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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine

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Speaker 1: from Newstalks edb.

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Speaker 2: Teenth All Blacks centurion when he runs out against Argentina

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Speaker 2: and Buena series. He debuted against that same opposition in

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Speaker 2: twenty fifteen in christ Church, coming off the bench and

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Speaker 2: scoring a try. Well, the All Blacks screw it this time.

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Speaker 3: And mccour has a great piece of destructive scrummaging there

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Speaker 3: from the All Blacks. They come for the line. That's

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Speaker 3: Tody Taylor, not defeat a night at this time, scoring

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Speaker 3: nine debut.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that was Cody Taylor. A decade ago. Tomorrow Morning

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Speaker 2: Test number one hundred. White Crockett played seventy two times

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Speaker 2: for the All Blacks in a record two hundred and

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Speaker 2: three games for the Crusaders between two thousand and six

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Speaker 2: and twenty eighteen, the last six of those years alongside

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Speaker 2: Cody Taylor. He joins US now White. Can you remember

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Speaker 2: the first time you became aware of Cody Taylor as

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Speaker 2: a rugby player?

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Speaker 4: I do. I remember it was a pre season game

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Speaker 4: for the Crusaders and he came off the bench and

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Speaker 4: I think his first touch of the ball he got

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Speaker 4: the ball inside our half halfway line, stepped two or

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Speaker 4: three people and sprinted off and beat the fullback for pace,

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Speaker 4: caught under the post. And I was sitting next to

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Speaker 4: Corey Flynn in the stands because we went playing we're

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Speaker 4: having a bit of a longer break at the start

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Speaker 4: of the season, and I said, oh, Jesus, kid can

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Speaker 4: play mate. I think he want to keep an eye

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Speaker 4: on this one. And yeah, and he's turned out to

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Speaker 4: be pretty bloody good.

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Speaker 2: He certainly has. So once you got into a team

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Speaker 2: environment with them, I mean that's your first impression, and

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Speaker 2: a pretty decent first impression once he came into the

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Speaker 2: team environment. How did you find Cody Taylor early on

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Speaker 2: in his professional rugby career.

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Speaker 4: Well, he started off how he is now. He hasn't

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Speaker 4: changed at all. Really. I think he you know, he's

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Speaker 4: super dedicated to his craft and getting better, and that

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Speaker 4: was right from the get go. You know, he's really

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Speaker 4: meticulous about his nutrition and his training, and I think,

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Speaker 4: you know, like looking at him now, you know, I

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Speaker 4: feel like he's still getting better and still playing absolutely

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Speaker 4: at the peak of his powers, so you know, and

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Speaker 4: that's credit to the work that he does. And I

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Speaker 4: think also another fact thing that I think about Cody

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Speaker 4: as you see, super super well balanced guy. You know,

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Speaker 4: he's a family man. You know, he enjoys himself off

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Speaker 4: the off the field, but when he's in the in

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Speaker 4: that team environment, he's working extremely hard.

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Speaker 2: There are a few hookers around and I'm sure you've

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Speaker 2: come across them who are a bit chirpy. They don't

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Speaker 2: mind a chat, especially at scrum time.

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Speaker 1: Was he either like that?

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Speaker 4: No, not at all, Cody was. Cody's head down and

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Speaker 4: actions a lot like Keivy Milamo. I think you know

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Speaker 4: he just you know, just led his ex instead of talking,

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Speaker 4: and you know, very rarely. I mean, I must say,

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Speaker 4: you know he didn't you enjoy a good scrum win

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Speaker 4: And he might maybe have a couple of words at

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Speaker 4: that point, but no, I think his real actions, man,

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Speaker 4: rather than words.

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Speaker 2: You've wrapped your arm around a few blokes wearing wearing

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Speaker 2: the two jumper or the sixteen jump or whatever it

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Speaker 2: might be. What as a as a front row forward,

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Speaker 2: what do you want from your hooker?

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Speaker 4: Oh? Communication and I think is really important so he

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Speaker 4: can he can feel different things that you can't, especially

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Speaker 4: as a loose head. He's feeling different things from the

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Speaker 4: tight head than what I am, so he'll let me

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Speaker 4: know little things that's happening and things that I can

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Speaker 4: do to to help him out and vice versa. You know,

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Speaker 4: if I find feeling something that I'm not getting from him,

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Speaker 4: that that communication was always open. But but yeah, I

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Speaker 4: think that's that's really important. And yeah, I suppose just

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Speaker 4: you know, just having someone that does what they say

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Speaker 4: they're going to do and works really hard. It's what

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Speaker 4: you need. So someone that you can really trust because

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Speaker 4: you know, you is a prop you really just rely

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Speaker 4: on your hookers so so much, and he's not where

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Speaker 4: you need him to be. It's pretty pretty tough to

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Speaker 4: do your job.

