1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:03,680 Speaker 1: There are concerns about the integrity of our elections. After 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: a South Auckland local body result was thrown out over 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:10,080 Speaker 1: claims of voter fraud. Amnico judge found irregularities in the 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:13,560 Speaker 1: Puppa Toy Toy subdivision that affected the result. That means 5 00:00:13,560 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: a new election has to be held next year. Investigators 6 00:00:16,200 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: say seventy nine votes were cast without the voter's knowledge, 7 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,439 Speaker 1: some allegedly taken straight from the mailboxes. Julie Hagey is 8 00:00:23,480 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: the CEO of Transparency International New Zealand and joins you now, 9 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:26,880 Speaker 1: good one to. 10 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:28,720 Speaker 2: You, Julie, good morning. 11 00:00:28,920 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: This is pretty concerning. Really, we haven't really heard much 12 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:32,680 Speaker 1: of this sort of thing in the past. 13 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,440 Speaker 2: No, that's right. I think this is a very unusual case. 14 00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:40,920 Speaker 2: There have been complaints to judges, but none has actually 15 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,000 Speaker 2: none has actually resulted in an overturning of an election 16 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:46,960 Speaker 2: as far as I could look back, as far as 17 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:50,560 Speaker 2: I could see, So it is really an unusual case. 18 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:52,680 Speaker 2: And I have to say I haven't seen the decision 19 00:00:52,720 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 2: of the complaint and no change has been laid. But 20 00:00:55,720 --> 00:00:59,720 Speaker 2: though there are two investigations underway, so I can't talk 21 00:00:59,760 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 2: about publicly available on the media. 22 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,080 Speaker 1: Okay, well, it's interesting. It's interesting when they've looked at 23 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,080 Speaker 1: seventy nine votes the four the four councilors who got 24 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:11,399 Speaker 1: onto the board all got on with majorities between twelve 25 00:01:11,480 --> 00:01:14,639 Speaker 1: hundred and two thousand. Would seventy nine irregular votes actually 26 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 1: affecting a result? 27 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:19,679 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think what the judge said was 28 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,399 Speaker 2: that there was an indication that there might be more, 29 00:01:23,120 --> 00:01:25,080 Speaker 2: and that this was just the ones they opened, and 30 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:28,279 Speaker 2: they found that that a high portion of them had 31 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 2: been were actually voted for the group of the group, 32 00:01:33,080 --> 00:01:35,040 Speaker 2: and so they said there's likely to be it's likely 33 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 2: to be a bigger problem. And so I think that's 34 00:01:37,480 --> 00:01:41,039 Speaker 2: the biggest issue. The threshold they have to get to 35 00:01:41,120 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 2: under the Local Literal Act, the judge has to get 36 00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,520 Speaker 2: to to look at voiding a result, and he got 37 00:01:47,560 --> 00:01:50,520 Speaker 2: to that, and that's that's a high threshold. So it's 38 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,840 Speaker 2: not clearly there's a range of issues. We don't know 39 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 2: them all yet, but clearly there's a range of problems. 40 00:01:55,880 --> 00:01:59,040 Speaker 1: Do you reckon there's more electorates and more elections that 41 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: are affected by this thing? 42 00:02:01,560 --> 00:02:05,160 Speaker 2: Oh well, no, I don't see evidence. We've got pretty 43 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,959 Speaker 2: good systems and in this election there's been several challenges 44 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 2: to the District Court and quite a few of them 45 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,959 Speaker 2: have been overturned because they hadn't met that three child. 46 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:16,000 Speaker 2: So I think there is a process for people to 47 00:02:16,040 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 2: go through. It probably needs in the select committee that 48 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 2: looked into the last local abody election, the previous local 49 00:02:23,280 --> 00:02:26,639 Speaker 2: body election said thinks there are some changes that need 50 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:28,400 Speaker 2: to be made the law to strengthen it and to 51 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,919 Speaker 2: increase the penalties. But it does seem to be picking up. 52 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 2: That's the good thing about this is that a person 53 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 2: made there, made the effort to go to make a 54 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 2: district court inquiry, to petition for that and got a result. 55 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:43,760 Speaker 2: So that's that's a good thing. That's a good thing 56 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:44,520 Speaker 2: about our system. 57 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: Random message. Well, I was going to say, you could 58 00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: say it was caught, and you know, it was caught 59 00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:52,280 Speaker 1: and the result was thrown out and that shows in 60 00:02:52,280 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: a way that our system is working. But it was 61 00:02:54,280 --> 00:02:57,560 Speaker 1: only caught because vivhaus here, who's the deputy chairman of 62 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: the board, actually had some concerns and brought the complaint. 63 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:03,920 Speaker 1: So is the system really working or do we need 64 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,919 Speaker 1: whistleblowers like Viv Well, I. 65 00:03:06,880 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 2: Think it doesn't. We do need people is your right 66 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:13,440 Speaker 2: to say we don't think this voting process has been 67 00:03:13,520 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 2: run correctly. It's not just about somebody above that finding 68 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:19,680 Speaker 2: it out. So everybody's got a right to do that 69 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:22,400 Speaker 2: in relation to their voter, in relation to their who 70 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:24,119 Speaker 2: voted for them or who didn't vote for them, They've 71 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 2: got a right to get there. There's there's problems with 72 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 2: the timing. They have to get it through very quickly, 73 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 2: so that's a that's an issue with timing. But it 74 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:33,560 Speaker 2: is that system does seem to be does seem to 75 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:36,000 Speaker 2: have held up in this in case, although we now 76 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 2: need to see the police investigations are underway. What really 77 00:03:39,440 --> 00:03:43,640 Speaker 2: matters is that if there has been malfeasance happening here, 78 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,560 Speaker 2: people are actually held to account. And that's the real 79 00:03:46,640 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 2: nub of this. That's it might be harder to prove, 80 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: but I'm hopeful that the police are putting good energy 81 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:53,800 Speaker 2: into that those investigations. 82 00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:55,480 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Julie Hag. 83 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,360 Speaker 2: For more from Early Edition with Ryan Bridge, listen live 84 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:02,480 Speaker 2: and News Works. It'd be from five am weekdays, or 85 00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:04,480 Speaker 2: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.