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Speaker 1: And Nikolaules is the finance ministers with US high Nicola.

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Speaker 2: Good evening, Heather.

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Speaker 1: Do you reckon this? Is it on the tariffs? We

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Speaker 1: won't get a better deal?

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Speaker 2: Well? I think there is the possibility that we could,

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Speaker 2: in particular because the blunt reason why we're facing fifteen

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Speaker 2: percent is that in the most recent year we had

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Speaker 2: a trade deficit with the US. We sold them more

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Speaker 2: than we bought from them. But that has changed year

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Speaker 2: to year over the past decade, and we could expect

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Speaker 2: it to change in the future. So the question for

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Speaker 2: US is if it does change, does that mean we

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Speaker 2: get better treatment?

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Speaker 1: So do you think this is something that they are

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Speaker 1: going to keep revising as we go along?

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Speaker 2: Well, I would simply observe that they have continued to

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Speaker 2: revise their position on tariffs pretty continuously, and so it's

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Speaker 2: not impossible to imagine that that could continue into them.

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Speaker 1: But then isn't that something that's going to fluctuate every

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Speaker 1: single time we go into deficittle surplus from their point

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Speaker 1: of view.

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Speaker 2: Look, I don't know the answer to that, but that's

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Speaker 2: exactly heavily.

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Speaker 1: Is it possible you're being overly hopeful here, because I

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Speaker 1: mean this seems to me to have been locked in

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Speaker 1: at a point in time, and now Australia is it's

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Speaker 1: on ten percent and we sit on fifteen percent, And

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Speaker 1: I can't imagine that they're going to put the effort

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Speaker 1: into keeping on changing this every single time every single

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Speaker 1: country goes into a different position.

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Speaker 2: This just means I'm being resolute, which is that we

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Speaker 2: need to take every opportunity and angle to push the

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Speaker 2: best case for our exporters, and we do think we

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Speaker 2: have a strong case. How that will be met by

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Speaker 2: the US administration is yet to unfold. But if this

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Speaker 2: is about trade deficits and surpluses and that's a changing position,

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Speaker 2: then we would hope that the tariff could change.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So what's our strong case that we're taking.

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Speaker 2: To them First That we have a very balanced and

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Speaker 2: complementary relationship, that we're a very good and long standing

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Speaker 2: friend of the US, that our trade is complementary and

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Speaker 2: non threatening, and that we do expect to be buying

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Speaker 2: quite a lot from the US in the coming few years,

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Speaker 2: and that we'd like that reflected in our tariff position.

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Speaker 1: Is that with the boeings.

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Speaker 2: Well with our general defense procurement, we've made a big

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Speaker 2: commitment to build holding the capability of our defense force

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Speaker 2: across a number of areas were ye'd expect US manufacturers

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Speaker 2: would be some of those bidding for the contracts.

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Speaker 1: Had we thought about possibly removing all the tariffs that

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Speaker 1: we slap on US goods, well.

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Speaker 2: All of those things are potential considerations in a negotiation,

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Speaker 2: but at this point, we already have incredibly low tariffs

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Speaker 2: on US goods, so we don't actually have that much

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Speaker 2: to bring to the table. And that's one of the

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Speaker 2: points that we've been making. We're not a country that's

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Speaker 2: been playing fast and loose, but we haven't tried.

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Speaker 1: To break the rules. Their footwear we slap with ten percent.

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Speaker 2: That's not that low, which is low relative to a

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Speaker 2: lot of other countries.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but we're getting ten percent and we're moaning about that.

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Speaker 2: So tall in terms, but overall, in terms of how

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Speaker 2: much we import from the States, the average tariff rate

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Speaker 2: across what we actually import large amounts of is lower

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Speaker 2: than that. Heather, and our reciprocal tariffs are much lower

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Speaker 2: than they are and lots of the other countries. So

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Speaker 2: we've got a good case.

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Speaker 1: What about if because I know that they are apparently

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Speaker 1: annoyed about our biosecurity regime with some of their exports

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Speaker 1: imports for US, would we consider having a look at that?

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Speaker 2: Well, those are always things that we look at because

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Speaker 2: we play by the rules, which is we don't use

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Speaker 2: our biosecurity regime as an excuse for restricting an importation

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Speaker 2: of products. If it's ever perceived that we are, we're

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Speaker 2: always prepared to look at it. But this is a

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Speaker 2: case where anything that we do at our end we

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Speaker 2: want to lead to advantage for our exporters at the

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Speaker 2: US end. So those are the issues that our negotiators

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Speaker 2: will be stepping out.

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Speaker 1: Why didn't we send Vangelis Vitalis.

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Speaker 2: Before, Well, the very clear indication that we had at

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Speaker 2: the ministerial level was that we were not on the

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Speaker 2: naughty list, We weren't on the bad list, and that

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Speaker 2: making efforts to get negotiation weren't going to be successful

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Speaker 2: because we simply weren't on the list of people that

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Speaker 2: were at risk. And as it's played out, really there

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Speaker 2: was an exception made Australia based on that blunt assessment

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Speaker 2: that they export more to the US than they import

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Speaker 2: from the US, and nothing we negotiated would have changed

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Speaker 2: that blunt fact.

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Speaker 1: Now talk me through these dock charges. How are we

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Speaker 1: going to do this at for example, let's say Cathedral Cove.

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Speaker 2: Well, a lot of people going to Cathedral Cove go

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Speaker 2: on a boat as part of a tour group. So

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Speaker 2: you could envisage that potentially that tour group would put

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Speaker 2: the charge directly to those people they're putting on the boat.

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Speaker 2: You could also imagine that for those who walk in,

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Speaker 2: you could have some sort of a turnstile. Technology these

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Speaker 2: days is pretty advanced in terms of what perhaps we

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Speaker 2: can have on our phone elsewhere. That's one of the

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Speaker 2: issues that we will be consulting with the industry about

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Speaker 2: over the coming months. It cannot be too hard to

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Speaker 2: charge a simple fee for international tourists to see one

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Speaker 2: of the most beautiful places in the country. Know what,

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Speaker 2: every other country around the world manages to do it.

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Speaker 2: And anyone who says to me, oh, it's too complicated,

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Speaker 2: I say, come on, this is pretty simple.

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Speaker 1: Really Okay? Now I like this that. Okay, are you

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Speaker 1: going to fix or change anything about the surcharge ban

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Speaker 1: as it is right now? Because you cannot tell me

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Speaker 1: that you are going to do this to some of

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Speaker 1: your voters months before the election.

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Speaker 2: The first thing that I want to fix is I

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Speaker 2: want small businesses to hear this message, which they didn't

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Speaker 2: hear I think in some cases. Which is the first

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Speaker 2: thing that happened was the Commerce Commission regulated what prices

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Speaker 2: MasterCard and Visa can charge you for your merchant fees

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Speaker 2: and for your pay services, and they have mandated that

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Speaker 2: those costs need to reduce significantly by tens of millions,

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Speaker 2: which will have a cost reduction.

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Speaker 1: Come on, Nicholae, it's nineteen million dollars out of about

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Speaker 1: a billion. It's it's it's small change. And then add

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Speaker 1: on to that everything else that gets charged on top

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Speaker 1: of Visa and MasterCard, the retail banks, it's massive. That

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Speaker 1: made no difference. What are you going to change because

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Speaker 1: you cannot do this to small and medium sized businesses.

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Speaker 2: It is a significant cost reduction. The second thing is

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Speaker 2: that we are expecting the Commerce Commission to work with

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Speaker 2: the banks to provide businesses much more clear, transparent and

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Speaker 2: easily comparable price information to allow businesses to negotiate with

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Speaker 2: You will.

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Speaker 1: Have noticed, Nicola, Come on, if you put this on

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Speaker 1: on businesses and you force them to absorb this mid

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Speaker 1: next year, midwinter, just before you go to the election.

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Speaker 1: You know you're going to lose voters. You can't do this.

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Speaker 2: Well, here's the principled point, which I think is important.

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Speaker 2: We do know that consumers in New Zealand are currently

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Speaker 2: paying tens of millions and excess to charges. The Commerce

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Speaker 2: Commission have done a lot of work on this. We

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Speaker 2: have a culture in our country which I appreciate as

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Speaker 2: a consumer, Unlike some countries around the world. The price

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Speaker 2: you see on the tag is the price you pay

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Speaker 2: at the till, and you don't get to the till

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Speaker 2: and then have vat added this charge and that charge.

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Speaker 2: And what that does is empowers consumers to know is

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Speaker 2: it cheaper here or down the road. And we don't

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Speaker 2: think that the merchant payWave schemes are enough of a

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Speaker 2: justification for changing that long standing practice. Now, individual retailers

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Speaker 2: will manage this in different ways, but we are confident

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Speaker 2: that can be managed and that the consumer will win

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Speaker 2: out of it and that small businesses will adampt.

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Speaker 1: All right now on the road Cones tipline, Can I

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Speaker 1: implore you to get rid of this thing because it's pointless.

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Speaker 2: Well, actually, you know Van Velden brought it in for

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Speaker 2: a reason she went to her agency.

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Speaker 1: Come on, you know it does nothing. You know that

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Speaker 1: all it does is it goes in checks that they've

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Speaker 1: got as many road cones laid out as the onerous

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Speaker 1: rules require them to. And it's costing us. What is

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Speaker 1: it like four hundred thousand dollars to run the thing?

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Speaker 1: Get rid of it, save the money.

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Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. So as a as a government,

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Speaker 2: the last government was spending seven hundred and eighty six

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Speaker 2: million dollars on temporary traffic management. We've brought those costs

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Speaker 2: down massively for our own road projects. But what we've

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Speaker 2: observed is that a lot of councils around the country

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Speaker 2: haven't done that, haven't changed why.

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Speaker 1: Busci's idea is fantastic. Right, So Bush is saying, if

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Speaker 1: you don't follow the rules and go for few cones,

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Speaker 1: were withholding money. But which makes it makes Brooks tip

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Speaker 1: line just a performance so cut it?

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Speaker 2: Well, Look, it's belt Embrace's approach. Heither is what I

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Speaker 2: would describe it as. On the one hand, we are

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Speaker 2: mandating that for councils that they have to update their

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Speaker 2: guidance and their approach, and on the other hand, we're

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Speaker 2: empowering rate payers that if they see it looking bad,

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Speaker 2: they can tip us off and gives us a clear

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Speaker 2: basis on which to follow up.

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Speaker 1: All right, Nichola, thanks very much, appreciated. Look after yourself.

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Speaker 1: That's Nicola Willis, the Finance Minister. For more from Heather

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Speaker 1: Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to news Talks it'd be

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Speaker 1: from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio