WEBVTT - Government hits back as school lunch programme continues to face criticism - will the scheme survive?

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<v Speaker 1>I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a

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<v Speaker 1>daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. A brainchild

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<v Speaker 1>of the previous Labor government, the Healthy School Lunches program

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<v Speaker 1>provides free lunches to about two hundred and forty two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand students in greatest need. Since its launch, the program

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<v Speaker 1>has often been a target by politicians and commentators of

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<v Speaker 1>the cost involved in the scheme. It's now under supervision

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<v Speaker 1>of Associate Education Minister David Seymour, and a cheaper alternative

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<v Speaker 1>to it launched this year, but it's faced a myriad

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<v Speaker 1>of issues, notably incidents of unappetizing, late or absent food

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<v Speaker 1>deliveries and a more serious case of one child suffering

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<v Speaker 1>second degree burns from a hot lunch. As a result,

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<v Speaker 1>hundreds of meals have been left uneaten and now one

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<v Speaker 1>company contracted to deliver the food has gone into liquidation.

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<v Speaker 1>So why are free school lunches such a source of

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<v Speaker 1>controversy and can the government get past the negative headlines

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<v Speaker 1>around them? Today on the Front Page, we're joined by

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<v Speaker 1>Victoria University of Wellington politics professor doctor Lara Greaves to

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<v Speaker 1>discuss why there's no such thing as a free lunch, Lara,

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<v Speaker 1>are you surprised by how often we've been talking about

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<v Speaker 1>school lunches so far this year? I mean we're only

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<v Speaker 1>about a month and a half into the school year,

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<v Speaker 1>and it feels like every week we've heard stories about this.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, look, Kaur, I'm not surprised about the school lunches.

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<v Speaker 2>Is the fact that there are pictures. So this is

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<v Speaker 2>one of those political issues where you can actually just

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<v Speaker 2>take a photo of a school lunch and voters can

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<v Speaker 2>make snap judgments based on a whether they would eat

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<v Speaker 2>the food or b whether they wouldn't. It's kind of

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<v Speaker 2>one of those issues where it's quite tempting and it's

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<v Speaker 2>quite a simple, black and white kind of issue for

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<v Speaker 2>voters when they see, you know, a picture of food

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<v Speaker 2>and the same way that people say things like the

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<v Speaker 2>flag riferind was quite an easy issue for people get

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<v Speaker 2>their heads around, you know, like you haven' like a

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<v Speaker 2>flagg you don't. We're not talking about something like, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>end of life choice or any kind of big moral

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<v Speaker 2>ethical issue. It's being framed in terms of is this

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<v Speaker 2>food yucky or yummy? Basically, and so that has meant

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<v Speaker 2>that it's captured a lot of political attention because journalists,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, here's a photo. We don't need to go

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<v Speaker 2>and like do some kind of big investigation. This is

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<v Speaker 2>just simple photo proof.

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<v Speaker 1>Well, the eighty five million dollar annual contract was won

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<v Speaker 1>by the school lunch Collective. Now that's a partnership between

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<v Speaker 1>Compass Group and ZAID Liberal Group and Gilmore's Liberal Group

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<v Speaker 1>has actually since gone into liquidation. That's going to be

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<v Speaker 1>causing the government an enormous headache.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, it's just a saga that's ongoing, really, isn't it.

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<v Speaker 2>I think one of the things that it speaks to

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<v Speaker 2>is the idea that National campaigned on that last election

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<v Speaker 2>as being able to better manage the country and campaigned

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<v Speaker 2>against laborhood had you know, all those issues in cabinet

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<v Speaker 2>and we're going down on various indicators. So National really

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<v Speaker 2>campaign on that. And what we have here now is

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<v Speaker 2>we have David Seymore quite firmly and the Associate Education

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<v Speaker 2>Minister kind of portfolio in charge of this specific contracting,

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<v Speaker 2>in charge of this delivery of these school lunches. And

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<v Speaker 2>so what it becomes has it becomes a test so

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<v Speaker 2>to speak, of the government, and more specifically, of course,

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<v Speaker 2>the buck stops off the Education Minister at the end

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<v Speaker 2>of the day with therap A Stanford. But that's what

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<v Speaker 2>it comes down to, and we've heard kind of the

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<v Speaker 2>latest was that term two. This is all meant to

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<v Speaker 2>be sorted out by so the government have kind of

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<v Speaker 2>set a bit of a end too, the potential school

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<v Speaker 2>lunch saga, although we'll see what happens there. But basically

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<v Speaker 2>I think there's a lot of moving parts. There's a

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<v Speaker 2>story every couple of days around this, and it's quite.

