1 00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:06,240 Speaker 1: Kyota. 2 00:00:06,360 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:16,079 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. New research 4 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:20,640 Speaker 2: shows a third of New Zealand adults are obese and 5 00:00:20,760 --> 00:00:27,480 Speaker 2: policies focused on individual responsibility of failing. A Helen Clark 6 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 2: Foundation report suggests tackling obesity will require cracking down on 7 00:00:32,680 --> 00:00:37,199 Speaker 2: junk food advertising, the proliferation of takeaways, and bringing in 8 00:00:37,400 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 2: new levies on unhealthy products. So is the era of 9 00:00:44,000 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 2: placing the blame on the individual going to be a 10 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 2: thing of the past? And can the government do anything 11 00:00:51,159 --> 00:00:56,600 Speaker 2: to curb obesity in this country today? On the front page, 12 00:00:56,640 --> 00:01:01,400 Speaker 2: Helen Clark Foundation Executive Director Murray Brouge is with us 13 00:01:01,560 --> 00:01:08,360 Speaker 2: to discuss. First off, Murray, can you give me a 14 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:12,240 Speaker 2: brief overview of what the Junk Food and Poor Policy 15 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:13,199 Speaker 2: Report is about? 16 00:01:13,400 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 3: Yes, certainly. Our report is about how poor policy around 17 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 3: unhealthy food is hurting New Zealanders and New Zealand as 18 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 3: a whole in terms of our health, our productivity, and 19 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 3: the two billion it costs our public health system to 20 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 3: treat diseases associated with obesity, like type two diabetes, like 21 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 3: high blood pressure, like heart disease, with around one in 22 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 3: three New Zealanders living with obesity. We've got the third 23 00:01:39,360 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 3: highest rates in the OECD, and that's estimated to cost 24 00:01:44,040 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 3: US nine billion loss productivity, things like reduced life expectancy, 25 00:01:49,280 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 3: lower workforce participation, in lower wages, that kind of thing. 26 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,280 Speaker 3: And it also costs US two billion in public health 27 00:01:55,320 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 3: spend treating the diseases associated with obesity. So we really 28 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,040 Speaker 3: do have a problem them with unhealthy food in this country. 29 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,320 Speaker 3: But I think more than that, the report is about 30 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 3: the proven policies that we could implement today if we 31 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 3: wanted to, that would make a major difference to these challenges. 32 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,919 Speaker 3: These are policies that have been shown in comparable countries 33 00:02:15,320 --> 00:02:19,480 Speaker 3: to reduce obesity, to improve productivity, and to reduce the 34 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:22,960 Speaker 3: strain on the public health budget. So I think despite 35 00:02:22,960 --> 00:02:25,839 Speaker 3: the fact that we've allowed unhealthy food to do quite 36 00:02:25,840 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 3: a lot of damage in New Zealand, we actually have 37 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 3: a great opportunity to improve things and we could get 38 00:02:30,360 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 3: started today. 39 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:35,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, why are successive governments so hell banned on the 40 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:38,520 Speaker 2: idea that obesity is a matter of individual responsibility. 41 00:02:38,760 --> 00:02:40,160 Speaker 4: It's a hard question to answer. 42 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:44,560 Speaker 3: What our report focuses on is the opportunity in front 43 00:02:44,560 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 3: of us, if we chose to implement policies that have 44 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 3: been shown to work elsewhere. You know, not every country 45 00:02:52,680 --> 00:02:56,600 Speaker 3: sticks steadfastly to this idea that it's only about individual responsibility. 46 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 3: There are a range of policies that have been implemented 47 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,760 Speaker 3: elsewhere with in some cases really really great rates of success. 