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Speaker 1: The New Zealand Economic Forum. This youre being held at

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Speaker 1: Wake out of University, brings together a bunch of heavy

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Speaker 1: hitters and big brains. The focus this year is on

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Speaker 1: economic constraints, future challenges and emerging opportunities. Former Australian Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister Scott Morrison is your star of the show and

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Speaker 1: he as well as very good morning to you.

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Speaker 2: You get a mike. It's great to be with you again.

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Speaker 1: It's great to have you on the program. Are you

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Speaker 1: reveling in life post politics?

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Speaker 2: Yes, it's you know, there is certainly life after politics.

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Speaker 2: It's it's wonderful to have that opportunity and very grateful

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Speaker 2: for it. But from a family and otherwise point of view,

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Speaker 2: it's a very nice life on the other side.

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Speaker 1: No, I know you traveling because I saw a photo

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Speaker 1: and I can't remember whether it was post Christmas or

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Speaker 1: pre Christmas, but it was with the new president at

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Speaker 1: Mari Lago. So you've been with them.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, we were down there. Jenny and I were

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Speaker 2: down there on New Ye's Eve at Mari Lago, which

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Speaker 2: was great to see him again and the first lady

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Speaker 2: of course, and had been a while since Jenny and

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Speaker 2: she had caught up, but that was love to see

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Speaker 2: them red.

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Speaker 1: What are your observations of him so far?

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Speaker 2: I'm not surprised. I mean, he is a disruptor and

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Speaker 2: that's not a bad thing when you're trying to change things.

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Speaker 2: And he's an unorthodox politician and he's playing to form

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Speaker 2: and there's a lot he wants to get done in

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Speaker 2: a very short period of time and he's getting about it.

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Speaker 2: And the way that he does things now that's you know,

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Speaker 2: that's not what people are used to, but that's sort

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Speaker 2: of the point.

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Speaker 1: So give us an insight into this work ethic. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he works all day. How does he do it?

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Speaker 2: Well, It's hard to know. I don't think it's just

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Speaker 2: a coke and the hamburgers. It's all any number of things.

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Speaker 2: I think it's the disciplines of a lifetime. But you're right,

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Speaker 2: he's always full of energy. He loves what he's doing.

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Speaker 2: He's very motivated by it, and he's totally invested. And

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Speaker 2: he's one of those characters that I mean, he'd be

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Speaker 2: like that if he was running the country, running his companies,

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Speaker 2: or anything else he was engaged in. He's just that

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Speaker 2: type of a guy, and that creates a lot of

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Speaker 2: energy I think around his ministration and you've got all

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Speaker 2: of his advisors and the secretaries of state and so on,

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Speaker 2: who frankly running as hard as they can to keep up.

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Speaker 2: So he's out there leading by example.

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Speaker 1: And what do you make of the tariffs? And how

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Speaker 1: do you handle these things? I mean you've been there before,

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Speaker 1: of course.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well, you're just got to make your case. I mean,

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Speaker 2: what often happens with a number of these initiatives is

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Speaker 2: you know, there's a general sort of position and he

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Speaker 2: moves and then if there are things to modify or

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Speaker 2: moderate or fine tune along the way, then that's what

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Speaker 2: they'll do. And we've already seen that in the case

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Speaker 2: of Mexico and Canada. Our government, wiston well is a

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Speaker 2: full support bipartisan to secure the same exemptions that we

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Speaker 2: did last time on two occasions, and that was done.

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Speaker 2: What I know about the President is, you know, he

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Speaker 2: will hear a good argument from people who you know

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Speaker 2: aren't passengers. And there's one thing he doesn't like. It's

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Speaker 2: where a relationship is, where the US is carrying and

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Speaker 2: everyone else is riding on the back. Now, you know,

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Speaker 2: I always used to say about relationship with the US

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Speaker 2: on security, and I've said it on the White House lawn.

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Speaker 2: We looked at the US, but we don't leave it

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Speaker 2: to the US. We do our part. We carry out

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Speaker 2: our share of the relationship and that's who gets on

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Speaker 2: best with the US.

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Speaker 1: So that relationship with Australia, how's that gone so fast

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Speaker 1: that they've had the phone call with Alban Easy Miles

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Speaker 1: has gone and talked to Orcus with Hissketh and handed

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Speaker 1: over a fairly large check. Penny Wong was at the inauguration.

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Speaker 1: Are they all good science?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look they are, and it's early days. The Orcus

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Speaker 2: announcement I wasn't surprised by because I never thought it

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Speaker 2: was in any doubt. I'd spoken to him last May

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Speaker 2: when I saw him in New York. So you know,

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Speaker 2: sometimes a bit of mediusaria builds up around these things.

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Speaker 2: It's because someone doesn't confirm something, they assume that they're

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Speaker 2: opposed to it. No, they're just not talking about it.

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Speaker 2: And so I think it was totally on trajectory for

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Speaker 2: them to do that. And what was announced in terms

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Speaker 2: of our investment, well that was part of the plan

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Speaker 2: from a long time ago, So you know that was

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Speaker 2: just in a form taking its route. But no, I

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Speaker 2: think it was good. I'm pleased that people were there

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Speaker 2: at the inauguration. Penny was there, and I think the

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Speaker 2: relationship with Excess and Richard Marles is a very important one,

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Speaker 2: and I think Richard has applied himself strongly to Orcus.

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Speaker 2: But you know, from here on in, I mean it's

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Speaker 2: too early to tell on the leader level engagement. There

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Speaker 2: just hasn't really been any of any great substance yet.

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Speaker 2: So you know, you've got to work through a few issues.

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Speaker 2: You've got to deal with a few problems. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we had many many calls when I was Prime Minister,

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Speaker 2: as did my predecessor, and you talk about a lot

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Speaker 2: of different things, and you've got to work through those

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Speaker 2: challenges together and share a like mindedness. And that's not

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Speaker 2: always I mean for us it was, you know, we're

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Speaker 2: sort of politically of the same feather and but you know, similarly,

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Speaker 2: I used to deal with President Biden, and you know

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Speaker 2: we actually signed aucus under President Biden, started under President Trump,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, it was it was concluded under President Biden.

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Speaker 1: You're of course part of a company these days with

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Speaker 1: Mike Pompeo, who's an investor in Orcus. Are you as

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Speaker 1: passionate about that as you ever were? And will it

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Speaker 1: come to fruition and will it be a good thing?

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Speaker 2: Yes, yes on all counts. And I'm also now working

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Speaker 2: as vice chair ever think called American Global Strategies, which

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Speaker 2: is chaired by Robert O'Brien, who was the President's National

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Speaker 2: Security advisor the first time around. And you know, we're

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Speaker 2: very involved in trying to support all of those things

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Speaker 2: around Aucust. And whether I'm here or in New Zealand

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Speaker 2: or in the UK where i'll be next week, or

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Speaker 2: the US, you know, you've got to keep tending to

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Speaker 2: the garden on this and I'm pleased that. Well, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's been change of governments. I wish one hadn't changed

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Speaker 2: to Barron part but you know that happens in politics.

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Speaker 2: There's one that's changed in the US, there's one that's

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Speaker 2: changed in the UK since the founding partners put it together,

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Speaker 2: and it is just it has been stronger than it

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Speaker 2: was then, and I'm pleased about that. It's beyond partisan politics.

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Speaker 2: And that is the thing that I think concerns, you know,

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Speaker 2: potential advases or advasaries like China, because they know this

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Speaker 2: thing hasn't gone away. It has gone at cross party

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Speaker 2: lines and has become part of the security architecture of globally,

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Speaker 2: but particularly of the Indo Pacific.

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Speaker 1: Speaking of change of government, we've got an election at

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Speaker 1: your place in Australia, have got possibly even next month.

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Speaker 1: So this story of Dutton who seems to have come

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Speaker 1: from nowhere to be a real contender, does he stand

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Speaker 1: a chance of that? Fair?

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Speaker 2: Are you certainly a contender and highly competitive? And I

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Speaker 2: think it's becoming very close to a coin toss for

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Speaker 2: the election, which it can be as late as May,

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Speaker 2: and if they do a budget it will probably more

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Speaker 2: likely be in May. But Peters and the team have

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Speaker 2: been united right from the outset, and to be fair,

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Speaker 2: they inherited that from Josh and I as a parliamentary party.

