1 00:00:06,707 --> 00:00:10,427 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Fyne 2 00:00:10,747 --> 00:00:11,907 Speaker 1: from News Talks EDB. 3 00:00:12,827 --> 00:00:16,267 Speaker 2: An enormous pleasure to welcome into Weekends Sport across New Zealand. 4 00:00:16,747 --> 00:00:21,067 Speaker 2: RF you CEO Bill Sweeney, who's here with the England 5 00:00:21,147 --> 00:00:23,667 Speaker 2: rugby team on their tour of New Zealand. Bill, great 6 00:00:23,667 --> 00:00:26,187 Speaker 2: to have the chance to chat to you on News Talks, 7 00:00:26,227 --> 00:00:28,827 Speaker 2: he'd be, how are you enjoying your time in New Zealand. 8 00:00:29,467 --> 00:00:31,387 Speaker 3: It's been fantastic. It's great to see you the other 9 00:00:31,467 --> 00:00:34,067 Speaker 3: day in Dunedin down there as well, so obviously the 10 00:00:34,107 --> 00:00:35,787 Speaker 3: lead up in the build up to that test was good. 11 00:00:36,947 --> 00:00:39,027 Speaker 3: You're a mad rugby loving nation, so I've had the 12 00:00:39,107 --> 00:00:41,267 Speaker 3: chance to drop into a few rugby clubs during the 13 00:00:41,267 --> 00:00:43,427 Speaker 3: trip as well. It's been a really, really good tour. 14 00:00:43,867 --> 00:00:46,187 Speaker 2: I want to get an indication from you about, you know, 15 00:00:46,227 --> 00:00:49,387 Speaker 2: the landscape that you work within in the Northern Hemisphere 16 00:00:49,427 --> 00:00:52,827 Speaker 2: rugby wise, in broad terms, how would you describe the 17 00:00:52,827 --> 00:00:55,187 Speaker 2: current state of rugby in the Northern Hemisphere and the 18 00:00:55,227 --> 00:00:56,587 Speaker 2: big challenges that you're facing. 19 00:00:56,627 --> 00:00:58,067 Speaker 3: Yeah, I'd say we're in a bit of a sort 20 00:00:58,107 --> 00:01:00,587 Speaker 3: of recovery mode coming out of COVID. I mean, COVID 21 00:01:00,627 --> 00:01:02,307 Speaker 3: hit all of us and you guys know that down 22 00:01:02,347 --> 00:01:04,907 Speaker 3: here as well, but it hit our premiership club's pretty 23 00:01:04,907 --> 00:01:07,947 Speaker 3: hard and we went through a really painful period where 24 00:01:07,947 --> 00:01:11,067 Speaker 3: three of them became insolvent with Wass, Worcester and London 25 00:01:11,107 --> 00:01:14,387 Speaker 3: Irish and that was a really painful period. And those 26 00:01:14,427 --> 00:01:16,827 Speaker 3: three had particular stresses in their business models, so they're 27 00:01:16,827 --> 00:01:18,547 Speaker 3: a bit more vulnerable perhaps than some of the others. 28 00:01:19,307 --> 00:01:20,947 Speaker 3: But that was a major shakeup in terms of how 29 00:01:20,947 --> 00:01:23,667 Speaker 3: do we govern the game. So we're probably, i'd say 30 00:01:23,667 --> 00:01:26,067 Speaker 3: on the professional league side, we're probably in a bit 31 00:01:26,107 --> 00:01:28,747 Speaker 3: of a recovery period. It's been a great season so 32 00:01:28,787 --> 00:01:31,747 Speaker 3: attendance as are backup. We had an amazing final with 33 00:01:31,827 --> 00:01:34,907 Speaker 3: Northampton and Bath. Twickenham was full eighty two thousand for 34 00:01:34,907 --> 00:01:37,947 Speaker 3: a final there was incredible. So we're seeing some real 35 00:01:37,987 --> 00:01:40,187 Speaker 3: sort of signs of recovery. And then also i think 36 00:01:40,187 --> 00:01:42,307 Speaker 3: from the community side, because you can't, you know, you've 37 00:01:42,307 --> 00:01:44,947 Speaker 3: got to link the two as well. It's really gratifying 38 00:01:44,947 --> 00:01:47,467 Speaker 3: now to see our community participation numbers getting back up 39 00:01:47,467 --> 00:01:49,587 Speaker 3: to where they were pre COVID and we've actually had 40 00:01:49,627 --> 00:01:51,387 Speaker 3: our best year i think in ten years in terms 41 00:01:51,387 --> 00:01:54,547 Speaker 3: of kids coming into the game. So on balance for 42 00:01:54,627 --> 00:01:57,387 Speaker 3: that then I'd say it is difficult time, tough times, 43 00:01:57,427 --> 00:01:58,747 Speaker 3: but we feel run our way back. 44 00:01:59,267 --> 00:02:02,347 Speaker 2: How did you deal with the challenges of the COVID period, 45 00:02:02,587 --> 00:02:05,147 Speaker 2: the fallout afterwards, that sort of thing that there must 46 00:02:05,147 --> 00:02:06,947 Speaker 2: have been a very challenging time well for the whole 47 00:02:06,987 --> 00:02:10,707 Speaker 2: Rugby ecosystem. So what were the main strategies for dealing 48 00:02:10,787 --> 00:02:11,107 Speaker 2: with there. 49 00:02:11,147 --> 00:02:13,667 Speaker 3: I think the period post COVID was the hardest because 50 00:02:13,787 --> 00:02:15,987 Speaker 3: when you're in a crisis like that, everybody pulls together. 51 00:02:16,147 --> 00:02:18,307 Speaker 3: So government were pretty good to us and we work 52 00:02:18,387 --> 00:02:21,067 Speaker 3: really closely with them, and you go into crisis mode 53 00:02:21,107 --> 00:02:22,707 Speaker 3: and you have all sorts of little sort of working 54 00:02:22,707 --> 00:02:24,347 Speaker 3: groups set up to get yourselves through it, and everyone 55 00:02:24,347 --> 00:02:27,907 Speaker 3: pulls together. But then coming out of COVID, people's people's 56 00:02:27,987 --> 00:02:30,707 Speaker 3: memories go quickly and they just think we're back to normal. 57 00:02:30,987 --> 00:02:33,307 Speaker 3: But we've had massive cost increases coming out of that. 58 00:02:33,787 --> 00:02:36,307 Speaker 3: Inflation is really high in the North, so we have 59 00:02:36,347 --> 00:02:38,907 Speaker 3: all the pressures and challenges of coming out of COVID, 60 00:02:39,187 --> 00:02:41,307 Speaker 3: still trying to get the revenue side up to speed, 61 00:02:41,307 --> 00:02:44,027 Speaker 3: but you've got these increased costs, so we've just had 62 00:02:44,067 --> 00:02:46,387 Speaker 3: to really knuckle down and focus and get it done. 63 00:02:46,387 --> 00:02:48,547 Speaker 3: But I think we're through the worst of it now in. 64 00:02:48,587 --> 00:02:51,547 Speaker 2: Terms of how you judge your performance. So you know, 65 00:02:51,587 --> 00:02:53,147 Speaker 2: here in New Zealand, obviously we love it when the 66 00:02:53,147 --> 00:02:55,747 Speaker 2: All Blacks were and often New Zealand rugby are quite 67 00:02:55,787 --> 00:02:59,227 Speaker 2: too the All Blacks. Is it similar in England? How 68 00:02:59,307 --> 00:03:02,427 Speaker 2: key a metric are is the success of your elite sides? 69 00:03:02,547 --> 00:03:05,627 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really important. You know, winning matters and the 70 00:03:05,667 --> 00:03:07,507 Speaker 3: world's a different place when you're winning. You know, we 71 00:03:07,547 --> 00:03:10,387 Speaker 3: went through we went through a couple of difficult years 72 00:03:11,107 --> 00:03:12,907 Speaker 3: at the end of Eddie's tenure there and we had 73 00:03:12,987 --> 00:03:15,827 Speaker 3: a couple of tough Six Nations championships, coming in fourth 74 00:03:15,907 --> 00:03:20,147 Speaker 3: and fifth, and it definitely it changes the mood and everything. 75 00:03:20,187 --> 00:03:22,947 Speaker 3: It changes the conversation you're having with your business partners, 76 00:03:22,947 --> 00:03:25,747 Speaker 3: it changes the conversations you're having with the community game. 77 00:03:26,307 --> 00:03:28,307 Speaker 3: Nobody likes to see you struggling. They all expect you 78 00:03:28,307 --> 00:03:31,107 Speaker 3: to do much better. And then Steve's come in and 79 00:03:31,507 --> 00:03:33,347 Speaker 3: we had we had a soso start to the last 80 00:03:33,387 --> 00:03:35,827 Speaker 3: Six Nations but finished really strongly and then to get 81 00:03:35,827 --> 00:03:38,227 Speaker 3: onto this tour and see us playing a really exciting 82 00:03:38,507 --> 00:03:40,947 Speaker 3: brand of rugby which is maybe different than people normally 83 00:03:40,947 --> 00:03:43,587 Speaker 3: expect from us. There's a real buzz around the country 84 00:03:43,627 --> 00:03:46,667 Speaker 3: now about this squad and Steve and the coaching team with. 85 00:03:46,787 --> 00:03:50,467 Speaker 2: Sport is obviously you know, I guess historically you're going 86 00:03:50,547 --> 00:03:52,987 Speaker 2: to win fifty percent and lose fifty percent or thereabouts 87 00:03:53,067 --> 00:03:56,267 Speaker 2: when you're dealing with commercial partners, you know, how do 88 00:03:56,307 --> 00:03:59,147 Speaker 2: you make sure that that your commercial partnerships are not 89 00:03:59,307 --> 00:04:01,587 Speaker 2: entirely dictated by whether the team's wunning or not. 90 00:04:02,027 --> 00:04:03,947 Speaker 3: I think we're quite fortunate, you know that the partners 91 00:04:03,947 --> 00:04:05,427 Speaker 3: we've gone and mean, look at O two, they've been 92 00:04:05,427 --> 00:04:07,387 Speaker 3: with us for over thirty years. Yeah, that's a really 93 00:04:07,467 --> 00:04:11,267 Speaker 3: long standing relationship. And I'd say all the commercial partners 94 00:04:11,267 --> 00:04:12,907 Speaker 3: that we work with, they understand the game, and they 95 00:04:12,947 --> 00:04:15,507 Speaker 3: understand the pressures of high performance sport, and they know 96 00:04:15,627 --> 00:04:17,627 Speaker 3: you're not going to have you know, can be winninge 97 00:04:17,667 --> 00:04:19,467 Speaker 3: hundred percent of the time. So if you're winning seventy 98 00:04:19,507 --> 00:04:22,507 Speaker 3: seventy five percent, that's a pretty pretty good win ratio. 99 00:04:22,747 --> 00:04:24,827 Speaker 3: I think from their perspective, they just want to they 100 00:04:24,827 --> 00:04:26,627 Speaker 3: want to be comfortable you're doing all the right things 101 00:04:26,667 --> 00:04:28,707 Speaker 3: to head in the right direction, whether it's the women's 102 00:04:28,787 --> 00:04:32,027 Speaker 3: game or the men's game, and so we're pretty transparent 103 00:04:32,067 --> 00:04:34,107 Speaker 3: and telling them about our plans and where we're heading towards. 104 00:04:34,147 --> 00:04:35,747 Speaker 3: I think as long as they feel you've got things 105 00:04:35,827 --> 00:04:38,067 Speaker 3: under control, they're pretty supportive. 106 00:04:38,347 --> 00:04:41,027 Speaker 2: In terms of selection for the England rugby team, it's 107 00:04:41,387 --> 00:04:43,427 Speaker 2: identical to here in New Zealand. You must be playing 108 00:04:43,467 --> 00:04:45,507 Speaker 2: in Super Rugby to be eligible for the All Blacks 109 00:04:45,507 --> 00:04:47,387 Speaker 2: for England. Got to be playing in England to play 110 00:04:47,507 --> 00:04:50,707 Speaker 2: for England. What's the main rationale for that? Is it 111 00:04:50,707 --> 00:04:52,187 Speaker 2: similar to what we head down here. 112 00:04:52,987 --> 00:04:55,107 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a controversial one with a lot of people. 113 00:04:55,227 --> 00:04:57,147 Speaker 3: A lot of people feel that we should be just 114 00:04:57,467 --> 00:04:59,867 Speaker 3: have a completely open system and you slip players from 115 00:04:59,907 --> 00:05:02,187 Speaker 3: ever they are. I think there's really two main reasons 116 00:05:02,267 --> 00:05:06,347 Speaker 3: why we feel that's important. When the game went prefer 117 00:05:06,347 --> 00:05:09,187 Speaker 3: specially ninety five, all of the different unions chose to 118 00:05:09,227 --> 00:05:10,907 Speaker 3: go a different way in terms of how they structure 119 00:05:10,907 --> 00:05:13,107 Speaker 3: the game, and every model is slightly different. So the 120 00:05:13,107 --> 00:05:15,187 Speaker 3: Irish have probably got the most extreme in terms of 121 00:05:15,187 --> 00:05:18,627 Speaker 3: central control. Four provinces. They employ all the players, employ 122 00:05:18,667 --> 00:05:21,427 Speaker 3: all the coaches, one hundred percent control there and ourselves 123 00:05:21,427 --> 00:05:23,067 Speaker 3: in the French should be quite similar in the sense 124 00:05:23,107 --> 00:05:26,307 Speaker 3: that entrepreneurs came in, owned the clubs, they own the 125 00:05:26,347 --> 00:05:29,547 Speaker 3: player contracts, and we kind of leased them back and 126 00:05:29,587 --> 00:05:32,067 Speaker 3: we've found to be competitive in international rugby, you've got 127 00:05:32,107 --> 00:05:34,267 Speaker 3: to have a greater degree of control. So we're on 128 00:05:34,307 --> 00:05:35,827 Speaker 3: the verge of signing a thing at the moment called 129 00:05:35,827 --> 00:05:38,667 Speaker 3: a Professional Game Partnership, and that will give Steve a 130 00:05:38,707 --> 00:05:40,987 Speaker 3: lot more direct control over a core group of twenty 131 00:05:40,987 --> 00:05:44,107 Speaker 3: five players, so he'll have to say, in control over 132 00:05:44,187 --> 00:05:48,027 Speaker 3: things like strength and conditioning, reci periods, individual development programs 133 00:05:48,027 --> 00:05:50,147 Speaker 3: for the players, a much higher level of control and 134 00:05:50,187 --> 00:05:52,787 Speaker 3: he'll have that taking us through the age grade as well, 135 00:05:52,787 --> 00:05:54,987 Speaker 3: so under eighteens, under twenties into the A team and 136 00:05:54,987 --> 00:05:57,547 Speaker 3: then the senior team. Aligned to that, we just feel 137 00:05:57,547 --> 00:06:00,387 Speaker 3: that you want those players, you want your best players 138 00:06:00,427 --> 00:06:03,547 Speaker 3: based in your home country because you just got greater accessibility. 