48 00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:07,360 Speaker 3: You know, that show that you can reduce consumption and 49 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,240 Speaker 3: that'll flow through to improvements in overall health and as 50 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 3: I say, reduce pressure on the public health spend and potentially, 51 00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:21,480 Speaker 3: you know, overall improvements in economic productivity. So there really 52 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 3: is a pretty strong case for action here. 53 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:25,519 Speaker 2: What's happening in New Zealand at the moment? Can you 54 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 2: tell me why one out of three adults are obese? 55 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 2: I mean, it's not always about trusting people to make 56 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:33,680 Speaker 2: the right choices. 57 00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 4: Hey, well, that's right. 58 00:03:34,639 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 3: I mean what this report does as it looks at 59 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 3: what we call the food environment and you zeealand or 60 00:03:41,040 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 3: the commercial food environment, which reflects the fact that we 61 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,880 Speaker 3: have a lot of unhealthy foods, you know, on our streets, 62 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 3: on our supermarket shelves, we've got some pretty sophisticated marketing 63 00:03:51,040 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 3: of unhealthy food on our airways, and we don't have 64 00:03:54,280 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 3: much in the way of regulation around that regulation that 65 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 3: you stay to see being implemented in other countries. We've 66 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,520 Speaker 3: allowed an environment to develop where it's very hard for 67 00:04:04,560 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 3: people to make healthy choices about the food they ate. 68 00:04:09,880 --> 00:04:13,840 Speaker 1: The UK sugar attacks officially the soft drinks industry levy, 69 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 1: implemented in twenty eighteen, was proven transformative and combating excessive 70 00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,479 Speaker 1: sugar consumption. According to reports, children's sugar intake from soft 71 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:25,839 Speaker 1: drinks dropped by approximately fifty percent, while adults also reduce 72 00:04:25,880 --> 00:04:28,360 Speaker 1: their consumption by a third. 73 00:04:29,040 --> 00:04:32,039 Speaker 2: You mentioned New Zealand is the third highest rate of 74 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 2: obesity in the OECD, and you mentioned related illnesses cost 75 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 2: the health system two billion a year and that nine 76 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,120 Speaker 2: billion dollars in loss productivity. Do those figures surprise you 77 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:42,480 Speaker 2: at all? 78 00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 4: I think they do. 79 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 3: I mean that two billion and public health spend for 80 00:04:47,880 --> 00:04:51,680 Speaker 3: the diseases related to obesity. That's eight percent of our 81 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 3: whole health budget. As I understand that. You know, if 82 00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:00,240 Speaker 3: we could reduce that, that would free up lot of 83 00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,359 Speaker 3: budget for other priorities in the public health sector, like 84 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:07,679 Speaker 3: elective surgery. That is a lot of money and likewise 85 00:05:07,760 --> 00:05:12,159 Speaker 3: nine billion lost productivity that would be really really helpful 86 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:15,880 Speaker 3: for a New Zealand economy that's doing it tough right now. 87 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:19,080 Speaker 3: So you know, the opportunity here is pretty significant. 88 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 2: Does the cost of healthy options being astronomically more expensive 89 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,599 Speaker 2: than those naughty ones have anything to do with it? 90 00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 2: I mean, we do live in a country where a 91 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 2: bag of grapes is fifteen dollars. 92 00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:30,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, it does. 93 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,880 Speaker 3: And that's one of the compounding factors here. In addition 94 00:05:34,000 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 3: to not having some of the regulations in place that 95 00:05:37,000 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 3: we think should be and that are you know, in 96 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:41,039 Speaker 3: other countries that we like to compare ourselves to, We've also, 97 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 3: for a complicated range of reasons that the report doesn't 98 00:05:43,800 --> 00:05:46,760 Speaker 3: go into, we've also seen the price of healthy food 99 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,719 Speaker 3: grow much faster than the price of unhealthy food, and 100 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 