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Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks ed B.

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Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: News Talks EDB. So, after twenty four years as a politician,

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Speaker 2: Judith Collins will retire to take up a job as

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Speaker 2: President of the Law Commission. A man who has spent

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Speaker 2: a lot of time with Judith over her career is

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Speaker 2: how seeing a political correspondent. I say that with love

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Speaker 2: Bowry so.

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Speaker 3: Jolly well hope so. And you know I was around

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Speaker 3: when she came into politics, of course, and she's seen

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Speaker 3: as a formidable politician. She is very good in the

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Speaker 3: house on debate. She's got an acerbic tongue, and that's

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Speaker 3: why I think a lot of people see her as

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Speaker 3: being a pretty hard nosed person. But cut away all that,

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Speaker 3: and I've seen her socially on a number of occasions

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Speaker 3: over the years. She's got an hilarious soft side to it.

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Speaker 3: Even though in her time in politics there have been mistakes,

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Speaker 3: But then given the time that she spent in the place,

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Speaker 3: you'd expect mistakes to come and go, and as far

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Speaker 3: as she is concerned, most of them is gone and forgotten.

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Speaker 3: She credited me in a press conference just held with

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Speaker 3: calling her or dubbing her crusher columns because you know

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Speaker 3: she You'll remember she came out as police minister and

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Speaker 3: said those boy racers that have got to be stopped,

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Speaker 3: and they passed a law that allowed their vehicles to

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Speaker 3: be crushed. Yes, Unfortunately for Judith, she only I think

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Speaker 3: managed to crush one.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we our research came up with three, but it

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Speaker 4: was definitely a low nine number. That's quite an achievement,

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Speaker 4: Crush of Collins because it really it stuck for one

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Speaker 4: because the situation was the crushing the cars, but it

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Speaker 4: seemed to fit because she was a hard woman.

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Speaker 5: So that's that's why it came on.

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think people forgot about the cars and

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Speaker 4: just started calling a crusher exactly exactly.

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Speaker 3: But I also remember, I mean National was going through

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Speaker 3: a very tumultuous time when she became leader. I mean

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Speaker 3: Todd Muller lasted I think fifty three days in the

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Speaker 3: role after defeating Simon Bridges and then Crusher took on

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Speaker 3: the mantle to fight Jasind Dern in the twenty twenty election.

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Speaker 3: And of course, so she puts that as the low

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Speaker 3: point of her career, that she had such a crushing loss.

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Speaker 3: Dare I say it? And you know that was the time,

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Speaker 3: of course, when the Labor Party had, for the first

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Speaker 3: time under MMP a majority in Parliament, unbridled power and

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Speaker 3: lock what happened then, So it was a pity she

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Speaker 3: wasn't a bit more effective.

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Speaker 5: When she took over.

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Speaker 4: Did do you think that she genuinely believed that she

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Speaker 4: could win that election? Because there's this Texas he is

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Speaker 4: I thought it was an interesting text before. Judith Collins

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Speaker 4: is a brilliant woman, smart, funny and takes no quarter.

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Speaker 4: The election she lost was less to do with her

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Speaker 4: and more to do with the national psychosis that had

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Speaker 4: gripped the nation twenty twenty, the return of j C

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Speaker 4: himself woreth had trouble fighting that insanity.

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Speaker 3: That person who wrote the text is right on the mark,

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Speaker 3: and that's exactly the case, and it was hilarious. The

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Speaker 3: big mistake that she made, of course as leader, she

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Speaker 3: decided to discipline Simon Bridge as the former leader for

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Speaker 3: something he said and a group of people at Premiere

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Speaker 3: House standing around it was a joke that he cracked.

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Speaker 3: And the night before she was going to discipline, she

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Speaker 3: rang me at home and I talked to her and

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Speaker 3: I said, Judith, if you disciplined him, the only person

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Speaker 3: that'll end up being disciplined is you. You'll be making

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Speaker 3: a big mistake. And of course she was defeated as

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Speaker 3: leader after that. But the thing is the discipline was

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Speaker 3: for a very mild remark that Simon the sexist, but mild,

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Speaker 3: and he is saying it to a group of people

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Speaker 3: within her hearing. And she said to me at the

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Speaker 3: time of the day before, she said to me, if

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Speaker 3: your wife had heard that, she would be disciplining somebody

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Speaker 3: as well. Look, she's a good disciplinarian, Judith, but I

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Speaker 3: don't think she would take great exception to that.

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Speaker 5: So with all that in mind, what is Judith Collins legacy?

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Speaker 3: Well, I think, you know, for being a fairly tough,

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Speaker 3: tough minded politician, undoubtedly very sharp when it comes to

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Speaker 3: the mind. And the fact is that she spent twenty

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Speaker 3: one years practicing law before she came into politics. Really,

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Speaker 3: that auger is well for the new job Law Commission

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Speaker 3: that she's taking up. Of course, old Jeffrey Palmer was

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Speaker 3: there after he got out of politics, and he was

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Speaker 3: there for quite a long time. I think Judith Collins

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Speaker 3: will probably shake the organization up, but make it probably

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Speaker 3: a little more human.

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Speaker 2: Will this leave a bit of a gap in the

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Speaker 2: National Party as I understand it, She's leaving with seven

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Speaker 2: portfolios she has been looking after. Is there the depth

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Speaker 2: and the party to step up and take over those

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Speaker 2: portfolios and take over for for what Judith was standing for?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there is. Judith of course has defense

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Speaker 3: and we've up dour defense spend under her stewardship, and

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Speaker 3: I think that's and she actually really enjoyed defense. I

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Speaker 3: think she would like to have been an admiral or

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Speaker 3: a field marshal.

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Speaker 2: She would have done well at that.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and it must have given her a big buzz

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Speaker 3: to be able to order around the top generals in

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Speaker 3: the country. But look, having said that, she I think

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Speaker 3: that was a very good portfolio that she held and

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Speaker 3: did it well. Public service another one. Perhaps they weren't

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Speaker 3: as harsh on the public service as they could have

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Speaker 3: been when they took par two years ago, and they'll

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Speaker 3: be ruined that day, I think for a while. But

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Speaker 3: you know, I think her legacy will be and a

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Speaker 3: very able politician for those of us who knew were

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Speaker 3: a very likable person and I think in the future

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Speaker 3: she will be seen as a very good President of

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Speaker 3: the Law Commission.

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Speaker 4: Now, finally, Barry Soper would be true to say that

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Speaker 4: she's leaving politics at her most respected phase in her career.

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Speaker 3: Yep. Probably, even though she was the leader of the

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Speaker 3: National Party. It was seen as desperation. Of course, Simon

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Speaker 3: bridge Is told Muller and then Judith Collins, and she knew,

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Speaker 3: I'm sure going into that twenty twenty election she was

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Speaker 3: on a hiding to nothing and she got a hiding.

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Speaker 3: But as your brilliant Texter pointed out, it was inevitable

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Speaker 3: in twenty twenty with the country terrified of any liberalization

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Speaker 3: of the COVID laws, which of course has turned out

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Speaker 3: to be ridiculous.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, there's a lot of red faced people looking back

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Speaker 5: at that now.

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Speaker 4: Absolutely there is in the way we collectively behaved at

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Speaker 4: that time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Barry. Always great to get you and thank you

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Speaker 2: very much for your analysis. We'll catch up again soon.

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Speaker 3: Nice talking to you.

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Speaker 2: That is our senior political correspondent, Barry Sope.

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