Speaker 1: Kielda. I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page,
Speaker 1: a daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald. In
Speaker 1: May seventeen, rocket Lab launched its first rocket into space.
Speaker 1: Over the last seven years, the company has grown to
Speaker 1: become a powerhouse in the global aerospace industry and has
Speaker 1: driven the growth of New Zealand's space sector. The company's
Speaker 1: astronomical success has seen founder Peter Beck receive a knighthood
Speaker 1: in the recent King's Birthday Honors. Ahead of the company's
Speaker 1: fiftieth launch, Beck joins us today on the Front Page
Speaker 1: to discuss how far he plans the company to soar
Speaker 1: and why the sky isn't the limit for New Zealand.
Speaker 1: I believe that there's a congrats in order. Are you
Speaker 1: making everyone call you sir Peter now?
Speaker 2: Oh, Jesse, No, no, not at all, it's just peak.
Speaker 2: Thanks very much.
Speaker 1: And for those who may not know, I guess they've
Speaker 1: been living under a rock. How would you explain what
Speaker 1: rocket Lab does to someone on the street.
Speaker 2: So we design and build and launch rockets and also
Speaker 2: satellites and spacecraft. So we launch a little rocket called
Speaker 2: Electron and it's now the second most frequently launched US
Speaker 2: rocket in fact, the fourth most frequently launched rocket in
Speaker 2: the world, and we built spacecraft ranging from little missions
Speaker 2: through to very large national security missions and even missions
Speaker 2: to Mars.
Speaker 1: And you take it through from the design and obviously
Speaker 1: working out the components stage right through to the launch.
Speaker 1: That's pretty spectacular.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So we're very unique in the fact that, you know,
Speaker 2: we started off obviously in launching rockets, but now we
Speaker 2: are a multinational end to end space company. So we'll
Speaker 2: design a satellite for somebody, we'll launch a satellite for somebody,
Speaker 2: will even operate that satellite, so we have the keys,
Speaker 2: the tools, and then the.
Speaker 1: Service that no time to lose mission? Am I pronouncing
Speaker 1: that right?
Speaker 2: No time to lose? So we always have a little
Speaker 2: bit of a play on the names. The rocket industry
Speaker 2: is an incredibly serious industry, so we like to have
Speaker 2: just a little bit of fun.
Speaker 1: N No Time to Loose mission is scheduled to launch
Speaker 1: from Rocket Lab Launch Complex one today, June nineteenth. This
Speaker 1: mission puts you on track to reach fifty launches faster
Speaker 1: than any other company in history. How significance is.
Speaker 2: That, I think I think it's quite significant. Really, I mean,
Speaker 2: everybody sees the rocket. But I guess what is less
Speaker 2: obvious is all of the infrastructure and everything behind it.
Speaker 2: And you know, it's well understood that your first rocket
Speaker 2: is really really hard. Your twentieth rocket is like twenty
Speaker 2: times harder than your first rocket because you have to
Speaker 2: be in full production at that point. So reaching a
Speaker 2: milestone of fifty flights, not many rockets have launched as
Speaker 2: many as fifty times, let alone to do it the fastest,
Speaker 2: I think a real testament to the team and to
Speaker 2: the company.
Speaker 1: And what we're talking about today is a French company,
Speaker 1: isn't it in terms of there's no time to lose mission?
Speaker 1: What are they launching?
Speaker 2: So they have a number of spacecraft. So this is
Speaker 2: a first of five missions for us, and it's a
Speaker 2: constellation of spacecraft, and each one of those launches is
Speaker 2: going to a very specific plane, and each one of
Speaker 2: those five launches delivers them to all those different planes.
Speaker 1: And what do they use that for? Like, how do
Speaker 1: companies use that technology? Now that's in all bit.
Speaker 2: Look, I'll give you a great example of two missions
Speaker 2: we just launched FANASA in fact, and those two missions
Speaker 2: were to measure the temperature radiating out of the South
Speaker 2: and North Pole simultaneously, and by measuring that temperature, you
Speaker 2: can determine how fast dice is melting and also the
Speaker 2: sea rise and might surprise everybody that there is no
Speaker 2: validated analytical model of sea rise. So you know, those
Speaker 2: two satellites are providing the first actual data that we
Speaker 2: have to measure it in any level of complexity. And look,
Speaker 2: this is just a couple of fifty missions, right, And
Speaker 2: you know there's a tremendous number of missions, whether it
Speaker 2: be you know, science missions of climate change, missions like that,
Speaker 2: missions for national security, or you know, we went to
Speaker 2: the Moon two years ago, so really a huge span
Speaker 2: of missions.
Speaker 1: Just casually chucking in there that you've gone to the moon.
Speaker 2: I like that.
Speaker 1: And I guess if we go back a few years
Speaker 1: when you first launched rocket Lab in two thousand and six,
Speaker 1: so to speak, did people think you were mental?
Speaker 2: Well, there's certainly some questions asked, that's for sure. It
Speaker 2: seemed an unlikely place to begin, I guess. But you know,
Speaker 2: my dream as a kid was always to go and
Speaker 2: work for NASA. That was the dream. And I got
Speaker 2: to see that dream out, but in a slightly different way.
Speaker 2: In the fact that we get to work with NASA
Speaker 2: on a bunch of missions. So I got to work
Speaker 2: with NASA rather than work in NASA. Yeah, so unlikely beginnings.
Speaker 2: But you know, I've always said that New Zealanders full
Speaker 2: of incredibly talented and bright engineers, and really in this game,
Speaker 2: that's what it takes.
Speaker 1: And I know that we've got the launch point down
Speaker 1: in Mahia Peninsula. I know that you've faced backlash with
Speaker 1: locals in the past about that launch site.
Speaker 3: On the outskirts of Mahya. A group of locals opposed
Speaker 3: to Rocket Labs operations have set up a small protest
Speaker 3: that was a recent payload for the US military that
Speaker 3: galvanized as simmering discontent among some in the community.
Speaker 4: Originally, I thought it was going to be a wonderful idea.
Speaker 4: I thought that our babies can aspire to be rocket scientists.
Speaker 4: But I've seen now that this is a big company
Speaker 4: that is never going to put our needs.
Speaker 1: For where's the relationship now at between Rocket Lab and
Speaker 1: those locals after fifty launches?
Speaker 2: Now, yeah, I think it needs that needs to be
Speaker 2: put in a little bit of context. I think, you know,
Speaker 2: we have a wonderful relationship down in that community, and
Speaker 2: in fact, a lot of that community is filled with
Speaker 2: rock and lab people. And yeah, like anything, there's always
Speaker 2: people that aren't supportive of it. So I think it's
Speaker 2: an extreme view to say, you know, Tara whole community
Speaker 2: with a few So, yeah, there's a few people that
Speaker 2: don't enjoy what we do, but you know, we have
Speaker 2: a vast majority of strong community support and the relationship
Speaker 2: has always been great. You know, when we when we
Speaker 2: first started to look for launch sites, I remember meeting,
Speaker 2: you know, the representative of the landowners, you know, because
Speaker 2: it's it's it's obviously Mari land, and they were looking
Speaker 2: to diversify out of farming. And you know, they diversified
Speaker 2: it out of farming very successfully and of course both
Speaker 2: successfully and in many ways, including financially. And you know,
Speaker 2: I think nobody expected the diversification to come in in
Speaker 2: the terms of rockets, but nevertheless, you know, it's been
Speaker 2: a it's been a great and continue to be a
Speaker 2: great partnership.
Speaker 1: Do you see any other parts of New Zealand that
Speaker 1: could diversify like Mahia Peninsula has to the space sector.
Speaker 2: Well, look, I mean the space industry isn't just launch
Speaker 2: In fact, you know, two thirds of their business is
Speaker 2: building satellites in spacecraft and that's kind of geographically agnostic.
Speaker 2: And there's some great startups actually in New Zealand now,
Speaker 2: great space startups, and we're really started to see an
Speaker 2: ecosystem build, which is super exciting. So I think New
Speaker 2: Zealand can contribute in the space industry. You know, like
Speaker 2: I say, launch Away steals the show, but does a
Speaker 2: tremendous amount of opportunity across the whole space sector. And
Speaker 2: you're starting to see a number of little startups and
Speaker 2: in even traditional companies play.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's quite exciting to see. Hey, we've spoken to
Speaker 1: Space Minister Judith Collins just after she was overseas promoting
Speaker 1: New Zealand space industry in the US. She told us
Speaker 1: and New Zealand was number four last year in the
Speaker 1: number of launches worldwide, after the US, Russia, and China.
