WEBVTT - Rugby Direct - Episode 174 0:00:09.093 --> 0:00:11.973 You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B. 0:00:12.373 --> 0:00:16.173 Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio, 0:00:19.253 --> 0:00:21.013 Strike Down the Middle. 0:00:20.733 --> 0:00:24.373 Of Dry, Dicky Scy try. 0:00:28.693 --> 0:00:33.213 Get inside the game from every angle. It's Rugby Direct 0:00:33.333 --> 0:00:37.053 with Elliot Smith and Leam Napier powered by News Talks EDB. 0:00:37.453 --> 0:00:42.733 Welcome into Rugby Direct powered by Forklift Solutions. Back again 0:00:42.933 --> 0:00:45.053 as we count down to the first test of the 0:00:45.133 --> 0:00:48.573 Rugby Championship. First weekend of the Rugby Championship and from 0:00:48.573 --> 0:00:51.613 a New Zealand perspective, the All Blacks in action against 0:00:51.773 --> 0:00:56.053 Argentina ten past nine on Sunday morning in called Dobe. 0:00:56.093 --> 0:00:57.893 You can hear it live on News Talks ab Gold 0:00:57.893 --> 0:01:01.013 Sport and iHeartRadio. But before we get into that big 0:01:01.053 --> 0:01:04.573 welcome into Liam Napier as always, greetings, great to be 0:01:04.613 --> 0:01:06.973 here earlier yep, and we counting down obviously to that 0:01:07.013 --> 0:01:09.213 test mat for some big news in the back end 0:01:09.253 --> 0:01:13.053 of last week that Richie Muwong is returning to New 0:01:13.133 --> 0:01:17.773 Zealand rugby in more eleven months time July twenty twenty 0:01:17.773 --> 0:01:21.493 six through to December twenty twenty seven. I mean this 0:01:21.533 --> 0:01:23.733 has been in the background for quite some time. Even 0:01:24.053 --> 0:01:26.933 since he left. Basically it was trying to get him 0:01:26.973 --> 0:01:29.613 back to New Zealand Rugby. They finally managed to get 0:01:29.653 --> 0:01:31.893 his signature on the line for an eighteen month deal. 0:01:32.173 --> 0:01:34.453 It means he'll play at the twenty twenty seven Rugby 0:01:34.493 --> 0:01:38.133 World Cup, if selected and if fit. I guess your 0:01:38.133 --> 0:01:39.013 reaction to that news. 0:01:39.013 --> 0:01:42.053 First and foremost, it's not a surprise, as Elliott, I 0:01:42.093 --> 0:01:44.413 think it was always a case of when, not if 0:01:44.933 --> 0:01:48.613 Richie Muwanga would return home. It's probably a year later 0:01:48.653 --> 0:01:50.853 than everyone anticipated. 0:01:51.573 --> 0:01:53.653 Certainly there was a. 0:01:53.013 --> 0:01:56.493 Widespread expectation that he would cut short that deal that 0:01:56.613 --> 0:02:02.693 didn't eventuate. New Zealand Rugby ends Toshiba couldn't agree financial terms, 0:02:02.773 --> 0:02:07.013 but he is coming home eighteen months. It's an interesting 0:02:07.853 --> 0:02:12.893 length of contract. I guess it's does mean he's eligible 0:02:12.893 --> 0:02:16.293 for the World Cup, as you mentioned, but it's a 0:02:16.293 --> 0:02:18.173 bit of a hit and run mission, isn't It allows 0:02:18.213 --> 0:02:21.693 him to potentially go back to Japan and kash and 0:02:21.773 --> 0:02:26.213 again there and it's going to be a very interesting 0:02:26.293 --> 0:02:30.853 dynamic for Scott Robinson to manage because Boden Barrett is 0:02:31.053 --> 0:02:35.453 taking a claim as the All Blacks starting first choice. 0:02:35.493 --> 0:02:39.893 Ten Damien McKenzie is there. You've got Reuben Love and 0:02:40.333 --> 0:02:43.133 Stephen Peter Fetter and behind them. But Rich mu Wonga 0:02:43.773 --> 0:02:46.533 is a world class ten. We haven't seen him on 0:02:46.533 --> 0:02:50.133 the international stage for a couple of years, but Robinson 0:02:50.133 --> 0:02:52.653 has always wanted him, hasn't he And now he will 0:02:52.653 --> 0:02:56.053 get him back. How does he manage that scenario? 0:02:56.253 --> 0:02:58.453 Well, I has been looking in the background and you know, 0:02:58.493 --> 0:03:01.133 Boden Barrett and Damien McKenzie aren't stupid. They would know 0:03:01.253 --> 0:03:05.293 that this was a likely possibility for twenty twenty seven 0:03:05.373 --> 0:03:08.653 and that's you know, it's not really a surprise. I 0:03:08.653 --> 0:03:11.493 don't think, you know, they can't have been thinking that 0:03:12.253 --> 0:03:14.093 this is going to be straightforward that they're the one 0:03:14.133 --> 0:03:17.013 two for the World Cup. Yup, There's going to be 0:03:17.013 --> 0:03:19.853 some things to manage, but perhaps no more than other players. 0:03:19.893 --> 0:03:24.013 It's just been a higher profile inclusion. And you know, 0:03:24.013 --> 0:03:26.813 Boden Barrett himself has come back from playing in Japan, 0:03:27.213 --> 0:03:29.853 hasn't missed much All Black rugby because of that. But 0:03:29.893 --> 0:03:31.853 you know t J. Petinara has come back in There's 0:03:31.893 --> 0:03:34.973 been precedent before and at some point later in the 0:03:35.013 --> 0:03:37.493 year lestifying a Nuoku will come back in. So it's 0:03:37.533 --> 0:03:39.893 because I think the ten is such a pervotal role 0:03:40.013 --> 0:03:43.053 that everyone goes house is going to be balanced. But 0:03:43.173 --> 0:03:46.933 to this point in time, hard to argue that Barrett 0:03:46.973 --> 0:03:50.733 or Mackenzie have gone there. You know, the laydown Missie 0:03:50.813 --> 0:03:52.933 option to start at ten for the All Blacks right 0:03:52.973 --> 0:03:56.773 through the cycle. Mackenzie had his opportunities last year. Now 0:03:56.893 --> 0:03:59.333 Boden Barrett is the first choice in the minds of 0:03:59.373 --> 0:04:02.693 that and suspect Richie Wong will get a run next year. 0:04:02.733 --> 0:04:06.053 So over the next eighteen months or thereabouts, there's probably 0:04:06.093 --> 0:04:08.253 going to be a lot of test matches for these 0:04:08.533 --> 0:04:10.853 players to show they wear and by the time you 0:04:10.893 --> 0:04:13.653 get to August September whenever it is, twenty twenty seven, 0:04:14.053 --> 0:04:15.973 Bill Blacks will have an idea of their pecking order. 0:04:16.373 --> 0:04:18.773 Yeah, I think Boden Barrett hasn't fully convinced yet, but 0:04:18.813 --> 0:04:22.653 he's certainly building a case, isn't he that he has 0:04:23.053 --> 0:04:27.013 come again as a test verse five? He is showing 0:04:27.053 --> 0:04:33.213 that game control along with the moments of brilliance. But yeah, 0:04:33.293 --> 0:04:37.653 I just this's going to be some personalities to manage 0:04:37.973 --> 0:04:40.773 and some big selection calls because you bring a guy 0:04:40.893 --> 0:04:44.013 like Richie Muwonga an out and out competitor, a world 0:04:44.053 --> 0:04:46.253 class player. He's not going to want to sit on 0:04:46.253 --> 0:04:48.373 the bench. He's going to want to start. You want 0:04:48.373 --> 0:04:52.213 all the best players available for the All Blacks. But yeah, 0:04:52.253 --> 0:04:55.253 it's going to be a tricky dynamic for Robertson to 0:04:55.253 --> 0:04:59.493 manage because he has invested in Bowden, probably told him 0:04:59.533 --> 0:05:01.733 he's his guy. He's told Damien he's right there and 0:05:01.733 --> 0:05:03.973 he's going to get his chance. And then suddenly Richie's 0:05:04.053 --> 0:05:08.933 back and he's got eighteen months to contest that starting 0:05:08.973 --> 0:05:12.413 ten Jersey. So and as you mentioned, there are other 0:05:12.493 --> 0:05:15.733 dynamics that play there, listifying and look who could feasibly 0:05:15.813 --> 0:05:21.933 push Rikawani out of the first choice squad. So how 0:05:22.093 --> 0:05:29.533 Robertson manages those selection dynamics can have a destabilizing effect 0:05:29.533 --> 0:05:31.053 on a squad potentially could do. 0:05:31.173 --> 0:05:34.013 But there's no guarantee that by twenty twenty seven McKenzie 0:05:34.013 --> 0:05:36.893 and Barretts or more longer for that exactly, for that matter, 0:05:37.293 --> 0:05:39.333 in that All Blacks twenty twenty seven squad. You know, 0:05:39.533 --> 0:05:41.733 players come in and out of times. You're not guaranteed 0:05:41.733 --> 0:05:45.573 in All Blacks Jersey, So you know us you've got 0:05:45.573 --> 0:05:47.693 to manage people that are in your squad. But there's 0:05:47.693 --> 0:05:50.733 also a requirement to do what's best for the All 0:05:50.733 --> 0:05:52.453 Blacks and the All Blacks Jersey. And if that is 0:05:52.493 --> 0:05:55.213 selecting Richie Moonger because he's the best available ten in 0:05:55.333 --> 0:05:57.613 Robertson's mind, then I think he has to go do it. 0:05:57.653 --> 0:06:01.973 So what what shaped does Muwanga come back in? Because 0:06:02.013 --> 0:06:06.373 generally Jordi Barrett's the exception and he tellingly didn't go 0:06:06.413 --> 0:06:11.293 to Japan. He went to let Leinster. Muanga has led 0:06:11.733 --> 0:06:15.493 to Shepard to back to back League One titles in 0:06:15.573 --> 0:06:18.413 Japan and the footage you see of him as they're 0:06:18.413 --> 0:06:23.253 still carving up playing well, but most, if not all 0:06:23.253 --> 0:06:25.333 players that have come back from Japan take a while 0:06:25.373 --> 0:06:27.573 to find their feet. It's a different style of rugby. 0:06:27.813 --> 0:06:31.293 It's not at test rugby level. Eighteen months isn't a 0:06:31.373 --> 0:06:33.573 huge amount of time and he's not just going to 0:06:33.613 --> 0:06:38.533 be starting every game. What sort of form shape do 0:06:38.573 --> 0:06:39.613 you expect him to come back in. 0:06:39.693 --> 0:06:42.973 Well, two years driving to Shuba and two titles there 0:06:43.013 --> 0:06:44.733 is what he's been able to deliver there, and yeah, 0:06:44.773 --> 0:06:47.133 it's probably not at the same level of rugby. But 0:06:47.493 --> 0:06:50.893 I think the Japanese competition is probably because it's out 0:06:50.933 --> 0:06:54.413 of sight, out of mind, doesn't get the perhaps credit 0:06:54.453 --> 0:06:57.013 it deserves. It has evolved into a much better competition 0:06:57.053 --> 0:06:59.653 than it was five ten years ago. It's a lot tighter, 0:07:00.293 --> 0:07:02.973 there's not as many blowouts than there has been before. 0:07:03.053 --> 0:07:05.853 So yep, there'll be a major adjustment required from Moong 0:07:06.013 --> 0:07:07.853 coming back to New Zealand rugby. But he's been in 0:07:07.893 --> 0:07:09.853 the drivers seat and he's led them to two titles, 0:07:09.853 --> 0:07:12.773 so he's clearly got that golden touch that has continued 0:07:12.813 --> 0:07:15.213 at the Crusaders. There's a lot of factors at played 0:07:15.213 --> 0:07:16.893 that are going to have to be managed and whether 0:07:16.933 --> 0:07:18.693 he comes back in it and straight for his choice, so 0:07:18.733 --> 0:07:20.853 whether he has to go and play some tour games, 0:07:20.853 --> 0:07:23.213 whatever it might be, it's gonna be fascinating, as you said, 0:07:23.213 --> 0:07:24.053 to see arm folds. 0:07:24.173 --> 0:07:25.573 It is, and there's going to be a number of 0:07:25.733 --> 0:07:30.293 comings and goings because next year Antonina Brown, Rico Awani 0:07:30.453 --> 0:07:34.933 and Artie Severa or skipping Super Rugby, they will come 0:07:34.973 --> 0:07:38.293 back and be available for the All Blacks. But and 0:07:38.333 --> 0:07:42.973 then Richie comes back, maybe Shannon Frazell as well, So look, 0:07:43.013 --> 0:07:45.733 you get all those guys back on deck at strengthens 0:07:45.773 --> 0:07:46.773 the All Blacks, doesn't. 0:07:46.533 --> 0:07:48.973 It It does, indeed a couple of other we but 0:07:49.253 --> 0:07:51.573 some pieces doing the rounds and super Rugby. You've got 0:07:51.573 --> 0:07:54.493 some whispers or some news to report to us on 0:07:54.573 --> 0:07:55.213 Rugby Direct. 