1 00:00:06,667 --> 00:00:10,387 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Weekend Sport podcast with Jason Vine 2 00:00:10,707 --> 00:00:12,027 Speaker 1: from Newstalk ZEDB. 3 00:00:12,787 --> 00:00:16,147 Speaker 2: Eleven past two New Zealand tennis fans will remember well, 4 00:00:16,187 --> 00:00:19,027 Speaker 2: I'm sure the name Honie Paren one of our best 5 00:00:19,067 --> 00:00:22,587 Speaker 2: ever players, former top twenty player. He made the Australian 6 00:00:22,627 --> 00:00:26,827 Speaker 2: Open final in nineteen seventy three, Wimbledon quarter finalist in 7 00:00:26,907 --> 00:00:30,107 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy one and again in nineteen seventy two, US 8 00:00:30,187 --> 00:00:34,667 Speaker 2: Open quarter finalist nineteen seventy three, French Open doubles champion 9 00:00:34,747 --> 00:00:39,267 Speaker 2: nineteen seventy four and French Open singles quarterfinal in nineteen 10 00:00:39,387 --> 00:00:42,787 Speaker 2: seventy five. And the main character Honie Paren in some 11 00:00:43,027 --> 00:00:48,627 Speaker 2: memorable Davis Cup battles in the sixties, seventies and eighties. Now, 12 00:00:48,707 --> 00:00:53,027 Speaker 2: his son, Philip Paren is deeply involved in professional sport. 13 00:00:53,347 --> 00:00:57,107 Speaker 2: He is senior director of Global Operations with Octagon, a 14 00:00:57,187 --> 00:01:01,027 Speaker 2: leading global agency in sports, entertainment and culture with a 15 00:01:01,067 --> 00:01:04,427 Speaker 2: focus on basketball. Philip Paren is back home for Easter 16 00:01:04,587 --> 00:01:06,347 Speaker 2: and joins us Now. Philip, thanks for taking the time, 17 00:01:06,347 --> 00:01:09,187 Speaker 2: so I'm tell us first of all about Octagon and 18 00:01:09,307 --> 00:01:13,907 Speaker 2: the scale of operations that your your company is involved in. 19 00:01:14,587 --> 00:01:17,227 Speaker 3: Jason, first of all, thank you for having me. I'm 20 00:01:17,707 --> 00:01:20,827 Speaker 3: very happy to be on your show and to get 21 00:01:20,867 --> 00:01:25,227 Speaker 3: to talk a little bit about basketball. So Octagon is 22 00:01:25,267 --> 00:01:28,747 Speaker 3: one of the leading sports agencies in the world with 23 00:01:28,827 --> 00:01:32,747 Speaker 3: a variety of athletes across the board that are being represented. 24 00:01:35,187 --> 00:01:39,707 Speaker 3: Basketball is the division where where I operate. We represent 25 00:01:40,147 --> 00:01:45,147 Speaker 3: global superstars like Janni Santotokumpo, like Steph Curry, and you know, 26 00:01:45,307 --> 00:01:48,227 Speaker 3: due to basketball being a global sports, I think we 27 00:01:48,267 --> 00:01:51,747 Speaker 3: represent players all over the world. So you know, I've 28 00:01:51,787 --> 00:01:54,947 Speaker 3: been fortunate enough after being in the business. This is 29 00:01:54,987 --> 00:01:57,867 Speaker 3: going to be my twenty fifth year this year, you know, 30 00:01:58,027 --> 00:02:00,987 Speaker 3: to have worked my way, you know, into into a 31 00:02:01,027 --> 00:02:03,747 Speaker 3: wonderful agency and a group of people that I work with. 32 00:02:03,827 --> 00:02:08,067 Speaker 3: And you know, I've been there since twoenty and eighteen, 33 00:02:08,187 --> 00:02:10,587 Speaker 3: when I move from Europe to the to Chicago to 34 00:02:10,627 --> 00:02:14,027 Speaker 3: the United States, and so that's what I do. I 35 00:02:14,067 --> 00:02:15,907 Speaker 3: help players move all around the world. 36 00:02:16,427 --> 00:02:19,627 Speaker 2: Tell us about your day to day specific spell up 37 00:02:19,627 --> 00:02:22,627 Speaker 2: what a And I'm sure this is a silly question 38 00:02:22,707 --> 00:02:24,507 Speaker 2: when I say the word typical, but what would a 39 00:02:24,547 --> 00:02:26,667 Speaker 2: typical wake look like for you? 40 00:02:29,107 --> 00:02:33,267 Speaker 3: Depends if we're in transfer season or out of transfer season. 