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Speaker 1: You're listening to the Simon Barnett and James Daniels Afternoons

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Speaker 1: podcast from Newstalks EDB.

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Speaker 2: News Talks EDB Well. Judith Collins is one of the

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Speaker 2: busiest ministers in government. She is Attorney General, Minister of Defense,

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Speaker 2: Minister for Digitizing, Government, Minister responsible for the GCSB and

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Speaker 2: the n said SIS, Minister for Science, Innovation and Technology,

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Speaker 2: and Minister for Space. During her twenty two years in parliament,

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Speaker 2: she's championed reform of New Zealand's justice system. She's been

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Speaker 2: National Party Leader and last year was made k C

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Speaker 2: King's Council. It is a pleasure to welcome Minister Judith

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Speaker 2: Collins on for six and a song. Hello Minister.

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Speaker 3: Oh hi, Sharon, my hat.

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Speaker 2: What a resume. That's like? When do you actually.

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Speaker 4: Sleep really well when I get to bed?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an exhaustive list I have to say. By

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Speaker 2: the way, can we call you Judith or do you

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Speaker 2: prefer minister.

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Speaker 4: Or do you actually I pres Judith?

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Speaker 2: Right, Well, thank you for that. We'll carry on on.

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Speaker 2: That makes you very young. Great, we all need a

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Speaker 2: bit of that.

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Speaker 3: Good Judith. This is James. You can call me James.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. Hey, Look, you started off as a lawyer,

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Speaker 3: you qualified as a lawyer, and then you had many,

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Speaker 3: many years as a lawyer. But what made you go

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Speaker 3: into politics?

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Speaker 4: Well, primarily because I've been involved in the politics legal

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Speaker 4: profession with the Law Society for years, over a decade,

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Speaker 4: and I guess also an opportunity came up and somebody

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Speaker 4: who was an MP told me I should not do

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Speaker 4: it and then I should wait my turn. So that

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Speaker 4: was just like guaranteed red rag to a ball. Just

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Speaker 4: now I have a go, I'll have a go anyway,

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Speaker 4: Still there, still there?

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Speaker 2: Hey, you used to be a bit of a labor

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Speaker 2: supporter in some respects, didn't you back in the day.

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Speaker 4: Yes, when I was a child, I like to tell

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Speaker 4: people and I grew up. But now until I went

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Speaker 4: to business. So I was about twenty six and got

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Speaker 4: into my first business and I got to deal with

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Speaker 4: a very nasty end of unions and I decided to Actually, no,

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Speaker 4: I didn't support that anymore. So yeah, I was never, thankfull,

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Speaker 4: never a member of the Labor Party, although they occasionally

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Speaker 4: claimed I was or I wasn't, but my mother was,

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Speaker 4: and because as a child I influenced her. It just

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Speaker 4: goes to show. Don't always listen to your kids.

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Speaker 2: That's a lovely, lovely story. Do you find sometimes, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, going back a bit, you were called Crusher

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Speaker 2: Collins and you've always been seen as I don't know,

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Speaker 2: maybe New Zealand's answer to Margaret Thatcher, you know, quite

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Speaker 2: an iron fist. Is that a fair representation of you?

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Speaker 2: Or do things get distorted with your game?

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Speaker 4: I think things do get distorted because it's all about

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Speaker 4: clickbait and headlines and things, and it's easy to put

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Speaker 4: labels on people. But you know, the fact is that

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Speaker 4: I've always been a very busy person and always interested

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Speaker 4: in things, And yes, I do tend to come to

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Speaker 4: decisions and I don't tend to dwell on things. So

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Speaker 4: that's sometimes can be a bit frightening for some people

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Speaker 4: who are making decisions really hard. Sometimes, you know, the

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Speaker 4: worst thing you can do is to not make a decision.

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Speaker 4: Procrastination is not for the system that it believes to

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Speaker 4: good outcomes. So at least if you make a decision,

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Speaker 4: then you can live with it and get on with it.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Judith, We do get into the personal side of

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Speaker 3: things on six and a Song, as well as the

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Speaker 3: business and politics, but so your husband is more and

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Speaker 3: how did you two meet?

