1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:02,600 Speaker 1: The ZM podcast Network. 2 00:00:04,240 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 2: I couldn't control my emotions, especially my anger, and it 3 00:00:07,680 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 2: was just boiling over into every part of my life. 4 00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:14,560 Speaker 2: Having that stigma where people have that misunderstanding of BPD 5 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,880 Speaker 2: that they instantly think, oh, this person has BPD, they're 6 00:00:17,920 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 2: really unstable, and that's just not true. 7 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: Hi, good morning, good afternoon, good evening, or whatever time 8 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: soon or whatever time that you're listening to. This. This 9 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:31,120 Speaker 1: is Hope is Real the podcast. The podcast designed to 10 00:00:31,160 --> 00:00:34,280 Speaker 1: help you feel a little less alone, a bit more inspired, 11 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:38,120 Speaker 1: and a lot more hopeful. Now, today's episode is one 12 00:00:38,159 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 1: that I am really excited about. I know that I 13 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:42,920 Speaker 1: say that every single episode, but it's because it's true. 14 00:00:43,240 --> 00:00:46,120 Speaker 1: But this person is someone that I recently actually just 15 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,159 Speaker 1: met when we were recording of Voices of Hope campaign. 16 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,800 Speaker 1: Her name is Breal and she's a counselor from Altedola, 17 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,880 Speaker 1: from New Zealand, and she lives with borderline personality disorder. 18 00:00:58,200 --> 00:01:01,640 Speaker 1: She was diagnosed at thirty and her whole world kind 19 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: of shifted. Brielle's story is one that is both heart 20 00:01:05,680 --> 00:01:09,759 Speaker 1: wrenching but also so inspiring and touches on a whole 21 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,400 Speaker 1: lot of different things. The girl moved to Russia. When 22 00:01:12,440 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: she was a child, she experienced a lot of bullying, 23 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 1: and we kind of unpack what was it that led 24 00:01:18,200 --> 00:01:21,240 Speaker 1: to her BPD diagnosis, how did she feel about it, 25 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:24,399 Speaker 1: how did her family react, kind of unpacking a whole 26 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:27,479 Speaker 1: bunch of stuff that happened along the way. And again, 27 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,480 Speaker 1: Brielle was someone that as I was interviewing her for 28 00:01:30,520 --> 00:01:33,720 Speaker 1: the Voices of Hope Project, I was just like, man, 29 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:35,760 Speaker 1: I need to know more. I need to know more 30 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,640 Speaker 1: of her story. And this episode is filled with tangents 31 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:41,280 Speaker 1: and a whole lot of stuff that we just as 32 00:01:41,360 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: we talk about we kind of we literally talk about 33 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 1: everything and anything under the sun. But it's a beautiful episode. 34 00:01:46,920 --> 00:01:50,320 Speaker 1: She's a beautiful person. And again, as always trigger warning 35 00:01:50,440 --> 00:01:52,320 Speaker 1: for the kind of things that we do talk about. 36 00:01:52,360 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 1: If you have BPD or you know someone with BPD, 37 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: this is a great episode for you, but do take 38 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,520 Speaker 1: your time and know that at any point you can 39 00:01:59,560 --> 00:02:01,600 Speaker 1: stop it. You can come back to it, talk to 40 00:02:01,600 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 1: people if you need to. But Brielle's story is coming 41 00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 1: up right after this Brea. Welcome to Hope for is 42 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,800 Speaker 1: a real podcast. I'm really excited to have you on. 43 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 1: I actually got to interview you recently for Voices of 44 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:20,120 Speaker 1: Hope project, and as I was talking to you, I 45 00:02:20,200 --> 00:02:22,120 Speaker 1: was like, I need to know more. I need to 46 00:02:22,360 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: sit down with you, I need to have you on here, 47 00:02:24,720 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: and I'm super super excited. So for Federal, thank you 48 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:29,639 Speaker 1: for coming, Thank you for having me. Oh my gosh. 49 00:02:29,639 --> 00:02:32,639 Speaker 1: Of course, when we were talking on the project that 50 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:37,239 Speaker 1: we were doing, I was just really captivated and amazed 51 00:02:37,280 --> 00:02:39,440 Speaker 1: by the way that you were able to articulate a 52 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,519 Speaker 1: lot of things that specifically here in an ALTI but 53 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: also around the world is so stigmatized. And I'm going 54 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,399 Speaker 1: to kind of just honestly dive straight in. You were 55 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:55,520 Speaker 1: diagnosed with borderline personality disorder, which for a lot of people, 56 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,280 Speaker 1: and especially I would say, in the healthcare system, and 57 00:02:59,160 --> 00:03:01,720 Speaker 1: kind of just glow believe there's so much stigma and 58 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: so much misunderstanding. But not only are you diagnosed with BPD, 59 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: you're also a counselor, yes, which is like just phenomenal, 60 00:03:11,080 --> 00:03:13,480 Speaker 1: and so I would love to know kind of I 61 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:15,000 Speaker 1: will kind of go back and forth a little bit. 62 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:16,639 Speaker 1: I want to know about you childhood and stuff soon. 63 00:03:16,720 --> 00:03:20,880 Speaker 1: But when you got that diagnosis of BPD, can you 64 00:03:20,919 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: tell me what happened? What was the lead up? What happened? 65 00:03:24,040 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: How did you feel? So? 66 00:03:28,120 --> 00:03:32,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, So the lead up to it was I was, 67 00:03:32,560 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 2: I think mentally in a really really really rough place, 68 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 2: and I think I'd reached a point where I just 69 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,880 Speaker 2: did not know who I was anymore. 70 00:03:45,720 --> 00:03:47,720 Speaker 3: And I knew. 71 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:52,440 Speaker 2: That it had gotten to a point where, you know, 72 00:03:52,640 --> 00:03:56,200 Speaker 2: I'd been struggling with depression my whole life, like that 73 00:03:56,400 --> 00:03:59,800 Speaker 2: was just a given since definitely since I was seventeen, 74 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 2: and at this point I was, I was thirty, you know, 75 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:05,440 Speaker 2: but this had just reached a point where. 76 00:04:05,280 --> 00:04:07,120 Speaker 3: It was, you know, this wasn't it. 77 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:10,800 Speaker 1: And I was living in England at the. 78 00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 2: Time, and my GP was like, you know, we've tried 79 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,720 Speaker 2: all these different medications, you've tried all this. You know, 80 00:04:18,320 --> 00:04:25,080 Speaker 2: you've tried therapy. I'm gonna refer you to a psychiatrist. 81 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:30,120 Speaker 2: I was angry all the time. I was emotional all 82 00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:34,640 Speaker 2: the time. I couldn't control my emotions, could especially my 83 00:04:34,680 --> 00:04:40,840 Speaker 2: anger over the most ridiculous things, and it was just 84 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 2: becoming something that I just couldn't have any control over 85 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,359 Speaker 2: and it was just boiling over into every. 86 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: Part of my life. 87 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,920 Speaker 2: And I went and saw the public psychiatrist within England, 88 00:04:57,320 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 2: and it took a few times to go and see 89 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,080 Speaker 2: different psychiatrists because it was the public systems. 90 00:05:03,120 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: You didn't see the same psychiatrist. 91 00:05:05,520 --> 00:05:09,679 Speaker 2: Bumpy Road because obviously you don't get a straight answer. 92 00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 2: So initially they thought, obviously it might be bipolar, but 93 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: eventually they diagnosed me with borderline personality disorder or emotional 94 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:27,040 Speaker 2: instability personality disorder. How do you feel about that title 95 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 2: emotional instability? Yeah, it frustrates me. Yeah, it immensely frustrates 96 00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 2: me because that means that it's just emotional instability that 97 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:46,800 Speaker 2: encapsulates one part of what borderline personality is. 98 00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:49,640 Speaker 1: I also think that that specific title is what also 99 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: creates so much of the stigma, right, is like that 100 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:55,720 Speaker 1: it's you just can't, you can't control your emotions and 101 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: it's just too like and obviously, like you said, that's 102 00:05:58,240 --> 00:05:59,960 Speaker 1: a part of it. But then when you are deal 103 00:06:00,320 --> 00:06:04,200 Speaker 1: with like physical health things and a physical health like 104 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,960 Speaker 1: setting and then they see you've got BBD, it's an 105 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 1: immediate kind of switch in their brain of like what's 106 00:06:11,080 --> 00:06:13,039 Speaker 1: actually going on. And that's because of all of these 107 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:16,560 Speaker 1: other bloody things that it's been kind of thrown around 108 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: as how did you feel when you found out that 109 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 1: you had that diagnosis. 