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<v Speaker 1>Really well, it's an absolute shattels, a dismal failure.

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<v Speaker 3>It's the debarcle.

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<v Speaker 4>A major union is calling for Erica Stanford to be

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<v Speaker 4>put in charge. The Associated Minister has really failed our

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<v Speaker 4>children and failed to provide good, healthy, wholesome lunches. Chris

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<v Speaker 4>Hipkins giving the house are low lights reel if it

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<v Speaker 4>hasn't taken feeding children melted plastic, failing to deliver lunches

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<v Speaker 4>at all, serving up the same food thirteen days in

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<v Speaker 4>a row, or serving pork to Halal's students, what will

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<v Speaker 4>it take for him to finally step in and sort

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<v Speaker 4>out the mess that his government is made of the

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<v Speaker 4>school lunches program?

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<v Speaker 1>How much do you reckon It's damaged the coalition.

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<v Speaker 2>It's really hard to tell how much it's damaged the coalition.

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<v Speaker 2>I've been trying to find political polling on the issue

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<v Speaker 2>of school lunches. So there are a couple of separate

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<v Speaker 2>issues here. The first one is the extent to which

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<v Speaker 2>someone believes that the government should be providing school lunches.

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<v Speaker 2>And that's where I was quite surprised initially that a

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<v Speaker 2>center right government did support school lunches and did keep

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<v Speaker 2>the school lunch program going. So that was quite surprising initially,

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<v Speaker 2>especially with someone like act in government too, because they

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<v Speaker 2>could have used that as an excuse or you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I talked about the ideology behind not having school lunches

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<v Speaker 2>and pulling it initially, so there was that initial kind

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<v Speaker 2>of almost misalignment with what you would expect the government's

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<v Speaker 2>political ideology to be. So then we're kind of going

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<v Speaker 2>into starting to go into that kind of territory of Okay, well,

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<v Speaker 2>if it's not ideology, what else. Is it quite possible

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<v Speaker 2>that public opinion indicates that people want the school lunches,

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<v Speaker 2>people like the school lunchers. The only poll that I

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<v Speaker 2>could find was commissioned. It was like a Talbot Mills

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<v Speaker 2>poll prior to the change of government around whether people

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<v Speaker 2>supported an expansion of the school lunches program, and that

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<v Speaker 2>showed the majority of people did support that expansion into

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<v Speaker 2>kind of more schools back in twenty twenty five. So

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<v Speaker 2>it seems like it's a popular program overall. But we

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<v Speaker 2>haven't quite as far as I can seen any kind

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<v Speaker 2>of high quality polling on this lately. So it must

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<v Speaker 2>be one of those kind of middle voter vote winning

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<v Speaker 2>type issues. And ultimately, if that's the case, if it's

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<v Speaker 2>those kind of swing voters, those medium voters, that kind

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<v Speaker 2>of whatever, it is sort of five to ten percent

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<v Speaker 2>of people that swing between labor and national if this

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<v Speaker 2>is an issue they really care about, it makes a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of things for the government to focus on it.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I was quite surprised when the coalition came in

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<v Speaker 1>and didn't scrap it immediately. But Seymour was quite proud

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<v Speaker 1>of that one hundred and thirty million dollars annual cost

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<v Speaker 1>savings he found in his model. But do you think

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<v Speaker 1>we'd still even have free school lunches? Like you said

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<v Speaker 1>that it must be appealing to someone.

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<v Speaker 2>There has to be something in that, because yes, ideologically

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<v Speaker 2>it doesn't seem like Sema and others would be aligned

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<v Speaker 2>with this. I mean, of course, all of the other

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<v Speaker 2>thing we could do, we could step back for a

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<v Speaker 2>moment and not be skeptical about politicians. I mean, all

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<v Speaker 2>of the evidence show that you actually want to feed children,

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<v Speaker 2>especially ones from lowestof economic backgrounds, so they can best

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<v Speaker 2>concentrate in school, so they can make the most of

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<v Speaker 2>their learning, make the most of educational opportunities. So actually,

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<v Speaker 2>every single piece of evidence points to the fact that

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<v Speaker 2>kids need healthy school lunches that are delivered, you know,

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<v Speaker 2>in their lunch breaks and help fuel their learning. So

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<v Speaker 2>perhaps it is a case of politicians actually going well,

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<v Speaker 2>the evidence shows this, you know, it's a if we

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<v Speaker 2>think of the broadest social investment co PAPA, which is

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<v Speaker 2>long being part of the National Party platform, school lunches

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<v Speaker 2>has to be part of it because it helps to

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<v Speaker 2>you know, fuel education and make those kids make the

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<v Speaker 2>most of educational opportunities. So it could just be politicians

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<v Speaker 2>actually acting on evidence, which I mean we're often quite

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<v Speaker 2>syptical of well.

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<v Speaker 1>Prime Minister Christopher Laxon told News Talks and Bees Mike Hosking.

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<v Speaker 1>If parents continue to be dissatisfied with the lunches, they

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<v Speaker 1>should pack them themselves.

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<v Speaker 5>I just say to you, Yep, there's always going to

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<v Speaker 5>be people that are unhappy with school lunches.

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<v Speaker 1>And they get that.

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<v Speaker 2>And if you really are unhappy with it, for God's sake,

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<v Speaker 2>go make them my white sandwich an apple in a bag,

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<v Speaker 2>just like you and I head.

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<v Speaker 1>Is there now becoming this attitude in New Zealand that

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<v Speaker 1>parents should perhaps pack their own kids lunches, because that's

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<v Speaker 1>the Prime Minister saying that.

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<v Speaker 2>It's hard because, like I said before, there's a group

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<v Speaker 2>of people who ideologically really do not believe in the

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<v Speaker 2>state providing lunches to parents. It's quite clear that that's

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<v Speaker 2>a quite firm ideological position. So we know that that

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<v Speaker 2>idea exists in the population. We don't know how many

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<v Speaker 2>people agree howleheartedly with that, and we don't know like

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<v Speaker 2>who they vote for, although we could probably make an

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<v Speaker 2>educated gift that they probably are more on the right

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<v Speaker 2>wing side of the political spectrum, So we kind of

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<v Speaker 2>know that those people exist. One of the things, though, overall,

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<v Speaker 2>is when something becomes a meme in politic we have

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<v Speaker 2>this overall, we've seen this overall idea come up in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of the preferred Prime minister, polling and various memes,

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<v Speaker 2>various commentary that lux In is to some degree out

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<v Speaker 2>of touch. So one of the things that the government

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<v Speaker 2>and lucks them have to be really careful about here

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<v Speaker 2>is that that then doesn't go against what those medium voters,

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<v Speaker 2>what there's middle voters view as New Zealand values viewers,

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<v Speaker 2>giving people a fair goal, and that any kind of

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<v Speaker 2>rhetoric doesn't just become a meme. Like I saw a

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<v Speaker 2>lot of memes around about that Apple and there was

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<v Speaker 2>a Vigiemite Marmite and there was a lot of Marmite jokes,

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<v Speaker 2>you know that kind of thing. So you just have

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<v Speaker 2>to make sure that these things don't carry on and

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<v Speaker 2>contribute to that idea that the government is disconnected from

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<v Speaker 2>everyday New Zealanders and the economic issue.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, and to your point before on The Herald's Politics podcast,

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<v Speaker 1>the panel there suggested that the fact that lux And

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<v Speaker 1>has taken such a firm line on this suggests that

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<v Speaker 1>might be what focus groups are telling them.

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<v Speaker 5>It was quite stark, actually, the way that the government's

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<v Speaker 5>messaging on this changed almost overnight. In fact, I think

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<v Speaker 5>it was overnight we had the mar Mate and Apple's line,

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<v Speaker 5>and then every minister was using it, and that was

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<v Speaker 5>the line because I think they might have done some

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<v Speaker 5>focus grouping. Line denies that they have, but basically saying

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<v Speaker 5>it is the parent's responsibility to provide lunches, and we

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<v Speaker 5>have a wide base of people that think this, so

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<v Speaker 5>we're going to lean into that.

