1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: It is politics. Wednesday. Mark Mitchell is with us long 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: with Carmel Seppaloni, who is in for Ginny Anderson, who 3 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: I believe to be in China. Good morning to you both. 4 00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:09,000 Speaker 2: Morning Carmel. 5 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:11,559 Speaker 1: Now Mark, you're on the road, you're on the wire raside, 6 00:00:11,560 --> 00:00:12,479 Speaker 1: when's the Prime minister game? 7 00:00:13,160 --> 00:00:17,120 Speaker 2: Way as he's looking at Saturday. He's trying to get 8 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:18,160 Speaker 2: the afford Saturday. 9 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:22,479 Speaker 1: So yeah, is there something wrong with the council there 10 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:26,239 Speaker 1: as regards the bar, as regards the flooding and why 11 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 1: are you involved or the government involved in something council 12 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:30,400 Speaker 1: should do and clearly haven't been doing properly. 13 00:00:31,520 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 2: Look, so there's not the the Warror Council themselves have 14 00:00:35,159 --> 00:00:38,040 Speaker 2: done an outstanding job. The staff then had done an 15 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: outstanding job in terms of not only deal with Gabriel, 16 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 2: but obviously this latest flooding event. And of course the 17 00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:45,720 Speaker 2: government has got a role to play to make sure 18 00:00:45,720 --> 00:00:48,680 Speaker 2: that we're alongside them and supporting them in that and 19 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 2: of course the town itself. There is major concern around 20 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,280 Speaker 2: the management of the river mouth and whether or not 21 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 2: that contributed to you know, it made the flood. It 22 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:02,280 Speaker 2: seems a stream. Yeah, Well, I mean but Obviously, there's 23 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 2: got to be a process that's gone through to identify clearly, 24 00:01:06,080 --> 00:01:09,000 Speaker 2: you know what the issues are. Number one, to address 25 00:01:09,040 --> 00:01:13,200 Speaker 2: those issues for warra. Number two, to make sure that 26 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:15,959 Speaker 2: they can have confidence that the mitigations put in place 27 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:16,839 Speaker 2: that doesn't happen again. 28 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:20,319 Speaker 1: Okay, Carmel, a couple of things for you. One, why 29 00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: are so many of your people? That's not criticism, is 30 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:23,640 Speaker 1: just a question. Why are so many of your people 31 00:01:23,680 --> 00:01:25,440 Speaker 1: on leave? Is it because it's recess and everyone just 32 00:01:25,520 --> 00:01:26,760 Speaker 1: naps off and goes on holiday. 33 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:28,959 Speaker 3: Well, I think it's still a lot of us here. 34 00:01:29,000 --> 00:01:32,440 Speaker 3: We've got the majority of our labor caucus in Auckland 35 00:01:32,560 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 3: this week for away caucus here and people do take leave, 36 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,319 Speaker 3: so you know, like the best time to take it 37 00:01:40,400 --> 00:01:43,240 Speaker 3: is during a recess. So obviously we want to say 38 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:45,120 Speaker 3: how many people are away at any given time. Do 39 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,280 Speaker 3: you think I wouldn't be surprised that there's a few 40 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 3: national imps there are on lead too. 41 00:01:49,200 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 2: Yeah. 42 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: The probably is is there enough parliament going on Carmel 43 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:54,760 Speaker 1: At the moment there seems to be a lot of downweks. 44 00:01:55,560 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 3: It feels like that, particularly after a budget, we haven't 45 00:01:58,920 --> 00:01:59,240 Speaker 3: had the. 46 00:01:59,160 --> 00:02:01,720 Speaker 4: Opportunity there we would have usually. 47 00:02:01,840 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 3: To interrogate the government because they've had very huge sitting weeks, 48 00:02:05,400 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 3: so they seem to have manufactured it in a way 49 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 3: where we haven't had the opportunity to scrutinize them, which. 50 00:02:15,560 --> 00:02:17,919 Speaker 1: We didn't scrutinize us. There, it's a perfectosure. 