3: that's just another thing that makes it hard for people 101 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:56,719 Speaker 3: to choose to make healthy food choices. It's the costs 102 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 3: of healthy food in this country are very very high. 103 00:05:58,960 --> 00:06:02,400 Speaker 2: What can the government or what can we do about that? 104 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 3: Though it's a government, you know, one of the main 105 00:06:05,600 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 3: duties of a government is to look out for and 106 00:06:08,080 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 3: improve the health of its population. So our report outlines 107 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:14,160 Speaker 3: a few things that the government should be doing. One 108 00:06:14,240 --> 00:06:17,840 Speaker 3: of which is a sugar levy, which you would you 109 00:06:17,839 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 3: would probably start that as other countries have on sugary drinks, 110 00:06:21,720 --> 00:06:25,159 Speaker 3: and what you're doing there is it's not about adding 111 00:06:25,200 --> 00:06:27,880 Speaker 3: another tax. And if you design this thing well and 112 00:06:27,920 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 3: again we've got other examples that we can draw on 113 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:33,640 Speaker 3: countries that look and operate a lot like ours, where 114 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:35,680 Speaker 3: they've been able to do this in a way that 115 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 3: means that what you're really trying to do is incentivize 116 00:06:38,920 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 3: and encourage the manufacturers to reformulate their products in a 117 00:06:43,279 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 3: way that to include less or will potentially no. 118 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,960 Speaker 4: Sugar in them. And then you know, it's not. 119 00:06:48,920 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 3: About getting consumers to pay more, and it's certainly not 120 00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,920 Speaker 3: about revenue raising. It's about changing the formulations of these 121 00:06:55,960 --> 00:07:00,240 Speaker 3: products to to essentially make them less unhealthy, to to 122 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 3: have less sugar in them, and that it's got all 123 00:07:02,080 --> 00:07:04,960 Speaker 3: kinds of benefits that flow through, obviously in terms of 124 00:07:05,080 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 3: obesiing and some of the didase that associated with it, 125 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:09,160 Speaker 3: but also in terms of things like dental carries, and 126 00:07:09,160 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 3: that's one of the things that you've seen in the 127 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:15,640 Speaker 3: UK is a big reduction since they've implemented this. I 128 00:07:15,680 --> 00:07:18,160 Speaker 3: think they call the sugary drinks industry levy, they've seen 129 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:23,920 Speaker 3: a big reduction and hospitalizations of children needing serious dental treatment. 130 00:07:24,480 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 4: So we know this stuff works well. 131 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 2: There are now more than a hundred countries around the 132 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 2: globe that have introduced some kind of variation on the 133 00:07:31,320 --> 00:07:34,880 Speaker 2: sugar tacks. So surely it's not seen as something as 134 00:07:35,120 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 2: radical as it may have in the beginning. 135 00:07:37,240 --> 00:07:39,560 Speaker 4: Hey, yeah, that's exactly right. 136 00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,960 Speaker 3: Perhaps twenty years ago, you know, you might have argued 137 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:46,600 Speaker 3: that individual choice was the way to go. But with 138 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,560 Speaker 3: the evidence now one about the damage unhealthy food and 139 00:07:50,880 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 3: food that's very very high in sugar or perhaps salt 140 00:07:53,040 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 3: and fat does to the population. And two with the 141 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:02,040 Speaker 3: effect of policies that we're starting to see increasingly in 142 00:08:02,080 --> 00:08:05,480 Speaker 3: other countries or certainly at this you know, subnational state 143 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,320 Speaker 3: level around the world. 144 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:08,680 Speaker 4: This stuff works. 145 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,560 Speaker 3: It should probably be a lot less confronting to politicians, 146 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 3: and perhaps it was twenty years ago. And then the 147 00:08:14,160 --> 00:08:16,240 Speaker 3: other really important point there is to know, you know, 148 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:18,240 Speaker 3: there there's been opinion polling on this showing that I 149 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 3: think twice as many New Zealanders support some form of 150 00:08:22,040 --> 00:08:25,480 Speaker 3: sugar levy as opposed it outright. And then the numbers 151 00:08:25,520 --> 00:08:28,280 Speaker 3: for New Zealanders who want to see some controls on 152 00:08:28,520 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 3: marketing of junk food, especially to children, are overwhelmingly positive. 