0:07:55.573 --> 0:07:57.853 Yeah, if he whispers Eliot, it sounds like Angus Tartovel 0:07:57.893 --> 0:08:03.053 potentially shifting from the Blues to the Highlanders form All 0:08:03.053 --> 0:08:07.333 Blacks been well traveled around the traps. I guess he's 0:08:07.733 --> 0:08:10.813 stuck behind. And Josh for Stur is a big mover 0:08:10.893 --> 0:08:13.373 at the Blues and offered to hing a fuss. He's 0:08:13.373 --> 0:08:15.773 meant to be back next year. That's yet to be confirmed, 0:08:15.773 --> 0:08:17.773 but that's what I'm hearing, And apparently the Highland is 0:08:17.813 --> 0:08:21.573 making a big play for Josh Jacob. Jacob has contracted 0:08:21.573 --> 0:08:26.133 to the Chiefs in twenty twenty six. But for me, 0:08:26.293 --> 0:08:28.293 I don't know how what you'll read on this is, 0:08:28.333 --> 0:08:31.973 but he's a wasted talent at the Chiefs. He's barely 0:08:32.093 --> 0:08:35.653 had many starts playing back up to McKenzie. The Hearland 0:08:35.693 --> 0:08:38.053 is a crying out for a ten. Jacob's got a 0:08:38.093 --> 0:08:43.333 young family. But in my mind it was a wrong decision, 0:08:43.453 --> 0:08:45.413 or however you want to describe it, to turn down 0:08:45.453 --> 0:08:47.613 the Crusaders when they approached him a couple of years ago. 0:08:47.693 --> 0:08:50.933 He could have had opportunities there. You need to be 0:08:50.933 --> 0:08:54.693 playing rugby. He's started a lot for the All Blacks fifteen, 0:08:54.773 --> 0:08:58.853 so he's on that radar, but his talents, his progression 0:08:59.013 --> 0:09:04.013 has stagnated. So Brady McAllister moved from the Crusaders to 0:09:04.053 --> 0:09:04.893 the Chiefs. 0:09:04.573 --> 0:09:05.893 And he had a year to go on his contract 0:09:05.973 --> 0:09:07.693 is where he got a early release from the Crusaders. 0:09:07.693 --> 0:09:08.053 That's right. 0:09:08.333 --> 0:09:11.613 It's not common, but it's not without precedent, and it 0:09:11.693 --> 0:09:13.453 is good to be talking about these sort of stories 0:09:13.453 --> 0:09:16.413 because super rogue we tends to die out of season, 0:09:17.173 --> 0:09:20.813 so interesting to see where those guys end up. But 0:09:21.013 --> 0:09:23.573 Heland is clearly on a big recruitment drive, having signed 0:09:23.613 --> 0:09:28.053 David Kibwa, was defense coach. Jamie Joseph is expected to 0:09:28.133 --> 0:09:31.253 lead their All Blacks fifteen. So could get in Jacob's 0:09:31.253 --> 0:09:32.893 ear and try and convince him could do. 0:09:33.253 --> 0:09:36.853 And I'm also hearing Olie mathis poised to sign for 0:09:36.893 --> 0:09:38.973 the Crusaders. I know he's been asked about it in 0:09:39.053 --> 0:09:41.613 recent weeks and has sort of played it down, but 0:09:41.613 --> 0:09:44.853 my understanding is that he will be at the Crusaders. Well, 0:09:44.973 --> 0:09:47.333 one of the young, real young talents of New Zealand rugby. 0:09:47.173 --> 0:09:52.333 Very promising, undoubtedly shining again for Wakatur the other nights, 0:09:53.253 --> 0:09:57.533 broad range of skills. Doesn't he for a loose forwards? Yeah? 0:09:57.533 --> 0:09:59.933 I think those in Chiefs country would be pretty pretty 0:09:59.973 --> 0:10:00.653 pissed about that. 0:10:00.693 --> 0:10:01.933 But a good get for the Casaders. 0:10:02.013 --> 0:10:03.813 Yeah, and the Crusade mean the Chiefs have now got 0:10:03.973 --> 0:10:05.533 to get another loose FORWD in the All Blacks and 0:10:05.573 --> 0:10:07.773 the form Simon Parker, so it's pathway a little bit 0:10:07.773 --> 0:10:09.533 blocked the end, although he could play out on the wing, 0:10:09.973 --> 0:10:13.733 which we'll send him to for White Cut. So let's 0:10:13.733 --> 0:10:16.293 get into the Rugby Championship with the All Blacks playing 0:10:16.413 --> 0:10:20.573 Argentina first up. Obviously, the squad was named last week 0:10:20.613 --> 0:10:23.733 for there's tour and a large squad for the tour. 0:10:24.213 --> 0:10:27.373 I guess if you compare it to quote unquote the 0:10:27.373 --> 0:10:30.493 top team that started the French series and say that 0:10:30.533 --> 0:10:33.413 they say Wellington and that first test in Dunedin, do 0:10:33.453 --> 