1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,520 Speaker 1: Ti dot Com is back in the news and it 2 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: looks like this time he may be on his way 3 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:08,760 Speaker 1: to the United States extradited. Justice Minister Paul Goldsmith has 4 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: signed the order for him to leave. Does that mean 5 00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: he'll actually go? Dot Com made his fortune from file 6 00:00:16,000 --> 00:00:18,680 Speaker 1: sharing website mega Upload, which was often used to share 7 00:00:18,800 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 1: pirated movies and movies and music. He moved to New 8 00:00:22,760 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 1: Zealand in twenty ten and was pursued by the US government. 9 00:00:25,960 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: Bill Hodgs, former Auckland University law professor Bill good Morning. 10 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:30,920 Speaker 2: Good morning to you. 11 00:00:31,440 --> 00:00:34,480 Speaker 1: Is this actually going to happen? Because we've been told 12 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:36,120 Speaker 1: for twelve years now that it is. 13 00:00:37,520 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 2: There has always been until now another appeal. He's gone 14 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:44,680 Speaker 2: through the District Court, he's gone through the High Court, 15 00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,040 Speaker 2: he's gone through the Court of Appeal, he's gone through 16 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 2: the Supreme Court. He can't go to the Privy Council. 17 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 2: That's one option that he doesn't have. But yes, there 18 00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,920 Speaker 2: is one more step. I'll call it an ultimate step, 19 00:00:57,360 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 2: but it's not an appeal. You use the word appeal 20 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:03,000 Speaker 2: to go from one court to the higher court. But 21 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,720 Speaker 2: this has been an executive decision. This is a decision 22 00:01:06,760 --> 00:01:10,720 Speaker 2: of the Minister final ticking of the box. And when 23 00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 2: you challenge an appeal, challenge a decision of an executive 24 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:21,039 Speaker 2: the minister, that's called a review. So he will be 25 00:01:21,120 --> 00:01:24,560 Speaker 2: going to the High Court for judicial review of the 26 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:29,920 Speaker 2: minister's decision. And it has to be not outrageously irrational 27 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 2: and unreasonable. And the Minister is going to be looking 28 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:36,840 Speaker 2: at the terms in the statute, and well the court 29 00:01:36,920 --> 00:01:38,880 Speaker 2: will be looking at his looking at it. They'll be 30 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 2: looking over his shoulder. And is dot Com going to 31 00:01:43,040 --> 00:01:46,080 Speaker 2: be subject to the death penalty over there? No? Is 32 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,000 Speaker 2: he going to be tortured over there? No? Is he 33 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,880 Speaker 2: being persecuted because of his religion, because of his nationality, 34 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:57,000 Speaker 2: because of his gender. No. Ultimately it comes down to 35 00:01:57,120 --> 00:02:04,360 Speaker 2: this question for the minister, are there compelling or extraordinary circumstances, 36 00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:08,280 Speaker 2: including age and health age or health, that would make 37 00:02:08,320 --> 00:02:12,720 Speaker 2: it unjust or oppressive to surrender Kim dot Com to 38 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:17,240 Speaker 2: the Americans? That is the test that Goldsmith, Minister Goldsmith 39 00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 2: applied and a court will look over his shoulder and 40 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 2: say was that a reasonable decision? 41 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,079 Speaker 1: So, in other words, Kim dot Com has one life lift, 42 00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: but it's not looking good for him. How long could 43 00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,440 Speaker 1: that take? And you know when could we actually see 44 00:02:32,520 --> 00:02:33,279 Speaker 1: him extradited. 45 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,280 Speaker 2: As long as a piece of strength, I have been 46 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 2: surprised repeatedly about how long it took. Ideally, if it 47 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:47,040 Speaker 2: was a typical judicial review, it could be done within 48 00:02:47,200 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 2: six months. I'm wondering if the court will expedite it. 49 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 2: I don't know. I'd like to be precise, but I 50 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:59,680 Speaker 2: just can't. But can I say that this matter of 51 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 2: I don't know what a state of health is and 52 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,320 Speaker 2: I don't know how they're going to look at his family. 53 00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:08,079 Speaker 2: But if I were him, I'd be saying, look, I've 54 00:03:08,080 --> 00:03:11,000 Speaker 2: got this enormous family. I've got four children by Mona, 55 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 2: I've got another new child with Elizabeth. You don't want 56 00:03:14,200 --> 00:03:16,920 Speaker 2: those children to be thrown onto the mercies of the 57 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:19,519 Speaker 2: Department of Social Welfare and be a burden on the 58 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,280 Speaker 2: people of New Zealand. I have to stay here because 59 00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 2: of my family. I think that would be the biggest 60 00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 2: argument that he's put down not only roots, but he's 61 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:29,680 Speaker 2: put down children here. 62 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:32,200 Speaker 1: M Bill, thank you so much for that analysis. Bill Hodge, 63 00:03:32,200 --> 00:03:35,040 Speaker 1: former Orcan University law professor, talking about Kim dot Com, 64 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:38,680 Speaker 1: who Paul Goldsmith has signed his extradition order to get 65 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: him to the United States to face trial over those 66 00:03:42,520 --> 00:03:44,240 Speaker 1: file sharing website claims. 67 00:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: For more from News Talks B, listen live on air 68 00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 2: or online, and keep our shows with you wherever you 69 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:53,320 Speaker 2: go with our podcasts on iHeartRadio.