1 00:00:09,093 --> 00:00:12,693 Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talks EDB. Follow 2 00:00:12,773 --> 00:00:16,173 Speaker 1: this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio. 3 00:00:17,013 --> 00:00:20,013 Speaker 1: It's time for all the attitude, all the opinion, all 4 00:00:20,093 --> 00:00:25,133 Speaker 1: the information, all the debates of us Now the Leighton 5 00:00:25,253 --> 00:00:27,933 Speaker 1: Smith podcast Power by News Talks EDB. 6 00:00:28,973 --> 00:00:32,213 Speaker 2: Welcome to Podcasts two hundred and seventy six for March nineteen, 7 00:00:32,333 --> 00:00:36,893 Speaker 2: twenty twenty five. Doctor Michael de Percy is a political 8 00:00:36,933 --> 00:00:40,493 Speaker 2: scientist and the Faculty of Business, Government and Law at 9 00:00:40,533 --> 00:00:43,493 Speaker 2: the University of Canberra. He says the education system is 10 00:00:43,533 --> 00:00:47,933 Speaker 2: exhausted and AI is going to replace so many people. 11 00:00:48,613 --> 00:00:52,493 Speaker 2: But he says what he calls the inertia in institutions 12 00:00:52,573 --> 00:00:57,133 Speaker 2: spreads far wider the WHO and the United Nations. For example. 13 00:00:57,613 --> 00:01:00,133 Speaker 2: Now in last week's podcast, I dropped in a short 14 00:01:00,173 --> 00:01:04,853 Speaker 2: paragraph at one stage that read, Trump's art of the 15 00:01:04,933 --> 00:01:07,973 Speaker 2: deal is the most democratic thing we have seen since 16 00:01:08,053 --> 00:01:12,653 Speaker 2: the experts told us to trust the science. Einstein reportedly 17 00:01:12,693 --> 00:01:15,453 Speaker 2: said that one fact, rather than a hundred experts, could 18 00:01:15,533 --> 00:01:18,693 Speaker 2: prove him wrong. Trump has done in less than two 19 00:01:18,733 --> 00:01:22,093 Speaker 2: months what thousands of experts have failed to do in years. 20 00:01:22,373 --> 00:01:25,093 Speaker 2: And that is a fact. And that was the final 21 00:01:25,173 --> 00:01:28,653 Speaker 2: paragraph from an article by Michael de Percy, Trump's Art 22 00:01:28,693 --> 00:01:31,533 Speaker 2: of the Deal, Trump's the Science. And that's how we 23 00:01:31,653 --> 00:01:35,693 Speaker 2: begin the interview and then cover a raft of other 24 00:01:35,973 --> 00:01:39,933 Speaker 2: interesting and pressing topics, but first a covet of other 25 00:01:39,973 --> 00:01:44,213 Speaker 2: things that interest me and I believe interests you connected 26 00:01:44,253 --> 00:01:48,453 Speaker 2: to areas that affect the whole world at the moment, 27 00:01:48,533 --> 00:01:52,853 Speaker 2: well pretty much certainly us and where this story actually 28 00:01:52,933 --> 00:01:57,093 Speaker 2: emanates from. I attended Apple's and your meeting. It was 29 00:01:57,133 --> 00:02:01,653 Speaker 2: a turning point against ESG ANDDI. Keeping in mind that 30 00:02:02,613 --> 00:02:07,573 Speaker 2: ESG is Environmental, Social and governance. I attended Apple's annual 31 00:02:07,613 --> 00:02:10,373 Speaker 2: meetings several weeks ago. I saw many signs of how 32 00:02:10,453 --> 00:02:14,053 Speaker 2: corporate culture is shifting away from ESG and DEEI now 33 00:02:14,093 --> 00:02:17,733 Speaker 2: to understand why. Let's briefly discuss the basics of how 34 00:02:17,773 --> 00:02:22,413 Speaker 2: people actually engage with minor corporations and goes into some detail. 35 00:02:23,493 --> 00:02:25,893 Speaker 2: I'm going to pass on that and skip to the 36 00:02:25,893 --> 00:02:31,813 Speaker 2: final paragraph. The activist class that pushes for ESG, DEI 37 00:02:32,053 --> 00:02:36,253 Speaker 2: and biased corporate policies now has to contend with their 38 00:02:36,253 --> 00:02:41,453 Speaker 2: worst nightmares. Shareholders who want businesses to focus on business, 39 00:02:41,493 --> 00:02:46,493 Speaker 2: not politics. A growing infrastructure is committed to maximizing pro 40 00:02:46,813 --> 00:02:53,133 Speaker 2: fiduciary influence at America's biggest companies, and the political space 41 00:02:53,213 --> 00:02:58,253 Speaker 2: is incredibly ripe for this action. Apple is just the beginning, 42 00:02:59,373 --> 00:03:02,533 Speaker 2: Laten Smith for many across the world. A US Federal 43 00:03:02,533 --> 00:03:06,573 Speaker 2: Reserves decision to exit the network for greening the financial 44 00:03:06,773 --> 00:03:13,173 Speaker 2: system is that central banks can refocus on their primary mandates. Well, 45 00:03:13,173 --> 00:03:19,413 Speaker 2: who would have thought stabilizing economies, controlling inflation and fostering growth. Currently, 46 00:03:19,893 --> 00:03:24,693 Speaker 2: ENNGFS membership includes central banks and financial institutions from twenty 47 00:03:24,693 --> 00:03:27,853 Speaker 2: two countries in Africa, thirty two in Asia Pacific, and 48 00:03:27,933 --> 00:03:32,533 Speaker 2: twenty in the Americas, which may now be emboldened to 49 00:03:32,613 --> 00:03:38,453 Speaker 2: reevaluate and abandon whatever priority they have assigned to climates initiatives. 50 00:03:39,053 --> 00:03:42,253 Speaker 2: It then gets on to another matter, but it's associated. 51 00:03:42,653 --> 00:03:46,813 Speaker 2: For instance, Canada's federal government has implemented a plethora of 52 00:03:46,893 --> 00:03:52,293 Speaker 2: climate policies, leading to higher carbon taxes, more volatility in 53 00:03:52,333 --> 00:03:56,613 Speaker 2: the energy sector, lower export income, and overall disastrous state 54 00:03:56,693 --> 00:04:01,293 Speaker 2: of the economy. Aspiring to drive Canada toward more climate 55 00:04:01,413 --> 00:04:05,813 Speaker 2: idiocy is Mark Karney, recently elected Canada's Prime Minister by 56 00:04:05,853 --> 00:04:09,413 Speaker 2: the ruling Liberal party. However, other Kannadians have different thoughts. 57 00:04:09,453 --> 00:04:13,333 Speaker 2: Major banks across North America relieving Mark Carney's international net 58 00:04:13,453 --> 00:04:18,373 Speaker 2: zero banking scheme, but some Canadian banks remain members. According 59 00:04:18,453 --> 00:04:23,213 Speaker 2: to Rebecca Schultz, Alberta Minister of the Environment in protected areas, 60 00:04:24,013 --> 00:04:28,933 Speaker 2: the remaining Canadian banks must abandon Carne's net zero banking 61 00:04:29,093 --> 00:04:35,413 Speaker 2: alliance and invest in safe, affordable, reliable Canadian energy again, 62 00:04:35,973 --> 00:04:39,973 Speaker 2: according to the minister, isn't that an amazing comment in 63 00:04:40,013 --> 00:04:43,453 Speaker 2: this day and age, how quickly things can turn. By 64 00:04:43,493 --> 00:04:46,493 Speaker 2: the way, Mark Carney will be a disaster. I think 65 00:04:46,493 --> 00:04:49,173 Speaker 2: I've said this somewhere else. He will be a disaster 66 00:04:49,533 --> 00:04:53,573 Speaker 2: and the Opposition leader would make a damn fine Prime minister. Now, 67 00:04:54,093 --> 00:04:58,453 Speaker 2: leading from that, with regard to central banks, let's move 68 00:04:58,493 --> 00:05:02,453 Speaker 2: to our own and Professor McCulloch on the fourth of March, 69 00:05:02,573 --> 00:05:06,613 Speaker 2: which was about the same time that Adrian Or did 70 00:05:06,653 --> 00:05:09,293 Speaker 2: his great walk out the door, never to be seen again, 71 00:05:10,413 --> 00:05:12,453 Speaker 2: and he wrote this, and I don't know whether it's 72 00:05:12,453 --> 00:05:16,373 Speaker 2: before or after the exit, but either way it's very good, 73 00:05:16,613 --> 00:05:19,733 Speaker 2: McCulloch says. Over the past six months, interest rates in 74 00:05:19,773 --> 00:05:24,093 Speaker 2: Australia had barely changed. Their official cash rate was four 75 00:05:24,133 --> 00:05:26,413 Speaker 2: point five percent back then and is now four point 76 00:05:26,453 --> 00:05:30,973 Speaker 2: twenty five. Not so in New Zealand. Our ocr has 77 00:05:31,013 --> 00:05:34,333 Speaker 2: swung from five point five to three point seventy five, 78 00:05:34,653 --> 00:05:39,493 Speaker 2: plummeting nearly two percentage points. How come well, Just over 79 00:05:39,533 --> 00:05:41,733 Speaker 2: six months ago, the Reserve Bank of New Zealand was 80 00:05:41,813 --> 00:05:46,813 Speaker 2: doing shock and awe O double ar It was desperately 81 00:05:46,853 --> 00:05:50,813 Speaker 2: trying to engineer a recession to quell the runaway inflation 82 00:05:51,373 --> 00:05:54,813 Speaker 2: that was caused by its runaway printing money program known 83 00:05:54,813 --> 00:05:59,293 Speaker 2: as quantitative easing. Six months later, New Zealand languishes as 84 00:05:59,333 --> 00:06:04,053 Speaker 2: one of the world's worst performing economies. I'm unaware of 85 00:06:04,093 --> 00:06:06,333 Speaker 2: whether you know this or not, of course, but I 86 00:06:06,413 --> 00:06:11,293 Speaker 2: didn't For some reason, I hadn't picked this up. We repeat, 87 00:06:12,173 --> 00:06:15,893 Speaker 2: New Zealand languishes is one of the world's worst performing economies, 88 00:06:16,293 --> 00:06:20,773 Speaker 2: coming in at one eighty one out of one ninety 89 00:06:20,813 --> 00:06:25,493 Speaker 2: country in terms of the IMS Economic growth numbers one 90 00:06:25,613 --> 00:06:28,973 Speaker 2: hundred and eighty first out of one hundred and ninety countries. 91 00:06:29,573 --> 00:06:33,973 Speaker 2: How low can this country slump? So now the RBNZ 92 00:06:34,253 --> 00:06:38,573 Speaker 2: has a new genius strategy engineer a boom. The proof 93 00:06:38,613 --> 00:06:41,293 Speaker 2: is in the Yel curve below. It shows one of 94 00:06:41,333 --> 00:06:44,333 Speaker 2: the wildest swings of any country that I've looked at 95 00:06:44,773 --> 00:06:47,653 Speaker 2: six months ago, our short term rates were way above 96 00:06:47,693 --> 00:06:51,373 Speaker 2: our long rates. Now the situation is reversed. The graph 97 00:06:51,373 --> 00:06:54,613 Speaker 2: shows how New Zealand has gone from panic tightening to 98 00:06:54,813 --> 00:06:58,733 Speaker 2: panic loosening. Yes, the Kiwi economy is characterized by a 99 00:06:58,773 --> 00:07:02,573 Speaker 2: close to zero sloped trend line rate of economic growth, 100 00:07:02,813 --> 00:07:07,533 Speaker 2: but with wild reserve bank induced booms and busts around 101 00:07:07,533 --> 00:07:11,573 Speaker 2: that near zero productivity increasing trend the worst way to 102 00:07:11,653 --> 00:07:14,813 Speaker 2: run a nation. National's response was to renew the contract 103 00:07:14,853 --> 00:07:18,653 Speaker 2: of why Cata University Vice Chancellor Neil Quigley last year. 104 00:07:19,093 --> 00:07:22,373 Speaker 2: The well connected man who has presided over this fiasco 105 00:07:22,613 --> 00:07:25,013 Speaker 2: as Chairman of the Reserve Bank of New Zealand good 106 00:07:25,013 --> 00:07:29,013 Speaker 2: one National. He concludes, what can I add to it? 107 00:07:29,413 --> 00:07:29,733 Speaker 3: Nothing? 108 00:07:30,373 --> 00:07:33,253 Speaker 2: However, there is some housekeeping that I need to deliver 109 00:07:33,493 --> 00:07:37,733 Speaker 2: unto you. For podcast two seven five. Nobody got an 110 00:07:37,773 --> 00:07:41,453 Speaker 2: email on the Wednesday of release. You did get emails 111 00:07:41,613 --> 00:07:46,853 Speaker 2: on this most recent Sunday. I cannot explain it to 112 00:07:46,893 --> 00:07:49,613 Speaker 2: you in great detail. What I know is that I've 113 00:07:49,613 --> 00:07:55,133 Speaker 2: got a notification on Wednesday evening after the podcast had 114 00:07:55,733 --> 00:07:59,293 Speaker 2: gone up. I think that there would be no emails 115 00:07:59,533 --> 00:08:04,493 Speaker 2: because of some technical changes, and those technical changes are ongoing. 116 00:08:04,853 --> 00:08:08,213 Speaker 2: Don't ask me, it's too complicated for my simple mind. 117 00:08:08,733 --> 00:08:12,173 Speaker 2: But there are some further changes that I now would 118 00:08:12,213 --> 00:08:15,493 Speaker 2: like to make you aware of. You will get one 119 00:08:15,773 --> 00:08:18,813 Speaker 2: today if you're on the list. Of course you have 120 00:08:18,853 --> 00:08:21,693 Speaker 2: to subscribe to It doesn't cost you anything to subscribe. 121 00:08:21,693 --> 00:08:24,453 Speaker 2: You can just get yourself listed and you get an email, 122 00:08:25,893 --> 00:08:29,453 Speaker 2: usually on a Wednesday, So there is one today, a 123 00:08:29,493 --> 00:08:32,733 Speaker 2: normal email. Then on Sunday next to twenty third of March, 124 00:08:32,773 --> 00:08:36,133 Speaker 2: there's a further selection of episodes from twenty twenty five 125 00:08:36,493 --> 00:08:40,093 Speaker 2: so far. Then Wednesday of next week there will be 126 00:08:40,173 --> 00:08:43,613 Speaker 2: no email. Please keep that in mind, so you simply 127 00:08:43,653 --> 00:08:46,613 Speaker 2: have to go help yourself to it from Newstalks AB 128 00:08:46,733 --> 00:08:50,973 Speaker 2: dot co dot nz in the podcast section. Next Wednesday, 129 00:08:51,373 --> 00:08:54,733 Speaker 2: no email. They're on Friday, the twenty eighth of March. 130 00:08:54,893 --> 00:08:59,173 Speaker 2: The Wednesday email content will fall into your box. Amazing, 131 00:08:59,253 --> 00:09:03,053 Speaker 2: isn't it? Anyway? They're doing their best to cover this off, 132 00:09:03,613 --> 00:09:06,413 Speaker 2: and it's all to do with improvements they're making too well. 133 00:09:06,653 --> 00:09:10,973 Speaker 2: I don't know whatever they think Opensteed making too pardon 134 00:09:10,973 --> 00:09:13,973 Speaker 2: by ignorance, but I don't care. I do care that 135 00:09:14,013 --> 00:09:15,893 Speaker 2: you're not getting your email, but I don't care why 136 00:09:16,453 --> 00:09:18,893 Speaker 2: that's just the way that it is now in a 137 00:09:19,053 --> 00:09:25,333 Speaker 2: moment or two. Michael de Percy, Doctor Michael de Percy 138 00:09:25,613 --> 00:09:29,453 Speaker 2: is a political scientist and a political commentator. He has 139 00:09:29,573 --> 00:09:33,733 Speaker 2: a long list of credits. Fellow of the Royal Society 140 00:09:33,773 --> 00:09:36,533 Speaker 2: of Arts, a Chartered Fellow of the Chartered Institute of 141 00:09:36,973 --> 00:09:40,773 Speaker 2: Institute of Logistics and Transport, is a member of the 142 00:09:40,853 --> 00:09:43,533 Speaker 2: Royal Society of New South Wales, editor in chief of 143 00:09:43,573 --> 00:09:47,813 Speaker 2: the Journal of Telecommunications and the Digital Economy, and a 144 00:09:47,813 --> 00:09:50,893 Speaker 2: member of the Australian Nuclear Association. He is a graduate 145 00:09:50,933 --> 00:09:54,533 Speaker 2: of the Royal Military College of Duntrue. He was appointed 146 00:09:54,573 --> 00:09:58,213 Speaker 2: to the College of Experts which bothers me at the 147 00:09:58,253 --> 00:10:02,573 Speaker 2: Australian Research Council in twenty twenty two. He also was 148 00:10:03,053 --> 00:10:06,013 Speaker 2: a graduate of Australian National University and he is a 149 00:10:06,053 --> 00:10:10,013 Speaker 2: senior lecturer at the University of Canbra's very good to 150 00:10:10,013 --> 00:10:12,893 Speaker 2: have you on the podcast. I read your latest piece, 151 00:10:13,013 --> 00:10:16,693 Speaker 2: Trump's Art of the Deal, Trump's the Science, and I 152 00:10:16,773 --> 00:10:19,613 Speaker 2: thought got to have you. Thank you, great to be here. 153 00:10:20,053 --> 00:10:23,333 Speaker 2: What do you mean, Trump's Art of the Deal, Trump's 154 00:10:23,773 --> 00:10:24,373 Speaker 2: the Science. 155 00:10:26,173 --> 00:10:29,653 Speaker 3: The first thing I'll say is that I teach political 156 00:10:29,733 --> 00:10:32,653 Speaker 3: leadership and a few years ago with my students who 157 00:10:32,693 --> 00:10:36,373 Speaker 3: were looking at how do we measure leaders And one 158 00:10:36,413 --> 00:10:37,693 Speaker 3: of the things we were looking at at the time 159 00:10:37,773 --> 00:10:40,533 Speaker 3: was Barack Obama. And over a period of eight years, 160 00:10:40,573 --> 00:10:44,173 Speaker 3: when you actually lined up what he'd actually achieved, it 161 00:10:44,213 --> 00:10:47,373 Speaker 3: was all symbolic. So symbolism obviously is a big part 162 00:10:47,373 --> 00:10:51,813 Speaker 3: of political leadership, but the actual achievements were very minor. 163 00:10:52,573 --> 00:10:55,613 Speaker 3: In fact, probably Obamacare was his major achievement, which was 164 00:10:55,653 --> 00:10:59,733 Speaker 3: effectively undone in the first Trump administration. So I started 165 00:10:59,773 --> 00:11:04,893 Speaker 3: looking a bit deeper into this idea of achievements and 166 00:11:04,933 --> 00:11:10,053 Speaker 3: what presidents in particular actually achieved, and when we come 167 00:11:10,133 --> 00:11:15,293 Speaker 3: to the second Trump administration, it's very interesting that Trump, 168 00:11:15,373 --> 00:11:18,653 Speaker 3: when he makes a deal, he starts with the worst 169 00:11:18,693 --> 00:11:21,053 Speaker 3: case scenario. So you can imagine, you know, basically the 170 00:11:21,093 --> 00:11:25,013 Speaker 3: strongest man in history at this point in time, and 171 00:11:25,373 --> 00:11:27,373 Speaker 3: if you're dealing with him, he's going to give you 172 00:11:27,413 --> 00:11:31,453 Speaker 3: this apocalypse apocalyptic sort of idea of what the future 173 00:11:31,453 --> 00:11:36,773 Speaker 3: could be like as his starting point. He then uses 174 00:11:36,773 --> 00:11:39,173 Speaker 3: that to create all of this sort of disruption and 175 00:11:39,253 --> 00:11:43,813 Speaker 3: puts the person he's negotiating with into this state of disarray. 176 00:11:44,333 --> 00:11:48,533 Speaker 3: He then sort of dials that back to ultimately achieve 177 00:11:48,853 --> 00:11:52,053 Speaker 3: what he's after. And the unfortunate thing I find is 178 00:11:52,093 --> 00:11:54,053 Speaker 3: that for the leader of the free world, the free 179 00:11:54,053 --> 00:11:57,093 Speaker 3: world's not supporting him. And we have all of these experts. 180 00:11:57,133 --> 00:11:59,973 Speaker 3: Each time he tries to or begins making a deal, 181 00:12:00,013 --> 00:12:03,213 Speaker 3: we have all of these experts. I noted you mentioned 182 00:12:03,213 --> 00:12:06,573 Speaker 3: my membership of the College of Experts of Istralian Research Council. 183 00:12:06,613 --> 00:12:09,413 Speaker 3: But the point that I'm making is that these people 184 00:12:09,613 --> 00:12:12,853 Speaker 3: Donald Trump, presidents of the US, our own prime ministers 185 00:12:12,853 --> 00:12:16,053 Speaker 3: and the like, they're actually elected by a majority of people, 186 00:12:16,093 --> 00:12:19,333 Speaker 3: which is what liberal democracy is all about. And unfortunately, 187 00:12:19,413 --> 00:12:25,093 Speaker 3: instead of having these people being backed by those experts, 188 00:12:26,413 --> 00:12:30,773 Speaker 3: effectively the experts are disagreeing with the voters. And Australian 189 00:12:30,773 --> 00:12:34,453 Speaker 3: Prime Minister John Howard famously said that the voters are 190 00:12:34,493 --> 00:12:37,893 Speaker 3: always right in a liberal democracy, if you get voted in, 191 00:12:38,373 --> 00:12:41,853 Speaker 3: it's the correct solution, that's what the people wanted. Unfortunately, 192 00:12:41,853 --> 00:12:44,853 Speaker 3: what we're seeing when Trump's trying to make these deals 193 00:12:45,333 --> 00:12:49,493 Speaker 3: immediately people are jumping on board saying that you know 194 00:12:49,773 --> 00:12:52,853 Speaker 3: this is this is not how things ought to be done, 195 00:12:53,093 --> 00:12:55,773 Speaker 3: you know the president's wrong, or you know that this 196 00:12:55,853 --> 00:12:59,933 Speaker 3: is disastrous for democracy and the ridiculous thing is that 197 00:13:00,373 --> 00:13:04,173 Speaker 3: in every measure, Donald Trump has been elected with an 198 00:13:04,573 --> 00:13:09,293 Speaker 3: outright majority across the board, in every measure of electoral success. 