139 00:06:03,787 --> 00:06:05,747 Speaker 3: If you're playing in France, you don't have that quite 140 00:06:05,747 --> 00:06:09,307 Speaker 3: same relationship perhaps with directors of rugby, and what Steve's 141 00:06:09,347 --> 00:06:11,667 Speaker 3: really good at having been head coach of Leicester, he 142 00:06:11,747 --> 00:06:14,067 Speaker 3: knows all the directors of rugby. He's got good relationships 143 00:06:14,107 --> 00:06:16,827 Speaker 3: there and it's really a two way partnership in terms 144 00:06:16,907 --> 00:06:18,707 Speaker 3: of what's best for the players best for the club 145 00:06:18,707 --> 00:06:21,067 Speaker 3: and also of the country, So having them based domestically, 146 00:06:21,107 --> 00:06:23,427 Speaker 3: we think from a pure performance point of view is 147 00:06:24,027 --> 00:06:26,347 Speaker 3: a major advantage. And then you've got the commercial one, 148 00:06:26,427 --> 00:06:28,747 Speaker 3: which is we want our Premiership League. We want our 149 00:06:28,747 --> 00:06:31,467 Speaker 3: clubs to be successful and it's tough if your best 150 00:06:31,507 --> 00:06:34,747 Speaker 3: players have gone abroad. So we're pretty fixed on that 151 00:06:35,307 --> 00:06:37,787 Speaker 3: policy of only selecting players that are playing in England. 152 00:06:37,787 --> 00:06:38,747 Speaker 3: We think that's the right thing to do. 153 00:06:39,227 --> 00:06:41,747 Speaker 2: Is there a constant discussion though? I know down here there, 154 00:06:41,787 --> 00:06:43,667 Speaker 2: as you've probably there won't be a surprise to you. 155 00:06:43,667 --> 00:06:45,587 Speaker 2: You're right, there are people who think just open it up, 156 00:06:45,667 --> 00:06:47,467 Speaker 2: doesn't matter where you're playing, you should still be eligible 157 00:06:47,507 --> 00:06:49,267 Speaker 2: for the All Blacks. Richie Morgan is up in Japan. 158 00:06:49,347 --> 00:06:51,147 Speaker 2: We'd love to have them playing at teen. But now 159 00:06:51,147 --> 00:06:53,867 Speaker 2: that you injured, are are pretty firm on their stance 160 00:06:53,947 --> 00:06:56,587 Speaker 2: and have been on record as saying we're not anywhere 161 00:06:56,587 --> 00:06:58,627 Speaker 2: close to even tweaking it a litt alone changing it. 162 00:06:58,907 --> 00:07:00,147 Speaker 2: Is that your mindset as well? 163 00:07:00,467 --> 00:07:02,227 Speaker 3: Yeah, it is, And I think if you look around, 164 00:07:02,347 --> 00:07:03,987 Speaker 3: look around the world and look around the unions, the 165 00:07:03,987 --> 00:07:09,787 Speaker 3: Irish do it, you do it, we do it, The 166 00:07:09,827 --> 00:07:12,627 Speaker 3: French do it now there's always the exception to the rule, 167 00:07:12,627 --> 00:07:14,627 Speaker 3: and of course whenever I say that, I'll get it. 168 00:07:14,667 --> 00:07:16,467 Speaker 3: We'll look at South Africa. You know, they pick players 169 00:07:16,507 --> 00:07:18,147 Speaker 3: from all over the place. I think they're a bit 170 00:07:18,187 --> 00:07:20,067 Speaker 3: of an outlier. I mean they've got such a conveyor 171 00:07:20,067 --> 00:07:23,187 Speaker 3: belt of players and they've got such depth of selection. 172 00:07:23,547 --> 00:07:25,747 Speaker 3: I think they can afford to do that. So if 173 00:07:25,747 --> 00:07:28,387 Speaker 3: that works for them, that's fine. But we believe it's 174 00:07:28,387 --> 00:07:30,027 Speaker 3: the right model for us and will stick to that. 175 00:07:30,547 --> 00:07:32,467 Speaker 2: Tucking a great place to watch a game of rugby. 176 00:07:32,587 --> 00:07:34,667 Speaker 2: It's undergoing some renovation at the moment, I understand. Can 177 00:07:34,707 --> 00:07:35,547 Speaker 2: you tell us a bit about that. 178 00:07:35,627 --> 00:07:38,587 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's not going under renovation yet. We're looking at 179 00:07:38,587 --> 00:07:41,547 Speaker 3: twenty seven. So you know, we've got different models north 180 00:07:41,587 --> 00:07:43,907 Speaker 3: and South. So you don't own your stadium down here. 181 00:07:43,907 --> 00:07:46,987 Speaker 3: I've heard this talk about possibly that happening in Auckland, 182 00:07:46,987 --> 00:07:49,147 Speaker 3: but you don't own the stadium. Now, for us, the 183 00:07:49,147 --> 00:07:52,147 Speaker 3: ownership of the stadiums of a core pillar of our 184 00:07:52,187 --> 00:07:55,467 Speaker 3: commercial strategy. So we generate eighty five percent of our 185 00:07:55,507 --> 00:08:00,147 Speaker 3: revenue comes from the commercial side of the men's senior team. 186 00:08:01,107 --> 00:08:04,267 Speaker 3: Of that, fifty percent is match day revenue and the 187 00:08:04,307 --> 00:08:07,587 Speaker 3: rest is sponsorship and broader US rights. So if we're 188 00:08:07,587 --> 00:08:08,867 Speaker 3: going to do that, you've got to have a stadium 189 00:08:08,907 --> 00:08:11,507 Speaker 3: that's fit for purpose. And if you look at if 190 00:08:11,507 --> 00:08:13,267 Speaker 3: you look at England at the moment, you'll see stadiums 191 00:08:13,267 --> 00:08:16,547 Speaker 3: like Tottenhotspur Stadium at Whitehat Lane, major major renovation. I 192 00:08:16,587 --> 00:08:19,387 Speaker 3: think they spent one point two billion or something. Old 193 00:08:19,387 --> 00:08:21,827 Speaker 3: Trafford's going to be renovated fairly soon. I know we're 194 00:08:21,827 --> 00:08:23,907 Speaker 3: talking about football, not rugby, but you've got to keep 195 00:08:23,987 --> 00:08:26,227 Speaker 3: up in terms of the product you're offering your fans. 196 00:08:26,667 --> 00:08:28,947 Speaker 3: And Twickenham's a great place, loads are history and loads 197 00:08:28,947 --> 00:08:30,947 Speaker 3: of legacy, but she needs a bit of a facelift. 198 00:08:31,547 --> 00:08:33,027 Speaker 3: So it's not gonna be it's not gonna be cheap. 199 00:08:33,427 --> 00:08:35,707 Speaker 3: And we're going through that whole process now in terms 200 00:08:35,747 --> 00:08:37,547 Speaker 3: of design concepts, what will it look like? 201 00:08:37,587 --> 00:08:38,147 Speaker 2: What do we do? 202 00:08:38,907 --> 00:08:40,707 Speaker 3: Prior to that, we went through a whole range of options. 203 00:08:40,747 --> 00:08:42,387 Speaker 3: Do you knock it down and start from scratch, do 204 00:08:42,427 --> 00:08:44,627 Speaker 3: you move it to the center of the country more 205 00:08:44,627 --> 00:08:46,827 Speaker 3: geographically accessible to the rest of the country, or do 206 00:08:46,867 --> 00:08:49,907 Speaker 3: you renovate Twickenham? And all of the financial analysis we 207 00:08:49,987 --> 00:08:51,427 Speaker 3: did said that the best thing to do was really 208 00:08:51,427 --> 00:08:54,667 Speaker 3: stay in Twickenham and build the and build three of 209 00:08:54,707 --> 00:08:57,067 Speaker 3: the stands there up to match the stand and that 210 00:08:57,147 --> 00:08:59,587 Speaker 3: still allows you to access that commercial center of London. 211 00:09:00,227 --> 00:09:01,627 Speaker 3: So that's the route we're going down. We've got a 212 00:09:01,627 --> 00:09:03,787 Speaker 3: big meeting in January for the next phase of the program, 213 00:09:03,787 --> 00:09:06,667 Speaker 3: but hopefully we'll kick off in twenty seven and kick 214 00:09:06,667 --> 00:09:09,547 Speaker 3: it off in a year when you've got no autumn internationals, 215 00:09:09,547 --> 00:09:11,107 Speaker 3: so we do when you've got your warm up matches, 216 00:09:12,027 --> 00:09:14,307 Speaker 3: which is which commercial point of view is a better 217 00:09:14,307 --> 00:09:17,547 Speaker 3: thing for us. Were you ever close to relocating, Yeah, 218 00:09:17,547 --> 00:09:19,387 Speaker 3: we took it seriously, We looked at it. There were 219 00:09:19,547 --> 00:09:21,027 Speaker 3: there were a couple of things. There was talk about 220 00:09:21,067 --> 00:09:24,787 Speaker 3: a possible joint venture with Wembley. Government were quite keen 221 00:09:24,827 --> 00:09:27,747 Speaker 3: on that, the idea of one national stadium, but it 222 00:09:27,787 --> 00:09:29,867 Speaker 3: didn't work for us. Again from from from the point 223 00:09:29,867 --> 00:09:32,347 Speaker 3: of view hospitality and capacity to do that there, so 224 00:09:32,387 --> 00:09:34,347 Speaker 3: that didn't quite work. And Wembley's not that easy to 225 00:09:34,347 --> 00:09:36,907 Speaker 3: get to. And you're always also thinking about the tradition 226 00:09:36,987 --> 00:09:39,187 Speaker 3: of the game and you know, the home of English 227 00:09:39,227 --> 00:09:41,067 Speaker 3: rugby and all of that history and whatever, so you 228 00:09:41,107 --> 00:09:44,067 Speaker 3: don't move away from that lightheartedly. You've got to take 229 00:09:44,067 --> 00:09:46,067 Speaker 3: that really seriously, but no, we did look at it. 230 00:09:46,747 --> 00:09:49,467 Speaker 3: We looked at Birmingham, great location, easier for fans to 231 00:09:49,507 --> 00:09:52,627 Speaker 3: get to from around the country, but on balance we 232 00:09:52,707 --> 00:09:54,147 Speaker 3: ended up with stay where we are. 233 00:09:54,507 --> 00:09:55,907 Speaker 2: A couple of other issues. I want to get your 234 00:09:56,147 --> 00:09:59,187 Speaker 2: views on talk that the soon to begin Nations Championship 235 00:09:59,547 --> 00:10:03,307 Speaker 2: might have its finals weekend in Kata. Can you tell 236 00:10:03,347 --> 00:10:04,627 Speaker 2: us where those discussions are at. 237 00:10:04,987 --> 00:10:07,307 Speaker 3: Yeah, we started off the com stations on the Nations 238 00:10:07,307 --> 00:10:09,507 Speaker 3: Cup in March of twenty twenty. I remember them kicking 239 00:10:09,507 --> 00:10:11,987 Speaker 3: off and it was just pre COVID. I thought, oh yeah, 240 00:10:12,067 --> 00:10:14,427 Speaker 3: and I was relatively new, so I came in twenty nineteen, 241 00:10:14,427 --> 00:10:16,427 Speaker 3: so I thought we'll polish this off in probably about 242 00:10:16,547 --> 00:10:20,027 Speaker 3: six months. So in typical rugby fashion, things sometimes to 243 00:10:20,027 --> 00:10:22,307 Speaker 3: take a long time to get done. So here we 244 00:10:22,347 --> 00:10:24,507 Speaker 3: are still talking about it. But great progress on the 245 00:10:24,587 --> 00:10:27,987 Speaker 3: Nation's Cup as a competition as a format, really good 246 00:10:28,107 --> 00:10:30,267 Speaker 3: alignment with North and South, and we work really well 247 00:10:30,307 --> 00:10:33,707 Speaker 3: together actually in Northern Hemisphere and Southern Hemisphere. And then 248 00:10:33,827 --> 00:10:35,987 Speaker 3: out of the blue a couple of months ago we 249 00:10:36,027 --> 00:10:38,347 Speaker 3: had none solicited bid came in from the Middle East. 250 00:10:38,507 --> 00:10:41,347 Speaker 3: We're all under NDA, so we can't talk too openly. 251 00:10:41,387 --> 00:10:44,627 Speaker 3: There's a lot of confidentiality around it. But I think, 252 00:10:44,667 --> 00:10:46,747 Speaker 3: as you'd expect us to do, we need to take 253 00:10:46,787 --> 00:10:50,427 Speaker 3: every proposal seriously. We're all under massive financial pressure the 254 00:10:50,467 --> 00:10:53,147 Speaker 3: game as a whole globally worldwide. We need to generate 255 00:10:53,147 --> 00:10:55,227 Speaker 3: more revenue and that needs to be invested back into 256 00:10:55,267 --> 00:10:57,107 Speaker 3: the game. But it's got to be the right decision 257 00:10:57,147 --> 00:11:00,707 Speaker 3: as well, So the obvious questions come up, will fans 258 00:11:00,747 --> 00:11:03,467 Speaker 3: travel there? Is it the right place to go to? 259 00:11:03,907 --> 00:11:05,627 Speaker 3: Are there other options to do? So we're in that 260 00:11:05,707 --> 00:11:09,267 Speaker 3: situation just really evaluating all the different as possible aspects 261 00:11:09,307 --> 00:11:11,027 Speaker 3: to it, and then we'll make a joint decision. 262 00:11:11,427 --> 00:11:13,427 Speaker 2: What do you think the main things that will inform 263 00:11:13,467 --> 00:11:14,667 Speaker 2: that decision will be. 264 00:11:15,507 --> 00:11:17,827 Speaker 3: I think fan interest is really important, so we need 265 00:11:17,867 --> 00:11:20,587 Speaker 3: to we need to understand what the fans want and 266 00:11:20,707 --> 00:11:22,987 Speaker 3: really have a good sense of how they feel about that. 267 00:11:23,547 --> 00:11:25,507 Speaker 3: I don't know how much coverage you got down here, 268 00:11:25,507 --> 00:11:28,947 Speaker 3: but we had the situation in European football with the 269 00:11:28,947 --> 00:11:32,267 Speaker 3: Super League where they were going for and that they 270 00:11:32,267 --> 00:11:33,747 Speaker 3: were sort of sort of went off in that direction 271 00:11:33,867 --> 00:11:37,467 Speaker 3: pretty quickly, and then things unfolded quite quickly as well. 272 00:11:37,507 --> 00:11:39,667 Speaker 3: So I think taking the fans on that journey and 273 00:11:39,707 --> 00:11:41,747 Speaker 3: really understanding how they'll react to it and what's the 274 00:11:41,787 --> 00:11:44,387 Speaker 3: right product for them as well is important. And then 275 00:11:44,387 --> 00:11:46,187 Speaker 3: the financials of the financials. You know, you'll do