41 00:02:33,347 --> 00:02:37,467 Speaker 3: So right now, there's something called the transfer portal in 42 00:02:37,547 --> 00:02:41,867 Speaker 3: American college. So to be honest, also here with the 43 00:02:41,907 --> 00:02:44,627 Speaker 3: time change, I get up every morning at at four 44 00:02:44,627 --> 00:02:46,827 Speaker 3: point thirty. To be able to field the calls. I 45 00:02:46,867 --> 00:02:48,907 Speaker 3: have to work with a lot of time zones around 46 00:02:48,947 --> 00:02:52,707 Speaker 3: the world. I would say that during the transfer process, 47 00:02:52,867 --> 00:02:56,627 Speaker 3: I'm probably fielding something around one hundred calls a day. 48 00:02:56,907 --> 00:02:59,107 Speaker 3: So you know, you have to get the word out 49 00:02:59,147 --> 00:03:01,667 Speaker 3: around the players. You have to communicate back to them. 50 00:03:02,107 --> 00:03:05,307 Speaker 3: So that's what goes on during the transfer process. Then 51 00:03:05,347 --> 00:03:08,467 Speaker 3: when the transfer portal closes down and the other ones 52 00:03:08,507 --> 00:03:11,627 Speaker 3: start opening up, so this is right now happening in college. 53 00:03:11,627 --> 00:03:14,867 Speaker 3: Then you have the professional basketball players. You know, players 54 00:03:14,867 --> 00:03:18,267 Speaker 3: in the NBA, so there's always rules and regulations and 55 00:03:18,307 --> 00:03:22,547 Speaker 3: windows when people move. And then the other side is 56 00:03:23,307 --> 00:03:26,907 Speaker 3: basically managing the player's careers. I like to use the 57 00:03:26,947 --> 00:03:31,027 Speaker 3: word managing instead of agentcing agency is moving a player 58 00:03:31,067 --> 00:03:34,667 Speaker 3: from A to B. My philosophy is a little different. 59 00:03:35,107 --> 00:03:38,507 Speaker 3: I like to manage the players careers to try to 60 00:03:38,627 --> 00:03:42,467 Speaker 3: ensure their success as they move along. So I would 61 00:03:42,507 --> 00:03:46,867 Speaker 3: say it's a variety of things ranging from off court practice, 62 00:03:47,107 --> 00:03:54,667 Speaker 3: on court marketing, deals, finances, logistics, moving the player, and 63 00:03:54,787 --> 00:03:58,507 Speaker 3: just being a good advisor on the side, being always 64 00:03:58,547 --> 00:04:01,587 Speaker 3: there when the players need you the most and hopefully 65 00:04:01,627 --> 00:04:03,787 Speaker 3: setting them up for future success. 66 00:04:04,147 --> 00:04:06,107 Speaker 2: Can I ask you about both of those and I'll 67 00:04:06,107 --> 00:04:07,787 Speaker 2: get to the managing part of the moment, but the 68 00:04:07,907 --> 00:04:11,747 Speaker 2: agency and part find you know, finding a new home 69 00:04:11,787 --> 00:04:14,587 Speaker 2: for a player when you're fielding so many phone calls, 70 00:04:14,587 --> 00:04:17,747 Speaker 2: as you outlined before, how do you work out where 71 00:04:17,747 --> 00:04:21,867 Speaker 2: the best place for one of your players is. 72 00:04:22,507 --> 00:04:25,147 Speaker 3: I would say that I'm a big fan of teamwork. 73 00:04:25,427 --> 00:04:28,547 Speaker 3: So where I grew up in Europe, I don't think 74 00:04:28,907 --> 00:04:32,627 Speaker 3: there's a there's an all knowing agent that can switch 75 00:04:33,067 --> 00:04:36,387 Speaker 3: hats and be an expert in all fields. So my 76 00:04:36,507 --> 00:04:39,667 Speaker 3: strategy has always been to surround myself with people that 77 00:04:39,827 --> 00:04:42,827 Speaker 3: know more than me, which I've been very lucky to have, 78 00:04:43,027 --> 00:04:46,587 Speaker 3: you know, very knowledgeable colleagues. And so it's a variety 79 00:04:46,627 --> 00:04:49,827 Speaker 3: of ways we watch the way the team plays. We 80 00:04:49,947 --> 00:04:53,987 Speaker 3: have a lot of computer programs if you like Synergy. Instead, 81 00:04:54,627 --> 00:04:56,827 Speaker 3: we try to find what we say is a right fit. 82 00:04:57,827 --> 00:05:00,947 Speaker 3: You know, the player's role, what is the player developments 83 00:05:00,947 --> 00:05:04,227 Speaker 3: inside the team, and all of these things have to match. 84 00:05:04,267 --> 00:05:06,787 Speaker 3: And for me, it's like stairs. You know, before you 85 00:05:06,827 --> 00:05:09,587 Speaker 3: can run, you have to walk. So it's also trying 86 00:05:09,627 --> 00:05:12,547 Speaker 3: to figure out, like what is the ideal placement of 87 00:05:12,627 --> 00:05:16,067 Speaker 3: the player, so that the player then moves vertically not laterally. 