110 00:06:22,520 --> 00:06:30,679 Speaker 2: Peace, because well, a range of different emotions eventually peace, 111 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:37,919 Speaker 2: I should say, mainly peace, But I think initially terrified 112 00:06:38,560 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 2: purely because they don't they don't really set you up 113 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:49,000 Speaker 2: to feel or to understand exactly what it is. They're 114 00:06:49,040 --> 00:06:54,080 Speaker 2: sort of like, here's your diagnosis, bye bye. And they 115 00:06:54,120 --> 00:06:57,960 Speaker 2: also they do like a check in sort of afterwards, 116 00:06:58,600 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 2: and they don't really support you in that way because 117 00:07:01,960 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 2: obviously they also said to me, you can also get 118 00:07:06,320 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 2: over it by. 119 00:07:09,760 --> 00:07:16,120 Speaker 1: Having a life event, So get married or have a baby. Huh. Yeah, 120 00:07:16,160 --> 00:07:18,200 Speaker 1: you can get over it by having a life event. 121 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:22,160 Speaker 1: A life event. That's the cure, the cure, the cure. 122 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, what is going on? 123 00:07:25,400 --> 00:07:27,520 Speaker 1: Yes, okay, that's. 124 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:28,920 Speaker 3: I have not heard that. 125 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,680 Speaker 1: You're obviously so you've got that's from a lens of 126 00:07:31,720 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 1: someone who has been diagnosed with BBD. You also have 127 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,160 Speaker 1: this from a lens of someone who's a counselor on 128 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:40,120 Speaker 1: your counselor brain. What is your response to that? 129 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 2: So I can look at it from multiple lenses, from 130 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:45,680 Speaker 2: a from a from a lens of a of a 131 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:49,560 Speaker 2: person who has borderline personality disorder? How do I say 132 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 2: this diplomatically. That's just not true. That's just not true. Yeah, 133 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,960 Speaker 2: a life event is not a cure for mental health. 134 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: I just need to know where this guy got his 135 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:07,520 Speaker 1: license from. That's just like, I'm sorry. If that was 136 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: the cure, I think we'd all just go get married 137 00:08:09,760 --> 00:08:10,840 Speaker 1: and pop a baby out. 138 00:08:10,880 --> 00:08:13,360 Speaker 2: Like I mean, at the time, I was a teacher, 139 00:08:14,480 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 2: so I wasn't a counselor. I mean, with my counselor 140 00:08:17,840 --> 00:08:21,840 Speaker 2: had on, I would like, I'd want to slap him 141 00:08:21,840 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 2: with his degree me to or his PhD or whatever 142 00:08:25,880 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 2: the hell he had to get his doctorate or whatever, 143 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:34,679 Speaker 2: because even with my qualifications, a life event is not 144 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:39,640 Speaker 2: going to solve your problems, no at all, like not remotely. 145 00:08:39,679 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: And also, BPD is something that you can't really get 146 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:46,280 Speaker 1: diagnosed with until is it, like after sixteen or eighteen. 147 00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:47,520 Speaker 1: That's when they prefer. 148 00:08:47,240 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 3: To give the diagnosis. 149 00:08:48,480 --> 00:08:51,320 Speaker 1: Very much, So, yeah, very much, because it's like, obviously 150 00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:53,560 Speaker 1: it's not that's not the same as a lot of 151 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,920 Speaker 1: other meant wellnesses. This one is often kind of deep 152 00:08:57,040 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: rooted in some kind of childhood trauma that has retrained 153 00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,360 Speaker 1: the brain, and so sometimes you don't see the effets 154 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:06,280 Speaker 1: of that. And also a lot of the times that 155 00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:09,080 Speaker 1: can be misdiagnosed as different things. I know, for you, 156 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: obviously they were looking at possibly bipolar. I know. For me, 157 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 1: I had the diagnosis of BPD when I was nineteen, 158 00:09:17,320 --> 00:09:20,520 Speaker 1: I think, and I remember I never got told. I 159 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,120 Speaker 1: just saw it on like a discharge thing. And then 160 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:28,600 Speaker 1: like many years later, I saw another psychiatrist and psychologists 161 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:31,360 Speaker 1: and they were like, no, you've got PTSD and ADHD 162 00:09:31,440 --> 00:09:35,000 Speaker 1: and those combined have similar symptoms. Because I never never 163 00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 1: had a lot of the symptoms of BPD, but they 164 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: slapped it on and then it affected every other time 165 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: that I went in to seek medical care. 166 00:09:42,800 --> 00:09:45,400 Speaker 2: This is the issue with clinical notes as well. Yeah, 167 00:09:45,480 --> 00:09:48,360 Speaker 2: they don't tell you on your clinical notes, and you 168 00:09:48,400 --> 00:09:52,440 Speaker 2: can request your clinical notes as well, and this is 169 00:09:52,480 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 2: how you have to be, like, you have to be 170 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 2: careful with clinical notes because people can request those, yeah, 171 00:09:58,960 --> 00:10:00,840 Speaker 2: and that's. 172 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:04,520 Speaker 3: That's they can misdiagnose people. 173 00:10:04,640 --> 00:10:08,040 Speaker 1: That's so bad, which then impacts But it should never 174 00:10:08,080 --> 00:10:10,760 Speaker 1: impact anyway the way that someone is being viewed and 175 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:12,320 Speaker 1: treated in the healthcare system. 176 00:10:12,520 --> 00:10:13,240 Speaker 3: Absolutely not. 177 00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:17,480 Speaker 1: But it does. Oh because of the stigmas. I would 178 00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: love to know, you know, kind of speaking on this, 179 00:10:19,679 --> 00:10:24,520 Speaker 1: and especially to the people who know someone with BPD, 180 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,640 Speaker 1: who are working with someone with BPD, all of those things. 181 00:10:27,679 --> 00:10:31,040 Speaker 1: As someone who lives with it, what do you want 182 00:10:31,080 --> 00:10:33,480 Speaker 1: these other people to know, Like, explain what it is 183 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: to live with BPD. Explain what it is to experience that. 184 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: But also I know that it's not doesn't define you, 185 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: and you still have so many other things about you. 186 00:10:43,400 --> 00:10:46,359 Speaker 1: Like sorry, that's a big, wide winded question. 187 00:10:46,200 --> 00:10:51,000 Speaker 2: But I mean living with BPD is I mean, it's 188 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:53,800 Speaker 2: it's one hundred percent not linear, and I have. 189 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 3: Really really good. 190 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:04,439 Speaker 2: Pockets of time and moments and days and months, and 191 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 2: and then you know, then it can fall onto the 192 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:10,240 Speaker 2: back foot where I don't have. 193 00:11:11,720 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 3: Good times. 194 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: And I think. 195 00:11:16,760 --> 00:11:20,840 Speaker 2: Having that stigma where people, you know, when people have 196 00:11:20,920 --> 00:11:24,880 Speaker 2: that misunderstanding of BPD, that they instantly think, oh, this 197 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,920 Speaker 2: person has BPD, you know they're really unstable. 198 00:11:30,240 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 3: And that's just not true. 199 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:34,520 Speaker 1: It's also the manipulative thing that I seely get strong 200 00:11:34,559 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: around to a lot as well, is that they're just manipulative, 201 00:11:36,760 --> 00:11:39,240 Speaker 1: and it's like, no, they're just terrified of losing you 202 00:11:39,720 --> 00:11:41,800 Speaker 1: and they're terrified of abandonment, and so they're going to 203 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:43,360 Speaker 1: do everything they can to hold on to. 204 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:49,079 Speaker 2: That like it's yeah, sorry, oh no, absolutely absolutely, and 205 00:11:49,640 --> 00:11:53,760 Speaker 2: you know it's it's I think having that that that attachment, 206 00:11:54,440 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 2: you know, can be really really difficult, which is I 207 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,719 Speaker 2: think why I mean personally, I keep my circle very 208 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 2: small because of that. I disappointment is very difficult for 209 00:12:10,040 --> 00:12:14,160 Speaker 2: me to deal with. So like if we make plans, 210 00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 2: If we do make plans, I have to know what's happening. 