0:10:35.653 we expect many changes or does it matter of say, 0:10:35.773 --> 0:10:38.573 you know, the players like Scott Barrett coming back into 0:10:38.573 --> 0:10:41.613 the second row, you know Wallace a t t at 0:10:41.653 --> 0:10:45.013 number eight, Those sort of things for this test and 0:10:45.133 --> 0:10:47.253 first test in called over well. 0:10:47.173 --> 0:10:49.253 I think first and foremost this will be the All 0:10:49.293 --> 0:10:51.693 Black's first choice team. They're not going to take any 0:10:51.773 --> 0:10:55.173 chances with the Pumas that lost to them and Wellington 0:10:55.253 --> 0:10:59.013 last year will still firmly sticking the clare and that 0:10:59.053 --> 0:11:01.693 won't allow the Pumas that the elements of surprise that 0:11:01.733 --> 0:11:04.853 they had maybe the All Blacks underestimated of them, maybe 0:11:04.853 --> 0:11:07.333 though caught by a surprise. That certainly won't be the 0:11:07.413 --> 0:11:10.493 case into Argentina for two games over there, So it 0:11:10.573 --> 0:11:14.533 will be the All Blacks' best available team. And with 0:11:14.653 --> 0:11:20.013 that and minds, you know you'd expect if Wallace is fit, 0:11:20.333 --> 0:11:22.293 he probably comes back in and starts, doesn't he And 0:11:22.533 --> 0:11:23.533 the same for Scott Barrett Well. 0:11:23.533 --> 0:11:25.053 I think it's a straightforward thing, isn't it. You know 0:11:25.933 --> 0:11:28.773 Leo Will he's not there, so Tidi comes back in, 0:11:29.093 --> 0:11:31.293 assuming he's good to go at number eight. It's the 0:11:31.333 --> 0:11:33.453 path of least resistance. You don't have to tweak too 0:11:33.453 --> 0:11:37.373 many things. That's assuming he's poised to get through eighty minutes, 0:11:37.453 --> 0:11:39.333 I guess is the one question that would be there 0:11:39.653 --> 0:11:41.333 around it. But if he's in the squad good to go. 0:11:41.413 --> 0:11:43.813 Then I'd say Wallace a TDI comes in the half 0:11:43.853 --> 0:11:47.133 back is fascinating. Now, of course he's right Tomid. Does 0:11:47.133 --> 0:11:48.973 he just elevate himself to nine or is there actually 0:11:48.973 --> 0:11:50.573 a little bit of a conversation to be had there? 0:11:51.013 --> 0:11:53.653 No, I think Courtez comes in at nine. Finlay hasn't 0:11:53.693 --> 0:11:57.613 been around that group, and Preston probably still has a 0:11:57.613 --> 0:12:00.973 bit of time to get up to speeds his first 0:12:01.013 --> 0:12:04.213 time in the All Blacks can be but players can 0:12:04.253 --> 0:12:07.293 get a bit overall by that, So I think Courtez 0:12:07.693 --> 0:12:13.053 comes into art there. What's the most contestable role? We 0:12:13.093 --> 0:12:18.093 know the first choice the incumbents Tomighty Williams isn't available 0:12:18.093 --> 0:12:20.293 for the first Test. Sounds like you'll come back for 0:12:20.333 --> 0:12:23.813 the seconds. What do you see is the most contestable 0:12:23.813 --> 0:12:28.533 probably to provide a six the midfields. Does Billy Proctor 0:12:28.533 --> 0:12:29.333 get another gut center? 0:12:29.373 --> 0:12:29.573 Yeah? 0:12:29.573 --> 0:12:31.093 I think Billy Procter does go. I mean, I think 0:12:31.093 --> 0:12:33.413 those roles are contestable over time. Maybe not so much 0:12:33.413 --> 0:12:35.733 for this Test match as a one off for and 0:12:35.773 --> 0:12:37.373 you know, just singling it out, but I think over 0:12:37.413 --> 0:12:40.333 time those jerseys are still contestable. In terms of blind 0:12:40.373 --> 0:12:43.733 soide flanker. In terms of center, Billy Proctor had two tests. 0:12:43.773 --> 0:12:45.133 I would have liked to see him get a third 0:12:45.133 --> 0:12:48.573 in that series. He didn't. I suspect he's still at 0:12:48.573 --> 0:12:50.853 this point in time the first choice in the All Blacks. Minds. 