1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:02,760 Speaker 1: Pressure this morning on the Prime Minister to separate New 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: Zealand's foreign policy from that of America's. A cross party 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: coalition of prominent leaders have signed an open leader urging 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: the Prime Minister to not take an adversarial stance towards China. 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: List of figures include Helen Clarks, Jeffrey Palmers to David Carter, 6 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,000 Speaker 1: and Don Brash, former National Party leader of course and 7 00:00:20,120 --> 00:00:21,840 Speaker 1: Reserve Bank governor. Who's with me this morning? 8 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:22,000 Speaker 2: Don? 9 00:00:22,040 --> 00:00:24,919 Speaker 1: Good morning, Good morning, right, Good to have you on program. 10 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,200 Speaker 1: So this is a position I know you've had for 11 00:00:27,240 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: a while, but what exactly is the government doing to 12 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 1: get what are we doing to get too close to 13 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:35,600 Speaker 1: America and further from China. 14 00:00:36,720 --> 00:00:38,320 Speaker 2: Well, a number of things that have been done in 15 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:42,159 Speaker 2: the last twelve eighty months, I guess the most obvious thing. 16 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:44,600 Speaker 2: We sailed one of our naval ships through the Taiwan 17 00:00:44,680 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 2: Straits straight. We've long regarded Taiwan as part of China. 18 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 2: Standing naval ships through that strait is very offensive to China. 19 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,960 Speaker 2: And we know that We've recently signed a special kind 20 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,840 Speaker 2: of military relationship with the Philippines, despite the fact they 21 00:00:59,840 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: are a low level confrontation with China. We've done all 22 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 2: kinds of We sent two delegations to Taiwan, led by 23 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:13,240 Speaker 2: National Party MPs, knowing that that offends China, and they've 24 00:01:13,280 --> 00:01:16,800 Speaker 2: met with the President of China of Taiwan. I mean, 25 00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:21,919 Speaker 2: we go out of our way to offend China. Judith Colins, 26 00:01:21,959 --> 00:01:24,319 Speaker 2: Minister of Defense, has made a number of speeches in 27 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:28,479 Speaker 2: which you clearly implied that China was a military threat 28 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,520 Speaker 2: to New Zealand and we should ally ourselves with the 29 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 2: United States to prevent that. 30 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 1: Now are they not? I mean, you know, of. 31 00:01:35,920 --> 00:01:38,000 Speaker 2: Course they're not. I mean, in what sense are they 32 00:01:38,040 --> 00:01:40,000 Speaker 2: a threat to New Zealand with no sense. 33 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:43,040 Speaker 1: That when push comes to shove and one day when 34 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:46,440 Speaker 1: they either quarantine or blockade Taiwan, what do we do? 35 00:01:46,560 --> 00:01:48,400 Speaker 1: Who sided? You know, what side do we take? 36 00:01:48,480 --> 00:01:52,800 Speaker 2: Now? It's not about business. We regard Taiwan as part 37 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 2: of China, and we were out of that since nineteen 38 00:01:55,040 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 2: seventy two. It's not our business at all. The United 39 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:04,080 Speaker 2: States if they want a military confrontation with China, so 40 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:06,160 Speaker 2: be it. I hope they don't have such a confrontation. 41 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:08,320 Speaker 2: It's not good for either country. We want to attain 42 00:02:08,360 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 2: a good relationship with both the United States and China. 43 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:13,880 Speaker 2: But we can't do that if the United States is 44 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 2: held bent on a military confrontation with China. 45 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:19,800 Speaker 1: What about Aucust You've obviously got concerns about August. What 46 00:02:19,840 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: exactly are they? 47 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 2: What Aucus is as it stands in its pure form, 48 00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,079 Speaker 2: a nuclear submarine deal, where by Australia will require nuclear 49 00:02:29,120 --> 00:02:32,760 Speaker 2: subs from the United States at enormous costs some three 50 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:36,600 Speaker 2: hundred and seventy billion Australian dollars. Most experts say Australia 51 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:38,959 Speaker 2: will never actually get those submarines for a variety of 52 00:02:39,000 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 2: technic inquitions they won't boy you with. But it's deliberately 53 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:47,240 Speaker 2: and explicitly an anti China military relationship. Well, if Australia 54 00:02:47,280 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 2: wants to do that, that's Australia's fair, but it should 55 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:50,760 Speaker 2: not be ours. 56 00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:55,040 Speaker 1: What about that We've just yesterday a lot of our 57 00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:58,639 Speaker 1: troops have gone on Canterbury off to a military exercise 58 00:02:58,720 --> 00:03:05,720 Speaker 1: with the US and with the Australians. Those drills rile China. 59 00:03:05,919 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 1: Do you think we should be not engaging with them 60 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:10,320 Speaker 1: minither Absolutely not. 61 00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 2: Why would we do that? 62 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 1: Well, we need to he otherwise they're doing nothing. You 63 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:17,800 Speaker 1: know what would the what would the doing what? 64 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,080 Speaker 2: I don't know what they'll be doing, but in any case, 65 00:03:22,480 --> 00:03:26,040 Speaker 2: what why take better and exercise which is explicitly aimed 66 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:29,640 Speaker 2: against China, which is lotaly not thrittening US. It's our 67 00:03:29,760 --> 00:03:33,840 Speaker 2: largest export market by a country mile. I mean, it's 68 00:03:33,919 --> 00:03:35,760 Speaker 2: it's daft in every dimension. 69 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,120 Speaker 1: Don I appreciate you coming on the program. Don brash Form, 70 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 1: the national party leader, very much encouraging Luxon to move 71 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: away from America or at least be a disinterested party 72 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 1: in that battle between the States and China. 73 00:03:52,280 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: For more from early edition with Ryan Bridge, Listen live 74 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:58,400 Speaker 2: to news Talks it'd be from five am weekdays, or 75 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,320 Speaker 2: follow the podcast on iHeart Radio.