1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:02,040 Speaker 1: If we joined. The Trade Minister on the road this 2 00:00:02,120 --> 00:00:04,840 Speaker 1: morning is in Saudi on his way to Washington, tariff 3 00:00:04,920 --> 00:00:08,000 Speaker 1: at fifteen percent worse than places like the UK and Australia. 4 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,039 Speaker 1: Of course, the hoper's arms can be twisted at Todd McClay, 5 00:00:11,080 --> 00:00:12,640 Speaker 1: Trade Minister back with this morning. 6 00:00:13,039 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 2: Mike, good morning. 7 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: Before we talk about Washington, talk to me about Saudi 8 00:00:16,079 --> 00:00:18,239 Speaker 1: Arabia as the sort of the emirates in the Middle East. 9 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:21,360 Speaker 1: Matures are you Are you bullush about what we've signed 10 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: there and what we're doing there? 11 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:24,880 Speaker 2: Yes, i am. 12 00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 3: This is I think it's my fourth trip up here 13 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,200 Speaker 3: since the election, and the relationship is growing. I had 14 00:00:31,200 --> 00:00:33,479 Speaker 3: a chance to meet quite a few New Zealand companies 15 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:34,440 Speaker 3: that are doing work here. 16 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 2: There's a huge amount. 17 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,160 Speaker 3: Of construction going on, but the government meetings that I'm having, 18 00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 3: they want to do a whole lot with us, and 19 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:45,400 Speaker 3: you know, it's just another footprint in the Middle East 20 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:48,200 Speaker 3: where Kiwi exporters, you know, can do well. 21 00:00:48,360 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: From my observation, the Middle East in general seem like 22 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 1: what you would call genuine free traders, so they're not 23 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 1: We're not tied up in a lot of paperwork and 24 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,880 Speaker 1: red tape and ideology. Is that fair or not? 25 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, that is right, And that's a change over the 26 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 3: last ten years. I think when I was tradeing, this 27 00:01:04,920 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 3: is the last time it was a pretty tough place 28 00:01:06,840 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 3: for Kiwis to do business. Saudi, as an example, is 29 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:12,920 Speaker 3: quite open now. They are welcoming the world. They have 30 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 3: people from everywhere there. They want, you know, want companies 31 00:01:15,800 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 3: to come and set up. They see they just see 32 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:20,679 Speaker 3: themselves as you know, being quite open, and there's a 33 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 3: real sense of vibrancy and energy here. It's almost as 34 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 3: if you know, anything can happen and it's all good. 35 00:01:26,840 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: All right. 36 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: Next up Washington, what chance you get something tangible? 37 00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,680 Speaker 3: Yeah, look, I'm not going there to get the tariffrate off, 38 00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:36,080 Speaker 3: and that's not going to happen. So I want to 39 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,240 Speaker 3: be pretty clear what the President has done, has said 40 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:42,399 Speaker 3: every single country that had a trade surplus last year 41 00:01:42,440 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 3: against the US is fifteen percent or more. But what 42 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:48,920 Speaker 3: I'm going up to do is one express you know 43 00:01:49,000 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 3: the harm that I think that's doing to trade. But 44 00:01:51,320 --> 00:01:55,360 Speaker 3: then secondly, what's the process for US to have that 45 00:01:55,480 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 3: tarifyrate come down? If we move back to the US 46 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:02,520 Speaker 3: having a surp deficit, which actually most of the time, 47 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:04,840 Speaker 3: our trade has been in another direction and is generally 48 00:02:04,840 --> 00:02:07,400 Speaker 3: going to buy planes, gives and stuff the government's likely 49 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:07,800 Speaker 3: to do. 50 00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:09,640 Speaker 2: So what's the process from here. 51 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 3: Secondly, we just need so much more certainty for our exporters. 52 00:02:13,960 --> 00:02:16,800 Speaker 3: If it's going to keep changing, tell us that so 53 00:02:16,880 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 3: that they can work out where the risk is and 54 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 3: what they're going to do. 55 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 2: So we'll be up there. 56 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:23,480 Speaker 3: Look, it's going to be a robust conversation, but it's 57 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,640 Speaker 3: a very very important one for US SUS to start 58 00:02:25,680 --> 00:02:26,079 Speaker 3: doing that. 59 00:02:26,240 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 1: So the Blake, you deal with this James and Green guy? 60 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: Who is he and does he make any decisions? And 61 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: how far short of the president is he? And I 62 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:35,480 Speaker 1: mean is he really a good contact point? 63 00:02:36,520 --> 00:02:37,359 Speaker 2: Yeah, he's very good. 64 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:40,760 Speaker 3: So he's the United States trade representative, that's their trade 65 00:02:41,560 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 3: their trade minister, I suppose you put it. He's the 66 00:02:44,080 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 3: one that's doing most of the negotiation with China at 67 00:02:47,040 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 3: the moment. The other part or part of this is 68 00:02:50,280 --> 00:02:54,400 Speaker 3: their Commerce secretary, who also is involved in other parts 69 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 3: of the world. But I think what's really really clear 70 00:02:57,800 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 3: is that the final decision on what happens rest with 71 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,959 Speaker 3: President Trump. And in my conversation with jameson Greer less 72 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 3: than twenty four hours after, you know, the President made 73 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 3: the announcement of New Zealand other countries going up by 74 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 3: that five percent. 