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Speaker 1: On the Front Foot with Brian Waddell and Jeremy Coney
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Speaker 2: Hello, welcome back to on the Front Foot the World
Speaker 2: Tea Quinsy goes as many expected to India in arguably
Speaker 2: the best game of the tournament. Our women's team suffer
Speaker 2: too heavy defeats at the hands of England. The English
Speaker 2: our poor. Yet another wiki keeper for the test series
Speaker 2: of the West Indies, a preview of what we can
Speaker 2: expect in December, and as I welcome well one special
Speaker 2: guest in Formanusi Kreta, Peter Holland and Jeremy Cony is
Speaker 2: a regular Inness program. I say, arguably the best game
Speaker 2: at the World T twenty Jerry, as it seemed to
Speaker 2: be pretty even in terms of pitch conditions and ground conditions.
Speaker 2: Did you see it that way.
Speaker 3: Yep, I think I did once. Good match, actually, wasn't it.
Speaker 3: India won the toss and their style was always to
Speaker 3: bat first, which I think is a good way, especially
Speaker 3: in large games. Were runs on the board and there
Speaker 3: was good enough runs to use their strong bowling attack. Yeah,
Speaker 3: their batting, they've changed their batting too. Rowat as captain
Speaker 3: seems to have got all them away from individual milestones,
Speaker 3: getting fifties, getting hundreds, that kind of thing, and instead
Speaker 3: he's put in place lots of cameos quite quick, you know,
Speaker 3: thirty or fifteen of twenty two and those kinds of things.
Speaker 4: And that happened again.
Speaker 3: He did it by showing his innings that he played
Speaker 3: himself leading up to the final where he didn't get
Speaker 3: so many runs and they lost three quick wickets, and
Speaker 3: then Coley had to make a decision, didn't he. He
Speaker 3: got started after a pretty poor ans and first over,
Speaker 3: and then he had to choose, am I going to
Speaker 3: bat through here and leave others to take the risks
Speaker 3: as they had all and all the other matches, or
Speaker 3: do I crack on and perhaps lose a fourth wicket myself?
Speaker 3: And in doing so he kind of became a bit
Speaker 3: of a hero, but he could also have been a villain,
Speaker 3: couldn't he?
Speaker 2: Yeah, most definitely, And welcome back to Peter Holland, who
Speaker 2: they weren't paying tea twenty cricket when you were around
Speaker 2: with it.
Speaker 5: They certainly were not in the game.
Speaker 2: What Jerry points out is it has changed as a
Speaker 2: bad game, and I think the conditions in the Caribbean
Speaker 2: demanded that, didn't it, in terms of how you put
Speaker 2: together your innings.
Speaker 5: My observation was, and perhaps this is where our teams
Speaker 5: and others weren't able to adapt coally adapted. Took a
Speaker 5: decision in very difficult circumstances Final World Cup, World Cup Final,
Speaker 5: and he made that decision and could adapt and got
Speaker 5: them and got them through, got them to a number,
Speaker 5: because it could have quite easily been the other way around.
Speaker 5: I'm thinking to myself that now that they have retired
Speaker 5: both O oh it and I think that the Dead
Speaker 5: Asian is also retiring from the twenty twenty. You know,
Speaker 5: you lose that, you lose that experience, and I'm wondering
Speaker 5: without those people at the Helm, how Wendy you will
Speaker 5: be talent, no question, but it's just that ability to
Speaker 5: shift gears or change direction. It was very, very impressive
Speaker 5: and put them in a position to win.
Speaker 3: Key point for me in the game, obviously the class
Speaker 3: and wicket losing that because he played that brilliant over
Speaker 3: against Akshapetel, didn't he where he got twenty four and
Speaker 3: that really put South Africa in with a chance of
Speaker 3: winning the game quite comfortably at that stage. But he
Speaker 3: lost his wicket and you're a bit lucky to get
Speaker 3: that slower ball from Pandia and it got an edge.
Speaker 3: Then it was thirty from thirty. But the catch of
Speaker 3: Surya Kumar is the other point, isn't it really? And
Speaker 3: I don't know what you thought.
Speaker 2: It was.
Speaker 3: Wasn't extraordinarily difficult catch. We see those catches kind of
Speaker 3: a lot nowadays round the boundary, But it was the
Speaker 3: context of the catch.
Speaker 2: For me.
Speaker 4: It was the last over.
Speaker 3: If that goes for six, then it's a big five
Speaker 3: balls coming up with ten required and it's getting tight
Speaker 3: with Miller on strike. And I thought the catch was
Speaker 3: about balance and about knowing where you were relative to
Speaker 3: the boundary, or that the toddler in this case, you know,
Speaker 3: the inside edge of the toddler owns the boundary and
Speaker 3: I just wondered, you know, we often grown about a
Speaker 3: tvump who goes over and over and over dismissals and
Speaker 3: looking at it from different angles, and when it's an
Speaker 3: obvious dismissal. But I just thought, kettlebur in this case,
Speaker 3: he could have taken another kind of look from another angle.
Speaker 3: I thought, a because it was a crucial wicket, it
Speaker 3: was class and it was sorry, it was miller. And secondly,
Speaker 3: because Siria Kumar seized nine and a half clogs, they
Speaker 3: were pretty close to that toddler own and he only
Speaker 3: has to touch it or ruffle it and it would
Speaker 3: have been not out. So I wondered whether another look
Speaker 3: would have been you know, would have been.
Speaker 5: Helpful, particularly given the circumstances. As you say, pretty much
Speaker 5: turned the game, didn't it.
Speaker 2: Yeah. The other situation too was that they at the
Speaker 2: eighteen overstage. India added forty two runs in eighteen, nineteen
Speaker 2: and twenty and that gave them the competitive score. South Africa,
Speaker 2: while they were going strong, were going well, but they
Speaker 2: could only score twenty two off the They're sorry, they
Speaker 2: could only score eighteen off the last three overs and
Speaker 2: they needed twenty two and that was the difference between
Speaker 2: the It's course at the end you can look at
Speaker 2: all sorts of instances, can't you, in these games and
Speaker 2: put a mark on them as the key point. But
Speaker 2: you know that catch, Yeah they practiced those these days,
Speaker 2: don't they They you know the fields out in the deep.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah they do.
Speaker 3: I mean what India where they were a bit different
Speaker 3: than other sides. I mean New Zealand tried to do this.
Speaker 3: They had two Boomera overs left, didn't they after the catch?
Speaker 3: And you know they like Williamson against the West End,
Speaker 3: he's tried to push the game out the one run,
Speaker 3: you know, raised run rate or two claim a wicket
Speaker 3: And India had bitter bowlers with Boomera and arsh Deep
Speaker 3: and then they used Pandia who was a bit hit
Speaker 3: and miss, but he got wickets because I reckon the
Speaker 3: South African saw that as being easier to score off
Speaker 3: than the other two. But Boomer was fantastic, wasn't he.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: Some of the deliveries he bowled, getting that guy even
Speaker 3: right early on, getting Hendrix with a wonderful delivery that
Speaker 3: just was aiming at leg stump and then it straightens
Speaker 3: up and swings out slightly, hits the top of off
Speaker 3: and then getting Yunsen were just carrying on and hit
Speaker 3: the leg stump and then arshep. Wasn't that easy to hit?
Speaker 3: I didn't think so. Yeah, I thought they were the
Speaker 3: best side was actually in the tournament, never mind all
Speaker 3: the nonsense that they got around for every game they
Speaker 3: played was a day game. I thought ten thirty was
Speaker 3: a silly time to play a final, to be honest
Speaker 3: or whatever it was. You know, throughout the tournament as
Speaker 3: an audience, absolutely well you can understand the ICC doing that,
Speaker 3: can't you, Because then they can charge more for the
Speaker 3: broadcast and they can get more cash. I can get
Speaker 3: that and that also if it rains, you've still got
Speaker 3: time in the day. But I think T twenties for
Speaker 3: an audience, don't you. I mean, it's a format that's
Speaker 3: a televisual thing. It's night at nighttime's lights, it's a
Speaker 3: couple of drinks and a close match. Yeah, so anyway,
Speaker 3: that's those are That's what I thought about the final.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, hear of the South Africans. I read an
Speaker 2: article that said, you know, they've got it, Where do
Speaker 2: they go to from here? They've failed to win these
Speaker 2: big tournaments but I don't think they need to reproach
Speaker 2: themselves in any way, do they. They They performed well,
Speaker 2: They were unbeaten up to the final, and they showed
Speaker 2: some consistency that we haven't seen in the past from them.
Speaker 5: I think that's undeniable. Will you go through that side?
Speaker 5: There a lot of talent in there, and they've got
Speaker 5: they've got the balance too, They've got some genuine quicks.
Speaker 5: They've got useful spinners, phenomenal middle order which can go,
Speaker 5: can change gears. Yeah, you got. You've got to say, well,
Speaker 5: this was pretty interesting for them, and and and I
Speaker 5: reckon on the face of it, they were that if
Speaker 5: India were the best in South Africa, the best two
Speaker 5: teams were in that final, no question about that. I
Speaker 5: think the future looks looks pretty pretty good for them
Speaker 5: if they can just hold that together. That was over impressive. Yeah,
Speaker 5: and I think there was quite a difference between them
Speaker 5: and everyone else.
Speaker 2: Yeah, showing out and the side.
Speaker 5: Like seeing a game in daylight and a beautiful ground
Speaker 5: in the middle of Barbados, it was rather spectacular. Maybe
Speaker 5: that's just me being somewhat of a blood eite and
Speaker 5: liking things sporting daylight. I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well we were able to do that because we
Speaker 2: were able to sit at home. They have morning tea
Speaker 2: or breakfast and or late lunch or late breakfast to
Speaker 2: to watch them, and that has advantages.
Speaker 4: You're eating a lot wattle.
Speaker 2: Well, I have to do something during the day, nothing
Speaker 2: else to do. I could go and play golf with
Speaker 2: Peter Holland I suppose couldn't.
Speaker 5: I tears two four, probably me.
Speaker 2: But the side that perhaps should be approaching themselves, Peter,
Speaker 2: is the New Zealand side. You know. I can accept
Speaker 2: the fact you're going to lose games. That happens in
Speaker 2: the game, but it's the manner with which they lost
Speaker 2: games and the way they played those games. To me,
Speaker 2: it looked as though we we just want to make
Speaker 2: them the numbers and take our paycheck.
Speaker 5: At the end of it all, I lost interest pretty quickly, frankly,
Speaker 5: because I just couldn't see. It seemed like a disjointed unit.
Speaker 5: On the face of it. There seemed to be a
Speaker 5: lack of lack of thought. It was interesting that that
Speaker 5: that India was preferred to bat first, but we preferred
Speaker 5: about second. There was players that there were players there
Speaker 5: that that that that hadn't played any cricket, the lack
Speaker 5: of preparation, It's all been gone over before, but it's
Speaker 5: just it was pretty woeful, wasn't it?
Speaker 2: Really?
Speaker 5: And I don't think they can say any more than that. Really,
Speaker 5: I think New Zealand's got a lot of thinking to
Speaker 5: do and direction, particularly around how they how they bring
Speaker 5: on new people because the older, the older guard, the
Speaker 5: world class players that we've had are leaving the room,
Speaker 5: so to speak.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well Bolt's gone, Sally's coming to the end, Williamson's
Speaker 2: going to be doing other things for a period of time,
Speaker 2: So it is time for a rethink, Jerry, isn't it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, We've been saying that for some time. It was
Speaker 3: a poor It was a poor tournament. All the players
Speaker 3: know that, and then will be We've said a review
Speaker 3: and I hope something from it. Really, they need to
Speaker 3: make some decisions.
Speaker 2: Yes, indeed, and I'm sure that they will be taking
Speaker 2: a time for reflection. I guess they need to make
Speaker 2: some decisions too about how women's team, the White Ferns.
Speaker 2: They haven't achieved much done their tour to England so far.
Speaker 2: They played three games, one of them was a warm
Speaker 2: up game. Two od eyes heavily beaten, unable to bet
Speaker 2: fifty overs. There were some individual performances for modest returns
Speaker 2: merely a curve. Acknowledged their plight after their second game
Speaker 2: in Worcester.