88 00:05:16,467 --> 00:05:19,547 Speaker 3: When I say laterally, if a player is not playing 89 00:05:19,547 --> 00:05:21,867 Speaker 3: in a team, the question is, you know, whether it's 90 00:05:21,867 --> 00:05:23,747 Speaker 3: the fault of the team and the coach or whether 91 00:05:23,827 --> 00:05:26,627 Speaker 3: it's the fault of the player. I believe that when 92 00:05:26,667 --> 00:05:29,907 Speaker 3: players don't play in teams that the player is lacking 93 00:05:29,907 --> 00:05:34,227 Speaker 3: a skill set. So that's you know, it's a group 94 00:05:34,267 --> 00:05:36,827 Speaker 3: of things. We look at patterns, we look at statistics, 95 00:05:37,227 --> 00:05:40,027 Speaker 3: and we see, you know, whether the player moving into 96 00:05:40,067 --> 00:05:43,627 Speaker 3: a new situation is going to have team success. And 97 00:05:43,707 --> 00:05:46,747 Speaker 3: I think that's the most important component. If we can 98 00:05:46,827 --> 00:05:50,587 Speaker 3: prove that thanks to the player's transition to that team, 99 00:05:50,627 --> 00:05:53,747 Speaker 3: the team has more success than that's a fantastic start 100 00:05:53,787 --> 00:05:54,307 Speaker 3: for everyone. 101 00:05:54,747 --> 00:05:57,867 Speaker 2: How do you find in general terms, the teams to 102 00:05:57,987 --> 00:05:58,467 Speaker 2: deal with? 103 00:06:01,027 --> 00:06:05,467 Speaker 3: So in an octagon, we have a very wide network 104 00:06:06,467 --> 00:06:10,187 Speaker 3: of directors in Europe. We have a lot of colleagues 105 00:06:10,187 --> 00:06:13,147 Speaker 3: and NBA agents in the United States, so we all 106 00:06:13,187 --> 00:06:16,627 Speaker 3: work together as a team. We share ideas, we share contacts. 107 00:06:18,107 --> 00:06:22,067 Speaker 3: One cannot be one cannot have excellent relationships with all teams. 108 00:06:22,507 --> 00:06:25,707 Speaker 3: So you know, we work in partnerships all across the board, 109 00:06:26,067 --> 00:06:28,947 Speaker 3: but there's always a designated agents of the player who's 110 00:06:28,987 --> 00:06:31,587 Speaker 3: the one you know, who consults with the player and 111 00:06:32,787 --> 00:06:35,427 Speaker 3: they really decide, you know, which way they want to go, 112 00:06:35,907 --> 00:06:39,467 Speaker 3: and then we employ the entire network to help us 113 00:06:39,707 --> 00:06:40,107 Speaker 3: buy that. 114 00:06:40,947 --> 00:06:44,427 Speaker 2: And when you're dealing with the teams themselves, what are 115 00:06:44,427 --> 00:06:48,547 Speaker 2: those dealings typically like? They are they business like? Can 116 00:06:48,587 --> 00:06:51,307 Speaker 2: I get you know, can there be some sticking points 117 00:06:51,307 --> 00:06:53,067 Speaker 2: when it comes to contracts that sort of thing? 118 00:06:54,067 --> 00:06:58,987 Speaker 3: Oh? Absolutely, But this is why I consider myself a 119 00:06:59,067 --> 00:07:03,787 Speaker 3: problem solver. So just by principle, just by principal, the 120 00:07:03,867 --> 00:07:07,307 Speaker 3: team is usually trying to sign, especially goes on in Europe, 121 00:07:07,387 --> 00:07:10,427 Speaker 3: for the longest amount of time and ideally for the 122 00:07:10,507 --> 00:07:13,747 Speaker 3: least amount of money. The agent's job is exactly the opposite, 123 00:07:13,787 --> 00:07:15,707 Speaker 3: so we try to go for the shortest amount of 124 00:07:15,747 --> 00:07:18,307 Speaker 3: time for the most amount of money. So that I 125 00:07:18,347 --> 00:07:20,987 Speaker 3: think is the reason that agents exist in the business, 126 00:07:21,427 --> 00:07:25,027 Speaker 3: because we're here to negotiate oversee the terms, make sure 127 00:07:25,027 --> 00:07:27,467 Speaker 3: that the money gets to the player, that the contracts 128 00:07:27,467 --> 00:07:30,347 Speaker 3: are fulfilled, and also at the same time to deal 129 00:07:30,387 --> 00:07:34,707 Speaker 3: with issues inside the team that can happen because one 130 00:07:34,747 --> 00:07:38,547 Speaker 3: thing is planning it, the second thing is actually reality. 131 00:07:38,787 --> 00:07:43,187 Speaker 3: So I would say each country, and I've been very fortunate. 132 00:07:43,427 --> 00:07:47,587 Speaker 3: I mean, I probably travel half of the year around 133 00:07:47,587 --> 00:07:52,467 Speaker 3: the globe, you know, meeting teams, talking with players. There's 134 00:07:52,547 --> 00:07:55,467 Speaker 3: a lot of cultural differences if you're dealing with teams 135 00:07:55,467 --> 00:07:58,147 Speaker 3: in Germany, in Japan, in the United States on the 136 00:07:58,147 --> 00:08:02,907 Speaker 3: West coast, east coast, but you just have to understand 137 00:08:02,907 --> 00:08:05,467 Speaker 3: a little bit of the culture, be respectful to the culture, 138 00:08:06,187 --> 00:08:08,827 Speaker 3: to the community where you're sending the player. And that's 139 00:08:08,867 --> 00:08:11,547 Speaker 3: how we try to ideally prepare you know, what we 140 00:08:11,627 --> 00:08:13,787 Speaker 3: call a good fit for the player when he gets 141 00:08:13,827 --> 00:08:17,907 Speaker 3: to the situation. Nothing is random, nothing is done without 142 00:08:17,947 --> 00:08:20,427 Speaker 3: a lot of work. I believe if you put in 143 00:08:20,467 --> 00:08:23,187 Speaker 3: the work in the preparation, then the result is going 144 00:08:23,227 --> 00:08:23,707 Speaker 3: to be better. 145 00:08:24,067 --> 00:08:26,907 Speaker 2: You mentioned the philip that ideally for the agent and 146 00:08:26,947 --> 00:08:29,747 Speaker 2: for the player, a shorter contract length so that you 147 00:08:29,747 --> 00:08:33,347 Speaker 2: can renegotiate or you know, as opposed to giving the 148 00:08:33,387 --> 00:08:35,707 Speaker 2: player some long term certainty. 149 00:08:36,707 --> 00:08:40,747 Speaker 3: I think, like everything in today's day and age is 150 00:08:40,787 --> 00:08:43,507 Speaker 3: becoming much faster. When I started being an agent, we 151 00:08:43,547 --> 00:08:48,547 Speaker 3: would send out vhs, the videotapes in the beginning. Then 152 00:08:48,587 --> 00:08:53,187 Speaker 3: we move into burning it out on CDs, and teams 153 00:08:53,227 --> 00:08:57,467 Speaker 3: would get probably four or five shoe boxes at the 154 00:08:57,547 --> 00:09:00,627 Speaker 3: end of the summer full of CDs, hundreds of CDs. 155 00:09:00,907 --> 00:09:02,787 Speaker 3: So it's kind of our job to make sure that 156 00:09:02,867 --> 00:09:06,107 Speaker 3: the team is looking at our players because we feel 157 00:09:06,147 --> 00:09:09,547 Speaker 3: that it's a good fit for the team. But in 158 00:09:09,627 --> 00:09:13,267 Speaker 3: today's world of digiti and everything is speeding up very much. 159 00:09:13,307 --> 00:09:16,467 Speaker 3: So I would also say that where we started twenty 160 00:09:16,547 --> 00:09:21,187 Speaker 3: years ago, there was more longevity. It wasn't as speeding 161 00:09:21,267 --> 00:09:24,067 Speaker 3: up as possible. And when I started twenty years ago, 162 00:09:24,107 --> 00:09:26,667 Speaker 3: if I would move a player to three teams in 163 00:09:26,747 --> 00:09:33,467 Speaker 3: three years, that would be considered bad. Whereas today that 164 00:09:33,467 --> 00:09:38,067 Speaker 3: that's that's that's more. That happens more than it used to. 165 00:09:38,267 --> 00:09:41,427 Speaker 3: Everything is speeding up, players are moving around, and you know, 166 00:09:41,507 --> 00:09:45,667 Speaker 3: thanks to some markets disappearing in new markets emerging, like 167 00:09:45,707 --> 00:09:49,427 Speaker 3: for example, Russia used to be a top top basketball 168 00:09:49,467 --> 00:09:53,587 Speaker 3: market with top EuroLeague teams, a lot of powerhouses. Right 169 00:09:53,627 --> 00:09:57,347 Speaker 3: now because of the conflict, that market has has closed down. 170 00:09:57,827 --> 00:10:01,467 Speaker 3: So as agents, we have to constantly react to changes 171 00:10:01,587 --> 00:10:05,907 Speaker 3: in the markets, geopolical changes in the markets, new regulations. 172 00:10:06,427 --> 00:10:08,947 Speaker 3: For example, what's happening right now in the United States 173 00:10:08,947 --> 00:10:09,947 Speaker 3: and college basketball. 174 00:10:10,587 --> 00:10:13,627 Speaker 2: Well, let's talk about the managing of pliers then and 175 00:10:13,907 --> 00:10:16,947 Speaker 2: the stuff that you mentioned before. It strikes me would 176 00:10:17,027 --> 00:10:20,707 Speaker 2: need to, you know, to rest on a Philly solid base. 177 00:10:20,827 --> 00:10:25,027 Speaker 2: In terms of a relationship between agent and player, how 178 00:10:25,187 --> 00:10:28,387 Speaker 2: long typically does it take to build that relationship and 179 00:10:28,427 --> 00:10:29,827 Speaker 2: how do you best go about it. 180 00:10:31,147 --> 00:10:35,267 Speaker 3: That's a great question, Jason, It's for me. I think 181 00:10:36,507 --> 00:10:38,627 Speaker 3: a lot of players think that the agent needs to 182 00:10:38,627 --> 00:10:42,867 Speaker 3: be their friend. I feel that friendship needs to be earned. 