1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,560 Speaker 1: The government has today announced it's adding one point two 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:05,240 Speaker 1: million dollars to the Mayoral Relief Fund to help with 3 00:00:05,240 --> 00:00:08,560 Speaker 1: immediate relief following last week's bad weather. The community is affected, 4 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 1: though have obviously been here before, and many are only 5 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:14,600 Speaker 1: just recovering from Cyclone Gabrielle less than three years ago, 6 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:16,759 Speaker 1: which prompts the question, of course, what do we need 7 00:00:16,800 --> 00:00:18,320 Speaker 1: to do and what do we need to do first 8 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,960 Speaker 1: to adapt to these changing weather patterns. Doctor Judy Lawrence 9 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 1: is a climate adaptation expertter with US Now. Hi, Jerdy, 10 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: good evening, Right, So what's the priority? If you could 11 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,440 Speaker 1: do one thing first in order to get ready and 12 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:32,320 Speaker 1: adapt to it to what's going on, what would it be. 13 00:00:34,159 --> 00:00:39,479 Speaker 2: I would get an adaptation plan done smartly and the 14 00:00:39,479 --> 00:00:43,480 Speaker 2: empowerment legislation to do that urgently, and I would link 15 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 2: it up with the Emergency Management Bill and the Planning 16 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,239 Speaker 2: Bill and the Climate Change Response Act. Right. 17 00:00:49,280 --> 00:00:51,680 Speaker 1: So that is the government's working on all of that paperwork. 18 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,240 Speaker 1: But if you could do something practically out there in 19 00:00:54,280 --> 00:00:57,000 Speaker 1: the world, like lift a road or mover house or whatever, 20 00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 1: what would it be. 21 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 2: Well, I don't think it's quite that's simple. Heather. We've 22 00:01:03,040 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 2: had we have to break the cycle of event recovery, 23 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:12,600 Speaker 2: report inquiry and then a long lead time before things happen. 24 00:01:13,120 --> 00:01:16,120 Speaker 2: What we need is action. Most of the local authorities 25 00:01:16,160 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 2: in these areas already have adaptation plans, albeit nascent, but 26 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:29,440 Speaker 2: could be quickly put together to identify where the key 27 00:01:29,959 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 2: areas are for stopping further development. That would be a 28 00:01:34,360 --> 00:01:37,679 Speaker 2: number one thing. Okay, then we've got the legacy effect, 29 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,679 Speaker 2: which is the things that are places and things and 30 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 2: land users and assets that are in very risky places, 31 00:01:45,280 --> 00:01:48,800 Speaker 2: and these can be identified quickly. The regional councils and 32 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:52,240 Speaker 2: most of these areas know where these are now, and 33 00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: they need the mandate quickly and they need to get 34 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,240 Speaker 2: on with it right now. They could act now, and 35 00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:02,880 Speaker 2: some of them, of course are doing that, and the 36 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 2: government has assisted that through flood control and flood protection 37 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,919 Speaker 2: and so on. But protection isn't going to save us 38 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:15,400 Speaker 2: from the increasing frequency, intensity of rainfall and also the 39 00:02:15,720 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 2: ongoing rise in sea level, so our coastal areas are 40 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:22,720 Speaker 2: at risk as well. So it is a complicated issue, 41 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:28,200 Speaker 2: but we need a comprehensive plan to address those priority areas. 42 00:02:28,560 --> 00:02:32,280 Speaker 2: Government has signaled it's doing it. Haven't seen the legislation yet, 43 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,640 Speaker 2: but it really needs to be cranked up urgently because 44 00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:40,320 Speaker 2: the transition into moving to adaptation means that we're not 45 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:46,440 Speaker 2: constantly recycling reports, not acting on them in a comprehensive way. 46 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,480 Speaker 2: Little bits get done, it's all fragmented. 47 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: Judy, I suspect that once people see the bill, I 48 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: mean it's like it is enormous. It's billions and millions 49 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,680 Speaker 1: and millions and millions of dollars to actually adapt properly. 50 00:02:57,720 --> 00:02:59,600 Speaker 1: Once people see the bill, I think that they will 51 00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: just about and all hope of adapting. 52 00:03:01,240 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 2: Right. 53 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,000 Speaker 1: So, how much of the adaptation has to fall on 54 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:08,560 Speaker 1: the government or authorities versus private property owners? 