1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,120 Speaker 1: Back to the supermarkets and the Willis crusade to make 2 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:04,520 Speaker 1: you trolley cheaper. Yesterday we got the fast laying news. 3 00:00:04,559 --> 00:00:08,119 Speaker 1: Also a single consent Authority designated to handle development's nationwide. 4 00:00:08,160 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: Nicola Willis is the Minister for Economic Growth and is 5 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:11,479 Speaker 1: back for this. 6 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:13,680 Speaker 2: Good morning, Good morning Mike. 7 00:00:13,840 --> 00:00:16,920 Speaker 1: Now I'm disappointed at the moment because what we got yesterday, 8 00:00:16,960 --> 00:00:19,000 Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong, had already been talked about 9 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: and announced, hadn't it. 10 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,840 Speaker 2: No, it hadn't been. Because what we announced yesterday is 11 00:00:24,960 --> 00:00:27,840 Speaker 2: a change to the Fast Track Act, which bear in mind, 12 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 2: was only pass in December. Sure that there is an 13 00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:35,479 Speaker 2: express lane specifically for new supermarket competitors when out it 14 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,600 Speaker 2: for the first time, there will be a nationwide Building 15 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:42,559 Speaker 2: Content Authority that can speed up all building consents for 16 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:45,320 Speaker 2: new supermarket competitors. That we will have a multi proof 17 00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,800 Speaker 2: scheme where they can get multiple building consents issued at once. 18 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 2: That we will streamline the pathway to new competitors through 19 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:55,160 Speaker 2: the Overseas Investment Act. That we will amend the Commerce 20 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 2: Act to stop competitors using predatory pricing to stamp out 21 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 2: new entrance, and that we will be looking at innovative 22 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:06,600 Speaker 2: solutions to make sure we can import products from overseas 23 00:01:06,640 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 2: that have labels that don't currently meet our regulations. Those 24 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,840 Speaker 2: are the specific issues raised by the people actively looking 25 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 2: at New Zealand as a potential place to invest in 26 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:19,160 Speaker 2: a new supermarket. So we're responding to the people in 27 00:01:19,200 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 2: the know based on facts, having done the work. 28 00:01:22,280 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: Fantastic, But you've said all that before, because I've done 29 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:27,160 Speaker 1: interviews on each and every one of those subjects and 30 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:28,320 Speaker 1: it's all been pre announced. 31 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 2: I have never announced before that we will be introducing 32 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 2: a law and passing it by Christmas to create an 33 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 2: express lane for supermarkets. And yes, you're right, lots of 34 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 2: people have talked about that, Mike. We're doing it. We 35 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,440 Speaker 2: are changing the law in a specific way that responds 36 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 2: directly to the concerns from future competitors. Because I've heard 37 00:01:47,680 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 2: you on the show this morning, and i just want 38 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 2: to remind you what's at stake, because when a competing 39 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 2: cost co sets up, it's not just about the fact 40 00:01:54,840 --> 00:01:59,200 Speaker 2: that it has potentially cheaper prices at local shoppers around 41 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:00,800 Speaker 2: the corner from the cost co and we stalk from 42 00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 2: right now, there's a peck and save selling months the 43 00:02:03,360 --> 00:02:06,840 Speaker 2: months they sell is a dollar cheaper per telegrams the 44 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:10,119 Speaker 2: months at the peck and save in Botany. Sure, Why well, 45 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:12,240 Speaker 2: I would say to you, when you get a new competitor, 46 00:02:12,440 --> 00:02:14,640 Speaker 2: you get more price pressure. That's what we want to 47 00:02:14,639 --> 00:02:19,040 Speaker 2: deliver the groom, another Costco, another new season market. That's 48 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 2: good news for everyone. 