1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,440 Speaker 1: Is an A grade today worth the same as an 2 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,000 Speaker 1: A grade twenty years ago? A new report out this 3 00:00:05,040 --> 00:00:07,680 Speaker 1: morning from the New Zealand Initiative shows the proportion of 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:11,440 Speaker 1: A grades given out at universities has increased seven percent 5 00:00:11,480 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: to thirty five percent. This is since two thousand and six, 6 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:18,079 Speaker 1: and during COVID get this, nearly half of all marks 7 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 1: were a's. So are we just giving out a's? Willing 8 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,680 Speaker 1: Nellie Elizabeth A Data is Sociology of Education professor at 9 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:27,640 Speaker 1: the University of Auckland with me now, good morning, Oh 10 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: good morning, Ryan, good to have you on the program. 11 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 1: Tell me what are we just handing these A grades out? 12 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:37,680 Speaker 1: Or are the standards dropping or the students getting smarter? 13 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,480 Speaker 2: Well, I think the really good thing about the Tursted 14 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:46,280 Speaker 2: report is that from the New Zealand Initiative is that 15 00:00:46,479 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 2: it actually gives us some empirical data which we've needed 16 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 2: for a long time. So we know now we've got 17 00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:57,800 Speaker 2: the evidence that there is a problem, and I think 18 00:00:57,840 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 2: it's time to have a really close look at all 19 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,560 Speaker 2: the factors that have produced this problem, because you know, 20 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:09,479 Speaker 2: I've been the University of Auckland for four decades now, 21 00:01:09,560 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 2: and yeah, it's my experience that this has happened, but 22 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,240 Speaker 2: I haven't had the evidence until now, so it's really 23 00:01:16,280 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 2: good to see the report. 24 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: Why is it happening, Oh gosh. 25 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:23,720 Speaker 2: Well, lots of factors, but what I think it boils 26 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,800 Speaker 2: down to is that there's been a real cultural shift 27 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 2: over the last twenty thirty years from merit to equity, 28 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,360 Speaker 2: the idea that everyone should succeed, you know, the equal 29 00:01:35,400 --> 00:01:43,319 Speaker 2: outcomes approach, and that's and that has been anticipated by NCA, 30 00:01:44,360 --> 00:01:50,160 Speaker 2: so that we've now got the we've got students expecting 31 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,400 Speaker 2: to receive a's and not realizing that you actually have 32 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:56,800 Speaker 2: to work extremely hard and you have to have real 33 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 2: ability and a subject to get an A and not 34 00:01:59,600 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 2: everyone does. But as I say, over the last few decades, 35 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 2: there's been an assumption that everyone should be able to 36 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,119 Speaker 2: achieve the same standard. 37 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 1: Some academics apparently have said that they've been told instructed 38 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 1: by their faculty to give a's to people who basically 39 00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 1: just for showing up. Have you heard of anything like 40 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:19,960 Speaker 1: that happening. 41 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 2: I've heard about it. My own experience is that there's 42 00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 2: just a societal pressure and the students they feel the 43 00:02:30,639 --> 00:02:35,959 Speaker 2: pressure to they expect to get high marks. It's what 44 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:41,520 Speaker 2: they've encountered at secondary school an NCEA. You know, they 45 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 2: will take subjects. Not all students, of course, but a 46 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,160 Speaker 2: number do take subjects where they can be sure that 47 00:02:50,120 --> 00:02:52,720 Speaker 2: the subject isn't too demanding that they will get a 48 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 2: high mark. So there's this sort of culture of expectation 49 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 2: that is not really found it in the actual ability 50 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,360 Speaker 2: and the hard work of all students. 51 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: Elizabeth, what's a really quick way to work out who 52 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: is actually an A level student? 53 00:03:10,639 --> 00:03:13,360 Speaker 2: Oh gosh, well, it's to get them to write essays 54 00:03:13,400 --> 00:03:15,160 Speaker 2: and to do external exams. 55 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:18,239 Speaker 1: Appreciate your time this morning, Elizabeth, a Arts sociology of 56 00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:21,760 Speaker 1: Education professor at the University of Auckland. For more from 57 00:03:21,800 --> 00:03:25,040 Speaker 1: Early Edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live to news Talks 58 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:28,360 Speaker 1: it'd be from five am weekdays, or follow the podcast 59 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio.