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Speaker 1: So just a reminder of where we're going educationally as

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Speaker 1: of yesterday. So level one is going, we will have

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Speaker 1: a new Foundational Skills Award recognizing literacy and numeracy. Then

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Speaker 1: comes the new Zealand Certificate of Education and Advanced Certificate,

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Speaker 1: and as we mentioned earlier, we are begon the vacational

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Speaker 1: training at long last. Erica Stamford is of course the

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Speaker 1: Education Minister anders back. Will they say very good morning

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Speaker 1: to you? I was saying on the show earlier on

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Speaker 1: it seems, broadly speaking, for such a large announcement yesterday

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Speaker 1: to have been pretty well received.

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Speaker 2: Look, it has been. I think parents intuitively knew that

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Speaker 2: there was something that wasn't quite right about NCA, and

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Speaker 2: they've had the space to be able to say over

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Speaker 2: the last couple of weeks, actually it hasn't been working

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Speaker 2: in these ways for our children, and now they get

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Speaker 2: to have their say with the new plan that's out

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Speaker 2: for consultation today.

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Speaker 1: Did you look at Cambridge Bacalaureate anything that was already

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Speaker 1: in play, simply replace it or not.

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Speaker 2: I had a group of about twenty great principles who

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Speaker 2: formed an advisory group for me, and they looked at

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Speaker 2: every jurisdiction across the world and looked what worked, what

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Speaker 2: didn't work, and pulled together the plan that you see

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Speaker 2: in front of you. There are certain things about Cambridge

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Speaker 2: that are great, there are certain things that aren't quite right,

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Speaker 2: and so we've looked at what we can do to

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Speaker 2: be world leading.

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Speaker 1: Okay, so this would be something that the rest of

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Speaker 1: the world will look at in time and go we

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Speaker 1: will do that too.

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Speaker 2: Well, that is a plan. With all of my education reforms,

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Speaker 2: I want us to be world leading. We've already had

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Speaker 2: accolades about our primary maths and English curriculum. We've had

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Speaker 2: accolades about moving to structure. Let you see, the first

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Speaker 2: country in the world to do so, all of the

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Speaker 2: resources we're pumping in, I've got other countries now coming

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Speaker 2: to us looking at our teachers and what they're doing

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Speaker 2: on the ground and saying we want to replicate this,

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Speaker 2: and that's a great place for us to do you have.

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Speaker 1: Any sense or did you reach out? Do you have

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Speaker 1: any sense of the bipartisanship required here? What's to stop

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Speaker 1: them flipping it?

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Speaker 2: It's really important. This is our national qualification. And I

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Speaker 2: made the point very early on in this process that

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Speaker 2: we have to be aligned on this. We cannot be

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Speaker 2: flip flopping. And of course I reached out and I've

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Speaker 2: been a very dogmatic about that.

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Speaker 1: And are they on board.

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Speaker 2: Well, you'll have to ask them about that.

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Speaker 1: While I was watching them yesterday, they don't seem committed

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Speaker 1: to it. Does it worry you? I mean, you've just

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Speaker 1: thrown out twenty years of something that apparently we were

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Speaker 1: living with perfectly happily. What's to stop them throwing out?

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Speaker 2: Well, I'm sure I don't think we were living with

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Speaker 2: it perfectly happily because I don't think kids were reaching

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Speaker 2: their full potential and we weren't ambitious enough. And we

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Speaker 2: are ambitious.

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Speaker 1: So my only problem with what was announced yesterday is

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Speaker 1: that if you've got kids, and having had five of them,

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Speaker 1: there's some experience for you. But if you've got kids

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Speaker 1: who are on a pathway and know what they're doing,

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Speaker 1: choice is a good thing. And it may be that

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Speaker 1: English isn't what they need in year twelve or thirteen

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Speaker 1: or eleven or whatever. You know, they may be going

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Speaker 1: somewhere else whereas this takes that away from them.

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Speaker 2: No, not really. We are trying to get that balance right,

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Speaker 2: the perfect balance of flexibility with consistency, taking away some

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Speaker 2: of the complexity for more simplicity. But there will be choice.

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Speaker 2: We are saying you have to do foundationals, English and

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Speaker 2: maths when you're in year eleven. Most schools do that already,

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Speaker 2: some don't, so we're making that compulsory. After that, fil

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Speaker 2: your boots. Choose the subjects that engage you, that lead

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Speaker 2: to career pathways that you want. But the key difference

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Speaker 2: will be when you study English or maths or physics,

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Speaker 2: it will be against a world leading benchmarked curriculum and

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Speaker 2: you will learn the same thing as a child and

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Speaker 2: invercargo compared to walk trure.

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Speaker 1: So here's part of the problem. Part of the problem

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Speaker 1: will be is you're going to need to limit subjects,

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Speaker 1: aren't you from what we've currently got. Once you've limited subjects,

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Speaker 1: I'm looking at these subjects I don't really want to

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Speaker 1: be at school. It's a bit boring. So I used

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Speaker 1: to do dance and drama or whatever it may be.

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Speaker 1: Now I've got to take something serious and I may

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Speaker 1: well fail. And when I fail, then what happens.

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Speaker 2: I'm not sure where everyone's getting this view that we're

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Speaker 2: going to be limiting all these subjects. We are taking

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Speaker 2: a look at the subject list. This is a separate

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Speaker 2: stream of work, separate to the qualification. We are looking

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Speaker 2: at the amount of subjects we have and saying, look,

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Speaker 2: how many children did them last year? How many children

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Speaker 2: just did one stand in and going do we still

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Speaker 2: need to be doing that? But that happens all the time.

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Speaker 2: We still want to have choice. My children should still

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Speaker 2: be doing darce and drama and the things that excite

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Speaker 2: them and lead them maybe into the theater or whatever.

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Speaker 2: So those things will still be available. Of course, what.

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Speaker 1: About the trade side of the equation? How limited will

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Speaker 1: that be depending on where you are in the country geographically,

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Speaker 1: in the size of your school.

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Speaker 2: That is a challenge and I've said publicly I want

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Speaker 2: the VET pathways to be strong and industry aligned and

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Speaker 2: relevant and tertiary aligned. The challenge of courses that schools

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Speaker 2: aren't always able to have an automotive electrician or engineer

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Speaker 2: in their school. We have to partner with the polytechs

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Speaker 2: and also the private training organizations to make this work.

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Speaker 2: And this is I'm not going to pretend this is

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Speaker 2: going to be an easy piece of work. It's going

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Speaker 2: to be tough, but we're going to do it. We're

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Speaker 2: going to make sure that no matter which school you're in,

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Speaker 2: you have access to these pathways, and we will work

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Speaker 2: with the industry standards boards to make sure the standards

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Speaker 2: are relevant.

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Speaker 1: The answer will come in the exam results, I'm assuming,

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Speaker 1: But when will we know this works? So if it

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Speaker 1: starts in twenty seven, twenty eight, so twenty eight, when

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Speaker 1: do we know it works?

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Speaker 2: Well, we will already know from next year because the

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Speaker 2: English and Maths curriculum are gazetted for next year for

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Speaker 2: our third forms or year ninees, so they will start

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Speaker 2: to use the new curriculum and then the other subjects

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Speaker 2: will roll through as well. So we will start to

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Speaker 2: already see the results of the new curriculum through the

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Speaker 2: other assessment tools that we use and teach a feedback

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Speaker 2: and score feedback before we get there.

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Speaker 1: Okay, put your immigration hat on just quickly, Golden Beza's

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Speaker 1: are they still continuing to bring people in with money?

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Speaker 2: They are. It has a tape it off slightly, but

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Speaker 2: it's a huge amount stronger than I thought it would be.

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Speaker 2: I said two hundred in the first year. I think

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Speaker 2: we were at two hundred in the first six weeks

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Speaker 2: or ten weeks, so it's still very strong, although I

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Speaker 2: would say that if you know they have the ability

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Speaker 2: to be able to buy a house, that will supercharge

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Speaker 2: it again.

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Speaker 1: You know, Erica, you have the power to do that.

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Speaker 1: Funnily enough, because you're in government.

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Speaker 2: Here are some things so slightly ahead of my paypack

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Speaker 2: at that in the country. Well, I've had my say

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Speaker 2: and I've said publicly and I've said to other people

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Speaker 2: in my party and the government, if you're going to

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Speaker 2: ask people to come in and invest at least five

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Speaker 2: if not ten, mate, potentially we want more out of them.

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Speaker 2: Of course, then saying to them but you can't buy

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Speaker 2: a house is not ideal. And like I think everyone

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Speaker 2: in government is pretty pragmatic about that, and there are

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Speaker 2: conversations that have been had and I expect that there

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Speaker 2: will most likely be some changes. But look, as I've said, ahead,

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Speaker 2: it's above my pay grade and that's sort of leader

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Speaker 2: to leader as it should be.

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Speaker 1: All right, good stuff. Nice to see erin Stampord, education

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Speaker 1: and immigration ministers. For more from the my CA Asking

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Speaker 1: Breakfast listen live to news talks that'd be from six

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Speaker 1: am weekdays, or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,