183 00:10:42,907 --> 00:10:44,387 Speaker 3: But at the end of the day, and this is 184 00:10:44,427 --> 00:10:49,067 Speaker 3: a professional relationship, the player needs to have his success 185 00:10:49,147 --> 00:10:51,587 Speaker 3: on the courts and the agent needs to do what 186 00:10:51,707 --> 00:10:54,947 Speaker 3: he pledged for the player. So at the end of 187 00:10:54,987 --> 00:10:57,667 Speaker 3: the day, the player is here and we're here to 188 00:10:57,707 --> 00:11:00,587 Speaker 3: grow his assets. We're here to ensure that he has 189 00:11:00,627 --> 00:11:04,227 Speaker 3: a successful career. So we're both professionals on each side. 190 00:11:04,827 --> 00:11:08,107 Speaker 3: But I would say that I'm proud of one thing. 191 00:11:08,507 --> 00:11:11,947 Speaker 3: I probably have one of the longest retention rates of 192 00:11:12,227 --> 00:11:16,907 Speaker 3: players in the business because I have me personally. I 193 00:11:16,947 --> 00:11:20,307 Speaker 3: surround them with a lot of professionals. Whereas every agent 194 00:11:20,427 --> 00:11:23,707 Speaker 3: has a different style. Some agents work by themselves. We 195 00:11:23,787 --> 00:11:27,547 Speaker 3: call them lone wolves. Some work in a group. So 196 00:11:27,627 --> 00:11:30,267 Speaker 3: I think it really comes up to the player what 197 00:11:30,347 --> 00:11:33,987 Speaker 3: he likes to do or you know, what he thinks 198 00:11:34,027 --> 00:11:36,867 Speaker 3: is the best for his career. But we start very early, 199 00:11:36,947 --> 00:11:40,747 Speaker 3: so when we start building relationships with players. One of 200 00:11:40,787 --> 00:11:43,267 Speaker 3: my players who's now in the Atlanta Hawks, we started 201 00:11:43,307 --> 00:11:45,467 Speaker 3: working with him when he was thirteen years old. So 202 00:11:46,067 --> 00:11:51,547 Speaker 3: you're resolving other issues when a player is fifteen, sixteen, 203 00:11:51,587 --> 00:11:54,227 Speaker 3: and it's different when he's twenty five, and it's different 204 00:11:54,227 --> 00:11:57,107 Speaker 3: when he's thirty five and we're preparing for post career planning. 205 00:11:57,187 --> 00:11:59,827 Speaker 3: So I would say that the age is a pretty 206 00:11:59,867 --> 00:12:03,027 Speaker 3: key determinant. Usually you know what we're solving with the 207 00:12:03,027 --> 00:12:05,707 Speaker 3: players as the player grows and evolves as a professional 208 00:12:05,707 --> 00:12:06,147 Speaker 3: and a human. 209 00:12:07,147 --> 00:12:10,587 Speaker 2: How do you typically acquire new clients. I'm sure they're 210 00:12:10,627 --> 00:12:15,347 Speaker 2: not all thirteen. How would you typically you know, build 211 00:12:15,587 --> 00:12:17,347 Speaker 2: or start a relationship with a new player. 212 00:12:18,707 --> 00:12:23,747 Speaker 3: So we have a very very good scouting system as 213 00:12:23,787 --> 00:12:27,227 Speaker 3: a part of our agency. So it's about identifying the 214 00:12:27,307 --> 00:12:31,787 Speaker 3: talent at an early age. The good agents they know 215 00:12:31,947 --> 00:12:34,787 Speaker 3: who the talents are, and then at the end of 216 00:12:34,827 --> 00:12:38,987 Speaker 3: the day, the player will get courted by a lot 217 00:12:38,987 --> 00:12:43,147 Speaker 3: of agencies and agents they interview the agents. Some of 218 00:12:43,187 --> 00:12:46,387 Speaker 3: them do it once and they disappear, and the ones 219 00:12:46,427 --> 00:12:49,467 Speaker 3: that stick around the players will see that they're very 220 00:12:49,507 --> 00:12:53,867 Speaker 3: interested in their careers. So I think over time, players see, 221 00:12:53,907 --> 00:12:57,387 Speaker 3: you know, who's really vetted into their careers and who isn't. 222 00:12:57,627 --> 00:13:01,627 Speaker 3: At the same time, Like in any business, players if 223 00:13:01,667 --> 00:13:06,627 Speaker 3: they're not satisfied, they will choose another agent. So you know, 224 00:13:06,987 --> 00:13:11,187 Speaker 3: players switch agents, agents switch players just depend on where 225 00:13:11,227 --> 00:13:14,787 Speaker 3: they are in the career. But I've been very, very fortunate, 226 00:13:14,867 --> 00:13:17,467 Speaker 3: you know, to be working with players who have entrusted 227 00:13:17,467 --> 00:13:20,587 Speaker 3: me with their careers, and I always make sure that 228 00:13:20,827 --> 00:13:24,707 Speaker 3: I'm on top of everything that they need. And I think, 229 00:13:24,747 --> 00:13:27,387 Speaker 3: you know, that's what has helped me, you know, grow 230 00:13:27,387 --> 00:13:28,067 Speaker 3: in this business. 