WEBVTT - Local government shake-up explained: Rate caps, mayors board and services 0:00:05.440 --> 0:00:05.600 Yea. 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:08.880 I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:11.480 daily podcast presented by the New. 0:00:11.440 --> 0:00:12.720 Zealand Herald. 0:00:16.079 --> 0:00:21.599 Regional Territorial Unitary Wards and Boards. Local government in New 0:00:21.720 --> 0:00:25.599 Zealand is made up of seventy eight different councils that 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:30.720 make the decisions we encounter daily the Rhodes Air, rubbish 0:00:30.800 --> 0:00:36.479 waters environment. It's all local government. So why has central 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:40.199 government announced a need for change and why has the 0:00:40.240 --> 0:00:43.519 Prime Minister himself implored councils to. 0:00:43.760 --> 0:00:46.279 Quote stop doing dumb stuff. 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:49.879 Today On the front page of Victoria. University of Wellington, 0:00:49.920 --> 0:00:53.519 Associate Professor in Politics, Lara Grieves is with us to 0:00:53.600 --> 0:00:55.960 take us through what this all means and what the 0:00:56.000 --> 0:01:03.440 future could hold for our local councils. So Laura, let's 0:01:03.800 --> 0:01:06.640 talk first about the rates cap. So that's the annual 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:10.640 rates increases would be limited to between two and four percent. 0:01:10.840 --> 0:01:13.920 Consultation has begun and they want the laws passed through 0:01:14.360 --> 0:01:16.760 the House by the start of twenty twenty seven in 0:01:16.760 --> 0:01:18.040 place by twenty twenty nine. 0:01:18.080 --> 0:01:19.400 Now, on one hand. 0:01:19.600 --> 0:01:22.920 Yay lower rates, right, the days of double digits would 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.160 be over, whether permitting. Of course, there will be exemptions 0:01:26.160 --> 0:01:29.120 for things like natural disasters and things like that. But 0:01:29.200 --> 0:01:32.120 on the other hand, there are concerns that the cuts 0:01:32.640 --> 0:01:36.600 will mean cuts to basic services. And I wanted to 0:01:36.640 --> 0:01:38.760 ask you, is it a myth that councils spend a 0:01:38.760 --> 0:01:40.600 lot of money on stupid stuff. 0:01:40.840 --> 0:01:42.840 That's a hard one, right, because on a day to 0:01:42.920 --> 0:01:46.480 day basis, everyone's filling the pinch, everyone's going to the supermarket, 0:01:46.560 --> 0:01:49.480 and it's so expensive and people are kind of like 0:01:49.560 --> 0:01:51.480 living their lives, trying to have a picture al rent 0:01:51.520 --> 0:01:53.760 and all of those bits and pieces. So if they 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.000 are a homeowner and they get that rates bill and 0:01:56.080 --> 0:01:59.400 they hear about those rates increases, they kind of feel, 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:02.120 I don't know, mixed feelings around, well, why can't the 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:04.920 council manage money better? I have to manage my budget better. 0:02:05.360 --> 0:02:07.440 And that's a lot a lot of people are feeling 0:02:07.440 --> 0:02:09.480 on a day to day basis, And of course, if 0:02:09.919 --> 0:02:11.880 you own a house, you know there's an argument that 0:02:11.960 --> 0:02:15.320 you would pass those rates increases onto renters as well. 0:02:15.360 --> 0:02:17.519 So it affects kind of everyone, and a lot of 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:20.840 people are quite concerned about. Yeah, there's double digit rates increases, 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:24.400 like you said, However, on a day to day basis, 0:02:24.440 --> 0:02:26.480 the council does fund a lot of good things that 0:02:26.600 --> 0:02:29.239 kind of make our communities communities a lot of good 0:02:29.240 --> 0:02:32.359 things that we use a lot. I mean, as an academic, 0:02:32.400 --> 0:02:36.079 I use the libraries a lot. But that's one thing. 0:02:36.120 --> 0:02:38.200 But people go and give books to their kids. You know. 0:02:38.240 --> 0:02:41.280 There's the kind of rubbish delivery kind of pretty important. 0:02:41.560 --> 0:02:42.840 You know, if you've ever been to a country that 0:02:42.840 --> 0:02:46.120 doesn't have those sorts of services, very important something we need. 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:50.000 There's also the things around the water infrastructure. Wellington's problems 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:54.120 have really highlighted that, different things around transport and roading, 0:02:54.200 --> 0:02:57.000 and I'll just all sorts of bits and pieces there 0:02:57.280 --> 0:02:59.000 that we don't really think about on a day to 0:02:59.040 --> 0:03:03.120 day basis, just kind of take advannadov in living our lives. 0:03:03.200 --> 0:03:06.640 So this then becomes a bit of an ashure around. Okay, 0:03:06.680 --> 0:03:09.160 so if council has less money to be able to 0:03:09.240 --> 0:03:12.000 fund these things and they have to prioritize different bits 0:03:12.040 --> 0:03:14.320 and pieces, it may mean that we end up in 0:03:14.360 --> 0:03:16.880 more of say like a user pay system or something 0:03:16.880 --> 0:03:19.079 along those lines, which then that becomes a bit of 0:03:19.080 --> 0:03:21.320 a cultural issue for New Zealanders who are used to 0:03:21.360 --> 0:03:24.800 say free or cheap public pools or library services and 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:29.519 bits and pieces like that. Ultimately, the majority at polling shows, 0:03:29.520 --> 0:03:31.639 and this was put it on the Herald, that seventy 0:03:31.639 --> 0:03:36.160 five percent of people support these rates caps increase caps. 0:03:37.160 --> 0:03:39.080 A lot of those questions comes down to how you 0:03:39.120 --> 0:03:41.120 ask the question though, that's what a lot of political 0:03:41.120 --> 0:03:43.320 science that should say. So if I say, do you 0:03:43.360 --> 0:03:46.520 want lower taxes or lower rates? People go yes. But 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:48.760 then if I say, if that means that you have 0:03:48.880 --> 0:03:50.960 to pay every time you go to the library or 0:03:51.560 --> 0:03:54.240 have to pay for services through some other kind of 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:57.440 levee or tax, would you want that? People go no. 0:03:57.760 --> 0:04:00.800 So it's it's one of those kind of hardolitical issues 0:04:00.840 --> 0:04:04.480 that people have a gut reaction on, but when they 0:04:04.480 --> 0:04:06.640 look into it more, their opinion might change. 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.280 Yeah, I see that both Labor and the Greens oppose 0:04:09.520 --> 0:04:12.840 the rate's cap and that's despite that polling. Like you said, 0:04:13.000 --> 0:04:16.240 seventy five percent of kiwis support it. But again the 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:18.680 questioning around that we'd have to look at that. But 0:04:18.960 --> 0:04:23.120 I imagine that this would be a move that will bode 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:27.839 well for national calm election time, because they've not only 0:04:27.920 --> 0:04:31.200 now got your soft on crime, but they've got the 0:04:31.800 --> 0:04:34.919 you want people to pay more rates or something, you 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.039 know what I mean? Like, so, is this quite a 0:04:37.080 --> 0:04:39.320 clever tactic going into twenty twenty six? 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:41.359 We have to think about what the big issues are 0:04:41.440 --> 0:04:43.400 for people, right, and so the cost of living or 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:46.960 the economy or something around affordability day to day is 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:49.239 a big issue for New Zealand. Isn't a big issue 0:04:49.279 --> 0:04:52.040 in polling, like, that's what they consistently say, So this 0:04:52.160 --> 0:04:54.760 kind of would on the surface look like it would 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:56.800 help to alleviate that for people. So that might be 0:04:56.839 --> 0:05:01.400 a big tech for voters. Kind of overall, we don't 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:03.559 see in a lot of the sort of voting data 0:05:03.680 --> 0:05:05.679 and a lot of the political science literature that people 0:05:05.720 --> 0:05:08.520 are local government voters like that's not a big issue 0:05:08.680 --> 0:05:11.040 high up on their thing. But it might be that 0:05:11.080 --> 0:05:14.080 this kind of makes it feel to people like that 0:05:14.360 --> 0:05:16.600 costs will come under control, So it gives them that 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:18.599 greater sense of control and kind of hope for the 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:22.320 future around this. Again, whether that's an actual you know, 0:05:22.400 --> 0:05:25.240 economic reality or fact or not, that's that's kind of 0:05:25.839 --> 0:05:28.160 will come out in the wash, so to speak. So 0:05:28.200 --> 0:05:30.560 that I guess part of that broader conversation of does 0:05:30.560 --> 0:05:33.320 it look like that, you know, national will be tough 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:36.080 on spending like they're tough, say they're tough on crime. 