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Speaker 1: Tricius and Shus and Willis pr Is with us tonight.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 1: Trish, Hello, and Josie Pegani's CEO of Child Fund here too. Hi, Josie,

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Speaker 1: good to have you both on. Interesting Trish, to hear

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Speaker 1: the commissioner. They talk about the fact that how this thing's.

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Speaker 3: Working sounds like it doesn't it, So it's interesting. It's

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Speaker 3: one of those things. I was listening to it on

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Speaker 3: the way to work this morning and thinking, you know,

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Speaker 3: it's a bit like in New York where they did

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Speaker 3: the broken windows focus. Remember when New York needed to

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Speaker 3: clean up and they really focused on the small stuff.

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Speaker 3: And I think that's probably the strategy that the police

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Speaker 3: are trying to employ here, to really let the gangs

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Speaker 3: know that they are watching them all the time. They

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Speaker 3: won't be able to even put a toe over the line,

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Speaker 3: and they've gone after what is pretty symbolic and important

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Speaker 3: to the gangs, which is their patches. You know, there

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Speaker 3: were a lot of naysayers around this, you know, when

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Speaker 3: the policy was announced, but it feels like it's got

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Speaker 3: momentum and momentum in the right direction.

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Speaker 1: Josie, let's talk defense, because will come to Andrew Bailey

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Speaker 1: after the break because I think Andrew Bailey is less important.

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Speaker 1: But defense, in defense, about defense, defense is quite yeah,

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Speaker 1: in defense, defense is quite important. Trying to get to

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Speaker 1: two percent of GDP, it's a hell of a lot

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Speaker 1: of money that we're going to have to put in.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure many, many, many budgets.

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Speaker 2: It's about ten billion in total, right, and you think

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Speaker 2: that's a lot of hospitals, a lot of schools, a

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Speaker 2: lot of roads, a lot of cycle ways, whatever you

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Speaker 2: want to spend that money on. There is a trade off.

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Speaker 2: But the truth is, when I look at it, Ryan,

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Speaker 2: the only frigate that we've sunk in the last fifty

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Speaker 2: years in our own So you know, we're not really

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Speaker 2: in a very good position to defend ourselves. And we

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Speaker 2: have to, I think, face the fact that there is

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Speaker 2: a new era beginning. We're in totally new territory here.

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Speaker 2: We cannot rely on our old alliance, our old Second

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Speaker 2: World War alliance of the US. It's you know, back

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Speaker 2: to Miter's run the big countries, carving up the little

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Speaker 2: countries between them. So we do have to think strategically.

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Speaker 2: And I know that a lot of our defense force

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Speaker 2: in it, and you know a lot of debate has

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Speaker 2: gone on for a long time, right, not just this government,

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Speaker 2: but before. I think the approach has to be a

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Speaker 2: little bit like our approach to trade in the sense

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Speaker 2: that we need multiple different alliances. Right. We have to

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Speaker 2: be really careful I think of not suddenly shackling ourselves

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Speaker 2: to a very volatile US administration at the moment. Whatever

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Speaker 2: your politics, it's certainly volatile right now. So August two,

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Speaker 2: I don't think still, I don't think is a good

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Speaker 2: idea for US. They are our natural allies, you know,

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Speaker 2: the USC, UK, Europe obviously, but there are other you know,

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Speaker 2: We're a good partner to NATO. NATO is one of

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Speaker 2: the most successful military fuses out there.

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Speaker 1: I mean it's interesting because I think if you go

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Speaker 1: back to ANSAs that we got the boot from because

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Speaker 1: we wouldn't let the nuclear powered warships come into our harbors.

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Speaker 1: If we're talking about doubling defense spending trash to ten

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Speaker 1: billion dollars, surely we would look at that as a

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Speaker 1: way to curry favor with the US.

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Speaker 3: Well, there have to be some trade offs, I think.

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Speaker 3: The interesting thing. The interesting question for New Zealand though,

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Speaker 3: is did we misread this twenty five years ago, because

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Speaker 3: I went back today and had a look at the

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Speaker 3: time when we were debating whether or not we should

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Speaker 3: have a jet fighter force for our air force, remember

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Speaker 3: that when we got rid of the Skyhawks. And then

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Speaker 3: there was a statement there from Phil Goff from the

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Speaker 3: Labor Party at the time, and he said, you know,

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Speaker 3: what we are focused on primarily is that it is

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Speaker 3: a priority for New Zealand to have peacekeeping as the

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Speaker 3: focus of deployment of our armed forces. And you think

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Speaker 3: about how we've shaped our defense forces over that last

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Speaker 3: twenty five years, it has been all about a peacekeeping role.

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Speaker 3: And to Josie's point, you know, no one could have

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Speaker 3: looked in the crystal ball and seen Trump coming. But

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Speaker 3: we can no longer count on the United States, and

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Speaker 3: in fact, we are going to have to try and

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Speaker 3: chart a very interesting defense policy without the United United

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Speaker 3: States as a sort of a core pillar that we

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Speaker 3: can count on.

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Speaker 2: And oh, yes, sorry, carry on, No, I.

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Speaker 3: Was just going to I was just going to say that,

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Speaker 3: you know, in my view, it is no accident that

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Speaker 3: the Chinese are now flexing there this image of their

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Speaker 3: muscle paces that they would never have done before. Totally

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Speaker 3: get that it's it's you know, they apparently not doing

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Speaker 3: anything outside the law, but the timing of that is interesting.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, quick comments on that. You're right that we need

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Speaker 2: to do multiple things right, It's not just increase our

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Speaker 2: defense spending. If you look at the Cook Islands and

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Speaker 2: their new relationship with China, which is worried that Jesus

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Speaker 2: out of our government and everybody else, the the response

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Speaker 2: to that is never going to be more defense spending.

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Speaker 2: It's going to be, well, why don't we spend the

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Speaker 2: money on helping the Cook Islands build a deep sea

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Speaker 2: port and looking at their mineral extraction or whatever. So

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Speaker 2: there has to be an increase in support for the Pacific.

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Speaker 2: That might be an increase in a budget. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I'm saying that as an aid agency, but

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Speaker 2: you have to look at more.

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Speaker 1: Than just you can't just look at defense. And I

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Speaker 1: think everybody would acknowledge that point. You would the news

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Speaker 1: talk said b Trish Shuson and Josie b BEGANI on the

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Speaker 1: huddle tonight. We'll be back in just a second to

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Speaker 1: talk about Andrew Bailey, Tris Shuson, Huson, Willis pr Josie

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Speaker 1: Bigani's CEO of child fun on the huddle tonight, welcome back.

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Speaker 1: So when is an argument actually just an animated discussion?

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Speaker 1: And when you touch somebody on the shoulder are you

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Speaker 1: shoving them? I mean, these are the questions we're asking,

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Speaker 1: but we have no answers on the Andrew Bailey saga. Trish,

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Speaker 1: what is your reading of this? Just briefly? Do you

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Speaker 1: is this like he had one booboo, second booboo means

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Speaker 1: go time? Or do you think this is like a

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Speaker 1: serious thing.

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Speaker 2: Booboo sounds even more weirder. Okay, I'm definitely out.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, a booboo or a gaff I think, I mean,

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Speaker 3: and that's the one thing about Bailey. I think this

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Speaker 3: is probably why he resigned before he was pushed. I

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Speaker 3: think after the Marlborough wine issue last year he probably

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Speaker 3: didn't have the support of the Prime Minister to back

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Speaker 3: him a second time. And I read a great comment

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Speaker 3: actually from Patrick Smelly this afternoon which I thought summed

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Speaker 3: up Andrew Bailey. You know, one of those guys successful

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Speaker 3: in business but not a very good professional politician. You know,

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Speaker 3: has struggled to communicate clearly, has been a bit gaff prone,

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Speaker 3: has sort of had a way about him that you know,

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Speaker 3: at events can kind of you know, make people feel

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Speaker 3: that you know, he's trying to be a bit of

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Speaker 3: a David Brent. So I think that, you know, he

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Speaker 3: probably just didn't have the backing of the Prime Minister.

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Speaker 3: You know, Luxeon probably didn't want to burn political capital

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Speaker 3: a second time round to rescue him.

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Speaker 1: Would you bother?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean Patrick Smellie's piece was really good actually

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Speaker 2: because he pointed out he's done some good stuff Andrew Bailey.

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Speaker 2: He's helped to open the door to more New Zealand

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Speaker 2: investment in Kiwi Savor, he's tried to kind of go

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Speaker 2: for the growth growth growth mantra by removing regulations and

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Speaker 2: so on. So he's probably been quite you know, useful

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Speaker 2: for Luxeon. But yeah, I think you're right, this is

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Speaker 2: just you know, two strikes and you're out that. The

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Speaker 2: weird thing is that when they would do better to

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Speaker 2: tell us what actually happened, because I don't quite believe

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Speaker 2: animated discussion. I mean, you know that's a good night out,

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Speaker 2: isn't it that that's what we're having now on the huddle.

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Speaker 2: And I'm not asking you to resign, No, So we is.

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Speaker 1: This one of those things though, where that you know

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Speaker 1: there'll be people and our animated discussion Josie.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you're reaching out to me, is if you're going

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Speaker 2: to touch me on the upper arm to just watch it, right.

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Speaker 1: I can see you trembling. But that an animated discussion

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Speaker 1: to us might be to one of the producers out here,

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Speaker 1: the little woke trembling ones, it might be something quite different,

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Speaker 1: do you know what I mean? So, is that one

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Speaker 1: of these cases.

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Speaker 2: One man's one man's woke trembling is another man's animated

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Speaker 2: discussion at the point.

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Speaker 1: One man is touching the upper arm is another man's shoveling.

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Speaker 2: If I could tell you how many people I've hugged

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Speaker 2: today at.

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Speaker 1: Work, I would be you'd be arrested.

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Speaker 3: Personal grievance, well, or the other thing it may be.

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Speaker 3: And this could be a positive thing that the bar

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Speaker 3: may have started to squeak up in terms of actually

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Speaker 3: what is acceptable in terms of parliamentary behavior. I mean,

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Speaker 3: Josie and I both worked in parliament as as young woman,

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Speaker 3: and you know sometimes you would leave offices not only

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Speaker 3: you know, having been sort of verbally shredded limb from limb,

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Speaker 3: but you know there might have been a touch or

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Speaker 3: two on the upper arm on the water through, but

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Speaker 3: I think said, I think, I think the I think

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Speaker 3: the bar is now much higher and people are much

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Speaker 3: more sensitive to it.

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Speaker 1: This is true, right, Let's move on to VIEWSA. This

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Speaker 1: is the Victoria University Students Association. Why don't you think

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Speaker 1: owner bar on the campus. So the hypocrisy knows no bounds.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, they complained because a bar from outside campus

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Speaker 1: came in handed out flyers offering a discount for alcohol

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Speaker 1: the students on O week and apparently the Students Association

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Speaker 1: has got a problem with this. Does this just sound

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Speaker 1: a bit mad to you, Joseph.

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Speaker 2: I'm just looking forward to the government breaking up the

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Speaker 2: monopoly of the student union bar. You know this, I mean,

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Speaker 2: clearly this is just a competition thing. Obviously you're going

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Speaker 2: to be promoting fun nights out in OH week to students.

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Speaker 2: This is this is weird.

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Speaker 1: And to think, Trish that the council is now involved.

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Speaker 3: Oh well, this just confirms Wellington's reputation is a city

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Speaker 3: of damp, woolen disappointment. I mean, it's a kind of

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Speaker 3: helicopter parenting that's slowly shutting Wellington Down and Victoria. Let's

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Speaker 3: remember is really struggling to attract students. I just thought

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Speaker 3: the comment from the student union leader in his complaint

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Speaker 3: that students were vulnerable to targeting by bars and at

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Speaker 3: risk of alcohol related harm by being in premises quote

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Speaker 3: with minimal pastoral and safety services. I had never been

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Speaker 3: to a bar in my life and ordered some pastoral services.

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Speaker 3: If I wanted that, I would whip down to the

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Speaker 3: local Methodist church.

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Speaker 1: Very good, well said, Thanks guys, Joseph Beganni Trish Jarson

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Speaker 1: on the Huddle. You're on News Talk SIDB for more

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Speaker 1: said B from four pm weekdays, or follow the podcast

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Speaker 1: on iHeartRadio