231 00:13:28,187 --> 00:13:30,547 Speaker 2: I was really interested in what you said before about 232 00:13:30,547 --> 00:13:34,547 Speaker 2: friendship as opposed to a professional relationship. Surely working with 233 00:13:34,707 --> 00:13:38,267 Speaker 2: these players so closely, though, Philip, you must develop friendships 234 00:13:38,507 --> 00:13:42,987 Speaker 2: or do you intentionally keep them at arm's length if 235 00:13:42,987 --> 00:13:43,307 Speaker 2: you like? 236 00:13:45,387 --> 00:13:50,907 Speaker 3: I so again, when players ask me about this, I said, listen, 237 00:13:51,067 --> 00:13:56,307 Speaker 3: if your son has a life threatening heart operation coming up, 238 00:13:56,827 --> 00:13:59,147 Speaker 3: is it important for you to be friends with a 239 00:13:59,187 --> 00:14:01,027 Speaker 3: surgeon or are you going to look for the best 240 00:14:01,027 --> 00:14:04,427 Speaker 3: one in the world that's very proficient at his job. 241 00:14:04,787 --> 00:14:07,387 Speaker 3: It's a little bit of an unusual approach, but I 242 00:14:07,467 --> 00:14:11,187 Speaker 3: believe that mentions and being experts and being there when 243 00:14:11,187 --> 00:14:13,747 Speaker 3: the player needs you. But on the flip side, when 244 00:14:13,787 --> 00:14:16,667 Speaker 3: the player is successful, then we're all kind of doing 245 00:14:16,867 --> 00:14:19,627 Speaker 3: our jobs. So if we set them up well and 246 00:14:19,747 --> 00:14:22,907 Speaker 3: there's success coming his way, then for me, I also 247 00:14:22,987 --> 00:14:26,347 Speaker 3: take a lot of pride in mentoring the player, educating 248 00:14:26,387 --> 00:14:29,747 Speaker 3: the player, making the player understand how the world rolls, 249 00:14:29,787 --> 00:14:34,067 Speaker 3: how the business roles, how statistics will affect his future career, 250 00:14:34,547 --> 00:14:37,827 Speaker 3: because it's never anything personal. A lot of players have 251 00:14:37,867 --> 00:14:41,067 Speaker 3: a tendency to blame the coach early in their career 252 00:14:41,147 --> 00:14:43,987 Speaker 3: when they're not playing, but they forget to praise the 253 00:14:43,987 --> 00:14:46,667 Speaker 3: coach when the coach is playing him thirty minutes. So 254 00:14:46,707 --> 00:14:48,827 Speaker 3: I said, if we're going to move on both spectrums 255 00:14:48,827 --> 00:14:51,187 Speaker 3: of this, we should praise him when he's playing you 256 00:14:51,267 --> 00:14:54,187 Speaker 3: thirty minutes, but we shouldn't blame him when he's playing 257 00:14:54,227 --> 00:14:58,027 Speaker 3: you one. So again, that's the philosophy that I ride 258 00:14:58,067 --> 00:15:00,867 Speaker 3: with with my players, is to say, listen, if you're 259 00:15:00,907 --> 00:15:03,187 Speaker 3: going to be a successful player, you're going to switch 260 00:15:03,187 --> 00:15:06,107 Speaker 3: seven to eight coaches in your career if you don't 261 00:15:06,147 --> 00:15:09,427 Speaker 3: move a lot, that I would say is a very 262 00:15:09,507 --> 00:15:12,187 Speaker 3: low number. So if you're gonna if your career is 263 00:15:12,227 --> 00:15:16,107 Speaker 3: defined by the coach that you have or God forbid sympathies, 264 00:15:16,507 --> 00:15:18,707 Speaker 3: then I think you know, that's all we're going to 265 00:15:18,747 --> 00:15:21,347 Speaker 3: be solving, is whether the coach likes you or not. 266 00:15:21,547 --> 00:15:23,907 Speaker 3: But coach, all the coaches in the world are the same, 267 00:15:24,387 --> 00:15:26,987 Speaker 3: from the NBA down to the juniors. They want to 268 00:15:27,027 --> 00:15:29,587 Speaker 3: win those games on the weekends, and I believe they 269 00:15:29,587 --> 00:15:32,707 Speaker 3: will always play with the ones who will help them 270 00:15:33,027 --> 00:15:35,747 Speaker 3: win that and that's the golden rule of the sports 271 00:15:35,747 --> 00:15:39,667 Speaker 3: and players who understand this, then they will have successful 272 00:15:39,707 --> 00:15:43,547 Speaker 3: careers instead of trying to use the blame game. 273 00:15:44,667 --> 00:15:49,347 Speaker 2: It's the business of sports agency sports management at times 274 00:15:49,707 --> 00:15:52,547 Speaker 2: pretty cut throat, at times even brutal. 