153 00:08:32,800 --> 00:08:36,040 Speaker 3: So there's not a whole lot of reasons, political or 154 00:08:36,080 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 3: substantive why you wouldn't want to implement some of these policies. 155 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:56,120 Speaker 2: What are some of the Foundation's recommendations to the government. 156 00:08:56,360 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, so we think there should be a sugar levy 157 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,880 Speaker 3: on I think you probably start with soft drinks. We 158 00:09:01,920 --> 00:09:06,240 Speaker 3: think there should be controls on the marketing of unhealthy food, 159 00:09:06,400 --> 00:09:09,560 Speaker 3: especially to children. Again, in the UK, you've just seen 160 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:16,520 Speaker 3: the implementation of a watershed on advertising unhealthy food. I 161 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:18,480 Speaker 3: think it's between five thirty in the morning and nineteen 162 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 3: at night, so you're not exposing children to that. In 163 00:09:22,480 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 3: New Zealand, we've seen research that shows that children are 164 00:09:25,760 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 3: exposed to adverts for unhealthy food sixty eight times per day, 165 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,839 Speaker 3: So we should really look seriously at putting some rules 166 00:09:33,840 --> 00:09:37,959 Speaker 3: around that and reducing children's exposure to advertising for unhealthy food. 167 00:09:38,120 --> 00:09:41,079 Speaker 3: We also think the government could lead by example and 168 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:46,120 Speaker 3: implement stronger, clearer policies for providing healthy food across the 169 00:09:47,160 --> 00:09:50,280 Speaker 3: millions of meals that are provided on government properties. For 170 00:09:50,440 --> 00:09:56,200 Speaker 3: they schools, hospitals, army canteens, prisons every year. There are 171 00:09:56,200 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 3: bits and pieces of policies around that, but having direction 172 00:10:00,840 --> 00:10:03,720 Speaker 3: around the fact that all of those meals should be healthy, 173 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,720 Speaker 3: would would set a really good example, would have some 174 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:10,360 Speaker 3: pretty positive effects on health outcomes in New Zealand. 175 00:10:10,679 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 2: When was Jamie Oliver's special I remember seeing it on 176 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:17,199 Speaker 2: TV and he was redesigning tuck shops in the UK. 177 00:10:19,320 --> 00:10:23,200 Speaker 4: Jamie Oliver is questioning the government's commitment to improve school 178 00:10:23,240 --> 00:10:24,800 Speaker 4: food for all children. 179 00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:28,679 Speaker 2: It's been an incredible journey just to kind of take 180 00:10:28,679 --> 00:10:29,200 Speaker 2: your mind back. 181 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,400 Speaker 1: There used to be standards for dog food, but not 182 00:10:31,480 --> 00:10:33,000 Speaker 1: kids food in school. 183 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:35,199 Speaker 2: Now we want to give to the public delivery of 184 00:10:35,240 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 2: the standard that must have been over ten years ago. 185 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:44,360 Speaker 2: Now when that kind of revolutionary thinking came about, why 186 00:10:44,400 --> 00:10:45,520 Speaker 2: haven't we done it yet? 187 00:10:45,960 --> 00:10:49,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, Look, it's a great question. There have been some 188 00:10:49,760 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 3: attempts at at the Helen Clark government. Helen Clark led 189 00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 3: government of two thousand and eight did put some rules 190 00:10:55,080 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 3: in place requiring schools to serve only healthy food. They 191 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 3: were subsequently repealed. I think there is a fear in 192 00:11:01,400 --> 00:11:03,920 Speaker 3: this country or among the countries' political leaders, of being 193 00:11:03,920 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 3: seen to be you nanny states telling people how to 194 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 3: live their lives. But that's not really what this is about. 