0:12:51.693 --> 0:12:53.933 We had Scott Hansen say during the week that it's 0:12:53.973 --> 0:12:56.493 not other run as possibility. We might see Rico Yuani 0:12:56.533 --> 0:12:59.093 go back and descend it, but he's been included as 0:12:59.093 --> 0:13:03.693 an outside back and in this squad as well, So yeah, 0:13:03.933 --> 0:13:07.293 I'd go Billy Proctor at thirteen outside Jordi Barrett feels 0:13:07.293 --> 0:13:10.053 like the most natural combine nation that they've got there, 0:13:10.813 --> 0:13:14.493 and just hope that that Test rugby clicks for Billy 0:13:14.493 --> 0:13:16.413 proped to because it probably hasn't to this point. 0:13:16.973 --> 0:13:20.573 Yeah, I thought he was. He got better as that 0:13:20.693 --> 0:13:23.413 series war on. In Wellington. I thought he played well 0:13:23.573 --> 0:13:25.773 on both sides of the ball, particularly in the second half, 0:13:25.813 --> 0:13:28.253 but hasn't looked as good as he did in Super 0:13:28.333 --> 0:13:32.093 rugby and just needs that more time, I think. Just 0:13:32.413 --> 0:13:36.813 note that Simon Parker is being playing NPC this weekend 0:13:36.853 --> 0:13:40.253 so clearly won't be included in that. In that first 0:13:40.293 --> 0:13:43.693 test squads, he was the notable inclusion in the All 0:13:43.693 --> 0:13:46.013 Black s Rugby Championship mix. And there's a couple of others. 0:13:46.053 --> 0:13:48.173 Aren't there playing the MPC this weekend? Yeah there are 0:13:49.213 --> 0:13:52.933 last weekend yep, so interesting see how they come through that. 0:13:53.813 --> 0:13:55.693 Trying to think off Tom Ofhead who exactly they are, 0:13:55.733 --> 0:13:59.973 But yeah, the players are playing an MPC of the weekend, 0:14:00.093 --> 0:14:02.333 just being mon't be playing the first test, and it's 0:14:02.373 --> 0:14:05.933 just it's a nightmare to get to Argentina. It takes 0:14:05.973 --> 0:14:09.173 about seventy two hours, not that much, but they weren't 0:14:09.213 --> 0:14:10.133 playing in that first test. 0:14:10.413 --> 0:14:11.493 No wings. 0:14:11.573 --> 0:14:15.453 Do you expect Rico and severice very contestable spots on 0:14:15.493 --> 0:14:15.773 the wing? 0:14:15.933 --> 0:14:18.293 But I do, Yeah, I think for this first test 0:14:18.333 --> 0:14:22.893 match and if they win in Cordo. But it doesn't 0:14:22.893 --> 0:14:25.173 give them a license necessarily because Argentina are a very 0:14:25.213 --> 0:14:27.693 very tough team and often better when they've had you know, 0:14:27.773 --> 0:14:33.093 one game and can can see the team. I suspect, 0:14:33.333 --> 0:14:35.733 you know, suspect that probably that may give them a 0:14:35.773 --> 0:14:37.453 little bit of license to look at it in Atawa 0:14:37.653 --> 0:14:41.093 or even the Leroy Carter for the second test of 0:14:41.333 --> 0:14:43.773 this trip. But I would be very surprised if anything 0:14:43.773 --> 0:14:46.733 other than the incumbents and by using incumbents and Inta 0:14:46.773 --> 0:14:50.333 combas Rico, Uani and Severice get the nod there and 0:14:50.333 --> 0:14:53.573 then Will Jordan at fullback. So that's the team that 0:14:53.693 --> 0:14:57.493 I would pick. Feels relatively straightforward to this point. 0:14:57.733 --> 0:15:01.133 Yeah, front row tyro a Lomax out, so Fletch Newell 0:15:01.213 --> 0:15:03.573 probably comes in there. What about Lucid with to Mighty 0:15:03.573 --> 0:15:05.733 Williams still one week away from coming back. 0:15:05.933 --> 0:15:09.653 I think to Grout starts there. You know, I thought 0:15:09.693 --> 0:15:14.453 he built over that series. He's still, in my mind, 0:15:14.613 --> 0:15:17.453 not delivering what the All Blacks would like him to. 0:15:17.893 --> 0:15:20.853 I don't think that the passing game comes natural to 0:15:21.093 --> 0:15:23.693 ethan degree that the All Blacks are clearly attacking in 0:15:23.733 --> 0:15:26.133 that shape now and asking their props to do a 0:15:26.173 --> 0:15:29.413 little little bit more handling of the ball and setting 0:15:29.493 --> 0:15:31.773 up the back line as well, just in some of 0:15:31.813 --> 0:15:35.493 the carries they're doing. So I can't see them going 0:15:35.533 --> 0:15:39.973 against the grain for that one. But again, the second Test, 0:15:40.173 --> 0:15:41.693 if the All Blacks won the first one, could be 0:15:41.693 --> 0:15:44.373 interesting because you still have a week off in between 0:15:45.213 --> 0:15:47.453 the Second Test and Buenos Aire's and coming home for 0:15:47.453 --> 0:15:49.693 that game at Eden Park. But they may just look 0:15:49.733 --> 0:15:51.893 to get some players on ice get to Mighty Williams 0:15:51.893 --> 0:15:52.453 and the team and. 0:15:54.013 --> 0:15:54.933 Change a few things up. 0:15:55.253 --> 0:15:56.493 If we take a step back and look at the 0:15:56.533 --> 0:15:59.373 Rugby Championship as a whole, what's the successful tournament for 0:15:59.413 --> 0:16:01.253 the All Blacks that they didn't want it last year, 0:16:01.333 --> 0:16:05.133 lost those two games in South Africa. They've never in 0:16:05.533 --> 0:16:08.933 history not won the Rugby Championship too in a row. 0:16:09.173 --> 0:16:11.733 Is it as simple as when the title or bust? 0:16:11.813 --> 0:16:16.173 I think it is this year because they have the 0:16:16.213 --> 0:16:19.213 softer Rugby Championship draw that you would get and I 0:16:19.333 --> 0:16:22.333 use this with the greatest subspect to Argentina, but they're 0:16:22.333 --> 0:16:24.173 still searching for that first one on home soil and 0:16:24.213 --> 0:16:27.093 until that comes in, it will be seen as a 0:16:27.133 --> 0:16:30.053 softer trip having two games in Argentina rather than the 0:16:30.053 --> 0:16:32.293 two in South Africa under the format that the Rugby 0:16:32.333 --> 0:16:36.813 Championship now operates, so when you've got South Africa twice 0:16:36.853 --> 0:16:39.533 at home, it's easy than playing them at Alice Park 0:16:39.693 --> 0:16:41.653 and playing them in Cape Town wherever it might be. 0:16:41.773 --> 0:16:44.853 So I think this year it's win or bust for 0:16:45.053 --> 0:16:48.213 Scott Robertson and his team, and the All Blacks have 0:16:48.293 --> 0:16:50.613 never not won at two years in a row, so 0:16:50.893 --> 0:16:54.493 there's an expectation that they'll bounce back. South Africa's gonna 0:16:54.493 --> 0:16:57.573 be all mightily tough when they come to Eden Park 0:16:57.653 --> 0:16:59.613 and to Sky Stadium in a few weeks time. But 0:16:59.653 --> 0:17:01.933 I think that they have to go out and win 0:17:01.973 --> 0:17:05.493 it otherwise it can't be deemed a successful campaign. 0:17:05.493 --> 0:17:08.573 What's the you, Yeah, I think there should write be 0:17:08.573 --> 0:17:11.813 an expectation that the All Blacks reclaim the Rugby Championship. 0:17:12.773 --> 0:17:16.973 If you remove the title, I think going one on 0:17:16.973 --> 0:17:22.133 one with the spring Box would be acceptable, Probably less 0:17:22.173 --> 0:17:24.613 so if that loss comes at Eden Park, just because 0:17:24.653 --> 0:17:29.213 of the historical significance and everything that's gone before. The 0:17:29.253 --> 0:17:32.133 All Blacks always talk about the history, the legacy and 0:17:32.173 --> 0:17:36.213 they will be desperate to uphold that. That matches, in 0:17:36.253 --> 0:17:39.853 my mind, the most important Test match this year, and 0:17:39.933 --> 0:17:43.733 the spring Box will be gunning for it. But just 0:17:43.773 --> 0:17:45.893 because of where the Springboks are at, I think there 0:17:45.893 --> 0:17:48.853 does need to be a bit of context about them 0:17:48.893 --> 0:17:51.653 being world champions. The depth are built their record over 0:17:51.693 --> 0:17:52.693 the past few years. 0:17:53.413 --> 0:17:55.373 But yeah, the All Blacks are on home soil. 0:17:55.213 --> 0:17:56.853 There on home soil and they've got a record that 0:17:56.893 --> 0:18:01.653 they you know, winning is you know what they're expected 0:18:01.733 --> 0:18:04.133 to do it's the key to their commercial success. So 0:18:04.453 --> 0:18:06.653 you've got to win these big games when they come along. 