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Speaker 1: We've got some stats from inside our prisons. We've got

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Speaker 1: a sixty six percent increase in the number of prisoners

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Speaker 1: asking for segregation. Twelve thousand separation requests were approved in

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Speaker 1: the twenty three twenty four financial year. This is in

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Speaker 1: a prison population of just over twenty thousand. Neil Bills,

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Speaker 1: as the Corruption Corruption Corrections Deputy Commissioner enders with us Neil,

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Speaker 1: very good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning Mike.

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Speaker 1: That twenty thousand is a turnover, isn't it? Because the

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Speaker 1: musters at about ten am. I right in saying that

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Speaker 1: it is a turnover.

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Speaker 2: The must it currently is ten six hundred and ninety two.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Is all of this gang related?

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Speaker 2: No, it's not all gang related, but it is largely

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Speaker 2: driven by gangs and sourso largely driven by the perception

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Speaker 2: that some have coming to prison of what gangs can do.

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Speaker 2: So quite a complex mix. Yes, there is violence in

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Speaker 2: prisons and no doubt, and there are more prisoners in

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Speaker 2: prison than we have seen before so only o the

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Speaker 2: verast few years. That comes with a cost in terms

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Speaker 2: of people's perceptions of safety, and it also comes at

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Speaker 2: a cost in terms of our ability to manage the

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Speaker 2: numbers in the ways that we always have all the

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Speaker 2: complexities with romand security classifications, mental health issues, etc.

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Speaker 1: And when you talk about perception, is that what some

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Speaker 1: of the requests are based on. I think I might

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Speaker 1: get gang therefore I need to be stuck in the

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Speaker 1: corner please.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, some people come into prison might be the

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Speaker 2: first time, there might be a low level offender. They

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Speaker 2: know that going into some of the more mainstream units

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Speaker 2: are quite heavily gang populated, they don't want to go

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Speaker 2: in there. They don't want to get into that situation,

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Speaker 2: so they immediately ask for voluntary segregation. Some prisoners get

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Speaker 2: themselves into debt from the gangs, and then they will

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Speaker 2: run from that debt. And there's also a hierarchy in prison.

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Speaker 2: I think Jared Gilbert in his report refers to that

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Speaker 2: as well, that you know, depending on the offense type

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Speaker 2: that you're in for, you might feel more threatened than otherwise.

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Speaker 2: So it's a very complex ecosystem in prisons, which and

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Speaker 2: it's very dynamics. So you've got a place like Mount

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Speaker 2: Even which is turning what thirty six thousand people through

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Speaker 2: their doors every year. You know, you could have a

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Speaker 2: unit in the morning which is being run perfectly fine,

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Speaker 2: everything's calm, there's no problems. You move one prisoner to

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Speaker 2: there from a different can it upsets the balance, and

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Speaker 2: all of a sudden in that afternoon you've got all

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Speaker 2: sorts of problems.

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Speaker 1: Which is what I was going to ask next. Is

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Speaker 1: it remand is high security or is it across the board?

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Speaker 2: Across the board that we are see more romands than

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Speaker 2: ever before. So we're currently sitting in ten six hundred

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Speaker 2: and ninety two number and forty six of those are remand,

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Speaker 2: which is you know, that creates an immense amount of

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Speaker 2: flux through the prison system right across the state, but

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Speaker 2: particularly in those big urban areas, and that brings with

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Speaker 2: it some significant challenges because a we don't know the

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Speaker 2: people very well when they come in, they might only

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Speaker 2: be with us for a short time. We haven't got

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Speaker 2: a lot of time to do assessments on it. And

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Speaker 2: they moved through us quite quickly, and they can be

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Speaker 2: quite disruptive in that time as well, So very very difficult.

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Speaker 2: I take my hat off to the staff who work

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Speaker 2: in those units who do that because of exceptional complex work.

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Speaker 1: Exactly good on you, Neil, appreciate it. Neil Bial's Corrections

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Speaker 1: Deputy Commissioner and despite the ed campaign, who would do

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Speaker 1: the job? I mean, obviously people do, but goodness math.

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