195 00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:12,360 Speaker 3: It's about making it easier for people to make healthy 196 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,920 Speaker 3: food choices. And as I say, it doesn't take much 197 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 3: looking around the rest of the world to see that. 198 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 3: You know, most of these other countries have moved on. 199 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:24,120 Speaker 3: They've realized how effect of some of these policies can be, 200 00:11:24,800 --> 00:11:28,160 Speaker 3: not only in improving the health outcomes across the population, 201 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 3: but reducing pressure on public health budgets and you know, 202 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:34,040 Speaker 3: potentially unlocking economic productivity as well. 203 00:11:34,200 --> 00:11:36,480 Speaker 2: You've mentioned laws in the UK. Are there any other 204 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:37,680 Speaker 2: countries that are doing it right? 205 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:43,440 Speaker 3: I understand there are some really effective policies and much 206 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:47,240 Speaker 3: of Latin America, And then there are various state level 207 00:11:47,240 --> 00:11:51,040 Speaker 3: policies around the place, including in the United States, where 208 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,920 Speaker 3: where these policies have been implemented and have been found 209 00:11:53,920 --> 00:11:54,600 Speaker 3: to be effective. 210 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:59,080 Speaker 2: Isn't it a known fact that there are more concentrations 211 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:03,120 Speaker 2: of say, fast food outlets and lower socioeconomic areas. I mean, 212 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 2: how do we stop that from happening? 213 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,439 Speaker 4: It is, that's absolutely right. 214 00:12:07,559 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 3: Some research done a few years ago by the Helen 215 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 3: Clark Foundation found that there could be up to three 216 00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 3: times the concentration of unhealthy food outlets and the lowest 217 00:12:16,760 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 3: decile communities compared to the highest desil communities. Look, one 218 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:22,719 Speaker 3: of the things that this report calls for is to 219 00:12:22,720 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 3: give councils more authority, more control to regulate the number 220 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,440 Speaker 3: or the concentration of fast food outlets and within the 221 00:12:31,440 --> 00:12:34,560 Speaker 3: communities that they look after. That could be one way 222 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 3: of doing it, much in the same way that they 223 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 3: have that power to some extent with bottle stores with 224 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:43,199 Speaker 3: the sale of alcohol. You could give councils that power, 225 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:45,959 Speaker 3: and that would be one way of helping reduce what 226 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:49,040 Speaker 3: is a very high prevalence of unhealthy food outlets. And 227 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:55,040 Speaker 3: many of our communities probably provides a bit of more 228 00:12:55,120 --> 00:12:56,880 Speaker 3: tax relief for inside of other spaces. 229 00:12:57,600 --> 00:13:00,160 Speaker 2: Nah, I think that would be too much evan to 230 00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:03,439 Speaker 2: enforce and start and I don't know, it assumes like 231 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:04,080 Speaker 2: waste of time. 232 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:06,000 Speaker 4: Sugar's not that bad, is it, I don't know. 233 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,719 Speaker 1: Good thing, good thing, yeah, for healthy It's proven in 234 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: other countries, right, it's more healthier for people, right, So yeah, 235 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: good thing. 236 00:13:16,920 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 4: Yeah. I think it would be pretty good to helping 237 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,760 Speaker 4: out the assuming the money went to like healthcare. Then 238 00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:22,560 Speaker 4: I'm on board. 239 00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:31,240 Speaker 2: I know when talking about this subject, some people say, Look, 240 00:13:31,360 --> 00:13:34,679 Speaker 2: why don't people just make healthier choices? I choose to 241 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 2: eat vegetables and fruit every day? Why can't everyone do that? 242 00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 2: And there's different variables to that, right, there's price and 243 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:46,160 Speaker 2: there's advertising. I mean, can you explain that a little. 244 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:47,040 Speaker 4: Bit to me? Yeah? 245 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,839 Speaker 3: Look, I mean I think you've touched on to the 246 00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 3: important things there. What it really comes down to, I 247 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:56,240 Speaker 3: think is we've made it quite hard to make healthy 248 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,120 Speaker 3: food choices in this country. We don't have the same 249 00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 3: rules that are a lot of other countries have adopted 250 00:14:01,880 --> 00:14:04,040 Speaker 3: that are designed to make it easier to eat healthy. 