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<v Speaker 1>Would you agree with that because it does feel, like

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<v Speaker 1>you mentioned before, it's targeting a specific demographic of voters.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, when we look at that group of voters, has

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<v Speaker 2>been work in the New Zealand Editude of Value study

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<v Speaker 2>by Nicole Safale and others that looks at who those

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<v Speaker 2>voters are in that seed to block the election. Studies

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<v Speaker 2>looked at them as well, and they are that kind

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<v Speaker 2>of tended to be more likely to be a woman,

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<v Speaker 2>tended to be more likely to be middle aged, and

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<v Speaker 2>that kind of group of people we can already kind

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<v Speaker 2>of profile or stereotype is caring about kids lunches. So

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<v Speaker 2>that is quite possible that there are focus groups. There

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<v Speaker 2>are people out there saying that this would be that

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<v Speaker 2>school lunches are aligned in some way with key values,

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<v Speaker 2>are aligned some way with the interests of center voters,

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<v Speaker 2>And again it's a shame that we don't have more

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<v Speaker 2>political polls and we don't have more kind of research

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<v Speaker 2>and public opinion work on this, because every single data

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<v Speaker 2>point that we have does indicate that this might be

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<v Speaker 2>something that is focus group driven as public opinion driven,

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<v Speaker 2>and ultimately it does start to over time contribute to

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<v Speaker 2>people's idea about the government, about their competency, about their decisiveness,

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<v Speaker 2>and about their values.

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<v Speaker 1>Have school lunches turned into an ideological issue because there's

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<v Speaker 1>definitely a large portion of the population who feels that

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<v Speaker 1>the bare minimum of having a child is being able

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<v Speaker 1>to feed them every day. Right. But on the other side,

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<v Speaker 1>we know that poverty is a massive issue in this country,

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<v Speaker 1>and these lunches perhaps are freeing up those families struggling

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<v Speaker 1>to make ends meet to put their money elsewhere. So

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<v Speaker 1>is this just going to be an issue that causes

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<v Speaker 1>controversy no matter who's running the country.

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<v Speaker 2>Ultimately, we've seen, especially since the Fourth Labor Government, over

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<v Speaker 2>this last sort of what is it thirty forty years,

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<v Speaker 2>we've seen a lot of discussion over the state's role

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<v Speaker 2>in welfare and the state's role providing for children versus

0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:02.600
<v Speaker 2>the responsibility of individual parents of parents of fauna or

0:12:02.640 --> 0:12:05.400
<v Speaker 2>families of communities and so on and so forth. So

0:12:05.480 --> 0:12:07.520
<v Speaker 2>this is a repeated discussion that we had in New

0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:10.280
<v Speaker 2>Zealand politics going back to at least the nineteen nineties,

0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:12.520
<v Speaker 2>and actually you can kind of see it even earlier

0:12:12.520 --> 0:12:14.960
<v Speaker 2>than that, and things like the family benefit in the

0:12:15.000 --> 0:12:17.040
<v Speaker 2>post World War two period. So it's one of those

0:12:17.040 --> 0:12:19.880
<v Speaker 2>debates that we've long had in New Zealand politics and

0:12:19.920 --> 0:12:22.240
<v Speaker 2>that we can expect every few years for this debate

0:12:22.280 --> 0:12:24.760
<v Speaker 2>to evolve and change in a different way about the

0:12:24.840 --> 0:12:27.000
<v Speaker 2>role of parents and the role of things like welfare

0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:29.400
<v Speaker 2>and the role of the state. It had seemed when

0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.640
<v Speaker 2>National and when this government came in that school lunches

0:12:32.679 --> 0:12:35.000
<v Speaker 2>were there to stay. I guess now it does remain

0:12:35.040 --> 0:12:37.280
<v Speaker 2>to be seen as to whether the government will just

0:12:37.440 --> 0:12:39.480
<v Speaker 2>in them, just hear the band aid off and take

0:12:39.520 --> 0:12:42.520
<v Speaker 2>any public opinion hit whether they will continue this online.

0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:45.720
<v Speaker 2>But ultimately school lunches are just a new version of

0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:47.959
<v Speaker 2>that kind of role of the state and the role

0:12:48.000 --> 0:12:51.000
<v Speaker 2>of welfare type political debates that we've been having for decades.

0:12:51.240 --> 0:12:53.800
<v Speaker 1>David Seymour was on this podcast last year and talked

0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:57.360
<v Speaker 1>about how he agrees with providing school lunches in theory

0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.360
<v Speaker 1>because it's good for the economy.

0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:03.359
<v Speaker 3>Would it be smart for New Zealand as a country

0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:05.640
<v Speaker 3>to do what they do, and say the UK or

0:13:05.679 --> 0:13:08.960
<v Speaker 3>partner of America where actually the kids lunch making is

0:13:09.040 --> 0:13:11.440
<v Speaker 3>done by a company that delivers it to the school,

0:13:11.720 --> 0:13:14.800
<v Speaker 3>and then parents who have the ability to pay, they pay.