49 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 1: So yes, options were you're getting tripped up. There are 50 00:02:25,040 --> 00:02:27,959 Speaker 1: no more cost CODs and your own admission yesterday, there 51 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:30,720 Speaker 1: might be one more. There might in the Christmas time 52 00:02:30,800 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 1: be two more in a number of years. What you 53 00:02:32,600 --> 00:02:36,120 Speaker 1: wanted was another national player. You haven't got one. I 54 00:02:36,120 --> 00:02:38,440 Speaker 1: mean we all agree. Look red tape, yes, clean it up, 55 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:41,560 Speaker 1: get consent, going fantastic, brilliant, But elder, you don't want 56 00:02:41,600 --> 00:02:43,400 Speaker 1: to bar of it. Little don't want to bar of it? 57 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:45,679 Speaker 1: Ask yourself why well? 58 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:47,560 Speaker 2: First of all, we don't want to agree. I remember 59 00:02:47,680 --> 00:02:50,239 Speaker 2: we've got an opposition that opposed all of the fast. 60 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:52,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, but you forget them. There it is. You're in charge, 61 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:54,919 Speaker 1: you're in the gum. Get on with the red tape 62 00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 1: and all that sort of stuff. We're all on board 63 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:56,959 Speaker 1: with that, mate. 64 00:02:57,080 --> 00:02:59,840 Speaker 2: Certain, let me take you back to Costco because actually 65 00:03:00,080 --> 00:03:02,960 Speaker 2: we've engaged very thoroughly with them because we didn't want 66 00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:06,079 Speaker 2: to put forward changes that don't actually work for someone 67 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:09,359 Speaker 2: who's actively looking at new investments. I'm I've said this 68 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:12,240 Speaker 2: will definitely assist them. They think this is a set 69 00:03:12,280 --> 00:03:16,000 Speaker 2: of provisions that actually will make New Zealand stand out internationally, 70 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 2: and they have said that they are actively looking at 71 00:03:19,160 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: opening new stores. Now. I don't make their investment decisions, 72 00:03:22,320 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 2: but what I can do is make sure they've got 73 00:03:23,880 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 2: the best conditions possible. I also now have a welcome 74 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:30,200 Speaker 2: mat that is very clear in law and regulation that 75 00:03:30,280 --> 00:03:34,040 Speaker 2: when we engage with AUDI little other international places Walmart 76 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,680 Speaker 2: for example, we can say, look, take another look at 77 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:39,800 Speaker 2: New Zealand. It's way easier to open new stores here 78 00:03:40,080 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 2: than it is in Australia or elsewhere. Instead of expanding 79 00:03:42,720 --> 00:03:45,520 Speaker 2: into another space in Australia, think about New Zealand. You've 80 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,120 Speaker 2: got a government who is absolutely raring to go, who 81 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 2: is on your side. Now, I owe it to everyone 82 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 2: to make sure we've taken all those steps before I 83 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 2: take any more dramatic modes. So thorough approach. 84 00:03:57,640 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: Okay, let me come to the regulation in just a 85 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: couple of months. 86 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:03,240 Speaker 2: Stated by this mic, we're on the side of a shopper. 87 00:04:03,480 --> 00:04:07,040 Speaker 1: We're all on the side of the shopper, but I 88 00:04:07,120 --> 00:04:11,000 Speaker 1: just want more action. Yes I am, but what what 89 00:04:11,720 --> 00:04:15,320 Speaker 1: did you do these things? Would this is this is 90 00:04:15,360 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: where your messages are getting mixed. 91 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:17,760 Speaker 2: Crusader is wrong. 92 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: Why I would slash, I would slash and burn the paper, 93 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: No problem with that. I would make it fast to 94 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,040 Speaker 1: do it. What you're you've got to admit costc are 95 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:29,040 Speaker 1: not rolling out a series of nationwide supermarkets. 96 00:04:29,440 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 2: Well, what that's indicated to us is that they are 97 00:04:32,960 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 2: looking at the possibility of several news stores. I take 98 00:04:36,600 --> 00:04:39,360 Speaker 2: them at their word, and I've engaged directly with them 99 00:04:39,400 --> 00:04:41,600 Speaker 2: to say, well, why is that? And the reason MIC 100 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:44,320 Speaker 2: is not just that they think there are shoppers who 101 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,480 Speaker 2: will flop to their stores because they already got more 102 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,400 Speaker 2: than one hundred thousand members in Auckland. It's also because 103 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,480 Speaker 2: they think New Zealand products are awesome. They're already selling 104 00:04:52,560 --> 00:04:54,960 Speaker 2: more than a billion dollars worth of New Zealand food 105 00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,880 Speaker 2: and their international cost codes, and they want to have 106 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,760 Speaker 2: an ongoing relationship with New Zealand which they can take 107 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:03,440 Speaker 2: more of our food products to their international store. So 108 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 2: they see us as a long term proposition that's fantastic. 109 00:05:06,960 --> 00:05:08,720 Speaker 2: It is why not get onside and get rid of 110 00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:12,400 Speaker 2: the red tape that might slow them down at a 111 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: store it would take years to do it. We're going 112 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 2: to make sure it takes a month. 113 00:05:15,480 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: The problem though with the red tape is that if 114 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:19,760 Speaker 1: Eldie and Little don't want to take part of it, 115 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: I mean they can see through that, they can see 116 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:23,640 Speaker 1: what you're trying to do. They're not idiots. So if 117 00:05:23,640 --> 00:05:25,679 Speaker 1: they're going to go, look, if you do this, we'll 118 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 1: come on board. They didn't even do that because that 119 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:29,799 Speaker 1: the market's too small. We're five and a half million people. 120 00:05:29,839 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: That's our problem, not the conspiracy you're running. 121 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 2: Well, I disagree with that because what you are seeing 122 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 2: from old is they started small in Australia and they 123 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,960 Speaker 2: went on a state by state approach and actually, when 124 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 2: you look at New Zealand, we're not dissimilar in size 125 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 2: to an Australian state. And what you do here from 126 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 2: anyone internationally thinking about investing as they say, well, we 127 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:54,839 Speaker 2: need to understand that we've got regulatory certainty, that we 128 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 2: know how the place works, that we can get things 129 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:01,640 Speaker 2: done quickly with certainty. We are developing all of those 130 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:04,000 Speaker 2: conditions so that they can take another look at us. 131 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 2: We're also got domestic players interested, Mike, and they just 132 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 2: kind of missed yesterday that they're domestic players saying okay, 133 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:14,280 Speaker 2: what would it take, and things like introducing the changes 134 00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,720 Speaker 2: to the Commerce Act to have proper predatory price in 135 00:06:16,839 --> 00:06:20,360 Speaker 2: law really important to people who are considering setting up 136 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:22,919 Speaker 2: shops in New Zealand, because what they don't want to 137 00:06:22,960 --> 00:06:26,120 Speaker 2: do is invest hundreds of millions of dollars in capital 138 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: only be to be stamped out by the big guys 139 00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 2: using their market power and appropriately. So we're taking all 140 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 2: the steps to make this easier. And it's a crusade 141 00:06:36,160 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 2: was taking on talk to on New Zealand right now. 142 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:41,279 Speaker 2: This is the biggest use of the end and I'm 143 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:42,839 Speaker 2: sensible to help. 144 00:06:42,880 --> 00:06:44,880 Speaker 1: Okay, fair enough. Proof is in the pudding. The people 145 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:47,159 Speaker 1: I've forgotten their name, sorry, the people doing your report 146 00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:49,800 Speaker 1: on the regulation of the market, the same people who 147 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:50,920 Speaker 1: did it for Labor. What are they called? 148 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,560 Speaker 2: Well, no, they are one of the advisors that we 149 00:06:54,600 --> 00:06:57,040 Speaker 2: have employed. And I'm actually taking a range of advice. 150 00:06:57,440 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: But who are. 151 00:06:59,520 --> 00:07:00,960 Speaker 2: Well, I'm not going to tell you with the names 152 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 2: of all of our advisors. 153 00:07:02,040 --> 00:07:04,320 Speaker 1: No, the one I told us yesterday, the one that's 154 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,320 Speaker 1: what they're not called. It starts with the sea come 155 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: in here. 156 00:07:07,400 --> 00:07:09,600 Speaker 2: Earlier in the year, I confirmed that we had engaged 157 00:07:09,680 --> 00:07:13,200 Speaker 2: CORI and initial with Roolis. I'm actually making sure that 158 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 2: we're accessing a wider pool of advisors because what I 159 00:07:17,080 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 2: want to make sure is that that analysis is thorough. 160 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:23,520 Speaker 2: Because I'm with you, there are risks and costs to 161 00:07:23,840 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 2: a significant move such as that, so you have to 162 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,560 Speaker 2: have looked through it carefully. And the reason I'm not 163 00:07:28,600 --> 00:07:31,119 Speaker 2: saying here's the date on which I'm launching the reporters. 164 00:07:30,760 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 2: When I get that advice, if there are gaps in it, 165 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: or there's analysis that I don't think is thorough enough, 166 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 2: you get your bottom dollar. I'm going to go back 167 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 2: to the advisors and say I need more on this, 168 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:42,480 Speaker 2: I need more analysis on that. So I'm not setting 169 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 2: a false deadline. What's important to me is we get 170 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 2: that piece of work right, that was thoroughly looked at it. 171 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,320 Speaker 2: Because many of the respondents to the request information we 172 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:53,320 Speaker 2: put out seat actually, you've got a real market power issue. 173 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 2: We think you're going to have to do something structural. 174 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:57,880 Speaker 2: There's lots of options for how we do that. We 175 00:07:57,920 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 2: think you're going to have to do something about the 176 00:07:59,320 --> 00:08:02,200 Speaker 2: dominance of the existing big players if you're really going 177 00:08:02,240 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 2: to get a competition going. 178 00:08:04,520 --> 00:08:09,280 Speaker 1: In Coriolis did this for Labor, Sure. 179 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:13,240 Speaker 2: They did, and they're doing well because we're now in 180 00:08:13,320 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 2: a very different time when water has flowed down to 181 00:08:15,520 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 2: the bridge. We have a lot more data available to 182 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,240 Speaker 2: us from the grocery Commissioner. We've also got a government 183 00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 2: who is changing the conditions in which competition can occur. 184 00:08:23,720 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 2: So those are all factors that mean the analysis today 185 00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 2: looks very different from the analyomy Labor. Well. I will 186 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:35,000 Speaker 2: be able to reveal that consparently when we when we've 187 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:36,400 Speaker 2: paid it. Well, I can't. I can't tell you that 188 00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 2: running thousand so far, Yes, but it will be a 189 00:08:40,800 --> 00:08:43,599 Speaker 2: lot cheaper, Mike than you seeing it wrong. 190 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: This industry where you both get things twice well. 191 00:08:49,679 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 2: Like you see. Alternative is that I just take advice 192 00:08:51,840 --> 00:08:55,760 Speaker 2: from the officials in Wellington who aren't competition experts, haven't 193 00:08:55,760 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: analyzed regulatory frameworks throughout the world, don't have the economists 194 00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,360 Speaker 2: and economic click modeling, and I'm not going to take 195 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 2: that approach. I want to get the very best advice 196 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:05,960 Speaker 2: available to us, because this is important to. 197 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 1: Keyw When will I be able to walk down Aisle 198 00:09:08,800 --> 00:09:13,160 Speaker 1: six and think this is noticeably cheaper because Nikola Willis 199 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: was here. 200 00:09:15,120 --> 00:09:17,240 Speaker 2: Well, I think if you were in west Aukland today 201 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:17,839 Speaker 2: and you will no. 202 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: No, just assuming that all the costcos aren't being rolled out, 203 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: When is this reform going to materially change my supermarket shop? 204 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:31,440 Speaker 2: When you've got nationwide a competitor and all of the 205 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 2: major urban centers that is making the big guys change 206 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:37,679 Speaker 2: their behavior. Now, this is a problem that built up 207 00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 2: over twenty to thirty years and I have never promised 208 00:09:39,960 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 2: there'll be an overnight solution. But the alternative point of 209 00:09:42,520 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 2: view is to say, well, because it will take a while, 210 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 2: just don't bother. And I think that is a refrecensible 211 00:09:48,000 --> 00:09:50,320 Speaker 2: way to approach government, to say, unless you can solve 212 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 2: a problem in three months with a simple solution, don't 213 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 2: even try it. Well, I'm actually here for the long 214 00:09:56,920 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 2: term of the country. This is a long term issue 215 00:09:59,559 --> 00:10:01,880 Speaker 2: in which our supermarket sector does not work as well 216 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 2: as it does in other countries and as well as 217 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 2: it should. And I am prepared to take the time 218 00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 2: to put in long term solutions that may not bear fruit, 219 00:10:09,240 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 2: that gives me instant votes tomorrow. This is actually more 220 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 2: important than that. 221 00:10:13,880 --> 00:10:17,240 Speaker 1: Appreciate your time as always, Nicolailei's Minister of Economic Growth. 222 00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:20,640 Speaker 1: For more from the My Asking Breakfast, listen live to 223 00:10:20,720 --> 00:10:23,800 Speaker 1: news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 224 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,400 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio