1 00:00:00,560 --> 00:00:03,280 Speaker 1: Afternoon. Parliament is set to change the law later today 2 00:00:03,279 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: to make it harder for Ewe and Hapoo to gain 3 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:08,080 Speaker 1: customary title over coastal areas. It's a change to the 4 00:00:08,119 --> 00:00:11,159 Speaker 1: Marine and Coastal Area Act, which was originally introduced by 5 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: their Attorney General, Chrispin Layson in twenty eleven under the 6 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:15,880 Speaker 1: Key government. And he's with us now. 7 00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 2: High Chris hihether, I'm trying to get home to Wellington. 8 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,320 Speaker 2: I bet you're pleased you don't live in Candala anymore. 9 00:00:22,560 --> 00:00:24,599 Speaker 1: Lord. There are many days where I think the good Lord, 10 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:27,680 Speaker 1: I don't live in Candala anymore. Good luck getting home. 11 00:00:27,880 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: But thank you for your time, listener. You challenging the 12 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: government's assertion that this change brings the law closer to 13 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:34,480 Speaker 1: what was originally intended. 14 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 2: Yes, it doesn't. It changes the law and you've only 15 00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:39,920 Speaker 2: got to look at the section dealing with burden of 16 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 2: truths to realize that they playing around with it. So 17 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:45,960 Speaker 2: it doesn't clarify the law at all. It changes And 18 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:48,839 Speaker 2: if they want to do that, well, of course Parliament's sovereign. 19 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 2: But why don't they come out and say it instead 20 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:51,840 Speaker 2: of indulging in this myth? 21 00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 1: So what was the original intention. How much of this 22 00:00:55,840 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: land would have been handed back under the original intention? 23 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 2: Well didn't it? Well that's the wrong question. Really, the 24 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 2: question is what was the test, And it was a 25 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:09,039 Speaker 2: test that was worked out over quite some considerable time 26 00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:11,560 Speaker 2: with the Maori Party and the officials. So it's a 27 00:01:11,600 --> 00:01:14,440 Speaker 2: property right. In order to prove you had the property right, 28 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:17,280 Speaker 2: you had to prove that you're held in accordance with 29 00:01:17,400 --> 00:01:21,000 Speaker 2: Tea konger and exclusive use and occupation since eighteen forty 30 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 2: without substantial interruption. 31 00:01:23,319 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 1: As of what's it been changed too? 32 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:26,520 Speaker 2: I beg your pardon? 33 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: What is it being changed too? 34 00:01:28,720 --> 00:01:33,360 Speaker 2: Oh well, the test for proving extinguishment now flips to 35 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 2: EWE and the test for establishing customary title has been made. 36 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,559 Speaker 2: I would say it's even harder than what Halen Clark 37 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 2: had in her foreshore legislation in two thousand and four. 38 00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: Okay, practically under your test, how much of the land, 39 00:01:49,240 --> 00:01:51,520 Speaker 1: had you, guys, foreseen, would have been handed back? 40 00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 2: Oh? Well, it's not handed back because public access was 41 00:01:55,920 --> 00:02:01,280 Speaker 2: always guaranteed and if there was an urgent walks that 42 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:04,000 Speaker 2: needed to be built or some kind of infrastructure, that 43 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:07,320 Speaker 2: was all covered under the accommodated Activities so the question 44 00:02:07,400 --> 00:02:12,120 Speaker 2: you're asking is what had I anticipated would probably be 45 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:17,040 Speaker 2: the area where there would be extant customary title and 46 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:19,840 Speaker 2: I would have said, I said in about twenty twelve 47 00:02:20,720 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: something around the region of ten percent, But that was 48 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,880 Speaker 2: sort of a guestimate on my part. 49 00:02:26,120 --> 00:02:29,320 Speaker 1: Okay, And do you have any idea what the changes 50 00:02:29,360 --> 00:02:31,519 Speaker 1: will lead to down from ten percent. 51 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 2: I'll probably nil you regain. 52 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: Question is why have you left it until the day 53 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:38,880 Speaker 1: it passes to say. 54 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:42,480 Speaker 2: This, I haven't. Why do you say that I've been 55 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 2: in a principled way, consistent with my respect for property 56 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 2: rights and the rule of law, raising these issues. Audrey's 57 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 2: article appeared in the Herald today, but it's not the 58 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:57,520 Speaker 2: first one. There have been a number of points that 59 00:02:57,520 --> 00:03:01,280 Speaker 2: I've been making over the last six months about this 60 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:04,840 Speaker 2: because it's a matter that means a lot to me, 61 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:09,120 Speaker 2: because I work very hard with the Maori Party and 62 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:13,200 Speaker 2: with various interest groups like the Ports Association to craft 63 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,360 Speaker 2: a response to the Foreshore and Seabed Act which would 64 00:03:17,400 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 2: be enduring, and these people are just sweeping it away, 65 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:23,560 Speaker 2: paying no attention to the past. 66 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 1: Chris, thank you for your time and good luck getting 67 00:03:25,280 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 1: back to Candala. That is Chris fin Lesson, the former 68 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: Attorney General. 69 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 2: For more from Hither Duplessy Allen Drive listen live to 70 00:03:32,600 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 2: news talks. It'd be from four pm weekdays, or follow 71 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.