Speaker 1: Kyota at Chelsea Daniels here, host of the Front Page.
Speaker 1: We're taking away breakover summer, but to help fild the gap,
Speaker 1: we're re issuing some of our most significant episodes of
Speaker 1: twenty twenty five on behalf of the Front Page team.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening and we look forward to being back
Speaker 1: with you on January twelfth, twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2: Kyota.
Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a
Speaker 1: daily podcast presented by The New Zealand Herald. The mistletoes hung,
Speaker 1: the bells are a ringing, and all through the malls
Speaker 1: Mariah Carey is singing. It's the same old story told
Speaker 1: year after year of Santa and reindeer and widespread good cheer.
Speaker 1: But look a bit closer and you might see a
Speaker 1: crack in the stronghold Saint Nick has had since way back,
Speaker 1: where once stood a hero redcoat and beard white, a
Speaker 1: sack on his slag promising Christmas delight, now stands a
Speaker 1: figure towering six foot too tall with a coat of
Speaker 1: green fur are heard two sizes too small. The Grinch
Speaker 1: who stole Christmas is making a play for the title
Speaker 1: of hero. Come this Yule tied day before Old Saint Nick,
Speaker 1: this might not end well and to give us the
Speaker 1: low down, Doctor Lorna Piati Farnell. So, Lorna, have you
Speaker 1: noticed more Grinch presents this year?
Speaker 2: I definitely have. I have noticed that a lot more
Speaker 2: Grinch themed merchandise around in this Christmas season. This has
Speaker 2: ranged from all sorts that you know, like of products
Speaker 2: from T shirts to matching family pajamas, plushes, Christmas tree decorations,
Speaker 2: you know, very cute Grinch themed ornaments, and even a
Speaker 2: lot of food tins of chocolates, tins of cookies the
Speaker 2: Grench on them, and of course food lines for children
Speaker 2: at a very well known first food restaurant I know
Speaker 2: here in Auckland for instance, at a particularly quite exciting
Speaker 2: Christmas New Christmas experience this year, families can choose to
Speaker 2: have their picture taken either with Santa or the Grench.
Speaker 2: So it's not just there, but it's been elevated to
Speaker 2: the same level of you know, Christmas iconicity as Santa.
Speaker 2: You can actually have it taken with both, you know,
Speaker 2: like if anyone is so inclined. So there's definitely been
Speaker 2: a spike in the ways in which the Grench has
Speaker 2: been used for marketing and merchandise in purposes this Christmas
Speaker 2: season for sure.
Speaker 1: Well, it's funny that you mentioned that because this is
Speaker 1: where I started my journey, because I got an email
Speaker 1: from a Christmas photo outfit. I believe they're called Enchanted
Speaker 1: Christmas in New Market.
Speaker 2: Very well, I was thinking about it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so they give you the option of going
Speaker 1: with the center of the Grinch or both. I emailed
Speaker 1: them and they said this is the first year they're
Speaker 1: giving the option. They actually got the idea from the UK.
Speaker 1: It's really popular over there apparently, and bookings sat at
Speaker 1: about thirty percent of Santa So the Grinch of thirty
Speaker 1: percent of Santa when I asked, And groups of adults
Speaker 1: are actually preferring to book a picture with the Grinch.
Speaker 1: I mean, in terms of this situation, I've been scratching
Speaker 1: my head because I too have seen a lot more
Speaker 1: Grinch presence. I've done a survey amongst all of my
Speaker 1: friends with kids. They say, yes, we're not going insane.
Speaker 1: And I was trying to think, well, why why the
Speaker 1: Grinch all of a sudden, have you any idea?
Speaker 2: Well, I think there's a certain appeal to the Grench
Speaker 2: for quite a few reasons. I think on the one hand,
Speaker 2: it represents the bit of a cheeky and perhaps counterculture
Speaker 2: view of Christmas. You know, of all those Christmas traditions
Speaker 2: that were you know, we come to know and love.