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Speaker 2: And you'd been in the All Blacks for a while

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Speaker 2: when Cody Taylor made his test daybo, what was it

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Speaker 2: ten years ago? Now you've been there for a while.

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Speaker 2: A special moment. I think you might have been in

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Speaker 2: the reserves with him when he made his teest dayble.

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Speaker 5: Was that right?

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Speaker 4: Yeah? That sounds better, right, I can't quite recall, but yeah, no,

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Speaker 4: it was really special. Actually, I think you know, obviously,

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Speaker 4: I've played a lot with Corey Flunn over the years

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Speaker 4: and we're still really good mates. And Corey worked really

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Speaker 4: hard on bringing Cody through and not giving him his

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Speaker 4: jersey and making him he still work really hard to

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Speaker 4: try and go past them, and nice saw what Cody

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Speaker 4: put in to get there. People forget actually that Cody

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Speaker 4: spent two or three years at the Crusaders is the

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Speaker 4: number two or number three hooker. He was often behind

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Speaker 4: Cody and Ben for now, so he had to really

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Speaker 4: do his time, you know, probably even I'm sure he

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Speaker 4: may have even considered moving away from the Crusaders to

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Speaker 4: get his opportunity, but he didn't. He stuck at it,

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Speaker 4: work really hard, and eventually, you know, we went past

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Speaker 4: a couple of those guys, and it's always it's always

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Speaker 4: difficult when someone goes past year. But you know, pretty

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Speaker 4: pretty amazing what Corey did for I think for Cody,

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Speaker 4: and you know that sort of stood him in good

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Speaker 4: stead to go on to do what he's done.

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Speaker 5: Now.

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Speaker 2: That's a pretty special quality, isn't it. Because I'm sure

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Speaker 2: you know you've been in teams with guys who can't

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Speaker 2: get in the team and as you say, are down

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Speaker 2: the pecking order a bit, and that affects them in

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Speaker 2: and around the team and personally, for it must have

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Speaker 2: been a pretty cool quality and a teammate that even

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Speaker 2: if you are number three or you perceive yourself to

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Speaker 2: be that, you're still just working hard every day.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think it goes both ways. You know.

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Speaker 4: That was the environment that we sort of we came through,

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Speaker 4: you know, when we were coming up, and we made

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Speaker 4: sure that you know, the guys that weren't getting there

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Speaker 4: you getting it getting much of a crack, We're still

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Speaker 4: encouraging them and still working with them on on developing

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Speaker 4: their game. You know, it's funny, funny enough. It was,

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Speaker 4: you know, for myself and Corey that were sort of

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Speaker 4: I suppose you number number one and number two for

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Speaker 4: a long time, and we had Joe Moody and Cody

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Speaker 4: Taylor coming through who we everyone knew. You could see

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Speaker 4: how much potential and how good a future they had,

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Speaker 4: but you know, sometimes they went getting that crack, and

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Speaker 4: you know, I suppose we work really hard on those guys,

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Speaker 4: and I'm sure that they're working really hard with the

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Speaker 4: younger guys coming through as well, passing that bed and

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Speaker 4: onto that next crop of talent. And there's certainly some

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Speaker 4: some some good ones coming through.

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Speaker 2: That's for sure. Terrific insight. Well, thanks so much for

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Speaker 2: joining us, MATEO, I know it'll be a special day

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Speaker 2: for everybody who's worn red and black. Thanks for taking

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Speaker 2: the time for a chat this afternoon.

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Speaker 4: Now, Absolute pleasure. And you know, obviously Cody is what

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Speaker 4: he's done on the field is incredible, but off the

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Speaker 4: field as well, he's a great human and a really

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Speaker 4: just just a great news yonder in general and someone

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Speaker 4: that I think we're really proud of.

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Speaker 2: Very well said, thanks White White Crockett there, former teammate

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Speaker 2: in Crusaders colors, Canterbury colors and All Blacks colors of

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Speaker 2: Cody Taylor. Let's bring in Matt Todd. He played twenty

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Speaker 2: five tests for the All Blacks, seventy two games for

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Speaker 2: Canterbury and one hundred and forty one for the Crusaders,

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Speaker 2: many of those alongside Cody Taylor. He's now, of course

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Speaker 2: Matt Todd Crusaders defense coach, so he can offer us

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Speaker 2: a pretty unique perspective. Let's start there. Actually, Matt, is

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Speaker 2: the Cody Taylor that you now coach any different from

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Speaker 2: the Cody Taylor who was a teammate of yours.

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Speaker 5: Not too much. And obviously as as you get older, yeah,

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Speaker 5: mature a little work. But in terms of his working

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Speaker 5: looking that that's something that really stands out when you

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Speaker 5: talk about Cody. Like a lot of people after a

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Speaker 5: long season used their off season to kind of get

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Speaker 5: away from it and relaxed. But Cody, he's that type

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Speaker 5: of boat. It's always sort of seeing how he can

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Speaker 5: challenge himself and push himself physically, and he's straight into

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Speaker 5: getting himself better. And I guess that's why he's had

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Speaker 5: the career he's had. In the length of a career

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Speaker 5: he's head.

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Speaker 2: What was he like when he first came into the

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Speaker 2: Canterbury and Crusaders teams that you were a part of.

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Speaker 5: I guess just a young, enthusiastic blope Like he was

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Speaker 5: obviously a great athlete, natural speed and backed himself. You know,

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Speaker 5: he wanted to get in there, he wanted to challenge

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Speaker 5: himself and you saw, you know, like every time he

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Speaker 5: got given the opportunity he took out he he I

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Speaker 5: guess progressed pretty quickly from when he debuted for Kenna

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Speaker 5: for the Crusaders to be in the Illbecks was a

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Speaker 5: fairly rapid kind of promotion, but it was just through

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Speaker 5: that enthusiasm, excitement and backing himself whenever he got the opportunity.

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Speaker 2: What have you seen from him in terms of his

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Speaker 2: evolution as a as a hooker, Yeah, I.

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Speaker 5: Guess it's just that sort of staying a step ahead

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Speaker 5: of how the game's gone. You know, the modern day hooker,

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Speaker 5: they need to be able to play on the edge,

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Speaker 5: play almost as an extra, you know, back or Lucy

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Speaker 5: at times, and he can certainly do that, but whilst

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Speaker 5: still having that core part of his game, you know,

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Speaker 5: his lying out, throwing, his scrummaging, its working close. And

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Speaker 5: I think that ability to be able to play multiple

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Speaker 5: types of game and have the skill set to be

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Speaker 5: able to, I guess, adjust to the game plan depending

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Speaker 5: on the team, and just that ability to physically continue

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Speaker 5: to evolve. And you know there's always younger players commentation

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Speaker 5: his position, but the work he pits the physically keeps

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Speaker 5: him at the top of his game, and he's always

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Speaker 5: seeking those little bits how he can get better, how

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Speaker 5: he can look after his body, how he can more

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Speaker 5: out of his body.

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Speaker 2: You talked about core roles there, and you often hear

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Speaker 2: them when you talk about the hooking position, as you say,

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Speaker 2: throwing into the line, out, scrummaging, that sort of thing.

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Speaker 2: I guess you could easily dial that stuff in once

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Speaker 2: you've been around for a while. By the sounds of it,

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Speaker 2: he doesn't do that, nah.

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Speaker 5: Like I think you're never comfortable. You know, you don't

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Speaker 5: have a career like he does, and you rest on

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Speaker 5: your laurels. I think you pick that box off. He's

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Speaker 5: always working on or always trying to try and get better.

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Speaker 5: But at the same time, I guess when you've done

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Speaker 5: it for as long as he is, he knows the

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Speaker 5: process that works. So if he doesn't get it right,

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Speaker 5: he knows you know how to rectify the steps, to

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Speaker 5: make any adjustments and can move on quickly from a mistake,

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Speaker 5: because you're never going to get it right all the time.

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Speaker 5: But it's about, you know, making sure you're not making

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Speaker 5: the same mistakes. And when you've done it for as

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Speaker 5: long as he has that ability to have that process

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Speaker 5: to work through it just and now the next one.

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Speaker 2: What about when younger players have come into the side.

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Speaker 2: You know, with eyes on his position, younger hookers into

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Speaker 2: the environment that he's a part of. What do you

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Speaker 2: see from him? And areos like that.

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Speaker 5: He's a great mentor for the younger players coming through?

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Speaker 5: You know he understands he was that that guy one time.

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Speaker 5: And and I think you know, when he was a

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Speaker 5: young guy, he had older howkers like Flynny and etcetera

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Speaker 5: who helped him and welcomed him but but challenged him.

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Speaker 5: But they helped him get the best out of it. And

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Speaker 5: I think he's the same. You know, he welcomes any

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Speaker 5: new hooker in any young ho because he helped them.

