WEBVTT - Janet Xuccoa: Trusts aren't just for the wealthy 0:00:05.721 --> 0:00:09.401 You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks. 0:00:09.441 --> 0:00:09.681 It be. 0:00:11.361 --> 0:00:15.161 Find me to the moon, Let me play up there 0:00:15.321 --> 0:00:20.161 with those stars, let me see what spring is like. 0:00:20.361 --> 0:00:22.601 Ad you bitter and. 0:00:22.801 --> 0:00:28.081 Mark in other words, hold my hand. 0:00:30.721 --> 0:00:39.281 In other words, maybe kiss me, kill my heartless song 0:00:39.681 --> 0:00:45.681 and let me sing forevermore. You are all out along 0:00:45.921 --> 0:00:52.321 for all our worship and the doll another words, another words, 0:00:52.801 --> 0:00:59.841 please be true? Any other words, I've been in love 0:00:59.961 --> 0:01:00.561 with you. 0:01:04.281 --> 0:01:06.521 Ah. I just had to wait for the band break there. 0:01:06.681 --> 0:01:08.761 So there's a little bit of Frank Sinasha. I think 0:01:08.801 --> 0:01:10.761 that's his Duets album. I know I have no idea 0:01:10.801 --> 0:01:14.201 who he's singing with there, but great arrangements and everything. Anyway, 0:01:14.561 --> 0:01:16.201 Welcome back to the Shay. I'm Tim Beverage. This is 0:01:16.201 --> 0:01:18.921 the Weekend Collective. If you missed the chat we have 0:01:18.961 --> 0:01:22.601 with Alex flint Or from the Health Hub but also 0:01:22.761 --> 0:01:25.601 Politics Central, where we discussed, among other things, the crackdown 0:01:25.601 --> 0:01:27.201 on the boy of racist has been announced by Chris 0:01:27.241 --> 0:01:29.241 Bishop and Mark Mitchell, then you can go and check 0:01:29.241 --> 0:01:31.521 out our podcast. Just go to News Talk seed b 0:01:32.121 --> 0:01:34.881 and look for the Weekend Collective and every hour, once 0:01:34.881 --> 0:01:36.881 we've done it, we get it loaded online pretty quickly, 0:01:36.921 --> 0:01:39.561 so you should be safe to search for that anytime. 0:01:39.961 --> 0:01:42.521 But right now we're going this is smart money. We 0:01:42.561 --> 0:01:44.521 are going to have a chat about trusts. In fact, 0:01:44.561 --> 0:01:46.481 a couple of weeks over the last week or two, 0:01:46.481 --> 0:01:49.881 we've had some people calling asking questions about trust and 0:01:49.881 --> 0:01:52.681 we're you're a week too early or your two weeks 0:01:52.681 --> 0:01:56.761 too early, because we have a trusts expert in the 0:01:56.841 --> 0:02:00.961 studio and she is, well, she's why she'd let her 0:02:00.961 --> 0:02:03.401 introduce herself. Actually she's been on the show before. But 0:02:03.481 --> 0:02:06.081 we want your care before I introduce you, sir. We 0:02:06.081 --> 0:02:09.521 want your calls if you've got any questions about trust 0:02:09.561 --> 0:02:12.241 because a lot of people think that trusts are only 0:02:12.401 --> 0:02:16.241 for the very wealthy. Of course, the expression that comes 0:02:16.281 --> 0:02:19.281 to mind is a trust fund baby? Why does that 0:02:19.321 --> 0:02:21.081 baby have a trust fund? But what was it set 0:02:21.161 --> 0:02:24.281 up for? And the assumption is that it's useless for 0:02:24.361 --> 0:02:26.881 the everyday person, And maybe it does seem that way 0:02:26.921 --> 0:02:29.601 to you. But when might you want to trust, whether 0:02:29.641 --> 0:02:32.081 you've been in a former relationship, do you need to 0:02:32.081 --> 0:02:34.401 set up a trust for your kids? But there are 0:02:34.401 --> 0:02:36.481 many reasons that people may want to start a trust, 0:02:37.121 --> 0:02:39.361 which is why our guest is here to explain that 0:02:39.401 --> 0:02:41.641 for us, and she's a trust expert. And as I said, 0:02:41.801 --> 0:02:45.081 in her name is Janet Zukoa. Janet, how are you going. 0:02:45.401 --> 0:02:47.081 I'm well, thank you, thank you for having me on 0:02:47.121 --> 0:02:47.401 the show. 0:02:47.721 --> 0:02:52.041 You're welcome, thanks for coming in. Now, actually tell us 0:02:52.081 --> 0:02:53.561 a little bit about I mean, you've been on the 0:02:53.561 --> 0:02:56.721 show just just once before. How did you get into 0:02:57.201 --> 0:03:00.681 trusts and what's your background in terms of and you've 0:03:00.681 --> 0:03:02.481 written a couple of books actually, which I've got a 0:03:02.481 --> 0:03:04.361 copy of here. But anyway, how did you get into it? 0:03:04.521 --> 0:03:08.241 Well, I've got a commerce degree majoring in accounting, and 0:03:08.281 --> 0:03:12.041 I've got a law degree, and I have a very 0:03:12.641 --> 0:03:16.961 high interest in tax and trusts and economics. 0:03:17.241 --> 0:03:19.081 Yep. When did that develop? Was that something? You were 0:03:19.081 --> 0:03:22.321 always interested in the financial side of things and legal 0:03:22.361 --> 0:03:24.001 structures and accounting. 0:03:23.961 --> 0:03:28.601 Early early I can remember raiding my father's factory of 0:03:28.521 --> 0:03:32.001 a puzzle pieces that were rejected for an export order 0:03:32.201 --> 0:03:34.321 and getting out there in the markets and standing on 0:03:34.721 --> 0:03:36.721 literally an apple box and trying to sell them when 0:03:36.761 --> 0:03:38.721 I was really little. So I was always interested in 0:03:39.761 --> 0:03:40.721 always interested. 0:03:42.681 --> 0:03:45.121 So when did and when did you get into the 0:03:45.161 --> 0:03:46.161 trust side of things? 0:03:46.281 --> 0:03:49.641 I think really My interest developed in trust when I 0:03:49.681 --> 0:03:54.801 started to become keen on tax because in a tax 0:03:54.841 --> 0:03:57.081 structure you will often find a trust or two. 0:03:57.561 --> 0:04:03.241 Yeah, I noticed your company is New Zealand Family Trust 0:04:03.281 --> 0:04:08.761 Services Limited, So I guessing family trusts are You're guessing. 0:04:08.921 --> 0:04:12.041 Absolutely, So when New Zealand's trust are your choice because 0:04:12.161 --> 0:04:15.561 that is all we do, is trusts, and as a 0:04:15.561 --> 0:04:19.041 result of that, our fees are not outlandish, and our 0:04:19.081 --> 0:04:21.401 processes are good, and we're available. 0:04:21.761 --> 0:04:23.881 How easy is it to set up a trust? Because 0:04:25.081 --> 0:04:28.161 obviously there's the simple sort of crew way. I mean, 0:04:28.281 --> 0:04:30.201 there's always the DIY, but that would be fraught, I 0:04:30.201 --> 0:04:33.001 would guess. But are there some basics to setting up 0:04:33.001 --> 0:04:36.321 a trust that mean it shouldn't be as scary for 0:04:36.361 --> 0:04:38.641 people as they might imagine, like, oh, that sounds like 0:04:38.681 --> 0:04:39.441 a big deal. 0:04:39.961 --> 0:04:42.521 It shouldn't be scary, but people should be aware of 0:04:42.561 --> 0:04:45.401 what they're doing when they when they're setting up a trust, 0:04:45.521 --> 0:04:48.601 entering into a trust relationship. So if you're settling a 0:04:48.641 --> 0:04:51.601 trust and you're putting assets into it, you are divesting 0:04:51.681 --> 0:04:55.481 yourself of those assets of direct control as an individual, 0:04:55.521 --> 0:04:59.321 as an owner, and you're putting that control into the 0:04:59.361 --> 0:05:03.601 trustees hands, who of course, should be acting for the 0:05:03.601 --> 0:05:05.921 best benefit of the the beneficiaries. 0:05:06.761 --> 0:05:09.361 What are the limits of when it comes to trusts, 0:05:09.401 --> 0:05:13.401 Like somebody says, I've got that. I mean here, just 0:05:13.441 --> 0:05:16.281 a very crude example would be someone who's got a 0:05:16.321 --> 0:05:19.521 lot of money, they don't want any future relationships, sort 0:05:19.521 --> 0:05:21.081 of get in their hands on it and they want 0:05:21.081 --> 0:05:22.441 to set up a trust and they go, I've got 0:05:22.481 --> 0:05:25.721 all my money and a trust. Well, it's technically not 0:05:25.801 --> 0:05:26.841 your money any longer. 0:05:27.121 --> 0:05:29.681 It's certainly not so. Once you set up the trust 0:05:29.721 --> 0:05:32.001 and move the assets into the trust, then, as I said, 0:05:32.001 --> 0:05:34.521 you divested your personal ownership and you put it in 0:05:34.561 --> 0:05:37.561 the hands of the trustees. But that's not necessarily going 0:05:37.601 --> 0:05:41.721 to be bulletproof against personal relationships. Yeah, And we did 0:05:41.801 --> 0:05:44.601 have a question the last time I was here from 0:05:44.601 --> 0:05:47.841 a gentleman who was thinking about setting up a trust 0:05:47.881 --> 0:05:50.361 but was in a relationship. And I said at the 0:05:50.441 --> 0:05:54.521 time you certainly needed to take legal advice and that 0:05:55.041 --> 0:05:58.761 with regards to trust. If you're going to enter into 0:05:58.881 --> 0:06:01.641 personal relationship and you want to keep your assets separate, 0:06:02.001 --> 0:06:04.401 then it's important to come plain at the very beginning. 0:06:04.841 --> 0:06:07.081 And yes, certainly have trust, but you also need a 0:06:07.081 --> 0:06:10.361 property relationship agreement. Yeah, both of them. I like my 0:06:10.441 --> 0:06:13.121 clients to have them in conjunction with each. 0:06:12.921 --> 0:06:16.281 Other actually, because I mean, the best time to have 0:06:16.281 --> 0:06:18.521 a trust is before you think you need it. And 0:06:18.561 --> 0:06:21.201 that's the problem is that you don't think you need 0:06:21.201 --> 0:06:23.561 it until you need it, and by then sometimes it's 0:06:23.601 --> 0:06:26.761 too late. Is that that one of the sort of problems. 0:06:27.081 --> 0:06:30.041 So the problem there was recently a case about that. 0:06:30.081 --> 0:06:34.041 The problem is the proximity of establishing a trust and 0:06:34.121 --> 0:06:36.721 moving assets into the trust and then entering into a 0:06:36.761 --> 0:06:40.681 personal relationship. So the claim can always be that you're 0:06:40.721 --> 0:06:44.441 trying to I supposed to get out of sharing with 0:06:44.481 --> 0:06:48.601 your with your nearest and dearest or off have assets 0:06:48.641 --> 0:06:50.361 off so you don't have to share them. Should the 0:06:50.441 --> 0:06:51.321 unthinkable happen? 0:06:51.721 --> 0:06:55.961 Because one of the for many people, one of the 0:06:56.001 --> 0:06:58.081 concerns they would be if you've been in a relationship 0:06:58.161 --> 0:07:01.081 and you've had kids and you want to protect your 0:07:01.481 --> 0:07:05.361 income or your assets or your wealth for those chill children. 0:07:06.401 --> 0:07:09.281 Is that quite a common scenario where people would go, 0:07:09.361 --> 0:07:12.681 you know what, I've come through a divorce. I really 0:07:12.681 --> 0:07:14.441 want to look after the kids, and I just don't 0:07:14.481 --> 0:07:17.641 want to have the I don't want to threaten their 0:07:17.681 --> 0:07:20.481 futures by you know, losing half of it in the 0:07:20.521 --> 0:07:22.161 next relationship that falls apart. 0:07:22.201 --> 0:07:25.081 The GST clients, So they lose fifty percent first round, 0:07:25.161 --> 0:07:27.281 and then everyone's in title a couple of tryouts, aren't 0:07:27.321 --> 0:07:31.321 they managed, so then they have then there lose another 0:07:31.361 --> 0:07:34.001 half of the half that they've got and they kind 0:07:34.001 --> 0:07:36.441 of end up with, you know, fifteen percent or less. 0:07:36.441 --> 0:07:39.761 So the gstc lights we call them. So we do 0:07:39.921 --> 0:07:43.401 find that individuals that are that are on their own 0:07:44.281 --> 0:07:46.961 and thinking that they may enter into a second, third, 0:07:47.001 --> 0:07:50.561 or fourth relationship do put their assets into trust to 0:07:50.641 --> 0:07:55.361 try and protect their children's inheritances. But recently, last couple 0:07:55.401 --> 0:07:58.161 of weeks, I've had a couple come in and they 0:07:58.201 --> 0:08:02.201 are on their second relationship. Yeah, they've done their they've 0:08:02.201 --> 0:08:05.841 done their financial settlements with their with their first spouses, 0:08:06.281 --> 0:08:09.441 they both got children, and what they want to do 0:08:09.521 --> 0:08:12.161 is they wanted to have a trust each which they did, 0:08:12.481 --> 0:08:16.201 and each of their trusts had its own assets in 0:08:17.481 --> 0:08:21.601 from the payout that they got from their first relationship basically, 0:08:22.201 --> 0:08:26.121 and then each trust went and contracted to buy half 0:08:26.361 --> 0:08:29.361 a house, a new house that that couple could live in. 0:08:29.841 --> 0:08:32.281 So what that they each had a trust and they 0:08:32.321 --> 0:08:34.721 want to buy a house, and so each trust buys 0:08:34.761 --> 0:08:36.121 half the house half the house. 0:08:35.961 --> 0:08:38.601 Right, And so what that's going to do is that's 0:08:38.641 --> 0:08:42.201 going to if one of them died, that with along 0:08:42.241 --> 0:08:44.121 with a property relationship agreement. I might add that they 0:08:44.241 --> 0:08:47.081 entered into. What that's going to do is that if 0:08:47.121 --> 0:08:50.121 one of them does die, the half of that house 0:08:50.201 --> 0:08:54.281 under their estate planning documents will go to their children 0:08:54.681 --> 0:08:58.761 and not the other partner's children. That's how they planned that. 0:08:59.241 --> 0:09:03.801 So that doesn't that sounds inconvenient because you'd like to 0:09:03.841 --> 0:09:06.041 think that if you have in to the relationship and 0:09:06.081 --> 0:09:09.881 your loved one dies, that you can still live there until. 0:09:09.841 --> 0:09:13.721 They can still do that. But that's that's all been 0:09:13.841 --> 0:09:16.801 that's all been sorted out under a memoranimal wishes. But 0:09:17.201 --> 0:09:20.881 what will happen is that that person's half is really 0:09:20.961 --> 0:09:24.721 held for their children, not for the for the alive 0:09:25.001 --> 0:09:28.641 spouse's children. That's what I'm saying, they're not natural born children. 0:09:28.881 --> 0:09:30.841 What happens actually just in that, I mean, we could 0:09:30.841 --> 0:09:32.561 get bogged down in the weeds on this one. But 0:09:32.601 --> 0:09:35.721 if so, for instance, that does happen, somebody passes away, 0:09:36.121 --> 0:09:39.041 but you want to move. Does that can you still 0:09:39.081 --> 0:09:43.001 protect your ability to use the value of the house 0:09:43.081 --> 0:09:45.401 to move somewhere else, but still protect the other half 0:09:45.441 --> 0:09:47.081 for the. 0:09:46.361 --> 0:09:49.961 Issue, if you've had a proper trust expert on this 0:09:50.121 --> 0:09:52.801 case from the very beginning. And I say that because 0:09:52.801 --> 0:09:55.001 there are a lot of people out there that set 0:09:55.041 --> 0:09:58.721 up trusts and that they're really it's a it's another 0:09:58.801 --> 0:10:02.521 service that they offer and they don't necessarily specialized in trusts. 0:10:02.681 --> 0:10:04.921 But if you've had a trust expert on that job, 0:10:05.361 --> 0:10:07.721 then they are likely to be working with lawyers and 0:10:07.761 --> 0:10:10.361 accountants and all of that is sorted out at the 0:10:10.481 --> 0:10:15.201 very beginning. So you need to plan for those eventualities 0:10:15.241 --> 0:10:17.161 at the beginning of setting up the trust. 0:10:17.561 --> 0:10:19.881 What's your response when people think that trusts are just 0:10:19.921 --> 0:10:20.801 for wealthy people? 0:10:21.481 --> 0:10:25.001 So, well, no longer. Not in New Zealand. I mean 0:10:25.041 --> 0:10:28.361 New Zealand is a land of entrepreneurship. I don't know 0:10:28.361 --> 0:10:30.081 how many trusts we have because we don't have a 0:10:30.121 --> 0:10:32.241 register like we have a register of companies. We don't 0:10:32.241 --> 0:10:35.121 actually have a register of trust. But there's been estimated 0:10:35.161 --> 0:10:38.441 somewhere between four and six hundred thousand trusts in New Zealand. 0:10:38.481 --> 0:10:40.801 So that's a lot of trust per capita what we 0:10:40.881 --> 0:10:41.281 got here. 0:10:41.441 --> 0:10:43.521 I thought it might actually behind that funnily enough, but yeah, 0:10:43.561 --> 0:10:44.121 that's still. 0:10:44.001 --> 0:10:47.561 Well, well that's what they're saying, and people think that 0:10:47.881 --> 0:10:50.601 they are for the uber wealth wealthy, and they also 0:10:50.641 --> 0:10:53.001 think that there might be something shunky about them, But 0:10:53.681 --> 0:10:57.441 that's very far from the truth. In New Zealand. Genuine 0:10:57.441 --> 0:11:01.481 New Zealanders who are seeking asset protection from creditors and 0:11:01.521 --> 0:11:07.001 their businesses from new relationship partners. People that want to 0:11:07.041 --> 0:11:11.841 set up trust for estate planning purposes or for inheritence purposes. 0:11:12.041 --> 0:11:14.001 Those are the people that are setting up the keys 0:11:14.001 --> 0:11:15.481 that are setting up trusts in New Zealand. 0:11:16.121 --> 0:11:19.801 So before we came on, you were talking about there 0:11:19.801 --> 0:11:22.401 were just recently you've had people three different people have 0:11:22.401 --> 0:11:25.001 set up trust for as an example, because this will 0:11:25.001 --> 0:11:27.041 also be food for thought for people who are listening, 0:11:27.361 --> 0:11:30.281 what are some of the examples of maybe those three 0:11:30.761 --> 0:11:32.041 motivations for a trust. 0:11:33.001 --> 0:11:36.441 So I would have to used different names here, of course. 0:11:40.281 --> 0:11:43.081 Yes, let's just go cut person A, B and C. 0:11:44.081 --> 0:11:49.041 So mister and missus A have just decided that they're 0:11:49.081 --> 0:11:53.561 going to start a furniture production company, and so they've 0:11:53.601 --> 0:11:55.481 come to me and they've got a home and they've 0:11:55.481 --> 0:11:57.761 got a little bit of money, and they want their 0:11:57.881 --> 0:12:00.121 house to be owned and the money to be owned 0:12:00.121 --> 0:12:02.641 by a trust so that it hives that off and 0:12:02.641 --> 0:12:04.441 protects that from company creditors. 0:12:04.521 --> 0:12:07.321 So they're going into business and if the business goes 0:12:08.041 --> 0:12:10.641 then they don't want to see everything gone because of that. 0:12:10.841 --> 0:12:12.961 Correct, And nobody goes into business. 0:12:12.681 --> 0:12:15.201 To foil No, but planning. 0:12:15.321 --> 0:12:18.401 Planning, that's sensible, that's sensible for our well. So that 0:12:18.481 --> 0:12:21.761 was that was one example. The second example that I 0:12:21.801 --> 0:12:24.161 had was what I've just told you. A couple had 0:12:24.161 --> 0:12:28.121 come in and wanted to ensure that if anything happened 0:12:28.121 --> 0:12:30.201 to them, if they if one of them died, the 0:12:31.361 --> 0:12:35.521 estate would be in trust for their for their children, 0:12:35.561 --> 0:12:39.001 their maternal born children, not the other partner's children. And 0:12:39.041 --> 0:12:42.401 the third I thought was quite admirable. There was there 0:12:42.481 --> 0:12:47.041 was a mother that came in and she she wanted 0:12:47.201 --> 0:12:51.761 to set up a trust for her child, a child's 0:12:51.761 --> 0:12:54.721 a young child, and she'd got some money from her 0:12:54.761 --> 0:12:57.521 parents and wanted to make sure that that was almost safe. 0:12:57.601 --> 0:12:59.081 And I think that's very sensible. 0:12:59.761 --> 0:13:05.001 So how often in the my crude memory of equal 0:13:05.241 --> 0:13:09.081 and trusts is that the law has evolved to the 0:13:09.161 --> 0:13:12.881 extent that trusts are not as rock solid as they 0:13:13.001 --> 0:13:14.601 used to be used to. I think under the old 0:13:14.601 --> 0:13:16.601 English common law, you set up a trust and goodbye, 0:13:16.681 --> 0:13:19.921 that money's gone, Whereas now the courts will look through 0:13:20.041 --> 0:13:23.201 transactions and go, well, okay, we understand you better trust 0:13:23.281 --> 0:13:25.201 set up, but it was set up with this motivation 0:13:25.321 --> 0:13:28.681 in hand, and we're not buying it. Basically, Well, they 0:13:28.761 --> 0:13:33.521 look through it because it might be to defeat some another. 0:13:33.281 --> 0:13:35.321 Way to defeat a creditors, right, oh yes. 0:13:35.361 --> 0:13:37.681 In other words, well, the example would be that furniture 0:13:37.681 --> 0:13:41.681 production company. If they have set that up and six 0:13:41.721 --> 0:13:44.761 months later they go bun, how solid is the trust 0:13:44.801 --> 0:13:47.441 they set up to protect their family home? Because the 0:13:47.441 --> 0:13:49.561 courts might go, well, hang on a minute, this is 0:13:49.681 --> 0:13:53.041 simply set up to defeat a response. It's something you 0:13:53.081 --> 0:13:56.561 should have provided for for your creditors. Where does that 0:13:56.601 --> 0:13:57.881 get murky? 0:13:57.681 --> 0:14:00.681 So there's got to be the right intention of setting 0:14:00.761 --> 0:14:03.481 up a trust, and assets can be clawed back out 0:14:03.481 --> 0:14:06.641 of a trust if the intention has been proven that 0:14:06.841 --> 0:14:09.721 they've been trying to defeat the purposes of creditors or 0:14:09.881 --> 0:14:10.921 relationship partners. 0:14:11.041 --> 0:14:13.321 Yeah, does that mean that when you're sending out of trust, 0:14:13.361 --> 0:14:15.321 you record the intention or you put. 0:14:15.201 --> 0:14:17.921 Something I do with my clients, I do I'm very 0:14:17.921 --> 0:14:20.521 clear or not. I take copious amounts of notes of 0:14:20.561 --> 0:14:24.481 why we're doing things and what the what the reasoning is. 0:14:24.521 --> 0:14:27.121 Oh so you do that as a record of the 0:14:27.281 --> 0:14:30.361 basis for the transaction, in addition to saying in the 0:14:30.401 --> 0:14:33.721 trust deed like a preamble whereas the party wants to 0:14:33.761 --> 0:14:36.721 do X, onye and z for this reason, which anyone 0:14:36.721 --> 0:14:38.841 can make up an excuse. But you use your notes 0:14:38.881 --> 0:14:40.401 as well as a backup. 0:14:41.001 --> 0:14:43.481 And that's the beauty of New Zealand Family Trust Services. 0:14:43.521 --> 0:14:46.321 That is all we do, is I've said, just trust work. 0:14:46.441 --> 0:14:49.241 So right from the very beginning, when we have a 0:14:49.281 --> 0:14:53.801 meeting with a client, we take down detailed notes as 0:14:53.881 --> 0:14:56.121 to what we're doing and why we're doing it. We 0:14:56.241 --> 0:14:58.721 make sure that the trust deeders fit for purpose for 0:14:58.801 --> 0:15:02.681 the circumstances that we're addressing. It's not a quokie cutter 0:15:02.801 --> 0:15:04.961 exercise where you just bash everything out and it's like 0:15:05.361 --> 0:15:06.721 you can have one and you can have one and 0:15:06.801 --> 0:15:09.881 put another one over here. So and we make sure 0:15:09.921 --> 0:15:12.241 that the lawyers and the accountants of the client are 0:15:12.241 --> 0:15:15.161 well and truly involved so that we're doing the right thing. 0:15:15.241 --> 0:15:18.041 That's a fact finding exercise. We want to know what 0:15:18.161 --> 0:15:20.961 else is going on in their lives, and that's important 0:15:21.001 --> 0:15:23.201 if we're going to be an independent trustee. A lot 0:15:23.521 --> 0:15:27.361 of people that were independent trustees, such as accountants and 0:15:27.441 --> 0:15:30.721 lawyers have now hang up there hanging up the hat 0:15:30.761 --> 0:15:33.401 and that reguard because it is high risk. And since 0:15:33.481 --> 0:15:36.521 the Trust Act twenty nineteen have come in, I think 0:15:36.641 --> 0:15:39.881 a lot of professionals have decided that they will stick 0:15:39.921 --> 0:15:42.681 to their netting rather than just adding another service, and 0:15:42.761 --> 0:15:45.401 that they're not really onto all the time. 0:15:45.601 --> 0:15:48.001 So being an independent trustee is is it a bit 0:15:48.041 --> 0:15:51.241 like the the evolution of that role? Is it a 0:15:51.321 --> 0:15:56.201 little bit like say, company directors are now having to 0:15:56.241 --> 0:16:01.681 be very vigilant. Vigilant that's the word, and well trained 0:16:01.681 --> 0:16:03.921 and versed in what's going on with the law and 0:16:04.001 --> 0:16:08.681 companies because increasingly they're finding themselves in the firing line, 0:16:08.681 --> 0:16:11.921 whereas maybe fifty years ago you just took the honorarium 0:16:11.921 --> 0:16:12.401 and moved on. 0:16:13.881 --> 0:16:16.841 Yeah, so it used to be before the trust At 0:16:16.881 --> 0:16:19.401 twenty nineteen came in, we always had the common law 0:16:19.441 --> 0:16:23.161 and you always had to hit certain milestones. And in fact, 0:16:23.681 --> 0:16:25.641 I would go as far as to say that the 0:16:25.721 --> 0:16:28.201 trust at twenty nineteen has wound a lot of our 0:16:28.241 --> 0:16:32.121 common law into into piece of legislation now. But prior 0:16:32.161 --> 0:16:36.041 to that, lots lots of accountants and lawyers and friends 0:16:36.441 --> 0:16:38.801 would step forward and they would say, we'll be the 0:16:38.841 --> 0:16:41.561 independent trustee. And what that meant is that they weren't 0:16:41.561 --> 0:16:44.321 going to be a beneficiary of the trust. And that 0:16:44.481 --> 0:16:47.201 was as far as it went. They didn't actually do anything. 0:16:47.361 --> 0:16:50.241 They just said that they would be the independent trustee, 0:16:50.281 --> 0:16:51.601 the third trustee. 0:16:51.161 --> 0:16:54.161 All care but not realizing the responsibility possibly. 0:16:54.601 --> 0:16:58.161 And so as a result of the legislation coming through, 0:16:58.241 --> 0:17:01.721 which really does tighten things up, it enshrines the duties 0:17:01.761 --> 0:17:06.761 of trustees, it gives beneficiaries rights for clear rights. And 0:17:06.841 --> 0:17:09.681 as a consequence of that, a lot of advisors have 0:17:09.721 --> 0:17:11.721 got out of the business of being trustees because trust 0:17:11.841 --> 0:17:15.441 is a person liable. And then the other question that 0:17:15.481 --> 0:17:17.561 I was posed recently was, oh, well, you could just 0:17:17.601 --> 0:17:20.161 be a trustee in a company and therefore you limit 0:17:20.201 --> 0:17:23.721 your liability just like an ordinary director or shareholder and 0:17:23.761 --> 0:17:25.921 a company would. But that's not true if you're a 0:17:25.921 --> 0:17:29.441 trustee as a company like New Zealand Family Trust Service 0:17:29.521 --> 0:17:33.961 is limited. As a trustee, I now have to where 0:17:34.001 --> 0:17:36.921 the responsibilities of not only being a trustee but also 0:17:37.001 --> 0:17:39.681 being a director. So it's a double whammy. You've got 0:17:39.721 --> 0:17:40.281 to get it right. 0:17:40.641 --> 0:17:43.361 Yeah, actually, for the look, tell you what we will 0:17:43.361 --> 0:17:45.361 take quick break now if you've got any questions for 0:17:45.441 --> 0:17:49.041 Janet Janetzcoa. She is managing director of New Zealand Family 0:17:49.041 --> 0:17:52.561 Trust Services. If you think do I need a trust? 0:17:53.201 --> 0:17:54.961 You might even think it's a dumb question. And I 0:17:55.001 --> 0:17:58.121 think that when we're dealing with sort of specialized topics 0:17:58.161 --> 0:18:00.961 like this, there is no such thing as a dumb question, 0:18:01.601 --> 0:18:03.481 because a lot of the time people think, oh gosh, 0:18:03.481 --> 0:18:06.001 if only i'd ask that question and taken a simple step, 0:18:06.001 --> 0:18:08.161 maybe I wouldn't have had the misery a few years 0:18:08.161 --> 0:18:10.081 on of not having made the move on a trust. 0:18:10.601 --> 0:18:15.441 Oh sorry, I've just seen a text. Somebody's just us, 0:18:15.441 --> 0:18:19.121 should Prince Harry get a trust? I don't even know 0:18:19.161 --> 0:18:21.001 what that is, but for some reason it's funny. 0:18:21.721 --> 0:18:24.881 Look what a connosation behind us? 0:18:26.041 --> 0:18:29.041 Anyway, Look, hey, look, we love your cause. Eight hundred 0:18:29.041 --> 0:18:31.201 and eighty ten eighty We are getting a few texts 0:18:31.241 --> 0:18:32.801 or so. I know some people like to keep things 0:18:32.841 --> 0:18:34.601 private on this sort of thing, but you can give 0:18:34.641 --> 0:18:36.961 us a call and jump the queue. Janet Zuccoa here, 0:18:37.041 --> 0:18:38.721 she's ready to take your cause. If you've got any 0:18:38.801 --> 0:18:40.881 questions around trust. We'll be back in just a moment. 0:18:40.881 --> 0:18:43.001 It's come out to twenty five past five. News Talk 0:18:43.041 --> 0:18:45.601 said B. News Talk said B. Yes, my expert is 0:18:45.961 --> 0:18:49.041 Janet Zucca. She's a trust expert. She's the managing director 0:18:49.081 --> 0:18:52.521 of New Zealand Family Trust Services Limited, and we're taking 0:18:52.561 --> 0:18:55.801 your cause any questions you've got. No question is to 0:18:57.481 --> 0:18:59.681 is to be feared, because I think that's a very 0:18:59.681 --> 0:19:03.881 complex subject sometimes, so just ask away. Phil good A, 0:19:04.081 --> 0:19:05.401 Oh sorry, Sandy good Day. 0:19:07.041 --> 0:19:07.201 Hi. 0:19:08.281 --> 0:19:11.561 So I'm keen to set up a trust, but I 0:19:11.601 --> 0:19:13.681 haven't because I kind of keep thinking, you know, like 0:19:14.241 --> 0:19:17.001 that they are a bit more see through these days 0:19:17.161 --> 0:19:20.041 and all around the intentions and things. So what I 0:19:20.041 --> 0:19:22.721 don't understand is, as you said in the furniture example, 0:19:22.801 --> 0:19:24.801 they've gone to set up a furniture business, so they 0:19:24.841 --> 0:19:27.601 want to put their house in the trust. Clearly their 0:19:27.601 --> 0:19:32.121 intention is to protect their house. That's what I don't get, Like, 0:19:32.161 --> 0:19:34.561 I mean, what am I meant to tell the lawyer 0:19:34.561 --> 0:19:36.681 when they're setting up the trust, like that is totally 0:19:36.681 --> 0:19:41.001 my intention is to protect my house. And so therefore 0:19:41.001 --> 0:19:43.281 you're saying that you're writing down the intentions and all 0:19:43.281 --> 0:19:45.921 that sort of stuff. But like so then if anything 0:19:46.161 --> 0:19:48.161 was to happen and you go back and you look 0:19:48.201 --> 0:19:50.961 at the intention, I'm like, well that was the intention? 0:19:51.801 --> 0:19:55.001 Oh a little bit of a time in the market. 0:19:55.321 --> 0:19:57.601 Or so are you asking in a way that do 0:19:57.641 --> 0:19:59.521 you have to be guarded with the instructions you give 0:19:59.561 --> 0:20:01.641 to your trustee because of that might form part of 0:20:01.681 --> 0:20:04.881 the record. Janet, what's your response to standing, well. 0:20:05.081 --> 0:20:07.681 Are legitimate saying turn it up your trust to particut 0:20:07.721 --> 0:20:08.121 your house? 0:20:09.161 --> 0:20:11.241 I'm confused, now, good questions. 0:20:12.121 --> 0:20:14.601 It is indeed legitimate. What we do is we take 0:20:14.681 --> 0:20:17.401 lots of notes around what clients tell us, so that 0:20:17.481 --> 0:20:20.441 if we ever end up in a situation where the 0:20:20.441 --> 0:20:24.241 trust is being challenged, we can point to our meetings 0:20:24.241 --> 0:20:26.041 with our clients and what they've actually said. 0:20:27.401 --> 0:20:30.841