Speaker 2: He's quite the opposite of Chia number of wise, you know,
Speaker 2: what we expect of the Christmas season. You know, it's
Speaker 2: quite funny. It puts up a bit of a protest
Speaker 2: against the over the top atmosphere of Christmas and the
Speaker 2: Christmas spirit overall. So there is definitely something quite appealing
Speaker 2: about is grinchiness, you know, because some of us may
Speaker 2: feel a bit bahmbg about Christmas and how it's so
Speaker 2: you know, like hyped every year. So there's definitely that
Speaker 2: appeal as well. But I also think as a figure,
Speaker 2: you know, like when we get down to it, the
Speaker 2: Grinch is a very relatable, you know character. You know,
Speaker 2: it's it's quite lonely. Struggles with isolation, it struggles with loneliness,
Speaker 2: it struggles with having meaningful connections at a time when
Speaker 2: that season tells us that we must have those meaningful connections,
Speaker 2: so that this is the meaning of the season. You know,
Speaker 2: we live in a very hyper technological twenty first century
Speaker 2: where a lot of our lives are in the digital world.
Speaker 2: So the loss of connection is something that I think
Speaker 2: speaks quite loudly to people. So even though the Grinch,
Speaker 2: of course, is not about being online and being on
Speaker 2: the Internet, it still has that core idea, you know,
Speaker 2: that we can get a little bit lonely at Christmas,
Speaker 2: and we can struggle, you know, to make those connections,
Speaker 2: and I think in the end is transformation, you know,
Speaker 2: into an individual scho is quite lonely, but get cup
Speaker 2: comes to get you know, like understand the meaning of Christmas. Again,
Speaker 2: it is quite relatable, and I think his story is
Speaker 2: popular precisely because it tackles things like loneliness, but also
Speaker 2: the hyper commercialization of Christmas, which is something that you know,
Speaker 2: I think some of us have become quite aware of
Speaker 2: these holidays and it's this pushed to buy, you know,
Speaker 2: I can produce presents and do something fantastic. Of course,
Speaker 2: having said that, there is probably something quite ironic about
Speaker 2: the fact that the Grinch figure has become so heavily commercialized.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I was going to say, you know it, didn't
Speaker 1: he say something like what if Christmas? He thought, doesn't
Speaker 1: come from a store yet?
Speaker 2: You've got, you know, the jamas, and it's intrinsic to
Speaker 2: the Grench story. Right, So we see the rony here
Speaker 2: of the figure I have become so commercialized. But of course,
Speaker 2: also in terms of why he is appealing, we must
Speaker 2: not forget that the Grench comes from a very beloved Dr.
Speaker 2: Sue's book, which has been you know, like since nineteen
Speaker 2: fifty six. So there's definitely and all the film and
Speaker 2: animated adaptations that have come after, of course, and there
Speaker 2: have been a few. It's humorous, and undoubtedly there is
Speaker 2: a lot of for some of us at least turned
Speaker 2: up on myself in that group, a lot of deep
Speaker 2: rooted nostalgia that heightens the appeal of the Grinch figure
Speaker 2: with the public.
Speaker 3: Undoubtedly every who down in Hoover liked Christmas a lot.
Speaker 2: Broom stop the colors.
Speaker 3: You could change my entire look on life. Warril no.
Speaker 4: Jim carry even if we're horribly Mandelby's had faces on
Speaker 4: Grace my stuff, doctors who says how the Grinch store Christmas?
Speaker 2: Even if I wanted to go my shit, all wouldn't
Speaker 2: allow it.
Speaker 3: Four o'clock wall, I went self Paddy checkstading dinner with me.
Speaker 4: I can't can't tell that again.
Speaker 1: I was surprised to see that it's actually the twenty
Speaker 1: fifth anniversary of the Jim Carrey adaptation that film, so
Speaker 1: I was thinking, well, could that have something to do
Speaker 1: with why we're seeing him especially so much this year,
Speaker 1: or is it just all millennials growing up and having
Speaker 1: kids and you know, exposing their children, this new generation
Speaker 1: to the gringeh.
Speaker 2: Is the end of the twenty fifth anniversary, isn't it?
