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Speaker 1: Right now. The government's planning to introduce the Treaty Principal's

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Speaker 1: Bill tomorrow. Now this is surprising because it is a

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Speaker 1: week and a half earlier than expected. Act Leader David

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Speaker 1: Seymour's with us on this right now. Hey, David, Hey,

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Speaker 1: you ever feels very much like you guys are doing

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Speaker 1: this while we're distracted by the US selection.

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Speaker 2: Is that?

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Speaker 1: What's up?

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Speaker 2: I tell you one thing about conspiracies and government. Here

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Speaker 2: are all sorts of things that we're supposedly up to, and

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Speaker 2: I think, man, I wish we were that organized.

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Speaker 1: Well, I hang on, is it because it already whins

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Speaker 1: as he was saying this morning that there was a

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Speaker 1: meeting yesterday in Parliament where you would all supposed to

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Speaker 1: discuss the business of the House and this was not

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Speaker 1: at all flagged as happening this week. Why was that?

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Speaker 2: I guess it's probably Rawdy doesn't have a huge amount

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Speaker 2: of experience. In fact, he normally doesn't pay a lot

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Speaker 2: of respect to Parliament. I've been in that Business Committee

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Speaker 2: for six years and the Government doesn't always tell you everything.

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Speaker 2: So there's nothing unusual here. There's just people trying to

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Speaker 2: make mountains for molehos.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So why is it coming in earlier than we're expecting?

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Speaker 2: I guess the question is why did you expect it

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Speaker 2: at a certain time. Actually, things change all the time.

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Speaker 2: The reason people expected it on a day is that

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Speaker 2: the White Tangy Tribunal demanded a date, which is very unusual,

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Speaker 2: so we gave them one, and as dates often do,

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Speaker 2: this one change. So really, this has going to be

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Speaker 2: the craziest mountain out of a mole hale ever, because

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Speaker 2: the reality is you're in parliament, it's chaos. Sometimes you

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Speaker 2: get things done early, you go early. Sometimes it takes longer,

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Speaker 2: you do it later. Normally no one noticed this because

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Speaker 2: you don't have witan E Tribunal demanding live updates on

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Speaker 2: every date and expectation, and you don't have Larward Eocity,

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Speaker 2: you know, pitching in with his reckons despite having with

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Speaker 2: the greatest respect to them, pretty limitted experience of parliament.

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Speaker 1: David, what do you make the White Tongy Tribunal leaking

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Speaker 1: the information and elusing everyone that you're going to table

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Speaker 1: it tomorrow.

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Speaker 2: Well it's pretty saddening, to be honest. I mean, ultimately,

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Speaker 2: in a country you need trust in your institutions and

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Speaker 2: you need people to act honorably, so they say, you

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Speaker 2: have to give us this information. It's your duty and

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Speaker 2: its respect and vomity and all of these other things.

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Speaker 2: And then we by our part and we find when

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Speaker 2: we give them information, within an hour we have the

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Speaker 2: media ringing up saying we have been told this, and

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Speaker 2: of course we expected it.

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Speaker 1: So who did they tell because I thought that they

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Speaker 1: told lawyers. Did they tell lawyers who told the media,

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Speaker 1: or did they just go directly and tell the media.

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Speaker 2: Well, you'd know better than anyone whither. The journalists aren't

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Speaker 2: going to reveal their sources, so I guess that secret

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Speaker 2: dies with them.

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Speaker 1: And when you told the White Pany Tribunal, did you

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Speaker 1: tell them on the understanding that they would retain that

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Speaker 1: information and not share it.

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Speaker 2: Look, I'm not sure, but you'd have to assume that

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Speaker 2: if somebody told you something, then it would be for

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Speaker 2: a certain purpose and it would be up to the

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Speaker 2: person who had the information to announce it publicly. In

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Speaker 2: any event, through their processes, the information got out within

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Speaker 2: an hour, whether it was them, whether it was lawyers

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Speaker 2: who were acting for applicants who are informed of details

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Speaker 2: of the case. It's not entirely clear. But one of

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Speaker 2: the results of them demanding the information and seeing it

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Speaker 2: get into the public demand so rapidly is that they're

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Speaker 2: actually are road trust institutions, including their own. That's a

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Speaker 2: bit saddening in a way.

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Speaker 1: Now do you expect commity from them in the same

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Speaker 1: way that you would from a stock standard court.

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Speaker 2: Well that they're not a court. So often people say

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Speaker 2: you have to fully respect them. They're actually not a court.

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Speaker 2: They are a standing commission of inquiry that's been going

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Speaker 2: for forty eight years. I think it's just good to

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Speaker 2: treat people well wherever you can. I've always been someone

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Speaker 2: who believes in the basic respects and dignity for each individual.

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Speaker 2: That's why I'm opposed to the Treaty being cast as

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Speaker 2: a partnership, because when you say the treaty is a

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Speaker 2: partnership between races which the member of which group, your

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Speaker 2: group membership becomes more important than your basic human dignity.

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Speaker 1: And just listen very quickly, are you guys planning to

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Speaker 1: reform them the tribunal? Have you actually got this cross

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Speaker 1: the line with the big guns in the NATS.

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Speaker 2: I assume you said the big guns and the gnats.

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Speaker 1: In the Gnats the top dogs in the NATS.

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Speaker 2: Well, you know, for the very Democratic party. Look, you've

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Speaker 2: got to remember that that's not an act policy, that's

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Speaker 2: the New Zealand First policy. But I mean, all i'd

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Speaker 2: say is that, you know, it's something that that supports,

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Speaker 2: as we support all of the different policies that we've

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Speaker 2: signed up to through coalition. And I frankly think it's

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Speaker 2: a really sad time because the Waits Only Tribunal and

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Speaker 2: the treaty settlement process have been enormously positive. I think

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Speaker 2: it's a point of pride for the New Zealand. In fact,

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Speaker 2: I don't think many countries would have gone through the

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Speaker 2: kind of civilized process of reconciliation that New Zealand has

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Speaker 2: in the last thirty years or so with treaty settlements. However,

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Speaker 2: they've now become so politicized that I think they've actually

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Speaker 2: diminished their own manner and that will only lend stream

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Speaker 2: to the arm of those in government who would like

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Speaker 2: to see them substantially reformed.

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Speaker 1: Quite right, Hey, David, thanks very much, appreciate it. David

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Speaker 1: seymour X part of Leader. We'll come back to this

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Speaker 1: later on in the program too. For more from hither

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Speaker 1: Duplessy Allen Drive. Listen live to news talks it'd be

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