0:05:36.600 --> 0:05:38.880 It's part of that broader package or package of ideas 0:05:38.880 --> 0:05:41.839 that they'll be going to the election on. And yeah, 0:05:41.880 --> 0:05:44.719 I think that that will contribute to that discourse and 0:05:45.040 --> 0:05:47.839 bits and pieces. We know that people generally, you know, 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:49.960 if you look at the groups of society that people 0:05:50.000 --> 0:05:53.160 don't tend to support on a day to day basis, 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.600 you know it's the council and other politicians and normally 0:05:56.640 --> 0:06:00.120 not high out the kind of trust ranking. So I 0:06:00.120 --> 0:06:03.440 think that local government and local government spending is a 0:06:03.520 --> 0:06:08.160 kind of sensible rhetorical, discursive, kind of target or group 0:06:08.200 --> 0:06:10.799 that you could talk about in negative ways that won't 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:12.800 get a lot of pushback, but will help to kind 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:16.240 of contribute to this overall package of policies or brand 0:06:16.320 --> 0:06:19.760 that as a party national will get tough on things 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:21.279 like spending and waste for spending. 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:30.920 Are you frustrated off the performance of your local council, Well, 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:33.719 the good news is that changes come out and the 0:06:33.760 --> 0:06:36.480 government is acting. We think local government has lost its way, 0:06:36.520 --> 0:06:37.880 it's lost its social license. 0:06:37.960 --> 0:06:39.960 This is all about thripping cost out. 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:44.320 Of the system, reducing duplication, making it more organizationally efficient 0:06:44.360 --> 0:06:46.240 and ultimately getting better value. 0:06:46.000 --> 0:06:48.960 For money for rate payers. But here's the take home point. 0:06:49.240 --> 0:06:52.480 Something's got to change because the status bob is not acceptable. 0:06:54.880 --> 0:06:58.560 Yeah. So, at the same time, IRMA reform minister Chris 0:06:58.600 --> 0:07:02.600 Bishop has described potential changes to local authorities. He says 0:07:02.600 --> 0:07:06.320 it's the most significant changes potentially to local government since 0:07:06.480 --> 0:07:10.560 nineteen eighty nine. Tell me about these ideas. What ideas 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:11.920 does he have for local government? 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:14.880 Well, what we've seen over the years is that you know, 0:07:14.920 --> 0:07:17.480 local government was established and we've just kind of gone 0:07:17.520 --> 0:07:20.800 along long all through the eighties, nineties, two thousands and 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:24.560 so on. So this kind of local government structure was created. 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:27.120 It's evolved in little bits and pieces over time, but 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:30.400 there haven't been that substantive structural change. I have to 0:07:30.440 --> 0:07:32.640 say over the past sort of fifteen years. My career 0:07:32.720 --> 0:07:35.880 in politics political science is that we often do wring 0:07:35.920 --> 0:07:38.280 our hands over local government and kind of go, oh, 0:07:38.400 --> 0:07:41.239 something needs to change. There was a local government review 0:07:41.240 --> 0:07:43.640 in twenty twenty three that had a bunch of recommendations. 0:07:44.200 --> 0:07:46.520 Every time we have local government elections. I spent a 0:07:46.560 --> 0:07:48.720 lot of time talking about turnout being love and the 0:07:48.760 --> 0:07:51.600 issues around turnout. So we know that structurally there are 0:07:51.600 --> 0:07:56.000 some issues with local government. And one of the kind 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:59.200 of debates in terms of local government is is it 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:02.800 too big? Is it too complicated? Is it too bureaucratic? 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:06.080 And if you're of a party on the right, you're 0:08:06.120 --> 0:08:08.480 generally going to say yes. You know, the Taxpayers Union 0:08:08.520 --> 0:08:13.440 have been campaigning for the reduced rates, the less spending, 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:19.240 a less bureaucratic structure. ACTS National tend to campaign on 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:21.560 this as well and tend to kind of raise these ideas. 0:08:21.800 --> 0:08:25.480 It was the ACT party that amalgamated. They take credit 0:08:25.560 --> 0:08:29.520 for amalgamating the Auckland councils as well. I remember they're 0:08:29.520 --> 0:08:31.440 all the different kind of North Shore Council, all of those, 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.960 but amalgamated and twenty ten as a result of some 0:08:35.040 --> 0:08:37.520 of their work. So this has been a long kind 0:08:37.520 --> 0:08:40.000 of running issue of can you kind of cut truck 0:08:40.040 --> 0:08:43.520 and change something in local government. The government has proposed 0:08:43.559 --> 0:08:47.000 removing the eleven regional councils and instead kind of creating 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:50.280 these committees to oversee that work. A lot of the 0:08:50.280 --> 0:08:53.960 regional council workers around resource management like land news planning 0:08:54.120 --> 0:08:57.880 and environmental water type matters. All of those bits and pieces, 0:08:58.000 --> 0:09:01.400 so basically try to make changes to that system to 0:09:01.400 --> 0:09:05.440 remove that bureaucracy. What we have seen when local government 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:09.160 has changed, for example around the supercity, is that you 0:09:09.240 --> 0:09:12.080 don't end up like there's still those roles still have 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:15.360 to exist in some way. There's still often other people 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:17.680 that come in to do the job. You couldn't drop 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:20.559 a lot of those functions. And the other thing within 0:09:20.640 --> 0:09:22.280 that we're still to kind of stare is what happens 0:09:22.320 --> 0:09:25.440 around citivity and kapu and EWA and local government in 0:09:25.440 --> 0:09:29.040 that space. So yeah, it's really overall an argument of 0:09:29.160 --> 0:09:31.679 do you want to kind of maintain the current level 0:09:31.720 --> 0:09:34.120 of government in the structure or do you want to 0:09:34.480 --> 0:09:37.160 cut some of it away. And we've seen this government's 0:09:37.200 --> 0:09:41.120 general policy agenda has been to reduce bits and pieces 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:45.160 in the sort of policy public sector governance structures, and 0:09:45.240 --> 0:09:48.400 so this kind of smaller government, reducing some of the 0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:51.240 levels of local council makes a lot of sense in 0:09:51.320 --> 0:09:53.000 terms of their overall direction as a government. 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:55.800 Because a lot of people say what would be able 0:09:55.880 --> 0:09:58.480 to say the name of the mayor right where they live. 0:09:58.600 --> 0:10:02.600 A smaller group probably know their local counselor maybe because 0:10:02.640 --> 0:10:05.920 you know, forty percent turnout for local ellections. A few 0:10:05.960 --> 0:10:09.000 people out there must know their local counselors, but you'd 0:10:09.000 --> 0:10:12.840 be hard pressed to know who your regional counselor is, 0:10:13.080 --> 0:10:16.600 or who the CEO of your regional council is or something. 0:10:16.640 --> 0:10:19.480 For example, Hey, so there does seem to be too 0:10:19.520 --> 0:10:22.079 many cooks in the kitchen in that respect. But you're 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:24.520 saying if somebody is looking after I don't know, like 0:10:24.559 --> 0:10:28.160 E can for example, Environment Canterbury. They look out for 0:10:29.800 --> 0:10:32.240 all of the wetlands and they've got, you know, these 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:37.640 massive projects about natural resources and things like that that'll 0:10:37.640 --> 0:10:40.000 just have to be amalgamated into the christ Church City 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:40.959 Council presumably. 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:43.959 Yeah, so that that's kind of the broad direction of 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.720 travel there. I think that you don't really think about 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:52.040 local government until something goes wrong, you know, or like 0:10:52.160 --> 0:10:54.320 you need to think about local government. And I would 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:58.120 say different stakeholder groups think about local government a lot more. 