Speaker 2: That's come around far too quickly for my liking. But undoubtedly,
Speaker 2: you know, the Jim Carrey movie definitely had a very
Speaker 2: generational impact, you know, like for millennials, you know, like
Speaker 2: it was a big Grench narrative of the time. The
Speaker 2: renewed interest in the Grinch came with that movie. But
Speaker 2: I don't think the Jim Carrey movie is the only
Speaker 2: reason why we're witnessing a growth or resurfacing of popularity
Speaker 2: of the grinching you know, Christmas merchandise. Certainly the items
Speaker 2: that I've seen of the Grinch particularly recalled the Doctor
Speaker 2: Seuss illustrations or even more so the nineteen sixty six adaptation,
Speaker 2: you know, cartoon adaptation, which has become quite iconic over
Speaker 2: the years. So I think all these different Grench narratives
Speaker 2: and older nostalgia that they brought up at a time
Speaker 2: where the world is not in the most fantastic place.
Speaker 2: Perhaps so some of us may turned to nostalgia, you know,
Speaker 2: like to make us feel a bit better to share
Speaker 2: with our family, you know, like if we you know,
Speaker 2: people have children and are of that general where the
Speaker 2: Grench you know, like got a little bit of a
Speaker 2: boost in the nineties and early two thousands. Certainly this
Speaker 2: is the right time for the Grench as a figure
Speaker 2: to capture the imagination at Christmas.
Speaker 1: It does seem quite strange how a figure, a Christmas
Speaker 1: specific figure has come along and is able to at
Speaker 1: least compete with Father Christmas at the top of the
Speaker 1: leader board when it comes to fictional or non fictional,
Speaker 1: if anyone, you know, off the top, I mean, should
Speaker 1: the Easter bunny be worried? I know in Australia we
Speaker 1: had there was a resurgence of the Easter Bilby at
Speaker 1: one point because you know, farmers don't like rabbits on
Speaker 1: their farms and everything. But the Easter Bilby really didn't
Speaker 1: you know, take off, so to speak. Only Australia. Some
Speaker 1: Australians of a certain generation probably know who the Easter
Speaker 1: Bilby is.
Speaker 2: Do you reckon that there's any.
Speaker 1: Other figures or fictional characters out there that could you know,
Speaker 1: give other others a run for their money?
Speaker 2: So we're wondering and if the Grinch has indeed stolen
Speaker 2: Christmas in more ways than one, well two parts of this.
Speaker 2: In spite of the Grinch's popularity that we're seeing this year,
Speaker 2: this incredible resurgence is everywhere. Yeah, old the nostalgia, older merchandise.
Speaker 2: Santa is very much still there, you know, It's still
Speaker 2: very much in all the merchandise, is in the shop displays,
Speaker 2: is in the picture opportunities you know that we can have,
Speaker 2: you know, like it is in the adverts. It's Christmas adverts.
Speaker 2: So I don't quite think Santa at least is at
Speaker 2: a risk of losing is thrown as the King of Christmas.
Speaker 2: As for other figures, well that remains to be seen,
Speaker 2: you know, Like I'm not sure the Easter Bunny has
Speaker 2: enough competition, you know, in popular culture quite yet, of course,
Speaker 2: you know, like there are the Christian traditions, you know,
Speaker 2: like around something you know, a celebration like Easter that
Speaker 2: do not necessarily involved that is the bunny. So again,
Speaker 2: we've got quite a few offshoots, But as far as
Speaker 2: Christmas is concerned, it's quite nice to see a little
Speaker 2: bit of an alternative different ways, diverse ways of celebrating
Speaker 2: Christmas and different Christmas psyconomic iciography is coming into the
Speaker 2: full ground that are not necessarily the traditional you know
Speaker 2: narrative that we've been known to. This is a sign
Speaker 2: that you know, people are embracing different ways of seeing
Speaker 2: the world and I think that is quite pleasing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how do you think Christmas marketing has evolved over
Speaker 1: the years and what's like kind of stayed the same
Speaker 1: and what's really different.
Speaker 2: Well, I think Christmas marketing, some aspects of it have
Speaker 2: really changed, you know, has really changed over the years.
Speaker 2: I think we have moved a little bit away from
Speaker 2: the traditional perhaps products you know, material focused campaigns that
Speaker 2: traditionally historically use the print and broadcast media you know,
Speaker 2: like as the primary venue, you know, like to get
Speaker 2: out there two more contemporary and perhaps emotionally and values
Speaker 2: driven marketing that uses a lot more of social media
Speaker 2: and storytelling to create a connection, you know, like with people,
Speaker 2: you know, with in the end, we're still talking about buying,
Speaker 2: you know, like we're still talking about purchasing items. But
Speaker 2: I think that's storytelling aspects and that emotional aspects. It
Speaker 2: has become a lot more central to marketing that perhaps
Speaker 2: it has been historically.
Speaker 5: Now.
Speaker 2: Key factors that might have influenced this, of course, include
Speaker 2: the rise of online shopping. A lot more people do
Speaker 2: their shopping online, so we have needed to change, you know,
Speaker 2: like how we create that connection. The use of digital
Speaker 2: platforms for targeted advertising, including platforms such as Instagram that
Speaker 2: are very picture you know, like emotional focused, you know,
Speaker 2: like that emotional response, and of course an evolution in
Speaker 2: you know, campaigns that tend to reflect social values a
Speaker 2: lot more. I think traditionally Christmas marketing as tend to
Speaker 2: put forward a very family still Christian inspired, family centric narrative,
Speaker 2: while we see our Christmas marketing has become, you know,
Speaker 2: in the digital world, a lot more diverse and a
Speaker 2: lot more inclusive of different experience and experiences and different situations.
Speaker 2: And of course within that, I think there is the understanding,
Speaker 2: you know, like in the shift that for the majority
Speaker 2: of people, not all, but for a good portion of
Speaker 2: the population. Christmas is a secular experience rather than perhaps
Speaker 2: a Christian one, but still places an emphasis on community,
Speaker 2: on family, on the importance of coming together, and the
Speaker 2: importance of celebrating. So I think Christmas marketing has taken
Speaker 2: all those shifts, social and cultural shifts into account to
Speaker 2: present us with something that is a lot more focused
Speaker 2: on experience rather than the product itself that they're selling, Like,
Speaker 2: what is this going to do for me? On? Do
Speaker 2: this to create memories? You know, the idea of creative
Speaker 2: memories is very, very central, I think to Christmas marketing,
Speaker 2: and we see it even with the types of products
Speaker 2: that have become very central, you know, to a lot
Speaker 2: of our Christmas experiences, like taking Christmas photos with the family.
Speaker 2: You know, that's become one of the big sellers like Christmas,
Speaker 2: you know, rather than just gifting something's gifting the experience
Speaker 2: and gifted memory. So we definitely see that shift and
Speaker 2: the emotional storytelling and the message focused marketing has become
Speaker 2: very central. But of course we're not forgetting the material side,
Speaker 2: you know, the experience, the big windows displays, et cetera,
Speaker 2: et cetera, the lights, the decorations, even in the streets
Speaker 2: are still there, so we see I think a bit
Speaker 2: more of a balanced experience with Christmas marketing that takes
Speaker 2: into account the product, of course we're still selling, but
Speaker 2: also puts in the foreground the experience of Christmas and
Speaker 2: why it's meaningful for people.
Speaker 3: Could it be so it came without ribbons, it came
Speaker 3: without tags, It came without packages, boxes or bags.
Speaker 5: He puzzled and puzzed to he's puzzle of a saw.
Speaker 5: Then the Grinch thought of something he hadn't before. Maybe Christmas,
Speaker 5: he thought, doesn't come from a store. Maybe Christmas perhaps
Speaker 5: means a little bit more.
Speaker 1: When you said that, the emotional switch on the ads
Speaker 1: immediately made me think of the John Lewis ads ink. Yes,
Speaker 1: so every year they come out with one, and it's
Speaker 1: like they're coming out with them every year to see
Speaker 1: how many more people they can get to cry. Really,
Speaker 1: the one that comes to my mind is the Elton
Speaker 1: John one, but they're really famous for bringing that that,
Speaker 1: you know, that loving and caring and so it really
Speaker 1: is that kind of marketing switch from bye bye bye
Speaker 1: to you know, what can you do for your family
Speaker 1: and your friends and everything for Christmas? Absolutely, On one hand, though,
Speaker 1: I actually have seen a more sustainable approach to Christmas.
Speaker 1: I actually found myself watching a whole bunch of TikTok
Speaker 1: videos on how to wrap presents and silk scarves. But
Speaker 1: on the other hand, I also have seen those videos
Speaker 1: of influences with a massive tree with you know, presence
Speaker 1: piled up to the ceiling. So there are those two extremes,
Speaker 1: for sure, what do you make of that?
Speaker 2: I think absolutely I've also seen, you know, like the
Speaker 2: pictures with Christmas, you know, like the bigger, the better, right,
Speaker 2: you know, like huge Christmas trees going all the way
Speaker 2: to the ceiling and so many presents that you gotta wonder,
Speaker 2: you know, what's in all those boxes, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 2: And also a push I think for influencers to put
Speaker 2: forward Christmas products, things like Advan calendars you all like
Speaker 2: that again put the emphasis on that materialistic side, which
Speaker 2: eventually is a little bit of a throwaway experience when
Speaker 2: it comes to it, with all the packaging. But I've
Speaker 2: also I agree with you that I've also seen a
Speaker 2: rise in a desire for a more sustainable Christmas with
Speaker 2: many people, and even we see this on social media,
Speaker 2: you know, like so many videos and so many tips
Speaker 2: for adopting a more environmentally conscious you know, a way
Speaker 2: to reduce and ways to reduce waste or you know,
Speaker 2: choosing eco friendly gifts made with eco friendly materials. I
Speaker 2: think there's a lot more conscious consciousness and you know,
Speaker 2: desire to engage in that. And of course even with
Speaker 2: the our Christmas lunches and our Christmas meals, opting for
Speaker 2: more local and seasonal foods, you know, like for the
Speaker 2: Christmas season, there's definitely been a rise in that and
Speaker 2: I've seen it in a lot of different contexts. So
Speaker 2: this also includes embracing experiences, like we said, over material goods.
Speaker 2: That is also part of that sustainability, you know, like
Speaker 2: there goes hand in hand with the desire to feel
Speaker 2: connected to people and look after the planet, you know.
Speaker 2: I think that is all part of the same narrative reusing,
Speaker 2: you know, using reusable gift wrapping, perhaps his scarf or
Speaker 2: perhaps just beautiful fabric that can be used, you know,
Speaker 2: like a year in and year out. I've also seen
Speaker 2: several lines of reusable Christmas crackers, you know, Christmas farm.
Speaker 1: Bars yes so long actually, yes, that.
Speaker 2: You can make yourself every year. And also choose much
Speaker 2: more meaningful little gifts that you can give, you know,
Speaker 2: to your friends and family and be sustainable in the
Speaker 2: process as well. So there's definitely a conscious effort, and
Speaker 2: these are just examples of sustainability, you know, becoming part
Speaker 2: you know of how many people think about their daily lives,
Speaker 2: their interest in the planet, their interest in being environmentally conscious,
Speaker 2: and also how it goes hand in hand with building memories.
Speaker 2: Building experiences is now a normal part of our Christmas
Speaker 2: life abrations.
Speaker 1: So lastly, Launa, do you in fact think the Grinch
Speaker 1: will steal Christmas?
Speaker 2: I've certainly been trying for quite a few years now.
Speaker 1: I think the.
Speaker 2: Grinch may have come to accepted that some parts of
Speaker 2: Christmas might be his. And you know, it never turns
Speaker 2: down an opportunity for bar and humbug, which I think
Speaker 2: some of us might want to join in a little bit.
Speaker 2: But I think, like with everything, a little bit of
Speaker 2: balance it makes for a much happier experience at Christmas.
Speaker 2: And in the end, everyone should do what brings their
Speaker 2: joy and brings them joy and you know, like do
Speaker 2: with their heart's desire to have the best experience they
Speaker 2: can at Christmas.
Speaker 1: Thanks so much, for joining us, Lorna.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You
Speaker 1: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage
Speaker 1: at enzidhrald dot co dot nz. Front Page is produced
Speaker 1: by Jane Yee and Richard Martin, who is also our editor.
Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page on iHeartRadio
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow
Speaker 1: for another look behind the headlines.