211 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: And if those plans change, I need enough time in 212 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 2: advance to know when they're going to change, how they're 213 00:12:28,559 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 2: going to change, and if they're changing, why are they changing. 214 00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,520 Speaker 2: So there's like there's these things in advance that have 215 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:41,679 Speaker 2: to happen, and for some people that's too much for 216 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 2: them to handle because it is a lot, it's a 217 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 2: lot to take on. Because if those types of things 218 00:12:47,960 --> 00:12:53,120 Speaker 2: don't happen and they fall apart, sometimes I can't cope 219 00:12:53,160 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 2: with that and that's a bit too much and for 220 00:12:57,480 --> 00:12:59,119 Speaker 2: some people, and that's totally understandable. 221 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 3: If that's too much for Pete, that's fine. But that's 222 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 3: why my. 223 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:05,880 Speaker 2: Circle is small, because the people that are in that 224 00:13:05,960 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 2: circle can handle that. 225 00:13:08,160 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, I was talking to a phenomenal woman, doctor Courtney 226 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 1: Tracy from the US who's a psychologist who also lives 227 00:13:15,200 --> 00:13:18,360 Speaker 1: with BPD, and I was asking her a similar question 228 00:13:18,440 --> 00:13:21,800 Speaker 1: around like what would you say to friends and family 229 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,679 Speaker 1: of those who have BPD? And I remember she just 230 00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: kind of sat there and paused and was just like, 231 00:13:27,559 --> 00:13:30,640 Speaker 1: I'm so sorry, Like you have to understand, we don't 232 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:32,600 Speaker 1: want this as much as you don't want this, Like 233 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: this is not something that we choose, This is not 234 00:13:34,760 --> 00:13:37,560 Speaker 1: something that we want. We know how destructive it can be, 235 00:13:37,679 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: we know how hard it can be, but give us grace. 236 00:13:42,120 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: And I think that's so important for people to understand that, 237 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: Like a lot of people living with BPD, like you know, 238 00:13:49,559 --> 00:13:52,760 Speaker 1: and you're aware of the behavior and the actions, maybe 239 00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:54,440 Speaker 1: not at the time and it's happening, but you know 240 00:13:54,559 --> 00:13:56,840 Speaker 1: that it's a thing that you have, but it's not 241 00:13:56,880 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 1: something you can control. Yeah, And I mean, what for 242 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:05,080 Speaker 1: you would you say to people who do have BPD 243 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,920 Speaker 1: in regards to like probably on with your counselor hair on, 244 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,440 Speaker 1: Like what are things that they people can do to 245 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:17,480 Speaker 1: be able to kind of help manage deal with understand 246 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: the ebbs and flows of it. 247 00:14:20,760 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 2: I think for people with BPD, I think everyone manages 248 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:29,360 Speaker 2: their BPD differently. I learned recently about myself that I 249 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 2: internalize a lot of what I have going on, and 250 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,280 Speaker 2: that a lot of what I have going on people 251 00:14:38,320 --> 00:14:39,680 Speaker 2: don't realize. 252 00:14:40,040 --> 00:14:41,320 Speaker 3: Unless I vocalize it. 253 00:14:42,240 --> 00:14:47,520 Speaker 2: So if you are wanting people to understand you more, 254 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,200 Speaker 2: you need to be able to communicate that to them. 255 00:14:52,080 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 2: If they're important to you and you want them to 256 00:14:55,920 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 2: be able to help you and understand you, they need 257 00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,680 Speaker 2: to be able to understand what's going on in here, 258 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,880 Speaker 2: but they can't do that unless you talk to them. 259 00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 2: Everyone with BPD has different things that tick them over. 260 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:25,120 Speaker 2: For me, particularly anger is my tipping point, but I 261 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:30,200 Speaker 2: internalize it and so a lot of it is being 262 00:15:30,240 --> 00:15:35,000 Speaker 2: able to communicate that so that people can understand why 263 00:15:35,080 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 2: it is the way that is. And I think if 264 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:43,200 Speaker 2: you have loved ones that are wanting to support you 265 00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:47,840 Speaker 2: with your BPD, it is helpful to be able to 266 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:51,200 Speaker 2: be able to communicate with them. I think if you're 267 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:57,480 Speaker 2: struggling and there's not the support that's around you, that 268 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 2: can make it a bit more difficult, and that is 269 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,120 Speaker 2: that is a lot harder and I do, I definitely 270 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 2: do empathize with that. When I lived in England, I 271 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 2: didn't have my family around me, and I was still 272 00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,600 Speaker 2: trying to navigate my BPD once I had the diagnosis 273 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:18,720 Speaker 2: and trying to figure that out. And I'd had friends 274 00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:24,800 Speaker 2: who were really good, but bless them, they were they 275 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:27,520 Speaker 2: were taking the brunt of it, the poor things, and 276 00:16:27,560 --> 00:16:32,440 Speaker 2: I will forever feel guilty for them having to take 277 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 2: the brunt of that. And so I think a lot 278 00:16:36,960 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 2: of your own self care and learning what self care 279 00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:48,320 Speaker 2: is for you that works for me at that time, 280 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:58,080 Speaker 2: Borrowing into myself which was sleep, which was a healing 281 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:03,120 Speaker 2: process for me at that time, Creating a safe environment 282 00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:06,639 Speaker 2: within myself, which was I think my room at the 283 00:17:06,680 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 2: time that was keeping me safe because it was out 284 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 2: like it kept what felt unsafe outside, and that meant 285 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:18,480 Speaker 2: that my. 286 00:17:18,560 --> 00:17:21,040 Speaker 3: Triggers were outside of that space. 287 00:17:22,320 --> 00:17:25,000 Speaker 1: That's really good. Been able to have those those kinds 288 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: of things, I think is so important. And also the 289 00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,600 Speaker 1: reason that I was so stoked that we had you 290 00:17:30,640 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 1: on this first campaign and to have you here now 291 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,480 Speaker 1: is that I know so many young people who get 292 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: the diagnosis of BPD and then think that their life 293 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:40,159 Speaker 1: is over and think that they're not going to be 294 00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,240 Speaker 1: able to do anything, and they see the way that 295 00:17:42,240 --> 00:17:44,439 Speaker 1: they're treated, and they see the way that they're responded to, 296 00:17:44,600 --> 00:17:47,280 Speaker 1: and they think that they can't have any careers or 297 00:17:47,280 --> 00:17:49,840 Speaker 1: they can't do these things. But you're sitting here, you're 298 00:17:49,840 --> 00:17:52,560 Speaker 1: a counselor you live with BPD, like you've been a teacher, 299 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:55,800 Speaker 1: You've done all these things. And I think that's so 300 00:17:55,920 --> 00:18:00,960 Speaker 1: inspirational for people that do have this diegnosis and living 301 00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,879 Speaker 1: with this. And like we kind of said earlier, BPD 302 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:09,680 Speaker 1: something that develops in the brain from some kind of trauma. 303 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,439 Speaker 1: And I know that with yours, you went through a 304 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:16,679 Speaker 1: crazy amount of bullying when you were younger. Can you 305 00:18:16,680 --> 00:18:17,199 Speaker 1: talk about that? 306 00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 2: Yeah, So mine was sort of from when I was 307 00:18:21,080 --> 00:18:27,480 Speaker 2: seven and up until I was about seventeen, So it 308 00:18:27,520 --> 00:18:32,160 Speaker 2: was sort of long winded bullying off and on, which. 309 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 3: Is probably why. 310 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:37,399 Speaker 2: Where it sort of stemmed from, which is probably why 311 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 2: when I got my diagnosis at thirty, it was eventually 312 00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:48,159 Speaker 2: became peace because I could go, oh my god, at seven, 313 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 2: this is where it started for me. When I was seven, 314 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,400 Speaker 2: my family and I, which was my mum and dad 315 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:57,320 Speaker 2: and my older sister, we moved to Russia for four years. 316 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,439 Speaker 1: That's so wild, I know, just in general, that's such 317 00:19:01,480 --> 00:19:04,520 Speaker 1: a wild statement. We just moved to Russia. 318 00:19:05,440 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 2: I know, my dad got a job over there. We 319 00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:10,359 Speaker 2: were supposed to go for three years. We ended up 320 00:19:10,359 --> 00:19:13,040 Speaker 2: going for four years, and. 321 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:13,600 Speaker 1: I hated it. 322 00:19:13,760 --> 00:19:14,440 Speaker 3: I hated it. 323 00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 2: The rest of my family loved it, but it was 324 00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:23,960 Speaker 2: not the best for me, purely because I did not 325 00:19:24,119 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 2: have the best time socially. We went to Me and 326 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 2: my sister went to an international American school while we 327 00:19:33,560 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 2: were there, and I was sort of just like the 328 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:46,040 Speaker 2: social outcast. I had no friends. I was very much 329 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 2: the I think there was in the total number of 330 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 2: I can't remember how many students they were there, but 331 00:19:51,640 --> 00:19:54,159 Speaker 2: of the hundred there was over there was hundreds of 332 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:57,400 Speaker 2: kids there, and most of them were American. But of them, 333 00:19:57,480 --> 00:19:59,639 Speaker 2: I think there was like I remember there being like 334 00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 2: a groan of how many students like nationalities, and there 335 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:06,800 Speaker 2: was like six New Zealanders, so there was like obviously 336 00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:09,199 Speaker 2: not very many, two of them obviously being me and 337 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 2: my sister. And I just remember me, I had zero friends, 338 00:20:16,119 --> 00:20:22,800 Speaker 2: and I just remember being very alienated, for I was 339 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 2: very eccentric, very quirky, and very much that was very 340 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 2: much like picked on for that just very much that's 341 00:20:32,240 --> 00:20:34,400 Speaker 2: that's sort of just what sticks out in my head. 342 00:20:37,480 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 2: And I just remember one particular girl very much, highlighting 343 00:20:42,520 --> 00:20:45,879 Speaker 2: it every sort of twist and turn, how much how 344 00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 2: much I was not like, how different I was, and 345 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,080 Speaker 2: how much I was not like the rest and do 346 00:20:54,119 --> 00:20:57,760 Speaker 2: you know, just those kind of things, And that was 347 00:20:57,960 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 2: that was at that point. And then and obviously we 348 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 2: came home when I was eleven. 349 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:06,840 Speaker 3: And then it was. 350 00:21:09,400 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 2: And then I remember being an intermediate and. 351 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:13,960 Speaker 1: I remember. 352 00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:19,840 Speaker 2: There being like a vote about whether I could be 353 00:21:20,080 --> 00:21:24,200 Speaker 2: whether I would be a good enough friend in a group, 354 00:21:24,359 --> 00:21:26,239 Speaker 2: like being like whether I would be allowed to be 355 00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:30,920 Speaker 2: friends with like anyone the vote yeah, oh my god, yeah, 356 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 2: and so like so there's like these kind of things, 357 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:40,199 Speaker 2: so and so what one of the idiosyncrasies. One of 358 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:44,159 Speaker 2: the things that is that attaches itself to me is 359 00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:49,080 Speaker 2: I remember the negative things in my life more than 360 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 2: I remember the positive things. That's what sticks with me 361 00:21:52,960 --> 00:21:58,200 Speaker 2: I am. I think it's just part of who I am. 362 00:21:58,280 --> 00:22:00,679 Speaker 1: That makes sense though, Like that something I know that 363 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,719 Speaker 1: even when, for example, like scrolling through social media and 364 00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:05,840 Speaker 1: I would see hundreds of good comments and you see 365 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:07,640 Speaker 1: one bad comment and you're like and then you think 366 00:22:07,640 --> 00:22:09,600 Speaker 1: about that for the next ten years. Yes, Like it's 367 00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:12,760 Speaker 1: you know, I think the human brain for some reason 368 00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:15,360 Speaker 1: just dwells so much on the negative stuff. But when 369 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:18,160 Speaker 1: it is so much that it almost blocks out all 370 00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,520 Speaker 1: of the positive stuff, that's when you have you know, 371 00:22:20,640 --> 00:22:21,960 Speaker 1: these big issues there. 372 00:22:22,119 --> 00:22:25,719 Speaker 2: Yeah, and that's all you can focus on. Yeah, And 373 00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:28,080 Speaker 2: so the you go through life and like that's all 374 00:22:28,119 --> 00:22:31,000 Speaker 2: you can remember. And then so you go from intermediate 375 00:22:31,040 --> 00:22:36,840 Speaker 2: and to high school and that sort of sticks out. 376 00:22:36,880 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 2: And that's sort of when my weight changed, and then 377 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:46,480 Speaker 2: my weight went up, and then that's you know, high 378 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 2: school sucks. Yeah already, Yeah, you know, we all know. 379 00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 2: High school's you know, the worst place on earth. Correct, 380 00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:55,560 Speaker 2: you want to send anyone to the worst place on earth? 381 00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:56,560 Speaker 2: Send them to high school? 382 00:22:56,640 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: Four teenagers? 383 00:22:57,520 --> 00:22:58,119 Speaker 3: Oh, I know. 384 00:22:59,080 --> 00:23:03,960 Speaker 2: But then it just sort of deteriorated a lot from there. 385 00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,359 Speaker 2: And from there then were there were my mental health. 386 00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:16,320 Speaker 2: And I remember the mind games, you know, and but 387 00:23:16,640 --> 00:23:21,439 Speaker 2: and I remember the you know, the fat jokes. The 388 00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 2: I remember walking past someone and they would like as 389 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 2: I was walking past them, they would make the sound 390 00:23:33,280 --> 00:23:37,439 Speaker 2: like a giant like the boom boom boom sound like 391 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:41,880 Speaker 2: you were walking past someone and I actually subconsciously actually 392 00:23:41,920 --> 00:23:46,359 Speaker 2: tried to walk lighter because I thought that that would 393 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 2: make them stop like that kind of stuff. And you 394 00:23:57,000 --> 00:24:01,359 Speaker 2: can just imagine those kind of things and then somehow 395 00:24:01,560 --> 00:24:05,360 Speaker 2: like people having issues with you and you've never met 396 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,880 Speaker 2: them before and. 397 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:10,560 Speaker 3: They just came out. 398 00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 2: From you from left and right because you knew you 399 00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:18,760 Speaker 2: were just easy pray. 400 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: And I mean, I get to speak in schools all 401 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:23,679 Speaker 1: around the world now, and every time that I go 402 00:24:23,720 --> 00:24:26,720 Speaker 1: into any school, we often talk about the fact that, 403 00:24:26,840 --> 00:24:28,719 Speaker 1: you know, bullies often have a bigger bully in their 404 00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:31,320 Speaker 1: lives that they believe that it's okay or they believe 405 00:24:31,359 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 1: that it's normalized. And you see these kids and man, 406 00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:38,040 Speaker 1: they can just say some real hurtful things without any 407 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,399 Speaker 1: cognitive understanding of the risk, like the how that's going 408 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:45,560 Speaker 1: to be perceived and how it's going to impact the 409 00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:47,800 Speaker 1: person that they're saying it too. And I think now 410 00:24:47,920 --> 00:24:50,040 Speaker 1: even more so with social media and they can hide 411 00:24:50,080 --> 00:24:52,800 Speaker 1: behind a screen, and the bully and goes from school 412 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:56,400 Speaker 1: to then also being at home, and it's the impact 413 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 1: and the toll that that has on someone and also 414 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:03,040 Speaker 1: on the beliefs that you have about yourself, right, because 415 00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,359 Speaker 1: when you're so young, and your world is being shaped, 416 00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:09,840 Speaker 1: and your identity is being shaped and your beliefs, and 417 00:25:10,400 --> 00:25:13,600 Speaker 1: suddenly everyone around you that you're spending more time with 418 00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 1: at school than you are at home are telling you 419 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,840 Speaker 1: all these horrific things. Of course, your identity and who 420 00:25:19,920 --> 00:25:21,960 Speaker 1: you believe you are is going to shift. Oh yeah, 421 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:26,560 Speaker 1: which is do you ever look back at that and 422 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,520 Speaker 1: look at especially this diagnosis that you have, knowing that 423 00:25:29,560 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 1: it's been trauma based, do you ever get resentful or 424 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:38,000 Speaker 1: angry at the fact that this has come from these 425 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:40,600 Speaker 1: years that you are being bullied, or think about the 426 00:25:40,600 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: fact that, like, if you hadn't been bullied, would there 427 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: still be something that you struggled with? 428 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 3: You know? Do you know what I would? 