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Speaker 1: Kiota.

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Speaker 2: I'm Chelsea Daniels and this is the Front Page, a

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Speaker 2: daily podcast presented by the New Zealand Herald.

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Speaker 1: The world can feel like a dark.

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Speaker 2: And gloomy place at times, particularly at the moment, with

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Speaker 2: war's economic uncertainty and certain politicians always generating headlines.

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Speaker 1: It's hard to avoid feeling down.

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Speaker 2: But in amongst all this doom and gloom, there are

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Speaker 2: plenty of stories worth celebrating in New Zealand, from stars

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Speaker 2: on the rise to businesses making it work in a

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Speaker 2: tough environment. The New Zealand Herald is spotlighting some of

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Speaker 2: these stories in a new editorial campaign.

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Speaker 1: On the Up.

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Speaker 2: Later we'll get advice from psychologist to Doogle Sutherland on

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Speaker 2: how to reset our minds and focus on the positive

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Speaker 2: news out there. But first on the Front Page, the

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Speaker 2: Herald's chief content of us sort of publishing, Murray kirknesses

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Speaker 2: with us to explain the thinking behind this series. Murray,

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Speaker 2: what was the inspiration behind this campaign?

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Speaker 3: It's good question, Chelse, I guess we wanted to continue

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Speaker 3: to do what we always do. We know the media

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Speaker 3: plays a vital role in holding the powerful to account,

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Speaker 3: examining issues that need urgent attention. Helping to drive change

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Speaker 3: for the better. That will always be the core of

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Speaker 3: what we do, but we also want to We decided

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Speaker 3: we wanted to champion kiwis who were doing great things

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Speaker 3: for their community, businesses that were doing well, celebrate people

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Speaker 3: performing impressive feats, no matter in what field that might be.

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Speaker 3: That there is a lot of negativity and we just

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Speaker 3: felt it was a fine project to get involved with.

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Speaker 2: What are some of the stories or topics you're hoping

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Speaker 2: to see covered over the next few weeks.

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Speaker 3: Well, as I just mentioned, it will be everything from

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Speaker 3: the economy to sports field and sports success to volunteers

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Speaker 3: in the heartland rolling up their sleeves doing their the

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Speaker 3: whole gamut across all our verticals and all our regents.

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Speaker 4: Well, where we're at at the moment, as people are

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Speaker 4: disrupted and the uncertainty only is compounded by a bad

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Speaker 4: news story. People are tired of hearing bad news, even

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Speaker 4: if it's factual, and then they go down these rabbit

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Speaker 4: holes on YouTube or other places, are saying that, well,

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Speaker 4: there's alternative stuff happening, and this is what the media

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Speaker 4: should be reporting. I think also we're in a place

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Speaker 4: where the media itself does have to deal with a

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Speaker 4: whole lot of changes. People have got other news avenues

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Speaker 4: they can go to, whether or not they're trusted news sources.

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Speaker 4: But there's Instagram, there's YouTube, there's Twitter, there's Facebook. Now.

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Speaker 2: I know a lot of those trust in media surveys

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Speaker 2: and the like are always calling us the news to

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Speaker 2: be more positive, but it can be different. Culture promote

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Speaker 2: good news at times, right. Is that part of the

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Speaker 2: motivation here? And why do you think people always ask

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Speaker 2: for good news yet always go and click on the

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Speaker 2: car crash stories, bad weather, political scandals.

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Speaker 3: I guess it's part of the human condition, is it? Seriously?

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Speaker 3: That's my belief. I think one of the challenges with

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Speaker 3: good news, there's several challenges. I think part of the

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Speaker 3: psyche of New Zealand is that a great many people

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Speaker 3: actually don't want to put their head above the para,

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Speaker 3: but that you know, the modest and that's a fantastic

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Speaker 3: attribute to have, let's face it. So that's part of it.

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Speaker 3: I think there are great stories to be told. We

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Speaker 3: need to think the media needs to think more carefully

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Speaker 3: about the way they tell those stories so that they

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Speaker 3: do get an audience.

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Speaker 2: When this campaign was first announced, a few other media

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Speaker 2: organizations appeared to take issue with The.

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Speaker 1: Herald doing this. What's your response to.

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Speaker 3: Them, Well, I think they got the wrong end of

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Speaker 3: the stick, quite frankly, I think they sort of put

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Speaker 3: two and two together and came up with three hundred

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Speaker 3: and twelve. There were fears that it was going to

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Speaker 3: be a politically led campaign, that it was somehow going

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Speaker 3: to be partisan, that it was somehow aligned to supporting

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Speaker 3: the government, which is complete nonsense. To be truthful, I

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Speaker 3: actually think all media organizations have a part to play

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Speaker 3: in championing their communities and celebrating success when that's appropriate.

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Speaker 2: And I don't think we're going to be pretending that

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Speaker 2: everything is suddenly fantastic in the world, right, But it's

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Speaker 2: about finding those bright spots.

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Speaker 3: And as I said at the very beginning, you know

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Speaker 3: that that core duty of what we do holding the

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Speaker 3: powerful to account. For instance, you know our journalism is powerful,

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Speaker 3: We know it is. They will always remain at our core.

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Speaker 3: This is not instead of this is as well.

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Speaker 1: As thanks for joining us, Murray, That's my pleasure, Chelsea.

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Speaker 2: Recent economic data does suggest that New Zealand is turning

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Speaker 2: a corner, but consumer and business confidence isn't I'm aligning

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Speaker 2: with that yet it's just one example of how we

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Speaker 2: might collectively be feeling a little negative right now.

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Speaker 1: To talk to us about the psychology of what's.

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Speaker 2: Happening in the world, we're joined now by Dr Dougal Sutherland.

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Speaker 1: Doogle.

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Speaker 2: We're not asking you to break doctor patient confidentiality, but

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Speaker 2: when you are talking to clients or even just people

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Speaker 2: out on the street, are they feeling generally positive or

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Speaker 2: negative about the state of the world at the moment.

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Speaker 5: Oh? Look, I think a lot of people I'm chatting

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Speaker 5: to at the moment are still feeling pretty negative about life.

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Speaker 5: They're still worried about the economy, they're still worried about jobs,

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Speaker 5: they're worried about international politics, they're worried about climate change,

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Speaker 5: you know, and then you're worried about your kids, and

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Speaker 5: you know what you're going to do at the weekend

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Speaker 5: as well. So yeah, I think people are still a

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Speaker 5: bit down on the dumps. To be honest, it.

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Speaker 1: Has been a rough few years, if not a rough decade. Right.

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Speaker 2: You could probably name any year in the last ten

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Speaker 2: to fifteen years to argue when things took a turn,

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Speaker 2: and you'd probably have a fair argument. There are a

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Speaker 2: general feeling of malaise that we just can't pass.

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Speaker 1: And why do you think that is?

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Speaker 5: Look, I see, I agree. I think you know, in

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Speaker 5: the last decade or so, we have seen an uptick

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Speaker 5: in people feeling unhappy and a bit stressed. For me,

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Speaker 5: there was certainly a real turning point with COVID, and

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Speaker 5: I think for a lot of people that brought things

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Speaker 5: to the four that had been perhaps hidden away or

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Speaker 5: just lurking around in the back. And since that we

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Speaker 5: haven't really kind of a lot of people haven't emerged

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Speaker 5: from that yet. So there's COVID, and then quickly after

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Speaker 5: COVID there was an economic downturn, and then there was redundancies.

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Speaker 5: And so for me, I think there's that been that

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Speaker 5: general sense of unhappiness, unease, of what I might call languishing,

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Speaker 5: particularly since COVID. It was probably growing before then, but

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Speaker 5: for me, COVID was a real catalyst in seeing people,

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Speaker 5: you know, just feeling that sort of ongoing languishing or

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Speaker 5: feeling generally unhappy.

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Speaker 2: What can we do to get ourselves in a more

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Speaker 2: forward thinking mindset, particularly with regards to the economy. I

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Speaker 2: suppose if people don't feel like things are improving. It's

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Speaker 2: not really going to improve because we aren't going to

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Speaker 2: get out there and spend money and keep things turning right.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I mean yeah, I think that's true. I

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Speaker 5: think that, you know, consumer confidence and the sense that

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Speaker 5: things are improving, they often lead to people reaching into

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Speaker 5: their wallet and saying, why don't we buy that or

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Speaker 5: go out for dinner, and of course that gets the

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Speaker 5: economy turning round again. So I think we do have

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Speaker 5: a bit to play in how we can how we

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Speaker 5: view the world really and how we approach the world.

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Speaker 5: Us worrying about the economy probably isn't going to change

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Speaker 5: it an awful lot anyway.

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Speaker 1: What can we do to change our mindset in that respect?

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Speaker 5: There's a couple of things, And firstly, I might I'd

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Speaker 5: start off by saying there are a couple of things

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Speaker 5: I'd suggest not to do or stop doing if possible.

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Speaker 5: So the first thing I would say is stop fighting

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Speaker 5: against negative feelings. That often we notice that we might

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Speaker 5: be feeling unhappy or upset or anxious, and we battle

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Speaker 5: with that thing. I don't want to feel like this.

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Speaker 5: You know, oh my god, I'm feeling down again. We

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Speaker 5: know that that sort of battle or that fight with

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Speaker 5: those negative emotions actually makes us makes us feel worse

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Speaker 5: because it just keeps our attention focused on the fact

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Speaker 5: that we're not feeling very good and that we can't

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Speaker 5: get out of it, and so we feel even worse.

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Speaker 5: So learning to I guess the word is accept the

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Speaker 5: fact that there are good times and there are bad times,

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Speaker 5: and just's a bit like the weather. Okay, you know

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Speaker 5: you can accept that there are rainy days and sunny days.

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Speaker 5: You don't necessarily fight against the rainy day. You don't

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Speaker 5: love it, but you don't fight against it, and the

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Speaker 5: next day will be sunny probably or a day soon.

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Speaker 5: Same with our emotions, rather than fighting against the negative ones,

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Speaker 5: trying to get to a position where you can accept

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Speaker 5: that that will happen, but there will be another positive

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Speaker 5: emotion coming up, So letting go of that fight can

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Speaker 5: be really helpful. I think also trying stop looking for

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Speaker 5: the next big thing to make you happy, or if

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Speaker 5: only we did this, or we went away to Tahiti,

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Speaker 5: or I bought a big car or whatever. We know

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Speaker 5: that that sort of focus on the next big thing

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Speaker 5: is quite exhausting and actually leads people to miss what

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Speaker 5: what I call those small moments of joy that happen

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Speaker 5: in day to day life. So those are two things

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Speaker 5: I would say to stop doing. And then there are

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Speaker 5: a couple of things I'd suggest that we could start

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Speaker 5: doing which might be helpful.

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Speaker 1: And what are those.

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Speaker 5: Well, firstly, I'd say, train your brain to notice those

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Speaker 5: small moments of joy. Our brain is wired to look

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Speaker 5: for things that make us stressed and depressed because you know,

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Speaker 5: historically those things are dangerous, so it makes it sets

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Speaker 5: that our brain would look out for those But we

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Speaker 5: need to train our brains and train ourselves really to

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Speaker 5: look for those small moments of joy. And there's some

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Speaker 5: very simple yet really effective things that people can do. Firstly,

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Speaker 5: one thing that you can do individually or in a

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Speaker 5: workplace or as a family. This works really well at

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Speaker 5: the time, but it doesn't have to be at a

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Speaker 5: meal time, can be at a team meeting or anything.

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Speaker 5: Is actually go around and list three good things that

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Speaker 5: have happened today. Now, when I say good things, they

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Speaker 5: might be very small. It might be the fact that

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Speaker 5: you know, you walk to work or walk from the

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Speaker 5: car and it was a beautiful sunny day and that

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Speaker 5: was it. So we're not talking about oh one lotto

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Speaker 5: it's just noticing those very small moments, and it's helping

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Speaker 5: you train your brain to look for those small moments

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Speaker 5: of joy. Another thing that is often helpful is what

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Speaker 5: we call savoring the moment. So if you think about

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Speaker 5: somebody that's like a wine connoisseur, you know, you watch

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Speaker 5: them when they drink a glass of wine and they're

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Speaker 5: looking at the label, and they're holding it up to

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Speaker 5: the light, and they're sniffing at several times, and they're

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Speaker 5: swallowing it around them. You know, whether as the rest

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Speaker 5: of us just gulp it back and that's done in

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Speaker 5: three seconds. That act of really savoring, really digging in

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Speaker 5: and focusing and bringing to mind good things that have happened,

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Speaker 5: and putting your focus in concentration, almost reliving those events,

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Speaker 5: if you will, really helps amplify them and amplifies their

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Speaker 5: impact on your life. But the other thing I would

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Speaker 5: say too is be active in things that you can

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Speaker 5: do to enhance your positive emotion. I think we often

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Speaker 5: make the mistake of waiting to be happy and hoping

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Speaker 5: that something good might come today, and fingers crossed, I'll

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Speaker 5: feel happy and nothing happens to me, So, oh I

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Speaker 5: feel terrible. But there are things that you can actively

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Speaker 5: do in a planned sort of way to enhance your mood. Now,

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Speaker 5: those are things like we know getting out into nature,

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Speaker 5: into blue and green spaces can be really helpful. Although

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Speaker 5: the trick there is you need to do that for

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Speaker 5: at least twenty to thirty minutes to get the impact.

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Speaker 5: Don't just pop out for a five minute walk at

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Speaker 5: lunch time. You won't get the effect. So doing things

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Speaker 5: like popping into nature for more than twenty minutes, or

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Speaker 5: trying random acts of kindness, so just you know, and

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Speaker 5: I think we all know that kind of the idea

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Speaker 5: behind random acts of kindness, just going and doing something

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Speaker 5: deliberately kind to somebody you don't know. Doing those small

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Speaker 5: actions really help, can help proactively boost our positive emotion

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Speaker 5: and shift us away from looking at the at the

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Speaker 5: dreary side and everything that's going wrong in the world,

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Speaker 5: and hopefully that might have an impact on us experiencing

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Speaker 5: a more positive level of emotion in our daily lives.

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Speaker 2: We talked about doom scrolling on the front page a

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Speaker 2: few weeks ago.

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Speaker 6: Doom scrolling is I think it all started when marketers

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Speaker 6: realized that clickbait would entice people to stay online and

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Speaker 6: we end up finding these topics that we just want

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Speaker 6: to dive deeper into or we think we need to,

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Speaker 6: and it's actually not a very healthy habit to get

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Speaker 6: into because it's a very unconscious way of consuming media.

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Speaker 2: Do you think we can get a bit too caught

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Speaker 2: up on going down that negative rabbit hole?

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Speaker 5: Yeah? Absolutely, And look, social media is designed to capture

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Speaker 5: your attention like that, So I think I think the

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Speaker 5: wise use of social media is a skill that many

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Speaker 5: of us, probably me included, need to learn. That. You know,

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Speaker 5: everything is rigged up for you to be hooked into that,

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Speaker 5: so trying to free yourself from that, I think can

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Speaker 5: be really helpful. Imposing a few I wouldn't say rules,

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Speaker 5: because nobody likes the rules about their life, but imposing

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Speaker 5: a few guidelines for yourself. Hey, I'm only going to

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Speaker 5: check this for x amount of time or at a

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Speaker 5: certain time of day, I'm only going to spend twenty

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Speaker 5: minutes doom scrolling, and then I'm going to do something else.

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Speaker 5: So limiting your exposure to that can be really helpful.

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Speaker 5: Don't cut it off completely. We've still got to live

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Speaker 5: in the world and be real, but perhaps not getting

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Speaker 5: sucked down into those rabbit holes can be really helpful.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what would it be your advice for people to

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Speaker 2: avoid getting sucked in by the news cycle or what's

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Speaker 2: happening or the negativity of the world without fully disconnecting

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Speaker 2: from what's going on.

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Speaker 5: I think I think a couple of things. I think

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Speaker 5: you know, even things like notifications on your social media.

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Speaker 5: If you have all your notifications on for all your

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Speaker 5: social media platforms and the news sites that you follow,

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Speaker 5: you'll constantly be bombarded with information. Now, most of us

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Speaker 5: probably don't need to be up to date every second

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Speaker 5: with what's what's breaking in the world. So if there

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Speaker 5: are tip if you can reduce your notifications and also

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Speaker 5: have some maybe some planned time, I'm going to check

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Speaker 5: it at twelve o'clock or six o'clock or whatever. So

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Speaker 5: taking back some control of it, I think is really helpful.

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Speaker 5: Also to being aware that you are the type of

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Speaker 5: person that gets sucked into doom scrolling and going down

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Speaker 5: those rabbit holes. That's not a judgmental thing. It's just

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Speaker 5: noticing that, hey, I'm prone to doing that, maybe I

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Speaker 5: should be doing some things about it. Telling other people

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Speaker 5: that you're trying to do it can be really helpful

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Speaker 5: with that accountability to somebody else. So I think all

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Speaker 5: those things can be useful and unhooking us from that

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Speaker 5: social media.

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Speaker 1: Thanks for joining us to god aw some.

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Speaker 5: Thanks, Chelsea.

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Speaker 2: That's it for this episode of the Front Page. You

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Speaker 2: can read more about today's stories and extensive news coverage

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Speaker 2: at enzedherld.

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Speaker 1: Dot co dot nz.

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Speaker 2: The Front Page is produced by Ethan Sills and Richard Martin,

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Speaker 2: who is also our sound engineer.

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Speaker 1: I'm Chelsea Daniels.

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Speaker 2: Subscribe to the Front Page on iHeartRadio or wherever you

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Speaker 2: get your podcasts, and tune in tomorrow for another look

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Speaker 2: behind the headlines.