Speaker 6: We basically haven't got enough runs in both games. And
Speaker 6: the first one we obviously got off to a flyer
Speaker 6: and I thought it was a great wicket and outfield,
Speaker 6: and then today I thought they bowled extremely well, very accurate,
Speaker 6: and the wicket was a little bit slower. But I
Speaker 6: think we got to positions where we got partnerships and
Speaker 6: got in and did all the hard work and then
Speaker 6: obviously lost wickets and clumps, and you know, they're still
Speaker 6: one more game in the series, which is really important
Speaker 6: to us and we know of and a lot of
Speaker 6: work over our I guess leave and winter period to
Speaker 6: come over here and prepare, and it's you're still going
Speaker 6: to have the belief to keep backing mad and what
Speaker 6: you do well, and it's just doing those hard parts
Speaker 6: for longer and once we get ourselves in cashing in
Speaker 6: and then if we do bol second, giving the bowlers
Speaker 6: a bit more to defend.
Speaker 2: It was made a little bit tougher too by the
Speaker 2: exceptional bowling talents of Sophie Ecleston.
Speaker 6: Yeah, she's a world class bowler and she seems to
Speaker 6: pick up a lot of wickets, so another five wicket
Speaker 6: bag for her. And she's very good at what she does.
Speaker 6: She's extremely accurate and has great control over her deliveries,
Speaker 6: so she bowl extremely well. I mean, I think she's
Speaker 6: a real key for England. She's one of the best.
Speaker 6: She is the best bowler in the world, So how
Speaker 6: can we deny her wickets and keep her out of
Speaker 6: the game. But you also got to take your hat
Speaker 6: off and say say well bold.
Speaker 2: Also, so what can they take from the first two
Speaker 2: games to help prepare them for the third game against
Speaker 2: this very good England side.
Speaker 6: There's positives in both games to take from it. Obviously
Speaker 6: the first game, the way Georgia and Brooke played I
Speaker 6: thought was outstanding and that was really positive with the
Speaker 6: bat and today was I think a tougher wicker to
Speaker 6: slower outfield and I think people fought through some pretty
Speaker 6: hard moments in the game. I think Maddie was outstanding,
Speaker 6: like she struggled at the start, but then to kick
Speaker 6: on and not give a wicket away and build a
Speaker 6: partnership was awesome. And I think there's moments like that
Speaker 6: where kicking on from there is really important. And there's
Speaker 6: moments where we've done a lot of the hard work
Speaker 6: and got ourselves into good positions and then we get
Speaker 6: out And I think that's work on to just be
Speaker 6: a bit more relentless and ruthless and how we go
Speaker 6: about things. And everyone's got talent and skill and works
Speaker 6: bloody hard at what they do. So we've just got
Speaker 6: to have the confidence to turn up for the next ODI,
Speaker 6: play our best cricket for that, give ourselves a chance,
Speaker 6: and then we'll head into the t twenties.
Speaker 2: I really care. So what remedy for this team doing
Speaker 2: the same thing and expecting a different outcome isn't working?
Speaker 2: How do you remedy a situation like that? When a
Speaker 2: side is really struggling, they are looking second class against
Speaker 2: a world class England side. We've got some pretty useful players.
Speaker 2: How they better?
Speaker 5: Oh look, I mean I've just gone back and looked
Speaker 5: at the returns we're getting from our so called world
Speaker 5: class players, which you mean could is out undoubtedly that,
Speaker 5: But then you look at Sophie Devine sushi baks. Really
Speaker 5: we're not getting the output that say, the England teams
Speaker 5: are getting, and I just think that there's a class
Speaker 5: gap and the team's overall quite significant on the face
Speaker 5: of it. But I when I'm looking at the media
Speaker 5: occur in the last tens she hasn't got above fifty.
Speaker 5: Now that's pretty poor for someone of that ability that
Speaker 5: I look at people like Georgia Plummer. Frankly, her output
Speaker 5: is how can I say, pretty workful, and yet she's
Speaker 5: one of the shining lights so called. It has shades
Speaker 5: of the New Zealand men's team where our our world
Speaker 5: class players will formerly world class players like them, like
Speaker 5: Divine and Baits are on the on the decline and
Speaker 5: it doesn't seem to be that there's anything coming coming
Speaker 5: through with with any particular great signs of promise. I mean,
Speaker 5: there's some decent players, but they against this sort of
Speaker 5: class side, like like England. And I was really impressed
Speaker 5: by by them when you're watching them when they were
Speaker 5: here in New Zealand. That beautiful left arm spinner, Fabins,
Speaker 5: the keeper as a Jones, just beautiful man's and and
Speaker 5: and you know, just just absolutely phenomenal to watch. And
Speaker 5: then they're bad as this this New new players that
Speaker 5: may be you know, it gets a hundred, goes and
Speaker 5: gets a hundred. It seems to me that they play play.
Speaker 5: They play red ball cricket, don't they. So there was
Speaker 5: the then how to build innings, whereas I don't think
Speaker 5: I didn't see any of that, the ability to, like
Speaker 5: Kohley did, shift direction. Let's bat the fifty overs, let's
Speaker 5: do that, And that's been consistent watching them when they
Speaker 5: were here, playing against England in New Zealand, and clearly
Speaker 5: evident in the last couple of games over there. So
Speaker 5: there's some concerns, shall we.
Speaker 2: Say, you've got to be able to bet your fifty
Speaker 2: overs in these games, Jerry. I just wonder when you
Speaker 2: go on a tour like this. They've had a lot
Speaker 2: of net practice. They had one warm up game where
Speaker 2: everybody plays, you know how you have sort of sixteen
Speaker 2: and everybody has a bat in the bowl and then
Speaker 2: you have net practice. I just wonder whether they should
Speaker 2: be playing games and trying to bat fifty overs against
Speaker 2: the lesser sides as a build up for an international
Speaker 2: against England. Is net practice more important than match play?
Speaker 2: How do you see it?
Speaker 4: I'm not sure. Well, games are certainly.
Speaker 3: Are important onds because there's more pressure and when you're out,
Speaker 3: you're out. I don't I'm not a fan of too
Speaker 3: many of those sixteen versus sixteen. You can do it
Speaker 3: once or twice to give everyone a hit, but you
Speaker 3: can't let people go out and then come back in again,
Speaker 3: those those kinds of things to give them another innings.
Speaker 3: So games very important. Practice is important, all of it is, really.
Speaker 3: But these these figures are terrible, aren't they.
Speaker 4: I don't know.
Speaker 3: These are professional players, they are paid well, they'd train
Speaker 3: or have the opportunity to train every day. And we
Speaker 3: are afraid we are slipping, as Moose says, we're down
Speaker 3: behind Australia obviously.
Speaker 4: In England, India, India.
Speaker 3: They got six hundred the other day, six hundred in
Speaker 3: a Test match. So and they're playing Red Bull cricket
Speaker 3: against South Africa. We're mal heind South Africa now. Sri
Speaker 3: Lanka beat US last year. Look, I if these were
Speaker 3: T twenty games, I wouldn't feel so concerned. These are
Speaker 3: ODIs one fifty six and the T twenty matches. Okay,
Speaker 3: one forty one a bit light, which was their second
Speaker 3: total in the ODI. But it shows that we can't
Speaker 3: have much of a concept of fifty over cricket. And
Speaker 3: yet you look at Bates, who's had one hundred and
Speaker 3: sixty one ODIs per ameliacuse seventy two Divine, one hundred
Speaker 3: and forty five Green seventy one, row fifty six Halliday thirty.
Speaker 3: These are ODI matches that these players have played. Now
Speaker 3: to me, to be beaten by nine wickets and twenty
Speaker 3: eight overs remaining and eight wickets were twenty five point
Speaker 3: three overs remaining, I mean that's half the overs left
Speaker 3: in each game. I mean England's number five hasn't battered
Speaker 3: in two games. You know, I just wonder what their
Speaker 3: players are thinking. They must be muttering, you know, there's
Speaker 3: no challenge here. I wonder what the ECB are doing
Speaker 3: after three weeks. They've been there now in New Zealand
Speaker 3: three games, as you say, what and we're getting those results.
Speaker 3: I really it's hard to know. They've got two batting
Speaker 3: coaches over there, Dean Brownlee and Craig McMillan. They've got
Speaker 3: a coach from Luughborough who's the women's head coach Luughborough
Speaker 3: called Gareth Davis, and he's also the Worcestershire women's coach.
Speaker 3: He's also the assistant coach for the Birmingham Phoenix and
Speaker 3: the Hundred for the women, so he's an experienced coach.
Speaker 3: You can't really lay the blame that what's been tried
Speaker 3: to improve. They must be reeling those coaches.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: And I think as a player, just my last comment
Speaker 3: would be every player on that team has to delve
Speaker 3: down into them and just what sort of person am I?
Speaker 4: You know? How badly do I want this?
Speaker 3: And there's no impoint in looking around the room and
Speaker 3: showing with your eyes it was your fault, wasn't mine.
Speaker 3: Everybody must sort of go into their own little shell.
Speaker 3: I can remember in nineteen seventy three my first tour
Speaker 3: and we were beaten. I was twelfth man. We were
Speaker 3: beaten by Australia badly and Congo. Our captain took us
Speaker 3: to Sydney for the second Test and he gave us
Speaker 3: five hours of fielding practice every day and then we
Speaker 3: took us to the nets where that's.
Speaker 4: Where we went.
Speaker 3: After five hours. We had a salad for lunch, short catchers, slipcatchers,
Speaker 3: high catches, flat catchers, backing up, throwing and then and
Speaker 3: then when you bruised hands and that sort of thing,
Speaker 3: then you went to the nets. Now that was his
Speaker 3: way of doing it. That was Congo. But really I
Speaker 3: think this team clearly behind the opposite well behind, and
Speaker 3: it shouldn't be too hard because of the gap to
Speaker 3: close it, to move up a bit. That's what we've
Speaker 3: got to see play fifty over cricket because that's their
Speaker 3: longest type.
Speaker 2: Peter, I think there's a message there for you and I.
Speaker 2: We should have eaten more salads because Congon and Caney
Speaker 2: were very slim and grim, weren't they, And we probably
Speaker 2: need more, would we.
Speaker 5: I just wondered how Snippets could have possibly cut out
Speaker 5: those articles with those sore hands.
Speaker 4: Jerry, Yeah, he might have.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he might have paid someone snippet. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: We weren't getting much. We got nine dollars a day,
Speaker 3: so that that basically was the pay at that time,
Speaker 3: and Snippet would have been on that.
Speaker 5: No.
Speaker 3: I know, we all, we all, we all felt it.
Speaker 3: But the message came through very strongly. And it was
Speaker 3: the main players who set the standards, you know what
Speaker 3: I mean? It was it should be baits and cer
Speaker 3: and divine and Green and those people who drive those
Speaker 3: players and those practices on.
Speaker 5: Can I just add something on that? And I was
Speaker 5: when I was preparing for this, I looked up some
Speaker 5: of these people and I looked up Susie Bates, and
Speaker 5: Susie Bates is Adelaide Strikers women, Falcons women guy and
Speaker 5: an Amazon Warriors woman. Oh somewhere in the New Zealand woman.
Speaker 5: I tag a woman Open Invincibles, Perth Scorches, Sydney Sixers
Speaker 5: women and God bless them that they are professionals. But
Speaker 5: where is their priority? I wonder? And the same would
Speaker 5: apply to the two other players, Occur and Divine, And
Speaker 5: my old motivation is is that the priority is is
Speaker 5: getting those sort of contracts and New Zealand is somewhere
Speaker 5: fitted in there. And then that surely creates divides between
Speaker 5: the squad because I'll come back divined it when I
Speaker 5: finished over in Australia sort of thing. So, and I
Speaker 5: can't blame them for that because they are professionals, but
Speaker 5: again that creates I think there's challenge, is there? There's
Speaker 5: no question? I think it's clear that from your points jury,
Speaker 5: New Zealand Cricket's trying to do something to raise the standard,
Speaker 5: but perhaps the franket the pointers. If the ability is
Speaker 5: just not there, no matter what you do, the results
Speaker 5: are probably going to be the same. But batning fifty
Speaker 5: of us would help, wouldn't it.
Speaker 2: Yes, Well, that was challenge that the New Zealand the
Speaker 2: side faces and New Zealand Cricket. They've got a few
Speaker 2: reviews they're going to have to do after the World
Speaker 2: T twenty and also the women's event. Hey, a sign
Speaker 2: of what is going to come here later in the year.
Speaker 2: England have gone for a new wicket keeper.
Speaker 3: Now.
Speaker 2: I was reading an article by a guy called Shield Berry,
Speaker 2: who's one of the more respected journalists of cricket in England,
Speaker 2: and he was basically talking about the wicket keepers that
Speaker 2: they have to choose from best o folks, Salt Robinson
Speaker 2: as a keeper over they've got two Robinson's and they're
Speaker 2: both Allis James Rue and Jamie Smith. And they've gone
Speaker 2: for a guy called Jamie Smith. Now I have never
Speaker 2: heard of Jamie Smith Jeremy Kney, but you have because
Speaker 2: you have worked at the Oval as a commentator and
Speaker 2: he's a Surrey man.
Speaker 3: He is, and he's a very powerful batsman wards as well.
Speaker 3: So they are going for the bear Stow type player,
Speaker 3: a batsman who keeps, and so they are forgetting the
Speaker 3: Folks who keeps them bats because Folks also plays for Surrey.
Speaker 4: Who keeps for Surrey in the red bull fixtures Folks.
Speaker 3: Does, so Smith is not keeping when he plays for
Speaker 3: Surrey when he's playing championship matches. He does when it's
Speaker 3: white ball, but not for the red ball game. So
Speaker 3: their priorities quite clearly is to bat first for the
Speaker 3: keeper they need him to be and quickly. He's a
Speaker 3: very attacking batsman too. Jamie Smith good player of course,
Speaker 3: but but do you want to.
Speaker 4: Keep her first? And that's that's the question.
Speaker 3: So that's the way that the McCullum phases has chosen.
Speaker 3: And perhaps not so much in wickets that are turning.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but that's what they are going to
Speaker 3: be having.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well I've looked at these keepers, well four of
Speaker 2: them anyway, assault Folks besto. To my mind, Folks is
Speaker 2: arguably the best glove man, but that doesn't cut it
Speaker 2: these days, so it seems when it comes to selection
Speaker 2: and teams.
Speaker 5: I read this with great interest because I mean I
Speaker 5: Christa just always enjoyed watching folks keep. I mean, he's
Speaker 5: a fabulous keeper, great glove man and frankly, you always
Speaker 5: want those people because otherwise who take the important catches
Speaker 5: and you know, when you drop one and it doesn't
Speaker 5: quite work, we've got problems. He might be good better.
Speaker 5: So I thought that was a very interesting decision. This
Speaker 5: is a team clearly with an eye of the future,
Speaker 5: and that being the ashes down the down the line
Speaker 5: that dealing with with Robertson, who's who's a very very
Speaker 5: talented player bowl of that is, but clearly hasn't cut
Speaker 5: it and doesn't have the support of his captain. So
Speaker 5: this is a meldling of Okay, what do we need
Speaker 5: to have to take on the Aussies in in in
Speaker 5: the coming coming year. So I think this is all
Speaker 5: about planning for the future and giving them somemselves some options.
Speaker 2: Jerry, Jimmy Anderson's getting in the farewell. He's going to
Speaker 2: be playing for one Test and then see you later, Jimmy,
Speaker 2: and thanks very much. He's going to be the bowling
Speaker 2: mentor for England now. But there's a lot of new
Speaker 2: names there that you know are going to have to
Speaker 2: take up the job of bowling. Mark would of course
Speaker 2: from Chris Fokes. But Pennington Potts Atkinson as pace bowler
Speaker 2: is little narn names, aren't they.
Speaker 3: Yep, that's right. Just to go back to the batsman
Speaker 3: very quickly. Bear Stow's out completely, isn't he? That should
Speaker 3: be mentioned. Dan Lawrence is the extra batsman and otherwise
Speaker 3: the top six are all the same. We've mentioned the
Speaker 3: keeper Josh Tungue is injured and so it was Jamie
Speaker 3: Overden for the bowling. This guy Pennington, you might not
Speaker 3: have heard of him so much. He was in England
Speaker 3: under twenty six foot four tall, fella blonde guy, and
Speaker 3: he's now at Nottingham with Peter Moores, who's considered quite
Speaker 3: a good coach of younger players. He's twenty in his
Speaker 3: early twenties Pennington and in particular Kevin Shine who was
Speaker 3: the former ECB bowling coach, and he's changed his little
Speaker 3: lead up in his bowling prior to releasing the ball
Speaker 3: a little bit. He isn't the pace of Atkinson, who's
Speaker 3: also in that site, but he's fast enough about eighty
Speaker 3: and the mid eighties, so he's one thirty six what
Speaker 3: to one thirty eight. K's no room for Robinson, he's
Speaker 3: not He's had a bad Test match recently in India.
Speaker 3: They don't want him back. Pots is there, as you say,
Speaker 3: and Wokes so yes, different They are embracing the change,
Speaker 3: aren't they. We've just been saying New Zealand sort of
Speaker 3: hanging on with their bowlers at the time when perhaps
Speaker 3: we need to slide them in and I think we'll
Speaker 3: see them coming. But yeah, there are some changes there,
Speaker 3: no doubt. And Basher is the spinner. That's an interesting
Speaker 3: one too, ahead of Leech because both of them play
Speaker 3: for Somerset and the club has kept Leech as their
Speaker 3: number one bowler and sent Basher on loan to another county.
Speaker 3: So they, like all, a man who spins it gets
Speaker 3: it to drop a little bit. And what Moose was
Speaker 3: saying there about the Aussies on Ossie pictures, he might
Speaker 3: get a bit more bounce and they can go in
Speaker 3: with four seamers and one spinner a little bit like
Speaker 3: the Aussies do with Lyon.
Speaker 4: But they really lack a left.
Speaker 3: Arm quick like us, you know, to change an angle
Speaker 3: as well.
Speaker 5: Yeah, just on robertson material and Wads, I saw here
Speaker 5: that he has seventy six Test wickets from twenty games
Speaker 5: at twenty two point ninety two. Yeah, pretty, Ollie Robinson.
Speaker 5: I mean the guy's are talent. And then I read
Speaker 5: down that when he was went to India he was
Speaker 5: accompanied by his new partner, a social media influencer. He
Speaker 5: launched a post while in India. So yes, that didn't
Speaker 5: go well, did it.
