1 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: Madama. 2 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,040 Speaker 2: Hi, I'm Liam Dan, New Zealand Herald Business Editor at Large, 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:13,080 Speaker 2: and welcome to this episode of Money Talks. This is 4 00:00:13,080 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 2: a podcast about money, but we're not going to tell 5 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 2: you how to get rich, and we're not going to 6 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,560 Speaker 2: try and pick the next interest rate move. In this series, 7 00:00:21,760 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 2: I'll be talking to interesting New Zealanders about how money 8 00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 2: has shaped their lives and what they've learned over the years. 9 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 2: For today's podcast, I'm joined by Brisco's owner and managing director, 10 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:35,560 Speaker 2: Rod Duke Cua. 11 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 1: Rod, Welcome to Money Talks afternoon. 12 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:40,080 Speaker 2: Before we jump into some of the Money Talks questions, 13 00:00:40,040 --> 00:00:42,640 Speaker 2: I was actually looking right back. I think I first 14 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 2: interviewed you so long ago. I couldn't find it on 15 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 2: the internet, so about twenty three years ago, I reckon 16 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 2: I went to the Morning Side place and you were 17 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 2: still based there, and you know, you talked up the 18 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 2: game plan for Brisco's. You'd had it a while. But 19 00:00:57,640 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 2: I was just thinking, when you look back at what's 20 00:01:00,560 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 2: happened to retail in those twenty three years, with the 21 00:01:03,120 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 2: Internet and everything, it's almost like it's incredible, isn't it. 22 00:01:06,440 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 2: The odds were stacked against you to come this far. 23 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 2: Did you feel like that or no. 24 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 1: We were always pretty confident. Yeah, at the end of 25 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 1: the day. Back in those days, we were twelve stores, 26 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: twenty million revenue in the beginning, losing a couple of 27 00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 1: million a year, and there were some big power for 28 00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: groups out there at that time. Yeah. 29 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:28,240 Speaker 2: I mean, the warehouse was at the top of its 30 00:01:28,280 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 2: game at that point. But you somehow negotiated your way 31 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 2: through all that online retailing to find a sort of 32 00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 2: like a place in the hearts of New Zealanders for 33 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:38,520 Speaker 2: real stores. 34 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: I guess, yeah, yeah, we did. Well. 35 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:42,600 Speaker 2: Look, I'll talk a bit more about that side of 36 00:01:42,600 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 2: the business and what you do there, but I just 37 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 2: want to go right back, because Money Talks is about 38 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 2: sort of your relationship with money and just wondering what 39 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: your first memories of holding money in your hand would 40 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 2: have been. 41 00:01:53,480 --> 00:01:57,080 Speaker 1: My first memories are are still very vivid in my mind. 42 00:01:57,720 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 1: I guess about ten or twelve years old. My far 43 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:07,240 Speaker 1: was a bookmaker at the horse racing right in Adelaide, 44 00:02:07,560 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 1: And as is typical, a bookmaker fields at the races 45 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:14,400 Speaker 1: on Saturday and then when he wakes up Sunday morning, 46 00:02:14,560 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: he gets his betting bags empties all the money hopefully 47 00:02:18,600 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 1: there's a lot empties the money on the floor, and 48 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 1: says to the kids, you better count it. Wow, I 49 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:29,200 Speaker 1: want the notes sort it this way, and there's a 50 00:02:29,240 --> 00:02:32,080 Speaker 1: rubber band that you put around them, and all the 51 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,120 Speaker 1: silver he sought this way, and then if you sort it, 52 00:02:35,320 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 1: then I'll come down and I'll count it out and 53 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:41,280 Speaker 1: put it away. And so there are and I'm back 54 00:02:41,280 --> 00:02:41,919 Speaker 1: in an hour or two. 55 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,240 Speaker 2: Kids, So it's all cash. In those days, it must 56 00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:47,119 Speaker 2: have been a pretty decent wack of piles of money 57 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 2: you're dealing with. 58 00:02:48,200 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: There was some substantial around amounts of money. Fortunately for Dad, 59 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: most times there was a bit of money there, yeah, 60 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: but sometimes there was a little less. 61 00:02:58,440 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 2: Sometimes you lose. I guess when you're the book making 62 00:03:00,040 --> 00:03:00,240 Speaker 2: it was. 63 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 1: A couple of gold watchers and. 64 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, do you think that sort of influenced your understanding 65 00:03:06,919 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 2: of money and your your your your sense of value 66 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 2: of it and all that sort of stuff. 67 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:17,040 Speaker 1: Well, look, probably, probably, But my earliest memories of getting 68 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:20,640 Speaker 1: into the business was more about I was just fascinated 69 00:03:20,720 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: by the proposition of buying something and then reselling it 70 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:26,519 Speaker 1: for more. 71 00:03:26,360 --> 00:03:28,119 Speaker 2: Than I pay for it, right, yeah, yeah, yeah. 72 00:03:28,480 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: They were my biggest memories. 73 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, did you actually get pocket money for 74 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 2: helping your dad out there and like all that money 75 00:03:35,080 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 2: but you've got a bit of pocket money. 76 00:03:36,520 --> 00:03:38,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, we needed to work for it. Yeah. 77 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 2: And when you were a kid with the things that 78 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 2: you were, you know you wanted the money for. Was 79 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:44,360 Speaker 2: it you know, saving up for things? 