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:00.920 Say you're in a sports clubs than you're on the 0:11:00.920 --> 0:11:02.800 committee of that sports club. We're doing some kind of 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:05.040 volunteer work. I think that that's where you would think 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:08.520 more about your local government and the functions there. Or Yeah, 0:11:08.559 --> 0:11:11.160 if they do something that really irks you, really annoys you. 0:11:11.280 --> 0:11:13.480 I think that that's where you think about local government, 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:17.679 because they sure do have low levels of voted turnout, 0:11:17.800 --> 0:11:21.200 and generally there's a low level of awareness or knowledge about, 0:11:21.480 --> 0:11:23.520 you know, what they do on a day to day, 0:11:23.520 --> 0:11:26.079 week to week, month to month basis. So there's that 0:11:26.080 --> 0:11:28.600 that problem, and that that problem has been one that 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.520 has been persisting for decades. Is what exactly to do 0:11:31.640 --> 0:11:34.640 structurally about local government to make sure it's a sufficient 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:36.560 as possible and that it's actually fulfilling the needs of 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:39.400 the community and the community cares enough to turn out 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:43.520 to vote. Do these reforms kind of help help to 0:11:43.559 --> 0:11:46.400 fix some of that potentially? I mean, we will see 0:11:46.400 --> 0:11:49.200 what happens. I mean, if if it goes into gets 0:11:49.400 --> 0:11:52.319 gets in and gets put in place and time and 0:11:52.679 --> 0:11:56.560 with the election and puts and pieces there. But I mean, 0:11:56.600 --> 0:11:58.880 I think a big frustration to some of us who've 0:11:58.960 --> 0:12:02.000 kind of taught on these issues is, yeah, the layers 0:12:02.080 --> 0:12:05.000 of publication and the lack of kind of clarity of 0:12:05.040 --> 0:12:07.800 what it is that everyone does on a day to 0:12:07.840 --> 0:12:10.640 day basis, and it's still opaque for students who don't 0:12:10.679 --> 0:12:13.080 know that little alone you kind of go on the 0:12:13.080 --> 0:12:18.040 street kind of person, the average vita. So it's a 0:12:18.040 --> 0:12:21.120 big problem, and I'm not sure that the reforms that 0:12:21.679 --> 0:12:25.600 have been proposed will fix that big, broad structural problem. 0:12:25.679 --> 0:12:29.240 But it's like someone's doing something finally in local government, 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:30.920 which hasn't always been the case. 0:12:31.440 --> 0:12:33.319 Yeah, like even the fact that we're starting to kind 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:35.400 of talk about it again, I suppose, But do you 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:39.280 reckon that those suggestions for reform are actually a bit light, 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:44.080 Like could we see, for example, an amalgamation of councils 0:12:44.080 --> 0:12:44.760 into one. 0:12:44.800 --> 0:12:46.079 Like the Auckland super City. 0:12:46.160 --> 0:12:48.440 So I was looking at this map of all of 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:51.880 the regional councils and you know, the district councils, the 0:12:51.920 --> 0:12:56.240 local boards, etc. Why Cato region has like ten district 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.320 councils or something like that. And I remember we were 0:12:59.360 --> 0:13:03.640 down there speeding to the Waititomo mayor, and even he 0:13:03.760 --> 0:13:06.640 mentioned to us that maybe, you know, there could be 0:13:06.720 --> 0:13:11.600 some amalgamation of those smaller councils, especially as well, because 0:13:11.600 --> 0:13:14.040 though some of those councilors are only paid and I say, 0:13:14.040 --> 0:13:17.720 only paid twenty to fifty k a year compared to 0:13:17.720 --> 0:13:20.280 the bigger councils like Auckland, You've got over one hundred 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.160 k year for some of those counselors. 0:13:22.200 --> 0:13:23.480 So is it time to have. 0:13:23.440 --> 0:13:27.200 A much bigger, harsher conversation than the one we're even 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:27.839 having now? 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:30.080 Well, what I would say is that there are various 0:13:30.080 --> 0:13:33.600 reviews that I've seen haven't necessarily proposed a structure. They've 0:13:33.600 --> 0:13:36.960 proposed principles or ideas or values, but not necessarily a 0:13:37.000 --> 0:13:40.040 structure of let's sort it out. This is where I 0:13:40.040 --> 0:13:42.480 would like to see something like some citizens assemblies or 0:13:42.520 --> 0:13:45.720 some deliberative democracy where you randomly select one hundred people 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:48.280 from whatever town, bring them together and get them to 0:13:48.320 --> 0:13:51.200 discuss these issues and try to figure out what actually 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:54.480 a good kind of system with a good mandate looks like. 0:13:54.600 --> 0:13:57.120 And local government, I mean a lot to do. Any 0:13:57.160 --> 0:14:01.439 of that would mean investing time, resources, reporting another review 0:14:01.559 --> 0:14:03.960 a bunch of experts, and it would just be another one, 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:07.199 