0:13:15.080 --> 0:13:18.800
<v Speaker 3>Parents who don't they get it subsidized by the government.

0:13:19.160 --> 0:13:22.960
<v Speaker 3>Might be better than millions of parents every morning getting

0:13:23.000 --> 0:13:26.959
<v Speaker 3>up and spending a substantial amount of time making the

0:13:27.040 --> 0:13:29.400
<v Speaker 3>lunch when they could be out being an accountant or

0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:33.800
<v Speaker 3>working in a pharmacy, or doing whatever it is that

0:13:34.160 --> 0:13:35.000
<v Speaker 3>those parents do.

0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:37.400
<v Speaker 1>Would you agree with that?

0:13:37.679 --> 0:13:39.880
<v Speaker 2>This is a hard one. So when we go back

0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:43.400
<v Speaker 2>to something like what would it be the purpose or

0:13:43.440 --> 0:13:46.160
<v Speaker 2>the point of having school lunches? One of the things,

0:13:46.240 --> 0:13:48.000
<v Speaker 2>of course, I'm an academic, so I'm going to go

0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:50.439
<v Speaker 2>back to what is the academic evidence here, And one

0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:54.640
<v Speaker 2>of the things that colleagues in nutrition and education have

0:13:54.760 --> 0:13:58.120
<v Speaker 2>been saying over and over again is that, yes, probably

0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:00.360
<v Speaker 2>giving school lunches will be good for the economy. There's

0:14:00.400 --> 0:14:03.520
<v Speaker 2>definitely an argument there because kids need to be fed

0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:05.240
<v Speaker 2>to be able to, you know, like actually make the

0:14:05.280 --> 0:14:08.439
<v Speaker 2>most of educational opportunities and learn things, and then they

0:14:08.480 --> 0:14:11.240
<v Speaker 2>go on to be better workers, better educated, you know,

0:14:11.280 --> 0:14:13.280
<v Speaker 2>go into professions and so on and so forth. So

0:14:13.280 --> 0:14:17.080
<v Speaker 2>there's definitely that argument there. The more time in the

0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:20.240
<v Speaker 2>Morning's argument, I'm not I mean, it's probably one of

0:14:20.280 --> 0:14:23.040
<v Speaker 2>those interesting kind of examples. Again, can't speak to that,

0:14:23.160 --> 0:14:26.280
<v Speaker 2>but overall, the body of evidence shows that long term,

0:14:26.360 --> 0:14:28.640
<v Speaker 2>at least there's an argument that they would be better

0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:29.240
<v Speaker 2>for the economy.

0:14:29.320 --> 0:14:32.280
<v Speaker 1>Yes, with the backlash we're seeing over the kids not

0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:35.320
<v Speaker 1>eating the food and then being ungrateful, this, that and

0:14:35.360 --> 0:14:37.360
<v Speaker 1>the other, it looking awful. I mean, I've seen some

0:14:37.400 --> 0:14:39.400
<v Speaker 1>of those pictures. I would eat some of them, but

0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:42.200
<v Speaker 1>I wouldn't eat others. Is there a real chance the

0:14:42.240 --> 0:14:45.440
<v Speaker 1>coalition could just end the school lunch program altogether? I mean,

0:14:45.520 --> 0:14:47.080
<v Speaker 1>is it really going to be that much of a

0:14:47.680 --> 0:14:49.040
<v Speaker 1>big election issue?

0:14:49.240 --> 0:14:52.080
<v Speaker 2>Oh see, one of the things, the school lunch program

0:14:52.120 --> 0:14:55.440
<v Speaker 2>now has continued on and going on and on and on.

0:14:55.560 --> 0:14:57.320
<v Speaker 2>And this is the thing. Remember, we have to go

0:14:57.440 --> 0:14:59.960
<v Speaker 2>back to the last leave of government. Here we build

0:15:00.200 --> 0:15:02.480
<v Speaker 2>and how many houses they were going to build, went

0:15:02.560 --> 0:15:05.560
<v Speaker 2>on and on and on, and to some degree, obviously

0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:09.680
<v Speaker 2>crises interrupted that discourse. But we have to look at

0:15:09.720 --> 0:15:13.560
<v Speaker 2>governments and like they will have these issues that go

0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.840
<v Speaker 2>on and on and on, and for National, for the government,

0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:19.560
<v Speaker 2>it stands. I think they will want to try to

0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:22.160
<v Speaker 2>end at least the discourse, and there's only a certain

0:15:22.200 --> 0:15:24.440
<v Speaker 2>ways that they can do that. I have a distracting

0:15:24.680 --> 0:15:28.360
<v Speaker 2>based on another issue. Either fixing the school lunch program

0:15:28.560 --> 0:15:30.640
<v Speaker 2>is one way to do it, or getting rid of it.