429 00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:55,320 Speaker 2: But I think, to be honest, jazz that would take energy, Yeah, 430 00:25:55,359 --> 00:26:00,640 Speaker 2: and just don't think that they deserve that energy. And 431 00:26:01,119 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 2: but I've you know, I've lived with this for a 432 00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:09,879 Speaker 2: number of years now, and I think I've gotten to 433 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:14,440 Speaker 2: the point now where it's been and because it's also 434 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,560 Speaker 2: gone on for like we're talking like it from seven 435 00:26:17,600 --> 00:26:23,920 Speaker 2: to seventeen, so we're talking ten years. Yeah, And you 436 00:26:24,119 --> 00:26:26,000 Speaker 2: could also look at it from the other perspective of 437 00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,800 Speaker 2: if I saw them on the street, I would probably. 438 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:30,960 Speaker 3: Turn and run the other way. 439 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:35,840 Speaker 2: So it's like a double edged sword. Yeah, so wouldn't 440 00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 2: want to give them the time of day. And also 441 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 2: other triple edged sword would never ever go to my 442 00:26:42,160 --> 00:26:43,080 Speaker 2: high school reunion. 443 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 1: Oh neither. 444 00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 2: You couldn't pay me fifty million trillion absolutely dollars. 445 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,160 Speaker 3: No, yeah, not a chance. 446 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:56,159 Speaker 1: Yeah I feel your I feel And it's what I 447 00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,919 Speaker 1: think is so interesting is I feel the same about 448 00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:00,760 Speaker 1: like if I saw them in the street that I 449 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:02,880 Speaker 1: still run the other way. And it's so interesting because 450 00:27:02,920 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm literally twenty nine and still I like 451 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:10,000 Speaker 1: I sometimes see them comming on things on social media 452 00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,880 Speaker 1: and I'm like, this is so wild that like fifteen 453 00:27:12,960 --> 00:27:17,080 Speaker 1: years later, you're still coming after me. But I feel 454 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,600 Speaker 1: like the same kid that I was back then, which 455 00:27:20,680 --> 00:27:23,439 Speaker 1: is I think people need to understand it, especially all 456 00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:25,640 Speaker 1: the young people that are listening to this. The impact 457 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,120 Speaker 1: of your words now can stick with someone for life, 458 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 1: like it's oh, and people just don't understand that, Like 459 00:27:32,920 --> 00:27:36,160 Speaker 1: they don't understand the impact of words. And I mean 460 00:27:37,080 --> 00:27:40,080 Speaker 1: what I guess in both of our cases, at least 461 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,280 Speaker 1: it has been able to be turned into something that 462 00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:46,320 Speaker 1: can help other people. And that's why I also really 463 00:27:46,400 --> 00:27:48,800 Speaker 1: love the fact that you've become a counselor because I 464 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:51,520 Speaker 1: think that you know, having been in the mental health 465 00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:55,880 Speaker 1: field and being in as a mental health patient myself, 466 00:27:56,359 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 1: knowing that the best people working in those areas of 467 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,400 Speaker 1: people that have been through it, because you can tell 468 00:28:03,800 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: when someone understands or if someone is just purely clinical. 469 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: And obviously purely clinical is needed at times, but for 470 00:28:10,720 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 1: someone who has got in the middle of it, to 471 00:28:12,720 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: have someone who resonates and understands, it's just so different. 472 00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:21,479 Speaker 1: What was it that made you quit teaching and go 473 00:28:21,520 --> 00:28:23,320 Speaker 1: into counseling, because that's a big shift. 474 00:28:24,880 --> 00:28:27,680 Speaker 2: You'll actually find a lot of the counselors that I'm 475 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:33,400 Speaker 2: training with at the moment used to be teachers. Wow wow, 476 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:36,320 Speaker 2: and a lot of them are actually becoming counselors in 477 00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:41,040 Speaker 2: schools cool, which is really great. Also shows the need, right, 478 00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,800 Speaker 2: Oh definitely, yeah, I don't want to do that. I 479 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:48,320 Speaker 2: definitely want to come completely out of schools. But that's 480 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:51,800 Speaker 2: because I think for me, my era of being a 481 00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 2: teacher is done. When I became a teacher, I came 482 00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,280 Speaker 2: out of finishing high school. 483 00:29:00,440 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: I didn't finish high school. 484 00:29:01,760 --> 00:29:06,680 Speaker 2: I finished end of sixth form, very very depressed, seventeen 485 00:29:06,720 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 2: year old, very you know, didn't want to be here anymore, 486 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 2: and who shocked her parents very much because they had 487 00:29:18,560 --> 00:29:20,240 Speaker 2: no idea obviously what was going on, because I didn't 488 00:29:20,240 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 2: tell them that I was being bullied and that I 489 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:25,080 Speaker 2: didn't want to you know, I was also you know, 490 00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:26,080 Speaker 2: I was self harming. 491 00:29:26,800 --> 00:29:27,880 Speaker 3: They didn't know anything. 492 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,560 Speaker 2: My school counselor actually forced me to tell my parents 493 00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:33,560 Speaker 2: because she had said, if you don't tell them, I will. 494 00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: How old were you first started self harming sixteen? Was 495 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:42,480 Speaker 1: it something that you had seen somewhere or was it 496 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:45,720 Speaker 1: just something that obviously with the emotions that had come up, 497 00:29:45,800 --> 00:29:48,480 Speaker 1: Like what was it? 498 00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,800 Speaker 2: It was that was just the emotions that had come 499 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:54,479 Speaker 2: up and they just got so overwhelming. It was it 500 00:29:54,560 --> 00:29:58,680 Speaker 2: was sitting in my stomach and it just got to 501 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,160 Speaker 2: the point where I. 502 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:04,560 Speaker 1: Had just needed to let they needed to come out. 503 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: The reason that I asked that is because I think 504 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:12,239 Speaker 1: that self harm is something that, alongside BPD, is just 505 00:30:12,360 --> 00:30:14,480 Speaker 1: one of the most stigmatized in the way of like 506 00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:18,600 Speaker 1: it's just attention seeking and no one, no one is 507 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,800 Speaker 1: doing that for like you've got it. You've got to 508 00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:26,160 Speaker 1: be even if it is that you need someone to pay, 509 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,080 Speaker 1: but you need someone to pay attention. There's not a 510 00:30:28,120 --> 00:30:31,520 Speaker 1: bad thing. Like if a baby is crying on the ground, 511 00:30:31,520 --> 00:30:33,120 Speaker 1: you're not just going to ignore it, right, And I 512 00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:36,200 Speaker 1: think if someone is hurting enough that they feel like 513 00:30:36,280 --> 00:30:38,560 Speaker 1: that's something that they need to do for people to 514 00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: understand the hurt, which majority of the time isn't even 515 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,720 Speaker 1: the case, like it's just trying to deal with that pain. 516 00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:49,120 Speaker 1: It's just so misunderstood one hundred percent. Yeah, sorry, I 517 00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:51,040 Speaker 1: keep going off, but. 518 