all 276 00:11:46,187 --> 00:11:48,747 Speaker 3: your normal financial analysis and say is that you know? 277 00:11:48,907 --> 00:11:50,307 Speaker 3: Is that worth move? 278 00:11:52,107 --> 00:11:55,347 Speaker 2: Interested about the challenges facing or not the challenges? Sorry, 279 00:11:55,227 --> 00:11:59,787 Speaker 2: the the frame of mind around the Northern hemisphere rugby 280 00:11:59,827 --> 00:12:02,467 Speaker 2: compared to Southern hemisphere rugby. We often hear you know, 281 00:12:03,427 --> 00:12:07,107 Speaker 2: you know northeast south? Is there a northeast? Are they 282 00:12:07,227 --> 00:12:10,667 Speaker 2: actually more areas of alignment than we realize? 283 00:12:10,907 --> 00:12:13,227 Speaker 3: I think it's probably more alignment. I think on things 284 00:12:13,267 --> 00:12:16,707 Speaker 3: like competition formats and how do you drive greater value 285 00:12:16,787 --> 00:12:19,067 Speaker 3: through because the challenge you face with the rugby it's 286 00:12:19,067 --> 00:12:21,147 Speaker 3: not like cricket where you can just throw up a 287 00:12:21,147 --> 00:12:22,907 Speaker 3: new format of the sport and you can have players 288 00:12:22,907 --> 00:12:25,187 Speaker 3: playing three hundred and twenty days a year. You just 289 00:12:25,187 --> 00:12:27,107 Speaker 3: can't do that in rugby. Your best players are limited 290 00:12:27,107 --> 00:12:29,067 Speaker 3: the number of games they can play, so we've got 291 00:12:29,067 --> 00:12:31,587 Speaker 3: an obligation to drive as much value as possible through 292 00:12:31,947 --> 00:12:34,427 Speaker 3: the same volume. Ideally less you're never going to get 293 00:12:34,467 --> 00:12:37,787 Speaker 3: more matches in place, so we work together really well 294 00:12:37,827 --> 00:12:40,227 Speaker 3: in terms of that commercial aspect of things. I think 295 00:12:40,227 --> 00:12:42,267 Speaker 3: we're a lot closer now in terms of where we 296 00:12:42,307 --> 00:12:44,827 Speaker 3: want to get to the shape of the game. Personally, 297 00:12:44,867 --> 00:12:47,827 Speaker 3: I think the biggest challenge we face as a sport 298 00:12:47,867 --> 00:12:51,427 Speaker 3: globally is attracting a younger audience. And I think sometimes 299 00:12:51,427 --> 00:12:54,347 Speaker 3: we're a little bit too traditional. And you guys down here, 300 00:12:54,387 --> 00:12:57,107 Speaker 3: particularly New Zealand, you're very outspoken about speed of game, 301 00:12:57,667 --> 00:13:02,067 Speaker 3: style of play, regulation and law changes to facilitate that, 302 00:13:03,107 --> 00:13:06,347 Speaker 3: and we're a lot closer than people might imagine on that. Personally, 303 00:13:06,867 --> 00:13:09,827 Speaker 3: I'm in favor of in favor of a revision to 304 00:13:09,867 --> 00:13:13,427 Speaker 3: the red card situation, but I'm speaking that in this case. 305 00:13:13,467 --> 00:13:15,347 Speaker 3: I'm talking about that personal of course, not the shared 306 00:13:15,427 --> 00:13:17,027 Speaker 3: view of a lot of people in the RF. You 307 00:13:17,067 --> 00:13:19,147 Speaker 3: i'd say we're probably split fifty to fifty, and you 308 00:13:19,187 --> 00:13:22,747 Speaker 3: get that player welfare conversation versus the product you've got on. 309 00:13:22,827 --> 00:13:24,987 Speaker 3: But I just think at the moment, you know, God forbid, 310 00:13:25,067 --> 00:13:27,467 Speaker 3: you know tonight, you get a red card nearly stage 311 00:13:27,467 --> 00:13:29,707 Speaker 3: of the game, it just it changes the atmosphere in 312 00:13:29,707 --> 00:13:31,707 Speaker 3: the crowd and it changes expectation there. So I think 313 00:13:31,707 --> 00:13:34,227 Speaker 3: we need to really seriously look at that, and we're 314 00:13:34,307 --> 00:13:36,867 Speaker 3: very much aligned from an exec point of view with 315 00:13:37,067 --> 00:13:39,067 Speaker 3: New Zealand. I think the other piece where we're very 316 00:13:39,067 --> 00:13:41,467 Speaker 3: aligned is how we market the game. Yeah, I just 317 00:13:41,507 --> 00:13:43,467 Speaker 3: think we've got up our game there in terms of 318 00:13:43,587 --> 00:13:47,067 Speaker 3: use of information, explaining why decisions happen on the pitch, 319 00:13:47,147 --> 00:13:50,787 Speaker 3: communicate with the crowd, a more contemporary, more youth focused 320 00:13:50,827 --> 00:13:53,387 Speaker 3: way of building the game, and we're pretty much aligned 321 00:13:53,387 --> 00:13:53,627 Speaker 3: on that. 322 00:13:54,107 --> 00:13:57,227 Speaker 2: How does Mark Robinson go in global you know Rugby 323 00:13:57,227 --> 00:13:59,467 Speaker 2: conversation you see before that. You know, is he a 324 00:13:59,467 --> 00:14:01,107 Speaker 2: bit outspoken as he is? He he banged the table 325 00:14:01,147 --> 00:14:02,107 Speaker 2: a bit, does he or he does? 326 00:14:02,227 --> 00:14:04,787 Speaker 3: Yeah, he's very He does a good job protecting your interests. 