1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,547 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:11,747 Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZB. 3 00:00:12,627 --> 00:00:14,987 Speaker 2: Ollaby's and the Lions clash in the third and final 4 00:00:15,027 --> 00:00:18,467 Speaker 2: test of their series in Sydney tonight. Australian loose forward 5 00:00:18,507 --> 00:00:22,027 Speaker 2: Carlo Tazzano found himself the center of attention last weekend 6 00:00:22,307 --> 00:00:24,547 Speaker 2: when he was cleaned out by Jack Morgan in the 7 00:00:24,547 --> 00:00:26,787 Speaker 2: final ruck of the game, which of course led to 8 00:00:26,827 --> 00:00:30,787 Speaker 2: the Lions winning try. Controversy raged about whether the cleanout 9 00:00:30,867 --> 00:00:34,507 Speaker 2: was legal, and Carlo Tazzano himself copped a lot of 10 00:00:34,507 --> 00:00:39,067 Speaker 2: blowback for what many thought was a theatrical reaction to 11 00:00:39,147 --> 00:00:42,587 Speaker 2: the contact he received from Jack Morgan. Ollaby's coach Joe 12 00:00:42,667 --> 00:00:46,787 Speaker 2: Schmidt said on Thursday that Tazano had copped a lot 13 00:00:46,827 --> 00:00:49,787 Speaker 2: of online abuse and along with the effects of the 14 00:00:49,827 --> 00:00:52,987 Speaker 2: blow to his neck, would sit the third test out. 15 00:00:53,507 --> 00:00:57,907 Speaker 2: Let's bring in vastly experienced and highly regarded performance coach 16 00:00:58,107 --> 00:01:01,267 Speaker 2: Aaron walshoes worked with the Chiefs, with the Newcastle Knights, 17 00:01:01,627 --> 00:01:04,867 Speaker 2: with the Scotland rugby team and many others. Aaron, thanks 18 00:01:04,907 --> 00:01:08,347 Speaker 2: for lending us your experts. It feels to me as 19 00:01:08,347 --> 00:01:12,107 Speaker 2: though Joe Schmitt is taking Carlo Tazano out of the 20 00:01:12,147 --> 00:01:14,907 Speaker 2: spotlight here because of the week he's head in terms 21 00:01:15,347 --> 00:01:18,867 Speaker 2: of the social media blowback. Is this the right move 22 00:01:18,947 --> 00:01:19,707 Speaker 2: by Joe Schmitt? 23 00:01:20,507 --> 00:01:23,667 Speaker 3: Yes? It's an interesting one, isn't it? Because you know, 24 00:01:23,707 --> 00:01:26,227 Speaker 3: we now live in a day of age, a day 25 00:01:26,227 --> 00:01:29,027 Speaker 3: of age where you think, you know, we look back 26 00:01:29,107 --> 00:01:31,547 Speaker 3: ten fifteen years ago when these things sort of happen 27 00:01:31,707 --> 00:01:33,867 Speaker 3: and the athletes is able to crack onto it. There 28 00:01:33,907 --> 00:01:37,027 Speaker 3: might be a couple of newspaper articles. But you know, 29 00:01:37,547 --> 00:01:39,427 Speaker 3: I think in some senses, you know, if you're a 30 00:01:39,467 --> 00:01:42,987 Speaker 3: player and you're feeling this, and you know your coach 31 00:01:43,027 --> 00:01:47,307 Speaker 3: shows that amount of care to protect the person over 32 00:01:47,307 --> 00:01:49,747 Speaker 3: the performance, you know, I think there's a lot to 33 00:01:49,787 --> 00:01:51,867 Speaker 3: be said by the way that Joe is actually approaching it. 34 00:01:52,347 --> 00:01:55,867 Speaker 2: Do you think Carlo Tazano would have wanted to play tonight? 