275 00:15:54,227 --> 00:15:58,747 Speaker 3: I would say, in any business, it's like this. If 276 00:15:58,787 --> 00:16:01,987 Speaker 3: you're if you're in top finance, if you're a top surgeon, 277 00:16:02,467 --> 00:16:04,867 Speaker 3: and you're surrounded with a lot of talent, and you 278 00:16:04,947 --> 00:16:07,787 Speaker 3: have to work really hard, you have to keep educating yourself. 279 00:16:07,867 --> 00:16:11,907 Speaker 3: So I believe in in in in any business, you 280 00:16:12,067 --> 00:16:16,187 Speaker 3: have the stars in those businesses because they work hard, 281 00:16:17,187 --> 00:16:20,427 Speaker 3: which I think is the key derivative and hopefully you know, 282 00:16:20,507 --> 00:16:22,787 Speaker 3: have some talents on the way. That's always what I 283 00:16:22,827 --> 00:16:25,747 Speaker 3: tell the players. I look for high character guys. I 284 00:16:25,787 --> 00:16:30,867 Speaker 3: look for guys that that work off the charts and 285 00:16:32,027 --> 00:16:35,227 Speaker 3: you know, hopefully that have some talent. Just talents itself 286 00:16:35,307 --> 00:16:37,707 Speaker 3: isn't going to get you anywhere. You really have to 287 00:16:37,747 --> 00:16:41,147 Speaker 3: become in a good way, in a good sense, a psycho, 288 00:16:41,467 --> 00:16:43,587 Speaker 3: and you just have to want to prove that you 289 00:16:43,667 --> 00:16:46,987 Speaker 3: want to be the best in the world in your field. 290 00:16:47,427 --> 00:16:50,827 Speaker 3: And once you get that sort of a mentality, then 291 00:16:50,867 --> 00:16:52,667 Speaker 3: I think you know that success is insured. 292 00:16:53,547 --> 00:16:55,587 Speaker 2: They often say, and it's a phrase I've heard the 293 00:16:55,587 --> 00:16:58,547 Speaker 2: all blacks shoes, but I'm sure it's universal that that 294 00:16:58,667 --> 00:17:01,427 Speaker 2: good people might good all blacks. Good people might good 295 00:17:01,467 --> 00:17:05,547 Speaker 2: sports people. Is that your experience that that a good 296 00:17:05,667 --> 00:17:09,747 Speaker 2: person is more likely to be successful in their sporting career. 297 00:17:11,067 --> 00:17:15,147 Speaker 3: I would agree with you, but we have to have 298 00:17:15,187 --> 00:17:20,227 Speaker 3: a definition of good. What I have seen as one 299 00:17:20,267 --> 00:17:24,347 Speaker 3: of the common traits of the most successful players that 300 00:17:24,387 --> 00:17:28,067 Speaker 3: I've had the opportunity to work with, they want to 301 00:17:28,147 --> 00:17:30,747 Speaker 3: prove that they're the best players on their position in 302 00:17:30,787 --> 00:17:33,707 Speaker 3: the world. They don't care about money, they don't care 303 00:17:33,867 --> 00:17:38,667 Speaker 3: about awards. They care about being the best definition of 304 00:17:38,707 --> 00:17:42,427 Speaker 3: the player that they can become. And inadvertently, these players 305 00:17:42,747 --> 00:17:46,267 Speaker 3: they also put in the most work. So it's like 306 00:17:46,307 --> 00:17:49,147 Speaker 3: the tip of the iceberg. People see that they're playing 307 00:17:49,187 --> 00:17:51,707 Speaker 3: in the NBA, they're playing in the EuroLeague, they are 308 00:17:51,707 --> 00:17:54,507 Speaker 3: playing for the national team. What a lot of people 309 00:17:54,547 --> 00:17:58,067 Speaker 3: don't see is the amount of work that goes into 310 00:17:58,667 --> 00:18:02,827 Speaker 3: attaining that position and holding on to it, because if 311 00:18:02,867 --> 00:18:05,907 Speaker 3: you think you know all of the limited roster spaces 312 00:18:05,987 --> 00:18:09,587 Speaker 3: in the NBA, it's a true feat for a player 313 00:18:09,667 --> 00:18:11,507 Speaker 3: to get there, and I think it's one of the 314 00:18:11,547 --> 00:18:15,227 Speaker 3: hardest things that an athlete can do in our sports 315 00:18:15,787 --> 00:18:18,107 Speaker 3: is to get to the top of that pyramid. One 316 00:18:18,107 --> 00:18:20,747 Speaker 3: thing is getting there, the second one is staying there. 