80 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:48,200 Speaker 1: It was all about the accumulation of money, right yeah? Yeah? Yeah, 81 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 1: and the two bubb a week, you know, you don't 82 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 1: you don't get a lot after a year. Yeah, you 83 00:03:54,440 --> 00:03:58,880 Speaker 1: watched a lot of cars, but I guess you know, 84 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:01,360 Speaker 1: that was all part of growing up back in those days. 85 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, So it wasn't like you were specifically saving things. 86 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: You actually could see the value of accumulating early on, 87 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 2: because I guess a lot of you know, some kids 88 00:04:09,520 --> 00:04:11,800 Speaker 2: just some people never see that in their whole life. 89 00:04:11,920 --> 00:04:12,080 Speaker 1: Right. 90 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 2: What about it school? Did you see school as a 91 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:19,360 Speaker 2: path to sort of more money or do you academically inclined? 92 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:26,000 Speaker 1: No? I was a very unusual adolescent, not particularly keen 93 00:04:26,040 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 1: on school except for the sporting part of it. Yeah yeah, 94 00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 1: but no, for me, it was all about, you know, 95 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:39,279 Speaker 1: preparing myself for the workforce and just dying to get 96 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 1: into a shop and learn how to approach and sell 97 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: to people, how to buy something from an amount of 98 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:49,279 Speaker 1: money and then sell it for a little more. Yeah, 99 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:50,880 Speaker 1: it was all about getting experienced from me. 100 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, so you want to you wanted to do it. 101 00:04:52,760 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 2: You didn't sort of think, oh, I want to go 102 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 2: off and do a commerce degree or an accounting degree 103 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 2: or anything like that. What was the sport that you 104 00:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 2: were keen on ossie rules? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, 105 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:04,920 Speaker 2: yeahru was and cricket, and that you went bound for 106 00:05:04,960 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 2: a career in either of those, no, regrettably. Yeah. So 107 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 2: were you sort of basically keen to get out of 108 00:05:11,640 --> 00:05:13,599 Speaker 2: school as soon as you could? Did you? Did you 109 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 2: leave early or when? 110 00:05:14,760 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 1: Did you know? I left at the prescribed time? So 111 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:23,880 Speaker 1: I finished a year of schooling. I turned sixteen very 112 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:28,200 Speaker 1: quickly thereafter my birthdays in January, and I finished. I 113 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,560 Speaker 1: finished then and had my first job before the end 114 00:05:31,600 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 1: of January of that same year. 115 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:35,320 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, And so what was your first job? 116 00:05:35,800 --> 00:05:37,880 Speaker 1: Working in a shoe shop? Selling? Selling shoes? 117 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:40,800 Speaker 2: Yep, And so sales, sales was what you're keen on. 118 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,680 Speaker 1: Right, It's a it's a natural starting point. So if 119 00:05:44,720 --> 00:05:47,720 Speaker 1: you've got a retail career and you're a sixteen year old, 120 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: you never get into buying at that particular st Yeah. Yeah, 121 00:05:54,240 --> 00:05:57,760 Speaker 1: if you're clever and you can count properly, then you 122 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 1: might get into a buying office where you can do 123 00:06:02,560 --> 00:06:06,039 Speaker 1: ledges and estimates of sales and budgets and those sorts 124 00:06:06,080 --> 00:06:09,160 Speaker 1: of things. But that wasn't me. I had to start 125 00:06:08,800 --> 00:06:11,920 Speaker 1: at the very very bottom of that ladder. 126 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,560 Speaker 2: And do you think you had a natural aptitude for sales? 127 00:06:14,600 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 2: I mean, like, is it something you think you learn 128 00:06:16,320 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 2: or are you were born with it? Because some people 129 00:06:18,440 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 2: have an ability to sell and some people sort of 130 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 2: shy away from it, find too shy or something. 131 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:28,560 Speaker 1: I've always been very, very gregarious, so I relate, I 132 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:33,159 Speaker 1: think pretty well to people. I had no trouble selling 133 00:06:33,440 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 1: to customers, and I felt very very comfortable about it. 134 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,720 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, I mean in those days, I guess, I guess, 135 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,080 Speaker 2: like shoe shops, people are coming for the shoes, so 136 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:45,240 Speaker 2: it's more straightforward. But did you get in you know, 137 00:06:45,279 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 2: you went through other sales jobs where you had to 138 00:06:47,360 --> 00:06:49,840 Speaker 2: push a bit harder and twiss people's arms and things 139 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:50,000 Speaker 2: like that. 140 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I went from a sixteen year old selling 141 00:06:53,279 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: shoes through to store management. Through to major appliances. I 142 00:06:59,240 --> 00:07:02,920 Speaker 1: had nine ten or eighteen or nineteen. I was selling 143 00:07:02,960 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 1: major appliances that there's television's refrigerators, and so you're selling 144 00:07:08,080 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: to very very similar people. You're just selling them a 145 00:07:10,920 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 1: bigger package. 146 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 2: I sort of asked this question sometimes later on, But 147 00:07:15,720 --> 00:07:18,840 Speaker 2: you know, it obviously is about acquiring money. But at 148 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 2: some point, you know, is it a goal you knows 149 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,520 Speaker 2: some sort of payoff to making the sale a sort 150 00:07:24,520 --> 00:07:26,640 Speaker 2: of like sports or something. Do you sort of get 151 00:07:26,640 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 2: a high from the selling? 152 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: I think for me, I set a lot of targets 153 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:36,119 Speaker 1: for myself, and so my target at the shoe shop 154 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 1: was to sell more shoes and more accessories. You sell 155 00:07:40,560 --> 00:07:43,800 Speaker 1: more shoe laces, right, yeah, shoe every time you sell 156 00:07:43,800 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 1: the shoe. Not just about selling the shoes. 