1 00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:05,960 Speaker 1: Kiota. 2 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,200 Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 3 00:00:09,280 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by. 4 00:00:11,400 --> 00:00:12,600 Speaker 1: The New Zealand Herald. 5 00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:20,840 Speaker 2: US doctors will soon be advised not to prescribe paracetamol 6 00:00:21,000 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 2: to pregnant women after President Donald Trump claimed an increased 7 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:30,560 Speaker 2: autism risk. He cited the unproven link as a major 8 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:34,520 Speaker 2: factor in the rise of diagnoses. The call has been 9 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:39,520 Speaker 2: criticized worldwide, with ministries of health globally moving to put 10 00:00:39,520 --> 00:00:43,440 Speaker 2: out the flames. Experts have labeled the rhetoric as quite 11 00:00:43,520 --> 00:00:48,840 Speaker 2: scary and really damaging. Today on the Front Page, University 12 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:53,519 Speaker 2: of Otago pediatrics and Child health science officer Joanne Dacom 13 00:00:53,640 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 2: is with us to dive into how comments like this 14 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 2: affect autistics and their families. Let's start with an easy one. 15 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 2: Can you tell me what autism is? 16 00:01:08,760 --> 00:01:13,600 Speaker 3: Essentially, it's a neuro developmental condition that impact are on 17 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:19,959 Speaker 3: people's ability to have social communication, to have interactions with 18 00:01:20,080 --> 00:01:22,640 Speaker 3: others and have and also impact how they live in 19 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 3: the world. Do you know if they have sensory issues. 20 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:28,200 Speaker 3: You know, a lot of autistic people will have a 21 00:01:28,240 --> 00:01:33,480 Speaker 3: lot to contend with with just fitting into the world generally. 22 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 3: But essentially it's considered a communication disorder, and I really 23 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,720 Speaker 3: hate that word disorder because you know, it's it's just 24 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 3: a different way of being. 25 00:01:44,680 --> 00:01:47,640 Speaker 2: So what would be the proper term to refer to 26 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 2: autism as a condition or a person with autism? 27 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 3: Well, really it's up to them how they want to identify. I, 28 00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:59,840 Speaker 3: myself and many of the people in my community for 29 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:04,120 Speaker 3: autistic people rather than people with autism, because we consider 30 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 3: it an es central part of who we are. It's 31 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:10,960 Speaker 3: not a separate thing that we carry around with us 32 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:13,440 Speaker 3: or that can be sort of sliced off from us. 33 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:19,200 Speaker 3: So we go with identity first. Language Like the deaf community. 34 00:02:18,919 --> 00:02:21,679 Speaker 2: Autism doesn't always manifest in the same way though, right, 35 00:02:21,720 --> 00:02:24,239 Speaker 2: I mean you often hear about it as a spectrum. 36 00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 3: Correct, So there is a spectrum, and it not necessarily 37 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 3: sort of linear, which a lot of people assume. I identifink 38 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 3: there's sprinter skills. So some people might have really high 39 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:39,960 Speaker 3: ability in terms of academics but have really poor social skills. 40 00:02:40,360 --> 00:02:44,119 Speaker 3: Or some people may be able to recite a lot 41 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 3: of knowledge but yet not be able to do small talk, 42 00:02:49,040 --> 00:02:52,560 Speaker 3: for example. So it is a it is a spectrum 43 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 3: that it's more like a color wheel where you can 44 00:02:55,280 --> 00:03:00,840 Speaker 3: have different sites, different sort of percent to jet across it, 45 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:03,720 Speaker 3: if you like pie Chat or color wheel, about where 46 00:03:03,760 --> 00:03:07,400 Speaker 3: you might where your skills might lie. And that's why 47 00:03:07,400 --> 00:03:11,280 Speaker 3: it's so vastly different from one autistic person to another. 48 00:03:11,520 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 2: And I guess that's why it would be frustrating to 49 00:03:13,840 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 2: have I don't know, the President of the United States 50 00:03:17,280 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 2: call it something that's wrong or that needs to be fixed. 51 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:22,799 Speaker 1: I mean, how did you. 52 00:03:22,840 --> 00:03:28,120 Speaker 2: First feel when you heard something like what Donald Trump said? 53 00:03:29,160 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 3: Well, you know, like because I am autistic, you know, 54 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 3: it's really tiring have to justify my existence, you know. 55 00:03:36,080 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 3: Trump announcement with a painful reminder for myself and many 56 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 3: other autistics of how autistic people are often shamed and 57 00:03:44,280 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 3: painted as a tragedy or a burden, you know, but 58 00:03:47,760 --> 00:03:51,960 Speaker 3: really we just simply experienced a natural variation of the 59 00:03:52,040 --> 00:03:54,520 Speaker 3: human condition. And I guess we feel like we have 60 00:03:54,560 --> 00:03:58,280 Speaker 3: to defend ourselves for the right to exist. And because 61 00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 3: some parts of the world are on people like Trump 62 00:04:00,960 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 3: think that autism should be eradicated because we've seen it 63 00:04:04,360 --> 00:04:08,160 Speaker 3: a problem, you know, that we need to be solved 64 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 3: to exploring quarters and treatment, and basically he would look 65 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 3: to eliminate. 66 00:04:14,240 --> 00:04:16,720 Speaker 2: It well, and that's the basic fact of the matter, 67 00:04:16,839 --> 00:04:19,560 Speaker 2: is that it's not a disease or an epidemic. 68 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 1: It's a way of being. 69 00:04:24,000 --> 00:04:26,240 Speaker 3: And we're definitely not a disease and we're not a sickness, 70 00:04:26,240 --> 00:04:31,200 Speaker 3: and we're not an epidemic, you know. And he fails 71 00:04:31,240 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 3: to see that, and I guess because he is looking 72 00:04:35,880 --> 00:04:40,080 Speaker 3: at only perhaps autistics who have very high and complex needs, 73 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:43,239 Speaker 3: but he's ignoring the fact that many of those people 74 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 3: would have other co occurring conditions that are impacting on 75 00:04:48,760 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 3: the autism. 76 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:53,440 Speaker 2: Now, there have been many studies over the years trying 77 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:58,040 Speaker 2: to prove different things. A lot of them blame mothers 78 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,960 Speaker 2: and blame medicines and back scenes, et cetera. But it's true, 79 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:05,880 Speaker 2: isn't it that genetics are a primary cause, correct? 80 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:09,719 Speaker 3: You know? For example, in my family, I'm autistic, my 81 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:15,320 Speaker 3: son is autistic, and his oldest son is also autistic. 82 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:19,640 Speaker 3: So there's definitely a clear genetic are current clear And 83 00:05:20,000 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 3: that would be the same for many many families where 84 00:05:23,760 --> 00:05:30,360 Speaker 3: genetics plays a role. Not necessarily hereditary, but definitely there's 85 00:05:30,360 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 3: a lot of genetics that come into play. And it's 86 00:05:34,440 --> 00:05:39,279 Speaker 3: not just one gene. It's a range of genetic hints 87 00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:42,360 Speaker 3: the spectrum, but it's also what happens if you have 88 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 3: cooccurring conditions and how those genes impact on autium as well. 89 00:05:49,240 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 2: How do comments and conversations like the ones that came 90 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,480 Speaker 2: up when Trump said, you know that Thailand old pregnant 91 00:05:56,480 --> 00:06:00,520 Speaker 2: women shouldn't have thailand ol, How does that affect the 92 00:06:00,560 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 2: autistic community and their families? 93 00:06:02,720 --> 00:06:04,640 Speaker 1: I suppose well, I mean. 94 00:06:04,560 --> 00:06:08,080 Speaker 3: Like I said, I'm also an autentic mother, so of 95 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 3: an autiftic son. So I guess it feels like an 96 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:14,920 Speaker 3: ongoing trend or a resurrection of the trend of mother 97 00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,400 Speaker 3: blaming that we had in the nineteen fifty we had 98 00:06:17,440 --> 00:06:23,159 Speaker 3: refrigerator mothers. Then we've had various things about mothers being 99 00:06:23,200 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 3: blamed for what they ate or what we did or 100 00:06:25,279 --> 00:06:30,720 Speaker 3: didn't do, and bad parenting, and it's all really damaging 101 00:06:30,720 --> 00:06:33,599 Speaker 3: for families, and it's really damaging for autistics as well. 102 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:37,920 Speaker 3: And the blame rhetoric is really unhelpful in our day 103 00:06:37,920 --> 00:06:41,560 Speaker 3: to day lives. The continent sort of recycling of debunct 104 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:46,840 Speaker 3: myths only feel stigma and harm for autistic people and 105 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:49,960 Speaker 3: their families, you know, And the danger lies in the 106 00:06:50,000 --> 00:06:54,000 Speaker 3: ideas that get planted in people's hands and the results 107 00:06:54,040 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 3: that might occur. You know, some mothers might be plunged 108 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:00,920 Speaker 3: into despair thinking, oh I did that, did this? Thinking 109 00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 3: that it has to have a blame and there should 110 00:07:03,760 --> 00:07:07,679 Speaker 3: be no blame attached to it. You know, Autism conversations 111 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 3: should instead be about inclusion and support. 112 00:07:10,720 --> 00:07:13,560 Speaker 2: And in terms of inclusion and support, do you think 113 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:15,800 Speaker 2: that there is enough in New Zealand at the moment. 114 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 3: There's never enough. There's never enough. There's always more that 115 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 3: can be done around inclusion. You know, we need inclusive schools, 116 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:33,760 Speaker 3: we need an inclusive curriculum, we needive inclusive employment opportunities 117 00:07:33,800 --> 00:07:38,920 Speaker 3: and practices. We need a range of inclusive support to 118 00:07:39,040 --> 00:07:41,560 Speaker 3: really have true inclusion here in New Zealand. So it's 119 00:07:41,560 --> 00:07:44,920 Speaker 3: got a way to go. You know, we've started, but 120 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 3: it's going to be a journey. 121 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:58,600 Speaker 4: The meteoric rise in autism is among the most alarming 122 00:07:58,640 --> 00:08:00,720 Speaker 4: public health developments in history. 123 00:08:00,880 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 5: There's never been anything like this. 124 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,160 Speaker 4: Just a few decades ago, one in ten thousand children 125 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 4: had autism. 126 00:08:08,320 --> 00:08:10,239 Speaker 5: So that's not a long time. 127 00:08:10,440 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 4: And I've always heard, you know, they say a few, 128 00:08:13,080 --> 00:08:15,440 Speaker 4: but I think it's a lot less. 129 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 5: Time than that. 130 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 4: It used to be one in twenty thousand than one 131 00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 4: in ten thousand, and I would say that's probably eighteen 132 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 4: years ago, and now it's one in thirty one. 133 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:31,760 Speaker 5: But in some areas it's much. 134 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 4: Worse than that, if you can believe it one in 135 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:34,880 Speaker 4: thirty one. 136 00:08:36,559 --> 00:08:41,559 Speaker 2: What's an example of how something has changed and bettered 137 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 2: that inclusion And can you give me an example of perhaps. 138 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: A thing that needs to change. 139 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:52,000 Speaker 3: Well, I think about things that have improved. Autism research 140 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,680 Speaker 3: in New Zealand used to be done to us, not 141 00:08:54,800 --> 00:08:58,040 Speaker 3: with us, and now we have much more what I 142 00:08:58,080 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 3: would call participatory research where autistics can actually be involved 143 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:06,920 Speaker 3: in research that is about them, and we have partnerships 144 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 3: that help facilitate that. We have a new out of 145 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 3: Kanterby University, there's an auti and Research Center. Now we 146 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 3: autestics are often leading the research as well, so that's 147 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:20,840 Speaker 3: really exciting. So I see that as a really positive 148 00:09:20,880 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 3: step towards inclusion. Things that school can be done. I 149 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:29,920 Speaker 3: believe while some schools have really inclusive leadership and practices, 150 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,520 Speaker 3: there are other schools that have a long way to go. 151 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 3: And I pick on schools only because starting early with 152 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 3: inclusion from even preschool sets the tone for how society 153 00:09:44,120 --> 00:09:48,320 Speaker 3: will learn to accept autistics. And if schools don't, if 154 00:09:48,559 --> 00:09:52,080 Speaker 3: classrooms aren't, if teachers don't, then that's going to be 155 00:09:52,240 --> 00:09:56,840 Speaker 3: mirrored out in society. So that's the only reason I 156 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,679 Speaker 3: pick on schools. But there are likely very many other 157 00:09:59,679 --> 00:10:03,040 Speaker 3: ex you know, the justice system. Many people who are 158 00:10:03,120 --> 00:10:07,040 Speaker 3: encarculated are actually very likely to be autistical. Hey about 159 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:08,839 Speaker 3: I'm your diverse condition. 160 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,600 Speaker 2: And I guess even visibility and understanding as well is 161 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:14,920 Speaker 2: a really important part. I don't know if you've seen 162 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,480 Speaker 2: these videos on TikTok and social media, but there's this 163 00:10:18,640 --> 00:10:22,480 Speaker 2: trend that says, you know, what kind of autistic are you? 164 00:10:22,760 --> 00:10:25,640 Speaker 2: And then it like you add to the video and 165 00:10:25,720 --> 00:10:28,320 Speaker 2: people show off what they're interested in. 166 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 5: However, are artism? 167 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:33,440 Speaker 2: Did you guys get I got the cone where I 168 00:10:33,440 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 2: took a part on my accounts while watching more of 169 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:36,600 Speaker 2: the Rings. 170 00:10:36,760 --> 00:10:39,079 Speaker 5: That is such a great question, Messie. 171 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:42,560 Speaker 3: So I collect bugs and I also watched Tangled every 172 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:45,360 Speaker 3: single day. I also wear the same shoes every day. 173 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:47,480 Speaker 2: I've got a variety. 174 00:10:48,960 --> 00:10:52,319 Speaker 5: I also hate bugs on rocks. 175 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:54,800 Speaker 3: I have an obsession with more crickets, have a lot 176 00:10:54,840 --> 00:10:57,119 Speaker 3: of more crickets. What crickets. 177 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 5: I love more crickets. I got the kind where for 178 00:11:00,280 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 5: my life saving is on shiny rocks. I have the 179 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 5: one where I created an entire language. 180 00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:12,240 Speaker 2: Give it a whole dictionary, grammatical rules and law. I 181 00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:15,400 Speaker 2: find those really enjoyable to watch because, you know, it 182 00:11:15,520 --> 00:11:18,480 Speaker 2: shows that it's not a problem to be solved, it's 183 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:21,120 Speaker 2: actually a really special. 184 00:11:22,200 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 1: Way of looking and thinking and being in the world. 185 00:11:25,520 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 3: I think that's really exciting, and that's some of the 186 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,240 Speaker 3: changes that we've seen. We've also seen lots of changes 187 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 3: in terms of how we indicate people about autism. For 188 00:11:34,840 --> 00:11:38,560 Speaker 3: example that you mentioned TikTok video, where all ticals are 189 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 3: able to articulate for themselves in different ways ways that 190 00:11:41,920 --> 00:11:45,520 Speaker 3: suit them, about how they are in the world, how 191 00:11:45,559 --> 00:11:48,720 Speaker 3: autratum impacts on them, and they might talk about the 192 00:11:48,760 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 3: strength that they won't deny the challenges. 193 00:11:51,320 --> 00:11:51,520 Speaker 5: You know. 194 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 3: So I think that that's really kind of exciting. That's 195 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:56,640 Speaker 3: a really big change. Where before it used to be 196 00:11:56,960 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 3: organizations talking about us, not necessarily in a very way. Nowadays, 197 00:12:01,520 --> 00:12:07,080 Speaker 3: autritive organizations in this country, not necessarily America, but autracive 198 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,560 Speaker 3: organizations in this country have come to that slame conclusion. 199 00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 3: As yourself, that it's just a different way of being 200 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:17,120 Speaker 3: and how can we support autistics and their families to 201 00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:19,960 Speaker 3: grow together on this journey of autism. 202 00:12:20,559 --> 00:12:24,800 Speaker 2: And in terms of what the conversation that's being had 203 00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:27,520 Speaker 2: now you've obviously we're been working in the space and 204 00:12:27,960 --> 00:12:32,920 Speaker 2: you're autistic yourself. In terms of that cyclical nature of 205 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 2: those myths, you know, constantly coming up and then being debunked, 206 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 2: coming up again being debunked, I mean a must get 207 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:41,560 Speaker 2: really tiring. 208 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 1: But b over the years, has it gotten any better? 209 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:50,000 Speaker 3: I think it's got better in this country, but there'll 210 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 3: always be some people that latch onto those ideas and 211 00:12:53,640 --> 00:12:56,520 Speaker 3: push them. You sometimes see it in some of the 212 00:12:56,679 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 3: social media platforms where there are groups and people come 213 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:04,719 Speaker 3: together and the key we often have a much more 214 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 3: positive framing around autism, but some still latch onto the 215 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:12,920 Speaker 3: idea that it's all vaccnes. You know, even though there 216 00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:16,880 Speaker 3: have been so many studies that have debunked vaccines called autism, 217 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 3: there are still some I find, particularly probably older people, 218 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,520 Speaker 3: still cling to that idea that it was vaccings that 219 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:28,280 Speaker 3: caused their child autism and therefore, you know, vaccines are 220 00:13:28,320 --> 00:13:31,640 Speaker 3: to blame, and they latch onto the idea of big 221 00:13:31,679 --> 00:13:36,679 Speaker 3: farmer and conspiracy theories along that line. But I'm finding 222 00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,599 Speaker 3: that the younger generation do not hold to that that 223 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:43,920 Speaker 3: they are very much learning to perhaps even see that 224 00:13:43,960 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 3: autism is not an actual disability. They just see it 225 00:13:47,160 --> 00:13:50,760 Speaker 3: as a different way of being. I still recognize autism 226 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:54,880 Speaker 3: as a disability because it can be disabling. You know, 227 00:13:54,920 --> 00:13:59,160 Speaker 3: the societal barriers are still there. It can be hard 228 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:04,640 Speaker 3: to deal with some of the challenges around social censoring sensitivities, 229 00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 3: you know, So there are a lot of challenges that 230 00:14:06,840 --> 00:14:10,240 Speaker 3: still exist. But I'm really pleased with the framing that 231 00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,719 Speaker 3: we have in New Zealand, and I think we are 232 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:16,720 Speaker 3: hoping that we won't be unduly influenced by statements made 233 00:14:16,720 --> 00:14:20,040 Speaker 3: by Trump and RSK and that's been really happening to 234 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 3: see and I see it also coming out of Australia 235 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 3: as well, that the de bunking things that have come 236 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:28,200 Speaker 3: from the White House. 237 00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:33,400 Speaker 2: And just lastly, Joanne, if you wanted to tell somebody 238 00:14:33,520 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 2: something about what it's like being autistic, how would you 239 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,320 Speaker 2: describe yourself and how would you describe it to someone? 240 00:14:42,360 --> 00:14:44,240 Speaker 1: What's something that you would want them to know. 241 00:14:44,880 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 3: I guess for me, personally, autism results in a lot 242 00:14:48,840 --> 00:14:53,200 Speaker 3: of masking. You know, I'm always really conscious. I almost 243 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,720 Speaker 3: feel like sometimes I still have to justify my existence. 244 00:14:56,920 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 3: I have to prove myself over and over again, even 245 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,840 Speaker 3: though most of the people around me don't expect that. 246 00:15:04,680 --> 00:15:07,680 Speaker 3: I still feel like the rest of society is out 247 00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,920 Speaker 3: there looking for me to be some sort of you have, 248 00:15:11,080 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 3: some sort of superpower, and I don't regard for me personally, 249 00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:16,480 Speaker 3: I don't regard autritum as a superpower. I see that 250 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 3: I have strengths that come with it, but there are 251 00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:22,040 Speaker 3: also the challenges, and those challenges are very real. You know. 252 00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,320 Speaker 3: Fatigued is very real. Co occurring conditions that come with 253 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,080 Speaker 3: autra are very real for me. I have often battled depression, 254 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 3: and that's a real challenge in the day to day 255 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 3: living that I have to do. I think that that's 256 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 3: where the supports from society, you know, can really make 257 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,360 Speaker 3: a difference, you know, where people are accepted for who 258 00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 3: they are. 259 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,040 Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us, Joanne, You very welcome. 260 00:15:50,840 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 261 00:15:54,000 --> 00:15:57,760 Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 262 00:15:57,800 --> 00:15:59,960 Speaker 2: at NSI Herald dot co dot m. 263 00:16:00,920 --> 00:16:02,840 Speaker 1: The Front Page is produced. 264 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,760 Speaker 2: By Jane Yee and Richard Martin, who is also our editor. 265 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels. 266 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,360 Speaker 2: Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you 267 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,720 Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and tune in on Monday for another 268 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,240 Speaker 2: look behind the headlines.