199 00:13:09,333 --> 00:13:13,533 Speaker 3: He achieved it the most recent US election, And I'm 200 00:13:13,533 --> 00:13:16,453 Speaker 3: finding it bizarre that as he's making these deals on 201 00:13:16,493 --> 00:13:20,293 Speaker 3: behalf of the American people, and with that the Anglo 202 00:13:20,813 --> 00:13:24,333 Speaker 3: liberal democracies, the people just aren't getting on board with it, 203 00:13:24,373 --> 00:13:26,933 Speaker 3: and they're sort of going off in their own expert opinions, 204 00:13:27,333 --> 00:13:31,373 Speaker 3: which frankly are great for advice, but they're not representative 205 00:13:31,373 --> 00:13:33,573 Speaker 3: of the people that voted these people into power. 206 00:13:33,733 --> 00:13:35,093 Speaker 2: Are they expert opinions? 207 00:13:35,093 --> 00:13:38,853 Speaker 3: Though? Well, that's the other thing. If you were to 208 00:13:38,853 --> 00:13:44,093 Speaker 3: look at expertise in particular. Now you know, obviously different 209 00:13:44,133 --> 00:13:48,413 Speaker 3: people have these different views. In the US. Meerscheimer and 210 00:13:48,453 --> 00:13:54,133 Speaker 3: others have even gone against Trump, which I found quite 211 00:13:54,133 --> 00:13:59,253 Speaker 3: bizarre because traditionally they're very much about liberal institutionalism, and 212 00:13:59,333 --> 00:14:01,933 Speaker 3: when we look at liberal institutionalism effective, we were talking 213 00:14:01,933 --> 00:14:06,533 Speaker 3: about the liberal as in small l liberal, not in 214 00:14:06,533 --> 00:14:09,413 Speaker 3: the American sense of the word, but as the individual 215 00:14:09,573 --> 00:14:12,533 Speaker 3: is most capable of making their own decisions for themselves, 216 00:14:12,933 --> 00:14:16,413 Speaker 3: which leads to free speech and other ideas about liberal democracy. 217 00:14:17,013 --> 00:14:21,053 Speaker 3: And in our world order. Traditionally, the United Nations was 218 00:14:21,093 --> 00:14:24,733 Speaker 3: founded on these liberal democratic principles, which of course have 219 00:14:24,853 --> 00:14:30,893 Speaker 3: now been captured by smaller, non liberal democratic countries, which 220 00:14:30,933 --> 00:14:34,173 Speaker 3: means that the UN is effectively moved away from its mandate. 221 00:14:34,493 --> 00:14:37,573 Speaker 3: It's exhausted, it's been captured by other interests. And of 222 00:14:37,573 --> 00:14:40,853 Speaker 3: course the US has let this slide by not funding 223 00:14:40,893 --> 00:14:44,493 Speaker 3: it as it may once have. And of course Donald 224 00:14:44,493 --> 00:14:47,893 Speaker 3: Trump is in the business of undoing the world order 225 00:14:47,933 --> 00:14:52,693 Speaker 3: that effectively is no longer achieving its aim of bringing 226 00:14:53,373 --> 00:14:56,933 Speaker 3: liberals sort of democratic capitalism to the world. 227 00:14:57,493 --> 00:15:02,453 Speaker 2: What is it do you think that prevents other world leaders, commentators, 228 00:15:02,493 --> 00:15:08,893 Speaker 2: experts from appreciating Trump for what he actually istently you do? 229 00:15:09,453 --> 00:15:10,973 Speaker 2: Where are they coming up short? 230 00:15:11,573 --> 00:15:16,453 Speaker 3: It's interesting that this whole idea of woke and look wokeism, 231 00:15:16,653 --> 00:15:19,733 Speaker 3: the wokarati and someone that these terms are not necessarily 232 00:15:19,773 --> 00:15:23,333 Speaker 3: well defined. But I would put it in terms of 233 00:15:23,853 --> 00:15:26,333 Speaker 3: and sorry if I go a bit into history here, 234 00:15:26,373 --> 00:15:30,373 Speaker 3: but if we look at what we love, if we 235 00:15:30,373 --> 00:15:34,573 Speaker 3: look at John Stuart Mill and his classic work on liberty, 236 00:15:35,853 --> 00:15:38,653 Speaker 3: Mill look for the modern reader. If you read on 237 00:15:38,693 --> 00:15:41,333 Speaker 3: liberty now you're thinking, oh, there's nothing new in this 238 00:15:41,333 --> 00:15:43,893 Speaker 3: this this is basically how we live. But in Mill's 239 00:15:43,893 --> 00:15:47,213 Speaker 3: time it was radical. But one of the things that 240 00:15:47,253 --> 00:15:54,133 Speaker 3: there was a critique a quality fraternity. And I'm sorry, 241 00:15:54,173 --> 00:15:56,133 Speaker 3: I should should be able to recall this off the 242 00:15:56,133 --> 00:16:02,173 Speaker 3: top of my head, but in effect a critic wrote, uh, 243 00:16:02,573 --> 00:16:07,453 Speaker 3: this this this piece where he argued that liberalism in 244 00:16:07,533 --> 00:16:12,773 Speaker 3: it or individualism in its extreme, would actually be dangerous 245 00:16:12,773 --> 00:16:17,173 Speaker 3: for society. And what we're sort of seeing is that 246 00:16:18,173 --> 00:16:23,733 Speaker 3: the woke movement was about extreme individualism related with identity politics, 247 00:16:24,093 --> 00:16:27,893 Speaker 3: but to the point where the individual no longer head 248 00:16:28,013 --> 00:16:31,413 Speaker 3: for the concept of the common good. And the common 249 00:16:31,453 --> 00:16:35,973 Speaker 3: good is basically where individuals act in their own self interest, 250 00:16:36,013 --> 00:16:38,893 Speaker 3: but they also have this sort of tide of the 251 00:16:38,933 --> 00:16:43,653 Speaker 3: community that enables them to act within their own self interest, 252 00:16:43,733 --> 00:16:47,093 Speaker 3: but in a way where they're basically looking after themselves 253 00:16:47,373 --> 00:16:50,053 Speaker 3: so that nobody else has to look after them. And 254 00:16:50,093 --> 00:16:53,293 Speaker 3: you can imagine that as a society has more and 255 00:16:53,373 --> 00:16:55,733 Speaker 3: more people who need the society to look after them, 256 00:16:55,733 --> 00:16:57,693 Speaker 3: eventually we're going to run out of people who are 257 00:16:57,693 --> 00:17:01,813 Speaker 3: actually doing the heavy lifting. And so this idea of 258 00:17:02,413 --> 00:17:06,253 Speaker 3: extreme individualism at the expense of the common good has 259 00:17:06,293 --> 00:17:08,973 Speaker 3: got to a point where it's so many of us 260 00:17:09,013 --> 00:17:12,013 Speaker 3: are carrying those who are not carrying themselves. Now, this 261 00:17:12,333 --> 00:17:16,453 Speaker 3: originated in the United States, and so it's interesting that, 262 00:17:16,573 --> 00:17:21,253 Speaker 3: particularly here in Australia, we tend to be years behind 263 00:17:21,253 --> 00:17:24,613 Speaker 3: the United States. So any trend, even disastrous trends, that 264 00:17:24,693 --> 00:17:27,893 Speaker 3: start there, we tend to take on years later, even 265 00:17:27,933 --> 00:17:29,893 Speaker 3: when we're seeing the evidence that it's just you know, 266 00:17:30,413 --> 00:17:34,173 Speaker 3: it's a disaster. And so this woke idea of extreme 267 00:17:34,213 --> 00:17:38,253 Speaker 3: individualism through identity politics is something that's been picked up here, 268 00:17:38,293 --> 00:17:41,053 Speaker 3: but also in the UK to some extent, New Zealand, 269 00:17:41,093 --> 00:17:44,853 Speaker 3: and certainly certainly in Canada. And I refer to these 270 00:17:44,853 --> 00:17:51,293 Speaker 3: countries as the Anglo liberal democracies. And in many ways 271 00:17:51,493 --> 00:17:54,293 Speaker 3: what we've got at the moment are leftist governments in Canada, 272 00:17:54,373 --> 00:17:58,173 Speaker 3: the UK, and certainly in Australia. And these governments have 273 00:17:58,253 --> 00:18:02,333 Speaker 3: sort of run full bottle with the extreme individualism of 274 00:18:02,373 --> 00:18:05,893 Speaker 3: identity politics at the expense of the common good, to 275 00:18:05,933 --> 00:18:09,253 Speaker 3: the point where governments are actually funding all of these 276 00:18:09,293 --> 00:18:15,133 Speaker 3: initiatives beyond their means. So in the Australian capital territory Victoria, 277 00:18:15,173 --> 00:18:19,453 Speaker 3: for example, the state government in Australia is well beyond 278 00:18:19,453 --> 00:18:22,493 Speaker 3: its means carrying the debt that is actually now starting 279 00:18:22,533 --> 00:18:25,653 Speaker 3: to affect other citizens in Australia. And of course the 280 00:18:25,653 --> 00:18:30,413 Speaker 3: Australian government has been spending on subsidizing renewables and other 281 00:18:30,573 --> 00:18:34,973 Speaker 3: sort of economic policies that aren't necessarily working because the 282 00:18:35,013 --> 00:18:36,653 Speaker 3: cost of living is just out of control. 283 00:18:36,733 --> 00:18:40,893 Speaker 2: Can I just ask you a question there, what the 284 00:18:40,893 --> 00:18:44,333 Speaker 2: Australian government has been spending money on. We now know, 285 00:18:44,453 --> 00:18:48,013 Speaker 2: of course that if we didn't know before that in 286 00:18:48,053 --> 00:18:50,973 Speaker 2: the US money has been dumped in all sorts of 287 00:18:51,013 --> 00:18:55,733 Speaker 2: places and disappeared forever. In other words, it's not accounted for, 288 00:18:56,093 --> 00:19:00,133 Speaker 2: and it's being handed out to people who don't deserve it. 289 00:19:00,133 --> 00:19:04,093 Speaker 2: It's being wasted. Is it the same to any degree 290 00:19:04,413 --> 00:19:05,693 Speaker 2: in Australia do you think? 291 00:19:06,013 --> 00:19:09,293 Speaker 3: Well, I'm not sure about waste. We haven't had that 292 00:19:09,413 --> 00:19:13,853 Speaker 3: level of transparency which the Department of Government Efficiency is 293 00:19:13,893 --> 00:19:16,253 Speaker 3: looking into in the US. But it's certainly something that 294 00:19:16,493 --> 00:19:18,253 Speaker 3: I hope will be a trend that we do follow 295 00:19:18,333 --> 00:19:20,893 Speaker 3: with sometime in the future. A lot of it is 296 00:19:20,893 --> 00:19:26,053 Speaker 3: to do with green eye ideals about energy and industry, 297 00:19:26,573 --> 00:19:31,053 Speaker 3: and we see this most recently in our Wala steel works, 298 00:19:31,493 --> 00:19:35,333 Speaker 3: where effectively they've been pursuing this sort of green steel idea, 299 00:19:35,893 --> 00:19:40,093 Speaker 3: which hasn't been commercialized anywhere in the world. There is 300 00:19:40,093 --> 00:19:43,533 Speaker 3: a German outfit that's trialing it, but it's not commercial 301 00:19:43,573 --> 00:19:46,573 Speaker 3: it's not standalone at this stage. So Australia has been 302 00:19:46,613 --> 00:19:53,053 Speaker 3: pursuing these green ideals where effectively it's not commercially viable, 303 00:19:53,493 --> 00:19:56,093 Speaker 3: and hydrogen in particular is one of these areas. So 304 00:19:56,133 --> 00:20:00,493 Speaker 3: we've got all of these subsidies going to the renewable sector, 305 00:20:01,013 --> 00:20:03,813 Speaker 3: and we've got all this critique about the potential for 306 00:20:03,893 --> 00:20:07,333 Speaker 3: nuclear to fill this gap to fix the problems we're 307 00:20:07,373 --> 00:20:11,213 Speaker 3: experiencing our energy sector, but unfortunately we don't know how 308 00:20:11,293 --> 00:20:13,893 Speaker 3: much this is costing. So we've kind of got this 309 00:20:13,933 --> 00:20:17,293 Speaker 3: political debate where nuclear is the enemy and it's going 310 00:20:17,333 --> 00:20:20,533 Speaker 3: to cost half a trillion dollars or whatever. We actually 311 00:20:20,613 --> 00:20:23,573 Speaker 3: actually have no idea how much the subsidization of the 312 00:20:23,653 --> 00:20:26,773 Speaker 3: energy sector is costing us in the meantime. And not 313 00:20:26,813 --> 00:20:30,453 Speaker 3: only that, it's one of those inner city versus the 314 00:20:30,493 --> 00:20:34,773 Speaker 3: regions situations where what we have is people in the 315 00:20:34,813 --> 00:20:38,733 Speaker 3: inner city are quite happy to have renewable energy to 316 00:20:38,733 --> 00:20:41,133 Speaker 3: feel good about themselves, while people in the regions are 317 00:20:41,133 --> 00:20:44,413 Speaker 3: actually suffering from the externalities that are caused by this 318 00:20:44,493 --> 00:20:47,813 Speaker 3: change in the energy system. And in fact, what we're 319 00:20:47,853 --> 00:20:50,213 Speaker 3: finding is it's not even cheaper. It's going up again 320 00:20:50,333 --> 00:20:53,213 Speaker 3: by some nine percent in July this year, so it 321 00:20:53,333 --> 00:20:55,373 Speaker 3: just keeps going up and up. It's not achieving its 322 00:20:55,373 --> 00:20:56,053 Speaker 3: original aim. 323 00:20:57,053 --> 00:20:59,693 Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to say that we're in no better 324 00:20:59,933 --> 00:21:05,373 Speaker 2: condition than you are, but for possibly somewhat different reasons. 325 00:21:05,893 --> 00:21:10,213 Speaker 2: I mean, we rely a lot on water, and there 326 00:21:10,293 --> 00:21:13,413 Speaker 2: is a very deep concern at the moment from anyone 327 00:21:13,453 --> 00:21:16,533 Speaker 2: with any intelligence because we've had a very dry summer 328 00:21:17,213 --> 00:21:21,773 Speaker 2: and we are under threat with electricity supply. In the meantime, 329 00:21:21,773 --> 00:21:25,373 Speaker 2: of course, we're importing because we under the previous labor 330 00:21:25,413 --> 00:21:29,213 Speaker 2: government such as it was, we banned we've banned coal 331 00:21:29,253 --> 00:21:33,613 Speaker 2: mining and searches for oil and gas, etc. And now 332 00:21:33,653 --> 00:21:38,613 Speaker 2: we import cheap crap coal from Indonesia. It's really quite 333 00:21:38,653 --> 00:21:43,533 Speaker 2: an extraordinary scenario. And at this particular moment, if we 334 00:21:43,573 --> 00:21:46,053 Speaker 2: don't get rained very soon, then we're going to go 335 00:21:46,053 --> 00:21:49,293 Speaker 2: into blackout zone. Now you've i think already suffered in 336 00:21:49,333 --> 00:21:51,173 Speaker 2: some parts of the country from blackouts, have you. 337 00:21:51,133 --> 00:21:55,653 Speaker 3: Not, Yes, Yes, that's definitely been the case. We've definitely 338 00:21:55,733 --> 00:22:03,013 Speaker 3: suffered from blackouts and other problems, especially during storms and 339 00:22:03,093 --> 00:22:06,173 Speaker 3: floods and other things. But some of these have also 340 00:22:06,253 --> 00:22:10,293 Speaker 3: been self indue just by a lack of capacity in 341 00:22:10,333 --> 00:22:10,813 Speaker 3: the sector. 342 00:22:11,573 --> 00:22:15,013 Speaker 2: There is a very large exit number of people from 343 00:22:15,013 --> 00:22:19,813 Speaker 2: this country going to Australia, and it's slowed down, but 344 00:22:19,853 --> 00:22:23,333 Speaker 2: it hasn't disappeared by any stretch of the imagination. Give 345 00:22:23,373 --> 00:22:25,413 Speaker 2: you an example, and I get quite a bit of this. 346 00:22:25,893 --> 00:22:29,493 Speaker 2: I received a letter after last week's podcast from somebody 347 00:22:29,573 --> 00:22:33,733 Speaker 2: who said that they are leaving the country again. They're 348 00:22:33,773 --> 00:22:36,013 Speaker 2: going to Australia because their kids are there. They can't 349 00:22:36,053 --> 00:22:40,733 Speaker 2: get work here. All highly qualified at university level, can't 350 00:22:40,733 --> 00:22:44,813 Speaker 2: get jobs here, and so they're in Australia and the 351 00:22:44,893 --> 00:22:47,853 Speaker 2: parents are now going over. Also added by the way, 352 00:22:47,853 --> 00:22:50,253 Speaker 2: and I don't know quite how this fits in that 353 00:22:50,333 --> 00:22:54,653 Speaker 2: they may return to the US, so possibly they came 354 00:22:54,693 --> 00:22:57,133 Speaker 2: from there in the host place. I don't know. They 355 00:22:57,133 --> 00:22:58,853 Speaker 2: may return to the US, but they're waiting to see 356 00:22:58,853 --> 00:23:03,413 Speaker 2: how Trump turns out. But that is one example. Three 357 00:23:03,493 --> 00:23:07,093 Speaker 2: kids all in Australia because they can't get work here, 358 00:23:07,733 --> 00:23:10,933 Speaker 2: and that is what is inspiring so many to live. 359 00:23:11,093 --> 00:23:13,853 Speaker 2: Of our mixed family of four We've got two in 360 00:23:13,893 --> 00:23:16,933 Speaker 2: London and two here. The two here, well, one of 361 00:23:16,973 --> 00:23:18,973 Speaker 2: the two here would like to would like to go 362 00:23:19,013 --> 00:23:23,213 Speaker 2: to the States and will probably end up in Australia. 363 00:23:23,453 --> 00:23:27,053 Speaker 2: Is it noticeable to you. I know that the numbers 364 00:23:27,093 --> 00:23:30,213 Speaker 2: are increasing in Canberra, the population is increasing in Canbra 365 00:23:30,333 --> 00:23:33,373 Speaker 2: some say that it's increasing at the highest highest rate 366 00:23:33,453 --> 00:23:38,413 Speaker 2: of any parts of Australia. But is there a noticeable 367 00:23:38,493 --> 00:23:40,733 Speaker 2: increase Do you think of New Zealand as in Australia 368 00:23:40,773 --> 00:23:42,573 Speaker 2: from your perspective now. 369 00:23:42,733 --> 00:23:45,773 Speaker 3: Not from my perspective, And it's difficult to tell at 370 00:23:45,773 --> 00:23:48,253 Speaker 3: the moment because we seem to be taking on a 371 00:23:48,253 --> 00:23:52,573 Speaker 3: lot of so called refugees from the Middle East and elsewhere, 372 00:23:52,893 --> 00:23:55,293 Speaker 3: and that's been more of a sort of noticeable problem. 373 00:23:55,573 --> 00:23:58,653 Speaker 3: I think the relationship between Australia and New Zealand, you know, 374 00:23:58,653 --> 00:24:01,213 Speaker 3: and the anzac spirit. I mean, you know, we don't 375 00:24:01,253 --> 00:24:05,133 Speaker 3: even think of Australia and New Zealand as separate countries 376 00:24:05,213 --> 00:24:09,733 Speaker 3: or cultures, despite the formalities. So look, I must admit 377 00:24:09,733 --> 00:24:14,253 Speaker 3: I'm not noticing that sort of influx. But it's interesting 378 00:24:14,293 --> 00:24:17,853 Speaker 3: too though that in terms of employment opportunities, one of 379 00:24:17,893 --> 00:24:19,733 Speaker 3: the things that's happening in Australia at the moment is 380 00:24:19,813 --> 00:24:24,573 Speaker 3: employment is quite unemployment is extremely low, but the reason 381 00:24:24,653 --> 00:24:27,013 Speaker 3: is because most of the jobs are government jobs, so 382 00:24:28,093 --> 00:24:31,733 Speaker 3: it's kind of a false economy in that regard. But 383 00:24:31,813 --> 00:24:35,333 Speaker 3: at the same time, Canberra is certainly growing because the 384 00:24:35,373 --> 00:24:39,173 Speaker 3: public service has been growing some thirty six thousand additional 385 00:24:39,173 --> 00:24:43,013 Speaker 3: public servants in the term of the Albanese government. And 386 00:24:43,053 --> 00:24:46,333 Speaker 3: of course the problem for the ACT is that the 387 00:24:46,373 --> 00:24:49,093 Speaker 3: market there is quite tired in terms of housing. It's 388 00:24:49,213 --> 00:24:53,053 Speaker 3: very expensive and they've got limited room to grow as well, 389 00:24:53,133 --> 00:24:56,653 Speaker 3: so it's sort of spilling over into the regional New 390 00:24:56,693 --> 00:24:59,933 Speaker 3: South Wales, creating its own problems for infrastructure and other things. 391 00:25:00,333 --> 00:25:06,493 Speaker 3: But it's very shortsighted in terms of basically manipulating all 392 00:25:06,493 --> 00:25:11,693 Speaker 3: of the economic indicators, including unemployment, through government funding, which 393 00:25:12,493 --> 00:25:16,413 Speaker 3: is you know, on the ground, it's not really helping people. 394 00:25:16,453 --> 00:25:18,053 Speaker 3: And if I can give you an example of that, 395 00:25:18,093 --> 00:25:22,133 Speaker 3: there's a neighbor of mine who is now in his sixties, 396 00:25:22,213 --> 00:25:24,933 Speaker 3: and he said to me when he was nineteen, he 397 00:25:25,013 --> 00:25:26,853 Speaker 3: was living week to week and he thought, I've got 398 00:25:26,893 --> 00:25:29,013 Speaker 3: to do something about this. I can't live like this forever. 