55 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,640 Speaker 2: Well, I think it's a combination of both. And I 56 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: think the government has to provide the framework. It has 57 00:03:15,639 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 2: to provide financial instruments that can enable action to be 58 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 2: taken at local levels without complicated administrative work. To do 59 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,840 Speaker 2: that has to be kept simple. Some of that has 60 00:03:31,880 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 2: already been signaled. But it's all about at the moment, 61 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 2: it's all about recovery, and we have to move from 62 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:41,120 Speaker 2: recovery into planning for adaptation, but not just planning, acting 63 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,800 Speaker 2: on the plans. And that's why I come back to 64 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:46,680 Speaker 2: this that some of these local authorities have plans. Now 65 00:03:47,240 --> 00:03:50,080 Speaker 2: there needs to be some acting on them and funding 66 00:03:50,120 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 2: to support that acting on them, and mandate to have 67 00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 2: give them confidence that they can get on with the job. 68 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:02,360 Speaker 2: Because we're in at the moment at a hiatus. The 69 00:04:02,440 --> 00:04:06,160 Speaker 2: rain will continue to fall in intense bursts, and the 70 00:04:06,200 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 2: sea will continue to rise, and we're going to continue 71 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,440 Speaker 2: to have this problem and it goes around in circles 72 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 2: and it has been for thirty forty years known a 73 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 2: lot of this stuff. 74 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:18,800 Speaker 1: Are there roads or communities that you would just abandon 75 00:04:18,839 --> 00:04:21,360 Speaker 1: all together and so you just can't have a road 76 00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,080 Speaker 1: there and you just can't live there anymore. 77 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 2: Well, I think that we may come to that, and 78 00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: I think some of the councils have started to address 79 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: that issue. I can think of a number of areas 80 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 2: in Nilson and Canterbury and the way Rappa where there 81 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:45,119 Speaker 2: are small communities dependent on roads and I think long 82 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:48,839 Speaker 2: term those or even short terms, some of those have 83 00:04:48,960 --> 00:04:52,920 Speaker 2: to think about what the options are and what the 84 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 2: choices are that they can make. They can't make them 85 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 2: as individuals, they have to make them as a community 86 00:04:58,400 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 2: and they have to be supported by. 87 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 1: And do you think insurance is actually going to do 88 00:05:02,480 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: a lot of the heavy lifting for us here and 89 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,359 Speaker 1: force us to change because because I mean, at some 90 00:05:07,440 --> 00:05:10,120 Speaker 1: point there will be some houses that will be uninsurable 91 00:05:10,600 --> 00:05:12,960 Speaker 1: and so simply it will force the people to So 92 00:05:13,040 --> 00:05:15,159 Speaker 1: will it be insurance that actually does that will be 93 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:17,600 Speaker 1: the market that makes these decisions for us? 94 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,960 Speaker 2: Well, I think that will be too slow. I think 95 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 2: there's a tendency in New Zealand to spread the risks. 96 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 2: The insurance companies don't want to have unaffordable insurance. They 97 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:32,040 Speaker 2: don't they well, some of them do, some of them don't. 98 00:05:32,320 --> 00:05:35,719 Speaker 2: And I think I think long term that will happen. 99 00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:37,520 Speaker 2: I don't think it will be fast enough. This is 100 00:05:37,520 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 2: the problem. What's happening with the climate is this is 101 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:45,560 Speaker 2: all speeding up. We've worn our oceans with increased the 102 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,080 Speaker 2: amount of moisture in the atmosphere, and it rains out 103 00:05:48,640 --> 00:05:52,320 Speaker 2: and it is more intense and all frequent and so 104 00:05:52,960 --> 00:05:57,440 Speaker 2: and our land gets sodden and it slips. We've known that, 105 00:05:57,760 --> 00:06:01,800 Speaker 2: we've had guidance on it for decades and so to me, 106 00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:07,720 Speaker 2: the critical bit that's missing is this mandate, coordinated response 107 00:06:07,800 --> 00:06:10,640 Speaker 2: between central and local government, the funding to deal with 108 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:16,640 Speaker 2: it and the will to take some hard decisions, but 109 00:06:16,800 --> 00:06:19,960 Speaker 2: to be fair to people and to be fair to communities. 110 00:06:20,120 --> 00:06:21,960 Speaker 2: I mean some of some of the some of what's 111 00:06:21,960 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 2: happening up the East Coast, for example, is being initiated 112 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:28,239 Speaker 2: by the Milord communities and it's fantastic what they're doing, 113 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 2: and now the government has agreed to support some of that. 114 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:34,840 Speaker 2: From what they have done to date, and I think 115 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:36,719 Speaker 2: we can learn from some of that. It can be 116 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:39,920 Speaker 2: done in communities. It can't be done by individuals. The 117 00:06:39,960 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 2: market is not fast enough and it requires a determinative 118 00:06:46,360 --> 00:06:49,760 Speaker 2: approach that looking at people at the same time. 119 00:06:49,839 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, I really appreciate your time, thanks so much for 120 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: talking us through it. As doctor Judy Lawrence, climate adaptation 121 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: expert at the Victoria University of Wellington. For more from 122 00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: Heather Duplessy Allen Drive, listen Live News Talk zeb from 123 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:04,800 Speaker 1: four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.