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,720 Speaker 2: That no, I totally agree with you. I totally agree 519 00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 2: with you. There's the huge stigma stigmatized test stigmatization against 520 00:30:58,880 --> 00:31:05,360 Speaker 2: mental health, but against self harm, and I think there's 521 00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:09,640 Speaker 2: a lot of misunderstanding against it. And I think you 522 00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 2: can attribute that a lot to the older generation as well. 523 00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:13,720 Speaker 1: Yeah. 524 00:31:13,880 --> 00:31:19,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, my parents were just like, what the hell do 525 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 2: we do with this? They had no idea. And I 526 00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:27,240 Speaker 2: have good conversations with my parents about it, more so 527 00:31:27,760 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 2: as we move on, but they had no idea what 528 00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:33,240 Speaker 2: to do. 529 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,200 Speaker 1: Well, they were I guess what's interesting is I feel 530 00:31:36,240 --> 00:31:39,080 Speaker 1: like they were just masking it in different ways, right, 531 00:31:39,120 --> 00:31:41,880 Speaker 1: because the pain was still there for them. Obviously different 532 00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,640 Speaker 1: different kinds of pain, but pain is something that universally 533 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: we feel when people just respond to it in different ways. 534 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:50,479 Speaker 1: And I think it's really interesting because, like, for example, 535 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,480 Speaker 1: our suicide stats here as majority middle aged men, people 536 00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,800 Speaker 1: who have never been able to deal with or understand 537 00:31:58,840 --> 00:32:01,680 Speaker 1: emotions or how you know. And so I think it's 538 00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:04,520 Speaker 1: interesting when you then look at a teenage girl who 539 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:07,200 Speaker 1: is self harming because of the pain and just trying 540 00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:10,160 Speaker 1: to let it out and go, that's attention seeking. It's 541 00:32:10,200 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: like they're just trying to deal with the stuff so 542 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,400 Speaker 1: that they don't end up you know. Yes, it's yeah, yeah, 543 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:20,640 Speaker 1: I've gone off topic completely, but it's just something I've 544 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 1: seen a lot of on social media especially, and obviously 545 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:26,640 Speaker 1: there is a lot of conversations and concern around it 546 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: becoming a trend among young people. But still someone's got 547 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:32,320 Speaker 1: to be hurting to do that. 548 00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:33,240 Speaker 3: Yeah. 549 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:35,400 Speaker 2: Yeah, but then you have half the problem with social 550 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:37,240 Speaker 2: media being half the problem. 551 00:32:37,360 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 1: Yeah, because social media, you know, it reaches such a 552 00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,720 Speaker 1: huge and it's huge. Aren't you so glad that you 553 00:32:45,720 --> 00:32:47,680 Speaker 1: didn't have social media when you were going through this? 554 00:32:49,640 --> 00:32:50,320 Speaker 3: Social media? 555 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:52,160 Speaker 2: This is going to make me sound like a like 556 00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,000 Speaker 2: a really really old Pelican. But social media was like 557 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:02,840 Speaker 2: just sort of picking up when I was in high 558 00:33:02,880 --> 00:33:07,400 Speaker 2: school Bebo, yes, yes, miss in missing. 559 00:33:08,520 --> 00:33:12,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, like I look now and there are kids that 560 00:33:12,520 --> 00:33:15,240 Speaker 1: are posting in psych wards and that you know, I'm 561 00:33:15,280 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: like me and my co founder Gin you know, we've 562 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:19,880 Speaker 1: often talked about the fact that we're so glad that 563 00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 1: we didn't have this instant social media connection back then 564 00:33:23,680 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: because like, oh my gosh, that stuff is documented forever, 565 00:33:26,760 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: like you can't get rid of it, and it's like 566 00:33:29,720 --> 00:33:34,160 Speaker 1: it's wild. But anyway, you were a teacher and you 567 00:33:34,280 --> 00:33:39,240 Speaker 1: became a counselor. I have so many tangents. Also, my 568 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,960 Speaker 1: little ADHD brain is like this and yeah, like. 569 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, no, but I get what you mean because like, yeah, 570 00:33:45,080 --> 00:33:48,320 Speaker 2: on the TikTok, I WoT other TikTok on the TikTok 571 00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,760 Speaker 2: showing my age because I watch and there is this 572 00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:52,960 Speaker 2: watch ye. 573 00:33:55,280 --> 00:34:01,600 Speaker 3: No anyway, yes, so and so when I left high. 574 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:03,880 Speaker 2: School, I think I worked for my parents for about 575 00:34:03,920 --> 00:34:10,240 Speaker 2: a year and then I just I actually just decided 576 00:34:10,280 --> 00:34:12,399 Speaker 2: to become an early childhood teacher. 577 00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:16,400 Speaker 1: Randomly. I love that for you. 578 00:34:16,480 --> 00:34:19,839 Speaker 2: I just randomly decided to become very but again, impulsively 579 00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:23,960 Speaker 2: and impulsivity, it's just another one. And I am really 580 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:25,839 Speaker 2: really impulsively too. 581 00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, that's why they thought I had BPD 582 00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: for so long, because my impulsivity was through the roof, 583 00:34:32,719 --> 00:34:35,560 Speaker 1: like through the roof, and now it's turned into like 584 00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,880 Speaker 1: impulsivity buying and by impulsive buying is terrible, but that's 585 00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:41,600 Speaker 1: that's again, that's the same thing. 586 00:34:42,160 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, like. 587 00:34:45,160 --> 00:34:49,279 Speaker 2: Moneyw like with debt and stuff like that, that's just 588 00:34:49,320 --> 00:34:53,080 Speaker 2: another thing because you just like I like if you 589 00:34:53,200 --> 00:35:00,399 Speaker 2: like with mood changing, like mood switching can be very 590 00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:03,480 Speaker 2: big thing as well, So your moods will switch and 591 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:08,000 Speaker 2: like being on a high, Like it's very rare for 592 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:12,360 Speaker 2: me to be very high, Like I can be happy, 593 00:35:12,840 --> 00:35:14,920 Speaker 2: but it's very rare for me to be hyper. 594 00:35:15,520 --> 00:35:17,040 Speaker 3: I'll be hyper very rarely. 595 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,200 Speaker 1: But if I'm hyper, it's not a good thing. It's 596 00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:22,839 Speaker 1: not a good thing. 597 00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:28,239 Speaker 2: But anyway, yeah, so I did EC and I did 598 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,560 Speaker 2: this is probably a good example of impulsivity. 599 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:33,920 Speaker 3: So I did. 600 00:35:36,640 --> 00:35:42,680 Speaker 2: Distance learning for my diploma in early childhood and so 601 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:47,040 Speaker 2: I did that and then upgraded it to for a 602 00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 2: year to my degree in early childhood and in between 603 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:55,759 Speaker 2: that became did my full registration, which takes a couple 604 00:35:55,760 --> 00:36:00,719 Speaker 2: of years to be fully registered as a teacher, and 605 00:36:00,760 --> 00:36:07,719 Speaker 2: then did my postgraduate diploma in early childhood education, went 606 00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:14,760 Speaker 2: over seas and taught in England and became an assistant 607 00:36:14,760 --> 00:36:16,640 Speaker 2: principal in a primary school. 608 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:17,279 Speaker 1: Oh my god. 609 00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:24,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, and I loved that experience but burnt myself out 610 00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:30,520 Speaker 2: doing it. Wouldn't change it for the world because it 611 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:35,400 Speaker 2: was a really great experience, met some amazing people, but 612 00:36:36,160 --> 00:36:39,440 Speaker 2: my mental health took a toll. Got diagnosed with BPD. 613 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,560 Speaker 2: But I didn't get diagnosed with BPD because I went 614 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:46,200 Speaker 2: to England. I got diagnosed with BPD because. 615 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: You went to Russia. 616 00:36:46,719 --> 00:36:47,560 Speaker 3: I went to Russia. 617 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:57,640 Speaker 2: H So, like you know, I went to Russia and 618 00:36:57,719 --> 00:37:01,560 Speaker 2: you know, you know all of this kind of stuff. So, like, 619 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:03,480 Speaker 2: you know, all of that happened. 620 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:03,879 Speaker 3: And so. 621 00:37:06,280 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 2: I decided that I came home from England and I 622 00:37:11,840 --> 00:37:15,720 Speaker 2: was a shell of a human. I also came home 623 00:37:15,920 --> 00:37:20,440 Speaker 2: in the height of COVID, so shell of a human 624 00:37:21,200 --> 00:37:23,800 Speaker 2: with BPD. So this is an interesting experience for someone 625 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:28,880 Speaker 2: who's you know, had a mental breakdown with BPD in 626 00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:29,920 Speaker 2: the middle of COVID. 627 00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:34,440 Speaker 1: Oh, you would have to gone to isolation. Yeah, I 628 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:35,239 Speaker 1: had to do that too. 629 00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,320 Speaker 3: Oh it was very interesting. 630 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:39,360 Speaker 1: Yeah. 631 00:37:39,480 --> 00:37:44,560 Speaker 2: So this was before you had to book, right, so 632 00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,319 Speaker 2: they just put you in a hotel. So I was 633 00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,960 Speaker 2: very lucky because this was also the point where I 634 00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,120 Speaker 2: also like, I couldn't be I didn't like. I'm also 635 00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:57,760 Speaker 2: quite sounds very strange. Most people think it's very strange 636 00:37:57,800 --> 00:38:01,120 Speaker 2: because when I meet people people, because I'm quite an 637 00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:03,920 Speaker 2: introverted person, but people are like, I don't get that 638 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 2: vibe from you. I get quite an extroverted vibe, and 639 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 2: I'm just like, I don't really like a lot of people. 640 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,400 Speaker 1: I'm I quite like my own little bubble. 641 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,400 Speaker 2: But I'm like, I'm quite a socially anxious kind of person, 642 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,600 Speaker 2: and so I don't like. At the time, being touched 643 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:23,160 Speaker 2: by anybody was quite a bit of an issue. I'm 644 00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,839 Speaker 2: pretty good about it now, Yeah, I'm good. 645 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,319 Speaker 1: I'm quite good about it now. 646 00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 2: Hugging is fine now, but like back then, to touch anybody, 647 00:38:36,000 --> 00:38:39,719 Speaker 2: I would be like this, wow, now absolutely fine, So 648 00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:45,480 Speaker 2: absolutely fine. But so going into managed isolation, I was like, 649 00:38:45,560 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 2: please dear God, don't fly me down to christ Church, 650 00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:51,239 Speaker 2: because that's what they were doing. Yes, like you fly 651 00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:55,279 Speaker 2: into Auckland and I just flew from England that if 652 00:38:55,320 --> 00:38:57,560 Speaker 2: they needed to, they'd fly you down to christ Church. 653 00:38:58,480 --> 00:39:00,399 Speaker 2: We need to talk about this experience for a moment, 654 00:39:00,440 --> 00:39:02,600 Speaker 2: because I feel like I haven't seen anything about like 655 00:39:03,520 --> 00:39:07,080 Speaker 2: when you land in the country when this was happening 656 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:09,919 Speaker 2: and you don't get to get your bags and you're 657 00:39:09,920 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 2: greeted by like the Navy. 658 00:39:12,200 --> 00:39:13,799 Speaker 1: Was this your experience. 659 00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:17,360 Speaker 2: Yet, so they come and get you off the plane. 660 00:39:18,160 --> 00:39:22,279 Speaker 2: So they come and because I had a layover in Singapore. 661 00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:25,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, and so this is how much. 662 00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:31,120 Speaker 2: My parents there's such little delights because they paid for 663 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:33,359 Speaker 2: me to go premium economy just to try and see 664 00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,600 Speaker 2: if it would make my experience just a little bit 665 00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,000 Speaker 2: if the airline would take care of me a little 666 00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:42,239 Speaker 2: bit better, just for my mental health. And there were 667 00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,000 Speaker 2: like four other people within premium economy, so it was 668 00:39:46,080 --> 00:39:48,399 Speaker 2: quite nice because that was but it worked out even 669 00:39:48,440 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 2: better because like there was like no one on the 670 00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:54,120 Speaker 2: flight anyway. Yeah yeah, but they like come and get 671 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:57,640 Speaker 2: you off the flight, put you in an area, leave 672 00:39:57,680 --> 00:40:00,560 Speaker 2: you there and then take your way again. 673 00:40:00,719 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: But with like with the guards and with that, like 674 00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,600 Speaker 1: it was I remember when I landed and just being like, oh, 675 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:07,640 Speaker 1: my gosh, I feel like I've done something wrong, or 676 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:09,600 Speaker 1: I'm like arriving in some crazy thing and then you 677 00:40:09,680 --> 00:40:11,879 Speaker 1: get on a bus and you don't know where you're going, yes, 678 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,839 Speaker 1: and then you just arrive at a hotel. I hope 679 00:40:13,840 --> 00:40:15,719 Speaker 1: I've answered your questions correctly. 680 00:40:15,760 --> 00:40:17,759 Speaker 3: What if I've answered them wrong, where are you going 681 00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:18,200 Speaker 3: to put me? 682 00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:21,359 Speaker 1: I know, like I just oh, my gosh, and like 683 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,000 Speaker 1: I I mean, I managed to turn mine into quite 684 00:40:24,120 --> 00:40:26,160 Speaker 1: I was unboxing all my food, which for some reason 685 00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:29,719 Speaker 1: blew up on TikTok. People were so like millions and 686 00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,239 Speaker 1: millions and millions of views of me unboxing my food 687 00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 1: three times a day, and just like people were so 688 00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:38,439 Speaker 1: invested to the point that America, there was this news 689 00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:41,960 Speaker 1: piece that went out from some I don't even know 690 00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:44,400 Speaker 1: what it was claiming to be like getting the truth 691 00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:45,920 Speaker 1: of the news, and it was saying that all of 692 00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:48,759 Speaker 1: New Zealand was in a concentration camp, which, first of all, 693 00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:52,800 Speaker 1: the audacity of you to ever compare anything to that. Secondly, 694 00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:54,920 Speaker 1: oh my god, I'm sitting at a bed in a 695 00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 1: hotel getting food delivered to me three times a day. 696 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,520 Speaker 1: I can order a coffee, like. 697 00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:01,520 Speaker 3: You know, I'm just chilling. How is it? 698 00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,879 Speaker 1: How do you interesting comparison? But okay, I know, sorry, 699 00:41:05,920 --> 00:41:07,480 Speaker 1: we're still not at the point where you became a colt. 700 00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:09,560 Speaker 3: No, that's fine, that's fine. 701 00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:10,799 Speaker 1: I'm fine with that. 702 00:41:11,239 --> 00:41:14,360 Speaker 2: But like that was fine because like I had the 703 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:18,719 Speaker 2: exact same experience because they bust me to a hotel 704 00:41:19,040 --> 00:41:19,920 Speaker 2: which was fine. 705 00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 3: Four points on sheriton. 706 00:41:22,239 --> 00:41:23,360 Speaker 1: Ah, how's that sedema? 707 00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:25,799 Speaker 3: Ah? Yeah? 708 00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:30,800 Speaker 2: This hotel had had a little walk a little area 709 00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 2: where you could go downstairs once a day to walk around. 710 00:41:33,239 --> 00:41:37,760 Speaker 1: Couldn't I couldn't do that because I couldn't leave my room. Wow. 711 00:41:38,800 --> 00:41:42,520 Speaker 2: So I left my room to do the coup the 712 00:41:42,560 --> 00:41:45,480 Speaker 2: two COVID tests yea horrible which I had to do, 713 00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:50,520 Speaker 2: which surprisingly one nostril was fine, second nostril and I think, yeah, 714 00:41:50,640 --> 00:41:55,319 Speaker 2: that was painful. I don't know why that was, but that, yeah, 715 00:41:55,320 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 2: that was interesting. But I couldn't leave. 716 00:41:57,680 --> 00:41:58,279 Speaker 3: But when I. 717 00:41:58,280 --> 00:42:03,120 Speaker 2: Left, because I was so it was I had mental 718 00:42:03,120 --> 00:42:07,040 Speaker 2: health nurses ringing me every other day to check up 719 00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:09,600 Speaker 2: on me, as well as the nurse that was based 720 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:11,960 Speaker 2: at the hotel ringing me every day to check up 721 00:42:12,000 --> 00:42:15,359 Speaker 2: on me. The mental health nurse was advising me whether 722 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:17,920 Speaker 2: I needed to take any additional medication to check up 723 00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 2: on me, and then I actually had one of the 724 00:42:22,800 --> 00:42:24,280 Speaker 2: Navy women. 725 00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:30,640 Speaker 3: She came up and escorted me. 726 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:36,320 Speaker 2: Down to leave because that day Auckland went back into lockdown. 