and then ultimately would that report just end up filed 0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:10.760 on some minister's desk. But I think that ultimately a 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.800 lot of the local government structures were set up more 0:14:13.800 --> 0:14:16.120 than a century ago, you know the reality, Yeah, the 0:14:16.160 --> 0:14:18.600 way like I'm thinking back to the borough councils and 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.120 all of those bits and pieces, And it's like governments, 0:14:22.200 --> 0:14:25.800 I think generally and not making those big structural changes 0:14:25.880 --> 0:14:28.360 in a lot of areas of our lives, right like 0:14:28.600 --> 0:14:31.400 you know, the economy, but and pieces. So I don't 0:14:31.400 --> 0:14:34.800 necessarily think that we can expectment some government to actually 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.280 do it, actually sit down and go, how is this 0:14:37.440 --> 0:14:40.120 going to be organized? What is an efficient their way 0:14:41.520 --> 0:14:44.320 in the way that say, you know, electorates are organized 0:14:44.360 --> 0:14:47.400 where you have say seventy thousand people per electorate, and 0:14:47.440 --> 0:14:50.160 that's an electorate, that's a geographic area, and it's drawn 0:14:50.200 --> 0:14:53.320 a certain way. So I think ultimately it would be 0:14:53.320 --> 0:14:56.040 great if someone did just like go, okay, we're going 0:14:56.120 --> 0:14:57.640 to take a global view, We're going to sort this 0:14:57.720 --> 0:14:59.880 out once and sort this out with some kind of 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:02.680 for US party mandate and get it sorted into the future. 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:06.520 That would be ideal, But I can't see us doing 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:08.640 that the way that our current politics are set out. 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.080 I mean, it would be a great service if labor 0:15:11.080 --> 0:15:13.760 and national will get together and sort it out for 0:15:13.800 --> 0:15:16.440 the decades to come, but instead we will have all 0:15:16.440 --> 0:15:18.520 of these kind of I'm sure it's kind of amusing 0:15:18.880 --> 0:15:24.160 spending decisions and these like local government situations in the future. 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:26.200 And I imagine that in ten years time we'll probably 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:27.680 be sitting here having the same conversation. 0:15:34.000 --> 0:15:36.240 You know, stop doing dumb stuff. You know, did you 0:15:36.320 --> 0:15:39.040 need to spend two million dollars here in Wellington on a. 0:15:38.800 --> 0:15:39.640 Public toilet block? 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:45.840 No money on Joda bars and you know, rather than 0:15:45.880 --> 0:15:48.560 actually fixing roads. So I mean, this is going to 0:15:48.600 --> 0:15:51.440 force you know, when you've got scarcity, you know, as 0:15:51.440 --> 0:15:53.480 we find the central government having inherited the mess we 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:55.960 got from the labor government. You know, when you're actually 0:15:55.960 --> 0:15:58.680 paying a nine billion dollar interest bill and that's four 0:15:58.760 --> 0:16:00.600 or five teen hospitals you can't all each and every 0:16:00.680 --> 0:16:02.000 year because of that in trust bill. 0:16:02.280 --> 0:16:02.840 Thank you later. 0:16:05.160 --> 0:16:08.600 Yeah, And even the rhetoric between central government and local 0:16:08.640 --> 0:16:10.880 government as well is pretty harsh. Hey, Like you've got 0:16:10.880 --> 0:16:14.680 the Prime Minister out here saying, you know, councils need 0:16:14.720 --> 0:16:18.120 to stop doing dumb stuff. It's like, well, that doesn't 0:16:18.160 --> 0:16:22.000 instill too much hope and too much pride in our 0:16:22.080 --> 0:16:25.200 local government, does it. And I mean, and you've also 0:16:25.320 --> 0:16:29.120 got situations around the country as well where the government 0:16:29.160 --> 0:16:32.840 has had to step in and bring in the Commissioner, etc. 0:16:33.280 --> 0:16:37.240 But I kind of guess like if we fixed quote 0:16:37.320 --> 0:16:42.360 unquote the situation as a whole. You would have better 0:16:42.360 --> 0:16:47.760 people coming forward to become a local counselor, you'd have 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:52.440 better ideas around the table, and more transparency and the 0:16:52.480 --> 0:16:53.600 public actually. 0:16:53.280 --> 0:16:57.479 Knowing what all of these people do. Thus, more people. 