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Speaker 1: If you want some numbers around the departure from our

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Speaker 1: shows to Australia, have a look at the nurses and

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Speaker 1: the year to June twelve thousand use the trans Tasman

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Speaker 1: pathway to gain registration across the ditch. That's almost a

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Speaker 1: fifty percent increase on the year before. Nurses Organization President

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Speaker 1: Kerrie Niokho's with us Kerry morning.

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Speaker 2: To you, Good morning.

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Speaker 1: This registration business is this you register and go or

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Speaker 1: your register in might go.

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Speaker 2: You register and might go.

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Speaker 1: So it doesn't mean you are going. So we haven't

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Speaker 1: actually lost that many. It's just we could lose that many.

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Speaker 2: That's how many have expressed their interest exactly. But from

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Speaker 2: anecdotally what we're hearing a.

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Speaker 1: Lot are going and do they go for lifestyle, do

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Speaker 1: they go for money, what do they go for?

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Speaker 2: They go for better working conditions, they go for job opportunities.

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Speaker 2: You'll know that less than half of the nurses that

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Speaker 2: graduated this year got jobs, so a lot of them

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Speaker 2: are just going straight over to get jobs in Australia.

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Speaker 1: If and this is not a new conversation, if we

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Speaker 1: could do something material about it, what would we do?

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Speaker 2: Literally, Yeah, so we've got to get a workforce strategy

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Speaker 2: in place. First of all, we've got to introduce safe

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Speaker 2: staffing ratios. Secondly, and we've got to ensure that there's

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Speaker 2: budget to accommodate that. It's not that we are over

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Speaker 2: perhaps this over abundance of nursing workforce in the hospitals.

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Speaker 2: Already it's understaffed. So nurses are choosing to make the

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Speaker 2: decision to go somewhere where they've got introduced safe staffing

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Speaker 2: ratios in Australia, better working conditions.

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Speaker 1: Better pay, right, so they can say pay a side,

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Speaker 1: but they can say, in terms of staffing ratio, have

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Speaker 1: a look at Australia, it's x to one whatever the

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Speaker 1: case may be. That's what we need here, and we

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Speaker 1: are short of that, and we can say that and improve that.

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Speaker 1: Is that correct?

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Speaker 2: That's correct?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So then once you fix that part, then it's

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Speaker 1: the money as well.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. All that comes with working is it?

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Speaker 1: Is it an ever? Is a vicious cycle? Or everything

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Speaker 1: I read is every public health system in the world,

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Speaker 1: basically in the Western world, the short of nurses.

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Speaker 2: That's correct, absolutely correct. The problem that we've got here

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Speaker 2: is the introduction of a workforce strategy or a plan

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Speaker 2: last year from the government showed that actually this be

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Speaker 2: going to normalize this understaffing, which isn't based on the

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Speaker 2: changes in the conditions of patients or the acuity of patients.

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Speaker 2: And that's the problem. When you've got the budget driving

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Speaker 2: the incentivized how many nurses you put or how many

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Speaker 2: nurss you recruit. That's the wrong way around, especially when

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Speaker 2: we're supposed to be delivering a patient center delivery of

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Speaker 2: care and yet we're driving recruitments based on how much

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Speaker 2: budget we've got allocated.

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Speaker 1: Does simm and Brown get that or is he just

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Speaker 1: of the I don't have any money, what do you

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Speaker 1: expect me to do? Mindset?

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Speaker 2: Well, unfortunately we're hearing a lot of I don't have

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Speaker 2: any money and this is the budget, so work within

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Speaker 2: your means. That is the wrong way around for health

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Speaker 2: professionals to be working.

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Speaker 1: But given we don't have any money, what are you

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Speaker 1: expecting them to do?

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Speaker 2: There's got to be a reassignment of where the money

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Speaker 2: is invested. Certainly, privatization of care isn't the right way

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Speaker 2: when we want to increase access of services to patients. Certainly,

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Speaker 2: the currently what we're hearing and what we're seeing in

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Speaker 2: the news is that patients aren't getting the quality of care.

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Speaker 2: So we've got to change that around and pre op

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Speaker 2: prioritize what is important to New Zealanders. It's access to

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Speaker 2: timely appropriate care. That's got to be the priority. And

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Speaker 2: where our the money spent after that is something that's

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Speaker 2: left up to the minister.

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Speaker 1: Kerry appreciate it. Kerri Nioko, who's the Nurses Organization president.

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Speaker 1: Mike just came out of Wakata Hospital after having an

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Speaker 1: OP may I say the care was first class, all star,

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Speaker 1: from cleanest to surgeons bent out of backwards to make

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Speaker 1: my stay excellent legal So it's not all bad news,

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Speaker 1: is it.

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Speaker 2: For more from the mic Asking Breakfast, listen live to

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Speaker 2: news talks that'd be from six am weekdays, or follow

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Speaker 2: the podcast on iHeartRadio.