51 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,519 Speaker 2: Well, that's right, that's a really good point, Mike. But look, 52 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 2: we just came through a full scrutiny week where the 53 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:29,040 Speaker 2: Labor Party had a whole week of scrutiny of government ministers, 54 00:02:29,200 --> 00:02:29,799 Speaker 2: which we did. 55 00:02:30,120 --> 00:02:31,120 Speaker 3: We did, We did have that. 56 00:02:31,120 --> 00:02:38,239 Speaker 4: Soames, since we interrogation, sustained interrogation over a theory of 57 00:02:38,320 --> 00:02:42,160 Speaker 4: sitting week, because unfortunately you had a. 58 00:02:42,120 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 2: Week of sustained interrogation that didn't really seem to go 59 00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:47,919 Speaker 2: go anyway you though quite far. 60 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,680 Speaker 3: Actually, Mark, there are quite a few detrimental headlines for 61 00:02:51,760 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 3: you guys. 62 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 1: You know, it was an interesting week. I think in totality, 63 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: would you agree Carmel in general take the politics out 64 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 1: of for a moment. As an idea, scrutiny Week's a 65 00:02:59,480 --> 00:02:59,919 Speaker 1: good idea. 66 00:03:00,880 --> 00:03:02,360 Speaker 3: I think it is a good idea. I think that 67 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,960 Speaker 3: we can make it better. It's the third time that 68 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:09,160 Speaker 3: it's been held but certainly had the government under the 69 00:03:09,200 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 3: spotlight for that week. 70 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: Okay, tell us Mark, I know you're in why Rara 71 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: and this is probably a million miles away from where 72 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 1: your head is. But this media bill, which was Labour's 73 00:03:19,040 --> 00:03:21,959 Speaker 1: idea originally, of course, and Goldsmith rolled it out yesterday, 74 00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: are you guys in National genuinely in for this audio 75 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,160 Speaker 1: sort of? Is this a soopweed? We'll give it a 76 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 1: crack and see what happens. 77 00:03:31,360 --> 00:03:33,160 Speaker 2: No, I think we know we're definitely in for it. 78 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,320 Speaker 2: Otherwise we wouldn't have put the bill forward. But you know, yes, 79 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:41,160 Speaker 2: it's it's Paul Goldsmith's portfolio area of but no, we 80 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 2: are fully we are fully committed to it. 81 00:03:42,640 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: About that, do you think it'll work? 82 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 2: I don't know. I mean, honestly, might that's a question. 83 00:03:48,240 --> 00:03:50,920 Speaker 2: I've heard your challenges and in the points that you've made, 84 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:52,720 Speaker 2: I think they're very, very good and valid ones. I 85 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:54,880 Speaker 2: think that, But I think at the end of the day, 86 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:57,960 Speaker 2: get Paul on and have a chat about it. You know, 87 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 2: I can certainly go through one of the things that 88 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:03,520 Speaker 2: obviously have been trying that are trying to achieve through 89 00:04:03,560 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 2: the bill, and I think everyone agrees that you have 90 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,840 Speaker 2: to be doing something, you know, and that's except what 91 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 2: Paul's doing. 92 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:11,640 Speaker 1: See, here's the interesting thing, cantill. I mean, I know 93 00:04:11,680 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: it's Willie's idea and all that sort of stuff. So 94 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: you guys will please no, I assume you're going to vote. 95 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:19,280 Speaker 3: For it, right, Yeah, I think that's definitely where we're heading. 96 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 3: So you should get done, Paul and Willie on. I 97 00:04:21,680 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 3: think it would be a good discussion. They might be agreeing, but. 98 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:28,919 Speaker 1: It strikes me as and look, you know, give me 99 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,000 Speaker 1: the credit for having been in this industry for a while, 100 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,400 Speaker 1: I just don't. I mean, I like the idea in 101 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: the sense that, yes, there's a problem. I just don't 102 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 1: see these guys coming to the table because they don't care. 103 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 2: Well, I just. 104 00:04:44,240 --> 00:04:44,800 Speaker 3: Keep going back. 105 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 2: No, I was just going to say, look, I do 106 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:49,880 Speaker 2: agree with that when you look around the countries in 107 00:04:49,920 --> 00:04:53,279 Speaker 2: Australia recently, and yeah, they're struggling and gripping these things. 108 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:55,840 Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean that we shouldn't still continue to 109 00:04:55,880 --> 00:04:58,440 Speaker 2: look for options in ways of trying to create a 110 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,479 Speaker 2: level playing field. But yes, but I agree with you 111 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: Mike that it's a big mountain to climb. 112 00:05:03,040 --> 00:05:03,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, where do you reckon. 113 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 3: Come on, Yeah, this is probably the one thing that 114 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 3: we'll agree on in this interview. 115 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 1: So you think it's a mountain to climb, but it's 116 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:14,039 Speaker 1: worth a crack to see if you can do it, 117 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:15,400 Speaker 1: and it's better than doing nothing. 118 00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 119 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:19,480 Speaker 1: Okay, Mark, you're on the news this morning. Are these 120 00:05:19,520 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: briefing papers to you suggesting that your emphasis on youth 121 00:05:22,480 --> 00:05:24,479 Speaker 1: crime getting it down too reliant on the police, not 122 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 1: enough on early detection or early intervention agencies. You say, what, I. 123 00:05:30,640 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 2: Know, they've definitely got it. I mean, I'm focusing on 124 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 2: the police as well obviously on Minister of Police, but 125 00:05:35,279 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: they're doing an outstanding job. But yes, they haven't always 126 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,960 Speaker 2: been supported well by other agencies and we've got to 127 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:43,760 Speaker 2: focus on that as a government to make sure that 128 00:05:43,760 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 2: that changes. Look, every agency has got a role to 129 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:49,200 Speaker 2: play and my position as policeman is just quite simply 130 00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:52,039 Speaker 2: been to step up and play your role, because you know, 131 00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:54,880 Speaker 2: the police are doing their job. They are detecting, they 132 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 2: are to investigating, they are arresting offenders, they are opposing 133 00:05:58,240 --> 00:06:02,000 Speaker 2: bail and then they straighten their count and. 134 00:06:00,920 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: That's the judicial side of the equation. We had Brendan 135 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:05,880 Speaker 1: Crompton on earlier from Blue Light. He said, that's all fine, 136 00:06:05,880 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 1: but the police come in and so he was talking 137 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 1: about your military academies as well. That's a fact, and 138 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:12,960 Speaker 1: that's fine. But what he was saying is if you 139 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:15,400 Speaker 1: get the kid earlier in the intervene earlier, you don't 140 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: need all of that. I mean, And that makes sense 141 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: to a degree, doesn't it. 142 00:06:18,520 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 2: No. I agree, And you know, Bluelights, they're doing an 143 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 2: outstanding job. They've been around a long time and they 144 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:24,839 Speaker 2: invest in not just our kids that are going on 145 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:26,680 Speaker 2: the playoffs, but I award the ones that are doing 146 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 2: well too. But listen, the reality is this might is 147 00:06:29,560 --> 00:06:32,320 Speaker 2: that a lot of these programs are very effective for 148 00:06:32,360 --> 00:06:35,520 Speaker 2: the eighty or ninety percent of the duth and youth 149 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 2: and juveile offenders. The ones that we're talking about are 150 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 2: the recidivius violent youth offenders, the ones that are responsible 151 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:46,039 Speaker 2: for multiple aggravated robberies, and we need a really serious intervention, 152 00:06:46,160 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 2: and that is taking them out of the community where 153 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 2: they're creating the arm and then investing in them so 154 00:06:50,320 --> 00:06:52,360 Speaker 2: they can come back and they got the best chance 155 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 2: of making good decisions in their lives instead of bad ones. 156 00:06:54,760 --> 00:06:56,800 Speaker 1: Carmel. Let me ask you this Q two ended as 157 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,000 Speaker 1: this action plan for the government. Q three came into 158 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: play this week, so Q to. One thing they didn't 159 00:07:00,920 --> 00:07:04,480 Speaker 1: do was Tipu king They couldn't get the consultation underway 160 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:06,960 Speaker 1: when you as opposition, now look at that. So you 161 00:07:07,040 --> 00:07:10,880 Speaker 1: put it together, they're deconstructing it. What do you do 162 00:07:11,160 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 1: if you get back and do you put it back 163 00:07:12,680 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: together again? And how long does that pattern go on for? 164 00:07:15,440 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 3: Are you still talking about the youth picking? Oh yeah, well, 165 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:23,400 Speaker 3: I mean it's a mess at the moment. You know, 166 00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 3: like the government don't really have a plan for what 167 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:29,120 Speaker 3: they're going to do in the space. You know, what 168 00:07:29,160 --> 00:07:31,520 Speaker 3: we saw when we came into government in two thy 169 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 3: and seventeen was a polytech environment and landscape that was 170 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 3: indeed trouble financially. They were not sustainable and we had 171 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,400 Speaker 3: to come up with a plan. It was the creation 172 00:07:42,480 --> 00:07:46,040 Speaker 3: of Tipu Kinger. The government have not allowed that to 173 00:07:46,120 --> 00:07:48,680 Speaker 3: continue and to actually reach the benefits. So now they 174 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,040 Speaker 3: turn it on its head with no plan moving forward. 