Speaker 1: How incredible was that?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think I look as a proud TV I
Speaker 2: think it's wonderful. And she's right, like America launches the
Speaker 2: most amount of rockets, and it's China, then it's Russia,
Speaker 2: and then it's the Maha Peninsula, then it's Europe and
Speaker 2: in the air and so on and so forth. So no,
Speaker 2: I think it's awesome and it shows where New Zealand
Speaker 2: kind of sits in ranks in the international industry and
Speaker 2: such a short amount of time.
Speaker 1: Are you excited to see the real possibilities for New
Speaker 1: Zealand when it comes to space.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I mean it's exactly the kind of thing that
Speaker 2: New Zealand does really well, and that's kind of testament
Speaker 2: to our success and been able to be successful in
Speaker 2: scale in New Zealand and New Zealand, as I said before,
Speaker 2: are incredibly smart. People, were very innovative and the ability
Speaker 2: to kind of move across multiple functions and disciplines, which
Speaker 2: is really important in space industry. So no, I look,
Speaker 2: we've already seen a bunch of Rocket Lab has spin
Speaker 2: out and start their own ventures, which I absolutely applaud
Speaker 2: and support. Long may that continue. I think there's this
Speaker 2: tremendous opportunity and it's one of those things that every
Speaker 2: country has recognized the value of space and investing deeply
Speaker 2: in it. I mean, it's kind of like the other AI.
Speaker 2: I mean, there's Ais obviously the talk of all the conversations,
Speaker 2: but equally, you know something that is scaling just as
Speaker 2: fast as space.
Speaker 1: And it also seems like a lot of millionaires and
Speaker 1: billionaires around the world are investing in space, like you've
Speaker 1: got Jeff Bezos, elon Masker, Richard Branson. Do you think
Speaker 1: that more money should be invested in tackling I guess
Speaker 1: climate change and issues on this planet rather than exploring
Speaker 1: out of space.
Speaker 2: I guess, well, I mean, yeah, it's two points. There
Speaker 2: is one. You know, we often joke at two BIX
Speaker 2: competitors are actually the two wealthiest people on this planet.
Speaker 2: And for us, we don't have infinite capital, so we
Speaker 2: have to be very smart and we model ourselves after
Speaker 2: a famous Ernest Rutherford saying it, and that was he said,
Speaker 2: we have no money, so we therefore we have to
Speaker 2: think and like I say, we definitely have that as
Speaker 2: the shining light within the company. But look, it's very
Speaker 2: easy to focus on that as a narrative. But all
Speaker 2: of the things that we use down on here on
Speaker 2: Earth or so many of the things are enabled by
Speaker 2: space and these technologies. Because they're hidden, people don't realize
Speaker 2: how much they use them. GPS is the easy example
Speaker 2: to call out, right, I mean, if we switched off
Speaker 2: the GPS constellation tomorrow. You know, not only it's kind
Speaker 2: of inconvenient when you want to use your phone to
Speaker 2: get somewhere, but all of the other companies and systems
Speaker 2: that are enabled by GPS stop like you know, aircraft navigation,
Speaker 2: shipping navigation, whether or not your pizza turns up. You
Speaker 2: go on and on and on, so that there's so
Speaker 2: many things that people just don't realize are enabled by space.
Speaker 2: And the more infrastructure that we can put in orbit,
Speaker 2: the more improvement of life and improvement of capabilities you
Speaker 2: can have down on here on Earth. And with respect
Speaker 2: to climate change, I mean, we just launched two spacecraft
Speaker 2: that are going to provide some of the most valuable
Speaker 2: data and in climate change in a long time.
Speaker 1: I've seen some conversations online around the kind of rivalry
Speaker 1: I guess between Lab and space X. Obviously there are
Speaker 1: a few competitors in the field. Is that kind of
Speaker 1: like a Holden versus Ford kind of rivalry. I don't know,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to context your lightst Yeah.
Speaker 2: No, Look, look I don't actually think it's a rivalry.
Speaker 2: I mean, we all know each other and we will
Speaker 2: respect each other for what each other has achieved. And
Speaker 2: the one thing I'll say about the space industry is
Speaker 2: that it's so immensely difficult to do that. When you
Speaker 2: were able to achieve something, everybody else is able to go, Well,
Speaker 2: that was really hard. And respect each brother's for each contribution.
Speaker 2: So certainly we compete for contracts and for customers and
Speaker 2: all of that, but it's a unique industry. At the
Speaker 2: end of the day, when why someone else does something
Speaker 2: truly amazing, all of the competitors are the first to
Speaker 2: congratulate them. So it's unique in that sense.
Speaker 5: Elon Musk's space x is leading the rocket launch market
Speaker 5: here in the US, but one wizard investment bank or
Speaker 5: warning that it's monopoly could well chalk this sector, and
Speaker 5: it'squalt huge concern.
Speaker 1: We do see other companies rising.
Speaker 2: We see companies like rocket Lab, which I think is
Speaker 2: going to ever ever more be on their heels.
Speaker 1: And speaking of contracts, you've also signed a lot of
Speaker 1: contracts with the US military, notably the half a billion
Speaker 1: dollar contractor built eighteen space vehicles that was announced in
Speaker 1: December last year. How much of rocket Lab's business now
Speaker 1: comes from that US military and the wider defense relationship.
Speaker 2: So to give your listens kind of some context in
Speaker 2: the company. So it's about two thousand people in rocket Lab.
Speaker 2: We have five different business units and five different states
Speaker 2: in the US, one in Canada as well. And two
Speaker 2: thirds of the business is focused towards space systems, so
Speaker 2: that's you know, spacecraft and satellites, and one third of
Speaker 2: the business is sort of focused on launch. And then
Speaker 2: across the business about fifty percent of the business is
Speaker 2: direct commercial, and then fifty center the business is kind
Speaker 2: of government, and then that breaks up into defense and
Speaker 2: also civil kind of work, meaning NASA, NOAH and the
Speaker 2: government agencies that are non defense.
Speaker 1: In terms of those defense relationships, I guess would work
Speaker 1: be done in New Zealand's backyard when it comes to.
Speaker 2: That, well, we certainly have launched defense customers. And you know,
Speaker 2: the way that works is in order for us to
Speaker 2: launch anything, there has to be a New Zealand launch
Speaker 2: license granted, and it's actually granted by a minister, you know,
Speaker 2: and there's a very very strict process that's applied through there,
Speaker 2: including national interest tests, and it has to be signed
Speaker 2: off by a whole bunch of government or organizations. So
Speaker 2: you know, if a customer wants to launch out of
Speaker 2: New Zealand. A defense customer wants to launch out of
Speaker 2: New Zealand, then it's a New Zealand government that decides
Speaker 2: whether or not that launches in the interest of all
Speaker 2: of our values, all of our treaties and all of
Speaker 2: those all of those things, and what we've launched a
Speaker 2: data have been R and D platforms and experiments in
Speaker 2: those kinds of things. And you know, as a company,
Speaker 2: we have our own beliefs and rules, and you know,
Speaker 2: we certainly don't do weapons and all those kinds of things.
Speaker 2: But the reality is that space is it's called a
Speaker 2: dual system kind of domain. GPS satellites we use an
Speaker 2: example again, like all of our commercial products and things
Speaker 2: are kind of enabled by GPS, but GPS is a
Speaker 2: one hundred percent US government owned and operated military asset
Speaker 2: in space. So there's a lot of dual use that
Speaker 2: goes on between these things in orbit.
Speaker 1: That's really interesting that the government has such a hand on,
Speaker 1: especially those defense relationships. Basically, you're not down there chucking
Speaker 1: up anything you want into the atmosphere. And I guess
Speaker 1: in that sense it would be quite a process if
Speaker 1: the US military, say wanted to ever engage in nuclear
Speaker 1: related launchers on New Zealand soil, for example, Well, that
Speaker 1: simply wouldn't be possible.
Speaker 2: I mean, like I say, there is a whole process
Speaker 2: that goes through many, many different departments and hands and
Speaker 2: it's signed off by a minister. So that just simply
Speaker 2: would not be possible because I mean it would be
Speaker 2: in conflict with New Zealand's own rules and regulations and
Speaker 2: international treaties.