Speaker 2: And he has a fitness problem too, doesn't He tends
Speaker 2: to like to eat and.
Speaker 5: Correct correctly deliver the You just sort of think that's
Speaker 5: a great shame.
Speaker 2: It's going to be an interesting series to see England
Speaker 2: because it is a new look side and you bring
Speaker 2: in bowlers like that, and New Zealand are going to
Speaker 2: have to do that, aren't they. Because they've lost Wagon,
Speaker 2: they've lost Bolt, they've lost or losing Southy. Surely you
Speaker 2: know he's not going to get around forever and we're
Speaker 2: going to have to look at the likes of O'Rourke
Speaker 2: and those players Sears. So hopefully they've got Jamison back
Speaker 2: fit and ready to go and that will be the
Speaker 2: start of a new but it will be a new
Speaker 2: bowling attack for New Zealand, won't it. They You know
Speaker 2: the four they've relied on and have done bloody well.
Speaker 2: You know when you think about the the work they've done.
Speaker 2: They'll have Matt Henry back there as well with them.
Speaker 2: But you know there's a there's a bit of Test
Speaker 2: match cricket coming up for this New Zealand side. They've
Speaker 2: got one against Afghanistan, we've got three against India and
Speaker 2: three home here against England, so you know that's a
Speaker 2: real challenging situation for New Zealand as well.
Speaker 4: Brian Waddell Jeremy Cooney on the Front Foot True.
Speaker 2: To the Spirit of Cricket, A biography of Don Neely
Speaker 2: by Bill Francis his nineteenth book and it's an enjoyable
Speaker 2: addition to the Cricket Library, launched this week at Neely's
Speaker 2: favored ground at the Basin Reserve, where of course there's
Speaker 2: the Don Neely scoreboard. Bill Francis has written a number
Speaker 2: of books about former Black capspev and Congdon Mark Burgess,
Speaker 2: Bruce Taylor, Barry Sinclair and Juwey Dempster, to name a few,
Speaker 2: and we gathered at a launch this week where a
Speaker 2: number of players post to Neelie over the years, like
Speaker 2: Bruce Edgar attended a family friend of the Neely since
Speaker 2: his primary school days.
Speaker 7: It was over at Colberni Park and there was do
Speaker 7: O and Barry Sinkley together and I remember them so vividly,
Speaker 7: and I always track back to watching them play and
Speaker 7: how they went about their business and thinking, hmm, I'm
Speaker 7: learning just watching them, learning, just watching them.
Speaker 2: What did Doo teach you? What did he reveal to
Speaker 2: you in terms of your game and your abilities?
Speaker 7: I was lucky to be mentored by him and coached
Speaker 7: by him.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 7: I'd look back over the years and say who actually
Speaker 7: coached you? And I'd say Don, because we never had
Speaker 7: four more coaches in those days like you do today.
Speaker 7: And I'd look back and say, Don was one of
Speaker 7: my coaches for sure. And one of the things that
Speaker 7: we used to talk about was how could we do
Speaker 7: things differently, like a man with incredible values innovation, how
Speaker 7: can we do things differently and how can we actually
Speaker 7: outsmart the opposition? And if you look at his tenure
Speaker 7: as a selector when I was playing, I started in
Speaker 7: seventy eight for Museum. He was down here selecting for
Speaker 7: Wellington in the late seventies and then moved to the
Speaker 7: New Zealand team, I think around seventy nine, So seeing
Speaker 7: Don what he did for Wellings and then moving on
Speaker 7: to seeing what he did for the black Caps and
Speaker 7: being involved with him.
Speaker 2: And I always.
Speaker 7: Vividly remember on the old classical hand lines, the phone
Speaker 7: would ring. I'll pick it up, Bruce, Don I go,
Speaker 7: here we go if this is going to be an
Speaker 7: hour's conversation. And it was often on a Sunday night,
Speaker 7: quite late on Sunday night, and we would talk and
Speaker 7: we would talk about, you know, playing, how you're getting on.
Speaker 7: He would check in what have you lad, what have
Speaker 7: you been doing? And then he'd come up to you'd say,
Speaker 7: you're going up to Newtown Park tore doing some running,
Speaker 7: heavy ball, throwing weights with Hugh Lawrence. You know, how
Speaker 7: are you going to get fitter, faster, stronger, and how
Speaker 7: are you going to throw the ball faster?
Speaker 4: So it was always connected. And then the other thing
Speaker 4: about Don.
Speaker 7: We're playing at Eden Parking, Australia in ninety eighty two
Speaker 7: and I bat it for a while. It might have
Speaker 7: been about three days, maybe put ether people watching, But anyway,
Speaker 7: that's another story. How did you get I got one
Speaker 7: hundred and sixty? Oh yeah, So it was. It wasn't
Speaker 7: a slow fifty. It might have been a slow one
Speaker 7: hundred and fifty. But Don Wood he would always come
Speaker 7: in at each break and sit with me and just
Speaker 7: chat and we'd have a cup of tea. In those days,
Speaker 7: you had a cup of tea. You know, it was
Speaker 7: not nothing, no power aid like you get today. We're
Speaker 7: sit there and have a cup of tea and he
Speaker 7: just check in at each break. So there was lots
Speaker 7: of There was lunch breaks, there was an afternoon tea breaks,
Speaker 7: and then there was the next morning another another lunch break.
Speaker 7: But Don would be there and he would just sidle
Speaker 7: up next to me and just check him see how
Speaker 7: you go. He was so reassuring, and he would say, look,
Speaker 7: you're seeing the ball, well you're concentrating, well, focus, keep
Speaker 7: going and that's well, what do you expect from a guys?
Speaker 7: Just that give you that conference? And someone said to me,
Speaker 7: I was going back a few years. If there was
Speaker 7: someone that you would like to be, who would you
Speaker 7: like to be? And I said Don Nearly And they
Speaker 7: said why And I said, what he stands for in cricket,
Speaker 7: what he absolutely stands for.
Speaker 2: Richard Reid, son of j R. And imaginatively nicknamed Rido
Speaker 2: by his friends. Has some fond memories of do O.
Speaker 8: Well, he's the only person I ever knew who had
Speaker 8: whites designed by Rembrandt toorally elegant, never here out of place.
Speaker 8: I remember he when I first started playing club cricket,
Speaker 8: must have been mid late seventies. Do came back and
Speaker 8: was fillin and for Colbernie, and he was awful by then.
Speaker 5: He was, you know, he was.
Speaker 8: He managed to make batting for a very elegant man.
Speaker 8: He managed to.
Speaker 4: Make batting reasonably ugly.
Speaker 8: But in those days was I don't know I had,
Speaker 8: and he must have been in his early forties, and
Speaker 8: he would you you remember those tea towels that used
Speaker 8: to be a be around, and they had things like
Speaker 8: the draw shot, you know, with those curved bats.
Speaker 5: And I was at keeping for some reason, and do
Speaker 5: O wasu hopeless.
Speaker 8: And I remember saying to him, I said, when did
Speaker 8: earth did you learn to play that shot off a
Speaker 8: tea towel? And he just about wheezed himself at the crease,
Speaker 8: which was possible. But one of the one of the
Speaker 8: things I always remember about do because it's been miss
Speaker 8: it's been just glossed over just briefly in this setting
Speaker 8: is that he lived in Auckland for a while, so
Speaker 8: it was a little known fact pat in it.
Speaker 5: And he played for north Shore, which was my club.
Speaker 8: When I lived in Auckland. And in nineteen eighty eight,
Speaker 8: March nineteen eighty eight, this is before cell phones, remember,
Speaker 8: no such thing as fax machines yet, and we had
Speaker 8: just won the championship on the last day and I
Speaker 8: rushed home to get changed and probably get some money
Speaker 8: and to go.
Speaker 5: Out to celebrate.
Speaker 8: The phone ring it was do O and I thought,
Speaker 8: it's so nice of you to ring Deo because if
Speaker 8: you congratulate on winning, on winning the championship, it's.
Speaker 5: Just fantastic, so thoughtful. He said, I'm.
Speaker 8: Ringing to tell you need to be in theneed and
Speaker 8: on Tuesday you're playing against England. Okay, we shouldn't stop
Speaker 8: me going out on the seturday.
Speaker 2: Night and John mister Morrison shared his memories as well. Yeah, yeah, no,
Speaker 2: do O.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 9: He was captain when I first came out of school
Speaker 9: to the Lincoln and he gave me a hard time. Actually,
Speaker 9: he said, how the hell do you ever get anyone out?
Speaker 9: I said, well, it's like taking candy from a baby,
Speaker 9: do you. And he said, you don't do anything with
Speaker 9: the balls, said, that's why they get out.
Speaker 2: They think I'm going to.
Speaker 9: Anyway, he took the piss constantly at practice here. We
Speaker 9: used to go over to the Rows and Crown for
Speaker 9: a drink afterwards, which probably spoiled everything we've done over here.
Speaker 9: And finally he was caught. He said, you're a mystery
Speaker 9: bloody bowler. And he said, I don't know how you
Speaker 9: get a wicket anyway. I said, well, let's put ten
Speaker 9: bucks in the middle of the table. Whoever gets the
Speaker 9: most wickets on Club Creek in Club Cricket on Saturday
Speaker 9: takes the polls. And I think the bill's written about this,
Speaker 9: and you want to have to buy the book to
Speaker 9: find out the answer. Anyway, I got four for none.
Speaker 9: It's like taking care of Crawy.
Speaker 2: Of course.
Speaker 9: We did have an easy game, but most of them
Speaker 9: were caught on the boundary. But four of us four
Speaker 9: wickets for no runs. And of course I was a
Speaker 9: pain in the ars of practice on Tuesday. Thank you
Speaker 9: lines one, Thank you ball boys, Thank you do o,
Speaker 9: he said, John, believe it. I mean he made some
Speaker 9: mistakes as a selector, because I got jumped a couple
Speaker 9: of times to disgrace. Yeah, just when I was on
Speaker 9: form as well, I said to do none. I know
Speaker 9: I was bowling me. I didn't even get a bowl
Speaker 9: when do Over was catching. And of course so that
Speaker 9: when Bruceie got one hundred and sixty, no one mentions
Speaker 9: that I bowled thirty five overs in a row won
Speaker 9: the bloody game for us, he gets all the credit.
Speaker 2: John Morrison full of laughs as ever, thirty five overs,
Speaker 2: he claimed. I thought, well, who would bowl Morrison thirty
Speaker 2: five overs?
Speaker 5: Jerry?
Speaker 2: Then I looked up the score and he did. He
Speaker 2: bowled thirty five overs and got two wickets.
Speaker 3: He obviously put a lot of effort and didn't he
Speaker 3: because he still remembers it today.
Speaker 6: I do.
Speaker 3: I was playing that match and I do remember him.
Speaker 3: And he got a couple of wickets too. I think
Speaker 3: he got one over the top of the keeper and
Speaker 3: was caught by a sort of a short long stop.
Speaker 4: Really, but he was he could, he could do a job.
Speaker 3: He was a nice and tidy line and the picture
Speaker 3: was just holding up a bit. So yeah, No, mystery
Speaker 3: was always good fun, really good team man, especially when
Speaker 3: times were a bit hard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I think, like you very close to d o'neally.
Speaker 2: I mean he had he had a lot of good
Speaker 2: mates who spent a lot of time talking crickly. Of
Speaker 2: course you used to stay with him when you came
Speaker 2: to Wellington for test matches.
Speaker 3: Yeah, lovely man, love you know, he and Patty an
Speaker 3: terrific people to go and start with. I was very
Speaker 3: lucky and enjoyed, always enjoyed Don's He had a gentle humor,
Speaker 3: loved talking obviously about cricket. Just a cricket man through
Speaker 3: and through. You know, you think of that. I don't
Speaker 3: know if I go for a month, I always looking
Speaker 3: up and diving into men in white. What a Bible
Speaker 3: letters for all of us? Really, I'm sure you're the
Speaker 3: same all those cricket annuals that he did right through
Speaker 3: the seventies, at the end of every year out she'd come.
Speaker 3: And then he widened his scope, didn't He went to
Speaker 3: the Basin. He wrote all about the Basin and the
Speaker 3: different things that had gone on there. You said, a
Speaker 3: place that he loved, Yeah, sort of his second home
Speaker 3: away from home, wasn't it. And then the summer game.
Speaker 3: I mean he wrote, I mean he was a man
Speaker 3: who looked forwards because he was he was always thinking
Speaker 3: about what was next in the game and learning from
Speaker 3: other sports. I remember the time he convinced Brian cedar
Speaker 3: Wall because of his he was bowling a few no
Speaker 3: balls that he would he would suggest, just like watching
Speaker 3: someone with a javelin or something, or a run up
Speaker 3: for the hop, step and jump, he would say, look,
Speaker 3: measure their run ups. Why don't we do that? And
Speaker 3: so Seeds carried this rope around for a whole season
Speaker 3: in his cricket offfen and he had uncoil it and
Speaker 3: out he'd go. They do it all nowadays it's done
Speaker 3: for the bowlders, but he did it back then, you know,
Speaker 3: and he was the first one to do that. So
Speaker 3: he looked forwards always in games. But he also, obviously
Speaker 3: because of all the books and things, he looked backwards.
Speaker 3: And he was a historian as well. But I can
Speaker 3: kind of remember a couple of things looking forward when
Speaker 3: I mentioned that, how he prepared me for facing Gharana
Speaker 3: in nineteen eighty five going to the West Indies. He
Speaker 3: took me down to Colburni Cricket Ground and there's a
Speaker 3: little area where all you could sit on a few
Speaker 3: little brick steps and so on near the road end.
Speaker 3: And as you're going from the airport, and he took
Speaker 3: his moa down and we sort of just we pushed moa.
Speaker 3: How we got into the outfield and made a little
Speaker 3: sort of prepared pitch that was only about sort of
Speaker 3: ten ten meters long, put a net up. He had
Speaker 3: to grabbed a net, and then he climbed up the
Speaker 3: steps about three steps, because he wasn't a tall man,
Speaker 3: and so he was about the height of Joel Garner.
Speaker 4: And then he threw the ball.
Speaker 3: And he got some stumps that round in the net,
Speaker 3: and I padded up, got all my helmet on and things,
Speaker 3: and he then threw the ball as hard as he
Speaker 3: could at me. Some of them were on the full,
Speaker 3: some of them were short, so it didn't the length
Speaker 3: to prepare me for the optics of just looking up
Speaker 3: higher than.
Speaker 4: You normally do.
Speaker 3: And he was preparing me for just doing that, of
Speaker 3: getting used to looking up at a different height. And
Speaker 3: that's the sort of level he used to used to
Speaker 3: think about clearly those things.
Speaker 4: He was a lovely man.
Speaker 3: And I'm so pleased the book, you know, has been
Speaker 3: written about him.
Speaker 2: Bill Francis book on Nearly True to the Spirit of Cricket,
Speaker 2: And of course he used a lot of help from
Speaker 2: players who've worked and played under Don Neely right through
Speaker 2: the time of his involvement in cricket, and he's been
Speaker 2: certainly a great contributor to the game and remembered in
Speaker 2: this book True to the Spirit of Cricket. I'm going
Speaker 2: to finish off on an interesting note. I don't know
Speaker 2: whether you played in this game, mostly the game in
Speaker 2: Wellington where Bert Vance got smacked around. And I see
Speaker 2: where Ollie Robinson was carted for forty three off one
Speaker 2: over in a county game forty three runs.
Speaker 5: I did see that, and yes I was there when
Speaker 5: Bert went for plenty.
Speaker 3: I do remember where were you fielding Moose? Were you
Speaker 3: at third slip?
Speaker 5: I always liked grazing down and down at third man.
Speaker 5: As you know, Jerry's keeping as far away as possible.
Speaker 2: Yeah, how do you how do you explain forty three runs?
Speaker 2: I mean, you can understand the Bert Vart situation that
Speaker 2: that's easily explained, but forty three runs off and over
Speaker 2: and they cost nobles cost two rather than one in
Speaker 2: County cricket, so I'm told. So you know it's it's
Speaker 2: an interesting situation. I mean I've spoken to Jerry about
Speaker 2: this before and he never went for forty three when
Speaker 2: he was bowling.
Speaker 5: Because he was a Kenny and wiley, wiley man and
Speaker 5: bold with beautiful gile.
Speaker 3: What can I say, not interrupting any of you, the
Speaker 3: sping of gile.
Speaker 5: I see Jimmy Anderson got seven wickets against Knots the
Speaker 5: other day. So for a bloke is what is he
Speaker 5: fifty five or something? I don't know, he's nearly jury's pension.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and did a good job for a Worcestershire in
Speaker 2: a game and he played two lots of four and
Speaker 2: they won a game against the Durham So a good
Speaker 2: effort from him. He's having an interesting season playing in
Speaker 2: the county cricket for Worcestershire. Guys, thanks very much for
Speaker 2: joining us, Peter Holland who has taken special time out
Speaker 2: to join us, and I'm sure we will have him
Speaker 2: back again. You'll be free to offer some words of
Speaker 2: wisdom most in the near future, I.
Speaker 5: Hope, so certainly want to look forward to it. Can
Speaker 5: I just can I just make a little quick point.
Speaker 5: I've been in the Netherlands recently to bid farewell to
Speaker 5: to a lovely cricket eating man, Pim Kurt, who passed
Speaker 5: away on the weekend, who I first met when I
Speaker 5: went over there to play for bloom and Dale. He
Speaker 5: is the essence of what cricket is about. Played cricket
Speaker 5: for many, many years, good spirited, played it for all
Speaker 5: the right reasons. And that's why we love the game.
Speaker 5: And vallet Pim, as they say, I just want to
Speaker 5: acknowledge that that's why we love it.
Speaker 4: Yep, yeah, well said Most.
Speaker 2: Yeah, thanks to you, Jimmy. We'll talk again next week.
Speaker 4: Yep.
Speaker 3: No worries once. Yeah, good, good to see you.
Speaker 5: Most.
Speaker 3: You're looking good boy. And and and you've mentioned now
Speaker 3: you're you know you're obviously traveling around the world in Netherlands.
Speaker 3: And did you go to England.
Speaker 4: I suppose you.
Speaker 5: Did, Yes, I did, Okay All.
Speaker 4: Summer for more from News Talk, said b.
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