317 00:18:20,867 --> 00:18:23,947 Speaker 3: So there's a different there's a different cycle, it's a 318 00:18:23,947 --> 00:18:26,987 Speaker 3: different culture, and a lot of players have a hard 319 00:18:27,067 --> 00:18:31,947 Speaker 3: time adjusting and understanding what is expected of them. And 320 00:18:32,027 --> 00:18:35,507 Speaker 3: that's where I take a lot of pride as as 321 00:18:35,587 --> 00:18:38,747 Speaker 3: a as a as a check and as a Kiwi 322 00:18:39,107 --> 00:18:41,947 Speaker 3: to be able to explain to them what are the 323 00:18:42,027 --> 00:18:44,667 Speaker 3: rules of engagement and what they have to be prepared 324 00:18:44,707 --> 00:18:46,787 Speaker 3: for for their first preseason practice. 325 00:18:47,347 --> 00:18:50,627 Speaker 2: Philip, that's been deeply interesting listening to you talk about 326 00:18:50,667 --> 00:18:53,027 Speaker 2: your life, your career. I can see why you've been 327 00:18:53,467 --> 00:18:56,347 Speaker 2: so successful. Just before you go, how's Dad getting on? 328 00:18:57,147 --> 00:18:59,627 Speaker 2: I started the chat talking about talking about on a y. 329 00:18:59,987 --> 00:19:00,747 Speaker 2: How's it getting on? 330 00:19:01,427 --> 00:19:06,107 Speaker 3: This is? This is It's been great. You know, in tennis, 331 00:19:06,547 --> 00:19:09,027 Speaker 3: when I was growing up, I was always known as 332 00:19:09,067 --> 00:19:12,307 Speaker 3: only Son. I thought that was my name, and I 333 00:19:12,387 --> 00:19:15,507 Speaker 3: never realized, you know, what it's like to live, you know, 334 00:19:15,627 --> 00:19:19,067 Speaker 3: with a great athlete and a great tennis player and 335 00:19:19,107 --> 00:19:23,507 Speaker 3: above all a great human being. So you know, it's 336 00:19:23,507 --> 00:19:26,387 Speaker 3: been fantastic for me to come back after all of 337 00:19:26,427 --> 00:19:29,467 Speaker 3: these years to New Zealand. I really cherish it. I 338 00:19:29,547 --> 00:19:33,547 Speaker 3: embrace it. It's been a part of my heritage and 339 00:19:33,827 --> 00:19:36,587 Speaker 3: you know, as Dad gets older, we celebrated his birthday 340 00:19:37,147 --> 00:19:40,027 Speaker 3: this week. My brother flew in from Asia, so we 341 00:19:40,107 --> 00:19:42,787 Speaker 3: both traveled about twenty three hours to come and see him. 342 00:19:42,827 --> 00:19:46,347 Speaker 3: And it's just been a week full of laughs, memories, 343 00:19:46,627 --> 00:19:50,707 Speaker 3: going over pictures and really enjoy you know, spending time 344 00:19:50,747 --> 00:19:53,387 Speaker 3: with him. And like he told me in the past, 345 00:19:54,307 --> 00:19:57,347 Speaker 3: when I was playing tennis, he saw my backhand, which 346 00:19:57,387 --> 00:19:59,867 Speaker 3: I thought was pretty good, but he kissed me on 347 00:19:59,907 --> 00:20:03,107 Speaker 3: my forehead and he said, son, choose another sports. So 348 00:20:03,227 --> 00:20:05,587 Speaker 3: that was the beginning of my basketball career. 349 00:20:07,387 --> 00:20:11,267 Speaker 2: Oh, honesty is often the best policy. As they say, Philip, again, 350 00:20:11,387 --> 00:20:12,947 Speaker 2: thank you so much for taking time out of you 351 00:20:13,227 --> 00:20:15,347 Speaker 2: stay here in New Zealand to join us. Our listeners 352 00:20:15,347 --> 00:20:17,587 Speaker 2: remember your dad fondly and I'm sure they will have 353 00:20:18,187 --> 00:20:20,147 Speaker 2: enjoyed listening to you as well. Enjoy the rest of 354 00:20:20,147 --> 00:20:22,227 Speaker 2: you stay and all the best for what lies ahead 355 00:20:22,227 --> 00:20:22,427 Speaker 2: for you. 356 00:20:23,347 --> 00:20:25,507 Speaker 3: Thank you very much, Jason, and thank you very much 357 00:20:25,547 --> 00:20:26,467 Speaker 3: for having me today. 358 00:20:26,547 --> 00:20:29,867 Speaker 2: No, thank you for joining us, Philip. Really really interesting 359 00:20:29,947 --> 00:20:33,227 Speaker 2: chat Philip paren Son of Honi paren But not just 360 00:20:33,267 --> 00:20:35,907 Speaker 2: on his son. He's blazing his own trail as senior 361 00:20:35,947 --> 00:20:40,787 Speaker 2: director of Global Operations with leading global agency Octagon. Great 362 00:20:40,787 --> 00:20:42,907 Speaker 2: to get the chance to chat to Philip. 363 00:20:42,787 --> 00:20:46,667 Speaker 1: Paren For more from Weekend Sport with Jason Fine. Listen 364 00:20:46,747 --> 00:20:49,987 Speaker 1: live to News Talk zed B weekends from midday or 365 00:20:50,067 --> 00:20:52,027 Speaker 1: follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.