157 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 2: You know, those are the extras. 158 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll get another ten percent if in fact you 159 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:54,120 Speaker 1: sell the dream of keeping the shoes clean and tidy. 160 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,880 Speaker 1: And in major appliances, it was all about selling extras. 161 00:08:00,320 --> 00:08:02,880 Speaker 1: Is service contracts, all those sorts of things. 162 00:08:03,160 --> 00:08:06,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'm jumping around a bit, but obviously one 163 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 2: of the successes of Briscoes is finding that that point 164 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 2: where people you know that there's a point that people 165 00:08:12,520 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 2: really relate to that store for the right quality goods 166 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:18,960 Speaker 2: at the right price, all that sort of stuff. You do, 167 00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:20,880 Speaker 2: You feel like you sort of learned that on the 168 00:08:20,960 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 2: job in those early years. 169 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,600 Speaker 1: When I first came to New Zealand and purchase Briscoes. 170 00:08:29,080 --> 00:08:32,600 Speaker 1: We had to establish very very quickly what segment of 171 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:36,600 Speaker 1: the market we want to sit in, because the segment 172 00:08:36,640 --> 00:08:41,520 Speaker 1: that we're in was unsustainable. Yeah, there were too many incumbents. 173 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 1: They were very very good, They are very very big, 174 00:08:44,720 --> 00:08:47,480 Speaker 1: and they are very very powerful, and so we had 175 00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,880 Speaker 1: to find a niche in that landscape. And that landscape 176 00:08:51,040 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: was two dollars shops all the way through to department stores. Yeah, 177 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:58,679 Speaker 1: we had to find a piece of that landscape that 178 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:02,520 Speaker 1: we thought we could settle in, we could own, and 179 00:09:02,559 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: we could easily defend, because once you become successful, the 180 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:11,960 Speaker 1: barriers to entry for entry are not high, and so 181 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,320 Speaker 1: you have to find a way of defending that piece 182 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 1: of real estate. 183 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:25,280 Speaker 2: Just recapping that, that purchase of Briscoes. You were an 184 00:09:25,320 --> 00:09:29,440 Speaker 2: Australian based executive at that point, right, and you'd been 185 00:09:29,640 --> 00:09:32,640 Speaker 2: brought in basically to fix up Briscoes for the Dutch 186 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:33,240 Speaker 2: owners or. 187 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 1: Something, yes, and to sell it. 188 00:09:34,400 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, So you could you tell us a bit about 189 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 2: how that process worked and what made you what made 190 00:09:39,280 --> 00:09:41,719 Speaker 2: you decide hang on, I think I want to own 191 00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 2: this rather than do it for someone else. 192 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:46,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. I arrived in New Zealand in September nineteen eighty eight, 193 00:09:47,040 --> 00:09:48,560 Speaker 1: and one of the very very first things that we 194 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:53,040 Speaker 1: did we sat down with the primary group of management then, 195 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,240 Speaker 1: which was about a dozen people. We sat down with 196 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:59,080 Speaker 1: them and just establish what segment of the market we 197 00:09:59,120 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 1: wanted to stablished ourselves in That particular segment was high 198 00:10:03,679 --> 00:10:07,679 Speaker 1: quality product but a real good price. No one occupied 199 00:10:07,679 --> 00:10:11,880 Speaker 1: that space. There was high quality product but quite expensive. 200 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 1: There was very very very very cheap, poor quality stuff 201 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,120 Speaker 1: and real cheap, but not a lot in between. So 202 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: that was the space that we wanted to occupy, and 203 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: so we set about doing that. So we set about 204 00:10:22,600 --> 00:10:27,439 Speaker 1: acquiring brands, brand name, merchant, merchandise, and we because we 205 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 1: weren't in shopping malls, we had to promote it very, 206 00:10:30,640 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 1: very heavily because back in those days, people in New Zealand, 207 00:10:34,920 --> 00:10:37,800 Speaker 1: or customers in New Zealand had almost forgotten about us. Yeah, 208 00:10:37,840 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: we've been in business since eighteen sixty but they've forgotten 209 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: about us. There were a lot more important retailers doing 210 00:10:47,360 --> 00:10:49,439 Speaker 1: a lot of businesses at that point, so that was 211 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: our task. 212 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:53,120 Speaker 2: Did you have a marketing background, because there was some 213 00:10:53,240 --> 00:10:56,760 Speaker 2: kind of like there's the sort of iconic Brisco's lady. 214 00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:58,600 Speaker 2: It's Tammy, is that right? 215 00:10:58,679 --> 00:10:58,839 Speaker 1: Yeah? 216 00:10:58,920 --> 00:11:01,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, can you tell me about how she 217 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:04,439 Speaker 2: got involved and how you got that sort of that 218 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:05,760 Speaker 2: brand recognition going. 219 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:08,160 Speaker 1: For the first three or four months from that September 220 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:13,640 Speaker 1: right through to Christmas, we'd done loud in your face, 221 00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: high discount get into the store, right ads. That was 222 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:23,200 Speaker 1: never going to last forever, and we needed a face, 223 00:11:24,880 --> 00:11:26,679 Speaker 1: a iconic face that I could use for a very 224 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 1: long time, that projected and showed folks the value of 225 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:36,400 Speaker 1: my brand. We did a whole lot of interviews and 226 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,839 Speaker 1: Tammy came through very very strong. We tested her in 227 00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,120 Speaker 1: the market that also came through very very strong, and 228 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 1: here we are. 229 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:47,719 Speaker 2: It was a good call because she's really resonated with 230 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:48,679 Speaker 2: the New Zealand public. 