35 00:01:57,107 --> 00:01:58,987 Speaker 3: So hard to say, isn't it, mate? Unless you're in 36 00:01:59,027 --> 00:02:02,107 Speaker 3: there like one, you know, we're not sure of you know, 37 00:02:02,187 --> 00:02:07,027 Speaker 3: the injury complications from a collision like that. But also 38 00:02:07,267 --> 00:02:10,387 Speaker 3: I imagine, you know, highly experienced operator and Joe that 39 00:02:10,467 --> 00:02:12,627 Speaker 3: they would have had these conversations during the week and 40 00:02:12,667 --> 00:02:15,107 Speaker 3: he may have picked up something and you know, often 41 00:02:15,147 --> 00:02:17,467 Speaker 3: the players will you know, they always want to play, 42 00:02:17,467 --> 00:02:19,987 Speaker 3: they always want to put their best foot forward. And 43 00:02:20,347 --> 00:02:22,667 Speaker 3: you know he may have picked up something during the week, 44 00:02:22,747 --> 00:02:25,627 Speaker 3: and you know in his mood or the way things 45 00:02:25,667 --> 00:02:28,227 Speaker 3: are being processed, that he just might thought, hey, I 46 00:02:28,267 --> 00:02:29,907 Speaker 3: need to look after this young fully. He's got a 47 00:02:29,947 --> 00:02:32,227 Speaker 3: long career ahead of him, he's a good player, and 48 00:02:32,307 --> 00:02:34,067 Speaker 3: it might be just the right thing to do at 49 00:02:34,067 --> 00:02:34,987 Speaker 3: this point of his career. 50 00:02:35,467 --> 00:02:38,427 Speaker 2: As you say, Aaron, we're operating in a completely different 51 00:02:38,507 --> 00:02:42,987 Speaker 2: environment than we were even ten fifteen years ago. Is 52 00:02:43,027 --> 00:02:48,587 Speaker 2: it possible for a player to completely ignore online noise. 53 00:02:49,947 --> 00:02:53,587 Speaker 3: It's an interesting one, mate, because I think, as you're aware, 54 00:02:54,187 --> 00:02:56,947 Speaker 3: you know, a lot of their social media presence just 55 00:02:57,107 --> 00:02:59,467 Speaker 3: isn't about them sharing their life or about their performance. 56 00:02:59,467 --> 00:03:03,627 Speaker 3: They of commercial obligations. So it's very easy to say 57 00:03:03,667 --> 00:03:05,907 Speaker 3: I just you know, don't have a presence, You don't 58 00:03:05,947 --> 00:03:07,587 Speaker 3: have to look for everything, don't care for it. But 59 00:03:08,067 --> 00:03:09,827 Speaker 3: you know that they may have to post a certain 60 00:03:09,907 --> 00:03:11,987 Speaker 3: number of times a week to meet you know, either 61 00:03:12,027 --> 00:03:17,507 Speaker 3: the team sponsors or their personal sponsors. There is you know, 62 00:03:17,507 --> 00:03:19,027 Speaker 3: I know a couple of athletes that I've worked with 63 00:03:19,067 --> 00:03:22,107 Speaker 3: over the years who have a couple of phones and 64 00:03:22,787 --> 00:03:24,387 Speaker 3: you know, they'll just go to one of their phones 65 00:03:24,387 --> 00:03:26,347 Speaker 3: two or three days out after a game, and maybe 66 00:03:26,347 --> 00:03:28,707 Speaker 3: a day out after a game, where they'll just have 67 00:03:28,787 --> 00:03:30,947 Speaker 3: their loved ones, their close family, and there'll be no 68 00:03:31,027 --> 00:03:33,667 Speaker 3: social media on it, just so they create, you know, 69 00:03:33,667 --> 00:03:38,227 Speaker 3: a little bit of separation, you know, fom building into 70 00:03:38,227 --> 00:03:40,547 Speaker 3: the game one and not having those voices sort of 71 00:03:41,227 --> 00:03:45,307 Speaker 3: percolating in their head. And also secondly just about the process. 72 00:03:45,347 --> 00:03:46,787 Speaker 3: I think, I think what you got to realize with 73 00:03:46,867 --> 00:03:51,867 Speaker 3: players is I sort of call it the microscope and telescope. 