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Speaker 1: You study looked into unpaid university placements found the likes

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Speaker 1: of teachers, nurses, social workers, midwives get hit badly financially

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Speaker 1: from their time spent interning. So in a nurse's case,

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Speaker 1: it can take eight years to have higher cumulative earnings

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Speaker 1: and someone who worked the minimum wage in the same time. Now,

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Speaker 1: the lead author of all Or, the senior lecturer in

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Speaker 1: maths and Status at the University of Canterbury, Layton Watson,

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Speaker 1: is with us late and morning.

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Speaker 2: To you Money Mike, thanks for having me on the show.

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Speaker 1: Not at all. It's a no answer problem, isn't it.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yes, you can work minimum wage, but you're

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Speaker 1: probably not happy. You might be happy being a social

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Speaker 1: worker or a midwife. It's your choice, isn't it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think for a long time we've relied

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Speaker 2: on people's passion in these sales to attract teachers, nurses,

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Speaker 2: social workers, in midwife They don't normally do it for

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Speaker 2: the pay, if not normally, people don't go into these

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Speaker 2: professions to make a huge amount of money. They go

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Speaker 2: into it for the passion. And what we're trying to

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Speaker 2: demonstrate here is that there's workforce shortages in these areas.

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Speaker 2: And I think potentially we have been relying on the

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Speaker 2: passion too long to recruit and retain workers in these

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Speaker 2: in these.

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Speaker 1: Professions, I tend to agree where the dropout right comes

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Speaker 1: in is the dropout right because of the pay. I mean,

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Speaker 1: even if you accept it as do people not know

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Speaker 1: when they enter these study periods that there is this

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Speaker 1: requirement and therefore the sacrifice.

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Speaker 2: I think people might know, but maybe not fully understand

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Speaker 2: the kind of magnitude of it. So outside of the

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Speaker 2: work we did here, there's in other survey studies looking

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Speaker 2: at people and social work and Midwest Areian teaching where

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Speaker 2: they've talked about the number of people is financially struggling

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Speaker 2: during the semester, so when they're just taking classes, but

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Speaker 2: when they're not on placements can be something on the

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Speaker 2: order kind of ten percent or ten percent of students

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Speaker 2: in these professions might be financially struggling or they're taking classes,

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Speaker 2: but when they go onto placements that can increase to

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Speaker 2: sixty five to seventy five percent of students struggling. So

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Speaker 2: it really indicates that these placements and the requirements that

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Speaker 2: come along with them can be really difficult to manage

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Speaker 2: in terms of other employment opportunities in terms of jogging,

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Speaker 2: childcare responsibilities and all of those sorts of things that

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Speaker 2: got along with them.

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Speaker 1: Doctors, I know from my personal experience with a daughter

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Speaker 1: at mid school get it stipend in year six? Is

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Speaker 1: that the answer? Give them something and it'll help.

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Speaker 2: That's definitely one of the answers. And so there's a

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Speaker 2: paid placement petition that was delivered to Parliament last year

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Speaker 2: which was advertating for paid training, to pay a training

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Speaker 2: wage throughout the course of the studies and just a reference.

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Speaker 2: That's not a radical idea. In fact, Australia's actually implemented

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Speaker 2: something very similar starting in this year on twenty twenty five,

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Speaker 2: where they're paying people in these professions three hundred and

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Speaker 2: twenty dollars a week while they're on placements.

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Speaker 1: Nice to talk to you, Laighton Watson, who's the lead

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Speaker 1: author of that particular report. You do get the highest salary.

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Speaker 1: It takes fourteen years, a nursing takes fourteen years and

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Speaker 1: your quit zin. So there's the big picture of view

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Speaker 1: of matters. For more from the Mic Asking Breakfast listen

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Speaker 1: live to news talks. It'd be from six am weekdays,

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Speaker 1: or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,