231 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:50,480 Speaker 1: Right Yeah. And she's lasted a very very very long 232 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:55,360 Speaker 1: time and she's been she's been an important part of 233 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 1: our team. 234 00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:58,800 Speaker 2: Yeah. So I mean there's a lot going on there 235 00:11:58,800 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 2: with creating a brand, marketing and all that sort of stuff. 236 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,000 Speaker 2: Is there a leap that you made from you know, 237 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 2: you're working your way from the shoe sales and you're 238 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:09,200 Speaker 2: doing appliances. But what was the leap that you made 239 00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,520 Speaker 2: to get into more of a as you say, like 240 00:12:11,559 --> 00:12:13,640 Speaker 2: doing the buying as well as the selling, and more 241 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:14,840 Speaker 2: of an executive type role. 242 00:12:14,920 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well I had a number of those in Australia 243 00:12:17,000 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: before I came to newsk So in Australia, the last 244 00:12:20,960 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 1: job I had over there was the managing director of 245 00:12:24,360 --> 00:12:27,800 Speaker 1: Norman Ross, which was the forerunner of Harvey Norman, and 246 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,360 Speaker 1: that was more a fix and get back on its 247 00:12:30,360 --> 00:12:34,680 Speaker 1: feet job immediately prior to ours, with a department store 248 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:39,600 Speaker 1: chain in Sydney. So my background in retail had been 249 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,480 Speaker 1: all the way from a sixteen year old in a 250 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:47,480 Speaker 1: shoe shop, all the way through to a senior mitchell 251 00:12:47,520 --> 00:12:51,360 Speaker 1: a director role inside retail, and all the time being 252 00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: in retail. So I think I'd really passed or served 253 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,319 Speaker 1: as at each of those touch points all the way through. 254 00:13:00,120 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 1: So by the time I came to New Zealand, I 255 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: was already familiar with what might be required to fix 256 00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:10,400 Speaker 1: an organization didn't have that many problems but to fix it. 257 00:13:11,080 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: So I'd already pretty well done in Australia, which was 258 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:16,960 Speaker 1: quite a different market to New Zealand at that point. 259 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:17,320 Speaker 2: Yeah. 260 00:13:17,440 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: Sure, and so the sorts of things that I did 261 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,160 Speaker 1: there turned out to work pretty well here in this country. Yeah. 262 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 2: I mean, I guess what I'm getting at though, is 263 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:26,800 Speaker 2: like you didn't need to go back and do an 264 00:13:26,880 --> 00:13:30,080 Speaker 2: MBA or anything like any of this executive accounting stuff. 265 00:13:30,200 --> 00:13:32,040 Speaker 2: You must have kept learning all the way through, right, 266 00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 2: just learning based on solving problems as you win. Kind 267 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:35,400 Speaker 2: of thing, was it. 268 00:13:35,679 --> 00:13:38,880 Speaker 1: Look, you learn a lot in each of the roles 269 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,760 Speaker 1: that you fulfilled. In the early roles, you're learning about 270 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: people and what it takes to sell. In the middle roles, 271 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:51,239 Speaker 1: you're learning about the value of inventory, the value of promotions, 272 00:13:52,240 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 1: what turns people on, what makes people get out of 273 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,600 Speaker 1: their lounge chair and run to your store and buy something? 274 00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:02,360 Speaker 1: What did that take? Yeah, you know it's not just price. 275 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:06,240 Speaker 1: The price is a serious motivator, but it's not just price. 276 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:08,680 Speaker 1: And so you're learning all that way, all the way 277 00:14:08,720 --> 00:14:14,400 Speaker 1: through to today. You know, you're learning about the text implications, 278 00:14:14,480 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 1: the depreciation, the value of owning stores rather than renting 279 00:14:18,520 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: them or renting them at the right price. 280 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 2: So you're learning because any different body management all sorts 281 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 2: of things going on right. 282 00:14:24,560 --> 00:14:28,000 Speaker 1: Yes, And it's not just about making sales. You've got 283 00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,520 Speaker 1: to make sales, You've got to make margin. It's all 284 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,280 Speaker 1: about going to factories all over the world and buying 285 00:14:33,280 --> 00:14:35,720 Speaker 1: at the right price. As you buy at the right 286 00:14:35,760 --> 00:14:38,160 Speaker 1: price at the very very beginning. It's very, very hard 287 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,480 Speaker 1: to sell at the right price if you have not 288 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:41,600 Speaker 1: bought at the right price. 289 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,920 Speaker 2: And what about rebel rebel sport, Where did that idea 290 00:14:45,000 --> 00:14:47,720 Speaker 2: come from? Obviously that's found a niche as well. That's 291 00:14:47,760 --> 00:14:50,880 Speaker 2: really stuck in the retail landscape of New Zealand. 292 00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've been encouraged by our banker back at about 293 00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,840 Speaker 1: ninety four, nineteen ninety four to ninety five, because we 294 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 1: weren't borrowing any money, to try and borrow some money. 295 00:15:01,840 --> 00:15:04,840 Speaker 1: So it appeared to me that perhaps I should look 296 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 1: at establishing or purchasing another business. So I got bolted 297 00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: onto the business I had. I was a tennis player 298 00:15:12,240 --> 00:15:16,720 Speaker 1: back in those days, and my dear friend who I 299 00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:19,240 Speaker 1: just finished playing tennis with, I said to him Stewart, 300 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 1: I need to buy a racket and some shoes and 301 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: pants and one have you. Where do I go? He said, well, 302 00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:25,840 Speaker 1: you're going to have to go to about six or 303 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: seven stores, because not everybody sold. Some sold rackets, and 304 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:33,040 Speaker 1: some sold shorts and some sold shoes. So I said 305 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,640 Speaker 1: to him, how about how about if I set up 306 00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: a sporting good store to sold everything, every brand, all 307 00:15:39,440 --> 00:15:42,320 Speaker 1: those things in the one store. How would that go? 308 00:15:42,960 --> 00:15:46,600 Speaker 1: And he said to me, I think it go pretty good. Yeah, 309 00:15:47,240 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: And so that's where the dream of Rebel started. We 310 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:54,520 Speaker 1: found a brand name that we liked, we found some 311 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,400 Speaker 1: people in Australia who could assist us putting it together, 312 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,080 Speaker 1: which we did, and we opened their first store in 313 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: September nineteen ninety six, and the rest is ssstory. 