74 00:03:51,907 --> 00:03:53,707 Speaker 3: You know, the first twenty four hours after a game, 75 00:03:53,707 --> 00:03:57,027 Speaker 3: they're in microscope mode, which is, you know, everything's bigger, 76 00:03:57,147 --> 00:04:01,587 Speaker 3: everything feels bigger. They're replaying, rehashing moments of the game. 77 00:04:01,667 --> 00:04:04,307 Speaker 3: But you know, as they get further away from the performance, 78 00:04:04,307 --> 00:04:07,507 Speaker 3: they're able to step back, have prospective of look at 79 00:04:07,547 --> 00:04:09,667 Speaker 3: things and then you know, probably get a bit of 80 00:04:09,707 --> 00:04:12,267 Speaker 3: a clearer evaluation of how their performance went. 81 00:04:12,707 --> 00:04:14,907 Speaker 2: That's a that's a terrific way of looking at it. 82 00:04:14,947 --> 00:04:17,427 Speaker 2: Often the bigger impact is on the family of the 83 00:04:17,467 --> 00:04:19,787 Speaker 2: players who find themselves in the spotlight. They might not 84 00:04:19,827 --> 00:04:23,427 Speaker 2: have two phones, you know, they might not be able 85 00:04:23,467 --> 00:04:25,827 Speaker 2: to avoid the stuff that's being said about their son, 86 00:04:26,027 --> 00:04:31,467 Speaker 2: their brother. How should family of high profile athletes deal 87 00:04:31,507 --> 00:04:32,267 Speaker 2: with this sort of thing? 88 00:04:33,387 --> 00:04:35,827 Speaker 3: You know, it's one of those ones where, you know, 89 00:04:35,867 --> 00:04:37,147 Speaker 3: I think it's going to be a little bit different 90 00:04:37,147 --> 00:04:39,347 Speaker 3: for everyone. I know, even you know and the teams 91 00:04:39,347 --> 00:04:41,427 Speaker 3: that I work with. You get close to the players, 92 00:04:41,467 --> 00:04:44,107 Speaker 3: they become I wouldn't say like family, but they become 93 00:04:44,147 --> 00:04:46,827 Speaker 3: people you care about deeply, and you know, you just 94 00:04:46,867 --> 00:04:48,947 Speaker 3: got to it's easier to send them done. You've got 95 00:04:48,987 --> 00:04:51,467 Speaker 3: to stay away, and you know, I think you know, 96 00:04:51,627 --> 00:04:54,107 Speaker 3: one of the things that you know, Clayton McMillan, that 97 00:04:54,147 --> 00:04:55,827 Speaker 3: the chiefs used to talk about is, you know, you 98 00:04:55,867 --> 00:04:58,547 Speaker 3: can't just look at social media when you're going well 99 00:04:58,787 --> 00:05:01,827 Speaker 3: and then avoid it when you're going poorly. You know, 100 00:05:01,667 --> 00:05:04,307 Speaker 3: you know, now you know you're going to take both 101 00:05:04,347 --> 00:05:06,027 Speaker 3: sides of it. So if you want to engage, there's 102 00:05:06,027 --> 00:05:08,227 Speaker 3: going to be that we have to deal with the criticism. 103 00:05:08,347 --> 00:05:10,187 Speaker 3: But I you know, you hear it. It sounds a bit 104 00:05:10,187 --> 00:05:11,987 Speaker 3: of a cliche, but I don't really think it is. 105 00:05:11,987 --> 00:05:15,947 Speaker 3: Is that these players and these athletes will be much 106 00:05:16,027 --> 00:05:18,707 Speaker 3: harder critics on their own performance than anyone in the public. 107 00:05:19,027 --> 00:05:22,467 Speaker 2: Indeed, do you think players are on the whole when 108 00:05:22,507 --> 00:05:25,147 Speaker 2: they've had a good game, like to get online to 109 00:05:25,147 --> 00:05:26,587 Speaker 2: see what people are saying about them. 110 00:05:27,547 --> 00:05:31,987 Speaker 3: Are they humans? I probably suspect so would. It's probably 111 00:05:31,987 --> 00:05:34,107 Speaker 3: like after if you do an absolute bolch of a show, 112 00:05:34,187 --> 00:05:35,787 Speaker 3: you're probably looking at the common. 113 00:05:35,627 --> 00:05:37,667 Speaker 2: Yeah, that doesn't have it very often. That doesn't have 114 00:05:37,747 --> 00:05:39,227 Speaker 2: it very often. But no, I take your point. 