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Speaker 5: But he also you know, makes it clear that he's

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Speaker 5: the standard they need to get to and he will

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Speaker 5: help them. But he's not going to give in and

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Speaker 5: give up his jersey. You know, you're gonna have to

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Speaker 5: take it off from if you want to get it.

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Speaker 2: And do you see from the younger players in your environment,

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Speaker 2: not just hookers, but all players. Do you see them

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Speaker 2: looking at Cody Taylor and realizing what you need to

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Speaker 2: do and what you need to be to become not

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Speaker 2: just an All Black, a good all blacker, one hundred

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Speaker 2: test all black.

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Speaker 5: Yes, certainly, you know, and you'd be silly not to.

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Speaker 5: You know, he lives He's type of like that lives

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Speaker 5: it every day. It's not a sort of sometimes thing.

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Speaker 5: And you know, I guess that's why he's playing one

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Speaker 5: hundred tests and still playing at the level that he

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Speaker 5: is and still got plenty of footy in front of

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Speaker 5: him because he lives it all the time. And yet

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Speaker 5: you see, you know, he's in there on his days

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Speaker 5: off doing extra he's looking after his body, he's making

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Speaker 5: sure he knows his opposition. Every week, he's done the

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Speaker 5: homework around that. You know, he tests himself physically during

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Speaker 5: the week, so he heads into the game and he's

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Speaker 5: confident that he's where he needs to be physically. So

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Speaker 5: all those little things, you know, there's nutrition, all the

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Speaker 5: little stuff that stacks up. You know, he's world classed

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Speaker 5: in all those areas. And for young players coming into

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Speaker 5: you know, where it's crusades, all the all blacks. You

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Speaker 5: just see what he does and how diligent is with

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Speaker 5: all that little stuff, and you soon, you know, you

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Speaker 5: soon learn what's required. But it's not easy. And it's

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Speaker 5: one thing to see it, but to be able to

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Speaker 5: actually live it as another thing.

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Speaker 2: And you have moved into coaching. Is that a path

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Speaker 2: you could see Cody Taylor take it.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, he's certainly good. You know, he's one of those

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Speaker 5: guys as well that he's always looking for extra stuff

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Speaker 5: out of the game to I guess mentally Refresham and

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Speaker 5: he's always got little side interests in that. So wherever

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Speaker 5: he goes down the coaching path, I'm not sure. But

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Speaker 5: he's certainly got the knowledge to to do it, and

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Speaker 5: and he relates well to the other players, so he could.

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Speaker 5: But he's got a lot of I guess, varied interests

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Speaker 5: and stuff away from the game that perhaps he goes

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Speaker 5: that route. I'm not too sure.

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Speaker 2: All right, Matt, Well, I appreciate you taking the time

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Speaker 2: to pay tribute to one of your former teammates and

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Speaker 2: now one of your players as a Crusader's defense coach.

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Speaker 2: Thanks very much for your time, mate. That's Matt Todd

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Speaker 2: and before Matt White Crockett paying tribute to Cody Taylor.

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Speaker 2: When you think of great All Blacks hookers, it is

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Speaker 2: quite a crowded field. Kevin me A Lummel, Sean Fitzpatrick,

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Speaker 2: Dane Coles, Andy Dalton, Cody Taylor absolutely belongs in that conversation.

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Speaker 2: The constant themes you hear about Cody Taylor are around

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Speaker 2: his work, ethic and just how much playing rugby means

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Speaker 2: to him, whether it's for Canterbury, the Crusaders, or the

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Speaker 2: All Blacks. He just apitomises what it means to be

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Speaker 2: part of something that is bigger than you. The jersey

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Speaker 2: has never been bigger than Cody Taylor, the team has

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Speaker 2: never been bigger, The game has never been bigger than

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Speaker 2: Cody Taylor. But he's enhanced the jersey, enhanced his teams,

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Speaker 2: and really done the game of rugby proud. He models

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Speaker 2: the way for anyone who joins the teams that he

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Speaker 2: is in. And you heard that from Matt Todd and

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Speaker 2: from White Crockett. They look at Cody Taylor and they

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Speaker 2: understand what it means to be an All Black, to

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Speaker 2: be a Crusader, to be a Canterbury player. He's a

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Speaker 2: leader in the size that he's a part of. He

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Speaker 2: hasn't often been captain of those teams, but he is

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Speaker 2: a prime example of the old adage that you do

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Speaker 2: not need an armband to lead. What a player he's been.

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Speaker 2: There is more to come and what a special moment

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Speaker 2: for Cody Taylor and his family tomorrow morning when he

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Speaker 2: becomes All Blacks tests Centurion number fourteen.

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Speaker 1: For more from Weekends Sport with Jason Fine, listen live

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