314 00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:07,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's interesting because it's a big step to take. 315 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 2: But in the same token you've talked about, you've never 316 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,840 Speaker 2: gotten into trouble over expanding like that, which can be 317 00:16:13,880 --> 00:16:15,600 Speaker 2: a risk when you have some success, right you see 318 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,040 Speaker 2: businesses do that all the time and they take on 319 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 2: too much debt and then you have a downturn like 320 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,360 Speaker 2: we've got now and you're exposed on cash flow and whatnot. 321 00:16:23,640 --> 00:16:26,200 Speaker 2: Do you sort of see yourself as a risk averse 322 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 2: on debt clearly, clearly yesh relative to other. 323 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:35,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, But at the same time, I don't see that 324 00:16:35,080 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 1: we've ever taken, you know, real risks, serious risks. During 325 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:47,000 Speaker 1: the GFC eight we slowed expansion down. So instead what 326 00:16:47,080 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: we did we went behind the business and put in 327 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:56,520 Speaker 1: a multimillion dollar SAP financial and merchandise system, right, and 328 00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:59,240 Speaker 1: that took us two years to get that up, so 329 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 1: that by the we've come out of GFC, I had 330 00:17:02,720 --> 00:17:06,280 Speaker 1: this fully established, and so we now knew all about 331 00:17:06,280 --> 00:17:09,359 Speaker 1: our business down to light item to every dollar that 332 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: we spent. We spent four or five million dollars putting 333 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:17,080 Speaker 1: it up, and suddenly we came out of GFC and 334 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:19,719 Speaker 1: we were running, and we were running even faster and 335 00:17:19,760 --> 00:17:24,200 Speaker 1: knowing more about our business because we've made this significant 336 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: investment over this very very lean period of the GC And. 337 00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:34,040 Speaker 2: That's kind of seeing the counter cyclical, isn't it being 338 00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 2: able to time it? 339 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:38,320 Speaker 1: And quite frankly, that's what we're doing exactly now. We've 340 00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 1: just committed to a one hundred million dollar brand new 341 00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: DC facility, which we're doing now as we speak. 342 00:17:45,640 --> 00:17:48,000 Speaker 2: On that project, I wanted to ask you a little 343 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 2: bit about how you feel, you know, Officer of New 344 00:17:50,240 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 2: Zealand Order of Merit. I guess you would say at 345 00:17:52,760 --> 00:17:55,639 Speaker 2: that point you're a New Zealander, but you're also in 346 00:17:55,680 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 2: Australian and I wondered how you feel about New Zealand 347 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,359 Speaker 2: and the comparisons doing business and you know, I just 348 00:18:02,960 --> 00:18:04,600 Speaker 2: we tend to be a bit down on ourselves, especially 349 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:06,880 Speaker 2: at the moment looking across the Tasman, and I wondered 350 00:18:06,920 --> 00:18:11,160 Speaker 2: how you felt about that New Zealand sort of business 351 00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:12,080 Speaker 2: world generally. 352 00:18:12,680 --> 00:18:14,760 Speaker 1: Look, I came over here in nineteen eighty eight having 353 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 1: spent my entire working life in Australia. When I arrived 354 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,000 Speaker 1: in this country, there were a lot of things that 355 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,440 Speaker 1: we did in Australia that we didn't do in this country. 356 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: And a lot of the things that brisk goes up 357 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:32,560 Speaker 1: and running very very very very quickly. For example, Sunday trading. Yeah, 358 00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:35,360 Speaker 1: Sunday trading was illegal in this country. So we did 359 00:18:35,400 --> 00:18:40,360 Speaker 1: some homework, found out how illegal it is, how we're 360 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,199 Speaker 1: going to get caught, and find if we were to 361 00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 1: be who were the victims. Did the general public really 362 00:18:45,840 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: want it? Well they did, and we did it orbit illegally, 363 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:56,080 Speaker 1: but we were writing a month's turnover in a day. Wow. Yeah, 364 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 1: And we did it for six weeks on our own 365 00:18:57,840 --> 00:18:59,360 Speaker 1: before the government made illegal and. 366 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 2: Then the law change. Then you're up and running already, So. 367 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:02,440 Speaker 1: That's I'm up and running. 368 00:19:02,520 --> 00:19:05,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Do you think there's much of a 369 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,520 Speaker 2: character difference doing business? You know, like New Zealand is 370 00:19:07,560 --> 00:19:10,280 Speaker 2: that different to Australians. I mean Australia was more advanced 371 00:19:10,280 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 2: in the retail and probably up with some more of 372 00:19:11,960 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 2: the American innovations and things when you arrived, right, But. 373 00:19:15,119 --> 00:19:18,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, well Australia was certainly more when I came to 374 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: New Zealand. I can best characterize it has been doing 375 00:19:21,440 --> 00:19:26,119 Speaker 1: business perhaps a decade before. The sorts of things we 376 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:29,040 Speaker 1: used to do in Sydney were still being done here, 377 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: things like we were still taking checks. Yeah yeah, it 378 00:19:33,760 --> 00:19:36,920 Speaker 1: takes checks, but they were still doing it here, so 379 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:38,679 Speaker 1: we had to do it. I had a lot of 380 00:19:38,680 --> 00:19:41,399 Speaker 1: the innovative things that we do we did through the 381 00:19:41,440 --> 00:19:45,760 Speaker 1: media in Australia. We're not being done here. So we 382 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,960 Speaker 1: introduced all those very very very very quickly. Because that 383 00:19:49,080 --> 00:19:52,879 Speaker 1: was my background, that's all I knew, and as a 384 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:55,280 Speaker 1: consequence it success moved very very quickly. 