727 00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:39,920 Speaker 2: My parents don't live in Auckland. Who were coming to 728 00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 2: get me because obviously I've moved back from England, I 729 00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,120 Speaker 2: don't have any way to live. I was going to 730 00:42:43,120 --> 00:42:45,200 Speaker 2: live with my parents. They live outside of Auckland, like 731 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:46,280 Speaker 2: two hours outside of Auckland. 732 00:42:46,280 --> 00:42:49,280 Speaker 1: Oh, and put the barrier up. Yeah, so a bus 733 00:42:49,280 --> 00:42:51,120 Speaker 1: had to drive us outside to Mercer. 734 00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:54,799 Speaker 2: So actually someone came up to get me to bring 735 00:42:54,880 --> 00:42:58,320 Speaker 2: me down because I couldn't physically get myself down because 736 00:42:58,360 --> 00:43:03,759 Speaker 2: I was so overwhelmed. She'd put me, she had to 737 00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,080 Speaker 2: put me in a different elevator because COVID, but she 738 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,279 Speaker 2: took my bag, she got me sorted with, like she 739 00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 2: did all my paperwork. She'd take me around to the 740 00:43:12,520 --> 00:43:14,920 Speaker 2: different places that I needed to go and got me 741 00:43:14,960 --> 00:43:17,239 Speaker 2: on the bus because I couldn't do it. 742 00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:19,839 Speaker 3: So it was just. 743 00:43:20,520 --> 00:43:23,759 Speaker 2: Different experiences that supported me the way through. I don't 744 00:43:23,800 --> 00:43:25,360 Speaker 2: know how we got onto this part of the story, 745 00:43:25,440 --> 00:43:26,960 Speaker 2: but how you became a counselor. 746 00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,960 Speaker 1: She was like I don't even know was it well, 747 00:43:30,200 --> 00:43:32,319 Speaker 1: you know, because obviously you've had all these experiences and 748 00:43:32,360 --> 00:43:34,200 Speaker 1: I think, I don't know if this is where you're 749 00:43:34,200 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 1: going with that as well, But having all of those 750 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:40,280 Speaker 1: people that were helping you along the way, that was that. Yeah. 751 00:43:40,320 --> 00:43:42,439 Speaker 2: So they supported me all the way through, even though 752 00:43:42,560 --> 00:43:43,880 Speaker 2: I was a shell of a person. 753 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:47,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, I thought I didn't want to be a teacher anymore. 754 00:43:47,800 --> 00:43:50,680 Speaker 2: I definitely set myself to the point where I had 755 00:43:50,719 --> 00:43:54,399 Speaker 2: burnt myself out. It wasn't something I wanted to do. 756 00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:56,880 Speaker 2: I think I just had set myself to that point. 757 00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:01,719 Speaker 2: I just finished high school, just did it. 758 00:44:01,560 --> 00:44:03,239 Speaker 1: And then became an assistant principle. 759 00:44:04,719 --> 00:44:07,160 Speaker 2: So I just and then I really sat down and 760 00:44:07,160 --> 00:44:09,040 Speaker 2: thought about it. It took me about six months to 761 00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:14,840 Speaker 2: put myself back together again. Yeah, and I decided that 762 00:44:15,600 --> 00:44:19,839 Speaker 2: being a counselor was something that I wanted to give back. Yeah, 763 00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:23,920 Speaker 2: you know, I also wanted to highlight the fact that 764 00:44:25,280 --> 00:44:30,160 Speaker 2: you can live with mental health, you can live with BPD, 765 00:44:31,160 --> 00:44:34,719 Speaker 2: and you can do anything. You are going to have 766 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:39,640 Speaker 2: roadblocks because God forbid. You know, I have some physical 767 00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:43,600 Speaker 2: health issues at the moment that are causing me some issues, 768 00:44:44,400 --> 00:44:48,200 Speaker 2: and at the moment I have when I go into 769 00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:53,120 Speaker 2: the hospital. I don't disclose my BPD at the moment 770 00:44:53,600 --> 00:44:55,520 Speaker 2: until the very end when they asked me what my 771 00:44:55,560 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 2: medications are, and then they asked me why I am 772 00:44:59,640 --> 00:45:00,759 Speaker 2: on those medications. 773 00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:03,200 Speaker 1: Then I tell them I. 774 00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:06,719 Speaker 2: Have BPD, but they've already treated me medical for my 775 00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:09,280 Speaker 2: physical attributes at tributes. 776 00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,719 Speaker 1: That's so helpful that you were diagnosed overseas for that, 777 00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,400 Speaker 1: because I know in New Zealand that a lot of 778 00:45:14,400 --> 00:45:16,440 Speaker 1: the times it comes up on your hospital records they 779 00:45:16,480 --> 00:45:17,040 Speaker 1: type your name. 780 00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:19,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, it already comes up on my hospital records 781 00:45:19,680 --> 00:45:24,360 Speaker 2: now because I've been back for four years and because 782 00:45:24,400 --> 00:45:29,480 Speaker 2: I've had so many like I'm very much into the 783 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:32,680 Speaker 2: system with psychiatrists and things like that, so it's very 784 00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,879 Speaker 2: much intertwined with within the hospital systems. But I think 785 00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:41,399 Speaker 2: definitely that it was yeah, yeah, diagnosed overseas lot. 786 00:45:41,800 --> 00:45:45,239 Speaker 1: I think, Man, I'm so thankful that you've been willing 787 00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:47,440 Speaker 1: to sit down with me twice and a short spent 788 00:45:47,520 --> 00:45:48,959 Speaker 1: a time. We did the last ones if you nicey 789 00:45:49,000 --> 00:45:51,839 Speaker 1: long ago. But like I said at the beginning, I 790 00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:56,719 Speaker 1: just think you represent Hope so well and just the 791 00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,360 Speaker 1: way that you've been able to go and create this 792 00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,080 Speaker 1: career and to be able to do it, to be 793 00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,919 Speaker 1: helping people and to show people that you can live 794 00:46:07,040 --> 00:46:08,600 Speaker 1: a successful life. And I love what you just said 795 00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,040 Speaker 1: before you can do anything, like you can absolutely do anything. 796 00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:14,560 Speaker 1: And we've talked about their advice that you know you 797 00:46:14,600 --> 00:46:17,400 Speaker 1: have people with BPD and the people around BPD. And 798 00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:19,799 Speaker 1: there's one last question that I want to say before 799 00:46:19,800 --> 00:46:20,840 Speaker 1: I let you go. I don't want to let you 800 00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:22,880 Speaker 1: go because I could talk to you for hours, but 801 00:46:22,920 --> 00:46:24,640 Speaker 1: also I'm going to get told off if I do that. 802 00:46:24,840 --> 00:46:28,200 Speaker 1: But I want to know I asked this to every person. 803 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,840 Speaker 1: This podcast is called Hope is Real. What does the 804 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:32,960 Speaker 1: word hope mean to you? 805 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:38,480 Speaker 2: I think hope can encapsulate so many different things. But 806 00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:51,200 Speaker 2: hope that life doesn't end when you think it does. 807 00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:58,719 Speaker 2: Hope that you have got so much more life to live, 808 00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:07,600 Speaker 2: and that just because you may have a diagnosis of BPD, 809 00:47:08,120 --> 00:47:09,399 Speaker 2: you know there is still hope. 810 00:47:10,000 --> 00:47:12,600 Speaker 1: I love that. I love that. Thank you so much 811 00:47:12,600 --> 00:47:13,160 Speaker 1: for coming on. 812 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:15,200 Speaker 3: The podcast, appreciate having me. 813 00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:17,319 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, let's do this again twelve more times. 814 00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:18,560 Speaker 1: So much need to discuss. 815 00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:20,160 Speaker 3: I could talk till the cows come on. 816 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,279 Speaker 1: That's the problem. No, Thank you so much for coming on. 817 00:47:24,320 --> 00:47:27,880 Speaker 1: You're so welcome. Thank you for having me well that 818 00:47:28,000 --> 00:47:30,680 Speaker 1: you have it, guys, thank you so much for staying 819 00:47:30,680 --> 00:47:33,200 Speaker 1: and for listening to this episode. And like I've said 820 00:47:33,200 --> 00:47:35,799 Speaker 1: at the beginning, and I always say, if anything in 821 00:47:35,840 --> 00:47:38,640 Speaker 1: this episode that's been talked about has brought anything up 822 00:47:38,680 --> 00:47:40,840 Speaker 1: for you, you feel like you need to talk to someone, 823 00:47:41,160 --> 00:47:43,799 Speaker 1: then please remember and know that the bravest thing that 824 00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,600 Speaker 1: you can do right now is to talk to someone, 825 00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:49,240 Speaker 1: is to ask for help, whether that's from a friend, 826 00:47:49,280 --> 00:47:51,600 Speaker 1: a family member, or if you don't know who to 827 00:47:51,640 --> 00:47:54,680 Speaker 1: talk to, then if you live in Altiola here you 828 00:47:54,719 --> 00:47:57,880 Speaker 1: can call or text one seven three seven at any 829 00:47:57,920 --> 00:48:00,400 Speaker 1: time to talk to a trained counselor. Or if you 830 00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:03,440 Speaker 1: live overseas, go to dubdubdub dot the Voices of Hope 831 00:48:03,480 --> 00:48:07,000 Speaker 1: dot org for a list of international helplines. Remember that 832 00:48:07,040 --> 00:48:09,120 Speaker 1: no matter what it is that you're facing, no matter 833 00:48:09,120 --> 00:48:11,920 Speaker 1: what it is that you're going through, that in all things, 834 00:48:12,080 --> 00:48:14,920 Speaker 1: hope is real and change is possible. I'll see you 835 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:20,880 Speaker 1: guys next week