0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:32.320
<v Speaker 2>I mean, they're going to have to make some kind

0:15:32.320 --> 0:15:34.800
<v Speaker 2>of decision because otherwise this will go on and on.

0:15:35.120 --> 0:15:37.560
<v Speaker 2>People will get kind of bored of it. It will

0:15:37.600 --> 0:15:39.560
<v Speaker 2>become a joke, it will become a meme, and it

0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:41.760
<v Speaker 2>will become something that people can point to as the

0:15:41.760 --> 0:15:44.640
<v Speaker 2>failure of the government. And especially on your first term,

0:15:44.680 --> 0:15:47.160
<v Speaker 2>you want to limit the failures that people can point to.

0:15:47.560 --> 0:15:50.360
<v Speaker 2>You want to limit in the twenty twenty sixth election

0:15:50.440 --> 0:15:53.000
<v Speaker 2>the extent to which Hipkins or Labor leader at the

0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:56.600
<v Speaker 2>time can point at National and say, well, you failed

0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.080
<v Speaker 2>on the school lunches. You couldn't even manage that program.

0:15:59.440 --> 0:16:02.720
<v Speaker 2>So it's going to be a continuing issue, and I

0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:05.080
<v Speaker 2>think we will see some kind of ending of it,

0:16:05.640 --> 0:16:08.960
<v Speaker 2>whether it is trying to distract everyone or ending the

0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:09.920
<v Speaker 2>school lunch program.

0:16:10.240 --> 0:16:11.920
<v Speaker 1>What do you reckon is the most likely because they're

0:16:11.920 --> 0:16:13.320
<v Speaker 1>not going to be spending any more money to make

0:16:13.320 --> 0:16:13.920
<v Speaker 1>it any better.

0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Oh, it's a struggle, there isn't it. I wouldn't be

0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:19.680
<v Speaker 2>surprised if they ended it. It aligns with the broader ideology.

0:16:19.800 --> 0:16:22.040
<v Speaker 2>And we're still quite a way away up from the election.

0:16:22.360 --> 0:16:25.400
<v Speaker 2>So there's certain certain kind of hits that you need

0:16:25.440 --> 0:16:27.640
<v Speaker 2>to take in government with certain issues that you need

0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:30.360
<v Speaker 2>to just sweep under the rug or lose or not

0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:33.280
<v Speaker 2>succeed on, and this might be one of them for

0:16:33.400 --> 0:16:36.200
<v Speaker 2>National But yeah, it remains to be seen, and it's

0:16:36.240 --> 0:16:38.560
<v Speaker 2>also remains to be seen the extent to which it

0:16:38.600 --> 0:16:41.520
<v Speaker 2>would blowback on Seymour. We saw an interview on Q

0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:43.560
<v Speaker 2>and A not long ago of Erica Stanford in the

0:16:43.640 --> 0:16:46.680
<v Speaker 2>role as Education Minister, and she kind of did say, well,

0:16:46.800 --> 0:16:49.800
<v Speaker 2>it's Seymour's area at Seymour's area. Yeah. The extent to

0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:54.000
<v Speaker 2>which it reflects back on Seymour versus other parts of

0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:56.400
<v Speaker 2>the coalition again remains to be seen.

0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:58.920
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for joining us, Lara Da.

0:16:59.040 --> 0:16:59.320
<v Speaker 2>Thank you.

0:17:03.520 --> 0:17:06.600
<v Speaker 1>That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You

0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:10.440
<v Speaker 1>can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage

0:17:10.480 --> 0:17:14.520
<v Speaker 1>at enzdherld dot co, dot MZ. The Front Page is

0:17:14.560 --> 0:17:18.280
<v Speaker 1>produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin, who is also

0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:23.080
<v Speaker 1>a sound engineer. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to the Front

0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:26.719
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0:17:26.800 --> 0:17:30.400
<v Speaker 1>tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.