385 00:19:55,560 --> 00:20:05,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, got a few quick fire questions that we run 386 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:06,480 Speaker 2: through and just off the top of your head. So 387 00:20:06,720 --> 00:20:08,560 Speaker 2: one of them is, what would you say the poorest 388 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:09,200 Speaker 2: you've ever been? 389 00:20:09,320 --> 00:20:12,320 Speaker 1: Is? Oh, gee, I guess, I guess when I first 390 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:14,720 Speaker 1: started work at sixteen years old. Yeah, yeah, I made 391 00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: the decision to go out and get a flat with 392 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:17,480 Speaker 1: three mates. 393 00:20:17,760 --> 00:20:18,879 Speaker 2: Were your parents happy about that? 394 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:20,480 Speaker 1: Well? 395 00:20:20,480 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 2: There were in those days. Is maybe it was? 396 00:20:21,880 --> 00:20:23,919 Speaker 1: That was it? Well, they probably weren't happy. Yeah, but 397 00:20:24,280 --> 00:20:26,440 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, Look, I just craved 398 00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:31,840 Speaker 1: for independence and so so I did. And I back 399 00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:33,760 Speaker 1: in those days, I don't know what I was earning 400 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,399 Speaker 1: sixty five dollars a week and there was not a 401 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:38,720 Speaker 1: lot left over, so you had to sell it. I 402 00:20:38,760 --> 00:20:40,320 Speaker 1: had to sell, I had to sell quickly. 403 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:42,960 Speaker 2: And well yeah, yeah, do you remember a point in 404 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,320 Speaker 2: those early days where you suddenly realized you did have 405 00:20:45,359 --> 00:20:47,119 Speaker 2: a few dollars in your pocket that you felt like 406 00:20:47,160 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 2: you were getting on top of it, you know? And 407 00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:50,879 Speaker 2: if so, what sort of did you splash out on 408 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,280 Speaker 2: and those sort of things. 409 00:20:52,560 --> 00:20:56,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. I have worked at Brisco's with a colleague and 410 00:20:56,440 --> 00:20:59,040 Speaker 1: he was there ten years before I was, and he 411 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:03,199 Speaker 1: was the CFO, and he's just recently retired. And I 412 00:21:03,240 --> 00:21:08,560 Speaker 1: remember one day having been at Brisco's probably for seven 413 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: or eight years, and I said to him, I think 414 00:21:12,920 --> 00:21:15,320 Speaker 1: I think we've made a fair bit of money, you know, 415 00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:19,400 Speaker 1: And he said yeah, he said, Look, you'll be read 416 00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:23,000 Speaker 1: in there now. He says that, right. There was never 417 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,679 Speaker 1: a goal. It was never something that you ever think of. 418 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:29,080 Speaker 1: I said to you a little earlier. You know, I'm 419 00:21:29,119 --> 00:21:32,480 Speaker 1: more about for me, I'm all about setting targets. My 420 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:37,440 Speaker 1: targets were to have more stores, to have a high volume, 421 00:21:38,240 --> 00:21:42,040 Speaker 1: to have more profitable stores. It was those sorts of things. 422 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: It was never about for me. It's not who's got 423 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,159 Speaker 1: the most toys, who's got the most money? 424 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, a number in the bank account. I mean, I 425 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,440 Speaker 2: guess there's a once you go into business like that, 426 00:21:52,480 --> 00:21:56,400 Speaker 2: you're constantly chasing the best business deal, the best structure, 427 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:58,199 Speaker 2: you can arrange, all that sort of stuff. We're just 428 00:21:58,200 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 2: doing business. 429 00:21:58,920 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, there is that, But also the fear of bankruptcy, 430 00:22:02,320 --> 00:22:02,919 Speaker 1: right yeah. 431 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got a lot of people who work for you, 432 00:22:04,880 --> 00:22:06,640 Speaker 2: and you know you're responsible for a lot of people. 433 00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:09,959 Speaker 1: Well, there's there's that as well. You know, I can 434 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,479 Speaker 1: remember earlier when I when I did purchase the business. 435 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: You know, I trotted along to a lot of banks, 436 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 1: and the final one that agreed to give me trading 437 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,240 Speaker 1: finance made me sign a personal guarantee for thirty five million. 438 00:22:25,600 --> 00:22:28,679 Speaker 2: Well yeah, easy getting loans in those days either was it. 439 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:30,400 Speaker 2: That wasn't, especially in this country. 440 00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,840 Speaker 1: It wasn't, but they did it. Yeah. You know, so 441 00:22:34,119 --> 00:22:38,240 Speaker 1: I'm a thirty eight year old got this, got a 442 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:41,000 Speaker 1: plan that I've got a planned Yeah, and I got 443 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: a thirty eight million to an overdraft. Wow. Yeah. You 444 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,200 Speaker 1: don't survive unless you succeed. 445 00:22:47,640 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I guess that kind of that sort of 446 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 2: instills a bit of fear of failure. You know, you've 447 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,320 Speaker 2: when you've got to overdraft that size. 448 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:57,600 Speaker 1: Or yeah, or some people sometimes some people sit down 449 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:02,320 Speaker 1: and then success actually drives them on. Yeah, other people 450 00:23:02,359 --> 00:23:04,439 Speaker 1: that the fear of failure drives themond. 451 00:23:04,960 --> 00:23:07,800 Speaker 2: But something both are going because you could you know, 452 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 2: you could have sold out ten twenty years ago or whatever, 453 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,840 Speaker 2: and you probably had a house and a batch and 454 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:18,120 Speaker 2: you know, so something you must love doing business. 455 00:23:19,119 --> 00:23:23,040 Speaker 1: I can't begin to imagine what I would do if 456 00:23:23,080 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 1: I didn't have the responsibility of a business that I 457 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:27,720 Speaker 1: basically gave birth to. 458 00:23:28,040 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and so so I guess that's a sort 459 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 2: of a satisfaction type thing. The other other hobbies that 460 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 2: you have. 461 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 1: Look, I like playing golf. I like running around the world, 462 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:43,120 Speaker 1: touring around the world ye with my beautiful wife and 463 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,760 Speaker 1: my good mates. Yep. I like nice wine. 464 00:23:47,840 --> 00:23:50,480 Speaker 2: I like socializing the things. 465 00:23:50,560 --> 00:23:51,200 Speaker 1: Yeah yeah. 466 00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,560 Speaker 2: What about if I asked as what would you say 467 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 2: the most indulgent purchase you'd ever. 468 00:23:56,520 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: Made outside of a house that a came in out? Yeah? 469 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:02,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, something that you splashed out on yourself. 470 00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,680 Speaker 1: For oh myself, I don't know, Probably probably not very much. 471 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:11,320 Speaker 1: I bought myself three new suits when I was away, right, yeah, 472 00:24:11,680 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 1: four weeks ago. Yeah. I don't spend a lot of 473 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: money on myself. I love buying a thousand doll a 474 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: bottle of wine for a bunch of mates overseas. 475 00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 2: So you can splash out when you for the experiences. 476 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,320 Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, Well that's something in itself, isn't it, 477 00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 2: The ability to do that. I love making occasions, memories, 478 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,800 Speaker 2: that sort of thing. You probably aren't in charge of this, 479 00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:40,960 Speaker 2: but we've been asking because our promised Christopher Luxen was 480 00:24:41,000 --> 00:24:43,119 Speaker 2: asked on the campaign trail how much he spent on 481 00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,000 Speaker 2: groceries during a week, and he said sixty dollars because 482 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 2: he was talking about his coffee and whatnot in his 483 00:24:48,680 --> 00:24:51,720 Speaker 2: flat and Wellington, I think, but do you have any 484 00:24:51,880 --> 00:24:53,680 Speaker 2: budget for the grocery shopping? Are you in charge of 485 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,600 Speaker 2: any of that? We trust your wife. 486 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, not my department. 487 00:24:59,080 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 2: Fair enough. We often ask there was a big lotto 488 00:25:02,440 --> 00:25:06,080 Speaker 2: draw recently. Do you still buy a lotto tickets? Do 489 00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:06,360 Speaker 2: you ever? 490 00:25:06,480 --> 00:25:06,800 Speaker 1: Did you? 491 00:25:06,840 --> 00:25:07,360 Speaker 2: Did you ever? 492 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: I have probably bought six in my entire life. Yeah. 493 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: The odds are the odds are too great. 494 00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:15,920 Speaker 2: Yeah. What about did you with your you know, outbringing 495 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,480 Speaker 2: with your dad, did you get a bug for betting 496 00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:19,679 Speaker 2: on the horses or anything like that? 497 00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:21,760 Speaker 1: Yeah? I do a bit of that. I do a 498 00:25:21,760 --> 00:25:24,400 Speaker 1: bit of that. Yeah, that's that's one thing I have bought. 499 00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:25,320 Speaker 1: I bought race horses. 500 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,200 Speaker 2: Oh I suppose that's that's a hobby. 501 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a hobby. That's expensive hobby. But it can be, Yeah, 502 00:25:30,760 --> 00:25:32,000 Speaker 1: it can be. But it can be a lot of 503 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:32,560 Speaker 1: fun as well. 504 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:35,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, and it can actually be a good investment sometimes too, right, 505 00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,800 Speaker 2: So it's not totally not often. Oh, well, you know 506 00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:41,320 Speaker 2: that that's an exciting thing to be involved with. So 507 00:25:41,359 --> 00:25:42,959 Speaker 2: you can be betting on a horse that you've actually 508 00:25:43,160 --> 00:25:44,320 Speaker 2: got a real stake in, right. 509 00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:45,879 Speaker 1: Yeah, when not so long ago we ran second in 510 00:25:45,880 --> 00:25:46,520 Speaker 1: the Melbourne Cup. 511 00:25:46,800 --> 00:25:48,360 Speaker 2: Wow, Yeah, so that's pretty good. 512 00:25:48,480 --> 00:25:51,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, well that is that's that's that's that's a big thrill. 513 00:25:51,240 --> 00:25:53,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's something that would you know when you think 514 00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,800 Speaker 2: think back to your dad being a bookie, he must 515 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,760 Speaker 2: have been be quite impressed with that. We've sort of 516 00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 2: touched on. Yeah, making money important to here or is 517 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,560 Speaker 2: it a byproduct of success? It sounds like it primarily 518 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:05,920 Speaker 2: is a byproduct of success. 519 00:26:06,520 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: Look, I think it's is byproduct, but for me it's not. 520 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 1: It's not a real motivator making making money for the 521 00:26:12,600 --> 00:26:16,719 Speaker 1: business so I can support the two thousand families who 522 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:20,199 Speaker 1: work in the business. Yeah, now that's now that's a 523 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:25,200 Speaker 1: bit of fun. Yeah. And COVID recently with the lockdowns 524 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 1: that tested us enormously, but that was a lot of 525 00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:31,439 Speaker 1: fun to get through that survive that come out a 526 00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,679 Speaker 1: very very much stronger business. Yeah, you know that that 527 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:36,639 Speaker 1: was a that was a bit of fun looking back, 528 00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: and it was a lot of fun then. But it's 529 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:39,600 Speaker 1: a lot of fun looking back on it. 530 00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I won't. I won't go massively into the business 531 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 2: side of things right now, but you feel comfortable that 532 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:46,640 Speaker 2: you're doing all right. There's a lot of gloom out 533 00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:49,800 Speaker 2: there in the economy, and we've seen you know, Smith 534 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:52,280 Speaker 2: and Coe's and sort of a lot of retailers talking 535 00:26:52,280 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 2: about how rough it is, you know it is. Do 536 00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 2: you feel you've got a sort of a very robust 537 00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:00,479 Speaker 2: structure there to get through this sort of cycle. 538 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,440 Speaker 1: That we're in a glamorous position that for the last 539 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,280 Speaker 1: thirty five years we've saved a lot of money. We 540 00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:11,480 Speaker 1: haven't borrowed any money from a bank for twenty five years, 541 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,080 Speaker 1: so we're cash riche we're not indebted. 