1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:01,800 Speaker 1: On the huddle of with me this evening. Trisherson of 2 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:04,560 Speaker 1: Sherston willis pr Mark Sainsbury Broadcaster. Hello are you too? 3 00:00:04,640 --> 00:00:07,600 Speaker 1: Hello Heather saying, so. 4 00:00:08,680 --> 00:00:09,320 Speaker 2: How's it going? 5 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:10,280 Speaker 1: You good? And you? 6 00:00:11,160 --> 00:00:13,120 Speaker 2: I thought you two would be down here on the heckoy. 7 00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: Oh are you going? 8 00:00:15,120 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 2: I'm going to go along and going to have a look? 9 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:17,680 Speaker 3: Yeah? 10 00:00:17,720 --> 00:00:19,520 Speaker 1: Are you going to? Are you going to look? Or 11 00:00:19,560 --> 00:00:21,400 Speaker 1: are you going to be wearing your red blacks and 12 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:23,480 Speaker 1: white and you're actually going to join the heckoy? 13 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 2: Well, no, it's funny. 14 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 3: We're having a bit of a discussion about that as 15 00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:32,520 Speaker 3: to I'm going down to heaven you sort of. I'm 16 00:00:32,520 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 3: not a sort of a full time journalist. I always 17 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:36,800 Speaker 3: thought it was inappropriate to get involved in any political 18 00:00:36,800 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 3: activity if you're a working journalist. I just don't think 19 00:00:39,560 --> 00:00:43,559 Speaker 3: it's it doesn't work, you know. Yes, I think it's 20 00:00:43,560 --> 00:00:45,199 Speaker 3: a big but it's a bit I'm going to sort 21 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:47,360 Speaker 3: of a slightly different situation. But I've got quite a 22 00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,480 Speaker 3: bit of sympathy for the for the heckory. Yeah, luck 23 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:56,760 Speaker 3: me in with Dane, Jenny and and and the others. 24 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:58,240 Speaker 1: What don't you like about the treaty? 25 00:00:58,240 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: Probably? I thought, look, I just think the whole thing. 26 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 2: It's it's unnecessary and divisit Why is my issue? Okay? 27 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,480 Speaker 3: I mean I think there's a good there was a 28 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 3: good point made over the weekend. I mean, it wouldn't 29 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,040 Speaker 3: have happened under John keyes watch. You know, he would 30 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:15,120 Speaker 3: have been too smart for that, because right from the 31 00:01:15,120 --> 00:01:18,600 Speaker 3: start you had Luxon saying, look, I don't support this, 32 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:20,360 Speaker 3: We're not going to vote past the second reading. 33 00:01:20,480 --> 00:01:24,479 Speaker 2: But they cocked all the damage. In any case, you. 34 00:01:24,440 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 1: Know, this is such a rookie move from the nets. 35 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: It's unreal. What do you think, Trish about these journals 36 00:01:30,080 --> 00:01:33,040 Speaker 1: going out? And and the important thing about these journals 37 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:36,520 Speaker 1: and editorial staff. We are talking about people who work 38 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,759 Speaker 1: for ring ZED and TV and Z the two state 39 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:41,360 Speaker 1: owned broadcaster is one of them funded by the state, 40 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,600 Speaker 1: both of which say that they are neutral and unbiased. 41 00:01:44,840 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: That's really important, it is. 42 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:52,360 Speaker 4: But I think from an employment perspective, it's very difficult 43 00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:55,320 Speaker 4: for those organizations to say in your private time, you 44 00:01:55,360 --> 00:01:58,640 Speaker 4: can't you don't have the right to protest like anyone else. 45 00:01:58,600 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: I mean posting it on social media. They probably need 46 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: to have quite clear guidelines about that, don't they, so 47 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 1: they can ping these guys when they do. 48 00:02:05,360 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 4: It well, even then I think that's difficult. I mean, 49 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:10,880 Speaker 4: my view about it is that it comes down to 50 00:02:10,960 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 4: the individual journalist at their view. I think it's interesting, 51 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:17,720 Speaker 4: as Mark just said, you know, there have been a 52 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 4: lot of journalists along the way who just were very 53 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:25,000 Speaker 4: careful around this kind of stuff. But times have changed. 54 00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:30,160 Speaker 4: But I do think that what we have seen over 55 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:34,399 Speaker 4: the weekend is a continuation of what's become a very 56 00:02:34,600 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 4: unedifying debate around the whole issue of the Treaty Principals Bill. 57 00:02:40,040 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 4: And you know, I've had to eat my hat on 58 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 4: the show recently for bad predictions, but this is one 59 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:47,760 Speaker 4: I have got right from the start. I said, well, 60 00:02:47,840 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 4: David Seymour might want a high minded, intellectual discussion around this. 61 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:54,200 Speaker 4: This was never going to be the way that it 62 00:02:55,040 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 4: rolled down. I actually agree with Chris Finlayson's his sort 63 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 4: of line and length on this and his commentary around it. 64 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:06,320 Speaker 4: I think we're right, and it does make me sort 65 00:03:06,360 --> 00:03:11,400 Speaker 4: of again feel concern for the political leadership we have 66 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 4: at the moment trying to deal with this. You know, 67 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 4: on the one hand, you've got act and at the 68 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:18,960 Speaker 4: other end of the spectrum you've got to Party Maori 69 00:03:19,120 --> 00:03:23,880 Speaker 4: and they are really operating on around this issue in 70 00:03:23,919 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 4: a way that is illustrative of where we've got to 71 00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:28,119 Speaker 4: in the social media. 72 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 1: Guy coming from I don't want to use the word 73 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 1: extreme because then it makes it sound like that it 74 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,000 Speaker 1: sort of deplatforms them to some extent. But they're coming 75 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 1: from the far ends of the discussion. 76 00:03:40,560 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 4: They are. And it's interesting that at the time Active 77 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,600 Speaker 4: brought this Treaty Principles Bill to Parliament, you've got, you know, 78 00:03:47,040 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 4: these kind of mirrors on the spectrum like it. 79 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: So it's sort of the. 80 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,080 Speaker 4: Right time to have to Party Maori and in a 81 00:03:53,120 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 4: funny way to kick against this from Act. Just think 82 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:58,800 Speaker 4: back in history though, and I think this is interesting 83 00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:01,520 Speaker 4: that where this is between National Act and I was 84 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 4: thinking about it, Mike. You might remember better than me, 85 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 4: but you know, back in the sort of ninety six 86 00:04:07,480 --> 00:04:10,680 Speaker 4: ninety seven when Act first came to Parliament, one of 87 00:04:10,680 --> 00:04:13,720 Speaker 4: the first things that Act put up was time limits 88 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,599 Speaker 4: on treaty settlements. Big who are at the time, but 89 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,200 Speaker 4: National adopted it and got on with it and a 90 00:04:19,200 --> 00:04:22,440 Speaker 4: lot of the settlements were done because of that. This 91 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 4: time around from National they are going absolutely nowhere near this, 92 00:04:26,880 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 4: and I think it's the right thing to do. And actually, 93 00:04:29,360 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 4: when I was this morning listening to Hoskins Show and 94 00:04:33,440 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 4: I heard the interview with Seymour and I heard his 95 00:04:36,120 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 4: comment about Jenny Shipley, and I actually thought it did 96 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 4: David a real disservice. You know, if he wants to 97 00:04:43,960 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 4: encourage a thoughtful debate around this, you play the You 98 00:04:47,720 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 4: don't play the man, You play the ball. And I 99 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 4: just don't think this whole thing is taking us any further. 100 00:04:52,960 --> 00:04:54,640 Speaker 1: Oh guess as so were you going to say something there? 101 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:58,000 Speaker 3: Look, the thing I've just been thinking about through all 102 00:04:58,120 --> 00:05:02,440 Speaker 3: this heabit is you look at Doug Graham under Bulger 103 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 3: huge gains in treaty settlements, same with Chrisphins and under 104 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:10,320 Speaker 3: Key National and this is contrary to the DNA. 105 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:11,800 Speaker 2: I mean, it's arguable that. 106 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 3: The massive moves on treaty settlements may well have sort 107 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 3: of costume Bulger's job at the time. But the thing 108 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 3: is they actually have quite a proud history in terms 109 00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 3: of the adealans of MARI and trying to settle the treaties. 110 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:28,680 Speaker 3: And that's why I totally understand where both Jennyship and 111 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:33,600 Speaker 3: Chrisphinson are coming from that damages especially the party's relationship 112 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:34,000 Speaker 3: to Mari. 113 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:36,080 Speaker 1: But you see, the thing is, this is not about 114 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:38,760 Speaker 1: treaty settlements, right, So this is about this is about 115 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:41,120 Speaker 1: this is not about what any government of any color 116 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: has done. This is about what the courts have done 117 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:46,719 Speaker 1: with treaty principles, and that is where the resistance is. 118 00:05:47,640 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 2: Well, yeah, no, no, I'm just saying you're talking about 119 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:51,679 Speaker 2: the relationship. 120 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 3: In the past, that the relationship in some ways had 121 00:05:55,880 --> 00:05:58,279 Speaker 3: been a commendable one because of the work they've done there, 122 00:05:58,440 --> 00:06:00,839 Speaker 3: We've now moved into this sort of whether how are 123 00:06:00,839 --> 00:06:03,360 Speaker 3: you putting the treaty principle, whether they go under law 124 00:06:03,480 --> 00:06:06,200 Speaker 3: or not. But what I'm saying is it's sort of 125 00:06:06,720 --> 00:06:10,120 Speaker 3: there's any good will that's sort of said. 126 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: Which is remarkable a trish because the Nets, the Gnats 127 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 1: clearly thought that they could put this in an arm's 128 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:19,000 Speaker 1: length and they are stuffing this up so badly. They 129 00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:19,720 Speaker 1: are wearing this. 130 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,839 Speaker 4: They are wearing it. And when I saw the email 131 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:27,320 Speaker 4: coming from the National Party on Thursday night, Thursday night, 132 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 4: and I thought it's that old thing. It was such 133 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 4: a long email from Paul Goldsmith explaining the position of 134 00:06:33,480 --> 00:06:35,600 Speaker 4: you know, why we're supporting it now, but we won't 135 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 4: support it then. And you know too many things. 136 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,000 Speaker 1: Explaining is losing, Explaining is losing. 137 00:06:41,240 --> 00:06:45,400 Speaker 4: I think you know that this six months selectrimittee process 138 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:48,280 Speaker 4: is going to be bad for everybody. There is no 139 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 4: winners out of this process because it takes us to 140 00:06:52,400 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 4: a dead end and all of the emotion and and we. 141 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:58,720 Speaker 1: Are going to end up feeling so angry at the 142 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: end of this and nothing will have changed. 143 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 4: That's right, that's right. 144 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 1: And yeah, so the Nets, I mean, I'm shocked at 145 00:07:06,720 --> 00:07:08,520 Speaker 1: how stupid the Nets have been on this. But anyway, 146 00:07:08,520 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 1: what can you do? Hey saying? So listen, tell me, 147 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:12,080 Speaker 1: what do you think should the cops consider a different 148 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,440 Speaker 1: strategy with that dad who's taking his kids bush? 149 00:07:15,640 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 3: They can consider a different strategy, But there's no way 150 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 3: you can offer someone an amnesty. You can why not say, look, 151 00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 3: you can kidnap your kids, go off rob a bank 152 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 3: and look, we'll well, we'll just forget about it. 153 00:07:26,920 --> 00:07:29,600 Speaker 1: You do, though, how do you get him out those sayings? 154 00:07:29,600 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 2: Though? 155 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: Because he ain't going to come out with those kids 156 00:07:31,240 --> 00:07:32,680 Speaker 1: if he's going to be chucked in Jael and lose 157 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 1: custody all together, which w it's already happened. 158 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 3: Really, Yeah, but it's going to say a pretty dangerous 159 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 3: precedent if you say, you know, we'll start letting you 160 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 3: off things if you sort of decide to look, it's 161 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 3: the big problem there is he's obviously getting help. That's 162 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:50,000 Speaker 3: that's that's the biggest issue in those poor kids. What 163 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 3: sort of And it's interesting reading even if he's a 164 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 3: you know, even if they catch him, they're then going 165 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:57,840 Speaker 3: to somehow try and keep the relationship going with the kids, 166 00:07:57,840 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 3: because that's all I've known for the last three years. 167 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:03,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, what do you think, tu, Well, yeah, I think 168 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:04,960 Speaker 4: there's a hard line on this. I mean, you could 169 00:08:05,040 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 4: argue anything in the name of love. And if we have. 170 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: A hard line, he stays in the bush well and 171 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: those kids stay without an education in their own peers. 172 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, but you I totally agree with Mark on this. 173 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,680 Speaker 4: This is a guy who's kidnapped his own kids. And 174 00:08:20,120 --> 00:08:22,320 Speaker 4: I come at this from the perspective of a mother. 175 00:08:23,000 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 4: If these were my kids and a dad had and 176 00:08:25,680 --> 00:08:29,040 Speaker 4: the dad had taken my kids off for what three years, Yeah, 177 00:08:30,040 --> 00:08:33,320 Speaker 4: I would say get him out and whatever happens to 178 00:08:33,400 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 4: him is on his heads. But I want my kids back. 179 00:08:36,360 --> 00:08:39,720 Speaker 4: And I actually think if you were the mum in 180 00:08:39,760 --> 00:08:41,880 Speaker 4: this situation, which is what sort of I think about 181 00:08:41,960 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 4: late at night, I don't know how you'd still be 182 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,080 Speaker 4: holding together. You would be absolutely beside yourself. 183 00:08:48,760 --> 00:08:51,319 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. And I think it's actually quite complicated. I 184 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: think there's a lot we don't know because the family court, 185 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:55,679 Speaker 1: and hopefully in time we will get a little bit 186 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:56,680 Speaker 1: more out of this. 187 00:08:57,360 --> 00:09:00,520 Speaker 3: For more from Heather Duplassy Ellen Drive, listen live to 188 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,680 Speaker 3: News Talks it Be from four pm weekdays, or follow 189 00:09:03,679 --> 00:09:05,479 Speaker 3: the podcast on iHeartRadio.