0:18:06.493 --> 0:18:10.613 They do and so reclaim the title. But as far 0:18:10.653 --> 0:18:11.933 from straightforward. 0:18:11.413 --> 0:18:13.013 All right, we'll give me your finishing order then for 0:18:13.013 --> 0:18:14.133 the Rugby Championship. 0:18:15.093 --> 0:18:19.453 All right, look, oh, the Box a favorites, but I'll 0:18:19.493 --> 0:18:22.693 back the All Blacks to finish top to win the 0:18:22.773 --> 0:18:27.093 Rugby Championship. Box second, I'm going to say the Pumas 0:18:27.533 --> 0:18:32.613 finish third and the Wallaby's fourth. I think the lines 0:18:32.693 --> 0:18:34.533 tour will actually take a bit of a toll on 0:18:34.573 --> 0:18:37.253 them by the end, and they'll be missing a few 0:18:37.253 --> 0:18:39.333 of those key guys like Skelton. I think he may 0:18:39.373 --> 0:18:42.573 be available for the opening Rugby Championship game against the Box, 0:18:42.613 --> 0:18:46.133 but then we'll go back to France and yeah, I 0:18:46.213 --> 0:18:49.333 just feel like the Wallabies may run out of depth 0:18:49.373 --> 0:18:50.093 and a bit of steam. 0:18:50.613 --> 0:18:52.133 Yeah. I kind of feel the same way. It's going 0:18:52.173 --> 0:18:55.013 to be a long six games by the time they 0:18:55.013 --> 0:18:57.333 get to Perth for that final game against the All Blacks, 0:18:59.893 --> 0:19:03.253 I will probably Yeah, I'm going to go South Africa 0:19:03.293 --> 0:19:05.173 finish top. I think they'll split one one in New 0:19:05.253 --> 0:19:08.413 Zealand and some of the other results will conspire to 0:19:08.413 --> 0:19:10.013 to get them to the top. The All Blacks will 0:19:10.053 --> 0:19:13.053 just narrowly miss out and maybe you know, in seven 0:19:13.093 --> 0:19:15.173 eight weeks time we're reviewing it as a good campaign, 0:19:15.173 --> 0:19:17.773 but not a great one from the All Blacks. And third, 0:19:18.093 --> 0:19:23.133 I think probably the Wallabies just to buy the basis 0:19:23.133 --> 0:19:25.133 that well they've got the Poombers twice at home. I 0:19:25.133 --> 0:19:27.693 think they should beat the Poomers twice at home, although 0:19:27.693 --> 0:19:29.413 the last time the Pumas are there from memory they'll 0:19:29.453 --> 0:19:31.653 drop one of them. So it is set up as 0:19:31.653 --> 0:19:34.493 an interesting Rugby Championship, isn't it. And there's a lot 0:19:34.493 --> 0:19:39.773 of questions around the Rugby Championships future. We've got the 0:19:40.173 --> 0:19:42.773 rugby's greatest rivalry coming in next year, still to be 0:19:42.813 --> 0:19:45.213 officially confirmed, but it is happening. Three tests against the 0:19:45.213 --> 0:19:46.733 spring Box. The All Blacks will go over the year. 0:19:46.893 --> 0:19:50.373 It'll return in twenty thirty. So the Rugby Championships in 0:19:50.413 --> 0:19:53.013 an interesting place, isn't it? Because this year it's the 0:19:53.053 --> 0:19:55.933 full format. We won't see the full format again until 0:19:55.973 --> 0:19:58.333 twenty twenty eight. Given twenty twenty seven is a Rugby 0:19:58.373 --> 0:20:01.693 World Cup year, it's truncated so and then after that 0:20:01.733 --> 0:20:03.213 you know it's pushed back a little bit because the 0:20:03.293 --> 0:20:05.933 Lion's coming to New Zealand. If unless Stephen Jones has 0:20:05.933 --> 0:20:08.093 his way and they go and play in France, then 0:20:08.933 --> 0:20:12.933 it's South Africa coming here for three tests. So is 0:20:12.933 --> 0:20:16.773 that an interesting juncture the Rugby Championship And I guess 0:20:16.773 --> 0:20:20.173 if you're the All Blacks and New Zealand Rugby and 0:20:20.333 --> 0:20:24.413 Sansar as a whole kind of needs to have a 0:20:24.413 --> 0:20:25.613 bit of a stake in the ground as to what 0:20:25.653 --> 0:20:28.333 the Rugby Championship actually is and where it goes to 0:20:28.413 --> 0:20:28.813