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Speaker 2: The coalition was strong, so we haven't there's been no

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Speaker 2: infighting on our side of politics, which is very rare

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Speaker 2: in the first term after losing election, and so they've

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Speaker 2: kept that all together. They steady, incremental and they've just

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Speaker 2: built and built and built, and the government has got

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Speaker 2: itself into a lot of trouble by its own hand.

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Speaker 2: So I can't see the I can't see the government

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Speaker 2: being returned to the majority. I can't see a circumstance

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Speaker 2: where that happens. I think Peter does have the chance

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Speaker 2: that lives in the NATS have the chance to potentially

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Speaker 2: win a majority government. But you know, it's a big

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Speaker 2: hill to climb, but they've been climbing it.

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Speaker 1: Well, is it in competence that sunk labor in that sense?

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Speaker 1: I mean, you never lose after one term. History shows

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Speaker 1: us that, and yet they.

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Speaker 2: Might well, it hasn't happened since nineteen thirty one, So

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Speaker 2: I think that says things. I mean, I think political

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Speaker 2: cycles these days are contracting compared to those times. But

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Speaker 2: that said, well, you know, governments are going to get

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Speaker 2: measured on what they said they were going to do.

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Speaker 2: And they said, you know, they'd make costs of living cheaper,

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Speaker 2: they said that energy cost would be lower, They said

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Speaker 2: a whole bunch of things which I knew wasn't true

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Speaker 2: at the time and they couldn't do, but they still

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Speaker 2: said them. And I think that's left people wondering where

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Speaker 2: they where the outcome is.

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Speaker 1: Of course, you're in the country to talk about economics,

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Speaker 1: which we're deeply interested in at the moment, and trying

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Speaker 1: to grow the economy. So give us some advice from Australia,

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Speaker 1: particularly international investment, money flowing in from overseas, things like students.

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Speaker 1: You've got huge numbers of students. They bring a fortune

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Speaker 1: to the country. But there's the political aspect of it

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Speaker 1: because they take people's houses. Everyone gets upset that whole thing.

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Speaker 1: How do you deal with the world in foreign investment

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Speaker 1: and immigrants and their money without blowing it up politically.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's it's a tough equation to balance. And the

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Speaker 2: most important thing is people need to understand that your

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Speaker 2: immigration program has strong rules and they're enforced, and that

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Speaker 2: your borders are secure. In our experience in Australia, going

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Speaker 2: back to twenty thirteen when I was Immigration Ministry and

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Speaker 2: we had the boats charging across the waters up there

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Speaker 2: and people dying every week, people felt that the country

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Speaker 2: had lost control of its borders and its security. And

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Speaker 2: you can't run a successful immigration program in that environment.

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Speaker 2: People just lose all confidence in it. And so you've

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Speaker 2: got to build that trust up again that the people

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Speaker 2: you're letting the country are coming to add value, to

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Speaker 2: make a contribution, not take one. And you've got to

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Speaker 2: demonstrate what those where they be temporary migrants who are

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Speaker 2: here for studying or on schools, visas or things like that,

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Speaker 2: or otherwise. If people don't think the rules are being

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Speaker 2: followed and the systems being gained, well you know they

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Speaker 2: won't buy it. But more broadly on attracting foreign investment,

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Speaker 2: I mean the playbook that you know I've heard set

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Speaker 2: out here in like Cato by the Finance Minister and others,

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Speaker 2: is really that similar game plan that so you can

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Speaker 2: do in the United States remove the barriers that are

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Speaker 2: coming through regulation, most importantly to improve competitiveness. It's really

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Speaker 2: not rocket science. You've just got to focus on removing

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Speaker 2: as many impediments to investment and business activity as you can.

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Speaker 2: And you've got to get access to labor. And you know,

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Speaker 2: you've got to be able to make a quid at

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Speaker 2: the end of the day, because if you don't, people

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Speaker 2: an't going to invest. I'll just go somewhere else.

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Speaker 1: That's true. It's always good to catch up with you

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Speaker 1: appreciate it very much. Go well, Scott Morrison, former Prime

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Speaker 1: Minister of Austrike. You're always a pleasure to have him

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Speaker 1: on the program.

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Speaker 2: For more from the My Asking Breakfast listen live to

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Speaker 2: news talks it'd be from six am weekdays, or follow

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