WEBVTT - Leighton Smith Podcast #276 - March 19th 2025 - Michael De Percy 0:00:09.093 --> 0:00:12.693 You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow 0:00:12.773 --> 0:00:16.173 this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 0:00:17.013 --> 0:00:20.013 It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all 0:00:20.093 --> 0:00:25.133 the information, all the debates of us Now the Leighton 0:00:25.253 --> 0:00:27.933 Smith podcast Power by News Talks EDB. 0:00:28.973 --> 0:00:32.213 Welcome to Podcasts two hundred and seventy six for March nineteen, 0:00:32.333 --> 0:00:36.893 twenty twenty five. Doctor Michael de Percy is a political 0:00:36.933 --> 0:00:40.493 scientist and the Faculty of Business, Government and Law at 0:00:40.533 --> 0:00:43.493 the University of Canberra. He says the education system is 0:00:43.533 --> 0:00:47.933 exhausted and AI is going to replace so many people. 0:00:48.613 --> 0:00:52.493 But he says what he calls the inertia in institutions 0:00:52.573 --> 0:00:57.133 spreads far wider the WHO and the United Nations. For example. 0:00:57.613 --> 0:01:00.133 Now in last week's podcast, I dropped in a short 0:01:00.173 --> 0:01:04.853 paragraph at one stage that read, Trump's art of the 0:01:04.933 --> 0:01:07.973 deal is the most democratic thing we have seen since 0:01:08.053 --> 0:01:12.653 the experts told us to trust the science. Einstein reportedly 0:01:12.693 --> 0:01:15.453 said that one fact, rather than a hundred experts, could 0:01:15.533 --> 0:01:18.693 prove him wrong. Trump has done in less than two 0:01:18.733 --> 0:01:22.093 months what thousands of experts have failed to do in years. 0:01:22.373 --> 0:01:25.093 And that is a fact. And that was the final 0:01:25.173 --> 0:01:28.653 paragraph from an article by Michael de Percy, Trump's Art 0:01:28.693 --> 0:01:31.533 of the Deal, Trump's the Science. And that's how we 0:01:31.653 --> 0:01:35.693 begin the interview and then cover a raft of other 0:01:35.973 --> 0:01:39.933 interesting and pressing topics, but first a covet of other 0:01:39.973 --> 0:01:44.213 things that interest me and I believe interests you connected 0:01:44.253 --> 0:01:48.453 to areas that affect the whole world at the moment, 0:01:48.533 --> 0:01:52.853 well pretty much certainly us and where this story actually 0:01:52.933 --> 0:01:57.093 emanates from. I attended Apple's and your meeting. It was 0:01:57.133 --> 0:02:01.653 a turning point against ESG ANDDI. Keeping in mind that 0:02:02.613 --> 0:02:07.573 ESG is Environmental, Social and governance. I attended Apple's annual 0:02:07.613 --> 0:02:10.373 meetings several weeks ago. I saw many signs of how 0:02:10.453 --> 0:02:14.053 corporate culture is shifting away from ESG and DEEI now 0:02:14.093 --> 0:02:17.733 to understand why. Let's briefly discuss the basics of how 0:02:17.773 --> 0:02:22.413 people actually engage with minor corporations and goes into some detail. 0:02:23.493 --> 0:02:25.893 I'm going to pass on that and skip to the 0:02:25.893 --> 0:02:31.813 final paragraph. The activist class that pushes for ESG, DEI 0:02:32.053 --> 0:02:36.253 and biased corporate policies now has to contend with their 0:02:36.253 --> 0:02:41.453 worst nightmares. Shareholders who want businesses to focus on business, 0:02:41.493 --> 0:02:46.493 not politics. A growing infrastructure is committed to maximizing pro 0:02:46.813 --> 0:02:53.133 fiduciary influence at America's biggest companies, and the political space 0:02:53.213 --> 0:02:58.253 is incredibly ripe for this action. Apple is just the beginning, 0:02:59.373 --> 0:03:02.533 Laten Smith for many across the world. A US Federal 0:03:02.533 --> 0:03:06.573 Reserves decision to exit the network for greening the financial 0:03:06.773 --> 0:03:13.173 system is that central banks can refocus on their primary mandates. Well, 0:03:13.173 --> 0:03:19.413 who would have thought stabilizing economies, controlling inflation and fostering growth. Currently, 0:03:19.893 --> 0:03:24.693 ENNGFS membership includes central banks and financial institutions from twenty 0:03:24.693 --> 0:03:27.853 two countries in Africa, thirty two in Asia Pacific, and 0:03:27.933 --> 0:03:32.533 twenty in the Americas, which may now be emboldened to 0:03:32.613 --> 0:03:38.453 reevaluate and abandon whatever priority they have assigned to climates initiatives. 0:03:39.053 --> 0:03:42.253 It then gets on to another matter, but it's associated. 0:03:42.653 --> 0:03:46.813 For instance, Canada's federal government has implemented a plethora of 0:03:46.893 --> 0:03:52.293 climate policies, leading to higher carbon taxes, more volatility in 0:03:52.333 --> 0:03:56.613 the energy sector, lower export income, and overall disastrous state 0:03:56.693 --> 0:04:01.293 of the economy. Aspiring to drive Canada toward more climate 0:04:01.413 --> 0:04:05.813 idiocy is Mark Karney, recently elected Canada's Prime Minister by 0:04:05.853 --> 0:04:09.413 the ruling Liberal party. However, other Kannadians have different thoughts. 0:04:09.453 --> 0:04:13.333 Major banks across North America relieving Mark Carney's international net 0:04:13.453 --> 0:04:18.373 zero banking scheme, but some Canadian banks remain members. According 0:04:18.453 --> 0:04:23.213 to Rebecca Schultz, Alberta Minister of the Environment in protected areas, 0:04:24.013 --> 0:04:28.933 the remaining Canadian banks must abandon Carne's net zero banking 0:04:29.093 --> 0:04:35.413 alliance and invest in safe, affordable, reliable Canadian energy again, 0:04:35.973 --> 0:04:39.973 according to the minister, isn't that an amazing comment in 0:04:40.013 --> 0:04:43.453 this day and age, how quickly things can turn. By 0:04:43.493 --> 0:04:46.493 the way, Mark Carney will be a disaster. I think 0:04:46.493 --> 0:04:49.173 I've said this somewhere else. He will be a disaster 0:04:49.533 --> 0:04:53.573 and the Opposition leader would make a damn fine Prime minister. Now, 0:04:54.093 --> 0:04:58.453 leading from that, with regard to central banks, let's move 0:04:58.493 --> 0:05:02.453 to our own and Professor McCulloch on the fourth of March, 0:05:02.573 --> 0:05:06.613 which was about the same time that Adrian Or did 0:05:06.653 --> 0:05:09.293 his great walk out the door, never to be seen again, 0:05:10.413 --> 0:05:12.453 and he wrote this, and I don't know whether it's 0:05:12.453 --> 0:05:16.373 before or after the exit, but either way it's very good, 0:05:16.613 --> 0:05:19.733 McCulloch says. Over the past six months, interest rates in 0:05:19.773 --> 0:05:24.093 Australia had barely changed. Their official cash rate was four 0:05:24.133 --> 0:05:26.413 point five percent back then and is now four point 0:05:26.453 --> 0:05:30.973 twenty five. Not so in New Zealand. Our ocr has 0:05:31.013 --> 0:05:34.333 swung from five point five to three point seventy five, 0:05:34.653 --> 0:05:39.493 plummeting nearly two percentage points. How come well, Just over 0:05:39.533 --> 0:05:41.733 six months ago, the Reserve Bank of New Zealand was 0:05:41.813 --> 0:05:46.813 doing shock and awe O double ar It was desperately 0:05:46.853 --> 0:05:50.813 trying to engineer a recession to quell the runaway inflation 0:05:51.373 --> 0:05:54.813 that was caused by its runaway printing money program known 0:05:54.813 --> 0:05:59.293 as quantitative easing. Six months later, New Zealand languishes as 0:05:59.333 --> 0:06:04.053 one of the world's worst performing economies. I'm unaware of 0:06:04.093 --> 0:06:06.333 whether you know this or not, of course, but I 0:06:06.413 --> 0:06:11.293 didn't For some reason, I hadn't picked this up. We repeat, 0:06:12.173 --> 0:06:15.893 New Zealand languishes is one of the world's worst performing economies, 0:06:16.293 --> 0:06:20.773 coming in at one eighty one out of one ninety 0:06:20.813 --> 0:06:25.493 country in terms of the IMS Economic growth numbers one 0:06:25.613 --> 0:06:28.973 hundred and eighty first out of one hundred and ninety countries. 0:06:29.573 --> 0:06:33.973 How low can this country slump? So now the RBNZ 0:06:34.253 --> 0:06:38.573 has a new genius strategy engineer a boom. The proof 0:06:38.613 --> 0:06:41.293 is in the Yel curve below. It shows one of 0:06:41.333 --> 0:06:44.333 the wildest swings of any country that I've looked at 0:06:44.773 --> 0:06:47.653 six months ago, our short term rates were way above 0:06:47.693 --> 0:06:51.373 our long rates. Now the situation is reversed. The graph 0:06:51.373 --> 0:06:54.613 shows how New Zealand has gone from panic tightening to 0:06:54.813 --> 0:06:58.733 panic loosening. Yes, the Kiwi economy is characterized by a 0:06:58.773 --> 0:07:02.573 close to zero sloped trend line rate of economic growth, 0:07:02.813 --> 0:07:07.533 but with wild reserve bank induced booms and busts around 0:07:07.533 --> 0:07:11.573 that near zero productivity increasing trend the worst way to 0:07:11.653 --> 0:07:14.813 run a nation. National's response was to renew the contract 0:07:14.853 --> 0:07:18.653 of why Cata University Vice Chancellor Neil Quigley last year. 0:07:19.093 --> 0:07:22.373 The well connected man who has presided over this fiasco 0:07:22.613 --> 0:07:25.013 as Chairman of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand good 0:07:25.013 --> 0:07:29.013 one National. He concludes, what can I add to it? 0:07:29.413 --> 0:07:29.733 Nothing? 0:07:30.373 --> 0:07:33.253 However, there is some housekeeping that I need to deliver 0:07:33.493 --> 0:07:37.733 unto you. For podcast two seven five. Nobody got an 0:07:37.773 --> 0:07:41.453 email on the Wednesday of release. You did get emails 0:07:41.613 --> 0:07:46.853 on this most recent Sunday. I cannot explain it to 0:07:46.893 --> 0:07:49.613 you in great detail. What I know is that I've 0:07:49.613 --> 0:07:55.133 got a notification on Wednesday evening after the podcast had 0:07:55.733 --> 0:07:59.293 gone up. I think that there would be no emails 0:07:59.533 --> 0:08:04.493 because of some technical changes, and those technical changes are ongoing. 0:08:04.853 --> 0:08:08.213 Don't ask me, it's too complicated for my simple mind. 0:08:08.733 --> 0:08:12.173 But there are some further changes that I now would 0:08:12.213 --> 0:08:15.493 like to make you aware of. You will get one 0:08:15.773 --> 0:08:18.813 today if you're on the list. Of course you have 0:08:18.853 --> 0:08:21.693 to subscribe to It doesn't cost you anything to subscribe. 0:08:21.693 --> 0:08:24.453 You can just get yourself listed and you get an email, 0:08:25.893 --> 0:08:29.453 usually on a Wednesday, So there is one today, a 0:08:29.493 --> 0:08:32.733 normal email. Then on Sunday next to twenty third of March, 0:08:32.773 --> 0:08:36.133 there's a further selection of episodes from twenty twenty five 0:08:36.493 --> 0:08:40.093 so far. Then Wednesday of next week there will be 0:08:40.173 --> 0:08:43.613 no email. Please keep that in mind, so you simply 0:08:43.653 --> 0:08:46.613 have to go help yourself to it from Newstalks AB 0:08:46.733 --> 0:08:50.973 dot co dot nz in the podcast section. Next Wednesday, 0:08:51.373 --> 0:08:54.733 no email. They're on Friday, the twenty eighth of March. 0:08:54.893 --> 0:08:59.173 The Wednesday email content will fall into your box. Amazing, 0:08:59.253 --> 0:09:03.053 isn't it? Anyway? They're doing their best to cover this off, 0:09:03.613 --> 0:09:06.413 and it's all to do with improvements they're making too well. 0:09:06.653 --> 0:09:10.973 I don't know whatever they think Opensteed making too pardon 0:09:10.973 --> 0:09:13.973 by ignorance, but I don't care. I do care that 0:09:14.013 --> 0:09:15.893 you're not getting your email, but I don't care why 0:09:16.453 --> 0:09:18.893 that's just the way that it is now in a 0:09:19.053 --> 0:09:25.333 moment or two. Michael de Percy, Doctor Michael de Percy 0:09:25.613 --> 0:09:29.453 is a political scientist and a political commentator. He has 0:09:29.573 --> 0:09:33.733 a long list of credits. Fellow of the Royal Society 0:09:33.773 --> 0:09:36.533 of Arts, a Chartered Fellow of the Chartered Institute of 0:09:36.973 --> 0:09:40.773 Institute of Logistics and Transport, is a member of the 0:09:40.853 --> 0:09:43.533 Royal Society of New South Wales, editor in chief of 0:09:43.573 --> 0:09:47.813 the Journal of Telecommunications and the Digital Economy, and a 0:09:47.813 --> 0:09:50.893 member of the Australian Nuclear Association. He is a graduate 0:09:50.933 --> 0:09:54.533 of the Royal Military College of Duntrue. He was appointed 0:09:54.573 --> 0:09:58.213 to the College of Experts which bothers me at the 0:09:58.253 --> 0:10:02.573 Australian Research Council in twenty twenty two. He also was 0:10:03.053 --> 0:10:06.013 a graduate of Australian National University and he is a 0:10:06.053 --> 0:10:10.013 senior lecturer at the University of Canbra's very good to 0:10:10.013 --> 0:10:12.893 have you on the podcast. I read your latest piece, 0:10:13.013 --> 0:10:16.693 Trump's Art of the Deal, Trump's the Science, and I 0:10:16.773 --> 0:10:19.613 thought got to have you. Thank you, great to be here. 0:10:20.053 --> 0:10:23.333 What do you mean, Trump's Art of the Deal, Trump's 0:10:23.773 --> 0:10:24.373 the Science. 0:10:26.173 --> 0:10:29.653 The first thing I'll say is that I teach political 0:10:29.733 --> 0:10:32.653 leadership and a few years ago with my students who 0:10:32.693 --> 0:10:36.373 were looking at how do we measure leaders And one 0:10:36.413 --> 0:10:37.693 of the things we were looking at at the time 0:10:37.773 --> 0:10:40.533 was Barack Obama. And over a period of eight years, 0:10:40.573 --> 0:10:44.173 when you actually lined up what he'd actually achieved, it 0:10:44.213 --> 0:10:47.373 was all symbolic. So symbolism obviously is a big part 0:10:47.373 --> 0:10:51.813 of political leadership, but the actual achievements were very minor. 0:10:52.573 --> 0:10:55.613 In fact, probably Obamacare was his major achievement, which was 0:10:55.653 --> 0:10:59.733 effectively undone in the first Trump administration. So I started 0:10:59.773 --> 0:11:04.893 looking a bit deeper into this idea of achievements and 0:11:04.933 --> 0:11:10.053 what presidents in particular actually achieved, and when we come 0:11:10.133 --> 0:11:15.293 to the second Trump administration, it's very interesting that Trump, 0:11:15.373 --> 0:11:18.653 when he makes a deal, he starts with the worst 0:11:18.693 --> 0:11:21.053 case scenario. So you can imagine, you know, basically the 0:11:21.093 --> 0:11:25.013 strongest man in history at this point in time, and 0:11:25.373 --> 0:11:27.373 if you're dealing with him, he's going to give you 0:11:27.413 --> 0:11:31.453 this apocalypse apocalyptic sort of idea of what the future 0:11:31.453 --> 0:11:36.773 could be like as his starting point. He then uses 0:11:36.773 --> 0:11:39.173 that to create all of this sort of disruption and 0:11:39.253 --> 0:11:43.813 puts the person he's negotiating with into this state of disarray. 0:11:44.333 --> 0:11:48.533 He then sort of dials that back to ultimately achieve 0:11:48.853 --> 0:11:52.053 what he's after. And the unfortunate thing I find is 0:11:52.093 --> 0:11:54.053 that for the leader of the free world, the free 0:11:54.053 --> 0:11:57.093 world's not supporting him. And we have all of these experts. 0:11:57.133 --> 0:11:59.973 Each time he tries to or begins making a deal, 0:12:00.013 --> 0:12:03.213 we have all of these experts. I noted you mentioned 0:12:03.213 --> 0:12:06.573 my membership of the College of Experts of Istralian Research Council. 0:12:06.613 --> 0:12:09.413 But the point that I'm making is that these people 0:12:09.613 --> 0:12:12.853 Donald Trump, presidents of the US, our own prime ministers 0:12:12.853 --> 0:12:16.053 and the like, they're actually elected by a majority of people, 0:12:16.093 --> 0:12:19.333 which is what liberal democracy is all about. And unfortunately, 0:12:19.413 --> 0:12:25.093 instead of having these people being backed by those experts, 0:12:26.413 --> 0:12:30.773 effectively the experts are disagreeing with the voters. And Australian 0:12:30.773 --> 0:12:34.453 Prime Minister John Howard famously said that the voters are 0:12:34.493 --> 0:12:37.893 always right in a liberal democracy, if you get voted in, 0:12:38.373 --> 0:12:41.853 it's the correct solution, that's what the people wanted. Unfortunately, 0:12:41.853 --> 0:12:44.853 what we're seeing when Trump's trying to make these deals 0:12:45.333 --> 0:12:49.493 immediately people are jumping on board saying that you know 0:12:49.773 --> 0:12:52.853 this is this is not how things ought to be done, 0:12:53.093 --> 0:12:55.773 you know the president's wrong, or you know that this 0:12:55.853 --> 0:12:59.933 is disastrous for democracy and the ridiculous thing is that 0:13:00.373 --> 0:13:04.173 in every measure, Donald Trump has been elected with an 0:13:04.573 --> 0:13:09.293 outright majority across the board, in every measure of electoral success. 0:13:09.333 --> 0:13:13.533 He achieved it the most recent US election, And I'm 0:13:13.533 --> 0:13:16.453 finding it bizarre that as he's making these deals on 0:13:16.493 --> 0:13:20.293 behalf of the American people, and with that the Anglo 0:13:20.813 --> 0:13:24.333 liberal democracies, the people just aren't getting on board with it, 0:13:24.373 --> 0:13:26.933 and they're sort of going off in their own expert opinions, 0:13:27.333 --> 0:13:31.373 which frankly are great for advice, but they're not representative 0:13:31.373 --> 0:13:33.573 of the people that voted these people into power. 0:13:33.733 --> 0:13:35.093 Are they expert opinions? 0:13:35.093 --> 0:13:38.853 Though? Well, that's the other thing. If you were to 0:13:38.853 --> 0:13:44.093 look at expertise in particular. Now you know, obviously different 0:13:44.133 --> 0:13:48.413 people have these different views. In the US. Meerscheimer and 0:13:48.453 --> 0:13:54.133 others have even gone against Trump, which I found quite 0:13:54.133 --> 0:13:59.253 bizarre because traditionally they're very much about liberal institutionalism, and 0:13:59.333 --> 0:14:01.933 when we look at liberal institutionalism effective, we were talking 0:14:01.933 --> 0:14:06.533 about the liberal as in small l liberal, not in 0:14:06.533 --> 0:14:09.413 the American sense of the word, but as the individual 0:14:09.573 --> 0:14:12.533 is most capable of making their own decisions for themselves, 0:14:12.933 --> 0:14:16.413 which leads to free speech and other ideas about liberal democracy. 0:14:17.013 --> 0:14:21.053 And in our world order. Traditionally, the United Nations was 0:14:21.093 --> 0:14:24.733 founded on these liberal democratic principles, which of course have 0:14:24.853 --> 0:14:30.893 now been captured by smaller, non liberal democratic countries, which 0:14:30.933 --> 0:14:34.173 means that the UN is effectively moved away from its mandate. 0:14:34.493 --> 0:14:37.573 It's exhausted, it's been captured by other interests. And of 0:14:37.573 --> 0:14:40.853 course the US has let this slide by not funding 0:14:40.893 --> 0:14:44.493 it as it may once have. And of course Donald 0:14:44.493 --> 0:14:47.893 Trump is in the business of undoing the world order 0:14:47.933 --> 0:14:52.693 that effectively is no longer achieving its aim of bringing 0:14:53.373 --> 0:14:56.933 liberals sort of democratic capitalism to the world. 0:14:57.493 --> 0:15:02.453 What is it do you think that prevents other world leaders, commentators, 0:15:02.493 --> 0:15:08.893 experts from appreciating Trump for what he actually istently you do? 0:15:09.453 --> 0:15:10.973 Where are they coming up short? 0:15:11.573 --> 0:15:16.453 It's interesting that this whole idea of woke and look wokeism, 0:15:16.653 --> 0:15:19.733 the wokarati and someone that these terms are not necessarily 0:15:19.773 --> 0:15:23.333 well defined. But I would put it in terms of 0:15:23.853 --> 0:15:26.333 and sorry if I go a bit into history here, 0:15:26.373 --> 0:15:30.373 but if we look at what we love, if we 0:15:30.373 --> 0:15:34.573 look at John Stuart Mill and his classic work on liberty, 0:15:35.853 --> 0:15:38.653 Mill look for the modern reader. If you read on 0:15:38.693 --> 0:15:41.333 liberty now you're thinking, oh, there's nothing new in this 0:15:41.333 --> 0:15:43.893 this this is basically how we live. But in Mill's 0:15:43.893 --> 0:15:47.213 time it was radical. But one of the things that 0:15:47.253 --> 0:15:54.133 there was a critique a quality fraternity. And I'm sorry, 0:15:54.173 --> 0:15:56.133 I should should be able to recall this off the 0:15:56.133 --> 0:16:02.173 top of my head, but in effect a critic wrote, uh, 0:16:02.573 --> 0:16:07.453 this this this piece where he argued that liberalism in 0:16:07.533 --> 0:16:12.773 it or individualism in its extreme, would actually be dangerous 0:16:12.773 --> 0:16:17.173 for society. And what we're sort of seeing is that 0:16:18.173 --> 0:16:23.733 the woke movement was about extreme individualism related with identity politics, 0:16:24.093 --> 0:16:27.893 but to the point where the individual no longer head 0:16:28.013 --> 0:16:31.413 for the concept of the common good. And the common 0:16:31.453 --> 0:16:35.973 good is basically where individuals act in their own self interest, 0:16:36.013 --> 0:16:38.893 but they also have this sort of tide of the 0:16:38.933 --> 0:16:43.653 community that enables them to act within their own self interest, 0:16:43.733 --> 0:16:47.093 but in a way where they're basically looking after themselves 0:16:47.373 --> 0:16:50.053 so that nobody else has to look after them. And 0:16:50.093 --> 0:16:53.293 you can imagine that as a society has more and 0:16:53.373 --> 0:16:55.733 more people who need the society to look after them, 0:16:55.733 --> 0:16:57.693 eventually we're going to run out of people who are 0:16:57.693 --> 0:17:01.813 actually doing the heavy lifting. And so this idea of 0:17:02.413 --> 0:17:06.253 extreme individualism at the expense of the common good has 0:17:06.293 --> 0:17:08.973 got to a point where it's so many of us 0:17:09.013 --> 0:17:12.013 are carrying those who are not carrying themselves. Now, this 0:17:12.333 --> 0:17:16.453 originated in the United States, and so it's interesting that, 0:17:16.573 --> 0:17:21.253 particularly here in Australia, we tend to be years behind 0:17:21.253 --> 0:17:24.613 the United States. So any trend, even disastrous trends, that 0:17:24.693 --> 0:17:27.893 start there, we tend to take on years later, even 0:17:27.933 --> 0:17:29.893 when we're seeing the evidence that it's just you know, 0:17:30.413 --> 0:17:34.173 it's a disaster. And so this woke idea of extreme 0:17:34.213 --> 0:17:38.253 individualism through identity politics is something that's been picked up here, 0:17:38.293 --> 0:17:41.053 but also in the UK to some extent, New Zealand, 0:17:41.093 --> 0:17:44.853 and certainly certainly in Canada. And I refer to these 0:17:44.853 --> 0:17:51.293 countries as the Anglo liberal democracies. And in many ways 0:17:51.493 --> 0:17:54.293 what we've got at the moment are leftist governments in Canada, 0:17:54.373 --> 0:17:58.173 the UK, and certainly in Australia. And these governments have 0:17:58.253 --> 0:18:02.333 sort of run full bottle with the extreme individualism of 0:18:02.373 --> 0:18:05.893 identity politics at the expense of the common good, to 0:18:05.933 --> 0:18:09.253 the point where governments are actually funding all of these 0:18:09.293 --> 0:18:15.133 initiatives beyond their means. So in the Australian capital territory Victoria, 0:18:15.173 --> 0:18:19.453 for example, the state government in Australia is well beyond 0:18:19.453 --> 0:18:22.493 its means carrying the debt that is actually now starting 0:18:22.533 --> 0:18:25.653 to affect other citizens in Australia. And of course the 0:18:25.653 --> 0:18:30.413 Australian government has been spending on subsidizing renewables and other 0:18:30.573 --> 0:18:34.973 sort of economic policies that aren't necessarily working because the 0:18:35.013 --> 0:18:36.653 cost of living is just out of control. 0:18:36.733 --> 0:18:40.893 Can I just ask you a question there, what the 0:18:40.893 --> 0:18:44.333 Australian government has been spending money on. We now know, 0:18:44.453 --> 0:18:48.013 of course that if we didn't know before that in 0:18:48.053 --> 0:18:50.973 the US money has been dumped in all sorts of 0:18:51.013 --> 0:18:55.733 places and disappeared forever. In other words, it's not accounted for, 0:18:56.093 --> 0:19:00.133 and it's being handed out to people who don't deserve it. 0:19:00.133 --> 0:19:04.093 It's being wasted. Is it the same to any degree 0:19:04.413 --> 0:19:05.693 in Australia do you think? 0:19:06.013 --> 0:19:09.293 Well, I'm not sure about waste. We haven't had that 0:19:09.413 --> 0:19:13.853 level of transparency which the Department of Government Efficiency is 0:19:13.893 --> 0:19:16.253 looking into in the US. But it's certainly something that 0:19:16.493 --> 0:19:18.253 I hope will be a trend that we do follow 0:19:18.333 --> 0:19:20.893 with sometime in the future. A lot of it is 0:19:20.893 --> 0:19:26.053 to do with green eye ideals about energy and industry, 0:19:26.573 --> 0:19:31.053 and we see this most recently in our Wala steel works, 0:19:31.493 --> 0:19:35.333 where effectively they've been pursuing this sort of green steel idea, 0:19:35.893 --> 0:19:40.093 which hasn't been commercialized anywhere in the world. There is 0:19:40.093 --> 0:19:43.533 a German outfit that's trialing it, but it's not commercial 0:19:43.573 --> 0:19:46.573 it's not standalone at this stage. So Australia has been 0:19:46.613 --> 0:19:53.053 pursuing these green ideals where effectively it's not commercially viable, 0:19:53.493 --> 0:19:56.093 and hydrogen in particular is one of these areas. So 0:19:56.133 --> 0:20:00.493 we've got all of these subsidies going to the renewable sector, 0:20:01.013 --> 0:20:03.813 and we've got all this critique about the potential for 0:20:03.893 --> 0:20:07.333 nuclear to fill this gap to fix the problems we're 0:20:07.373 --> 0:20:11.213 experiencing our energy sector, but unfortunately we don't know how 0:20:11.293 --> 0:20:13.893 much this is costing. So we've kind of got this 0:20:13.933 --> 0:20:17.293 political debate where nuclear is the enemy and it's going 0:20:17.333 --> 0:20:20.533 to cost half a trillion dollars or whatever. We actually 0:20:20.613 --> 0:20:23.573 actually have no idea how much the subsidization of the 0:20:23.653 --> 0:20:26.773 energy sector is costing us in the meantime. And not 0:20:26.813 --> 0:20:30.453 only that, it's one of those inner city versus the 0:20:30.493 --> 0:20:34.773 regions situations where what we have is people in the 0:20:34.813 --> 0:20:38.733 inner city are quite happy to have renewable energy to 0:20:38.733 --> 0:20:41.133 feel good about themselves, while people in the regions are 0:20:41.133 --> 0:20:44.413 actually suffering from the externalities that are caused by this 0:20:44.493 --> 0:20:47.813 change in the energy system. And in fact, what we're 0:20:47.853 --> 0:20:50.213 finding is it's not even cheaper. It's going up again 0:20:50.333 --> 0:20:53.213 by some nine percent in July this year, so it 0:20:53.333 --> 0:20:55.373 just keeps going up and up. It's not achieving its 0:20:55.373 --> 0:20:56.053 original aim. 0:20:57.053 --> 0:20:59.693 Well, I'm going to say that we're in no better 0:20:59.933 --> 0:21:05.373 condition than you are, but for possibly somewhat different reasons. 0:21:05.893 --> 0:21:10.213 I mean, we rely a lot on water, and there 0:21:10.293 --> 0:21:13.413 is a very deep concern at the moment from anyone 0:21:13.453 --> 0:21:16.533 with any intelligence because we've had a very dry summer 0:21:17.213 --> 0:21:21.773 and we are under threat with electricity supply. In the meantime, 0:21:21.773 --> 0:21:25.373 of course, we're importing because we under the previous labor 0:21:25.413 --> 0:21:29.213 government such as it was, we banned we've banned coal 0:21:29.253 --> 0:21:33.613 mining and searches for oil and gas, etc. And now 0:21:33.653 --> 0:21:38.613 we import cheap crap coal from Indonesia. It's really quite 0:21:38.653 --> 0:21:43.533 an extraordinary scenario. And at this particular moment, if we 0:21:43.573 --> 0:21:46.053 don't get rained very soon, then we're going to go 0:21:46.053 --> 0:21:49.293 into blackout zone. Now you've i think already suffered in 0:21:49.333 --> 0:21:51.173 some parts of the country from blackouts, have you. 0:21:51.133 --> 0:21:55.653 Not, Yes, Yes, that's definitely been the case. We've definitely 0:21:55.733 --> 0:22:03.013 suffered from blackouts and other problems, especially during storms and 0:22:03.093 --> 0:22:06.173 floods and other things. But some of these have also 0:22:06.253 --> 0:22:10.293 been self indue just by a lack of capacity in 0:22:10.333 --> 0:22:10.813 the sector. 0:22:11.573 --> 0:22:15.013 There is a very large exit number of people from 0:22:15.013 --> 0:22:19.813 this country going to Australia, and it's slowed down, but 0:22:19.853 --> 0:22:23.333 it hasn't disappeared by any stretch of the imagination. Give 0:22:23.373 --> 0:22:25.413 you an example, and I get quite a bit of this. 0:22:25.893 --> 0:22:29.493 I received a letter after last week's podcast from somebody 0:22:29.573 --> 0:22:33.733 who said that they are leaving the country again. They're 0:22:33.773 --> 0:22:36.013 going to Australia because their kids are there. They can't 0:22:36.053 --> 0:22:40.733 get work here. All highly qualified at university level, can't 0:22:40.733 --> 0:22:44.813 get jobs here, and so they're in Australia and the 0:22:44.893 --> 0:22:47.853 parents are now going over. Also added by the way, 0:22:47.853 --> 0:22:50.253 and I don't know quite how this fits in that 0:22:50.333 --> 0:22:54.653 they may return to the US, so possibly they came 0:22:54.693 --> 0:22:57.133 from there in the host place. I don't know. They 0:22:57.133 --> 0:22:58.853 may return to the US, but they're waiting to see 0:22:58.853 --> 0:23:03.413 how Trump turns out. But that is one example. Three 0:23:03.493 --> 0:23:07.093 kids all in Australia because they can't get work here, 0:23:07.733 --> 0:23:10.933 and that is what is inspiring so many to live. 0:23:11.093 --> 0:23:13.853 Of our mixed family of four We've got two in 0:23:13.893 --> 0:23:16.933 London and two here. The two here, well, one of 0:23:16.973 --> 0:23:18.973 the two here would like to would like to go 0:23:19.013 --> 0:23:23.213 to the States and will probably end up in Australia. 0:23:23.453 --> 0:23:27.053 Is it noticeable to you. I know that the numbers 0:23:27.093 --> 0:23:30.213 are increasing in Canberra, the population is increasing in Canbra 0:23:30.333 --> 0:23:33.373 some say that it's increasing at the highest highest rate 0:23:33.453 --> 0:23:38.413 of any parts of Australia. But is there a noticeable 0:23:38.493 --> 0:23:40.733 increase Do you think of New Zealand as in Australia 0:23:40.773 --> 0:23:42.573 from your perspective now. 0:23:42.733 --> 0:23:45.773 Not from my perspective, And it's difficult to tell at 0:23:45.773 --> 0:23:48.253 the moment because we seem to be taking on a 0:23:48.253 --> 0:23:52.573 lot of so called refugees from the Middle East and elsewhere, 0:23:52.893 --> 0:23:55.293 and that's been more of a sort of noticeable problem. 0:23:55.573 --> 0:23:58.653 I think the relationship between Australia and New Zealand, you know, 0:23:58.653 --> 0:24:01.213 and the anzac spirit. I mean, you know, we don't 0:24:01.253 --> 0:24:05.133 even think of Australia and New Zealand as separate countries 0:24:05.213 --> 0:24:09.733 or cultures, despite the formalities. So look, I must admit 0:24:09.733 --> 0:24:14.253 I'm not noticing that sort of influx. But it's interesting 0:24:14.293 --> 0:24:17.853 too though that in terms of employment opportunities, one of 0:24:17.893 --> 0:24:19.733 the things that's happening in Australia at the moment is 0:24:19.813 --> 0:24:24.573 employment is quite unemployment is extremely low, but the reason 0:24:24.653 --> 0:24:27.013 is because most of the jobs are government jobs, so 0:24:28.093 --> 0:24:31.733 it's kind of a false economy in that regard. But 0:24:31.813 --> 0:24:35.333 at the same time, Canberra is certainly growing because the 0:24:35.373 --> 0:24:39.173 public service has been growing some thirty six thousand additional 0:24:39.173 --> 0:24:43.013 public servants in the term of the Albanese government. And 0:24:43.053 --> 0:24:46.333 of course the problem for the ACT is that the 0:24:46.373 --> 0:24:49.093 market there is quite tired in terms of housing. It's 0:24:49.213 --> 0:24:53.053 very expensive and they've got limited room to grow as well, 0:24:53.133 --> 0:24:56.653 so it's sort of spilling over into the regional New 0:24:56.693 --> 0:24:59.933 South Wales, creating its own problems for infrastructure and other things. 0:25:00.333 --> 0:25:06.493 But it's very shortsighted in terms of basically manipulating all 0:25:06.493 --> 0:25:11.693 of the economic indicators, including unemployment, through government funding, which 0:25:12.493 --> 0:25:16.413 is you know, on the ground, it's not really helping people. 0:25:16.453 --> 0:25:18.053 And if I can give you an example of that, 0:25:18.093 --> 0:25:22.133 there's a neighbor of mine who is now in his sixties, 0:25:22.213 --> 0:25:24.933 and he said to me when he was nineteen, he 0:25:25.013 --> 0:25:26.853 was living week to week and he thought, I've got 0:25:26.893 --> 0:25:29.013 to do something about this. I can't live like this forever. 0:25:29.653 --> 0:25:32.333 And he basically trained himself to budget and to save 0:25:32.493 --> 0:25:34.973 and to live within his means. And he said to me, 0:25:35.013 --> 0:25:36.973