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Speaker 4: I at a party in the time on the tway

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Speaker 4: and so he was a police officer and started part

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Speaker 4: time at university and I was a university student. So

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Speaker 4: he was just a very attractive young man and still

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Speaker 4: is a very attractive Youngish man.

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Speaker 2: Ah, that is a lovely story too. I mean, how

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Speaker 2: does he cope with your life? When we read out

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Speaker 2: in that introduction your portfolios, that is even for a

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Speaker 2: twenty year old, that's a hell of a lot of work.

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Speaker 2: I mean, do you have time for romance.

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Speaker 4: Or our getting personal now? I think I think the

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Speaker 4: point is that we've value our time together. And I

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Speaker 4: think too is you know, we don't have a Sun

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Speaker 4: is now thirty one, so he's not a baby open

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Speaker 4: to run around after him. And in fact, you know,

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Speaker 4: my husband's very aware that what I do is not

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Speaker 4: is not my entire life. I have to have some downtime,

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Speaker 4: although I don't get much of it. But look, we

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Speaker 4: have a great time together and I think you know,

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Speaker 4: we've been together now for over forty years, so it

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Speaker 4: seems to work.

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Speaker 3: Privilege on.

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Speaker 2: Do you do your own grocery shopping.

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Speaker 4: Mostly, although he also does some so we've worked out.

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Speaker 4: I see it as got opportunities to get out and

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Speaker 4: do stuff myself. But also I like to see the

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Speaker 4: prices and I like to do normal stuff. I think,

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Speaker 4: you know, being quite high profile and people knowing you

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Speaker 4: can you can tents think oh get it brought into

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Speaker 4: me everyone's talk. I just think it's really important for

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Speaker 4: us to as MP's to be out doing normal stuff

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Speaker 4: because actually otherwise we start to think that we walk

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Speaker 4: on water and we really don't, and we really do

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Speaker 4: need to be very connected to people. Were script sent.

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Speaker 3: So as an MP, who do you get on best

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Speaker 3: within Parliament?

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Speaker 4: Well, I just completely love the Prime Minister. Obviously, I

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Speaker 4: guess you get on with lots of people. I find

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Speaker 4: it's but that.

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Speaker 2: Sounds genuine to me. You genuinely obviously really get on

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Speaker 2: well with Crystoma lex And as a person.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I find a very decent person to deal

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Speaker 4: with is my experience of him. And you know, I

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Speaker 4: like dealing with people who have high standards and who

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Speaker 4: set goals and then get on do them and work hard.

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Speaker 4: It's one thing I cannot abide of people who are

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Speaker 4: lazy and expect everyone else to do the work. For them,

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Speaker 4: and he doesn't is a really hard worker.

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Speaker 3: Who to get on with. On the other side of

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Speaker 3: the aisle, I give.

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Speaker 4: It really well. People were surprised to get on really

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Speaker 4: well with lots of pup across the r Like if

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Speaker 4: I was, I mean Clarry swaw Brick, would would I

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Speaker 4: think she would speak well of me person I think it.

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Speaker 4: Polertics are terrible, but you know, as a human being,

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Speaker 4: I like as a human being, there are people in

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Speaker 4: the labor place who I get on well with. Helen

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Speaker 4: White's nice, very nice. There's lots of people that did

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Speaker 4: a RUSS. I get them really well with what way

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Speaker 4: if I've been on slip in with these with people,

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Speaker 4: I tend to get on well with them because we

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Speaker 4: know each other in a slightly less ed the serial way.

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Speaker 4: It's true, I mean lots of them. Actually, I just

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Speaker 4: think Parliament's tough environment. There's no need, no need though

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Speaker 4: to be mean.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, good on you. Hey, Look, Judith, A lot has

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Speaker 2: been made, of course of the rise of AI artificial intelligence.

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Speaker 2: You're at the forefront of that with your technology and spaceport.

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Speaker 2: For those I suppose do you stay on a per level.

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Speaker 2: I feel a wee bit twitchy about some of the

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Speaker 2: innovations with AI. Do you think that we have a

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Speaker 2: reason to be fearful of it?

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Speaker 4: Figure something we should fare with AI is not understanding

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Speaker 4: We're already using it. So I don't know if you

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Speaker 4: say Google nets or some other variation of that, that's

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Speaker 4: a AI. If you use banking apps is quite a

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Speaker 4: bit at AI, and that if you almost all sorts

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Speaker 4: of things that we find handing Uber, all those sorts

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Speaker 4: of things very much dependent on AI, because all AI

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Speaker 4: really is is data plus software. And so I think

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Speaker 4: the point is that we need to understand is that

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Speaker 4: the bad actors in the world are using AI. It's

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Speaker 4: really important for us to look at how we can

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Speaker 4: produce better services for people so that they can actually

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Speaker 4: enjoy their lives of it more. And so things like

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Speaker 4: where was the last time you bought a physical net

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Speaker 4: or even try to unfold one that's right and find

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Speaker 4: your way somewhere, you know, just don't have that now,

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Speaker 4: do we. And it's because actually we've got AI in

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Speaker 4: that form.

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Speaker 3: Hey, Judith, you've been in politics for over twenty years. Now,

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Speaker 3: what do you consider your biggest win in politics?

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Speaker 4: Well, the Bible was pretty good, Yeah, someone said to

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Speaker 4: the other day as your huge compliment. They said something

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Speaker 4: learn something like a phoenix rising out of the ashes,

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Speaker 4: and I think I said, yeah, I think I should

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Speaker 4: renamed myself Poenicia. But yeah, the Bible was good. But

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Speaker 4: you know it's those thought every day little things that

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Speaker 4: you do that actually make a difference. So someone was

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Speaker 4: saying to me this morning that a few years back

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Speaker 4: I brought a son into Parliament and I had a

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Speaker 4: word to the son and said talked about what the

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Speaker 4: nursery and boy wants to do, and I said, you

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Speaker 4: can get on to do anything you like, and talked

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Speaker 4: from about some things and and opportunities in life and

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Speaker 4: where I came from, where I was then, And he

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Speaker 4: told me this morning of Sunsday really really well in

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Speaker 4: myf and he saw talks about that I was able

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Speaker 4: to inspire him. But like that, actually, I have to say,

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Speaker 4: that really rocks my boat. It was fantastic. You're excited

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Speaker 4: by it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's very rewarding News Talks. He'd be our guest

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Speaker 2: on six and the song is Minister Judith Collins. Judith,

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Speaker 2: thanks again so much for being generous with your time.

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Speaker 2: So these are rapid fire kind of questions, we'll just

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Speaker 2: fire met you. First thing that comes to mind is.

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Speaker 3: You've got a special place, no doubt. So what is

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Speaker 3: that one place you never get tired of going home?

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Speaker 4: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: And I poffer around and I do things like bake.

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Speaker 2: Oh what's you go to baking?

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Speaker 4: Well you can do with bananas, because running at home

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Speaker 4: is normally some bananas are but past used by Dack,

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Speaker 4: so they go into it. But I love doing things

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Speaker 4: like that, and it's just like the calm stuff I

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Speaker 4: like doing.

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Speaker 3: Are you a gardener?

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Speaker 4: Not as much as I should have looked out the

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Speaker 4: Vega garden this morning and thought, oh yeah, I haven't

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Speaker 4: got time to it today.

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Speaker 2: I've got a lovely mental image of you and you

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Speaker 2: catching with other mits. For some reason, What's what's one

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Speaker 2: of the nicest compliments you've ever received in your life?

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Speaker 4: I guess just that I've helped somebody. That's really great.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I always love what people say things like

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Speaker 4: you're younger than you do on TV, and I take

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Speaker 4: that as an absolute one. I say thank you so

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Speaker 4: much when I talk about how TV also added that

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Speaker 4: you and stuff and I rave on I just lot hate.

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Speaker 2: I think we all want to yes, absolutely. And you know,

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Speaker 2: as you mentioned, you've got a very high profile. You're

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Speaker 2: on the television news all the time and images of

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Speaker 2: course billboards. Would you ever consider plastic surgery? Not that

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Speaker 2: you need it? No, no, no, I'm just saying it's

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Speaker 2: a genuine question.

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Speaker 4: I reckon, that's a great idea. Do you think I

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Speaker 4: should get some No?