251 00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:07,560 Speaker 3: And then to your point, New Zealand's got expensive food 252 00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 3: relative to other countries as it is, but healthy food 253 00:14:10,520 --> 00:14:13,560 Speaker 3: is particularly expensive and has increased in price a lot 254 00:14:13,840 --> 00:14:15,599 Speaker 3: in recent years. As a graph and a report that 255 00:14:15,679 --> 00:14:19,920 Speaker 3: illustrates this quite clearly. So we've just made it too 256 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:22,760 Speaker 3: hard to eat healthily in this country, and then that 257 00:14:23,000 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 3: rebounds on everybody. We're less healthy as a country, we're 258 00:14:25,840 --> 00:14:27,920 Speaker 3: less productive, and we've got to spend that much more 259 00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:32,240 Speaker 3: of our limited health budget treating the diseases that come 260 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,320 Speaker 3: with with high obesity rates. 261 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's really no surprise that the vegetables and 262 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 2: fruits in this country are astronomically more expensive, There's no 263 00:14:40,560 --> 00:14:43,880 Speaker 2: doubt about it. I remember seeing a viral recipe for 264 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:47,360 Speaker 2: a cucumber salad. People were making this cucumber salad and 265 00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:49,840 Speaker 2: you need about five cucumbers, and I remember reading the 266 00:14:49,880 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 2: comments from those people in New Zealand saying cucumbers are 267 00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 2: like eight dollars each. Now, this is impossible. So it's 268 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:02,760 Speaker 2: really no surprise. Could the Grocery Commissioner get involved when 269 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:05,360 Speaker 2: it comes to pricing around around healthier foods? 270 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:08,080 Speaker 3: What the policy options are there people to you know, 271 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 3: you've seen proposals to take gst off fruit and veggies. 272 00:15:12,760 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 3: You know, there are other ways of the social supermarkets 273 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:20,920 Speaker 3: or other people have proposed subsidies for healthy food Those 274 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 3: are all potentially, at least some of those options could 275 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 3: potentially be effective. But our reports really focused on some 276 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:30,320 Speaker 3: of those other things that we've talked about, the levy 277 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:34,880 Speaker 3: on sugary beverages, on banning marketing to children, and on 278 00:15:35,480 --> 00:15:37,840 Speaker 3: thinking about how the government can lead by example, given 279 00:15:37,880 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 3: that it provides so many meals over the course of 280 00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 3: the year, on all all its properties. 281 00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:47,800 Speaker 2: So Associate Health Minister Matt Doocy, he's responsible for nutrition, 282 00:15:48,080 --> 00:15:50,640 Speaker 2: has he commented on any of the recommendations made in 283 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 2: this report. 284 00:15:51,520 --> 00:15:52,400 Speaker 4: Not that I have seen. 285 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 3: We have recently shared an advanced copy of the report 286 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:59,240 Speaker 3: with him, and I've offer briefed him and Health Minister 287 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,600 Speaker 3: Ritty as well. So I really look forward to engaging 288 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 3: with them on this if they're interested in effective policy 289 00:16:06,480 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 3: and policy that's informed by very clear evidence, and I 290 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 3: hope they'll be interested in the recommendations of this report. 291 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: Thanks for joining us, Murray, Thank you, Chelsea. That's it 292 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,160 Speaker 2: for this episode of The Front Page. You can read 293 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 2: more about today's stories and extensive news coverage at enzdherld 294 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,320 Speaker 2: dot co dot MZ. The Front Page is produced by 295 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:34,640 Speaker 2: Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also a sound engineer. 296 00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio 297 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,400 Speaker 2: or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow 298 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 2: for another look behind the headlines.