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Speaker 1: So the government's plan is target is to have twenty

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Speaker 1: thousand fewer victims of violent crime by twenty thirty, but

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Speaker 1: the latest figures show that victimizations are going up. Luxon's

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Speaker 1: blaming the previous lot and it's also further proof that

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Speaker 1: the previous soft on crime approach has emboldened defenders and

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Speaker 1: created a crime wave that will take a much tougher

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Speaker 1: approach to stop. Duncan web is Labour's just as spokesperson.

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Speaker 1: He's with us this morning. Duncan, good morning, good morning.

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Speaker 2: When that line's not going forever, is that he's had

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Speaker 2: a pretty much a year now in then getting worse.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but you guys use that line for six years.

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Speaker 2: Well they had nine years in so they've got more

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Speaker 2: to an answer for. But the fact of the matter

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Speaker 2: is that this is tough on crime. It sounds good

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Speaker 2: and everyone wants a safe community and we should be

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Speaker 2: tough on violent criminals. People who are violent criminals should

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Speaker 2: be sentenced properly. But there's nothing new in this sentencing

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Speaker 2: change that we're seeing now.

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Speaker 1: Well, they're wanting to limit the discounts to forty percent.

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Speaker 1: What would be your number in terms of a discount

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Speaker 1: if you're a criminal, you're going through the courts. How

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Speaker 1: much is your maximum discount? Do you think?

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Speaker 2: Well, look, I look at what dudges do now, and

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Speaker 2: whenever they give a discount, particularly particularly a large one,

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Speaker 2: they want really good reasons. They want to show that

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Speaker 2: it's going to be manifestly unjust if they if they

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Speaker 2: imprison them for longer. And that's exactly the rule that

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Speaker 2: they're putting in. So, I mean, the judges have discretion

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Speaker 2: for a reason, and the reason is to take account

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Speaker 2: of exceptional cases. A forty percent discount in real life

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Speaker 2: is a very very large discount. Indeed, this isn't even

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Speaker 2: a bright line maximum. It's forty percent unless it would

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Speaker 2: be manifested now just to impose that set, in which

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Speaker 2: case you can get a great discount. So it's not

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Speaker 2: even a rule. So would you back then what's there already? Well,

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Speaker 2: it changes nothing, and it places more and more confusing

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Speaker 2: rules in the for the opposing sentences. So probably not.

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Speaker 1: Probably not okay, because are you going to support any

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Speaker 1: of their changes. I mean, when it comes to the

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Speaker 1: gang laws, for example, is there anything in there that

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Speaker 1: you say, yes, good idea will support you on that?

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Speaker 2: The gang laws are another one which are an absolute

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Speaker 2: dog's breakfast. It's pretty much unenforceable. The gang Insignia Dean,

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Speaker 2: the dispersal orders. They're going to serve notices on gangs

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Speaker 2: by email, the first time I've ever seen anything like that,

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Speaker 2: and they haven't even got their email increases. They have

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Speaker 2: to go up and ask nicely for them. This is

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Speaker 2: exactly what I mean. So don't government? Can you see

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Speaker 2: something the table?

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Speaker 1: Can you see though, why we are here? Can you

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Speaker 1: see why a government would come in and respond like this?

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Speaker 1: Try everything they can literally throw in the kitchen table,

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Speaker 1: at the kitchen sink at this because things have gotten

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Speaker 1: so bad under you guys, well they might.

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Speaker 2: As well throw the kitchen sink because as much evidence

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Speaker 2: to that helping as a rest for things like boot camps,

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Speaker 2: you know, and that's part of the point. We put

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Speaker 2: in some programs that were making great progress that they

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Speaker 2: were the circuit break of programs for young offenders. They

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Speaker 2: took half of that and added a boot camp to

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Speaker 2: it and said, look what we're doing now again, Yes,

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Speaker 2: we see that we want safer communities and over since

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Speaker 2: COVID there's been an increase in crime, and that increase

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Speaker 2: has continued. Yes, we agree we need to do things,

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Speaker 2: but doing things like just putting a quick coat of

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Speaker 2: paint over the Sentencing Act isn't doing anything. What we

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Speaker 2: need is better interventions, better alcohol and drug treatment, better

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Speaker 2: health interventions for people with mental health problems, and a

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Speaker 2: better reaction system.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well that all sounds lovely. Speaking of interventions, are

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Speaker 1: you is anyone planning an intervention on Chippy down on

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Speaker 1: twelve percent?

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Speaker 2: I hadn't seen that number. The look, we think he's

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Speaker 2: doing a great job.

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Speaker 1: So I'll tell you that the number that have had

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Speaker 1: the taxpayer Uni Caurier poll out his preferred PM down

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Speaker 1: six point one points to twelve point six.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well that's David Fower's pole and his polling methods

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Speaker 2: are a bit dodgies. But whatever the number, we think

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Speaker 2: he's doing a great job. He's out there, he's getting

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Speaker 2: around the country, he's telling our story and we think

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Speaker 2: he's doing a great job.

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Speaker 1: You're okay with them going over to the UK to

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Speaker 1: the Labor Party conference. Is that the place to be

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Speaker 1: to get crime down?

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Speaker 2: Oh? The Labor Party conference is going to look at

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Speaker 2: a party that won and got some new ideas and

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Speaker 2: doing different things and we want to see how they

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Speaker 2: did it. I think it's a really good all.

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Speaker 1: Right, Duncan, thank you very much for coming on the

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Speaker 1: show and getting up early. Really appreciate your time at

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Speaker 1: Duncan Web is Labour's Justice spokesperson.

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Speaker 2: For more from News Talks the b listen.

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Speaker 1: Live on air or online, and keep our shows with

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