175 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:54,200 Speaker 1: But that's that's my question. We start back, that's my question. 176 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:57,120 Speaker 1: You're watching them, you're watching them. Forget the politics. You 177 00:07:57,120 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: don't agree. I get that, but you put it together, 178 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 1: they're pulling it apart. What do you do next time 179 00:08:02,280 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 1: round put it back together again? 180 00:08:03,640 --> 00:08:05,760 Speaker 3: I mean that that is going to have to be 181 00:08:05,800 --> 00:08:07,840 Speaker 3: a discussion that we have over the over the next 182 00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:10,320 Speaker 3: couple of years. We're not in a position to announce policy, 183 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 3: but they have turned it upside down unnecessarily. They should 184 00:08:14,320 --> 00:08:17,440 Speaker 3: have just continued with the trajectory that their Pukinger was 185 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 3: on to ensure that we had an educational, terutory landscape 186 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,000 Speaker 3: that was going to work for New Zealanders, and they 187 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 3: haven't done that as well as that, you know, disestablishing 188 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:33,880 Speaker 3: the workforce Development councils, disestablishing the regional skills leadership groups, 189 00:08:33,960 --> 00:08:36,120 Speaker 3: all of the things that we're going to help with 190 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 3: actually providing a coherent workforce training a landscape across the 191 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 3: country so that we've got people who can access the 192 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:48,160 Speaker 3: skills and training that they need to be able to 193 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 3: take up the jobs that are there. 194 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 2: Mike Carmel was right that it was it was a 195 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:58,480 Speaker 2: complete mess. It wasn't financially sustainable. And Penny Simmons, who 196 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,360 Speaker 2: of course has got a big background experience in this field, 197 00:09:01,800 --> 00:09:03,200 Speaker 2: is doing a lot of work to make sure that 198 00:09:03,240 --> 00:09:04,960 Speaker 2: we do have a world class bag. 199 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:09,320 Speaker 3: I'm saying in two thousand that. 200 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:13,000 Speaker 2: Is financially sustainable because Carble, you guys made a real 201 00:09:13,040 --> 00:09:13,440 Speaker 2: hash of it. 202 00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 3: So in twenty and seventeen marks and then we were 203 00:09:19,800 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 3: a triple it is you turned it all upside down again. 204 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 1: So many hashes, so little time. Chris Hipkins in his 205 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:32,000 Speaker 1: TV cabinet. Be honest, Carmel, were you genuinely impressed with that? 206 00:09:33,040 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: I'm sorry, didn't he Chris Hopkins in his TV cabinet. 207 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:38,640 Speaker 3: And his TV cabinet? 208 00:09:38,640 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: Are you not? Are you not up on the Chris 209 00:09:40,320 --> 00:09:41,479 Speaker 1: Hopkins TV. 210 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:44,160 Speaker 3: Cabin I see the social media and I mean it 211 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:48,640 Speaker 3: just goes to show skillful and you know, hidden talents 212 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 3: our leader of the Labor Party. 213 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 4: The leader of the Labor Party had. 214 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:56,400 Speaker 2: Were you not impressed, Garble? 215 00:09:56,800 --> 00:09:58,960 Speaker 1: I'm not sure. Mark? Can you build a TV cabinet 216 00:09:58,960 --> 00:09:59,480 Speaker 1: from scratch? 217 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,160 Speaker 3: I don't think he could cut one of those together. 218 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 2: As long as the allen Keys of the year, I'm 219 00:10:09,080 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 2: good to go. 220 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:13,480 Speaker 1: Nice to see you both appreciate it very much, Carmel 221 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:15,599 Speaker 1: Cephaloni and Mark Mitchell. If you missed the story, I 222 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: was going to use the word loosely, but it was 223 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 1: in the mainstream media. He took Chippy. Part of my 224 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:24,720 Speaker 1: problem is he's clearly got a lot of time on 225 00:10:24,760 --> 00:10:29,319 Speaker 1: his hands because putting together a from scratch television cabinet 226 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,640 Speaker 1: is a multi hour project. So he's probably on leave 227 00:10:32,679 --> 00:10:34,600 Speaker 1: as well. Carmel Cephaloni, Mark Machell. 228 00:10:34,360 --> 00:10:36,640 Speaker 2: He had a few things off for more from the 229 00:10:36,720 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 2: Mic Asking Breakfast Listen live to news talks. It'd be 230 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 2: from six am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.