115 00:05:40,467 --> 00:05:41,987 Speaker 3: If you have a shock, you sort of want to 116 00:05:42,027 --> 00:05:45,387 Speaker 3: stay away. I think I think it's natural human instinct. 117 00:05:45,427 --> 00:05:47,987 Speaker 3: We all want to feel praised, don't we all? Don't 118 00:05:48,027 --> 00:05:49,787 Speaker 3: we all want to feel valued. We all want to 119 00:05:49,787 --> 00:05:52,907 Speaker 3: feel like, you know, our work is acknowledged. So I think, 120 00:05:52,987 --> 00:05:55,147 Speaker 3: you know, there's part of their human side that would 121 00:05:55,147 --> 00:05:59,547 Speaker 3: be naturally looking for, you know, whether it's affirmation or 122 00:05:59,547 --> 00:06:01,827 Speaker 3: support or whatever it is. I think, yeah, it's probably 123 00:06:01,827 --> 00:06:02,427 Speaker 3: pretty common. 124 00:06:02,907 --> 00:06:06,907 Speaker 2: How much has the care of players improved, you know 125 00:06:07,027 --> 00:06:10,667 Speaker 2: in recent times, Aaron, you know, offer you look back 126 00:06:10,707 --> 00:06:12,827 Speaker 2: and in the old days, as they say, actually just 127 00:06:12,867 --> 00:06:14,867 Speaker 2: you know, toughen up and get out there. Care for 128 00:06:15,067 --> 00:06:18,227 Speaker 2: players is that something which has improved in recent times? 129 00:06:18,947 --> 00:06:22,107 Speaker 3: Yeah? I reckon it's completely different right now. I think 130 00:06:22,107 --> 00:06:26,467 Speaker 3: it's one that the athletes. It's a wider question actually, 131 00:06:26,547 --> 00:06:29,867 Speaker 3: because you know, the athletes now are much more aware 132 00:06:29,907 --> 00:06:34,387 Speaker 3: of their own mental and emotional status. I think, you 133 00:06:34,427 --> 00:06:37,147 Speaker 3: know that one of the positives of social media or 134 00:06:37,307 --> 00:06:38,747 Speaker 3: you know, the world we live in now is people 135 00:06:38,747 --> 00:06:42,067 Speaker 3: aren't really afraid. And our conversations around mental health as 136 00:06:42,107 --> 00:06:45,467 Speaker 3: a society has given permission for people to speak about 137 00:06:45,467 --> 00:06:48,387 Speaker 3: how they feel. And so, you know, I think a 138 00:06:48,387 --> 00:06:50,547 Speaker 3: lot of it was, you know, back in the day 139 00:06:50,547 --> 00:06:52,187 Speaker 3: when I was growing up and you were growing up. 140 00:06:52,227 --> 00:06:53,787 Speaker 3: I don't know if we had the tools or we 141 00:06:53,827 --> 00:06:56,867 Speaker 3: had the experts around us to be able to process that. 142 00:06:57,627 --> 00:07:00,347 Speaker 3: And now I think every coach who's dealing with these 143 00:07:00,347 --> 00:07:02,627 Speaker 3: young athletes they have to be equipped and they have 144 00:07:02,707 --> 00:07:05,347 Speaker 3: to be aware that, you know, you have to care 145 00:07:05,427 --> 00:07:07,547 Speaker 3: for the person to get the best out of the performer, 146 00:07:08,387 --> 00:07:11,587 Speaker 3: and our players are so sensitive. If they don't feel 147 00:07:11,627 --> 00:07:13,307 Speaker 3: cared for it, but they don't feel like they belong, 148 00:07:13,387 --> 00:07:16,747 Speaker 3: if they don't feel like people value them beyond what 149 00:07:16,747 --> 00:07:20,427 Speaker 3: they can just do on a field, then you're not 150 00:07:20,427 --> 00:07:21,907 Speaker 3: going to get the best out of them. So I 151 00:07:21,907 --> 00:07:26,267 Speaker 3: think it's actually a competitive advantage now to create environments 152 00:07:26,267 --> 00:07:27,587 Speaker 3: where we actually care for people. 