542 00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, which is pretty crucial at a time like this. 543 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,160 Speaker 2: It's the guys who've got big debts that are. 544 00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,160 Speaker 1: Exactly We've got spectacular staff. We've looked after them all 545 00:27:24,200 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: through COVID. Look, make no mistake, it's tough. It's very, very, 546 00:27:29,080 --> 00:27:32,360 Speaker 1: very tough in the suburbs. And look, I'm not going 547 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: to have a record year in terms of profit, but 548 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,000 Speaker 1: we're going to go right. Yeah, we'll go right. 549 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,479 Speaker 2: And I guess you way up. Whether you're expanding now 550 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:42,359 Speaker 2: or whether you're just hungering down. 551 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: To the couple of things you put on hold until 552 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:48,320 Speaker 1: it gets better. Sometimes you spend a lot of money 553 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:50,520 Speaker 1: when it's tough because you know you're going to come 554 00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:52,400 Speaker 1: out of it. Yeah, I just can't tell you whether 555 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:53,640 Speaker 1: it's going to be at the end of this year 556 00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 1: or next year. But no, that's right, come through it. 557 00:27:56,480 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 2: Yeah, the cycle will turn and the strongest will survive. 558 00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 2: On that sort of broader economic stuff, if there was 559 00:28:02,720 --> 00:28:05,560 Speaker 2: something that you could change in New Zealand to sort 560 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 2: of improve their country's economy or all that sort of stuff, 561 00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:10,200 Speaker 2: you know, if we can make your Prime minister for 562 00:28:10,240 --> 00:28:11,879 Speaker 2: a day, is there something that you would want to 563 00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,159 Speaker 2: see put your focus on to change the absolutely settings 564 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 2: in New Zealand? 565 00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I'd be looking at the education system. Yeah, yeah, 566 00:28:21,240 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: I think the education system right now in this country 567 00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:24,400 Speaker 1: is absolutely appalling. 568 00:28:24,760 --> 00:28:26,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean there's a lot of talk that it's 569 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:28,919 Speaker 2: kind of been let slide. So what would you like 570 00:28:28,920 --> 00:28:29,240 Speaker 2: to see? 571 00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:32,360 Speaker 1: Just look, I'd like to see just the return to basics. 572 00:28:32,800 --> 00:28:38,880 Speaker 1: I'd like to see for probably high school beyond primary school, 573 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:44,080 Speaker 1: you know, some focus on economics, on budgeting, on those 574 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:48,960 Speaker 1: sorts of things to teach kids' life skills, you know, 575 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 1: And I just don't. I just don't see that it's 576 00:28:52,360 --> 00:28:55,040 Speaker 1: happening right now. Now. I'm not an expert on the 577 00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: education system. My land has gone through that now. He's 578 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,080 Speaker 1: twenty seven, twenty eight years old, so yeah, you know, 579 00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,120 Speaker 1: he's been out of it for probably several eight years now. 580 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,680 Speaker 1: But everyone you talk to who has kids of that 581 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:12,640 Speaker 1: that age, you know, tell me that the system is 582 00:29:12,760 --> 00:29:13,960 Speaker 1: just in ruins. 583 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, and kids not really having coming out with a 584 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,040 Speaker 2: sense of Yeah, like you say, the sense of financial literacy, 585 00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:26,240 Speaker 2: isn't it really? Which I guess you've got almost a 586 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:29,760 Speaker 2: better start in that with like your dad and the money. 587 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,160 Speaker 2: You know, you know, the value of a dollar is 588 00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:34,120 Speaker 2: an important thing to learn quite early on, right. 589 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. But even back then, you know, I could, I 590 00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:41,680 Speaker 1: could tell my seven times table, and you understood the 591 00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 1: basics of mathematics. I knew how to write. Yeah. I'm 592 00:29:47,120 --> 00:29:50,360 Speaker 1: not sure that a lot of kids these days are 593 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:51,960 Speaker 1: even getting that. Yeah. 594 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, And if someone hands you a note, you know 595 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:55,680 Speaker 2: what change to give them back? 596 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: Yeah. I don't think it's complicated, but it certainly needs 597 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:01,440 Speaker 1: some Yeah. 598 00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 2: So just to wrap up, what then. I know we 599 00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:05,600 Speaker 2: talked about it being a tough economy, but do you 600 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,640 Speaker 2: still have plans and vision for Risco and Rebelsport the brands. 601 00:30:09,760 --> 00:30:13,160 Speaker 1: You know, it's it's not over. Yeah, we've got some 602 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: big plans coming up. We're looking to expand the business. 603 00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: We're looking to acquire or establish a bigger business. This 604 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:26,840 Speaker 1: business has a lot of capacity, a fabulous trading platform 605 00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:31,440 Speaker 1: and we think we don't think we're we need the 606 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:32,640 Speaker 1: end of expansion yet. 607 00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:35,160 Speaker 2: That's great, Rod, We'll leave it there. Thanks for being 608 00:30:35,160 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 2: on Money Talks. Thank you mate, Thanks for listening to 609 00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:40,600 Speaker 2: this episode of Money Talks. If you want to get 610 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,200 Speaker 2: in touch, drop me a line at Liam dot Dan 611 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:47,360 Speaker 2: at nzmeet dot co dot nz and you can read 612 00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:50,880 Speaker 2: more from me at zidherld dot co dot nz. Thanks 613 00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 2: to my producer Ethan sills can sound engineer LeAnn McDonald. 614 00:30:55,840 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 2: Follow Money Talks on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, 615 00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:02,200 Speaker 2: with new few episodes available every Thursday.