75 00:03:11,639 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 2: It was as simple as this. 76 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 3: The President said, give me the list of all the 77 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 3: countries the surface about fifteen percent of more, and he 78 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,480 Speaker 3: put a ring around them. And so the decision, the 79 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,320 Speaker 3: final decision making, is in the White House. 80 00:03:21,480 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: So from his point of view, Trump's point of view, 81 00:03:24,639 --> 00:03:26,960 Speaker 1: you can understand his logic. Is that fair? I mean, 82 00:03:27,000 --> 00:03:28,919 Speaker 1: we do have there is a surplus there, and he 83 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 1: wants to balance that. 84 00:03:29,720 --> 00:03:34,520 Speaker 3: Well yeah, well, well you know our surplus is modest. 85 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 3: It's five hundred million dollars. I mean, I was in 86 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:42,920 Speaker 3: Indonesia a week ago and there's a sixteen billion, right, 87 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:45,000 Speaker 3: and so that's sitting at nineteen percent. 88 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 2: So I do get that he wants to balance that out. 89 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 3: But if you think about New Zealand and the case 90 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 3: that I will continue to make to them, US goods 91 00:03:53,840 --> 00:03:57,080 Speaker 3: into New Zealand average face a zero point three percent 92 00:03:57,160 --> 00:03:57,720 Speaker 3: tariff rate. 93 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,360 Speaker 2: We are an open economy, we respect the rules. 94 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 3: There is nothing stopping trade with the US, and so ultimately, 95 00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,960 Speaker 3: you know, there's not that much we can do, although 96 00:04:08,320 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 3: it will swing in the other direction. But I think 97 00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 3: the important thing, Mike is, you know, the US is 98 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:14,520 Speaker 3: still an important market for New Zealand. 99 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:15,640 Speaker 2: We're still selling up there. 100 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:18,960 Speaker 3: As tariff rates go up, of course it becomes harder, 101 00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,159 Speaker 3: but there is growing evidence that this is inflationary and 102 00:04:22,200 --> 00:04:24,839 Speaker 3: the costs have been passed on in many cases to 103 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 3: US consumers. So I think there's a long way to 104 00:04:26,920 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 3: go yet before you know exactly how this tariff new 105 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,080 Speaker 3: tariff raising and putting in place is going to work. 106 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: What he seems to like as deals, why don't you 107 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:36,560 Speaker 1: buy a couple of planes or something. 108 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we'll be talking about that certainly, But I 109 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:42,279 Speaker 3: don't know that we should rush out and do something 110 00:04:42,320 --> 00:04:42,960 Speaker 3: just straight away. 111 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:45,159 Speaker 2: I mean, ultimately we're going to keep doing what we're doing. 112 00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,000 Speaker 2: There'll be things that get brought from America and you know, 113 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 2: things that will buy from them. But it is the 114 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 2: start of that conversation. 115 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 3: When I met jameson Greer in Corea a couple of 116 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 3: months ago, and I think it was a third time 117 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 3: i'd had a conversation with him, he was very frank. 118 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:00,720 Speaker 3: He said, you are the good guys. We don't really 119 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,479 Speaker 3: have a problem with you. We're negotiating with all the 120 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:06,599 Speaker 3: other countries of the world that have big, big trade 121 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 3: surpluses or very high tariff you're not that we should 122 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,240 Speaker 3: sit down and talk later in the year. As a 123 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,279 Speaker 3: result of the President making this decision, that's moved some 124 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:18,960 Speaker 3: of that conversation forward. So look, I'm not going I'm 125 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:20,719 Speaker 3: going to be clear again that the fifteen percent is 126 00:05:20,720 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 3: not coming off. That's the new flow for anybody with 127 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 3: a surplus. But we need to see the process forward 128 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,039 Speaker 3: and get them much more certainty for our exporters because 129 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 3: you know, in the end, if it happens again, for 130 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,920 Speaker 3: any reason, he decides to put it up against those countries, 131 00:05:35,200 --> 00:05:36,960 Speaker 3: it really is going to start biting, all. 132 00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:39,600 Speaker 1: Right, I appreciate it. Trevor well Top played Trade Minister. 133 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 3: For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast Listen live to 134 00:05:43,320 --> 00:05:46,400 Speaker 3: News Talks. It'd be from six am weekdays, or follow 135 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:47,960 Speaker 3: the podcast on iHeartRadio.