Speaker 1: So, Peter, with the government touting its success in the
Speaker 1: space industry here rightly, so, is there anything more that
Speaker 1: could be done or should be done to support New
Speaker 1: Zealand space industry or are you satisfied with how things
Speaker 1: are privately run without the government support or intervention at
Speaker 1: the moment.
Speaker 2: No, I think the Space Agency definitely has a role
Speaker 2: to play. If you look at NASA as a space agency.
Speaker 2: So fifty percent of NASA's kind of role or remit
Speaker 2: if you will, is to fund human spaceflight and fund
Speaker 2: scientific missions and discovery and all of that. The other
Speaker 2: fifty percent is to inspire people to pursue careers in
Speaker 2: STEM and higher education and things like that. And this
Speaker 2: is where space has a kind of an almost outsized
Speaker 2: hand to play. Because you know, we do a lot
Speaker 2: of kind of community where it can. We've done a
Speaker 2: lot of school visits and things like that, and you
Speaker 2: can take the most disengaged kids sitting at the back
Speaker 2: of the room and give them something that's been to orbit,
Speaker 2: that they've held in their hands, it's been to space,
Speaker 2: and watch their eyes sparkle. So it has the ability
Speaker 2: to reach people in a totally different people and I
Speaker 2: think that's where you know, space agencies in the New
Speaker 2: Zealand Space Agency has a really important role to play
Speaker 2: and look great, if they want to come and work
Speaker 2: for us at rocket Lab, we've got hundreds of jobs opening,
Speaker 2: that'd be great. But equally well, if it inspires them
Speaker 2: to go into a mathematical career or in you know,
Speaker 2: computer science or whatever, then I think that's exactly what
Speaker 2: we need to be convincing our kids to can't do.
Speaker 1: Oh, there's absolutely a question that space is cool, everyone thinks.
Speaker 1: So looking to the future, what are you most excited
Speaker 1: about in the space industry and is there anything that
Speaker 1: you want to see rocket Lab doing? I guess you know,
Speaker 1: a man commission to Mars or reach for the stars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, so you know there's a couple of things there.
Speaker 2: So one, I'm very passionate about interplanetary and interplanetary science.
Speaker 2: So you know, we have two satellites that are headed
Speaker 2: to Mars at the the end of this year Vanessa
Speaker 2: to measure a whole lot of magnetic field information and
Speaker 2: data around around the Red planet. So you know, the
Speaker 2: findings of that are going to be not only just
Speaker 2: enormous to understand Mars, but also how you know, how
Speaker 2: how Mars ended up, how it was, which we can
Speaker 2: then use to help Earth. But those interplanetary missions are
Speaker 2: something pretty special and I love to do those. But
Speaker 2: as a as a as a as a kind of
Speaker 2: where we'll be at in the next sort of five
Speaker 2: to ten years and where we want to be. What
Speaker 2: we're trying to build here is a very unique end
Speaker 2: to end space company. So generally, you know, you're just
Speaker 2: a launch company, or you're just a satellite company, or
Speaker 2: sometimes you're just a services company. What we're trying to
Speaker 2: build here is something there where it's completely end to end.
Speaker 2: So a customer can come to us, or a government
Speaker 2: can come to us and say, you know, there's the
Speaker 2: only government can come to us and say, hey, we
Speaker 2: need to look for illegal fisheries over the sub Antarctic,
Speaker 2: and we just provide out of the service. They don't
Speaker 2: need to become world experts in satellite construction and operation
Speaker 2: and selecting launch vehicles and orbital mechanics. Nobody wants to
Speaker 2: do that work except the rocket geeks. Actually, all is
Speaker 2: a government in that sense. We'd care about is I
Speaker 2: want to see if there's a ship there or not,
Speaker 2: and that's ultimately where I think it all go.
Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Peter. That said, for this episode
Speaker 1: of the Front Page, you can read more about today's
Speaker 1: stories and extensive news coverage at zat Herald dot co
Speaker 1: dot z. The Front Page is produced by Ethan Seals
Speaker 1: with sound engineer Patty Fox. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to
Speaker 1: the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts,
Speaker 1: and tune in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.