327 00:14:06,027 --> 00:14:08,667 Speaker 3: So he's not slow in coming forward with his views, 328 00:14:08,667 --> 00:14:11,347 Speaker 3: which is great and I'd say ninety percent of the 329 00:14:11,347 --> 00:14:15,067 Speaker 3: time we're probably probably in agreement, so that's fine. But no, No, 330 00:14:15,907 --> 00:14:17,627 Speaker 3: he's passionate about the game. He's played the game at 331 00:14:17,627 --> 00:14:20,387 Speaker 3: the highest level. He wants to see a good game 332 00:14:20,427 --> 00:14:23,427 Speaker 3: in place, and most of the things he talks about 333 00:14:23,427 --> 00:14:24,907 Speaker 3: are really in the best interest of the game. So 334 00:14:25,147 --> 00:14:26,547 Speaker 3: I think he does a great job for you. 335 00:14:26,627 --> 00:14:28,547 Speaker 2: Do you feel optimistic about the future of the game 336 00:14:28,547 --> 00:14:29,027 Speaker 2: of Rugby. 337 00:14:29,107 --> 00:14:29,787 Speaker 3: Yeah, I really do. 338 00:14:29,987 --> 00:14:30,467 Speaker 2: I really do. 339 00:14:30,587 --> 00:14:33,387 Speaker 3: I think I think COVID hit us a lot more 340 00:14:33,427 --> 00:14:35,947 Speaker 3: than people realize, you know, and we got through it 341 00:14:35,987 --> 00:14:38,627 Speaker 3: and we're still in that sort of kind of recovery phase. Now. 342 00:14:39,227 --> 00:14:41,627 Speaker 3: We saw a great World Cup in France. We've just 343 00:14:41,667 --> 00:14:44,987 Speaker 3: come off for an outstanding six Nations. I think if 344 00:14:44,987 --> 00:14:47,187 Speaker 3: we can get this Nation's Cup done and in the 345 00:14:47,227 --> 00:14:51,067 Speaker 3: right format, I think that's really really important. We do 346 00:14:51,147 --> 00:14:53,507 Speaker 3: need to address the marketing and the communication of the game, 347 00:14:54,267 --> 00:14:56,587 Speaker 3: but it's I personally, I still think it's the best 348 00:14:56,587 --> 00:14:58,507 Speaker 3: game in the world, and I'm really optimistic that we'll 349 00:14:58,547 --> 00:15:00,227 Speaker 3: get these things right and we'll drive it forward. And 350 00:15:00,227 --> 00:15:02,627 Speaker 3: it's time for rugby to reestablish itself. 351 00:15:02,747 --> 00:15:06,587 Speaker 2: And most importantly, the thirty year droughted Eden par Is 352 00:15:06,627 --> 00:15:07,667 Speaker 2: that going to fall tonight. 353 00:15:09,067 --> 00:15:12,827 Speaker 3: I hope tonight's a brilliant game. I hope it's an 354 00:15:13,027 --> 00:15:15,427 Speaker 3: entertaining product for the fans and they love it in 355 00:15:15,467 --> 00:15:17,907 Speaker 3: the reg of their seats. I'd like us to square 356 00:15:17,907 --> 00:15:19,867 Speaker 3: the series up tonight and then we can see you 357 00:15:19,907 --> 00:15:21,627 Speaker 3: again on the second of November and twicken and when 358 00:15:21,627 --> 00:15:24,667 Speaker 3: we call that the decider. Yep, but no injuries, no 359 00:15:24,787 --> 00:15:28,787 Speaker 3: red cards, stunning event, people loving it, walking away feeling 360 00:15:28,827 --> 00:15:31,507 Speaker 3: they've really enjoyed the evening. Then that's the main objective me. 361 00:15:31,707 --> 00:15:33,627 Speaker 2: Look, I think we can all agree on that. Bill. 362 00:15:33,627 --> 00:15:35,067 Speaker 2: It's been great to get the chance to chat. Thanks 363 00:15:35,067 --> 00:15:37,267 Speaker 2: for taking the time pleasure. Always good to see you now. 364 00:15:37,267 --> 00:15:39,387 Speaker 2: Good to see you too, Bill, Thanks Tonday, Bill Sweeney. 365 00:15:39,387 --> 00:15:43,867 Speaker 2: There are if you CEO very open on a number 366 00:15:43,907 --> 00:15:44,427 Speaker 2: of topics. 367 00:15:44,427 --> 00:15:48,147 Speaker 1: There for more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen 368 00:15:48,227 --> 00:15:51,467 Speaker 1: live to news Talks it'd be weekends from midday, or 369 00:15:51,547 --> 00:15:53,507 Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.