 00:08:38,293 Speaker 2: It's just a shame that they're not playing the amateur 165 00:08:38,293 --> 00:08:41,573 Speaker 2: players from Auckland City UFC. Yeah, I mean, given the 166 00:08:41,613 --> 00:08:43,813 Speaker 2: salaries that some of the other club players will be 167 00:08:43,853 --> 00:08:46,053 Speaker 2: earning the likes of Harry Kane, et cetera. 168 00:08:46,973 --> 00:08:50,093 Speaker 1: For more from Saturday Morning with Jack Tame, listen live 169 00:08:50,173 --> 00:08:53,013 Speaker 1: to news talks i'd be from nine am Saturday, or 170 00:08:53,053 --> 00:08:54,973 Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.