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Speaker 2: No, it wasn't something you need it.

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Speaker 3: I just say dig that whole simon going, hey, judus,

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Speaker 3: what's something that you thought was important when you were young?

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Speaker 3: But it's you got older you realize.

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Speaker 4: That it isn't being popular?

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Speaker 2: Oh true?

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Speaker 4: Just don't. I mean I've never was popular as a child.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure I'm deceentily that popular now. The point

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Speaker 4: is that just get on with your life and don't

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Speaker 4: worry about that somebody else might not like you, or

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Speaker 4: you won't be probably in the crowd. I was never

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Speaker 4: part of the in the crowd, never have been, never

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Speaker 4: will be. And that's fine.

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Speaker 2: I love that that confidence. If you had the power

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Speaker 2: to change one thing in your world, what.

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Speaker 3: Would it be?

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Speaker 4: Well nexturally egotistically child like to be taller, twenty seven

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Speaker 4: years old, topa your model, but not so I think

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Speaker 4: one thing I'd changed my world. I let people know

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Speaker 4: that nobody should ever set feelings for them, that everyone

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Speaker 4: has the right to aspire to any think they want

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Speaker 4: to be if they're prepared to work for it, and

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Speaker 4: they take those opportunities. I just think I get very

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Speaker 4: grumpy with people who say things like I can't do

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Speaker 4: such and such, or somebody my child can't do that,

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Speaker 4: because that's not what we do. You know, just stop

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Speaker 4: limiting other people. Get on that them have their lives.

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Speaker 2: I read some years ago now, I mean it would

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Speaker 2: have to be going back five six, seven years and

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Speaker 2: the listener, I think it was a story on you,

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Speaker 2: and I really loved the story. I got a real

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Speaker 2: insight as to who you were as a person. You

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Speaker 2: spoke exceptionally fondly of your dad and I think he

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Speaker 2: may have passed away, and you just said what a

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Speaker 2: major influence he was in your life. Can you tell

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Speaker 2: us very.

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Speaker 4: Quickly about your na my dad used to My dad

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Speaker 4: was the World War two veteran. Before that, he was

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Speaker 4: growing up on a farm in the king Country in

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Speaker 4: the days the Great Depression, and he never had the

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Speaker 4: chance to education pass Brimar School. But he used to

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Speaker 4: say to me. Never let anybody tell you you can't

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Speaker 4: do something, or that they're better than you. You just

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Speaker 4: get on and do what you want to do. That

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Speaker 4: was a great inspiration for a kid, and I guess

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Speaker 4: I always wanted to fulfill that. Just do the best

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Speaker 4: I can. Those people, don't limit the children, let them

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Speaker 4: do it.

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Speaker 3: Wants to lovely nice. Final question, Judith, if you could

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Speaker 3: invite any one person still alive for dinner, who would

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Speaker 3: that be?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I've got to say that the list of those

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Speaker 4: people are shrinking. I would say possibly Angela Merkle. I've

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Speaker 4: once in a field and danced and Poland in two

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Speaker 4: thousand and nine, and I thought, what a nice person

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Speaker 4: she came across as but also intelligence. I'd quite like

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Speaker 4: to find out a little bit more about some of

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Speaker 4: the decisions she'd made through the years, and you know

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Speaker 4: how she maintained her her sense of self and obviously

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Speaker 4: her humility, which was obvious to anyone who messages a

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Speaker 4: really nice person.

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Speaker 2: What a thoughtful answer. That's great. And finally, Judith, we

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Speaker 2: get to ask you which song you would like to

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Speaker 2: choose and why this one?

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Speaker 4: Please well Lovely Day by Bill Withers. I just thought

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Speaker 4: of loved it. The fact that really really positive. You

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Speaker 4: can't listen to it without smiling and being really grateful

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Speaker 4: for life.

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Speaker 2: What a great choice, Minister Judith Collins. Thank you again.

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Speaker 2: We've loved chatting with you all the very best.

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Speaker 4: Thanks a great day.

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Speaker 2: Judith Collins. This is her song Lovely Day and News Talks.

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Speaker 1: MB for more from Simon Barnett and James Daniels afternoons.

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Speaker 1: Listen live to News Talks EDB, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio