1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:01,680 Speaker 1: We've got a new look at the ongoing miss that 2 00:00:01,840 --> 00:00:04,960 Speaker 1: is school abs andeeism by the age of twenty the 3 00:00:05,000 --> 00:00:08,920 Speaker 1: EER the Education Review offers claims chronically absent students cost 4 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,760 Speaker 1: the state three times as much as those going to school. 5 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,120 Speaker 1: That stuff you would expect the cost in crime and 6 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:16,160 Speaker 1: social housing, all that sort of thing. So last term, 7 00:00:16,480 --> 00:00:20,320 Speaker 1: eighty thousand students were chronically absent. That's missing three weeks 8 00:00:20,360 --> 00:00:23,120 Speaker 1: in a term. At the here of Bro's Education evaluation, 9 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: Seder Ruth Jerodersbeck. Well, this Ruth, very good morning to you. 10 00:00:26,760 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 2: Good morning. 11 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: You depressed about this very We. 12 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,920 Speaker 2: Think we've got a chronic absence crisis. It has bought 13 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:34,880 Speaker 2: the number of students of chronic absence in the last 14 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:37,720 Speaker 2: decade and actually nearly trickled in primary school. 15 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,040 Speaker 1: How do you explain them? 16 00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:42,120 Speaker 2: So students we talked to, so there's a range of 17 00:00:42,159 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 2: fact that half of them said their mental health and issues, 18 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: but being bullied at school and not feeling safe at 19 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,240 Speaker 2: schools and issues or things going in their family lives, 20 00:00:49,240 --> 00:00:51,599 Speaker 2: for example, moving around a lot. But what we do 21 00:00:51,720 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 2: know is the support we've got in place to respond 22 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,120 Speaker 2: to this is just not adequate and isn't adequately resourced. 23 00:00:57,200 --> 00:00:59,160 Speaker 1: See what's interesting about this for me, apart from the 24 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 1: fact is depress is this goes back to twenty fifteen. 25 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: So everyone up until now is blaming COVID. Twenty fifteen's 26 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: well before COVID. So something was going on then, wasn't it. 27 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, So we know this has been growing since twenty fifteen. 28 00:01:12,319 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 2: So these factors that are contributing to a long standing 29 00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 2: and we've got to have better support in place. Half 30 00:01:17,880 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 2: the schools don't refer to attendant services because attendant services 31 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 2: are often not effective because they're overwhelmed. Some of them 32 00:01:23,480 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 2: have got like five hundred student caseloads for a single worker. 33 00:01:27,280 --> 00:01:28,199 Speaker 2: It's just not enough. 34 00:01:28,319 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: Okay. So the caret and stick thing that's going on 35 00:01:30,920 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 1: with the current government about attendance and making schools all 36 00:01:34,240 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: that is that helping. Is there an approach that works 37 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:36,880 Speaker 1: or not? 38 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:41,520 Speaker 2: We know that knowing where they are step attendance response, 39 00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 2: where we're going to be doing more to understand what's 40 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:45,960 Speaker 2: going on, monitoring and act early. That is a key 41 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: part of it. But we're also saying we need more effective, 42 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 2: targeted support and we need to do more to retain 43 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:53,800 Speaker 2: students when they do make it back to school, and 44 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:55,960 Speaker 2: schools need to be funded and services need to be 45 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:58,120 Speaker 2: funded to do this. There's some things we can move 46 00:01:58,160 --> 00:02:01,360 Speaker 2: off schools, for example, prosecute and got information sharing, so 47 00:02:01,360 --> 00:02:03,520 Speaker 2: schools could focus on what they do best, which is 48 00:02:03,560 --> 00:02:05,040 Speaker 2: working with the kids and their parents. 49 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:08,240 Speaker 1: Is it solvable to the extents that like crime? In 50 00:02:08,280 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: other words, it's all very well to get to the 51 00:02:09,960 --> 00:02:12,280 Speaker 1: kid and help them, but then they go back home 52 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,359 Speaker 1: to where the problems started, and as long as you're 53 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:16,440 Speaker 1: doing that bit, that's where you trouble lies. 54 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 2: It's definitely solvable because we've looked at really effective systems 55 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 2: both here and abroad, and they are end to end. 56 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,320 Speaker 2: But you're right, it has to be relentlessly removing those barriers. 57 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 2: Some of those are with parents and families, but some 58 00:02:28,880 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 2: of them is about the school. Students most often said 59 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: it was kind of school factors that stopped them going 60 00:02:33,120 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 2: to school, and parents also said they want to work 61 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:37,720 Speaker 2: more closely to school. And we know school are doing 62 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 2: their best, they're just not set up to succeed. 63 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:42,440 Speaker 1: I don't know how to put it at the light 64 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: are and you know, in other words, I don't like school. 65 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 1: I don't like the teachers. I'm bullied. All that stuff 66 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,560 Speaker 1: we all went through that have we just become a 67 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:51,640 Speaker 1: bit soft and that's suddenly a reason not to go 68 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,320 Speaker 1: to school as opposed to it sucks, but that's life. 69 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,359 Speaker 2: What we talked to these students, it was more serious 70 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 2: things with mental health and also barriers like physical health. 71 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,600 Speaker 2: Because these are kids are missing three weeks a term, 72 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,040 Speaker 2: it's missing a day or two here. They've got really 73 00:03:05,040 --> 00:03:07,639 Speaker 2: significant issues, many of them, and we need to work 74 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,919 Speaker 2: through that and so that they can get back to school. 75 00:03:10,240 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: Say, is I mean we I mean, I don't want 76 00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:15,680 Speaker 1: to sound like a dinosaur, but we were all bullied 77 00:03:15,720 --> 00:03:18,120 Speaker 1: at school, weren't we? Every one of us was bullied 78 00:03:18,160 --> 00:03:20,840 Speaker 1: at school. We didn't call it mental health. It was 79 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,480 Speaker 1: just we got bullied at school. Is that what you're 80 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 1: talking about, though. 81 00:03:25,320 --> 00:03:27,840 Speaker 2: No, we're talking about a range of things. For example, 82 00:03:28,040 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 2: and if you're struggling with anxiety or issues like that, 83 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:33,480 Speaker 2: and also if your family's moving around a lot, and 84 00:03:33,480 --> 00:03:35,360 Speaker 2: I've seen quite a lot of that, And if your 85 00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 2: family's moving and you go into three or four different 86 00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:40,160 Speaker 2: schools a year, it's really hard to create those habits 87 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:43,360 Speaker 2: of going regularly that help you succeed and unfortunately, as 88 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 2: you saw in the report, if kids aren't going regularly, 89 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,080 Speaker 2: these students are much less likely to succeed in life. 90 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:51,640 Speaker 2: Less than half of get NTA A level two and 91 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:54,160 Speaker 2: by the age of twenty five, nearly half for receiving 92 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: a benefit rather than being in work. So this education 93 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,400 Speaker 2: they're missing out actually really damages their life life chances. 94 00:04:01,000 --> 00:04:04,320 Speaker 1: So none of none of that's surprising. Unfortunately, Having said that, 95 00:04:04,760 --> 00:04:08,120 Speaker 1: is what you're saying that, because you've been around a while, 96 00:04:08,600 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 1: is life for a young person now profoundly different in 97 00:04:13,240 --> 00:04:16,520 Speaker 1: their interaction with school than it was thirty years ago, 98 00:04:16,600 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 1: for example, or something just just obviously different. Therefore we've 99 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:21,080 Speaker 1: got these problems. 100 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:24,840 Speaker 2: What we're saying is it's a mixture of things. So 101 00:04:25,200 --> 00:04:27,840 Speaker 2: definitely students have got new pressures and new anxieties, and 102 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 2: we're seeing that across education and social media and other 103 00:04:30,720 --> 00:04:33,160 Speaker 2: things to put pressures. But we're also saying that somehow 104 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 2: in these in and we've lost the sort of importance 105 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,040 Speaker 2: of education and across attendance, we're seeing that we're just 106 00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 2: not taking going to school seriously enough, so there are 107 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 2: real barriers. But also we've all of us got to 108 00:04:43,080 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 2: do more to get our kids going to school regularly 109 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:47,640 Speaker 2: because the more you do it, there's the biggest predictor 110 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,799 Speaker 2: of attendance is going to school regularly as a habit. 111 00:04:50,960 --> 00:04:55,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree. Do we are we an outlier? I mean, 112 00:04:55,320 --> 00:04:57,240 Speaker 1: as Australia got the same problem we had, what about 113 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,400 Speaker 1: Britain all that sort of stuff. Are we doing something wrong? 114 00:04:59,480 --> 00:05:01,880 Speaker 1: Or as Rewisdom country got the same. 115 00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 2: Issue, So we did look at that and other countries 116 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 2: don't really measure chronic absence in the way that we do, 117 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 2: but we do know an attendance across issue in New 118 00:05:09,960 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 2: Zealand is one of the poor performers and we need 119 00:05:12,720 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 2: to do better and this report hopefully sets out how 120 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,960 Speaker 2: we can because are really effective things that we can 121 00:05:18,040 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 2: do that will make a difference if we do it together. 122 00:05:20,560 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: Good stuff, Gruth, appreciate company as always, Ruth Shanoda, who's 123 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 1: the heat of the eero's Education Evaluations Center. 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