399 00:25:29,653 --> 00:25:32,333 Speaker 3: And he basically trained himself to budget and to save 400 00:25:32,493 --> 00:25:34,973 Speaker 3: and to live within his means. And he said to me, 401 00:25:35,013 --> 00:25:36,973 Speaker 3: here he is now in his sixties and he's living 402 00:25:37,013 --> 00:25:39,173 Speaker 3: week to week again. But there's nothing he can do 403 00:25:39,253 --> 00:25:41,493 Speaker 3: about it. It's not a lack of discipline. It's just 404 00:25:41,533 --> 00:25:44,853 Speaker 3: a simple fact that he can't afford to live as 405 00:25:45,413 --> 00:25:48,933 Speaker 3: within his means. It's basically impossible. So you know, on 406 00:25:49,493 --> 00:25:52,773 Speaker 3: the one hand, we've got these economic indicators which look great, 407 00:25:53,453 --> 00:25:57,413 Speaker 3: but the reality of living in Australia is extremely different 408 00:25:57,453 --> 00:26:00,053 Speaker 3: to that picture that's being painted by the government. 409 00:26:00,333 --> 00:26:05,173 Speaker 2: I think he made a mistake a little while ago. 410 00:26:05,453 --> 00:26:07,693 Speaker 2: I think you meant the Abaloni government didn't. 411 00:26:09,573 --> 00:26:14,093 Speaker 3: Well, yeah, baloney. Anyway, that was that was that was 412 00:26:14,133 --> 00:26:17,093 Speaker 3: doing the rounds over the weekend from the from the 413 00:26:17,133 --> 00:26:18,893 Speaker 3: Saturday Australian cartoon. 414 00:26:19,573 --> 00:26:22,893 Speaker 2: Talking of the federal government. Of course, it doesn't include 415 00:26:23,013 --> 00:26:28,013 Speaker 2: the position of the state governments, and they seem to 416 00:26:28,053 --> 00:26:31,173 Speaker 2: be a bit at sea. I don't know which state 417 00:26:31,213 --> 00:26:34,293 Speaker 2: government you would nominate as being the best one at 418 00:26:34,333 --> 00:26:38,653 Speaker 2: this point of time, but from my perspective, none of 419 00:26:38,693 --> 00:26:42,253 Speaker 2: them seemed to be firing on all cylinders. 420 00:26:43,053 --> 00:26:46,813 Speaker 3: Look, yeah, that's that's true. And look, you asked me 421 00:26:46,853 --> 00:26:50,573 Speaker 3: earlier about Trump, and I wanted to just sort of 422 00:26:51,093 --> 00:26:53,573 Speaker 3: come back to that idea of why I see what 423 00:26:53,693 --> 00:26:56,573 Speaker 3: he's doing is so important and it relates to what 424 00:26:56,573 --> 00:26:59,733 Speaker 3: we're talking about with the state governments here. But I 425 00:26:59,813 --> 00:27:03,413 Speaker 3: mentioned the critique of John Stuart Millan. It's actually James 426 00:27:03,493 --> 00:27:07,853 Speaker 3: Fitzjames Stephen in his work called Liberty, Equality Fraternity, and 427 00:27:07,893 --> 00:27:11,493 Speaker 3: it was a really interesting critique of John Stuart Mills's 428 00:27:12,293 --> 00:27:16,253 Speaker 3: work which effectively outlines what we're seeing in terms that 429 00:27:16,773 --> 00:27:20,933 Speaker 3: woke identity politics when it comes to the state governments. 430 00:27:21,373 --> 00:27:24,613 Speaker 3: When it comes to the state governments, what we're seeing 431 00:27:24,733 --> 00:27:29,373 Speaker 3: is the state's effectively playing the same electoral game that 432 00:27:29,493 --> 00:27:33,173 Speaker 3: the federal government is playing, and we're seeing things like, 433 00:27:33,253 --> 00:27:36,493 Speaker 3: for example, in Queensland, we saw this idea of fifty 434 00:27:36,533 --> 00:27:40,893 Speaker 3: cents trips on public transport and it's interesting because that 435 00:27:40,893 --> 00:27:44,573 Speaker 3: effectively plays to Brisbane because the public transport situation and 436 00:27:44,573 --> 00:27:48,213 Speaker 3: the rest of Queensland is abysmal. So in effect, people 437 00:27:48,213 --> 00:27:51,253 Speaker 3: in the regions are once again subsidizing those people who 438 00:27:51,293 --> 00:27:53,133 Speaker 3: live in the cities and have all the access to 439 00:27:53,533 --> 00:27:57,293 Speaker 3: public infrastructure. And we see the same sort of game 440 00:27:57,333 --> 00:28:01,373 Speaker 3: being played in New South Wales and elsewhere in effect, 441 00:28:01,453 --> 00:28:04,533 Speaker 3: what they're doing is buying votes and people seem to 442 00:28:04,533 --> 00:28:07,853 Speaker 3: be going along with it. Now, that wasn't necessarily a 443 00:28:07,893 --> 00:28:12,413 Speaker 3: case in in Queensland the recent state election there, but 444 00:28:12,453 --> 00:28:15,693 Speaker 3: it's certainly been the case in Victoria and to some 445 00:28:15,773 --> 00:28:19,733 Speaker 3: extent in New South Wales. In New South Wales we 446 00:28:19,813 --> 00:28:25,773 Speaker 3: see the premiere talking tough on anti Semitism and other things, 447 00:28:25,813 --> 00:28:27,813 Speaker 3: saying all the right things, but at the same time 448 00:28:27,813 --> 00:28:31,133 Speaker 3: we're not seeing any action. And this really brings me 449 00:28:31,213 --> 00:28:34,773 Speaker 3: back to that Trump Trumpian argument that Trump is all 450 00:28:34,613 --> 00:28:38,453 Speaker 3: about the action. He's making these deals, he's making things happen, 451 00:28:38,933 --> 00:28:42,573 Speaker 3: whereas we look at Barack Obama symbolic, you know, really 452 00:28:42,613 --> 00:28:45,853 Speaker 3: important symbolism in terms of the first African American president 453 00:28:45,893 --> 00:28:49,973 Speaker 3: of the United States, which in effect shows how our 454 00:28:50,013 --> 00:28:54,253 Speaker 3: system works. It's about merit as opposed to identity, but 455 00:28:54,293 --> 00:28:56,813 Speaker 3: then going full swing where it's all about identity now 456 00:28:56,813 --> 00:28:59,413 Speaker 3: it's not about merit, and then Trump coming along and 457 00:28:59,453 --> 00:29:01,733 Speaker 3: trying to turn that on its head. And we're seeing 458 00:29:01,773 --> 00:29:06,013 Speaker 3: the governments of Canada, the UK and Australia not being 459 00:29:06,013 --> 00:29:09,653 Speaker 3: real happy about following this is changed. But look at 460 00:29:09,653 --> 00:29:11,893 Speaker 3: the change that's coming because we can't afford to keep 461 00:29:11,933 --> 00:29:14,293 Speaker 3: living the way that we have. And like I said, 462 00:29:14,293 --> 00:29:17,373 Speaker 3: it was James Fitzjames Stephen who actually warned about this 463 00:29:18,093 --> 00:29:22,173 Speaker 3: in John Stuart Mill's time, which I find extremely interesting. 464 00:29:23,213 --> 00:29:25,973 Speaker 2: Let's go back a little too, what you were saying 465 00:29:26,053 --> 00:29:31,253 Speaker 2: about the speed with which philosophies have traveled through the 466 00:29:31,453 --> 00:29:35,933 Speaker 2: English speaking world, in particular our two countries. As you wondered, 467 00:29:36,573 --> 00:29:39,533 Speaker 2: I'm just trying to recollect your words, but you wondered 468 00:29:39,533 --> 00:29:43,213 Speaker 2: whether or how long it would take to eradicate that. 469 00:29:43,853 --> 00:29:48,253 Speaker 2: My contribution to the discussion over a number of years 470 00:29:48,413 --> 00:29:52,253 Speaker 2: has been, if it happens in America, particularly in California, 471 00:29:53,573 --> 00:29:56,133 Speaker 2: it'll get here, and it'll get here sooner than you think. 472 00:29:56,933 --> 00:30:01,093 Speaker 2: And political correctness was the beginning of it, and it 473 00:30:01,253 --> 00:30:04,493 Speaker 2: romped in here. I remember buying in the States some 474 00:30:05,133 --> 00:30:10,573 Speaker 2: small books of Christmas stories written by satirist. They were 475 00:30:10,613 --> 00:30:14,453 Speaker 2: send ups of regular stories like Little Red Writing Hood, 476 00:30:14,493 --> 00:30:19,693 Speaker 2: et cetera, but they were adapted for the appropriate politically 477 00:30:19,693 --> 00:30:23,293 Speaker 2: correct approach. And we're going back to the late eighties here, 478 00:30:23,493 --> 00:30:25,773 Speaker 2: and I brought the books back and I read some 479 00:30:25,813 --> 00:30:30,613 Speaker 2: stories on radio, and I got abused. One guy I've 480 00:30:30,653 --> 00:30:34,173 Speaker 2: never forgotten said I'm never listening to you again if 481 00:30:34,173 --> 00:30:37,893 Speaker 2: you're going to quote that stupid stuff because he didn't 482 00:30:37,893 --> 00:30:41,053 Speaker 2: get it, he didn't understand, he thought it was he 483 00:30:41,093 --> 00:30:44,693 Speaker 2: thought it was genuine. So that's an aside. But my 484 00:30:44,853 --> 00:30:47,933 Speaker 2: question to you is, if it gets here that quickly, 485 00:30:48,573 --> 00:30:52,653 Speaker 2: why shouldn't it's eradication Once started in America, as it has, 486 00:30:52,933 --> 00:30:55,893 Speaker 2: why shouldn't that spread here equally as fast? 487 00:30:56,773 --> 00:31:01,173 Speaker 3: Well, one could hope. I think economic circumstances are going 488 00:31:01,413 --> 00:31:05,293 Speaker 3: certainly going to help. But it's interesting that it's almost 489 00:31:05,333 --> 00:31:10,253 Speaker 3: like there's this latent sort of socialist concepts and people 490 00:31:10,293 --> 00:31:13,853 Speaker 3: refer to the long march through the institutions, which in 491 00:31:13,893 --> 00:31:17,813 Speaker 3: many ways we're kind of living, particularly in the education 492 00:31:17,973 --> 00:31:23,573 Speaker 3: sector in Australia and the US and elsewhere. But it's 493 00:31:23,653 --> 00:31:28,933 Speaker 3: kind of like this ideal of not so much multiculturalism, 494 00:31:29,013 --> 00:31:32,613 Speaker 3: but that it's not about your identity, but at the 495 00:31:32,653 --> 00:31:35,253 Speaker 3: same time, it's all about your identity. And I think 496 00:31:35,373 --> 00:31:42,013 Speaker 3: vested interests have become so embedded in these institutions that, look, 497 00:31:42,693 --> 00:31:46,453 Speaker 3: my research really does focus on institutions, and when we 498 00:31:46,493 --> 00:31:48,813 Speaker 3: look at institutions, we're talking about the formal and the 499 00:31:48,813 --> 00:31:50,973 Speaker 3: informal rules of the game. If you like. That can 500 00:31:51,053 --> 00:31:55,773 Speaker 3: include organizations and so on. But in effect, institutions are 501 00:31:55,813 --> 00:31:59,933 Speaker 3: very difficult to change because they're meant to be decision 502 00:31:59,973 --> 00:32:05,373 Speaker 3: making tools that make things more efficient. You can imagine 503 00:32:05,373 --> 00:32:07,613 Speaker 3: if you had to vote for which day your garbage 504 00:32:07,613 --> 00:32:10,373 Speaker 3: would be collected every week. It would be ridiculous. Right, 505 00:32:10,493 --> 00:32:13,053 Speaker 3: So we have this institution where it just ticks along. 506 00:32:13,133 --> 00:32:16,053 Speaker 3: It takes care of business and hopefully in the interests 507 00:32:16,053 --> 00:32:18,693 Speaker 3: of the common good. But because the common good has 508 00:32:18,733 --> 00:32:21,573 Speaker 3: become less of a focus, these institutions have started to 509 00:32:21,573 --> 00:32:25,613 Speaker 3: focus on achieving the aims of identity, politics, and other things, 510 00:32:26,253 --> 00:32:30,053 Speaker 3: and in doing so, the institutions start to replicate themselves, 511 00:32:30,093 --> 00:32:32,613 Speaker 3: where they're bringing in people who have these same ideas 512 00:32:33,293 --> 00:32:37,653 Speaker 3: and on it goes. Now, typically institutions can't change themselves. 513 00:32:37,733 --> 00:32:40,653 Speaker 3: They have to be disrupted by an exogenist or an 514 00:32:40,693 --> 00:32:44,453 Speaker 3: external event. And in many ways I've argued this in 515 00:32:44,893 --> 00:32:49,853 Speaker 3: teaching leadership that leaders actually can be a force for change. 516 00:32:49,853 --> 00:32:53,093 Speaker 3: They can be a great disruptor that disrupts the institution, 517 00:32:53,773 --> 00:32:58,213 Speaker 3: and usually that's through their ideas or approaches to particular things. 518 00:32:58,253 --> 00:33:00,853 Speaker 3: So basically what we're seeing is Trump is now like 519 00:33:00,893 --> 00:33:05,733 Speaker 3: the great disruptor, which is disrupting these institutions. But having 520 00:33:05,773 --> 00:33:10,013 Speaker 3: said that, the institutions within states but also at the 521 00:33:10,133 --> 00:33:13,933 Speaker 3: UN system level, these institutions are exhausted. They're no longer 522 00:33:13,973 --> 00:33:17,533 Speaker 3: achieving the purposes that they were meant to achieve, which means, 523 00:33:17,813 --> 00:33:20,533 Speaker 3: and again on the theoretical idea, that they can't change 524 00:33:20,573 --> 00:33:27,173 Speaker 3: themselves otherwise they know. It's kind of like an institution 525 00:33:27,293 --> 00:33:30,133 Speaker 3: that's designed to keep the status quo. It can't change 526 00:33:30,133 --> 00:33:32,733 Speaker 3: itself otherwise, it can't keep the status quo, so it 527 00:33:32,773 --> 00:33:35,773 Speaker 3: has to be recreated, it has to be disrupted. Wars 528 00:33:35,813 --> 00:33:38,133 Speaker 3: are a great disruptor, of course, but like I said, Trump 529 00:33:38,173 --> 00:33:40,653 Speaker 3: is a disruptor as well, So there's a little bit 530 00:33:40,693 --> 00:33:45,333 Speaker 3: of inertia in institutions as well. And I think sometimes 531 00:33:45,373 --> 00:33:50,573 Speaker 3: it's easier to even disrupting the institution means that it 532 00:33:50,613 --> 00:33:53,973 Speaker 3: takes some time to change, whereas that incremental change that 533 00:33:54,053 --> 00:33:59,253 Speaker 3: occurs over time within the institution tends to be much 534 00:33:59,293 --> 00:34:01,693 Speaker 3: more difficult to overturn. It kind of creeps in. And 535 00:34:01,733 --> 00:34:04,413 Speaker 3: as you said about political correctness, and I remember that 536 00:34:04,893 --> 00:34:07,293 Speaker 3: exact book that you're talking about from the late eighties. 537 00:34:08,693 --> 00:34:11,373 Speaker 3: It was almost funny back then, but it was a 538 00:34:11,413 --> 00:34:14,813 Speaker 3: precursor to things that if we'd been more conscious. 539 00:34:14,453 --> 00:34:16,173 Speaker 2: Of we might have it was prophetic. 540 00:34:17,333 --> 00:34:20,733 Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely, yeah, yeah, but yeah, so look in terms 541 00:34:20,773 --> 00:34:23,493 Speaker 3: of institutions, I think that's the reason. It's the inertia 542 00:34:23,493 --> 00:34:27,053 Speaker 3: that it creates, and you basically have to undo them. 543 00:34:27,453 --> 00:34:29,653 Speaker 3: And what we're seeing at the moment if we have 544 00:34:29,733 --> 00:34:33,133 Speaker 3: these leftist governments in the rest of the Anglo West, 545 00:34:33,933 --> 00:34:37,133 Speaker 3: and of course give it a few years before Trump's 546 00:34:37,213 --> 00:34:40,693 Speaker 3: ideas come through here and look, in many ways, if 547 00:34:40,693 --> 00:34:44,653 Speaker 3: we can see I mean, I'm hoping that JD. Vance 548 00:34:45,253 --> 00:34:50,053 Speaker 3: will become president in twenty twenty eight, and if that's 549 00:34:50,093 --> 00:34:53,093 Speaker 3: the case, we might be able to see the continual 550 00:34:53,213 --> 00:34:56,893 Speaker 3: undoing of this identity politics that is creating all of 551 00:34:56,893 --> 00:34:58,173 Speaker 3: the problems for us at the moment. 552 00:34:58,293 --> 00:35:01,013 Speaker 2: I quote you something I know before I do. Tell 553 00:35:01,093 --> 00:35:03,533 Speaker 2: us what you teach each subject. 554 00:35:04,373 --> 00:35:10,453 Speaker 3: So I teach leadership in our MBA program. I having 555 00:35:10,493 --> 00:35:13,253 Speaker 3: been an Army officer, It's something that I've sort of 556 00:35:13,293 --> 00:35:18,333 Speaker 3: theoretically understood for a long time but also practically in practice, 557 00:35:19,053 --> 00:35:23,533 Speaker 3: and I teach this overseas in Bhutan and China. Locally, 558 00:35:23,573 --> 00:35:26,733 Speaker 3: I teach political leadership at an undergraduate level and I 559 00:35:26,773 --> 00:35:30,533 Speaker 3: also teach one of our subjects, which is called professional orientation, 560 00:35:31,133 --> 00:35:38,973 Speaker 3: and professional orientation is basically teaching my students how to 561 00:35:39,373 --> 00:35:42,853 Speaker 3: set up themselves during the time of their degree instead 562 00:35:42,853 --> 00:35:44,933 Speaker 3: of waiting till getting to the end and then wondering 563 00:35:45,013 --> 00:35:47,213 Speaker 3: what they're going to do with it. And I sort 564 00:35:47,253 --> 00:35:50,773 Speaker 3: of see it as my university is very much my students, 565 00:35:50,853 --> 00:35:54,253 Speaker 3: very much my people. I'm a Western Sydney boy then 566 00:35:54,293 --> 00:35:56,453 Speaker 3: grew up in far North Queensland. I live in the 567 00:35:56,493 --> 00:36:00,333 Speaker 3: regions now. A lot of my students are from similar circumstances, 568 00:36:00,373 --> 00:36:02,933 Speaker 3: and many of them, like me, are first in family 569 00:36:03,293 --> 00:36:06,933 Speaker 3: university graduates. So I work with my students in particular 570 00:36:06,973 --> 00:36:12,773 Speaker 3: to develop social and cultural capital, which means that instead 571 00:36:12,773 --> 00:36:14,733 Speaker 3: of going to your parents, who might have just been 572 00:36:15,173 --> 00:36:19,013 Speaker 3: working class, hard working people who don't understand university or 573 00:36:19,053 --> 00:36:22,613 Speaker 3: other advanced ideas of careers, you actually have a network 574 00:36:22,613 --> 00:36:24,893 Speaker 3: of people that can assist you. And that was certainly 575 00:36:24,893 --> 00:36:28,293 Speaker 3: the problem. That or not problem, but that was certainly 576 00:36:28,293 --> 00:36:31,733 Speaker 3: the circumstances that I grew up in, where the people 577 00:36:31,733 --> 00:36:34,653 Speaker 3: around me had no idea about these sort of high 578 00:36:34,693 --> 00:36:40,013 Speaker 3: falutant ideas of the academy and being an intellectual or 579 00:36:40,053 --> 00:36:42,493 Speaker 3: even journalism and things like that. So I try and 580 00:36:42,533 --> 00:36:46,173 Speaker 3: do my students. But that's currently I've been doing it 581 00:36:46,213 --> 00:36:49,533 Speaker 3: for some twenty years now, so it's changed over time. 582 00:36:50,053 --> 00:36:53,813 Speaker 2: What it quotes you something that I pulled specially for you. 583 00:36:55,053 --> 00:36:58,573 Speaker 2: Political scientists who dabble in the field have contributed to 584 00:36:58,653 --> 00:37:03,413 Speaker 2: the problem by providing empirical justification for the ideological tilt 585 00:37:03,573 --> 00:37:07,333 Speaker 2: to the left. It's often said that political scientists are 586 00:37:07,613 --> 00:37:12,573 Speaker 2: closet animists, who, in their deepest dreams, admire strong states 587 00:37:12,693 --> 00:37:17,493 Speaker 2: with well read bureaucrats who have the authority to order society. 588 00:37:18,133 --> 00:37:22,413 Speaker 2: Stanford's Francis Fukuyama is exhibit a of this tendency, having 589 00:37:22,453 --> 00:37:26,533 Speaker 2: intellectually drifted from supporting democracy to putting a quasi Leninist 590 00:37:26,573 --> 00:37:31,253 Speaker 2: emphasis on political order. Where did you go wrong? 591 00:37:33,453 --> 00:37:38,653 Speaker 3: It's interesting. I've attended a few of Francis Fukiyama's events, 592 00:37:38,693 --> 00:37:41,213 Speaker 3: and of course in the nineties he was talking about 593 00:37:41,213 --> 00:37:43,093 Speaker 3: the end of history of the last Man, which was 594 00:37:43,173 --> 00:37:46,493 Speaker 3: kind of like a slant on Marx, who saw historical 595 00:37:46,613 --> 00:37:51,453 Speaker 3: processes as undoing the institutional framework. As I mentioned before, 596 00:37:51,493 --> 00:37:57,733 Speaker 3: but it's interesting that Fukiyama went from suggesting that liberal 597 00:37:57,733 --> 00:38:01,253 Speaker 3: democracy had won the West and the rest to then 598 00:38:01,413 --> 00:38:06,013 Speaker 3: saying that, well, oops, you know, after September eleventh in 599 00:38:06,013 --> 00:38:08,813 Speaker 3: two thousand and one, that's sort of through. And I 600 00:38:09,053 --> 00:38:12,053 Speaker 3: don't mean to laugh about that, but it was the 601 00:38:12,093 --> 00:38:15,373 Speaker 3: situation that he had sort of made this statement that 602 00:38:15,453 --> 00:38:17,853 Speaker 3: it was the end of history, and then history just 603 00:38:18,053 --> 00:38:20,253 Speaker 3: came back to bite him and he had to change 604 00:38:20,253 --> 00:38:22,653 Speaker 3: his ideas and admit that he was wrong. And he 605 00:38:22,733 --> 00:38:25,893 Speaker 3: then started saying that identity politics was the greatest threat. 606 00:38:26,013 --> 00:38:29,173 Speaker 3: So I'm not quite sure that he would be exhibit 607 00:38:29,213 --> 00:38:33,293 Speaker 3: A in that way. Look, the thing for me is 608 00:38:33,333 --> 00:38:39,013 Speaker 3: that I'm very much a liberal Democrat in the way 609 00:38:39,053 --> 00:38:44,213 Speaker 3: that I believe that individuals are sovereign that they can 610 00:38:44,293 --> 00:38:47,133 Speaker 3: make the best decisions about their own welfare, that they 611 00:38:47,173 --> 00:38:49,613 Speaker 3: ought to be supported in that the role of government 612 00:38:49,933 --> 00:38:52,093 Speaker 3: is not to give us a vision, but to create 613 00:38:52,413 --> 00:38:55,733 Speaker 3: economic and social conditions that enable us to pursue our 614 00:38:55,733 --> 00:38:59,853 Speaker 3: own visions. So very much about the individual, but also 615 00:38:59,973 --> 00:39:02,853 Speaker 3: with a strong sense of the common good. And one 616 00:39:02,853 --> 00:39:05,733 Speaker 3: of the things that I've noticed, particularly in the academy 617 00:39:06,453 --> 00:39:10,173 Speaker 3: in the university sector, but they don't represent the ordinary people. 618 00:39:10,333 --> 00:39:12,973 Speaker 3: They represent their own elite and their own elite ideas. 619 00:39:13,053 --> 00:39:14,853 Speaker 3: And you know, we can go back to the London 620 00:39:14,853 --> 00:39:17,733 Speaker 3: School of Economics in the UK, which was established by 621 00:39:18,053 --> 00:39:21,333 Speaker 3: the Fabians in effect, and so a lot of that 622 00:39:21,413 --> 00:39:26,973 Speaker 3: sort of intellectual leftism, if you will, stems from that era. 623 00:39:27,413 --> 00:39:31,653 Speaker 3: But again it had as its basis looking after the 624 00:39:31,773 --> 00:39:34,853 Speaker 3: ordinary people, and of course that has since changed and 625 00:39:34,893 --> 00:39:38,053 Speaker 3: it's now about virtue signaling for the wealthy, inner city 626 00:39:38,093 --> 00:39:43,253 Speaker 3: elite at the expense of those ordinary Australians what Menzies 627 00:39:43,293 --> 00:39:46,133 Speaker 3: would have called the forgotten people. But the interesting thing 628 00:39:46,213 --> 00:39:49,053 Speaker 3: now is the forgotten people are a completely different group. 629 00:39:49,093 --> 00:39:52,653 Speaker 3: It's the traditional working class that are being left behind 630 00:39:52,893 --> 00:39:56,453 Speaker 3: by those who supposedly had their interests at heart. And 631 00:39:56,493 --> 00:39:58,373 Speaker 3: I guess for me, well not, I guess they know 632 00:39:58,493 --> 00:40:02,333 Speaker 3: for me. As soon as I sort of had my 633 00:40:02,533 --> 00:40:07,173 Speaker 3: damascene moment, so to speak, and I started representing and 634 00:40:07,213 --> 00:40:11,533 Speaker 3: writing for the people in the regions of a region Australia, 635 00:40:12,413 --> 00:40:15,693 Speaker 3: I found my audience and in many ways found my voice. 636 00:40:16,613 --> 00:40:20,133 Speaker 3: And you know, it actually feel like I have a 637 00:40:20,173 --> 00:40:22,333 Speaker 3: sense of purpose, whereas before it seemed to be this 638 00:40:22,413 --> 00:40:26,693 Speaker 3: sort of fake intellectualism that had at its roote not 639 00:40:27,733 --> 00:40:31,933 Speaker 3: looking after ordinary people, but in effect like you say, 640 00:40:31,933 --> 00:40:37,533 Speaker 3: a closet Leninist designed to create the sort of the 641 00:40:41,093 --> 00:40:44,053 Speaker 3: dictatorship of the proletariat that would then teach the players 642 00:40:44,093 --> 00:40:46,333 Speaker 3: how to think. And we're sort of seeing that in 643 00:40:46,413 --> 00:40:48,933 Speaker 3: many ways, whereas a liberal Democrat would be looking at 644 00:40:49,413 --> 00:40:52,853 Speaker 3: learning how to think as opposed to telling people what 645 00:40:52,933 --> 00:40:53,293 Speaker 3: to think. 646 00:40:54,693 --> 00:40:58,813 Speaker 2: There are two two professors who have taught in this country. 647 00:40:59,133 --> 00:41:04,493 Speaker 2: Jim Allen is one and the other is Ramasakur, both 648 00:41:04,493 --> 00:41:07,933 Speaker 2: of whom you'd be familiar with, and they have taken 649 00:41:07,973 --> 00:41:11,453 Speaker 2: themselves off to Australia and been there for some time. 650 00:41:12,133 --> 00:41:14,013 Speaker 2: We missed them, I my dad, as far as the 651 00:41:14,133 --> 00:41:18,253 Speaker 2: education system here is concerned. But I know that I 652 00:41:18,293 --> 00:41:23,253 Speaker 2: know that Jim struggles to some degree amongst the literati 653 00:41:23,693 --> 00:41:28,413 Speaker 2: at university from her well where he doesn't quite fit in. 654 00:41:28,933 --> 00:41:33,693 Speaker 2: He's very brave man. And Ramesh has called it quits 655 00:41:33,733 --> 00:41:36,293 Speaker 2: in Canberra. And did you know him by the way 656 00:41:36,293 --> 00:41:36,773 Speaker 2: in Canberra? 657 00:41:37,893 --> 00:41:41,773 Speaker 3: No, not personally, but we've certainly corresponded. 658 00:41:41,093 --> 00:41:45,573 Speaker 2: You, yeah, and has moved farther north to a bit 659 00:41:45,613 --> 00:41:48,733 Speaker 2: of climate. They have survived and they continue to contribute 660 00:41:49,693 --> 00:41:52,813 Speaker 2: as you are. But what I'm wondering is how you 661 00:41:52,853 --> 00:41:56,493 Speaker 2: get away with being to the right as you are, 662 00:41:56,853 --> 00:42:00,253 Speaker 2: however you want to describe it. You're a standout and 663 00:42:00,333 --> 00:42:02,093 Speaker 2: I would have thought that you would be on the 664 00:42:02,133 --> 00:42:04,733 Speaker 2: receiving end of some considerable objection. 665 00:42:06,773 --> 00:42:10,333 Speaker 3: That was certainly the case in this but that not 666 00:42:10,413 --> 00:42:14,973 Speaker 3: so much rejection, but the being told what to do, 667 00:42:15,093 --> 00:42:18,133 Speaker 3: I guess doesn't really sit well with me, even though 668 00:42:18,173 --> 00:42:22,173 Speaker 3: I was in the military. It's quite kind of an anomaly. 669 00:42:22,573 --> 00:42:25,813 Speaker 3: But I found that it was just by sticking to 670 00:42:25,853 --> 00:42:28,773 Speaker 3: my digs over time. And look, I must admit, like 671 00:42:28,813 --> 00:42:33,613 Speaker 3: I said to, my university were very much focused on 672 00:42:33,933 --> 00:42:38,373 Speaker 3: giving ordinary Australians a practical education that helps with their 673 00:42:38,773 --> 00:42:42,533 Speaker 3: employment and other things, and so I fit in extremely 674 00:42:42,573 --> 00:42:47,573 Speaker 3: well with that university. And our school has prided itself 675 00:42:47,613 --> 00:42:51,053 Speaker 3: on its diversity of opinion as well, which is quite unusual. 676 00:42:51,373 --> 00:42:57,093 Speaker 3: So in many ways, aside from some initial reluctance that 677 00:42:57,253 --> 00:43:00,933 Speaker 3: was later on embraced, and I think that's the case 678 00:43:00,973 --> 00:43:04,253 Speaker 3: with many people. You basically have to establish yourself and 679 00:43:04,293 --> 00:43:07,053 Speaker 3: once you've done that, people just have to get on 680 00:43:07,133 --> 00:43:10,133 Speaker 3: with it because they're not going to change. So I've 681 00:43:10,173 --> 00:43:12,653 Speaker 3: had that experience, and look, I'm very grateful to my 682 00:43:12,773 --> 00:43:18,653 Speaker 3: university for that experience. And it hasn't been what I've 683 00:43:18,693 --> 00:43:21,973 Speaker 3: seen certainly in other places. And again that's one of 684 00:43:21,973 --> 00:43:24,573 Speaker 3: the reasons why I've worked there for twenty years. But 685 00:43:25,213 --> 00:43:27,973 Speaker 3: to be honest, I'm actually finishing up in July. I've 686 00:43:27,973 --> 00:43:30,373 Speaker 3: been there twenty years. I'm feeling rather stale, and I'm 687 00:43:30,373 --> 00:43:33,053 Speaker 3: going to move on. And one of the other emeritus 688 00:43:33,093 --> 00:43:36,893 Speaker 3: professors said that I'm probably the last of the conservative academics. 689 00:43:37,893 --> 00:43:41,893 Speaker 3: But look again, I think our education system is exhausted. 690 00:43:42,973 --> 00:43:46,893 Speaker 3: Artificial intelligence is going to replace so many people, and 691 00:43:46,933 --> 00:43:49,413 Speaker 3: I'm seeing it already. I'm dabbling in the area at 692 00:43:49,413 --> 00:43:54,333 Speaker 3: the moment in terms of using it as a personal assistant, 693 00:43:54,533 --> 00:43:59,093 Speaker 3: using it for conducting literature reviews. And it's not going 694 00:43:59,133 --> 00:44:02,693 Speaker 3: to replace the intellectual rigor that's needed for research, but 695 00:44:02,733 --> 00:44:07,413 Speaker 3: it's certainly going to reduce the staffing requirements that traditionally 696 00:44:07,573 --> 00:44:11,333 Speaker 3: were very expensive. But also I think that there's going 697 00:44:11,373 --> 00:44:13,413 Speaker 3: to have to be some sort of change in things 698 00:44:13,733 --> 00:44:17,053 Speaker 3: because those the old institution that has been captured by 699 00:44:17,053 --> 00:44:20,173 Speaker 3: the left is not actually producing people who are useful 700 00:44:20,173 --> 00:44:23,453 Speaker 3: in the economy. You know, we've got business skills that 701 00:44:23,533 --> 00:44:31,453 Speaker 3: have exclusively focused on gender studies, focusing absolutely Yeah, you know, 702 00:44:31,773 --> 00:44:33,373 Speaker 3: we've got to give. 703 00:44:33,213 --> 00:44:35,333 Speaker 2: Me, give me one or two so that people will 704 00:44:35,453 --> 00:44:36,293 Speaker 2: know to avoid them. 705 00:44:37,933 --> 00:44:40,613 Speaker 3: Well, look, I mean, I guess you'd have to discern 706 00:44:40,693 --> 00:44:43,013 Speaker 3: this from your own sort of reading of the media. 707 00:44:43,413 --> 00:44:46,933 Speaker 3: I probably wouldn't. I wouldn't just yet. Maybe after July 708 00:44:47,413 --> 00:44:50,493 Speaker 3: I'll speak a bit more freely, I guess. But my 709 00:44:50,573 --> 00:44:54,813 Speaker 3: point is though that instead of focusing on key things 710 00:44:54,893 --> 00:44:58,133 Speaker 3: like the mining and resources sector in Australia, we have 711 00:44:58,253 --> 00:45:02,053 Speaker 3: academics who actively think that that's morally wrong to actually 712 00:45:02,093 --> 00:45:05,293 Speaker 3: support this industry. And this is where it becomes really bizarre, 713 00:45:05,333 --> 00:45:08,613 Speaker 3: because without the mining and resources sector, Australia be a 714 00:45:08,653 --> 00:45:12,853 Speaker 3: third world country full stop. And people just don't appreciate that. So, 715 00:45:13,453 --> 00:45:15,013 Speaker 3: you know, it's all well and good to have these 716 00:45:15,053 --> 00:45:18,173 Speaker 3: sort of high moral principles, but to forget the fact 717 00:45:18,253 --> 00:45:21,413 Speaker 3: that you can only have these high moral principles because 718 00:45:21,453 --> 00:45:25,693 Speaker 3: of a particular sector of the economy is just ridiculous. So, 719 00:45:25,973 --> 00:45:28,413 Speaker 3: you know, for me, I think we ought to be 720 00:45:28,453 --> 00:45:33,373 Speaker 3: focusing more on these major sort of elements of the economy, 721 00:45:33,453 --> 00:45:39,333 Speaker 3: like transport, telecommunications. There's hardly anywhere that's teaching these things now. 722 00:45:39,813 --> 00:45:44,413 Speaker 3: Economics is probably one of the most in demand careers. 723 00:45:44,893 --> 00:45:48,293 Speaker 3: Yet people are moving away from teaching it properly by 724 00:45:48,333 --> 00:45:53,693 Speaker 3: incorporating mathematics and statistics. So we're like taking the easy 725 00:45:53,773 --> 00:45:57,853 Speaker 3: path in so many things, and we're not producing the 726 00:45:57,893 --> 00:46:00,373 Speaker 3: skills that are needed. So these skills still have to 727 00:46:00,373 --> 00:46:03,973 Speaker 3: come from somewhere. So I think there's an opportunity for 728 00:46:04,013 --> 00:46:06,133 Speaker 3: disruption in higher education in particular. 729 00:46:06,573 --> 00:46:11,613 Speaker 2: And yet this was from the Australian over the weekend. 730 00:46:12,373 --> 00:46:15,813 Speaker 2: A law degree needs to teach serious, complex content, not 731 00:46:15,853 --> 00:46:19,573 Speaker 2: imposed mind bending in doctrination, as is the case at 732 00:46:19,613 --> 00:46:24,413 Speaker 2: Macquarie University Law School. Students in law s or Laws 733 00:46:24,613 --> 00:46:28,613 Speaker 2: five five will fail part of their degrees if they 734 00:46:28,653 --> 00:46:33,213 Speaker 2: deliver an acknowledgment of country in an oral presentation with 735 00:46:34,013 --> 00:46:36,573 Speaker 2: insufficient passion and sincerity. 736 00:46:37,773 --> 00:46:45,293 Speaker 3: Please. It's yeah, this is identity politics in its extreme. 737 00:46:45,733 --> 00:46:48,933 Speaker 3: I mean, firstly, you know there's no law against you 738 00:46:49,093 --> 00:46:53,733 Speaker 3: not doing an acknowledgment of country. And you know, look, 739 00:46:53,893 --> 00:46:57,373 Speaker 3: I find this bizarre. My great grandmother was Camillroy and 740 00:46:57,413 --> 00:47:00,173 Speaker 3: she was committed to being in Australian. I guarantee you 741 00:47:00,253 --> 00:47:03,813 Speaker 3: she would have voted against the voice a referendum in Australia. 742 00:47:04,293 --> 00:47:06,213 Speaker 3: But you're not allowed to say that you're not allowed 743 00:47:06,213 --> 00:47:09,053 Speaker 3: to be that type of you know, INDI genous person 744 00:47:09,373 --> 00:47:14,293 Speaker 3: has been proven. And it's again what we're seeing is 745 00:47:14,333 --> 00:47:17,933 Speaker 3: this sort of the wok araty embracing these concepts, forcing 746 00:47:17,973 --> 00:47:21,293 Speaker 3: it on others. But really they're not doing anything to 747 00:47:21,733 --> 00:47:25,933 Speaker 3: you know, fix the problems or the circumstances that are occurring. 748 00:47:26,413 --> 00:47:30,733 Speaker 3: You know, obviously in indigenous people throughout the world have 749 00:47:30,853 --> 00:47:34,333 Speaker 3: had a raw deal historically, and you know, there are 750 00:47:34,373 --> 00:47:36,413 Speaker 3: things that need to be done to improve that. But 751 00:47:36,893 --> 00:47:39,453 Speaker 3: you know, these having an acknowledgment of country and then 752 00:47:39,453 --> 00:47:42,573 Speaker 3: assessing somebody on the passion that they displayed. I mean, 753 00:47:42,573 --> 00:47:44,733 Speaker 3: this is the most subjective thing I've ever heard of. 754 00:47:45,013 --> 00:47:47,053 Speaker 3: How do you do that? You know, and people are 755 00:47:47,093 --> 00:47:50,213 Speaker 3: passionate in different ways. It's like grief. People grieve in 756 00:47:50,253 --> 00:47:54,093 Speaker 3: different ways. So but again this is just showing how 757 00:47:54,253 --> 00:47:58,693 Speaker 3: extreme this is becoming. But look that I'm pretty sure 758 00:47:58,693 --> 00:48:00,933 Speaker 3: we're going to see that that gets undone rather quickly 759 00:48:00,973 --> 00:48:07,013 Speaker 3: because it's embarrassing and it's certainly it certainly is not 760 00:48:08,413 --> 00:48:12,253 Speaker 3: about liberal democracy, is it. I mean, it's effectively telling 761 00:48:12,333 --> 00:48:15,373 Speaker 3: you what to think and how to behave, which is 762 00:48:15,773 --> 00:48:18,213 Speaker 3: you know, what we'd usually refer to as a dictatorship. 763 00:48:18,813 --> 00:48:21,013 Speaker 2: Well, so much of it has sunk into the business world. 764 00:48:21,213 --> 00:48:24,093 Speaker 2: And I think of Qantas just as the first example, 765 00:48:24,973 --> 00:48:30,213 Speaker 2: and the way that public companies are run and they've 766 00:48:30,493 --> 00:48:32,373 Speaker 2: and they've got away with it. 767 00:48:31,773 --> 00:48:36,933 Speaker 3: Is it retreating, Yes, it's starting to. But you can 768 00:48:36,973 --> 00:48:41,013 Speaker 3: see some resistance, particular in Australia in the UK. But 769 00:48:41,093 --> 00:48:45,213 Speaker 3: in effect, as soon as Donald Trump, you know, came 770 00:48:45,293 --> 00:48:49,213 Speaker 3: in and made some executive orders around genders and around 771 00:48:49,613 --> 00:48:52,253 Speaker 3: DEI and all this sort of stuff. As soon as 772 00:48:52,293 --> 00:48:54,573 Speaker 3: that happened, some of the major companies in the world 773 00:48:54,613 --> 00:48:58,693 Speaker 3: started backtracking. And I think, you know what, Look, it's 774 00:48:58,693 --> 00:49:01,613 Speaker 3: not unusual for businesses to want to work in with 775 00:49:01,653 --> 00:49:05,733 Speaker 3: a particular government. We saw that in Australia. I remember 776 00:49:05,733 --> 00:49:09,453 Speaker 3: seeing Chris Bowen with the Business Council of Australia in 777 00:49:09,533 --> 00:49:12,213 Speaker 3: tow wherever he wins. And now we're starting to see, 778 00:49:12,253 --> 00:49:14,493 Speaker 3: because of the economy and because of the failures of 779 00:49:14,533 --> 00:49:17,413 Speaker 3: their energy policy, the business community is starting to say, well, 780 00:49:17,453 --> 00:49:19,653 Speaker 3: hang on a minute. You know you promised all this stuff. 781 00:49:19,653 --> 00:49:22,853 Speaker 3: It's not working. We supported you, it's not working, and 782 00:49:22,893 --> 00:49:25,133 Speaker 3: we're seeing that with DEI and other things. 783 00:49:25,613 --> 00:49:29,053 Speaker 2: I want to go back to AI as you mentioned, 784 00:49:29,093 --> 00:49:30,853 Speaker 2: because there were a couple of things that spun off 785 00:49:30,853 --> 00:49:36,533 Speaker 2: from that. This was a literal conversation yesterday with somebody 786 00:49:37,693 --> 00:49:43,813 Speaker 2: to do with editing of television news. So you've got 787 00:49:43,853 --> 00:49:47,333 Speaker 2: scenes coming out of Ukraine, for instance, that are really 788 00:49:47,413 --> 00:49:50,493 Speaker 2: unsuitable for the public and they have to be edited. 789 00:49:50,693 --> 00:49:53,813 Speaker 2: How would you How would you because I said there's 790 00:49:53,813 --> 00:49:56,093 Speaker 2: no way you can you can do it? How would 791 00:49:56,133 --> 00:50:02,493 Speaker 2: you train a machine AI to do the editing on 792 00:50:02,533 --> 00:50:05,973 Speaker 2: its own, of editing out the bits that weren't that 793 00:50:06,053 --> 00:50:09,053 Speaker 2: weren't appropriate. How would you train at the start of 794 00:50:09,133 --> 00:50:12,133 Speaker 2: a certain spot and cities at a certain spot. 795 00:50:12,653 --> 00:50:15,973 Speaker 3: Look, I'm not involved in that technical side of things, 796 00:50:16,253 --> 00:50:18,973 Speaker 3: and in terms of all of the technologies. Look, I 797 00:50:19,013 --> 00:50:21,293 Speaker 3: was using Facebook and my teaching back in two thousand 798 00:50:21,333 --> 00:50:25,453 Speaker 3: and seven, so I'd probably more of a superuser as 799 00:50:25,453 --> 00:50:30,413 Speaker 3: opposed to somebody who designs or develops these systems. I 800 00:50:30,453 --> 00:50:34,573 Speaker 3: think the thing with AI, it's much like an institution. 801 00:50:34,733 --> 00:50:37,173 Speaker 3: It can only deal with the past. It can't deal 802 00:50:37,213 --> 00:50:40,133 Speaker 3: with the future. And that's where I mean. Look, it 803 00:50:40,173 --> 00:50:43,053 Speaker 3: can help in terms of planning, it can help in 804 00:50:43,133 --> 00:50:47,613 Speaker 3: terms of all sorts of creative solutions to problems, but 805 00:50:48,293 --> 00:50:51,013 Speaker 3: it's a resource. It's not the be all and the 806 00:50:51,093 --> 00:50:54,293 Speaker 3: end all, and I think that's part of the issue 807 00:50:54,333 --> 00:50:59,213 Speaker 3: is that you can't use AI. It's artificial intelligence, it's 808 00:50:59,253 --> 00:51:02,053 Speaker 3: not false intelligence, so you need a level of human 809 00:51:02,093 --> 00:51:04,613 Speaker 3: intelligence to be able to use it as a tool. 810 00:51:05,493 --> 00:51:08,493 Speaker 3: So the thing about AI is that it makes things 811 00:51:08,493 --> 00:51:11,053 Speaker 3: more efficient. It could be the case that you could 812 00:51:11,213 --> 00:51:17,813 Speaker 3: train it to go through footage, and based on that, look, 813 00:51:17,853 --> 00:51:19,973 Speaker 3: we can already see that if you want to search 814 00:51:20,693 --> 00:51:22,973 Speaker 3: a photo in your phone, you can put in a 815 00:51:23,053 --> 00:51:25,493 Speaker 3: topic and or bring up all of your pets or 816 00:51:25,653 --> 00:51:27,893 Speaker 3: all of your travels or whatever it is. So you 817 00:51:27,893 --> 00:51:30,293 Speaker 3: know that we can see already that this does work. 818 00:51:30,333 --> 00:51:32,253 Speaker 3: But that doesn't mean it's going to select the exact 819 00:51:32,293 --> 00:51:35,173 Speaker 3: photo that you wanted. You'd still have to It basically 820 00:51:35,253 --> 00:51:38,613 Speaker 3: narrows it down and enables you to then find what 821 00:51:38,613 --> 00:51:40,853 Speaker 3: you're looking for. And I dare say, in terms of editing, 822 00:51:41,333 --> 00:51:43,453 Speaker 3: that would be the case where you'd be presented with 823 00:51:43,653 --> 00:51:48,653 Speaker 3: less of the raw footage that you could then tweak minorly, 824 00:51:48,973 --> 00:51:52,053 Speaker 3: as opposed to having to scroll through. So just give 825 00:51:52,093 --> 00:51:56,773 Speaker 3: you an example in the past, if I was conducting research, 826 00:51:56,973 --> 00:51:59,933 Speaker 3: So going back to my undergrad degree, where my assignments 827 00:51:59,933 --> 00:52:02,573 Speaker 3: were handwritten, I'd have to go to the library and 828 00:52:02,613 --> 00:52:05,293 Speaker 3: read all these books and highlight them and produce cards 829 00:52:05,333 --> 00:52:07,933 Speaker 3: and so on. And then, of course, when Google came along, 830 00:52:08,333 --> 00:52:12,613 Speaker 3: divided that the references were available online, and increasingly they 831 00:52:12,653 --> 00:52:16,253 Speaker 3: are now through library databases at universities. I could do 832 00:52:16,293 --> 00:52:20,653 Speaker 3: Google searches or search the catalog and find these resources 833 00:52:20,653 --> 00:52:23,573 Speaker 3: and draw on them. Now the thing is now I 834 00:52:23,613 --> 00:52:26,133 Speaker 3: can actually get AI to do that, and I'm finding 835 00:52:26,213 --> 00:52:29,493 Speaker 3: that a year's worth of work just in finding the 836 00:52:29,653 --> 00:52:33,013 Speaker 3: sources that I want to look at, a year's worth 837 00:52:33,053 --> 00:52:35,533 Speaker 3: of work is taking twenty minutes. Now, I mean, you know, 838 00:52:35,573 --> 00:52:38,653 Speaker 3: that's an incredible level of efficiency. But it doesn't mean 839 00:52:38,653 --> 00:52:40,973 Speaker 3: that I can just let AI write what I'm doing. 840 00:52:41,013 --> 00:52:43,213 Speaker 3: I still have to, you know, I'm still in control 841 00:52:43,253 --> 00:52:45,453 Speaker 3: of what's happening. But it does all of that sort 842 00:52:45,493 --> 00:52:48,133 Speaker 3: of grunt work. And traditionally too, I would have employed 843 00:52:48,173 --> 00:52:50,973 Speaker 3: research assistance to go and do that work. I would 844 00:52:50,973 --> 00:52:53,293 Speaker 3: then look at what they'd done and sort of narrow 845 00:52:53,293 --> 00:52:55,613 Speaker 3: it down from there. But what I'm finding with AI 846 00:52:55,813 --> 00:52:58,773 Speaker 3: is it's replacing those people. They don't need to hire 847 00:52:58,813 --> 00:53:01,053 Speaker 3: somebody to do it. Now I can get AI to 848 00:53:01,093 --> 00:53:04,093 Speaker 3: do that, but you can't take away that, or at 849 00:53:04,173 --> 00:53:06,853 Speaker 3: least not in our lifetime or my lifetime. I don't 850 00:53:06,853 --> 00:53:09,933 Speaker 3: think in terms of of I don't think it's going 851 00:53:10,013 --> 00:53:11,933 Speaker 3: to do everything for us, but it's certainly going to 852 00:53:11,933 --> 00:53:15,533 Speaker 3: make things more efficient. And I'm finding that already in 853 00:53:15,573 --> 00:53:16,693 Speaker 3: the most incredible ways. 854 00:53:17,653 --> 00:53:20,693 Speaker 2: You don't think that, And we've reached or we're on 855 00:53:20,733 --> 00:53:24,173 Speaker 2: the verge of reaching the point where they can self create. 856 00:53:26,933 --> 00:53:28,893 Speaker 3: Look, I'm not sure about that, and I guess now 857 00:53:28,893 --> 00:53:32,293 Speaker 3: we're starting to talk about cybernetics. You know, that crossover 858 00:53:32,373 --> 00:53:37,493 Speaker 3: of humans and machines, and it's not really my sort 859 00:53:37,493 --> 00:53:38,453 Speaker 3: of specially. 860 00:53:38,613 --> 00:53:40,413 Speaker 2: Does it frighten you? 861 00:53:40,453 --> 00:53:43,293 Speaker 3: No, No, it doesn't. And it's interesting because we use 862 00:53:43,973 --> 00:53:47,213 Speaker 3: we use AI around the house. We have the those 863 00:53:47,453 --> 00:53:51,093 Speaker 3: Google Nest speakers throughout the house, and it's incredible. You 864 00:53:51,573 --> 00:53:53,693 Speaker 3: need to know about the weather, you ask it a question, 865 00:53:54,293 --> 00:53:56,213 Speaker 3: it gives you the answer. Now, the answer is not 866 00:53:56,213 --> 00:54:00,053 Speaker 3: always great, and it's not it's extremely imperfect. But at 867 00:54:00,053 --> 00:54:02,693 Speaker 3: the same time, when you don't have that tool, it's 868 00:54:02,733 --> 00:54:06,973 Speaker 3: amazing how much you miss it. So you know, look, 869 00:54:07,013 --> 00:54:09,933 Speaker 3: I just find that it gives us this incredible amount 870 00:54:09,933 --> 00:54:12,653 Speaker 3: of access to information. But again, it's not going to 871 00:54:13,933 --> 00:54:16,213 Speaker 3: it's not going to do the hard work for us, 872 00:54:16,253 --> 00:54:20,693 Speaker 3: and I think the hard work. It's interesting that there 873 00:54:20,733 --> 00:54:25,653 Speaker 3: was a book Deep Work came from a professor of 874 00:54:25,813 --> 00:54:29,013 Speaker 3: computer science in the US, and he was talking about 875 00:54:29,133 --> 00:54:31,613 Speaker 3: needing to do at least four hours of deep work 876 00:54:31,653 --> 00:54:35,333 Speaker 3: per day that added value to something, and he was 877 00:54:35,373 --> 00:54:37,373 Speaker 3: saying that if you didn't do this in the future, 878 00:54:37,933 --> 00:54:40,773 Speaker 3: what would happen is you'd be replaced by some sort 879 00:54:40,773 --> 00:54:45,933 Speaker 3: of machine or program. And in many ways, people who 880 00:54:45,973 --> 00:54:49,693 Speaker 3: receive emails and then forward that email onto someone else, 881 00:54:50,173 --> 00:54:52,933 Speaker 3: they're effectively going to be replaced by some sort of 882 00:54:53,013 --> 00:54:57,613 Speaker 3: routing system, and we're seeing that happening already. So there's 883 00:54:57,653 --> 00:55:01,013 Speaker 3: still that requirement for deep work, but it's much more creative, 884 00:55:01,093 --> 00:55:05,933 Speaker 3: it's much more intellectual, and in many ways it's much 885 00:55:05,933 --> 00:55:10,173 Speaker 3: more interesting. So look, I just find that it's it's fascinating, 886 00:55:10,213 --> 00:55:14,053 Speaker 3: but it's also very helpful, and for those who are 887 00:55:14,053 --> 00:55:15,853 Speaker 3: not sort of getting into it, they're going to be 888 00:55:16,573 --> 00:55:20,893 Speaker 3: left behind, at least initially. But look, having said that, 889 00:55:21,813 --> 00:55:25,853 Speaker 3: I realized that in around two thousand and seven, when 890 00:55:26,413 --> 00:55:29,693 Speaker 3: and Twitter sort of came online. Now X, there was 891 00:55:29,733 --> 00:55:32,573 Speaker 3: this belief that it was going to democratize the world 892 00:55:32,613 --> 00:55:34,733 Speaker 3: and democratize the media and all the rest of it. 893 00:55:35,133 --> 00:55:38,653 Speaker 3: Pretty soon well a few years after, Yeah, the legacy 894 00:55:38,693 --> 00:55:42,853 Speaker 3: media effectively redominated all of those new areas. But we're 895 00:55:42,853 --> 00:55:46,773 Speaker 3: seeing that happening again now, not because of this desire 896 00:55:46,853 --> 00:55:50,413 Speaker 3: for democratization, but the simple fact is that the old institutions, 897 00:55:50,493 --> 00:55:54,093 Speaker 3: the media institutions, are so expensive. Like your podcast, you 898 00:55:54,133 --> 00:55:56,973 Speaker 3: can do this now more efficiently and better because you're 899 00:55:56,973 --> 00:55:59,613 Speaker 3: more hands on and involved in it than if you 900 00:55:59,693 --> 00:56:02,573 Speaker 3: had this sort of team in a legacy environment where 901 00:56:02,573 --> 00:56:05,813 Speaker 3: you have to pay for officers and studios and all 902 00:56:05,853 --> 00:56:08,373 Speaker 3: these different things, and the legacy media is finding it 903 00:56:08,453 --> 00:56:11,253 Speaker 3: too expensive to produce the content that people want. 904 00:56:12,293 --> 00:56:19,133 Speaker 2: You recently had some issues with a government department on misinformation. 905 00:56:19,333 --> 00:56:21,853 Speaker 2: Disinformation tell us the story briefly. 906 00:56:24,173 --> 00:56:28,693 Speaker 3: So briefly, I was arguing that what we're seeing in Australia, 907 00:56:28,893 --> 00:56:33,493 Speaker 3: the most successful political party, the Liberal Party, established by Mensis, 908 00:56:33,573 --> 00:56:36,933 Speaker 3: brought some eighteen non labor groups together, and we're starting 909 00:56:36,973 --> 00:56:42,373 Speaker 3: to see that group fracturing into smaller conservative parties. And 910 00:56:42,573 --> 00:56:45,813 Speaker 3: one of my concerns is that whenever the conservative parties 911 00:56:46,813 --> 00:56:50,053 Speaker 3: fracture in this way, the vote fractures, which means we 912 00:56:50,093 --> 00:56:52,853 Speaker 3: tend to end up with a labor government. On the left, 913 00:56:52,893 --> 00:56:54,573 Speaker 3: they tend to all sort of vote as a group, 914 00:56:54,613 --> 00:56:56,933 Speaker 3: whereas on the right we tend to think for ourselves 915 00:56:57,013 --> 00:57:00,133 Speaker 3: and therefore we might want to punish a group who's 916 00:57:00,133 --> 00:57:02,053 Speaker 3: not doing what we expect them to and so on. 917 00:57:02,133 --> 00:57:04,893 Speaker 3: So I wrote about that because I was concerned about that, 918 00:57:04,933 --> 00:57:08,013 Speaker 3: and I looked at some historical processes in terms of 919 00:57:08,133 --> 00:57:13,613 Speaker 3: primary votes, and traditionally the coalition party, the Liberal and 920 00:57:13,693 --> 00:57:16,453 Speaker 3: National parties in Australia have to get more than forty 921 00:57:16,493 --> 00:57:19,653 Speaker 3: one percent of the vote and also beat of the 922 00:57:19,693 --> 00:57:22,613 Speaker 3: primary vote and also beat the Labor and the Greens 923 00:57:22,693 --> 00:57:25,573 Speaker 3: primary vote in order to win government. And the only 924 00:57:25,613 --> 00:57:27,853 Speaker 3: time this hasn't happened is when the left has been 925 00:57:27,893 --> 00:57:32,093 Speaker 3: fractured in a similar way. And somebody took what I'd 926 00:57:32,133 --> 00:57:38,093 Speaker 3: written as saying that I didn't understand the preferential voting system, 927 00:57:38,653 --> 00:57:41,573 Speaker 3: and I was saying that I had said that if 928 00:57:41,653 --> 00:57:45,013 Speaker 3: you didn't give your primary vote to the coalition, the 929 00:57:45,053 --> 00:57:48,813 Speaker 3: candidate couldn't win, which is absolute nonsense. I didn't say that. 930 00:57:48,853 --> 00:57:53,493 Speaker 3: I said, based on the historical situation, giving your primary 931 00:57:53,573 --> 00:57:57,693 Speaker 3: vote to anything other than the coalition is a suboptimal 932 00:57:57,773 --> 00:58:01,293 Speaker 3: way of ensuring that you end up with a conservative government. 933 00:58:01,733 --> 00:58:05,493 Speaker 3: And so I was taken to task on Twitter. Mind you, 934 00:58:05,613 --> 00:58:07,973 Speaker 3: so I don't know who this person was, what they're 935 00:58:08,013 --> 00:58:11,053 Speaker 3: qualations were, anything like that, but I was taken to 936 00:58:11,133 --> 00:58:16,333 Speaker 3: task by them, and I requested an apology from the department, 937 00:58:16,333 --> 00:58:21,093 Speaker 3: and of course I received no such a policy apology, 938 00:58:21,373 --> 00:58:24,733 Speaker 3: but I was effectively defamed by them, And in their 939 00:58:24,773 --> 00:58:28,573 Speaker 3: response they basically went from saying that it was disinformation, 940 00:58:28,773 --> 00:58:33,013 Speaker 3: to then misinformation, to then saying that these statistical possibilities 941 00:58:33,013 --> 00:58:36,693 Speaker 3: were so vast that nobody really knew, you know, what 942 00:58:36,733 --> 00:58:38,373 Speaker 3: the result could be. And I just thought that this 943 00:58:38,533 --> 00:58:43,533 Speaker 3: was so bizarre that this government department, an anonymous person 944 00:58:43,733 --> 00:58:48,813 Speaker 3: on social media could effectively defame me and uh and 945 00:58:48,853 --> 00:58:52,213 Speaker 3: then just doing you know, nothing could possibly happen about it, 946 00:58:52,493 --> 00:58:56,853 Speaker 3: and all under the guys of misinformation and disinformation. In effect, 947 00:58:56,893 --> 00:59:01,333 Speaker 3: what happened to me mirrored the critiques of the misinformation 948 00:59:01,413 --> 00:59:05,573 Speaker 3: and disinformation laws that effectively people could use these to 949 00:59:05,613 --> 00:59:07,813 Speaker 3: achieve their own political lends and there'd be nothing that 950 00:59:07,893 --> 00:59:12,613 Speaker 3: citizens could do about it. So I'm extremely glad that 951 00:59:12,733 --> 00:59:16,733 Speaker 3: none of that has been approved in terms of legislation. 952 00:59:17,373 --> 00:59:21,293 Speaker 3: But what's interesting is that the coalition government that effectively 953 00:59:21,333 --> 00:59:24,373 Speaker 3: I was suggesting people or to give their primary vote 954 00:59:24,373 --> 00:59:27,133 Speaker 3: to if they wanted a conservative government, they've been backing 955 00:59:27,173 --> 00:59:30,693 Speaker 3: some of these moves as well, and so it's a 956 00:59:30,773 --> 00:59:33,213 Speaker 3: real sort of chicken and egg problem is that if 957 00:59:33,213 --> 00:59:37,853 Speaker 3: the conservative major parties won't actually stand by their principles, 958 00:59:37,893 --> 00:59:41,093 Speaker 3: then people are going to vote for conservative minor parties, 959 00:59:41,253 --> 00:59:42,573 Speaker 3: which means that we're going to end up with a 960 00:59:42,613 --> 00:59:44,573 Speaker 3: labor government. But they just can't sort of seem to 961 00:59:44,613 --> 00:59:47,613 Speaker 3: see this, and that's what concerns me, because nobody can 962 00:59:47,653 --> 00:59:49,773 Speaker 3: afford another three years of this current government. 963 00:59:50,213 --> 00:59:52,133 Speaker 2: Okay, that takes me to something I was going to 964 00:59:52,133 --> 00:59:54,253 Speaker 2: ask for and then decided I've asked it so many 965 00:59:54,253 --> 00:59:57,173 Speaker 2: times in the last few years. I wouldn't repeat it. 966 00:59:57,253 --> 01:00:00,053 Speaker 2: But I'm going to explain to me pleased if you can. 967 01:00:00,173 --> 01:00:02,773 Speaker 2: I was born in Melbourne. My grandfather was a mare 968 01:00:02,773 --> 01:00:06,173 Speaker 2: of Preston for a number of years. I cannot understand 969 01:00:06,413 --> 01:00:11,493 Speaker 2: how Victorians could vote for the labor governments they have 970 01:00:11,853 --> 01:00:17,573 Speaker 2: had for so long. It drives me insane to what 971 01:00:18,373 --> 01:00:22,573 Speaker 2: has happened in Victoria. Why is it so why did 972 01:00:22,773 --> 01:00:27,373 Speaker 2: so many Victorians time and time again vote for an idiot? 973 01:00:28,813 --> 01:00:31,173 Speaker 3: I wish I knew the answer to that question, but 974 01:00:31,493 --> 01:00:34,853 Speaker 3: I suspect what we're seeing a lot of it is 975 01:00:34,893 --> 01:00:38,973 Speaker 3: about the vibe. And what I mean by that is, 976 01:00:40,213 --> 01:00:42,373 Speaker 3: you know, there's this idea that you can fix the 977 01:00:42,493 --> 01:00:46,493 Speaker 3: energy problem by having government run everything. Now that may 978 01:00:46,533 --> 01:00:49,013 Speaker 3: well be the case, but not under the current system. 979 01:00:49,053 --> 01:00:51,773 Speaker 3: It would have to be a new sort of technology 980 01:00:51,853 --> 01:00:54,853 Speaker 3: or some other disruption to the existing institutions. But I 981 01:00:54,893 --> 01:01:00,813 Speaker 3: think too the practice of buying votes, and particularly through 982 01:01:00,893 --> 01:01:05,573 Speaker 3: virtue signaling, has what's been attractive. The other thing, too, 983 01:01:06,533 --> 01:01:10,093 Speaker 3: is that Victoria has had one of the most ineffective 984 01:01:10,173 --> 01:01:14,613 Speaker 3: oppositions in its history. So there's a lot there that 985 01:01:14,733 --> 01:01:20,413 Speaker 3: relates to the conservative parties trying to outlabor the Labor Party, 986 01:01:21,333 --> 01:01:23,893 Speaker 3: and of course they're no good at this because it's 987 01:01:23,893 --> 01:01:25,973 Speaker 3: not what they do and their base is not interested 988 01:01:26,013 --> 01:01:29,173 Speaker 3: in that. So they move further and further away from 989 01:01:29,213 --> 01:01:32,653 Speaker 3: their base, which means the base abandons them, which, as 990 01:01:32,693 --> 01:01:35,973 Speaker 3: I say, it results in a labor government being re elected. 991 01:01:36,773 --> 01:01:40,573 Speaker 3: And I think this is the tragedy because Mensis, when 992 01:01:40,613 --> 01:01:43,773 Speaker 3: he established the Liberal Party, brought these groups together. He 993 01:01:43,893 --> 01:01:45,853 Speaker 3: was able to function in terms of what was a 994 01:01:45,893 --> 01:01:51,413 Speaker 3: broad church. But Mensi's never envisioned factions within the Liberal Party, 995 01:01:51,453 --> 01:01:54,573 Speaker 3: and now we have basically formalized factions within the Liberal 996 01:01:54,573 --> 01:01:59,213 Speaker 3: Party in Australia, which is a leftist socialist concept. It's 997 01:01:59,333 --> 01:02:05,413 Speaker 3: rather bizarre. So an ineffective opposition and a labor government 998 01:02:05,453 --> 01:02:09,133 Speaker 3: that's prepared to spend money that it doesn't have on 999 01:02:09,293 --> 01:02:12,653 Speaker 3: certain segments of the community is effectively buying those votes. 1000 01:02:13,173 --> 01:02:15,453 Speaker 3: But the reason those votes are for sale is because 1001 01:02:15,493 --> 01:02:18,813 Speaker 3: the conservative major Conservative parties have abandoned their base. 1002 01:02:19,293 --> 01:02:22,413 Speaker 2: Would you put the federal Liberal Party in the same 1003 01:02:22,413 --> 01:02:23,373 Speaker 2: bag at the moment. 1004 01:02:23,773 --> 01:02:29,413 Speaker 3: I would, But I'm hoping. No formal election date has 1005 01:02:29,453 --> 01:02:33,853 Speaker 3: been announced, so technically the campaign hasn't commenced even though 1006 01:02:33,853 --> 01:02:39,453 Speaker 3: they're campaigning, and so I'm hoping that mister Dutton has 1007 01:02:39,613 --> 01:02:43,613 Speaker 3: an arsenal prepared that's going to start hitting the ground 1008 01:02:43,773 --> 01:02:47,373 Speaker 3: as soon as the formal campaign begins. And I think 1009 01:02:47,373 --> 01:02:50,133 Speaker 3: in many ways this is a really smart strategy. And 1010 01:02:50,173 --> 01:02:52,173 Speaker 3: again this is a bit like coming back to Trump. 1011 01:02:52,213 --> 01:02:55,413 Speaker 3: Instead of supporting Trump and trusting in the person that 1012 01:02:56,293 --> 01:03:00,173 Speaker 3: is in charge and that was democratically elected, people start 1013 01:03:00,213 --> 01:03:02,933 Speaker 3: sort of getting their own ideas and complaining and you know, 1014 01:03:03,053 --> 01:03:05,773 Speaker 3: not sort of seeing what's going on. And I would 1015 01:03:05,813 --> 01:03:09,053 Speaker 3: hope that mister Dutton has this ass or prepared and 1016 01:03:09,093 --> 01:03:13,173 Speaker 3: it's going to be deployed as soon as the campaign begins, 1017 01:03:13,213 --> 01:03:15,493 Speaker 3: because one of the risks in politics particularly is an 1018 01:03:15,493 --> 01:03:19,413 Speaker 3: opposition if you expose all of your tactics and techniques 1019 01:03:19,893 --> 01:03:21,853 Speaker 3: and the approach that you're going to take too early, 1020 01:03:22,213 --> 01:03:25,213 Speaker 3: you're given the incumbent government time to prepare and to 1021 01:03:25,293 --> 01:03:28,733 Speaker 3: counter those arguments. So I'm hoping that that's the case. 1022 01:03:29,533 --> 01:03:32,493 Speaker 3: But unfortunately, in the meantime, people are sort of jumping 1023 01:03:32,853 --> 01:03:35,453 Speaker 3: to the minor parties, and the minor parties are obviously 1024 01:03:35,893 --> 01:03:40,893 Speaker 3: encouraging this because in Australia at least I think it's 1025 01:03:41,133 --> 01:03:44,293 Speaker 3: three dollars twenty five or something per primary vote if 1026 01:03:44,333 --> 01:03:46,333 Speaker 3: you get more than four percent of the primary vote 1027 01:03:46,373 --> 01:03:49,253 Speaker 3: goes to these political parties. So there's a vested interest 1028 01:03:49,293 --> 01:03:51,493 Speaker 3: in the minor parties to actually get a hold of 1029 01:03:51,533 --> 01:03:59,533 Speaker 3: that electoral reimbursement funding via the government. So look, in 1030 01:03:59,613 --> 01:04:05,093 Speaker 3: many ways, this competition, particularly on the right, is causing 1031 01:04:05,093 --> 01:04:08,053 Speaker 3: the problems that is enabling the left to keep getting 1032 01:04:08,053 --> 01:04:10,773 Speaker 3: returned into power and that's what concerns me about the 1033 01:04:10,893 --> 01:04:15,253 Speaker 3: upcoming election. And you know, look, the coalition is certainly 1034 01:04:15,293 --> 01:04:17,413 Speaker 3: moving away from its base. I don't think it's looking 1035 01:04:17,453 --> 01:04:19,173 Speaker 3: after its base and the way that it ought to. 1036 01:04:19,693 --> 01:04:21,453 Speaker 3: But I know for a fact that our economy is 1037 01:04:21,493 --> 01:04:24,693 Speaker 3: going to be much better under a coalition government than 1038 01:04:24,733 --> 01:04:27,613 Speaker 3: it currently is in what, in my view is the 1039 01:04:27,653 --> 01:04:29,173 Speaker 3: worst government Australian history. 1040 01:04:29,773 --> 01:04:34,533 Speaker 2: Speaking of the coalition, the term Uni party has caught 1041 01:04:34,573 --> 01:04:38,733 Speaker 2: on recently. I think recently. Am I right? I wasn't 1042 01:04:38,733 --> 01:04:42,013 Speaker 2: familiar with Uni party as a term. 1043 01:04:42,653 --> 01:04:45,293 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's really yeah, yes, well. 1044 01:04:45,573 --> 01:04:48,573 Speaker 2: So it's they refer to it in America and they 1045 01:04:48,613 --> 01:04:53,613 Speaker 2: refer to it here. What is the Uni party? 1046 01:04:54,493 --> 01:04:57,853 Speaker 3: The Uni party is a term that captures a concept 1047 01:04:57,893 --> 01:04:59,933 Speaker 3: that's been around for a very long time, particularly in 1048 01:05:00,013 --> 01:05:03,373 Speaker 3: the United States, and traditionally it would be shown in 1049 01:05:03,413 --> 01:05:08,333 Speaker 3: a cartoon with like a sort of monopoly style cap 1050 01:05:08,773 --> 01:05:12,453 Speaker 3: businessmen holding out two hands with the Democrats on one 1051 01:05:12,493 --> 01:05:15,733 Speaker 3: hand and the Republicans on the other hand, and so 1052 01:05:15,973 --> 01:05:20,653 Speaker 3: in effect what we're seeing in Australia. I heard it 1053 01:05:20,693 --> 01:05:23,293 Speaker 3: referred to as double haters the other day, that people 1054 01:05:23,373 --> 01:05:25,693 Speaker 3: hate both of the major parties and they're looking to 1055 01:05:25,973 --> 01:05:31,573 Speaker 3: the minority minority parties to you know, to capture their base, 1056 01:05:31,613 --> 01:05:35,573 Speaker 3: so to speak. But in effect, it's a suggestion that 1057 01:05:37,333 --> 01:05:41,373 Speaker 3: corporations or some other elites are controlling both parties, so 1058 01:05:41,413 --> 01:05:43,933 Speaker 3: it doesn't matter who you vote for, they're going to 1059 01:05:43,973 --> 01:05:46,973 Speaker 3: look after their own interests and not yours. So that 1060 01:05:47,413 --> 01:05:52,653 Speaker 3: concept in liberal democracies has been around for a very 1061 01:05:52,653 --> 01:05:55,253 Speaker 3: long time. But the idea of the UNI party is 1062 01:05:55,293 --> 01:06:00,693 Speaker 3: interesting because there's enough evidence to say that it's a thing, 1063 01:06:01,053 --> 01:06:03,573 Speaker 3: and we can look at that in terms of particularly 1064 01:06:03,573 --> 01:06:07,773 Speaker 3: around energy policy, in the focus on ideas around the climate, 1065 01:06:08,453 --> 01:06:10,973 Speaker 3: we can see that there's sort of this majority rule 1066 01:06:11,013 --> 01:06:14,133 Speaker 3: that fits in with and I don't want to be 1067 01:06:14,213 --> 01:06:16,653 Speaker 3: sound like conspiracy theorists, but you know, it fits in 1068 01:06:16,693 --> 01:06:19,413 Speaker 3: with the ideas of the World Economic Forum and the 1069 01:06:19,493 --> 01:06:22,893 Speaker 3: UN and others, particularly around the climate, and people are 1070 01:06:23,253 --> 01:06:25,573 Speaker 3: sort of thinking, well, you know, it doesn't matter who 1071 01:06:25,573 --> 01:06:28,853 Speaker 3: I vote for, they've both got the same ideas. Who's 1072 01:06:28,853 --> 01:06:31,773 Speaker 3: actually going to represent my ideas? And that's where we're 1073 01:06:31,773 --> 01:06:34,693 Speaker 3: seeing that sort of fracturing, particularly on the conservative side 1074 01:06:36,013 --> 01:06:37,773 Speaker 3: of politics. 1075 01:06:38,173 --> 01:06:41,133 Speaker 2: I have a very strong feeling that the net hero 1076 01:06:41,333 --> 01:06:45,293 Speaker 2: is going to fall apart worldwide very shortly. 1077 01:06:46,493 --> 01:06:50,013 Speaker 3: Look at it. It has to economically. So look, I mean, 1078 01:06:50,053 --> 01:06:53,253 Speaker 3: I'm not a climate scientist and I'm not interested in 1079 01:06:53,293 --> 01:06:57,493 Speaker 3: getting in those debates. But what I find really interesting 1080 01:06:57,773 --> 01:07:00,413 Speaker 3: is that if this is about reducing carbon emissions, then 1081 01:07:00,493 --> 01:07:03,213 Speaker 3: nuclear is a no brainer, you know, but that for 1082 01:07:03,293 --> 01:07:07,413 Speaker 3: some reason doesn't enter the argument because they don't want nuclear. 1083 01:07:07,933 --> 01:07:10,133 Speaker 3: So it's kind of like that. It's not like they 1084 01:07:10,173 --> 01:07:12,693 Speaker 3: want to address carbon emissions. They just want to have 1085 01:07:12,733 --> 01:07:16,013 Speaker 3: wind and solar as the dominant power source, which of 1086 01:07:16,013 --> 01:07:18,173 Speaker 3: course leads you to think, well, if you follow the money, 1087 01:07:18,213 --> 01:07:20,773 Speaker 3: where does this take me? And I agree with you 1088 01:07:20,813 --> 01:07:23,693 Speaker 3: about net zero. I mean, you've got China and India 1089 01:07:23,733 --> 01:07:27,333 Speaker 3: who don't really seem to care about this concept. Why 1090 01:07:27,853 --> 01:07:31,053 Speaker 3: should Australia and why should New Zealand be so concerned 1091 01:07:31,093 --> 01:07:34,133 Speaker 3: about their outputs when it's not going to make a 1092 01:07:34,173 --> 01:07:37,053 Speaker 3: link of difference? I think too. Trump is going to 1093 01:07:37,133 --> 01:07:41,133 Speaker 3: undo a lot of that as well. But look, in effect, 1094 01:07:41,493 --> 01:07:44,973 Speaker 3: we just can't afford to sort of take this ideal view, 1095 01:07:45,413 --> 01:07:49,013 Speaker 3: and if it was actually about reducing carbon emissions, then 1096 01:07:49,133 --> 01:07:50,453 Speaker 3: nuclear should be front and center. 1097 01:07:51,333 --> 01:07:56,293 Speaker 2: Except those who will object to any downsizing, shall we say, 1098 01:07:57,533 --> 01:08:01,653 Speaker 2: are still being taught in schools that their life depends 1099 01:08:01,693 --> 01:08:05,813 Speaker 2: on and the planet depends on CO two being eliminated. 1100 01:08:06,333 --> 01:08:07,933 Speaker 3: How this is sorry? 1101 01:08:08,653 --> 01:08:13,493 Speaker 2: How long will it take for that to be corrected? 1102 01:08:13,533 --> 01:08:15,613 Speaker 2: Do you think? I mean, first of all, he's got 1103 01:08:15,653 --> 01:08:20,213 Speaker 2: to persuade the teaching staff and the unions that they're 1104 01:08:20,213 --> 01:08:23,853 Speaker 2: barking up the wrong tree, and that's very unlikely. 1105 01:08:25,013 --> 01:08:27,853 Speaker 3: The thing that I find problematic is that a liberal 1106 01:08:27,973 --> 01:08:32,613 Speaker 3: education is helping citizens to think for themselves, and we're 1107 01:08:32,613 --> 01:08:37,373 Speaker 3: not experiencing a liberal education. We're experiencing in doctrination and 1108 01:08:37,373 --> 01:08:39,933 Speaker 3: that's pretty clear. We're even seeing at universities as you 1109 01:08:40,013 --> 01:08:46,653 Speaker 3: mentioned Macquarie and the Law School just previously. So again, 1110 01:08:46,853 --> 01:08:52,053 Speaker 3: I think what we're seeing is the institutions that are exhausted. 1111 01:08:52,173 --> 01:08:56,413 Speaker 3: They're no longer achieving what they were established to achieve. 1112 01:08:57,253 --> 01:09:00,373 Speaker 3: If you look at public education in New South Wales 1113 01:09:00,373 --> 01:09:03,933 Speaker 3: in particular, the Henry Parks was one of the champions 1114 01:09:03,973 --> 01:09:08,333 Speaker 3: of primary public education in Australia because of the bush rangers, 1115 01:09:08,333 --> 01:09:11,573 Speaker 3: who were living without the moral influences they needed, thought 1116 01:09:11,573 --> 01:09:15,213 Speaker 3: they could just go off and robin kill people whenever 1117 01:09:15,253 --> 01:09:17,253 Speaker 3: they felt like it. So you know, we've kind of 1118 01:09:17,293 --> 01:09:20,933 Speaker 3: gone from this establishing a moral base, which is important 1119 01:09:21,453 --> 01:09:24,253 Speaker 3: in our youth, in particular to now actually telling them 1120 01:09:24,293 --> 01:09:26,853 Speaker 3: what to think, which is the complete opposite of the 1121 01:09:26,893 --> 01:09:30,973 Speaker 3: purpose of education. So I think it's going to take 1122 01:09:31,013 --> 01:09:34,853 Speaker 3: a disruption. It's certainly starting with Donald Trump. Whether that 1123 01:09:34,933 --> 01:09:38,933 Speaker 3: infiltrates in Australia, I think we'll see that if we 1124 01:09:38,973 --> 01:09:42,293 Speaker 3: do have a coalition government return to power, if not 1125 01:09:42,573 --> 01:09:45,533 Speaker 3: another three years of labor, it'll take longer because I 1126 01:09:45,573 --> 01:09:49,813 Speaker 3: think it'll embed more. Having said that, the market always 1127 01:09:50,453 --> 01:09:53,813 Speaker 3: swings things around, because eventually we're going to have people 1128 01:09:53,853 --> 01:09:58,253 Speaker 3: graduating from universities who've had indoctrination rather than education. They're 1129 01:09:58,293 --> 01:10:00,053 Speaker 3: not going to have the skills that they need to 1130 01:10:00,093 --> 01:10:02,653 Speaker 3: function in industry. Industry is going to need to get 1131 01:10:02,693 --> 01:10:05,773 Speaker 3: those skills from somewhere else, which means those people with 1132 01:10:05,893 --> 01:10:11,253 Speaker 3: their sort of woke education or indoctrination are not going 1133 01:10:11,333 --> 01:10:13,693 Speaker 3: to be in the not going to get the jobs 1134 01:10:13,693 --> 01:10:16,453 Speaker 3: that they need to continue their virtue signaling or whatever. 1135 01:10:17,093 --> 01:10:19,293 Speaker 3: And it's going to turn around. Now, that's an imperfect 1136 01:10:19,333 --> 01:10:24,133 Speaker 3: way of doing things, but liberal democracies are imperfect because 1137 01:10:24,613 --> 01:10:29,413 Speaker 3: often our economic rights and our political rights sort of 1138 01:10:29,413 --> 01:10:31,693 Speaker 3: butt up against each other, and we have to satisfy 1139 01:10:31,733 --> 01:10:34,613 Speaker 3: us as opposed to satisfy all of those different needs. 1140 01:10:35,453 --> 01:10:39,013 Speaker 3: But again, I think eventually, even with net zero all 1141 01:10:39,013 --> 01:10:41,093 Speaker 3: these other things, it's going to have to correct itself 1142 01:10:41,253 --> 01:10:45,013 Speaker 3: soon otherwise we're not going to be able to afford 1143 01:10:45,053 --> 01:10:46,053 Speaker 3: to keep going as we are. 1144 01:10:46,933 --> 01:10:49,653 Speaker 2: And I think, finally, i'd like your opinion because you 1145 01:10:50,173 --> 01:10:53,053 Speaker 2: have a military background. I saw a headline over the 1146 01:10:53,093 --> 01:10:59,773 Speaker 2: weekend in Australia with regard to an appeal for the 1147 01:10:59,813 --> 01:11:05,893 Speaker 2: ANZAC forces to come together and establish themselves much more solidly. 1148 01:11:06,493 --> 01:11:09,333 Speaker 3: What say you used to do that? When I was 1149 01:11:09,333 --> 01:11:13,093 Speaker 3: at the First Field Regiment in Brisbane, were actually had 1150 01:11:13,133 --> 01:11:15,973 Speaker 3: a New Zealand Gun detachment. They came and worked with us. 1151 01:11:17,253 --> 01:11:22,293 Speaker 3: It was fantastic. Look they shared history there is remarkable. 1152 01:11:22,693 --> 01:11:28,253 Speaker 3: It's really important. I agree that we should continue to 1153 01:11:28,413 --> 01:11:31,373 Speaker 3: and strengthen those ties. And continue to strengthen those ties. 1154 01:11:32,213 --> 01:11:36,373 Speaker 3: I think it's interesting. You know, I'm sort of the 1155 01:11:36,613 --> 01:11:40,133 Speaker 3: chapter representative of the RSL here in my small village 1156 01:11:40,133 --> 01:11:44,573 Speaker 3: of Gunning in regional New South Wales, and despite the 1157 01:11:44,573 --> 01:11:47,093 Speaker 3: population only being some eight hundred people, we get at 1158 01:11:47,173 --> 01:11:50,773 Speaker 3: least five hundred people turning up to our ANZAC day service. 1159 01:11:50,853 --> 01:11:53,013 Speaker 3: Is about one hundred in the morning dawn service and 1160 01:11:53,053 --> 01:11:56,973 Speaker 3: at eleven am we get five hundred plus, so and 1161 01:11:57,173 --> 01:12:01,893 Speaker 3: the skill children involved, it's really important. I don't think 1162 01:12:01,893 --> 01:12:05,213 Speaker 3: that's going to go away anytime soon from our sort 1163 01:12:05,213 --> 01:12:07,813 Speaker 3: of shared history in that space. But I think the 1164 01:12:07,853 --> 01:12:11,413 Speaker 3: biggest problem is not so much the relationship, but it's 1165 01:12:11,493 --> 01:12:15,613 Speaker 3: the lack of the lack of spending on defense. We 1166 01:12:15,653 --> 01:12:21,213 Speaker 3: saw recently the Chinese navy off Sydney, you know, creating 1167 01:12:21,253 --> 01:12:23,853 Speaker 3: all sorts of issues for both Australia and New Zealand, 1168 01:12:24,133 --> 01:12:27,333 Speaker 3: and I think in many ways our response was completely inadequate. 1169 01:12:27,853 --> 01:12:32,133 Speaker 3: So we've been found wanting in that regard. Trump's calling 1170 01:12:32,173 --> 01:12:36,133 Speaker 3: out other countries. Look even Canada. Canada to remain a 1171 01:12:36,173 --> 01:12:38,973 Speaker 3: member of NATO needs to spend at least two percent 1172 01:12:39,013 --> 01:12:42,573 Speaker 3: of its GDP on defense, and it's spending less than that. 1173 01:12:42,813 --> 01:12:46,053 Speaker 3: I think New Zealand's in a similar boat. Australia is 1174 01:12:46,133 --> 01:12:49,573 Speaker 3: just over two percent, but it's clearly not enough. So 1175 01:12:49,693 --> 01:12:54,813 Speaker 3: this whole sort of focus on defense, which you know, 1176 01:12:54,893 --> 01:12:57,653 Speaker 3: traditionally we've had that problem. Even in the Second World War, 1177 01:12:57,653 --> 01:13:00,493 Speaker 3: Australia wasn't capable of defending itself. I mean, you know, 1178 01:13:00,573 --> 01:13:04,373 Speaker 3: people forget that without the Americans, Australia would have been invaded. 1179 01:13:04,493 --> 01:13:06,533 Speaker 3: You know, whether they were here for them or ask 1180 01:13:06,813 --> 01:13:07,733 Speaker 3: it really doesn't matter. 1181 01:13:07,773 --> 01:13:10,453 Speaker 2: But did they get taught that in school these days? 1182 01:13:10,813 --> 01:13:14,293 Speaker 3: No, no, they don't. And it's something I really pick 1183 01:13:14,413 --> 01:13:15,853 Speaker 3: up on all the time because it was you know, 1184 01:13:15,853 --> 01:13:20,373 Speaker 3: we're talking tens of thousands of Americans who died in 1185 01:13:20,413 --> 01:13:26,013 Speaker 3: effect in defense of Australia, and you know that that 1186 01:13:26,093 --> 01:13:29,733 Speaker 3: sort of shared history between US and the US is 1187 01:13:31,333 --> 01:13:34,093 Speaker 3: really important, but it's just not it's not emphasized. It's 1188 01:13:34,093 --> 01:13:37,453 Speaker 3: sort of like this idea that we're no longer culturally similar. 1189 01:13:39,133 --> 01:13:41,933 Speaker 3: The two countries are, you know, these separate entities and 1190 01:13:42,693 --> 01:13:44,613 Speaker 3: that's the end of it. We ought to be independent, 1191 01:13:44,653 --> 01:13:50,813 Speaker 3: but we don't have that capacity. It's almost like we're 1192 01:13:50,813 --> 01:13:54,213 Speaker 3: in that phase of appeasement before the Second World War, 1193 01:13:54,733 --> 01:13:58,293 Speaker 3: where appeasing one's enemies was enough and you'd be fine, 1194 01:13:58,333 --> 01:14:00,453 Speaker 3: and of course that led to the disaster of the 1195 01:14:00,453 --> 01:14:04,653 Speaker 3: Second World War. Whereas I think if we had much 1196 01:14:04,693 --> 01:14:09,013 Speaker 3: more credible capabilities in terms of defense, which is the 1197 01:14:09,053 --> 01:14:13,373 Speaker 3: whole idea of defense in itself, it's the deterrent capability 1198 01:14:13,413 --> 01:14:17,373 Speaker 3: as opposed to its offensive capability and we're just not 1199 01:14:17,453 --> 01:14:20,653 Speaker 3: building that. And again too, we see even in recruiting, 1200 01:14:20,973 --> 01:14:23,533 Speaker 3: people are just not interested in their own countries. They've 1201 01:14:23,573 --> 01:14:26,533 Speaker 3: been sort of taught that they're global citizens and that, 1202 01:14:27,293 --> 01:14:30,053 Speaker 3: you know, the Nation States are old fashioned. I mean, 1203 01:14:30,093 --> 01:14:32,253 Speaker 3: all of this is late nineteen ninety stuff, which is 1204 01:14:32,613 --> 01:14:36,453 Speaker 3: part and parcel of Fukiyama that's been discredited. But in 1205 01:14:36,493 --> 01:14:39,773 Speaker 3: many ways, I think there's we've kind of got this 1206 01:14:39,853 --> 01:14:44,133 Speaker 3: two speed cultural understanding of our past. We've got some 1207 01:14:44,253 --> 01:14:49,093 Speaker 3: who are you know, definitely support the memory of the ANZACs, 1208 01:14:49,933 --> 01:14:51,933 Speaker 3: but then we have these others who think we don't 1209 01:14:51,973 --> 01:14:55,333 Speaker 3: need the US as an ally and they just simply 1210 01:14:55,373 --> 01:14:59,413 Speaker 3: forget that the role that the Americans played in Australia's defense. 1211 01:14:59,493 --> 01:15:03,173 Speaker 2: And that's wrong. Michael has been an absolute pleasure. I've 1212 01:15:03,213 --> 01:15:06,773 Speaker 2: got to say that it's so good to be able 1213 01:15:06,813 --> 01:15:10,413 Speaker 2: to just roll from one topic to another and back again. 1214 01:15:10,453 --> 01:15:14,333 Speaker 2: On occasions. It's been most informative, and I hope that 1215 01:15:14,373 --> 01:15:16,733 Speaker 2: we will get a chance to do it again. Maybe 1216 01:15:16,773 --> 01:15:22,333 Speaker 2: after July when you when you have departed from the 1217 01:15:22,493 --> 01:15:26,933 Speaker 2: University of Canberra, we can get together again and discuss 1218 01:15:26,933 --> 01:15:29,773 Speaker 2: some things. Because you can be certain of one thing 1219 01:15:29,813 --> 01:15:32,693 Speaker 2: we will never run out of topics to talk about. 1220 01:15:33,053 --> 01:15:36,653 Speaker 3: Absolutely, Thanks late, it's been a pleasure. Lat and Smith. 1221 01:15:37,333 --> 01:15:41,773 Speaker 2: Leverrix is an antihistamine made in Switzerland to the highest quality. 1222 01:15:41,973 --> 01:15:45,853 Speaker 2: Leverix relieves hay fever and skin allergies or itchy skin. 1223 01:15:46,333 --> 01:15:50,613 Speaker 2: It's a dual action antihistamine and has a unique nasal 1224 01:15:50,853 --> 01:15:55,493 Speaker 2: decongested action. It's fast acting for fast relief, and it 1225 01:15:55,533 --> 01:15:58,653 Speaker 2: works in under an hour and lasts for over twenty 1226 01:15:58,693 --> 01:16:02,493 Speaker 2: four hours. Leverrix is a tiny tablet that unblocks the nose, 1227 01:16:02,813 --> 01:16:06,693 Speaker 2: deals with itchy eyes, and stops sneezing. Leverx is an 1228 01:16:06,733 --> 01:16:11,093 Speaker 2: antihistamine made in Switzerland to the highest quality. So next 1229 01:16:11,093 --> 01:16:14,653 Speaker 2: time you're in need of an effective antihistamine, call into 1230 01:16:14,693 --> 01:16:18,413 Speaker 2: the pharmacy and ask for Leverix l e v r 1231 01:16:19,173 --> 01:16:22,853 Speaker 2: X Leverix and always read the label, take as directed 1232 01:16:23,093 --> 01:16:27,453 Speaker 2: and if symptoms persist, see your health professional. Farmer Broker Auckland. 1233 01:16:28,693 --> 01:16:31,653 Speaker 2: They enter the mail room for two seventy six and 1234 01:16:31,733 --> 01:16:36,013 Speaker 2: missus producer. It's interesting that Muriel Newman and Rodney Hyde 1235 01:16:36,053 --> 01:16:41,933 Speaker 2: both paul commentaries of such enthusiasm that it's extraordinary. Really, 1236 01:16:42,653 --> 01:16:43,613 Speaker 2: I don't think so. Latent. 1237 01:16:43,653 --> 01:16:48,173 Speaker 4: They're both they're both thinkers, and they're both based in 1238 01:16:48,213 --> 01:16:50,493 Speaker 4: New Zealand, which often people. 1239 01:16:50,333 --> 01:16:53,373 Speaker 2: Like, well, if you based in New Zealand, you probably 1240 01:16:53,413 --> 01:16:56,613 Speaker 2: have a better idea than most of what exactly what's 1241 01:16:56,693 --> 01:17:01,093 Speaker 2: going on. Let me kick off a great chat from 1242 01:17:01,173 --> 01:17:04,373 Speaker 2: Murray great chat with Rodney Hyde, and it brought back 1243 01:17:04,413 --> 01:17:07,813 Speaker 2: memories of Rodney Hyde MP. I was a new stringer, 1244 01:17:08,453 --> 01:17:11,293 Speaker 2: a cameraman for one of the two main networks, and 1245 01:17:11,493 --> 01:17:15,053 Speaker 2: was on assignment when I interviewed Rodney and from memory 1246 01:17:15,173 --> 01:17:17,813 Speaker 2: Richard Prebble. We shared a car. We shared a car 1247 01:17:17,933 --> 01:17:21,893 Speaker 2: ride across town, and I recall this Rodney had an 1248 01:17:21,933 --> 01:17:27,653 Speaker 2: antipathy toward naive young Christians with puritanical views. There was 1249 01:17:27,693 --> 01:17:31,413 Speaker 2: a degree of snorting and stickering. The reason this stuck 1250 01:17:31,453 --> 01:17:34,493 Speaker 2: with me is that I had recently become a Christian 1251 01:17:34,973 --> 01:17:39,213 Speaker 2: and it felt quite uncomfortable. Now I say this, he says, 1252 01:17:39,333 --> 01:17:42,973 Speaker 2: not to deride or humiliate Rodney, but as an ironic 1253 01:17:43,093 --> 01:17:47,893 Speaker 2: anecdote on hypocrisy and shallow beliefs. I too, once thought 1254 01:17:47,933 --> 01:17:51,813 Speaker 2: of Patricia Bartbert as a pathetic prude without any introspection. 1255 01:17:52,373 --> 01:17:55,773 Speaker 2: So I understand the hypocrisy of my own form of views, 1256 01:17:56,053 --> 01:17:58,573 Speaker 2: and when I think about it, it's a personal failing 1257 01:17:58,693 --> 01:18:03,173 Speaker 2: all of us find impossible to eradicate. I loved the 1258 01:18:03,213 --> 01:18:06,573 Speaker 2: honesty of Rodney's stories and views. You really did yourself 1259 01:18:06,573 --> 01:18:11,213 Speaker 2: proud with this extraordinary interview. Now enclosing, our extended family 1260 01:18:11,453 --> 01:18:14,773 Speaker 2: lost a thirty three year old in perfect health within 1261 01:18:14,813 --> 01:18:19,333 Speaker 2: a few days of the infamous jab. The clincher for 1262 01:18:19,453 --> 01:18:25,293 Speaker 2: me of this being medicinal misadventure was evidenced by the 1263 01:18:25,333 --> 01:18:30,533 Speaker 2: cover up from start to finish. This quote couldn't possibly 1264 01:18:30,573 --> 01:18:36,293 Speaker 2: be vaccine related. No coronial inquiry, no acknowledgment, just a 1265 01:18:36,333 --> 01:18:40,813 Speaker 2: deafening and defiant silence. I'll leave it there, despite my 1266 01:18:41,053 --> 01:18:44,133 Speaker 2: fury at what our leaders did to my former country. 1267 01:18:44,493 --> 01:18:49,813 Speaker 2: God bless from Murray, who is now living in Queensland Layton. 1268 01:18:49,893 --> 01:18:54,893 Speaker 4: That's very sad, Wayne says. I'm sorry, Wayne, I've just 1269 01:18:55,093 --> 01:18:57,293 Speaker 4: edited you a little bit because it's so such a 1270 01:18:57,293 --> 01:19:00,493 Speaker 4: good letter, but so long, he says, I'm so thrilled 1271 01:19:00,533 --> 01:19:03,893 Speaker 4: to have heard Rodney Hyde's discussion on podcast two seventy five. 1272 01:19:04,413 --> 01:19:07,293 Speaker 4: Over the years, I've listened to so many wonderful discussions, 1273 01:19:07,333 --> 01:19:10,853 Speaker 4: but this one and killer has compelled me to write 1274 01:19:11,133 --> 01:19:13,973 Speaker 4: for only the second time to try and express the 1275 01:19:14,053 --> 01:19:18,373 Speaker 4: joy it engendered it hearing such common sense. The enlightening 1276 01:19:18,413 --> 01:19:22,413 Speaker 4: exposure of the perverted so called sex education was of 1277 01:19:22,453 --> 01:19:27,533 Speaker 4: course greatly disturbing. Rodney's statement that this is a hill 1278 01:19:27,613 --> 01:19:30,053 Speaker 4: we need to die on is indeed a call to 1279 01:19:30,173 --> 01:19:32,933 Speaker 4: battle that I have been wanting to answer. I have 1280 01:19:33,173 --> 01:19:36,973 Speaker 4: contacted let kids be kids as a start. We must 1281 01:19:37,013 --> 01:19:40,853 Speaker 4: all do what we can to eliminate this generational corruption 1282 01:19:40,973 --> 01:19:46,533 Speaker 4: of our precious children and grandchildren. Rodney's personal testimony of 1283 01:19:46,573 --> 01:19:50,493 Speaker 4: becoming a follower of Jesus for just one year was spellbinding. 1284 01:19:51,173 --> 01:19:55,213 Speaker 4: It follows on from President Trump's statement that America must 1285 01:19:55,253 --> 01:19:59,733 Speaker 4: return to its Christian founding roots. Rodney spoke so clearly 1286 01:19:59,933 --> 01:20:02,413 Speaker 4: and well for someone only a Christian for such a 1287 01:20:02,453 --> 01:20:06,773 Speaker 4: short time. I'm also aware of the many liberating historical 1288 01:20:06,853 --> 01:20:10,773 Speaker 4: stories of the local tribal ma. They welcomed the treaty 1289 01:20:10,893 --> 01:20:14,373 Speaker 4: and rule of law, oftened by the written Westminster system 1290 01:20:14,413 --> 01:20:19,653 Speaker 4: that gave them stability, not the infinitely variable Teacunger. I'm 1291 01:20:19,653 --> 01:20:22,733 Speaker 4: also mindful of my grandparents coming to New Zealand from 1292 01:20:22,813 --> 01:20:26,453 Speaker 4: Scotland and Ireland over one hundred years ago to escape 1293 01:20:26,453 --> 01:20:30,493 Speaker 4: the class system and to enjoy the galitarian society. Rodney 1294 01:20:30,573 --> 01:20:35,213 Speaker 4: so eloquently described, My grandparents and parents worked hard to 1295 01:20:35,293 --> 01:20:38,053 Speaker 4: make their way in life, and that is a fine 1296 01:20:38,093 --> 01:20:41,253 Speaker 4: example to me. It grieves me to see that to 1297 01:20:41,333 --> 01:20:45,373 Speaker 4: Party MARII and Green's creating a false narrative of class 1298 01:20:45,373 --> 01:20:48,653 Speaker 4: systems when the opposite color blind society I grew up 1299 01:20:48,653 --> 01:20:51,773 Speaker 4: and was such a foundational part of all of our lives. 1300 01:20:53,093 --> 01:20:56,093 Speaker 2: I found a conversation with Rodney Hyde very interesting. Rights 1301 01:20:56,453 --> 01:21:00,933 Speaker 2: Chris I particularly liked the discussion about the Judeo Christian 1302 01:21:00,973 --> 01:21:04,813 Speaker 2: ethic at its place in Western society. Also of interest 1303 01:21:04,813 --> 01:21:07,933 Speaker 2: to me was Rodney's conversion to Christianity. He showed that 1304 01:21:07,973 --> 01:21:12,053 Speaker 2: he under stands Christianity well. At one stage, Layton said 1305 01:21:13,053 --> 01:21:18,333 Speaker 2: that Jesus didn't figure in Judaism. Rodney said the Old 1306 01:21:18,373 --> 01:21:23,053 Speaker 2: Testament recognized that the Messiah was coming. The belief in 1307 01:21:23,093 --> 01:21:28,453 Speaker 2: a Messiah was at the heart of Judaism. However, as 1308 01:21:28,533 --> 01:21:33,213 Speaker 2: Rodney said, the Jews didn't recognize him. The connection between 1309 01:21:33,253 --> 01:21:37,493 Speaker 2: the two religions is Jesus, who said that I have 1310 01:21:37,613 --> 01:21:40,773 Speaker 2: not come to abolish the law that is the Jewish 1311 01:21:40,853 --> 01:21:45,093 Speaker 2: law or the prophets. I came to fulfill them. Anybody 1312 01:21:45,133 --> 01:21:49,173 Speaker 2: wants to know Matthew Chapter five, verse seventeen. Christ was 1313 01:21:49,213 --> 01:21:51,573 Speaker 2: a Jew but not a Christian. However, he was the 1314 01:21:51,573 --> 01:21:54,653 Speaker 2: founder of the Christian religion. His followers were Jews who 1315 01:21:54,653 --> 01:21:58,493 Speaker 2: became the first Christians. The Catholic Church recognizes that it 1316 01:21:58,733 --> 01:22:03,693 Speaker 2: has its roots in Judaism, as wishes christ As. We 1317 01:22:03,813 --> 01:22:06,093 Speaker 2: got a lot of feedback, a lot of feedback on 1318 01:22:06,693 --> 01:22:09,173 Speaker 2: last week with Rodney. It's roll again. 1319 01:22:09,653 --> 01:22:14,333 Speaker 4: Laden Pete says, thanks for last week's anonymous correspondent letter, 1320 01:22:14,413 --> 01:22:17,493 Speaker 4: withheld until you could read it. The letter was well 1321 01:22:17,533 --> 01:22:20,653 Speaker 4: worth the weight, if only for the clear and easily 1322 01:22:20,693 --> 01:22:24,893 Speaker 4: supported statement that Mari and Pete says. I see it 1323 01:22:25,053 --> 01:22:29,453 Speaker 4: as primarily the treatist activists and government pandering to those 1324 01:22:29,493 --> 01:22:33,693 Speaker 4: activists are holding the country back economically. The bloke and 1325 01:22:33,733 --> 01:22:36,493 Speaker 4: his wife along the street are fine, as are their children. 1326 01:22:36,733 --> 01:22:39,333 Speaker 4: They are doing their bet. I do not wish to 1327 01:22:39,333 --> 01:22:42,293 Speaker 4: see us move to an ethno state riven by ethnic 1328 01:22:42,373 --> 01:22:45,213 Speaker 4: and interethnic division. I do not see a need for 1329 01:22:45,293 --> 01:22:49,613 Speaker 4: Mari seats in Parliament or Mari wards in local body elections. 1330 01:22:50,133 --> 01:22:53,973 Speaker 4: The division is not helpful, nor the forced spirituality and 1331 01:22:54,053 --> 01:22:57,333 Speaker 4: suggestion that those with some Mari DNA know more about 1332 01:22:57,373 --> 01:23:01,853 Speaker 4: the water, the environment and families than anyone else. The 1333 01:23:01,933 --> 01:23:06,693 Speaker 4: issue extends to government failure to attend to sorting out 1334 01:23:06,733 --> 01:23:10,373 Speaker 4: the courts and the White Tangi Tribunal. To remind both 1335 01:23:10,413 --> 01:23:15,693 Speaker 4: that Parliament is sovereign. Enacting necessary legislation to resolve the 1336 01:23:15,773 --> 01:23:21,053 Speaker 4: coast water and the currently oversized public service via the 1337 01:23:21,053 --> 01:23:27,133 Speaker 4: Treatyised Public Services Act twenty twenty is essential and required smartly, 1338 01:23:27,773 --> 01:23:30,013 Speaker 4: they can keep up the good work. That's from Pete. 1339 01:23:30,293 --> 01:23:33,293 Speaker 2: Pete's appreciated, thank you and glad you are. Glad you're 1340 01:23:33,373 --> 01:23:38,373 Speaker 2: enjoying so from Bronwin. I'm behind scheduled, have just listened 1341 01:23:38,413 --> 01:23:42,093 Speaker 2: to James Raguski and looking forward to rolling onto Rodney's 1342 01:23:42,093 --> 01:23:45,573 Speaker 2: episode next. Isn't James amazing? I've heard him speak about 1343 01:23:45,573 --> 01:23:49,053 Speaker 2: the Wow before, but he has so much more to offer. 1344 01:23:49,213 --> 01:23:51,253 Speaker 2: I do hope that you'll have him on again sometime. 1345 01:23:51,893 --> 01:23:55,453 Speaker 2: I'll be listening a second time and looking up the links. 1346 01:23:55,493 --> 01:23:58,813 Speaker 2: He provided kind regards, Brodwin. And then about four hours 1347 01:23:58,853 --> 01:24:01,133 Speaker 2: later I got the following Please may I add a 1348 01:24:01,173 --> 01:24:04,573 Speaker 2: PostScript to my earlier email. I have now listened to 1349 01:24:04,613 --> 01:24:08,093 Speaker 2: the following episode, also excellent with Rodney. 1350 01:24:08,133 --> 01:24:08,293 Speaker 3: Huh. 1351 01:24:09,013 --> 01:24:12,453 Speaker 2: And I'm grateful to the doctor who wrote in explaining 1352 01:24:12,493 --> 01:24:16,973 Speaker 2: the impossibility of a nasal PCR test breaking the barrier 1353 01:24:17,013 --> 01:24:20,413 Speaker 2: protecting the brain. I've always been skeptical of this claim 1354 01:24:20,733 --> 01:24:24,173 Speaker 2: that many people make, and it's very good to have 1355 01:24:24,293 --> 01:24:28,653 Speaker 2: that explained. Thank you, Bronwan. And it's the first time 1356 01:24:28,653 --> 01:24:30,333 Speaker 2: I've ever had a follow up so quickly. 1357 01:24:31,253 --> 01:24:34,653 Speaker 4: Leyton Jin says, I sensed something different about Rodney Hyde. 1358 01:24:34,693 --> 01:24:37,733 Speaker 4: I wanted to confirm my suspicions, so I went back 1359 01:24:37,773 --> 01:24:41,333 Speaker 4: to listen to podcast one eighty eight, where you interviewed 1360 01:24:41,373 --> 01:24:45,013 Speaker 4: him almost exactly two years ago. I can confirm there 1361 01:24:45,093 --> 01:24:48,173 Speaker 4: is definitely a subtle but detectable change in the Rodney 1362 01:24:48,213 --> 01:24:52,613 Speaker 4: Hide of today. He exhibited a certain depth and seriousness 1363 01:24:52,653 --> 01:24:55,413 Speaker 4: in the content of his dialogue which I've never heard 1364 01:24:55,413 --> 01:24:58,133 Speaker 4: in the past from him. The clincher for me was 1365 01:24:58,173 --> 01:25:00,413 Speaker 4: when he said he used to think of his children 1366 01:25:00,653 --> 01:25:04,013 Speaker 4: as clever animals and his marriage as a mere agreement, 1367 01:25:04,573 --> 01:25:07,733 Speaker 4: but now he views his children as gifts from God 1368 01:25:07,893 --> 01:25:12,933 Speaker 4: and can considers his marriage sacred. That speech could only 1369 01:25:12,973 --> 01:25:16,933 Speaker 4: come from a person with new conviction. His involvement in 1370 01:25:17,053 --> 01:25:21,733 Speaker 4: let Kids be Kids proves as convictions Let kids be 1371 01:25:21,893 --> 01:25:24,013 Speaker 4: kids is a good way for parents to realize they 1372 01:25:24,013 --> 01:25:27,213 Speaker 4: are not alone in wanting to protect kids from destructive 1373 01:25:27,333 --> 01:25:32,333 Speaker 4: gender and sexual ideologies. Family firsts Bob McCroskey warned us 1374 01:25:32,373 --> 01:25:35,453 Speaker 4: three years ago about the Ministry of Education's wicked and 1375 01:25:35,573 --> 01:25:41,893 Speaker 4: insidious Relationships and Sexuality education, which targets primary age kids 1376 01:25:41,893 --> 01:25:48,653 Speaker 4: with confusing and dangerous idea viruses such as sex changes, pronouns, transgenderism, 1377 01:25:48,813 --> 01:25:53,853 Speaker 4: and other evil gender ideologies. Doctor Muriel Newman recently warned 1378 01:25:53,853 --> 01:25:57,253 Speaker 4: that while National is making good progress on some issues, 1379 01:25:57,653 --> 01:26:01,013 Speaker 4: they are making almost no progress on many of those 1380 01:26:01,333 --> 01:26:06,213 Speaker 4: other issues that motivated New Zealanders to vote for change. 1381 01:26:06,293 --> 01:26:10,493 Speaker 4: In other words, National is not eliminating woke the title 1382 01:26:10,533 --> 01:26:14,733 Speaker 4: of her article. This is in stark contrast to Donald Trump, 1383 01:26:14,733 --> 01:26:18,613 Speaker 4: who's doing everything in his power to eliminate woke. Muriel 1384 01:26:18,653 --> 01:26:21,733 Speaker 4: Newman suggests that National would be wise to pick up 1385 01:26:21,733 --> 01:26:27,253 Speaker 4: on Winston Peter's Public Service Amendment bill to remove diversity, 1386 01:26:27,373 --> 01:26:31,453 Speaker 4: equity and inclusion regulations from the public service. I agree 1387 01:26:31,493 --> 01:26:35,253 Speaker 4: with her. Either Luxeon kills woke or woke will kill 1388 01:26:35,293 --> 01:26:40,133 Speaker 4: his political ambition. Wake the heck up, Luxom. That's from Jimmy. 1389 01:26:40,213 --> 01:26:43,573 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, I'll double down on that. Don't miss what 1390 01:26:43,773 --> 01:26:47,893 Speaker 2: comes after the mail room in this podcast. Finally from 1391 01:26:47,933 --> 01:26:51,133 Speaker 2: me in twenty seventeen, I knew that New Zealand was 1392 01:26:51,133 --> 01:26:54,293 Speaker 2: in trouble. One of the first announcements was about banning 1393 01:26:54,373 --> 01:26:58,093 Speaker 2: single use plastic bags. Not only would we be banned 1394 01:26:58,133 --> 01:27:00,613 Speaker 2: from using them, but the government was going to control 1395 01:27:00,693 --> 01:27:05,893 Speaker 2: us by banning their production. The message was clear, New 1396 01:27:05,973 --> 01:27:08,853 Speaker 2: Zealanders are stupid and you need us to tell you 1397 01:27:09,093 --> 01:27:13,133 Speaker 2: what to do each day. Along came COVID and with 1398 01:27:13,213 --> 01:27:17,333 Speaker 2: it vaccine mandates and rules around contact that were at 1399 01:27:17,413 --> 01:27:22,453 Speaker 2: best supposedly designed to save lives, at worst utterly in humane. 1400 01:27:23,253 --> 01:27:26,453 Speaker 2: I began to wonder when the poster of regulation haircuts 1401 01:27:26,613 --> 01:27:29,293 Speaker 2: used in North Korea was going to become mandatory in 1402 01:27:29,413 --> 01:27:34,013 Speaker 2: the workplace. Fortunately, the Empress of that era was finally 1403 01:27:34,053 --> 01:27:38,293 Speaker 2: found to have no clothes and she resigned, with many 1404 01:27:38,293 --> 01:27:41,253 Speaker 2: of us hoping that we would never see her or 1405 01:27:41,293 --> 01:27:45,653 Speaker 2: her colleagues ever again. One bad pole for National has 1406 01:27:45,693 --> 01:27:49,613 Speaker 2: me seriously doubting the intellectual capacity of my fellow New Zealanders, 1407 01:27:49,613 --> 01:27:55,413 Speaker 2: particularly the MSM mainstream medium. Almost hourly they're foaming at 1408 01:27:55,413 --> 01:27:58,173 Speaker 2: the mouth, bursting to tell us that Luxon will be rolled, 1409 01:27:58,213 --> 01:28:02,453 Speaker 2: while Chippy continues to bark at every parsing opportunity to 1410 01:28:02,533 --> 01:28:06,973 Speaker 2: tell the party deluded that he is back and poised 1411 01:28:07,013 --> 01:28:10,733 Speaker 2: to win in twenty twenty six. Do I think Chris 1412 01:28:10,773 --> 01:28:15,333 Speaker 2: Luxon is an inspirational prime Minister. No, but he's still 1413 01:28:15,453 --> 01:28:19,173 Speaker 2: better than past notable disasters like Adern, Hipkins and Shipley 1414 01:28:19,413 --> 01:28:23,813 Speaker 2: in that order. Luxon is a businessman who is used 1415 01:28:23,813 --> 01:28:27,693 Speaker 2: to leading working groups of largely like minded individuals who 1416 01:28:27,693 --> 01:28:30,653 Speaker 2: are focused on a common goal that keeps the wheels 1417 01:28:30,653 --> 01:28:33,413 Speaker 2: of commerce turning, which is what we need in our 1418 01:28:33,453 --> 01:28:36,573 Speaker 2: country's economic engine room right now as we navigate the 1419 01:28:36,653 --> 01:28:41,093 Speaker 2: mess that addourns, Hipkins and Robertson and their merry band 1420 01:28:41,133 --> 01:28:45,773 Speaker 2: of fiscal duncers and idea logs left behind them. Chris 1421 01:28:45,853 --> 01:28:49,533 Speaker 2: Luxon is at his best in front of other business leaders, 1422 01:28:49,853 --> 01:28:53,733 Speaker 2: an impressive, action driven speaker. If we are to avoid 1423 01:28:53,813 --> 01:28:58,413 Speaker 2: another election backflip, his communication style needs to be addressed 1424 01:28:58,733 --> 01:29:02,653 Speaker 2: by an expert with urgency. The people he needs to 1425 01:29:02,693 --> 01:29:06,413 Speaker 2: appeal to, most those that swing at every election, just 1426 01:29:06,733 --> 01:29:09,773 Speaker 2: don't get him. I have no wish to return to 1427 01:29:09,813 --> 01:29:14,173 Speaker 2: the daily handwringing, the murdered vows and the hangdog expressions 1428 01:29:14,173 --> 01:29:18,093 Speaker 2: from the pulpit of doom style of leadership. I do, however, 1429 01:29:18,293 --> 01:29:21,893 Speaker 2: want someone to help Luxon, save himself and above all, 1430 01:29:21,973 --> 01:29:26,173 Speaker 2: our country before it's too late. Heaven help us if 1431 01:29:26,173 --> 01:29:29,133 Speaker 2: we wake up late in twenty twenty six to a 1432 01:29:29,293 --> 01:29:35,133 Speaker 2: labor to party Mari and Greens led government. Best wishes 1433 01:29:35,573 --> 01:29:40,613 Speaker 2: Liz superbly put together. I hope it was superbly read 1434 01:29:41,013 --> 01:29:44,253 Speaker 2: or at least passes, and I congratulate you. And that's 1435 01:29:44,293 --> 01:29:47,533 Speaker 2: what we need more of. Say it, folks, great letters, 1436 01:29:47,533 --> 01:29:48,733 Speaker 2: put it in writing. 1437 01:29:48,653 --> 01:29:51,253 Speaker 4: And thank you to all of you for that very thing. 1438 01:29:51,453 --> 01:29:53,773 Speaker 2: Indeed, and we shall see you next week. 1439 01:29:53,813 --> 01:29:55,133 Speaker 4: You will thank you so much. 1440 01:29:55,173 --> 01:30:08,053 Speaker 2: Thank you cardly, and don't miss what's next. No, I 1441 01:30:08,053 --> 01:30:10,573 Speaker 2: guess she could say that what I'm about to deliver 1442 01:30:11,613 --> 01:30:14,933 Speaker 2: is at least consistent with the topics that we've spoken 1443 01:30:14,933 --> 01:30:18,933 Speaker 2: about the last couple of podcasts with Rodney Hyde. In 1444 01:30:18,973 --> 01:30:22,213 Speaker 2: two seven five, of course, we talked about sex, education, 1445 01:30:22,293 --> 01:30:25,813 Speaker 2: school and other scholastic things. And this week, of course, 1446 01:30:25,813 --> 01:30:30,973 Speaker 2: we just concluded a conversation with Michael de Percy on 1447 01:30:32,013 --> 01:30:35,173 Speaker 2: well much of it was on education, and so is 1448 01:30:35,213 --> 01:30:37,333 Speaker 2: what is about to follow. For those of you who 1449 01:30:37,373 --> 01:30:41,213 Speaker 2: don't know who Amy brook Is. She made her name 1450 01:30:41,693 --> 01:30:45,013 Speaker 2: as a children's book writer. A long time ago, she 1451 01:30:46,013 --> 01:30:48,813 Speaker 2: published a book called one Hundred Days, which is an 1452 01:30:48,853 --> 01:30:51,653 Speaker 2: attempt on her part to persuade us that the Swiss 1453 01:30:51,733 --> 01:30:55,653 Speaker 2: system of governance would suit this country better than anything 1454 01:30:55,693 --> 01:31:00,173 Speaker 2: else that we've adopted. And I don't want to say 1455 01:31:00,173 --> 01:31:03,293 Speaker 2: that she's failed in convincing us, because quite a few 1456 01:31:03,293 --> 01:31:06,733 Speaker 2: people have her book. The one hundred Days is still 1457 01:31:06,773 --> 01:31:10,893 Speaker 2: available anybody who wanted to get through Amazon. But let 1458 01:31:10,933 --> 01:31:13,973 Speaker 2: me quote you, one of the most unfortunate things that 1459 01:31:14,013 --> 01:31:17,053 Speaker 2: has happened to New Zealand is that we no longer 1460 01:31:17,133 --> 01:31:20,533 Speaker 2: have a quality magazine examining what is happening in this 1461 01:31:20,653 --> 01:31:24,613 Speaker 2: part of the world from a socio political point of view. 1462 01:31:24,653 --> 01:31:30,613 Speaker 2: Given this, fine Australian magazine such as Newsweekly and Quadrant 1463 01:31:30,773 --> 01:31:35,613 Speaker 2: are well worth support. I'm not familiar with Newsweekly, but 1464 01:31:35,773 --> 01:31:39,773 Speaker 2: Quadrant I certainly am. I checked my backlog of Quadrant 1465 01:31:39,773 --> 01:31:43,893 Speaker 2: magazines prior to recording this, and the oldest ones that 1466 01:31:43,933 --> 01:31:46,733 Speaker 2: I can lay my hands on are from two thousand 1467 01:31:46,773 --> 01:31:49,773 Speaker 2: and three. And as I was waiting for missus producer 1468 01:31:49,813 --> 01:31:51,533 Speaker 2: to come to the mail room, I was looking through 1469 01:31:51,573 --> 01:31:54,333 Speaker 2: to mail and there was a quadrant for today and 1470 01:31:54,613 --> 01:31:58,973 Speaker 2: lo and behold a disappointment called Chris Luxen written by 1471 01:31:59,293 --> 01:32:02,813 Speaker 2: Amy Brook. Given the extraordinary damage done to the economy 1472 01:32:02,933 --> 01:32:05,893 Speaker 2: of this country by the former Labor government, the National 1473 01:32:05,933 --> 01:32:10,373 Speaker 2: Party's initiatives to attract investment can only be applauded. However, 1474 01:32:10,613 --> 01:32:14,813 Speaker 2: the voting public can be particularly ungrateful, especially when the 1475 01:32:14,853 --> 01:32:19,333 Speaker 2: government's focus, no matter how important in economic terms, is 1476 01:32:19,373 --> 01:32:23,333 Speaker 2: not taking into account issues of considerable importance to the 1477 01:32:23,373 --> 01:32:26,573 Speaker 2: majority of New Zealanders, and public perception is everything. We 1478 01:32:26,733 --> 01:32:29,333 Speaker 2: all know that what is being taught in our schools 1479 01:32:29,453 --> 01:32:34,373 Speaker 2: is a travesty of a genuine education, as Kevin Donnelly confirms, 1480 01:32:34,973 --> 01:32:38,733 Speaker 2: is likewise the case in Australia, and no one Minister 1481 01:32:38,853 --> 01:32:42,453 Speaker 2: of Education, no matter how well intentioned, has a chance 1482 01:32:42,493 --> 01:32:46,013 Speaker 2: of restoring standards. Given that the Ministry of Education has 1483 01:32:46,053 --> 01:32:50,573 Speaker 2: become an institution where neo Marxist controllers of the curriculum 1484 01:32:50,973 --> 01:32:55,053 Speaker 2: have long become entrenched. There will be no chance at 1485 01:32:55,093 --> 01:32:58,333 Speaker 2: all for genuine education reform until the Ministry of Education 1486 01:32:58,573 --> 01:33:01,893 Speaker 2: is disbanded and the decisions on what should be taught 1487 01:33:01,893 --> 01:33:06,413 Speaker 2: in schools are left to parents. Decentralizing education so that 1488 01:33:06,613 --> 01:33:09,693 Speaker 2: in every province education is establishments are set up with 1489 01:33:09,813 --> 01:33:13,373 Speaker 2: parents in control, not the bureaucrats nor the left wing 1490 01:33:13,453 --> 01:33:17,613 Speaker 2: teacher unions, would facilitate a return to what needs to 1491 01:33:17,653 --> 01:33:21,293 Speaker 2: be taught and taught well. This goes on Former Labor 1492 01:33:21,413 --> 01:33:25,653 Speaker 2: leader Chrysipkin's left wing mother will have had considerable influence 1493 01:33:25,693 --> 01:33:29,093 Speaker 2: on the dumbing down of the curriculum. Chief researcher for 1494 01:33:29,173 --> 01:33:32,813 Speaker 2: the New Zealand Council of Educational Research, she is one 1495 01:33:32,853 --> 01:33:36,493 Speaker 2: of the strongest advocates for the new Science curriculum, with 1496 01:33:36,613 --> 01:33:41,893 Speaker 2: its politicized agenda, prioritizing quote matters of concern close quote 1497 01:33:42,053 --> 01:33:46,893 Speaker 2: over actual facts. Under this last Labor government, Latin, which 1498 01:33:47,053 --> 01:33:50,573 Speaker 2: I later regarded as the most important subject I studied 1499 01:33:50,573 --> 01:33:55,413 Speaker 2: in school, was conveniently removed. It necessitated academic standards high 1500 01:33:55,533 --> 01:33:59,013 Speaker 2: enough to challenge board pupils such as I was, to 1501 01:33:59,133 --> 01:34:02,573 Speaker 2: change their attitudes. In fact, it wasn't so long ago 1502 01:34:02,733 --> 01:34:07,133 Speaker 2: in England that one could pass all other exams but 1503 01:34:07,253 --> 01:34:10,573 Speaker 2: would not get into some top universities if one failed 1504 01:34:10,573 --> 01:34:13,853 Speaker 2: to pass in Latin. So much was it valued. So 1505 01:34:14,173 --> 01:34:17,453 Speaker 2: from here I will quote only briefly from the remains 1506 01:34:17,453 --> 01:34:20,613 Speaker 2: of the article. Moreover, most parents would not be mandating 1507 01:34:20,653 --> 01:34:24,653 Speaker 2: the celebration in schools of LGBT identification as a source 1508 01:34:24,693 --> 01:34:27,813 Speaker 2: of great pride, and would certainly be in favor of 1509 01:34:27,853 --> 01:34:32,013 Speaker 2: removing from the curriculum the highly graphic sex education which 1510 01:34:32,053 --> 01:34:36,813 Speaker 2: is today encouraging teenagers toward well. We spoke with Rodney 1511 01:34:36,893 --> 01:34:38,933 Speaker 2: Hyde about this. He went into some detail, and you 1512 01:34:38,933 --> 01:34:41,413 Speaker 2: can duplicate that here parents are going to have to 1513 01:34:41,493 --> 01:34:46,013 Speaker 2: object more strongly, as is now happening overseas, where, for example, 1514 01:34:46,573 --> 01:34:49,613 Speaker 2: strong opposition is now being mounted against drag queens being 1515 01:34:49,613 --> 01:34:52,573 Speaker 2: allowed to perform in front of children in libraries. In 1516 01:34:52,613 --> 01:34:55,693 Speaker 2: spite of the inevitable media frenzy, many New Zealanders will 1517 01:34:55,693 --> 01:34:59,853 Speaker 2: be quietly applauding the protest the Destiny Church has mounted 1518 01:35:00,213 --> 01:35:04,293 Speaker 2: against this. Moreover, in the next paragraph, Prime Minister Christopher 1519 01:35:04,333 --> 01:35:08,133 Speaker 2: Luxen is now under fire, as the Conservative Party points out, 1520 01:35:08,453 --> 01:35:12,813 Speaker 2: because of his dismissive response to an early childhood educator 1521 01:35:12,813 --> 01:35:18,253 Speaker 2: who raised the alarm over a growing number of preschool children, yes, kindergarteners, 1522 01:35:18,933 --> 01:35:23,453 Speaker 2: requiring they be addressed as they them rather than as 1523 01:35:23,493 --> 01:35:27,213 Speaker 2: boys and girls. Rather than acknowledge such growing concerns and 1524 01:35:27,253 --> 01:35:30,853 Speaker 2: the effect on vulnerable children of the transgender movement, the 1525 01:35:30,893 --> 01:35:36,093 Speaker 2: Prime Minister dismissed this concern instead instead issuing a generic 1526 01:35:36,253 --> 01:35:41,413 Speaker 2: statement of support for the LGBT community, thus completely ignoring 1527 01:35:41,453 --> 01:35:45,253 Speaker 2: the particular issue at hand. Moreover, a previous government's decision 1528 01:35:45,293 --> 01:35:49,133 Speaker 2: to ban conversion theory from being accessed to help youngsters 1529 01:35:49,173 --> 01:35:52,613 Speaker 2: wanting to free themselves from same sex relationships should never 1530 01:35:52,693 --> 01:35:56,213 Speaker 2: have been a government decision. And then she refers to 1531 01:35:56,853 --> 01:35:59,373 Speaker 2: the fact that New Zealand is now hundreds of teachers 1532 01:35:59,573 --> 01:36:03,333 Speaker 2: short and no wonder when writing some usback for Ian 1533 01:36:03,333 --> 01:36:07,173 Speaker 2: Wishart's Investigate magazine in relation to the deliberate dumbing down 1534 01:36:07,213 --> 01:36:10,533 Speaker 2: of education in this country. I was contacted by so 1535 01:36:10,613 --> 01:36:13,853 Speaker 2: many teachers and principles and even lecturers and former professors, 1536 01:36:14,333 --> 01:36:17,493 Speaker 2: appalled at what was happening, some writing in the trade 1537 01:36:17,533 --> 01:36:20,413 Speaker 2: journals to object. I would try to encourage them to 1538 01:36:20,453 --> 01:36:23,973 Speaker 2: write to the mainstream media, where what was happening would 1539 01:36:23,973 --> 01:36:28,053 Speaker 2: then be more widely known, only to be told their 1540 01:36:28,173 --> 01:36:32,653 Speaker 2: articles were always refused publication. And those of us in 1541 01:36:33,333 --> 01:36:38,173 Speaker 2: the business know that this is essentially true. There has 1542 01:36:38,293 --> 01:36:40,293 Speaker 2: long been a battle for the minds and hearts of 1543 01:36:40,333 --> 01:36:44,373 Speaker 2: young New Zealanders, and indeed their parents and conservative parents 1544 01:36:44,373 --> 01:36:47,733 Speaker 2: have lost because the long march through the institutions by 1545 01:36:47,813 --> 01:36:52,613 Speaker 2: neo Marxists that is basically communist influences, was well underway 1546 01:36:52,773 --> 01:36:56,453 Speaker 2: by the nineteen sixties. At any way, where are the 1547 01:36:56,533 --> 01:37:00,293 Speaker 2: replacements going to come from? The teacher replacements? No intelligent, 1548 01:37:00,413 --> 01:37:04,773 Speaker 2: academically qualified graduates, even those keen to share enthusiasm for 1549 01:37:04,813 --> 01:37:09,333 Speaker 2: their chosen subjects of physics, chemistry, history, languages, etc. None 1550 01:37:09,333 --> 01:37:12,213 Speaker 2: of them will want to enter a profession which compels 1551 01:37:12,253 --> 01:37:16,253 Speaker 2: them to learn and inflict upon their pupils that almost 1552 01:37:16,333 --> 01:37:20,253 Speaker 2: completely fake language to Rao, which bears little resemblance to 1553 01:37:20,293 --> 01:37:23,653 Speaker 2: the original Marri language that is spoken nowhere else in 1554 01:37:23,733 --> 01:37:26,773 Speaker 2: the world. Amy has been butting her head against that 1555 01:37:27,893 --> 01:37:31,253 Speaker 2: for as long as I can remember. Anyway, taking all 1556 01:37:31,293 --> 01:37:34,893 Speaker 2: these things into account, is quite obvious why teacher shortage 1557 01:37:35,413 --> 01:37:39,253 Speaker 2: is going to remain. There are so many issues this 1558 01:37:39,333 --> 01:37:43,613 Speaker 2: conservative coalition is failing to address. Both the destructive Jasindra 1559 01:37:43,653 --> 01:37:47,813 Speaker 2: Adirn and Christopher Luxon's governments have set a mission targets 1560 01:37:47,853 --> 01:37:52,573 Speaker 2: so ridiculously high that they would impinge on agricultural productivity. 1561 01:37:53,293 --> 01:37:55,893 Speaker 2: I was on looking ahead and seeing CO two and 1562 01:37:55,893 --> 01:37:58,813 Speaker 2: omissions and what have you. I was tempted to get 1563 01:37:58,813 --> 01:38:01,093 Speaker 2: into it a bit today, but I've decided not to 1564 01:38:01,293 --> 01:38:05,093 Speaker 2: because I want to do a podcast on it very shortly. 1565 01:38:06,373 --> 01:38:08,973 Speaker 2: What a part of state we have come to? And 1566 01:38:09,013 --> 01:38:12,893 Speaker 2: why is this supposedly conservative government not representing the wishes 1567 01:38:12,933 --> 01:38:16,533 Speaker 2: of the majority of New Zealanders but operating with such 1568 01:38:16,613 --> 01:38:20,093 Speaker 2: blinkers on that it would lose the election if it 1569 01:38:20,093 --> 01:38:23,733 Speaker 2: were to be held tomorrow. Luxon is no longer viewed 1570 01:38:23,853 --> 01:38:27,533 Speaker 2: as a leader with a finely tuned attennae. On the contrary, 1571 01:38:27,573 --> 01:38:30,733 Speaker 2: he is costing the National Party votes. And no, we 1572 01:38:30,853 --> 01:38:34,173 Speaker 2: do not need a four year parliamentary term. It's this 1573 01:38:34,333 --> 01:38:38,213 Speaker 2: is quite obvious if we reflect upon the further damage 1574 01:38:38,253 --> 01:38:42,413 Speaker 2: that Adern's and Grant Robinson's governments would have done had 1575 01:38:42,453 --> 01:38:45,933 Speaker 2: they been allowed to proceed for a year longer. A 1576 01:38:46,013 --> 01:38:48,173 Speaker 2: three year term is quite sufficient. 1577 01:38:49,333 --> 01:38:49,493 Speaker 3: Now. 1578 01:38:49,533 --> 01:38:53,293 Speaker 2: I don't know about you, but I hope and cross 1579 01:38:53,333 --> 01:38:57,053 Speaker 2: my fingers for what it's worth, that Christopher Luxen will 1580 01:38:57,453 --> 01:39:01,653 Speaker 2: come to life at some stage, that someone will be 1581 01:39:01,693 --> 01:39:05,173 Speaker 2: able to penetrate his brain and let him know what 1582 01:39:05,253 --> 01:39:08,213 Speaker 2: he's doing wrong and certainly what he's not doing right, 1583 01:39:09,013 --> 01:39:13,053 Speaker 2: and persuade him Accordingly, this country cannot afford another term 1584 01:39:13,093 --> 01:39:16,533 Speaker 2: like the Adern regime and that will take us out 1585 01:39:16,573 --> 01:39:20,013 Speaker 2: for podcast two hundred and seventy six. Now, if you'd 1586 01:39:20,053 --> 01:39:22,413 Speaker 2: like to write to us latent at newstalksb dot co 1587 01:39:22,533 --> 01:39:25,093 Speaker 2: dot z or Carolyn C. A R O. L y 1588 01:39:25,293 --> 01:39:28,493 Speaker 2: n at newstalksb dot co dot z. We do love 1589 01:39:28,493 --> 01:39:32,293 Speaker 2: getting email and we appreciate it, so go for it. 1590 01:39:33,053 --> 01:39:36,853 Speaker 2: We shall return in well a few days for podcast 1591 01:39:36,973 --> 01:39:42,493 Speaker 2: number two hundred and seventy seven. Until then, as always, 1592 01:39:42,653 --> 01:39:45,053 Speaker 2: it's a case of thank you for listening, thank you 1593 01:39:45,053 --> 01:39:47,453 Speaker 2: for your correspondence. This week is really good. Thank you 1594 01:39:47,493 --> 01:39:49,253 Speaker 2: for listening, and we shall talk soon. 1595 01:39:57,093 --> 01:40:01,493 Speaker 1: Thank you for more from Newstalks EDB. Listen live on 1596 01:40:01,573 --> 01:40:04,533 Speaker 1: air or online, and keep our shows with you wherever 1597 01:40:04,573 --> 01:40:07,173 Speaker 1: you go with our podcast on iHeartRadio