0:16:57.440 --> 0:16:59.480 Are going out to vote because people probably don't realize 0:16:59.520 --> 0:17:02.760 as soon as you step outside of your door, you've 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:06.360 encountered probably like five things that local government has done 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:06.920 for you. 0:17:07.560 --> 0:17:12.080 Yeah. Yeah, generally this is a big issue, and I'm 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:14.879 looking forward to seeing what changes, you know, the changes 0:17:14.920 --> 0:17:19.520 to the NCAA and the Civics and citizenship type curriculum changes. 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:23.040 Hopefully that builds in some kind of local government educational 0:17:23.119 --> 0:17:25.800 knowledge into that. The other thing, of course, is that 0:17:25.840 --> 0:17:28.360 for local government, a lot of the people aren't particularly 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:30.359 well paid. It's like a part time job for them. 0:17:31.040 --> 0:17:33.119 And of course we've seen that broader context of like 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:36.560 violent freaks towards women running in local government. So if 0:17:36.560 --> 0:17:39.080 you kind of combine all of these contexts together, you 0:17:39.080 --> 0:17:41.920 can see why someone wouldn't want to stand for local government. 0:17:42.000 --> 0:17:44.000 You know, the first that like not knowledge about what 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:47.200 they do, feeling undervalued by central government, and then this 0:17:47.400 --> 0:17:49.639 kind of context and bits and pieces that we're hearing, 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:52.920 and yeah, people not even turning up to vote. So 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:55.160 I mean, if you if you set up a system 0:17:55.520 --> 0:17:57.600 like that, who are you going to get that's going 0:17:57.640 --> 0:17:59.760 to run and who are you going to get around 0:17:59.760 --> 0:18:03.359 those decision making governance tables. So I think it's just 0:18:03.400 --> 0:18:05.240 one of those things where we keep wringing our hands 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.320 thinking on what could it look like, what could a 0:18:07.320 --> 0:18:10.240 good future model be. We'd also need to figure out 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.600 what to do with Malori representation because one of the 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:14.840 big things on the last year that's been in the 0:18:14.880 --> 0:18:18.159 media around local government, of course, has been the Mali 0:18:18.320 --> 0:18:22.560 Woods referendums. So there's a few issues to sort out there. 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.840 But again it's like I feel like we spend so 0:18:25.920 --> 0:18:29.280 much of our time kind of going, well, what's wrong 0:18:29.320 --> 0:18:32.480 with local government? And there's actually some real positive things 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:34.600 and some great things that they do in the community, 0:18:34.760 --> 0:18:37.280 and things that like, if you are someone who loves 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.080 your community and wants to get involved, the old hope 0:18:40.080 --> 0:18:44.679 people would go forward and yeah, really see change. I 0:18:44.720 --> 0:18:47.200 think a lot of the local government politicists I've heard 0:18:47.200 --> 0:18:50.720 from find it rewarding, find it rewarding to see things 0:18:50.760 --> 0:18:53.560 on the ground actually change in their communities, and yeah, 0:18:53.560 --> 0:18:56.840 it's a really kind of positive thing where like local 0:18:56.880 --> 0:19:00.240 people make local decisions. But yeah, set against the this 0:19:00.359 --> 0:19:03.760 kind of negativity and the turnout and the Prime minister's comments. 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.320 So it's again, it's probably one of those what we 0:19:06.359 --> 0:19:09.159 would call wicked problems of like local government that we 0:19:09.200 --> 0:19:12.360 have to continually move back towards trying to figure out 0:19:12.359 --> 0:19:16.240 something to do with it. And yeah, hopefully someone will 0:19:16.280 --> 0:19:20.119 sort it at some point. Thanks for joining us, Lara Sulda. 0:19:20.240 --> 0:19:20.600 Thank you. 0:19:23.840 --> 0:19:27.080 That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You 0:19:27.119 --> 0:19:31.000 can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage 0:19:31.040 --> 0:19:35.119 at enzadherld dot co dot nz. The Front Page is 0:19:35.200 --> 0:19:38.600 produced by Jane Ye and Richard Martin, who is also 0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:43.280 our editor. I'm Chelsea Daniels. Subscribe to The Front Page 0:19:43.320 --> 0:19:46.920 on iHeartRadio or wherever you get your podcasts, and tune 0:19:46.960 --> 0:19:50.000 in tomorrow for another look behind the headlines.