153 00:07:28,707 --> 00:07:32,107 Speaker 2: Yeah, that'd be a basic Yeah, absolutely, right. Just to 154 00:07:32,107 --> 00:07:35,067 Speaker 2: finish tonight is what is commonly termed a dead rubber. 155 00:07:35,227 --> 00:07:37,827 Speaker 2: The series is won by the Lions. Tonight's material as 156 00:07:37,827 --> 00:07:41,347 Speaker 2: far as that is concerned. So out challenging or not, 157 00:07:42,187 --> 00:07:44,627 Speaker 2: is it to get players up for games like this? 158 00:07:45,747 --> 00:07:47,827 Speaker 3: I think you've got to. You've got to be pretty 159 00:07:47,867 --> 00:07:50,707 Speaker 3: savvy about how you do it, you know, Like I 160 00:07:50,707 --> 00:07:54,707 Speaker 3: think good teams are driven externally. So if they're up 161 00:07:54,747 --> 00:07:56,467 Speaker 3: for a big game, and you know, we face this 162 00:07:56,507 --> 00:07:58,027 Speaker 3: all the time, and I wasn't super rugby, you know, 163 00:07:58,067 --> 00:08:01,027 Speaker 3: you got it's not hard to motivate guys for Blues 164 00:08:01,107 --> 00:08:02,827 Speaker 3: or Crusaders. But what if you play one of the 165 00:08:02,827 --> 00:08:04,827 Speaker 3: other teams that you know, on paper you should have 166 00:08:04,827 --> 00:08:08,027 Speaker 3: a pretty good chance of defeating, Well, then you've got 167 00:08:08,027 --> 00:08:10,787 Speaker 3: to go much more internal, which is about you know, 168 00:08:10,827 --> 00:08:13,827 Speaker 3: we've got to we've got to perform, not motivated by 169 00:08:13,867 --> 00:08:17,707 Speaker 3: the circumstance, but motivated by a desire to actually put 170 00:08:17,707 --> 00:08:20,347 Speaker 3: out a good performance and to be true to ourselves 171 00:08:20,387 --> 00:08:22,147 Speaker 3: and to hold to our values and to make sure 172 00:08:22,187 --> 00:08:25,627 Speaker 3: our standards are high. And you know, I think both 173 00:08:25,947 --> 00:08:28,587 Speaker 3: you know, from my experience of working in competitions, both 174 00:08:28,627 --> 00:08:31,667 Speaker 3: Andy Farrell when we played them in Ireland, and you know, 175 00:08:31,787 --> 00:08:33,947 Speaker 3: I think Joe Smith, and you know, I don't think 176 00:08:33,987 --> 00:08:35,707 Speaker 3: there'll be any problem with that. I think there's so 177 00:08:35,867 --> 00:08:38,347 Speaker 3: much on the line as far as you know, we 178 00:08:38,387 --> 00:08:40,987 Speaker 3: want to perform, to represent the teams, we want to 179 00:08:41,027 --> 00:08:43,147 Speaker 3: play for each other, We want to make sure our 180 00:08:43,187 --> 00:08:45,827 Speaker 3: fans are proud of what we put out there today. 181 00:08:45,987 --> 00:08:48,547 Speaker 3: So I don't think there'll be any issue around getting 182 00:08:48,587 --> 00:08:49,307 Speaker 3: up for a game like this. 183 00:08:50,027 --> 00:08:52,627 Speaker 2: Brilliant insight as always, Erin, Thanks so much for joining 184 00:08:52,667 --> 00:08:54,227 Speaker 2: us this afternoon, Mate, really appreciate it. 185 00:08:54,587 --> 00:08:56,347 Speaker 3: Yep, no problem, make anytime. 186 00:08:56,067 --> 00:08:59,547 Speaker 2: To twenty one Thanks Aaron Aaron Walsh their mental skills 187 00:08:59,587 --> 00:09:00,747 Speaker 2: and performance code. 188 00:09:01,187 --> 00:09:04,387 Speaker 1: For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Faine, listen live 189 00:09:04,507 --> 00:09:07,787 Speaker 1: to News Talk z B Weekend's from midday, or follow 190 00:09:07,827 --> 00:09:09,427 Speaker 1: the podcast on iHeartRadio